After Hagee Apology to Catholics, McCain Still Silent on Armageddon Views
By Jon Perr Tuesday May 13, 2008 4:00pm
( John Amato: I want to welcome Jon Perr to the pages of C&L. He does excellent work and will add another fine voice to the site.)
Facing increasing scrutiny over his statements describing the Catholic Church as "the great whore" and a "false cult system," Texas pastor and John McCain endorser John Hagee today issued a letter of apology to his "Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ." But while Hagee's chosen candidate previously distanced himself from the minister's slurs towards Catholics and residents of New Orleans, on the topic that may matter most, Mr. Straight Talk has remained silent. Does John McCain agree with Pastor John Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of Armageddon?
Back on March 9th, McCain offered a conditional apology for Hagee's slanders "if they are anti-Catholic or offensive to Catholics." Today, Hagee himself tried to help dig McCain out of the hole he created among America's 80,000,000 Catholics. As the Wall Street Journal reported, Hagee sought to make amends:
"Out of a desire to advance greater unity among Catholics and Evangelicals in promoting the common good, I want to express my deep regret for any comments that Catholics have found hurtful," Hagee wrote, according to an advanced copy of the letter reviewed by Washington Wire. In the letter, addressed to Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League and one of Hagee's biggest critics, Hagee pledges "a greater level of compassion and respect for my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ."
But while McCain "categorically" repudiated Hagee's anti-Catholic bigotry and labeled as "nonsense" Hagee's assertions that Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans as divine retribution for the city's "painful sin" of a "homosexual rally," the Arizona Senator has yet to reject Hagee's End of Days vision for war with Iran.
On February 27, 2008, Senator McCain shared a stage with the End Times minister and declared, "I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support." As it turns out, John McCain not only actively sought Hagee's endorsement. In 2007, McCain addressed Hagee's organization, Christians United for Israel (CUFI), which just happens to believe the final biblical battle against the Anti-Christ will be fought by the United States - against Iran. During the annual CUFI conference in July 2006, John Hagee bluntly described his vision of Armageddon as foreign policy this way:
"The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West...a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ."
On January 29, 2007, Hagee emailed a "Newflash" to CUFI members about a meeting he held that day with McCain. While noting that he did not "want to put the specifics of our conversation in this update" because "I don't want to read it in the media tomorrow," Hagee crowed about the future Republican presidential nominee:
"Senator McCain's comments concerning Israel are on target! He gets it!"
But what exactly is that McCain "gets?" During an April 2, 2006 interview by Tim Russert on Meet the Press, McCain gave a hint. Discussing Tehran's nuclear program and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's inflammatory rhetoric towards Israel, John McCain sounded as much preacher as president:
MR. RUSSERT: So we could have two wars at once?
SEN. McCAIN: I think we could have Armageddon. But I think that, that if we handle this right, and our European allies stand with us, and the Russians and the Chinese stand with us, sanctions might do the job. And I am confident that this administration will exhaust every effort before contemplating seriously a military option.
Russert, of course, did not follow up to clarify with McCain what he meant when he said "we could have Armageddon." Was he literally speaking of the final conflagration involving the mass conversion and killing of the Jews described in the Bible? Does John McCain believe, as Pastor Hagee clearly does, that American foreign and national security policy should be governed by the Book of Revelation?
During an April 2007 campaign event, John McCain joked about confrontation with Tehran, singing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran." But as tensions with Iran continue to rise, the end-times views of McCain supporter Hagee are no laughing matter. So 76 days after they shared that stage in San Antonio, the McCain-Hagee Armageddon watch continues. When will the American media ask John McCain the question he must answer: does John McCain agree with Pastor John Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?
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i love it.....this is one of the bigger achilles heels that mccain has adopted in his selling out pandering campaign.
it won't even be close......Obama's win will make Reagan's look pathetic.
If Hagee's right about New Orleans, there must be a lot of homosexuals in the country formerly known as Burma.
Welcome Jon!
VietVet8666 @ 2:
They're being punished for a different reason - military dictatorships aren't supposed to install themselves, that's our job!
McCain is the "great whore" to all the lobbyists and Christian conservatives.
And... I'd like to apologize if that may have offended Mr. McCain.
This should show up Hillary's misdirection, trying to make us think it's Obama who is seeking out messed-up religious wingnuts....
Blue Lensman @ 4:
that and they haven't accepted jesus christ as their personal lord and savior. and they're not white.
Is there anything more frightening than the McCrazies in power?
Jeebus, we had clueless BushCo for almost eight fucking years. Could our country (or the world) survive a McBomb Bomb Bomb Iran presidency?
Many in the Bush Administration were charged with war crimes...is this what McCain wants, too? I do not get it.
I am reaching the point where they should try the spinless Congress, too. I want my country back and I do not see the path right now.
