Tim Russert: Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?!
Back in 1963, Barry Goldwater and John F. Kennedy were seriously mulling the idea of chartering a campaign plane and traveling around the country together, debating actual issues and letting the electorate decide who would be the better candidate based on actual policy differences. Tonight on MSNBC, in light of the news that McCain and Obama would perhaps be open to holding moderator-free town-hall debates, Tim Russert wonders whether an election based not on petty, manufactured "character gaps," but on actual substantive differences is possible. Can you even begin to imagine that level of civility in today's political culture?
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"The tone of the campaign is going to be very interesting to me. Both men have said publicly that they really want to elevate the discussion. This discussion back and forth about having joint town meetings throughout the summer brought me back to 1963 when John Kennedy and Barry Goldwater had all but agreed to fly around the country in the same plane, have town meetings - robust differences - and then shake hands, go back on the plane and go to the next city. I always wondered aloud, 'would that ever be possible in 2008?' And McCain and Obama seem to be suggesting it may be do-able. And if they both hold true to try close down these 527s, these so-called independent groups, could we have a real debate about Iraq, and about health care, and about taxes where people take pride in their position, and openly acknowledge it's different than the other candidates, and then say to the voters, 'you decide which one of us should be Preisdent.' That would be pretty interesting to cover."
Indeed, it would, Tim. Indeed, it would.
Great point, Tim. Let's start with YOU.
It would be a refreshing change but given the desperation on the right; not so likely
mindblowing
Hey Tim! How much time have you wasted on peripherals such as Rev. Wright, is he black enough, etc?
These guys blow in the wind of their own hot air!
Don't hold your breath folks....we are in for five more months of the same old regurgitated garbage
What bother discussing actual issues when the reich-wing MSM is too busy discussing former pastors, bowling scores, and flag pins.
katie @ 1:
now that he's called for it, he can ignore any application of it to the "work" that he does.
I bet he has no clue what to do with Olberman.
Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?
Yes, every time I listen to Obama speak. :)
Now, if only some of his supporters would start playing 'follow the leader' instead of repeating the same mistakes they made in 2004.
Good point, T¡mmeh. But what will we do with the screaming old man, who keeps interrupting everyone, to bitch about his school taxes? Yeah, I'm talking about McCain. Seriously, there's always that one guy at Town Hall meetings, and then everything turns to shit.
"That would be pretty interesting to cover.”
hey timmy, what has stopped you from covering it in the past. maybe if you took the high road and called out the liers (like the swiftboaters) you in fact could have helped bring this to america. my isnt that a nobel cause for a man with your media power.
so timmy heres a tip, when a group puts up an add that is based on total fabrication and obvious lies, do some journalistic research. why not even have a staff of people that do it for you, and make an issue out of it. might be better than, oh say, repeatedly showing the ad on your programs (free publicity for the lies) and using that as the talking point of your "reporting". a better man might show the ad one time, refuse to show it again and then call out the people behind the ad to show proof. you might even find that the time is ripe for a ratings boost if you took this approach. after all, your biz has become ratings driven. right?
Dear Tim:
Your desire for a real discussion of issues should prompt you to meetings at your network where NBC decides to
1. refrain from any mention of the Rev. Wright.
2. refrain from any mention of lapel pins.
3. refrain from any mention of the Reverend Hagee.
4. refrain from reporting any "swift-boating" assertions by either campaign without a thorough investigation of those assertions.
5. keep the candidates on issues when interviewing them, rather than spending hours manufacturing "gotcha" questions.
After you have pledged to do all of the above, come back and speak to us again about elevating the level of discussion. Clean your own house.
monty @ 5:
Fuck you Russert! Maybe if you and your sorry ass MSM comrades would only talk about the real issues YOUR complaint would be solved.
willie @ 10:
Couldn't have said it any better.
no way republicans let that happen. if you were a republican would you?
peaceful easy feeling @ 8:
If you're talking about Carville and the DLC, look for them to sabotage the Democratic efforts. These are the same closeted repugs who told Gore and Kerry to throw in the towel. CNN has installed a few of them on the "discussion panels".
Haulin' Oates @ 15:
that is a fair question for timmeh and chrissie, eh?
Yes, great idea! I think it could work.
I'm going to dance through fairyland, ride my gum-drop boat to strawberry falls, and see if I can get the unicorns on board. We could do it!
