Please accept my invitation to enjoy a period of rest and assimilation. You can return later for another round of pure intensity.

As your lawyer, I advise you to turn off your T.V.

Symon @ 3:

As your lawyer, I advise you to turn off your T.V.

But what will we do without "content"?

Every election year we have to find a boogieman. Four years ago it was the homosexual. This year it's the immigrant. Who knows? Four years from now it might be the homosexual immigrant.

nothing like a regular heavy dose of racist, misanthropic xenophobia to keep the old juices flowing, eh?

the reality is people like that O’Reilly and Beck and their supporters ... pathetic

good people and networks have grown
... has the wacko right wing GOP in a spiral...

…historic vote on the GI Bill. After last week’s victory in the House of Representatives, today the bill passed the
Senate by an overwhelming vote of 75-22. Click here to see who voted for it and who voted against it
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...

....good to see.

good people are uniting and care about what is happening to our country..
and doing something about it...

Geno in Ptown @ 10:

He's just a propaganda machine.

Thats why he has a $50 Million a year contract. Buying people willing to sell out is expensive.

L.A. Confidential @ 13:

Geno in Ptown @ 10:

He's just a propaganda machine.

Thats why he has a $50 Million a year contract. Buying people willing to sell out is expensive.

LA Confidential, tell me you're joking. Beck is getting paid $50 mil a year? I just do not believe that...

You know, you're right about all the anti-immigrant rhetoric which exists... I've come across well meaning people who genuinely believed that immigrants didn't pay taxes before. I didn't know where they got that idea.

BUT

I'm afraid I'll need more convincing that there is not a plan to create the North American Union.

Like Telecom Immunity, or Network neutrality, or Electronic Voting, or (in Europe) the Constitution Treaty... some things will just KEEP coming back, regardless of public opposition, because those in power want them implemented.

It may not be until 2020, but I really think the Amero is coming.

Yes, the "journalists" shown in the video here are, to varying degrees, whacked.

But, regardless, the costs of illegal immigration are nevertheless very real.

Man, that was scary. Through Dobbs, Beck, O'Reilly, I hear the ghosts of a time when similar hate was said about people like me.....draped around the American flag of course.

Sorry but from my view here in Texas, the super highway is in the works, and anyone who goes to our local hospital you will see a lot of services being done in illegals. You need to get out more in this part of the country and not just look for ways to back up your ideology. I'm for Obama and a long time liberal but this issue is one that I side with Lou on as do most in my part of the country, we are paying for it all the time down here. It is you people that are trying to cover up what is going on.

Didn't anyone see former Mexican President Vicente Fox on Larry King Live the other night?

He confirmed the existence of a plan (conceived with President Bush) to create a new regional currency in the Americas. Check the transcript on CNN (if it's up yet).

Just because you say "it's a conspiracy theory!" doesn't mean it isn't true.

"...you might be among those who believe that the U.S. government and American society are groaning under the weight of undocumented immigrants. You might believe that there is a terrifying crime wave attributable to illegal immigration. You might believe that undocumented immigrants feast on a cornucopia of social services, while avoiding paying taxes. You might also believe that they are voting illegally in large numbers, and that they bring with them all sorts of diseases."

AND YOU WOULD BE RIGHT.

Just try being a schoolteacher in Southern California and see what you have to deal with when it comes to the illegal's kids...talk to ANY teacher that is not some rose-colored glasses wearing bleeding heart and you will hear tales that will curl your hair. Talk to any realist, and I don't care what their political affiliation is, they will tell you the truth. Get out of your gated communities and white-flight enclaves, climb down off your high horses and ivory towers and try being a college or high school kid attempting to get a low paying job. Try to be a woman and get through the harassing gauntlet of day workers at Home Depot. Walk through the crack vials outside your local bodega. Try and get someone in a kitchen that can speak your nation's language. Oh, it isn't the immigrant's fault that they are here, I know all of that, they would not be here if it were not for the predatory employment practices that prefer them to legal workers. We have to prosecute the employers and the illegal immigration problem WILL dry up, over night.

The solution is simple, the will to do the simple solution is simply not there.

Remember this, just because you have a generally liberal viewpoint, you don't have to hop on the bandwagon and wave the flag for every single so-called "liberal" issue out there. Sometimes even an A-hole like O'Reilly or a curmudgeon like Dobbs, or an idiot like Beck can actually be right.

And...sometimes you can be wrong.

Live in a place where these immigration issues are a very visible, tangible REAL daily problem and your opinions will change, I guarantee you.

There's NO WAY Glenn Dreck is making 50 mil per year. Limpballs makes a "mere" 28 mil.

Samdog:

So when you moving out ?

Geno in Ptown @ 15:

L.A. Confidential @ 13:

Geno in Ptown @ 10:

He's just a propaganda machine.

Thats why he has a $50 Million a year contract. Buying people willing to sell out is expensive.