Does anyone really see BushCo leaving power on their own? With all the signing statements, house directives and executive orders in place, a coup is ripe for the taking.
Hagee and his spicy friend Parsley are the least of our worries. Bunch of fucknits one and all.
Biological existence is incompatible with true happiness. How can you be in heaven with god when you are encumbered by flesh? Impossible. Flesh is evil, corrupt. It tends toward undignified animal-like lusts, naughtiness.
Death is good, life is bad.
Don't forget McCain's other political ally, Rod Parsley, who claims that the U.S. was founded to destroy Islam. McCain needs to reassure Americans that he differs with his political bedfellows on the need for a New Crusade and the desirability of Armageddon in the Middle East. He may also want to clarify whether he believes, as his close political ally John Hagee does, that non-repentant Jews will be condemned to Hell.
In other news that can only bolster McCains campaign, Pastor Hagee apologized for characterizing the Catholic Church as the "great whore". William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Civil and Religious Rights, and a fierce critic of Hagee, quickly accepted the apology.
Expanding on his apology, Hagee said it was over the top criticism when, in fact, the Catholic Church was really "just a little slutty."
CNN: Edwards endorses Obama.
McCain's new campaign song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qhWf8v15AU
morning @ 12:
HALLELUJAH!
As I understand it, McBush is in favor of Armageddon.
oakling @ 6:
Not a record but coming in on position 6 with a totally unrelated and inappropriate cheap shot at Clinton is pretty fast for the anti-Clinton brigade. If you want to be first you're going to have to fine tune your obsession. You've got a lot of competition.
Go Obama/Edward 08!
Ok, here's something that alwats bothers me. Have you ever noticed how no one really apologizes anymore. They say something like "I am sorry if people were offended by what I said," but never "I am sorry for what I said."
Hagee's non-apology should be called for what it is. He doesn't feel a need to apologize; he believes what he has said about the Catholic Church and to give a pass on it just because it sounds good, is the kind of thing that gets the dems nowhere with regard to beating McCain't.
Blue Lensman @ 14:
and AMEN!
Doesn't Hagee look like Jabba the Hut?
Were is Luke when you need him?
bigmike601 @ 20:
I much prefer Lone Star and Pizza the Hut.
conservatoire @ 18:
As it turns out, here are a couple of pieces on this very point:
- "Pastor Hagee and the Unpology of John McCain."
- "The Unpology: How Republicans Never Say They're Sorry."
who loves yah baby ? go clinton 08!
tHeHusseinGaMeOfLiFe @ 17:
That would probably work but I believe Edwards has expressed disinterest in running for V.P. again. He may be persuaded.
Hagee did not apologize to Catholics, he apologized to Bill Donahue. The only place where he represents the Catholic Church is the Easter episode of South Park.
hagee is a jew hater of the worst caliber, because he shows faux love to jews based on his belief that to do so will bring the end times, and jews will either convert or die
but its ok to hate jews, gays and anyone else non christian, as long as you love catholics
oh, also if you are white, speak softly and dont piss off the wingnuts on the radio
Doesn't anybody know that Armageddon already happened? The Har-Megeddo pass at the Eastern end of Mount Carmel saw events remarkably like those foreseen in Revelations in September, 1918. Therefore, going to war with anybody could not "bring about" Armageddon.
And even so, why does anyone think that Israel wants to see a ground battle on the scale that Bible literalists enthuse about in it's territory?
fiddlerbird @ 27:
It's OK for him to apologize to Catholics because he and his followers know that Catholics will be "left behind" with the rest of us while they get raptured up. The apology means nothing.
Blue Lensman @ 28:
in the 80's, according to these nutjob biblical 'scholars', it was the coming Soviet Union invasion of Israel that would bring about armageddon. then, wasn't it going to be Saddam Hussein's invasion of Israel? now it's our coming war with Iran? i just can't keep up with biblical prophesy and the current state of interpretation. is there a website that offers regular updates?
mcain't doesn't need to say anything. He should, but he doesn't need to say anything. just ask the reporters riding the
straightshit-talk express.Not only that but the guy really does not apologize - its the classic .
Well its fact, the guy is wrong - is crazy - and should apologize for being a slob.
I am such a realist, atheist, and skeptic that I am continually stunned when I read that ANYONE cares what ANY member of the clergy has to say about ANYTHING. I am amazed that here, in the 21st century, there is anyone left who "believes" much less cares what some priest, mullah or preacher says. When our candidates for public office have to declare their pious religious beliefs, it sickens me. In Europe, they would be pariahs for spouting any religious stuff when running for office.
Every time I walk or drive out to enjoy my Sunday I see the sheeple going to steeple and again have to remind myself, "oh, yeah, some folks still go to church. How quaint."<---elitist? Maybe..atheist/...definitely.
samdog @ 34:
Yeah, enjoy it while it lasts. This lessening of religious power is directly related to the prosperity of present-day civilization. One of my worst fears is that the secular governments won't wake up to the world being pulled out from under it, and we religious types will resume the helm and return to mass slaughter of each other and non-religious.