Where was Russert during the 2000 and 2004 elections? Was he covering the ISSUES, asking the candidates about their PLATFORMS? Heck no, he was giving more airtime to blowhards like the Swiftboaters and those critical of Gore. Well, Al certainly had the last laugh with his indisputably deserved Oscar, Grammy and Nobel prizes. And what does Timmeh have? Any Peabody awards in there for all the noble journalistic work serving the American public and their right to know, instead of giving airtime to smoke and mirrors?
I don't know, but I think not.
Left&Left @ 13:
I was watching last night when he said this and that was exactly my reaction. Out of nowhere I just yelled, "fuck you, Russert!". A look of deep concern came over my wife's face.
Obama and McCain don't have to travel and debate together for Tim Russert to do his job better.
Sorry to bring up Ron Paul, but he was one of the few candidates who tried to really explain the issues based on policy rather than the same talking points. When he was allowed to ask any candidate any question, he decided to ask McCain a question on the economy. As you can imagine, McCain deflected this question by saying that he "knows people" who know economics and his response was complete.
So I guess that I'm curious how this "town hall" format will work out for the candidates. Will McCain still avoid having a real debate without using catch phrases and the same bland rhetoric that we've heard in every other debate? Will the voting public realize that he has uninformed, twisted, capricious opinions on every issue (especially the ones that he should be informed about)? Finally, will they even care?
AND another thing....some 'journalists' are starting to see some light at the end of the bush and are suddenly growing a conscience. DO NOT let them off so easily. Jackasses like timmy did NOTHING when blatant lies were being passed around as fact so we could go kill a bunch of innocent people.
Get Real NBC will not let that happen! NBC will call all the white voters racist if they don't vote for the black man! Get real the day THE MESSIAH LOST in NH they cried racism on the white people in NH followed by calling the Clinton's racist to prop up their empty suit Messiah in SC. Never a word about his race baiting Hoodwink Bamboozle speeches in SC or GA. Yet today still calling white people in KY racist for not voting for the inexperienced no record to stand on fraud. PLEASE Obama has no record on issues! OH I forgot he was a community organizer! A community that had 40 shooting in a week last month. 13 kids dead in the community he organized. THAT RECORD he spews out every day.
Has anybody noticed the subtle shift of the talking heads in corporate media land?
It's as if they smell a Dem majority, and they're sensing that their propaganda for the last 7.5 years isn't going to be tolerated or be in vogue much longer...time to appear "fair".
Russert can go straight to hell. I've seen his brand of "gotchas" posing as news, and he's just another corporate media turd.
.
Can you imagine if Timmeh actually discussed real issues...?
.
Bumping up Kathy in St. Louis cuz I was gonna say the same thing. Plus I'd like to add that I doubt it's NBC telling Timmay what to ask. I'm sure a lot of those questions he thought up all by his own damn self.
Kathy in St. louis @ 11:
I don't think Little Timmy could handle a discussion of the issues.
...I don't know...I am kind of looking forward to what the 527s are gonna do to McSame. The guy (and his wife) have so many skeletons in the closet that are not "substantive campaign issues" and that would be the only way to expose those issues.
"I got your swiftboat right HERE you snake oil salesman!"
oh yeah....and screw Russert!
I could imagine it...
IF FRACKING ADULTS WERE IN CHARGE!
Nice idea, but somehow I doubt it'll happen. If Obama and McCain were to run against each other on just the issues, McCain would be destroyed in a Goldwater-style landslide defeat. The GOP has no choice but to go to petty character smears. It's all they have.
My first thought was "Gee, if corporate media wanted that, we'd already have it!" Problem is, it doesn't "sell" as well as good, old-fashioned, down-in-the-dirt mud-slinging and smearing.
Still, it's a nice thought.
gf120581 @ 31:
Truly!
McSame could never survive this format, not against Obama.
However, this may be his only hope because everyone KNOWS Republicans would run like hell from such a debate, so if McSame agrees, he may actually pick up some brownie points regardless of how awful Obama makes him look.
Having said that however, I just done see McSame's military dictatorship supporting advisers/lobbyists allowing him to go thru with this.
jollytyrant @ 18:
WIN: Best post of the day.
Tim Russert can go fuck himself, acting like he is not a HUGE part of the very problem he pretends to give a shit about.
I'm so sick of these propagandapundits.
Dave @ 35:
that gets my vote!
Obama versus McCain made for TV debates?
Worthless, everything is to scripted and produced and controlled.
Everything would be tailored to be PC and at the end they shake hands and smile and wave all that crap.
Wow! Would the word for this be chutzpah? Or is it that Russert doesn't pay all that much attention to his own bullshit, and has no idea what he's saying from week to week. Either way this kind of phony concern is laughable, in a pathetic sort of way.