LA Confidential, tell me you're joking. Beck is getting paid $50 mil a year? I just do not believe that...

On November 5, 2007, The New York Times reported that Premiere Radio Networks was extending Beck's contract. Two sources with knowledge of the deal said the five-year contract was valued at $50 million.

I think they strayed from the point by bringing up the whole NAFTA super highway issue. Which I think is unrelated.

Christian @23: I too live in Texas and do not see the problem of illegal immigrants
with the same, narrow view as you. Read the article and stop watching Lou, O'Liely, and Beck for some facts and not the posturing and pandering preformed
by those three clowns.

Mm. More than just 'predatory employment practices' are driving immigrants here. I dig what you're saying, samdog, but life's a mess, isn't it? roughly 100 + years of messed-up foreign policy towards the lands to the south are finally bearing fruit, and here's the real rub... folks trying to get paid more than a few dollars a day have found the only real solution here in the good ol' US of A. Exploitative economic policies towards our neighbors South... cheap bannanas and coffee?... are driving folks here, and I say God bless 'em.

Strain on social services? Too fucking bad.

These are people, not 'immigrants'... and WTF is written on the statue of liberty's base, anyway? Shit, we were all immigrants, those of us not aboriginal to this continent. The current wave of immigration, and here's the kicker, was seeded by US 'property rights' to the entire fucking western hemisphere south of the Texas border. It's OUR FAULT, dig? These folks would be much happier at home... only problem is we fucked their homes up enough to make living there virtually impossibly unsustainable... and now they're here. God bless 'em.

Strain on social services? Too fucking bad. Fix it. These folks are Americans now. The only reason they're 'illegal' in the first place is that our immigration laws are so restrictive now. These people are basically refugees of the economic 'warfare' we've visited on our South for the last 100 or so years.

So fix it.

Don't blame them. Blame the assholes who caused them to be refugees in the first place; blame the assholes who won't fix it.

Chico Hussein @ 30:

Samdog:

So when you moving out ?

Funny, I usually get this "If you don't like it, you can leave Amuhrkuh" stuff from righties. If I COULD leave, I WOULD go, but then...I'd be an illegal immigrant sponging off of someone else's nation, right? I'll wait until I can do it legally...maybe Ireland...maybe Canada...maybe even China...?

Samson- @ 37:

26 samdog Says: "Sometimes even an A-hole like O’Reilly or a curmudgeon like Dobbs, or an idiot like Beck can actually be right."

are illegal immigrants THE problem or are they a symptom of a more systemic economic problem?

Read on, i clearly said they are a symptom. I said we should prosecute employers.

Do these three pundits *believe* anything other than making whatever outrageous, false claim they can to help elect leadership who will lower the capital gains tax rate?

While I'm sure the Mexicangovernment and those crooked banks, businesses, and politicians who profit from illegal activity appreciate MMFA's help, it'd be nice if I could expect more from this site. For instance, consider the NAFTASuperhighway. In their report, MMFA admits that it exists. They point out that Dobbs sometimes refers to it as major construction project to be performed and other times as more of an idea. Regarding the latter, MMFA has confirmed Dobbs' position. Hopefully this site could do a follow-up where it actually looks at the MMFA report and analyzes it looking for all the interesting things they left out, minimized, or lied about.

Dave @ 38:

Mm. More than just 'predatory employment practices' are driving immigrants here. I dig what you're saying, samdog, but life's a mess, isn't it? roughly 100 + years of messed-up foreign policy towards the lands to the south are finally bearing fruit, and here's the real rub... folks trying to get paid more than a few dollars a day have found the only real solution here in the good ol' US of A. Exploitative economic policies towards our neighbors South... cheap bannanas and coffee?... are driving folks here, and I say God bless 'em.

Strain on social services? Too fucking bad.

Nah-h-h...sorry. I don't buy into collective guilt. As a redneck comedian once said, "I never owned any slaves. I understand if you are upset, but it had NOTHING to do with me. If you want to dig up my great grandaddy and kick his ass, feel free, but leave me out of it." I pretty much subscribe to this philosophy. The illegal immigration mess is a problem here and now, it may well have been caused by the Monroe Doctrine and 19th century imperialism and exploitation, but I wasn't there, and am not responsible for any of that. I DO NOT agree that these people are American citizens now, nor do I buy into the crap line that "we are all immigrants here"...if you believe that, even the aboriginal people of North and South America are immigrants because they migrated from Asia hundreds of thousands of years ago, I mean, how far do you want to go back before you can comfortably call someone a NON-immigrant? I do agree, however, that WE do need to fix things NOW. Start with prosecuting employers of illegals. Thanks for the discourse.