This saving of the world is not something we religious need to put our two cents in. Hagee is a good explanation of why. He wants his perversion of God to take care of things in his lifetime, and why should he bother with taking care of stuff? Meanwhile, those of us who are sane religious hope that his types don't try to create Gilead an burn us along with you. As Christians, we need to butt out of this thing called politics and let the people who can be pragmatic and realistic in international affairs run it.
For a head of state, atheism is a superior philosophy.
Great, this fat toad apologized to Catholics. Now, can he apologize to gays and pagans and the city of New Orleans for his comments about Hurricane Katrina?
Has anyone ever asked, and got it on tape, a major candidate whether he as a christian agrees with his faith’s most important dogma, that all non-christians spend eternity in hell?
Jerry @ 37:
No, they haven't. Usually because it's rather obvious what Christian candidates think about such things. And also because if, say, a Catholic says Southern Baptists and Neo-Montanists are going to Hell, all Hell (no pun intended) will break loose.
Has anyone here read Tom Robbin's "Skinny Legs and All"? In it a fictional VA pastor plots to blow up the "Dome of the Rock" in order to bring on Armageddon. Meanwhile a sexy teen Solome dances the dance of the Seven Veils for the enlightenment of patrons of a bar run by a Jew and an Arab across the street from the UN... though slow at times, it's hilarious and enlightening fiction from a guy always ahead of the curve (written maybe 20 years ago?), and spot on when it comes to the contempt we should have for these divisive pastors.
38 General_Rennenkampf
I'm not sure what you're referring to as Neo-Montantists. According to my notes Montanism was a Late 2nd Century heresy, the third of the Great 13, founded by Montanus. His belief in the continuance of oraclous gifts such as glossalalia, and prophecy could be compared to the moder charismatic movement. But he also taught of Christ's imminent return at Phrygia, and himself as the Paraclete.
I love the name Phrygia; it's so Flash Gordon like the icey region of Mongo called Frigia.
I liken modern Christians as being more Pelaganism, founded in the 5th century Pelagius. He taught that every one was born neutral (tabula rosa), and could achieve heaven under our own power, but Christianity makes a difficult task easier. It's a more inclusive, multicultural approach.
Sorry s/b spelled Pelagianism, of the 5th century.
Not fond of the headline as it lumps all Catholics together like we are one beast. Just as offensive to me to be associated to Donahue as what Hagee says. Hagee is still a idiot, and so is Donahue.
Jon Perr..... Jon Perr...... where have I heard that name before? Articles published in magazines maybe? Anyway great post!!
This is not a real apology though the mainstream media is framing it that way. Read Hagee's letter carefully. He admits to nothing wrong and never even uses the word apology. It's goal is to keep Catholics useful for right-wing religion's political initiatives and, of course, get this episode behind McCain. The media's McCain love is framing this that way and I don't actually see McCain even admitting that Hagee said anything bad. It's all "if he did." Well-crafted spins.
ysbaddaden @ 40:
I'm referring to the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement. Those movements tend to deify their leaders like the Montanists did Montanus, and certainly types like Hagee who have a deep connection with that movement preach the imminent coming of Yahweh. Modern Christians, these days, are one of three types: the brutal authoritarian burn-the-heathen types, the mystical/traditionalist types who are so focused on doctrine and its infinite permutations as not to bother with the brutality or the softness (my type, incidentally) and the soft Christians that are cowards when it comes to recognizing heresy and speaking out on it.
John Hagee is the brutal authoritarian type.
This guy is about as Christian as the Spanish Inquistion.
What a turd. And dumb too.
"We need to join Israel to attack Iran so we can bring about Armageddon, yuck yuck y'all."
Fucking Boss Hog cracker evangelical moron. Too bad he didn't live in Europe 500 years ago. The Vatican would have burned his ass at the stake.
God I hate the South and their stupid-ass religion.
45 General_Rennenkampf
That makes sense because that certainly happened to Montanus. Besides calling himself the Paraclete he also taught that his teachings outweighed Rome's.
Apparently many of our problems today come from the authoritarian teachings of the Paulists (both Roman Catholic and Protestants) folks like the neo-Montanists who deify their own minister, and the more accepting and tolerant Pelagians.
Pairocletus?
http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/cletus/03.jpg
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0603/060203cletus.jpg
40 ysbaddaden
Should've said miraculous gifts, but I'm drinking again.
ysbaddaden @ 47:
Yeah, pretty much. The Authoritarians and the Neo-Montanists haven't recovered from the Enlightenment, and are a reaction to it. As for the soft types/Pelagians, they aid and abet the authoritarians and Neo-Montanists, which makes the job of us traditionalist mystics who see the heresy in Pauline authoritarianism and Neo-Montanism and want to restore Christendom to its traditions (their good aspects, not the witch-burnings, heresy trials, and pogroms) a bit harder.