Take a look in the freakin mirror, Timmy!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200804200001
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/tim-russert-belongs-on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJkU1e-_r3w
All Obama would have to do is let McCain keep talking and when it came time to debate, use everything he says against him.
From your tiny, tiny mouth to god's ears, timmeh. Except you yourself will have to stop being an enormous part of the problem.
Can you imagine an election in which the electorate are allowed to hear the views of not simply one, but many, third party candidates? But since the networks conspired with the Democrats and the Republicans to make sure that Ralph Nader was not going to be seen and heard at the debates during the summer of 2000 [the big corporations wanted to make sure that their views were not challenged], that would seem to be only wishful thinking.
As for Timmy's idea of closing down the 527's, I guess he wants voters to leave the Swiftboating to the professionals like him.
ricksramblings @ 24:
Wow. Everything in your ridiculous diatribe is angry and incorrect. Do you get talking points from Marge?
Too bad Russert and his fellow propagandists have done everything in their power and the considerable power of the corporations that employ them to make damn sure that an election conducted by an electorate that is fully informed of the issues never happens.
Somebody ought to Ninja dick slap that shithead into the middle of next month.
unfathomable, isn't it, Tim? could any election really be left up to We The People?
The Republicans would never allow it and if they did, the Democrats would find some way to blow it!
katie @ 1:
My thoughts exactly. Since that won't happen...
Have y'all seen the last nadir event?
Dozens of people showed up.
Forget the debates. I understand the issues. Let's just vote now.
lewisnclark @ 43:
And YOU are my vote for the best reply of the day.
lewisnclark @ 43:
exactamundo!
Wow, Timmy - what a revolutionary idea (rolls eyes)
ricksramblings @ 24:
Have you skipped your meds today? Shouldn't do that.
Erroll @ 42:
actually, I think for once, the Democrats, Republicans, the networks and the country as a whole found common ground--we don't want Ralph Nader in another presidential election. maybe if he devoted some serious time and effort toward party-building between elections, we'd think of him as more than an self-serving, egotistical distraction. but until then....
This is Tim Russert we're talking about, right? The same Tim Russert, talking head from the "All Day, All Night, All Wright" network, who seemed to think it was very important and necessary to ask Dennis Kucinich about UFO's during one of the very few moments during the debate that he gave Kucinich any attention at all.
It's hilarious that "issues" makes the news!
Just recall the last time Obama was on Meet the Press and Timmuh spent the first fifteen minutes of the show asking Obama about Rev Wright.
I rest my case.
If this tub of shit had began his statement by admitting culpability, I could at least listen to him. Just like Matthews, Huffington, etc. revisionist Timmy has failed to be a leader in the media when we needed him most. Now he wants to follow us. Worthless.
Seems to believe the media has no roll in what get covered. Tool.
But how will they cover it when they can't cover the Democrat primaries and McCain at the same time?
we could have actual fact and issue based debates, but
the f#cking media is so owned by reichwingneocon ruppert m.
that they are afraid to let mcno-IQ talk. so the media
will continue their disenfranchisement of the American public.
it's like the sex ads on tv...
there are no condom or safe sex ads......but
there are tons of ads for sexual stimulants and lubricants.
The American People want to know: Where is Timmeh's flag pin?!
I find Russert's suppositions amusing since he and his pundit ilk are one of the largest motivators of elections on "character issues". Tim's interviews have been remarkably fact-free, based on supposition and innuendo. Kettle Tim!
Blue Lensman @ 20:
Yeah I had the same reaction, scared the hell out of dog and the wife......I don't think I can take five more months of this "Shite"...................
think about it @ 54:
"... 'We' don't want Ralph Nader in another presidential election." How presumptuous and arrogant of you to tell the American people who they should or should not vote for. Your thinking is right out of Orwell's Animal Farm-two legs good, four legs bad. In this case, what you are saying is that Americans have the right to vote for any candidate, as long as that candidate is either a Democrat or a Republican. So much for democracy being alive and well in the land of the free.
These people don't even listen to their own air-checks! They look at their hair, whether they spit, check the lighting... then congratulate themselves for being so smart!
Barry and Jack are two people that could have discussed issues. I remember hearing them do so when I was young.
but John and Obama discussing issues? McSame is never going to actually do such a thing, only talk about it. He can't survive facts and reality that long to risk his entire political career. To take real questions from humans that aren't being paid to ask them? hahahahahahahahahah
Can you imagine a world in which Tim Russert would his considerable Meet The Press platform to converse not with political strategists but policy experts, to address not flag pins and pastors and pantsuits and cleavage and haircuts and UFOs but what would be best for the United States of America?