These are people, not 'immigrants'... and WTF is written on the statue of liberty's base, anyway? Shit, we were all immigrants, those of us not aboriginal to this continent. The current wave of immigration, and here's the kicker, was seeded by US 'property rights' to the entire fucking western hemisphere south of the Texas border. It's OUR FAULT, dig? These folks would be much happier at home... only problem is we fucked their homes up enough to make living there virtually impossibly unsustainable... and now they're here. God bless 'em.

Strain on social services? Too fucking bad. Fix it. These folks are Americans now. The only reason they're 'illegal' in the first place is that our immigration laws are so restrictive now. These people are basically refugees of the economic 'warfare' we've visited on our South for the last 100 or so years.

So fix it.

Don't blame them. Blame the assholes who caused them to be refugees in the first place; blame the assholes who won't fix it.

Dobbs, Beck et al, are not "fostering" anything. The are reflecting a feeling among the population, that the Elites in both parties ignore.
"Undocumented"= illegal. Illegal means criminal. Criminal means there is a legitimate right to reject these people.
Of course, the only response we get from the elitist wing of the Democratic party is "you're racist".
Yup, as an Obama voter, I'm racist.
Whatever, I've given up trying to have an honest, intelligent debate on the subject of illegal immigration.
:rollingeyes:

Why do we have a government run, "socialized" immigration service, anyway? Wouldn't a truly conservative argument be to reduce or eliminate this bureaucracy? Instead, conservatives are demanding *more* government oversight and interference.

Good people don't forsake their family and friends over 'politics.'

all these assertions are myths????

way to assist the corporatists

nicole, you really need to take a visit to california before making these assertions

53 wayne5 Says: "The Trans Texas Highway is real and I don’t want it."

i have been trying to find out hard facts on the TTH. i visited the guv's web page and he has a Q&A on the facts about the "corridor", and he seems to leave open the possibility for a superhighway. but, as far as basic info on the TTH itself, i am only coming up with humanevents.org, eagleforum, and worldnetdaily links. which are all far, far, far right BS sites. i checked NYT, washpost, and other places but can't find good info.

do you know where i can find a reputable source that can chat this up? (which is, i think, part of the problem. you have people like me trying to get info and the only sites making claims about this are the same sights that discount climate change, evolution and a spherical earth. so, if we could get a believable source that would be a step in the left direction)

Media Matters is an "Action Network?" You can express your outrage by sending an e-petition to a hired anchor from CNN which is like sending a letter to Tinkerbell at Disney.

Folks, these are actors, they could as well be fictional characters. It is not effective politics to direct your rage at fictional characters. You have to attack their creators to make change. That means naming names of the people and major shareholders that run Time Warner, etc and going after them.

You can do it Media Matters. The only thing you have to risk is your non-profit status.

Interesting that this little snippet from MMAN refers to super-NAFTA as a myth when it is obviously not. The Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) of North America is a very real project and affects nearly everyone who lives in North America. SPP is a distinctly undemocratic merger of big industry and big government to the extent that it will become increasingly different to discern the difference between the two parties.

http://www.spp.gov/

The "highway" component of SPP is, according to the SPP (they have a facts & myths page) a "myth." SPP is a very dangerous project and will remain so regardless of whether the SPP PR folks confirm or deny plans for any highway. I urge you to look into SPP; don't let the highway issue dissuade you from further investigation into the organization of this "partnership."

Billy @ 63:

John @ 25:

Didn't anyone see former Mexican President Vicente Fox on Larry King Live the other night?

He confirmed the existence of a plan (conceived with President Bush) to create a new regional currency in the Americas. Check the transcript on CNN (if it's up yet).

Just because you say "it's a conspiracy theory!" doesn't mean it isn't true.

Or, you've heard of the Euro, right?

Now go feed "Amero" into your favorite search engine.

I prefer the "yanko" or "canucko" to be honest.

"The illegal immigration mess is a problem here and now, it may well have been caused by the Monroe Doctrine and 19th century imperialism and exploitation, but I wasn’t there, and am not responsible for any of that. I DO NOT agree that these people are American citizens now, nor do I buy into the crap line that “we are all immigrants here”…if you believe that, even the aboriginal people of North and South America are immigrants because they migrated from Asia hundreds of thousands of years ago, I mean, how far do you want to go back before you can comfortably call someone a NON-immigrant?"

Well, we're not talking about hundreds-of-thousands of years ago. We're talking a generation or two. Cause-and-effect, dude. Sucks that we're not directly responsible, but that's life. Compare: longer lines at the ER vs. watching your kids eat bread made with dirt and sawdust to make it stretch farther.

No, you're not directly responsible for the fact that these folks have to flee their homelands. Yes, you have to deal with the ramifications. We all do. We can't just 'close our borders' (doesn't work, obviously) and we can't turn away people with a hacking cough or broken leg from our hospitals. We can't.

Legalize them and have them pay taxes like the rest of us, and it eases the burden. Simple. I dig we don't like brown people here, as a whole, but tough.