I just wish John Hagee and the other authoritarians of both Pauline and Neo-Montanist stripes would go away. I hate calling myself Christian because it links me with those types.
First, that was not an apology. Second, I hardly think that a man so hardline rightwing authoritarian would do a 180 and believe that Catholics are now ok by him. Third, did Pope Benedict die and the College of Cardinals elect Donahue to head the Catholic Church? Hagee did not apologize to Catholics. We are not represented by Donahue. He holds no office in the Church and does not represent us in any official capacity. But a pretty slick move by a very oily preacher. This Catholic wants an apology from McCain and Hagee. Where are the learned Jesuits when you need them? Oh, yeah John Paul II silenced them.
These people actively seek the "End Times," inflicting the rest of the 6.6 BILLION people on the planet with their hateful and superstitious belief system. John McCain--the first genuine wingnut presidential candidate in history. Could somebody in the Democratic Party please take note?
Angelina's right, it's no apology. Does anyone doubt that he believes that everything he said is true? His "apology" is like many of those I get from my son. He's not sorry that he did it, he's sorry that he got caught.
Why doesn't anyone in the MSM ask McCain whether he agrees with Hagee secretly like they do with Obama and Wright? I mean I think he secretly does agree with him. Why won't he denounce Hagee? McCain's people are fond of saying that McCain was just endorsed by this guy, and they even refer to him as "some guy", then I think its fair to ask, how is it that Obama denounces his pastor of 20 years and the media is still making it seem as though he has the same views as his pastor while McCain won't denounce "some guy" and yet nobody even questions whether or not McCain agrees with this "random guy." WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD?
Does McCain agree with him or not? Obviously, since McCain won't denounce the man then he must secretly agree with him. He must actually believe that the Catholic church is a great whore, American sin caused hurricane katrina and that war with Iran would be a good thing. If he did not believe these things he would throw this A-hole under the bus.
I was wondering when someone was going to get around to this part of Hagee's views...
Thinking about the number of times a certain U.S. presidential candidate has had to answer questions about a preacher he has a tenuous (at best) connection with, it occurs to me that another U.S. presidential canditate should probably answer a question or two about a preacher he is, quote:
"[...]pleased to have the endorsement of."
Is he pleased to have the support of a man who believes that the only peace that can happen in the Middle East is going to be caused by the Antichrist?
"Israel will unite and peace will prevail when the country accepts the false man of peace who steps out onto the world's stage."
Or who's thelogy is still a little shaky, despite is chosen vocation:
"Do not be confused into thinking that Allah is just another name for the same God."
One that believes that the World Trade Centre attacks because of immigration?
"It happened because the United States has an open door policy."
Or a man who's last book, Jerusalem Countdown, is various permutations of the "Nuke Iran Now!" theme repeated for 255 pages?
Or who thought the 2000 election was a chance for the European Union to present an Antichrist of their own, dscussung the chance of political confusion in America would give the opportunity for a "charismatic and strong leader" to take over the world?
Granted Hagee isn't a Dominionist, trying to turn the United States into a new Eden which follows God's Laws alone, but his ideas for international policy can only be called nightmarish at best:
The favorite passages of Pastor Hagee's is Ezekiel 38-39, involving the antichrist's army attacking Israel. What is hoped for is that life will get worse and worse, with war and strife a constant event, and then (of course) the Tribulation and Rapture.
In God's plan (according to Hagee), when America invades Iran, that country will form an alliance with Russia, who will then attack Israel for no immediately aparent reason. God says "Nuh-uh" and the Russian army is toast in the biggest anti-climax since Fred Thompson was Ronald Reagan.
America itself will be either utterly destroyed (or simply reduced to an afterthought) in this great plan - and I'm thinking that this just might be considered, well, a touch antipartiotic.
Surely, someone in the media would notice if a presidential candidate was consorting with a supposed "man of God" was interested in the destruction of the United States. Unless...
49 General_Rennenkampf
Although neo-Pelagians may be merely abetters by non-action, some may be the more ecumenical sort.
angelina @ 50:
Didn't you see the Easter episode of South Park? That's where Donahue took over the Catholic Church. (same episode where they made the connection between the Easter Bunny and the Apostles - "Peter Rabbit"
oh, it's the Catholics' fault if they found their church being called a "whore" offensive. I do love these non-apologies by ignorant people. What they mean is "I'm sorry you were offended. However, I never will say I was the wrong, stupid, willfully ignorant asshole that I have always been and will be."
soo I think that
thanks .
Great, this fat toad apologized to Catholics. Now
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