I can't. Maybe his successor will be a patriotic journalist.
Tim Russert -- another stake in heart of the theory of evolution.
ysbaddaden @ 48:
What you neglected to mention is that Nader [not nadir] is polling 10 per cent in Michigan and that is with almost no media exposure. He is also drawing 4 or 5 per cent in about half a dozen other states. Perhaps the thinking is that it is dangerous for Americans to be exposed to a candidate who is for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from that abattoir in Iraq, for changing U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, and for advocating for universal single payer health care in this country, which all of the three major candidates are against.
Apparently the last thing that the Democrats and the Republicans and the networks desire is for the American people to be subjected in a public forum to such radical and extreme ideas.
Tim Russert: Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?!
IF (big IF) that was ever possible....which it could be in 3 generations from now, when con-servatism is reviled as it should be today...
The Republicans would NEVER, EVER win an election....
The GOP platform encapsulated:
Hey vote for us...we want to run for government, you know...the thing that 'doesn't work'....come on, vote for us we'll show you it doesn't work!
A genuine 'issues-based' election campaign? With real citizens asking real questions in real time? With unfiltered, unspun answers from the candidates? With no pre-framed agenda from lobbyists and the media?
Nope, it'll never happen. The Media-Political-Industrial-Military Complex would never allow it.
Timmeh is clearly not watching the general shape up with any particular attention to detail. For one, McCain and Obama literally hate each other and have been involved in more direct on the floor arguments in the last two years than any two Senators I know of. Not only that, but McCain's primary thrust in the general election strategy is to point out Obama's "inexperience," which is precisely what McCain has bitched about on the Senate floor in the past. Thus, he's making his public case a very, very personal attack.
That explains why Obama has been so much more aggressive with the "appeaser" dust up than he has been in the entire Democratic primary process. Trust me, these two are going to go at it hard and heavy and personal this summer. There will be no Russert Fantasy Land airplane rides for these two.
ThunderMonkey @ 60:
Good point! When asked why Rev. Wright and not Rev. Hagee, Timmy said, "All in good time!"
For reference, we cannot discuss war during the crisis exploited by warmongers. We cannot discuss war while troops are in the field. We cannot discuss war after the fact. "That's old news. Everybody knows what happened. Let's move on." Russert and friends have a flawless record of applying this "journalism" technique to 9/11, Katrina, the Plame outing, the US Attorney firings, the Swift Boat attacks, domestic spying... Not during allegations, not while there's an ongoing investigation, not now that it's old news.
This is one of the biggest crocks of sh** I've ever heard from a MSM figure. Russert is the problem. He exemplfies it. Granted, the media rarely takes ownership for its faults, but I think Russert actually believes what he's saying - as did Matthews on Jon Stewart. Jeeez.
I don't believe Tim would like that at all. After all, what would he talk about on his show?
I can see something like that happening way before Timmeh and the rest of his ilk start to do their jobs...
What Russert glosses over is the reason why past so-called "debates" have not centered on the real issues. It's because the MSM (members of whom who formulate the questions being asked) have not asked the questions that need to be asked or have deliberately not followed up when a politician avoids actually answering the actual question asked. Why does the MSM contantly let politicians get away with this nonsense?
Dear Mr. Russert (aka - re-PIG-lic tool)
I know that if you have anything to do with it - the election WILL NOT be about the real issues. But thanks for pretending.
Sincerely yours,
*
The media conglomerates (including newspapers, etc) need to be broken up, and even stricter then they were before Bu$h broke the laws. No one should own more then 1 news station period. A Democracy demands unbiased information from all sources. Without that, you have what we have now. Timmah, couldn't handle the truth. His head would asplode!
mroom @ 76:
Big Russ, Rev. Wright, McCain's "maverickyness".
i wish they had been moderator-free the entire time.
the moderators ENABLE the childish behavior. the moderators ARE the problem. Anderson Cooper? are you serious? shame on any of you who support that clown. He's just the most obvious one though. they're ALL bad and all primarily interested in face time for themselves.
now, that said, i think perhaps the audience should be able to prioritize a list of questions from most important to least. if they choose to be idiots, at least they can be directly blamed. but what we need is open dialogue, between the candidates, with some sort of mechanism for them to be able to judge each other's answers. start from a completely open format, then realize that politicians avoid questions they don't like, so allow the opponent to keep track of that. allow the opponent to document areas that require further detail, etc.. let THEM decide what they need to do and how they want to do it. not pundittards.
i don't know the details, but the entire process needs to evolve into a more fact-filled, useful discussion instead of a gotcha game with entirely useless talking head moderators pushing their own agendas and getting in the way.
if the candidates can't handle a debate like grown ups, then we should know it. if one candidate is better able to deal with a situation like that, then we should know it.
finally, Andrea Mitchell is FUCKING USELESS, as is the entire generation of Imus hangers-on who long ago gave up journalism for personal fame and wealth. they don't know when to leave, they can't take a hint, so somebody's going to have to kick them out.