Fact is we as a nation caused this to happen. These folks aren't just here for the promise of a better life. They're here because we fucked up their homes. As a nation. Don't feel like dealing with that reality? Sorry.

Move.

Uncle Joe@59: And that is the way it should be.

Wow, the righties have moved in. So kids born in America should be illegals also? This is insane.

reyvn @ 61:

oh woe to the taxpayer! getting burdened with the cost of caring for illegals!

fact #1: undocumented immigrants mostly pay income taxes

How does that work? Do they pay FICA? Do they fill out an I-9 form?

fact #2: undocumented immigrants HAVE to pay sales taxes for everything they consume, from food to utilities to gasoline
fact #3: a big part of those taxes would invariably head over to
a. social security
b. unemployment benefits
c. social services (health, education)
2 of 3 of which undocemented immigrants have no way of claiming. And will be claimed by YOU, the woeful, opressed, and dare i say "vexed" american citizen.
fact #4: more people who spend = more consumption = bigger market = bigger economy. this is a simple rule of classical market economics. so why are jobs drying up? OUTSOURCING. Working stiffs like you, me, and the undocumented immigrants aren't to blame. It's the corporations who would rather earn a couple of billion more than what they already do than keep the American economy healthy by keeping jobs here.

got THAT, "vexed"?

Income taxes and sales taxes do not go to social security or anything else covered by FICA.

Doggiebobo @ 68:

Uncle Joe@59: And that is the way it should be.

no sir

when someone applies for immigrant status, they are supposed to show that they have the means to take care of themselves, or have family members who can help

the corporatists know that the social services system will pick up the slack that allows them to pay below the minimum wage and provide no benefits

why are so many libs happy about this blatant attack on the middle class?

why are so many libs happy about this blatant attack on union labor?

Uncle Joe@74: You are trying now to expand the issue...which was, as I understood, that children born in the U.S. to illegals are and should be entitled
to various services provided to us all.

It is perspectives like this that make me highly suspicious of this site. When legitimate concerns of people around major issues like illegal immigration are dismissed as nothing short of racism, and when unconstitutional and undemocratic processes that are put in place -- like the SPP/NAU which has working groups currently from all three government harmonizing areas like immigration, military, agricultural and legal processes -- are brushed off as conspiracy theory, then I really start to wonder who funds these guys. These phenomenon, in my opinion, are part of the gradual unwinding of America as a country, as are the futile wars in the middle east that America is wallowing in. So why is this site so dismissive of anyone who expresses concerns about these issues, as many here on this site today have done?

Is Crooks and Liars as much about shaping "progressive" thought as it is to inform? And if so, to what end?

"Conspiracy theorist" is always used to discredit people whose ideas that are outside mainstream thought but often accurately describe what is happenning. It is almost a hypnitic way of discrediting someone without having to address any of the issues raised, but it raises a red flag in my mind when someone uses that expression because it pretty much confirms they have nothing of substance to refute to what has been presented or that they just want to shut the discussion down. When people do that, I am immediatly suspicious of their intentions.

As was pointed out earlier, warrentless wiretapping, torture and secret prisons were all decried as too fantastic to be real, but later turned out to be oh so true.

Look up National Council of La Raza.

I'm relieved most American's don't think like most of you. Lou Dobb's is a true patriot. You people who find this mass invasion from South America AOK are on the same page as Bu$h on this issue. REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!! BITCHES !!!

THANK YOU...Buzz@20...

It's one thing to be liberal, another to be stupid.

Illegal immigrants drive down wages and are a burden on our already tanking economy. And yes, some are also a danger to the public health. Since when is it racist to want to protect the sovereignty of The United Sates? Not to single out Mexican Nationals, they just happen to the bulk of illegal aliens, one third of Mexico's operating budget depends on money sent back by illegals working here. Yes, there is an organization known as the Reconquistas whose goal is to return the American southwest to Mexico. Have a gang problem? Ever heard of MS13 or the Latin Kings or worse, Surenos, also known as La Eme?

hey David @ 79

Perhaps if that entire drivel was factually true you would have provided us with supporting evidence, you know, to back up your argument? "Leprosy is making a comeback" is pure fiction as reported by the national CDC and department of health. This is just one example of the bullshit being thrown at viewers on these networks and you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

The underlying message in all these shows is racism. Glenn Beck asked Keith Ellison, the first Muslim congressman, if he's a member of Al Qaeda. How the fuck is Glenn Beck concerned about illegal immigration when he lobs such vitriol at a U.S. congressman?
There's a trend here, and it's clear to many what it is. You're just masking it with your concern-troll issues.

We have a situation here where everybody seems to lose: the u.s. population and the mexican people.
This IS an issue. And so just as the u.s. gov't would have it the battle is between two populations that are losing. Jobs go to mexico, Fox doesn't take care of his people. The people come here earning slave wages which also depresses wages for u.s. citizens as citizen jobs go everywhere ELSE on the globe but here. Please do not go into taking jobs nobody wants. These issues are MUCH broader than that. Divide and conquer baby.

I personally don't bother watching the 3-headed hydra since pulling the plug on cable. The assholes are keeping a complex issue polarized.

We do have immigration laws like every country in the world. I would give anything to emmigrate to Canada (first generation american with 400+ years history there) but it will take 7 years and all kinds of criteria I can't afford.

I wish the mexican gov't would take care of it's people.
I wish the u.s. gov't would take care of it's people.

Like I said, we all lose.

the Trans texas corridor...is a reality

http://www.keeptexasmoving.com/index.php

crazytown @ 87:

We do have immigration laws like every country in the world. I would give anything to emmigrate to Canada (first generation american with 400+ years history there) but it will take 7 years and all kinds of criteria I can't afford.

We have immigration laws and we have trade laws, the former are aimed at controlling people who come into the U.S. the latter are aimed at controlling Mexico's economy.

By the way, seven (7) years is pretty lucky. If a Mexican wanted to immigrate legally to the U.S. it would take him/her more than 10 years.

Scroll down to the table to see where cases of Mexican immigrants stand:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4231.html

I expect it from Dennis and other repug trolls, but the sheer quantity of xenophobic commenters here at C&L is always surprising.

Ben@93,

If perchance you're referring to me you're full of shit. Impossible to work anything out or reach any middle ground.
This is nuts.
And I'm gone from this loaded shit-filled thread.

Crazytown is right, this is a complex issue, but unfortunately most of us tend to just give a knee-jerk reaction to something we do not agree with. While the newscast personalities are essentially whores that appeal to segements within the public, to deny there are any severe negative aspects to millions of undocumented people moving here would seem to be shortsighted, if not out right blind. But prosecuting the poorest of us (us being humans) is a cruel action to take, these people are desperate. Perhaps we should focus on the employers and corporations that are saving a crapload of money by hiring these desperate souls. And it wouldn't hurt to steamline our process of legal immigration, but I suppose that is just tilting at windmills.

I am very appalled at some of the comments here. It's as if I stepped into a time warp in which the folks are having their picnic while watching the lynching du jour while posing for photographs. Did anyone read the article? Does anyone feel rather sick that some of the information comes from right wing think tanks which only have one thing in mind: to stir up racist and xenophobic feelings in the American populace.

You know, whenever I read comments like this, I wonder about how brown-skinned folks like myself fit into this. Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand, not one of you can tell who is undocumented and who isn't. That means when you take your anger out on someone with brown skin, you can take your anger out on a person of color's loved ones without notice. And you'd feel nothing about it, with no empathy involved because the thought that would be in the back of your mind is that the person is "illegal".

To me, this only demonstrates how far and deeply ingrained prejudice, racism and xenophobia goes. Now if this is scary for a white person who "gets it" about racism against folks of color, just think how frightening this is for a person of color who has to witness this BS everyday all of their lives.

Pardon my French, but this shit never stops. We hear shit from Lou Dobbs, from our co-workers, our bosses, our friends, our neighbors, and so-on. So, I'm not surprised that well-meaning, God-fearing folks like yourself would turn into rabid dogs over the threat of undocumented workers and "broken borders."

I just want to know something: just because some right wing think tank tells you that it is true, why do you believe it so easily?

Or do you care that it is these same people that prop up Bush and his cronies?

Probably not because you've got your hate on. :(

You know, I love C&L, Digby, Eschaton, etc... I read C&L every day. Twice on weekends. But you folks are so full of bullspit when it comes to the issue of illegal aliens. Forget about the Mexican flag they raised over some U.S. Post Office in California? Forget about La Raza (the race)? Forget about the trash and environmental damage done by the hundreds, thousands, even millions of illegal aliens crossing the border? Forget about the millions of dollars that flow out of our country? Forget about all that and more? Not hardly. Wish I could.

Road work is kicking into high gear here in D/FW. ALL the road crews I see are Hispanic. Almost lunch time. Time to get a burger. ALL the fast food personnel are Hispanic (even the guy at the drive through who doesn't speak english). I get a leak in the bathroom here in my apartment. ALL the maintenance men for my complex are Hispanic. I get on my bike and ride to give the guys some room to work. Only one speaks english anyway. I pass the yard men that mow our lawns and the park maintenance crews that maintain the trail I ride. ALL are Hispanic. I go to the Dentist and pick up the Texas Monthly Magazine to kill time. Man, those ranchers and farmers are really mad at some Texas politician who's working really hard to take their land for that non-existent super corridor.