Trittydi @ 79:
jollytyrant @ 18:
I vote a tie! but that's just me.
I say turn it back over to the League of Women Voters.
anyone remember that?
Pumpkinhead is such a whore. He's the one who has been talking about Reverend Wright, character garbage, and general establishment mudslinging all this time. The debate he moderated with Brainless Williams had so many questions about race that a hero in the audience shouted out, "These are all race-based questions! Why are you asking all these race-based questions?" Pumpkinhead acts like he's the wise man of the pundit class, but he's just a chump, a dork, looking for approval from the cool people.
Let's translate the MSM speak:
"That would be pretty interesting to cover" = "That would really keep our tails twisting to bring all the other crap back into the coverage because we have to keep the sheeple distracted and can't tell them the truth".
The concept is interesting and in theory would be ideal. Theory, however, usually loses in the transition to practice. There is nothing I would like to see more than the real issues discussed and debated with no moderators but it isn't going to happen. Ever. Even if my wildest dream came true and it did happen, the pundits would be spinning, spinning and spinning from the handshake to the next appearance and would twist and magnify every last soundbyte. All of the good - undone!
think about it @ 54:
Spoken like a true "progressive." We can't have somebody in the election who isn't from one of the two wings of the corporate/war party and who doesn't fall all over themselves to put the interests of Israel over and above the interests of our own country. That would simply be unthinkable.
Obama's Money Cartel:
How Barack Obama Fronted for the Most Vicious Predators on Wall Street
Bankrolling a Presidential Campaign: The Obama Bubble Agenda
Sumerian @ 87:
What are you Naderites complaining about? Your boy is every bit the serious candidate in this election that he's ever been. With the same odds of winning. So vote for him if you want. Geez.
And the general C&L commenter consensus is:
Go fuck yourself, Russert.
One Year Wonder @ 89:
And Russert replied Timmeh!
Mojopo @ 9:
There also the same old farts who think social security and medicare should be increased. True repukes. "I want mine, and fuck everyone else!"
Real issues? Like gay marraige, abortion, lapel pins, school prayer, black preachers, and their perrenial tax cut con-job; where they throw a couple of hundred bucks at the red state morons, so that they will in turn support their own economic suicide.
These are the only issues repukes will ever talk about, because to discuss the "success" of their real policy initiatives would spell complete disaster for the GOPer's, and they know it.
"Can you imagine?" Give me a break. It's the Tim Russerts and the other talking heads of the world that resulted in more than an hour of the debate on ABC dealing with inane non-issues before they finally got to something substantive. It's these kinds of people that asked Hillary and Obama, "Would you pledge to pick the other person as the VP?" When Tim Russert brings this possibility up as if it's a good thing, it makes me sick to think of what they've been doing to us for the last year.
"And when pigs start flying out of my ass, we'll eat free bacon all the time!"
(from "Two and a Half Men")
Tim Russert: Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?!
Not if he moderates the debate.
Oh Tim you card ,you would never let that happen.
Russert and his pals come across as schizophrenic. First they sabotage the democratic process by concentrating on lapel pins and other inane issues that will distract the voters from the real issues, and then they "pat themselves on the back" that they are really for the democratic process by asking, "Isn't this a good idea?" Well, if the idea is that the media is not involved at all, then I say go for it.
It's easy if you try.
NEVER happen. Simple as that. None of these talking heads could be that civil.
Tim Russert: Can you imagine an election based on actual issues?!
Timmeh's old enough to remember a time when they were for the most part. Right on his show.
What a pathetic gasbag he is.
miss_kitty @ 100:
I mean, right on the show he has taken over-when REAL journalists ran it
Moderators:
Martha Rountree -- 1947 - 1953
Ned Brooks -- 1953 - 1965
Lawrence Spivak -- 1966 - 1975
Bill Monroe -- 1975 - 1984
Roger Mudd / Marvin Kalb (co-moderators)--1984 - 1985
Marvin Kalb -- 1985 - 1987
Chris Wallace-- 1987 - 1988Garrick Utley -- 1989 - 1991
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