Racist? I never see or hear about African-Mexicans or Asian-Mexicans or (fill in the blank)-Mexicans. On the other hand, I live in one of the most diverse metropolitan areas in the most diverse country in the world. My upstairs neighbor is Pakistani and my upstairs neigbor across the way is (gasp) Hispanic. My barber is Vietnamese, and my doctor is Indian. Follow my heritage and about every fifty years half my ancestors were trying to kill the other half. Not a good thing, but still. They seem to have gotten over it and made love instead of war

I've put up with this crap all my life and never had a problem with it. Not even when the uninsured motorist that hit my car was an illegal alien. He was from Mexico by the way.But now, twenty years after the last amnesty, I've had enough. Fool me once... In the immortal words of Keith Olberman you people who believe these illegal aliens aren't having an impact on our country should "shut the hell up". By the way. Now that the land of milk and honey is going down the tubes they're beginning to go home. With Peak Oil about to destroy life as we know it, the point will become moot.

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:

"Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand..."

NO, it doesn't. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is, we as a sovereign nation have the right to decide who can become a citizen.
Ireland does not grant automatic citizenship to children born on it's soil. Is that (very liberal by comparison to the U.S.) nation full of 'racists'?

IMPYO @ 103:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:

"Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand..."

NO, it doesn't. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is, we as a sovereign nation have the right to decide who can become a citizen.
Ireland does not grant automatic citizenship to children born on it's soil. Is that (very liberal by comparison to the U.S.) nation full of 'racists'?

In short, yes. I don't think the Native Americans should have granted "citizenship" to the English refugees who came here. Oh, that's right, those Colonial settlers (including the Pochantas-loving John Smith) took it by force just like they took my ancestors by force. And then with Manifest Destiny, those settlers stole all the Indian territories by force.

Hmmm. All of that was based on racism. This entire country had started from it and continues to perpetuate it. So don't feel that your conscience is assuaged by saying that the latest bound anti-immigration talk is devoid of racism.

samdog @ 28:

Canuknotusa @ 22:

Americans should just shut their damn TVs off, and become more like Canadians.

You mean live indoors for six months out of the year?

and not forgetting the Polar Bears

wayne5 @ 54:

The Trans Texas Highway is real and I don't want it. C and L is one of my favorite sites. This is the first time I have commented on a report. I am liberal on immigration. It scares me when I read reports like this that try to tell people the TTH is a myth, are you guys going to turn out to be just like the rest?

I believe its mentioned on one official map

I am sure the various govs are drooling at the prospect of building a 'NAFTA Superhighway', but alas for them (and the taxpayer) the cost would be horrendous,
all those rail lines, motorway roads and customs terminals at various place along the route, it would cost a Trillion dollars maybe.
If Chimpy and the other morons hadnt played 'Attilla the Hun' in Iraq then maybe we could have afforded to build it.

LD @ 110:

I love C&L but I gotta disagree with you on this one.. Living in Texas illegal immigration IS a problem.. You would probably be amazed at the people who are living in the country illegally.. and its not that alot of them aren't nice people or anything.. but they shouldnt be here. There are people who have followed the rules and applied to become a part of our country who are still waiting in line...

as the people who are undocumented and their families both side of the border say "we didnt cross the border, the border crossed us"
It was the American land grabbers in the 19th Century that took the SW and some of the people that lived there.

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 105:

IMPYO @ 103:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:

"Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand..."

NO, it doesn't. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is, we as a sovereign nation have the right to decide who can become a citizen.
Ireland does not grant automatic citizenship to children born on it's soil. Is that (very liberal by comparison to the U.S.) nation full of 'racists'?

In short, yes. I don't think the Native Americans should have granted "citizenship" to the English refugees who came here. Oh, that's right, those Colonial settlers (including the Pochantas-loving John Smith) took it by force just like they took my ancestors by force. And then with Manifest Destiny, those settlers stole all the Indian territories by force.

Hmmm. All of that was based on racism. This entire country had started from it and continues to perpetuate it. So don't feel that your conscience is assuaged by saying that the latest bound anti-immigration talk is devoid of racism.

Well said Ceci, when Karma finally catches up with the thieves, as the legend says, this land will return to it's rightful owners. The current abomination in the guise of George W Bush is a sure sign the days of this experiment in the outdated outrageous concept of crapifest destiny are numbered.

It was a selective massacre at the Alamo from What I read, foreign enemy combatants etc.

Greg2 @ 115:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 105:

IMPYO @ 103:

Well said Ceci, when Karma finally catches up with the thieves, as the legend says, this land will return to it's rightful owners. The current abomination in the guise of George W Bush is a sure sign the days of this experiment in the outdated outrageous concept of crapifest destiny are numbered.

Simply amazing......

Its people like you that fuel the Republican/Lieberman "Democrats hate america movement."

I mean seriously son.. whats wrong with your head?

L.A. Confidential @ 14:

The Smiths @ 11:

the reality is people like that O’Reilly and Beck and their supporters ... pathetic

good people and networks have grown
... has the wacko right wing GOP in a spiral...

…historic vote on the GI Bill. After last week’s victory in the House of Representatives, today the bill passed the
Senate by an overwhelming vote of 75-22. Click here to see who voted for it and who voted against it
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...

....good to see.

good people are uniting and care about what is happening to our country..
and doing something about it...

It's a start. Knowing the decider though he'll probably reject it.

Probably will - but those numbers represent a veto-proof majority in both the house and the senate.

1967 Says: CNN has joined ranks with Fox a looooooong time ago. The disgusting overt racism being peddled on these networks is sure to make any smart person vomit.

And one more thing…….even if the myth that illegal immigrants are “stealing” our tax dollars by gaming the system is true, isn’t it kind of moronic to be outraged over a few thousands of dollars when the biggest heist in U.S. history is happening in front of our eyes and is perpetrated by the criminal in chief? The American tax payer is being robbed of millions of dollars due to the illegal war in Iraq. Why aren’t these networks showing outrage over that? Why prey on the little guy, because he’s weak?

Hey '67 --

It's all part and parcel of the bankrupting of America, just like the wars in the Middle East are. Want proof? Look at the price of oil. Much of the lift is speculators moving wealth into commodities because the US dollar is tanking. The government and corporate interests are encouraging and funding the immigration wave because it helps them rewrite the rules. Read Shock Doctrine for a blueprint of what they are up to, Naomi Klein I believe, (or any book for that matter.) The powers that be have broken nations all around the world and now they are taking down the US. And you can take that to the bank.

As for your vicious potty mouth and demands for proof, chill out. Your tone again speaks more to shutting down dialogue when it is clear a discussion is needed. You are not the sole arbitor of the truth. For example, some people have concerns about illegal immigration and the NAU, correct? What further proof do you need?

And why is raising questions around these issues somehow wrong? Isn't that how you learn, about anything?

You are afraid of open discussion, that is why your tone is so aggressive. But the illegal immigrant issue is complex, important and very worthy of discussion. And creating serious tensions.

And when as many as 30 million illegal immigrants migrate into America, that creates profound changes. Mexico has many billionaires, but the political feudal system in Mexico serves to keep others impovrished. Mexico wants that pressure valved by sending their issues north. And the corporatists want to have a Mexican-like workforce with no rights and no power.

And if it is part of someone's global social reengineering' project like the SPP also appears to be, I think a discussion is in order. Like Yesterday. You don't like it, rant and rave all you want.

I have no issues with someone when they try to lift up their lives. But if it is being used to collapse one of the last countries where individual freedom is at least appreciated, it has to stop.

LD @ 114:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 105:

IMPYO @ 103:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:

"Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand..."

NO, it doesn't. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is, we as a sovereign nation have the right to decide who can become a citizen.
Ireland does not grant automatic citizenship to children born on it's soil. Is that (very liberal by comparison to the U.S.) nation full of 'racists'?

In short, yes. I don't think the Native Americans should have granted "citizenship" to the English refugees who came here. Oh, that's right, those Colonial settlers (including the Pochantas-loving John Smith) took it by force just like they took my ancestors by force. And then with Manifest Destiny, those settlers stole all the Indian territories by force.

Hmmm. All of that was based on racism. This entire country had started from it and continues to perpetuate it. So don't feel that your conscience is assuaged by saying that the latest bound anti-immigration talk is devoid of racism.

I dunno if you've been following the news.. but the World has changed a little bit in the last 400 years....

You going to accuse Australians of being a bunch of escaped convicts next?

This thread specifically addresses a North American problem. Please don't obfuscate it.

And no, the World has not changed. What do you think Iraq is all about? Why do you think some folks call the war in Iraq and Afghanistan an "occupation"?

That's why it is always problematic when folks with entitlement speak without having an insight into history and how it affects the colonized folks in this world. I think you need to read a little bit more about the effects of colonialism before you ask such a question again.

Beck, Savage, Limpdick, O'Lielly, Dobbs, Coulter, Malkin, they all love to hate!

IMPYO @ 103:

The Very Appeasing and Bitter Ceci Hussein Says:

"Because racism and illegal immigration goes hand-in-hand..."

NO, it doesn't. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is, we as a sovereign nation have the right to decide who can become a citizen.
Ireland does not grant automatic citizenship to children born on it's soil. Is that (very liberal by comparison to the U.S.) nation full of 'racists'?

Quit your whining, when your grandparents came to this country they didn't have to jump through what can only be described as an obstacle course of bureaucracy. Back then they were literally handing out green cards. After the early 90s and with NAFTA being passed, immigration laws became impossible. So shut the fuck up and move on.

LD @ 128:

How is comparing immigration to colonialism to the war in Iraq not obfuscating the issue?

Both involve a paternalistic, white-male dominated culture imposing their attitudes, racism and subjugation on a brown-skinned people. That's why it clearly speaks to colonialism. Unless you've been asleep, how can you not forget the U.S. involvement in both the Middle East and in South America? Because of U.S. policy alone, countries in South America (and in the M.E. by extension), are in upheaval.

But, you must have been blind to that.

You can trace the origins of every country on the map to some tribe or another taking land by force... If that negates any sovereignty any nation has than we just shouldnt have borders at all...

Blah, blah, blah.....I write off this talk as typical stuff I hear from some clueless white people from all over the web who try to equate their experience to everyone else's while forgetting about the differences in subjugation when it comes to white people dominating brown and black-skinned people.

Please save that cluelessness for someone who actually cares.

Your using this argument to justify illegal immigration is ridiculous at best.... but than you obviously arent objective..

Neither are you. So why does your endorsement of the ridiculous important?

You're angry at the US for something and its impairing your ability to reason clearly...

Ha, ha, ha. You should talk. You're worried about being called a racist instead of just calling the entire anti-immigration talk for what it is. I'd say your reasoning is even more impaired if you can't see how the anger and hate from the dominant culture affects people with brown skinned--oh that's right. Just because you say it's irrational it is.

Sorry, honey. I've grown tired of the denigrating talk in the real and the on-line world. And I think with your constant pleas of not wanting to be a bigot, you're showing the fear on your sleeve to the point of abject hysteria. After all, "not seeing the color" of folks is an affliction of the highest degree.

With all that pearl-clutching, I don't think *you* have the faculties to define what is rational or not.

Yer Daddy @ 81:

REMEMBER THE ALAMO !!! BITCHES !!!

Yeah, right, Texas and the Alamo were part of Mexico, and the insurgents got annihilated. That worked out well, didn't it?

Remember the Alamo Bitches.

How charming.

Wes, facts are inconvenient. It would imply responsibility.

tehghey @ 74:

RD @ 71:

That's some source there...

I was just looking for an image to give you an idea of what the "400 yards" is all about.

Whether it's true or not, the 400 yards does not refer to a single road 400 yards wide.

I have no issue with the 400 yard claim and I could care less. I've been in traffic where a 400 yard thoroughfare would have been nice! I take issue with the source from the biased website. For crying out loud, one of the contributors worked for Pat Buchanan...
If you don't want to look like a troll, try using objective references and not wingnutish ones.
After reading all of these comments, I have to think there was a coordinated effort from the right-wing web community here. On the bright side, all these links to conservative sites make it painfully obvious.
Why not try this one:
"I love C/L and I visit it all the time but we need private healthcare and more troops in Iraq for the next 100 years - go McCain!"

The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 131:

LD @ 128:

How is comparing immigration to colonialism to the war in Iraq not obfuscating the issue?

Both involve a paternalistic, white-male dominated culture imposing their attitudes, racism and subjugation on a brown-skinned people. That's why it clearly speaks to colonialism. Unless you've been asleep, how can you not forget the U.S. involvement in both the Middle East and in South America? Because of U.S. policy alone, countries in South America (and in the M.E. by extension), are in upheaval.

But, you must have been blind to that.

You can trace the origins of every country on the map to some tribe or another taking land by force... If that negates any sovereignty any nation has than we just shouldnt have borders at all...

Blah, blah, blah.....I write off this talk as typical stuff I hear from some clueless white people from all over the web who try to equate their experience to everyone else's while forgetting about the differences in subjugation when it comes to white people dominating brown and black-skinned people.

Please save that cluelessness for someone who actually cares.

Your using this argument to justify illegal immigration is ridiculous at best.... but than you obviously arent objective..

Neither are you. So why does your endorsement of the ridiculous important?

You're angry at the US for something and its impairing your ability to reason clearly...

Ha, ha, ha. You should talk. You're worried about being called a racist instead of just calling the entire anti-immigration talk for what it is. I'd say your reasoning is even more impaired if you can't see how the anger and hate from the dominant culture affects people with brown skinned--oh that's right. Just because you say it's irrational it is.

Sorry, honey. I've grown tired of the denigrating talk in the real and the on-line world. And I think with your constant pleas of not wanting to be a bigot, you're showing the fear on your sleeve to the point of abject hysteria. After all, "not seeing the color" of folks is an affliction of the highest degree.

With all that pearl-clutching, I don't think *you* have the faculties to define what is rational or not.

You need to get your head straight..... Your posts are raving and honestly... downright racist...

I'm not afraid of being called a racist because I'm not one... thus your insults dont carry much weight.. but thats not the point. You distract from the real issue with your constant shouts of racism and strawman arguments... You want to talk about entitlement? Go look at your posts..... Its insane.

You've got some real issues with "white people" and the US in general it seems.. and you really should start working those out... its pitiful to watch.

crazytown @ 132:

... (3 schools closed in our little town designed especially to accomodate hispanics
for lack of interest and participation) ...

Speaking of schools, California is about to fire thousands of teachers, because
we can no longer afford to pay them. As well, we are about to spend billions more on medical care
for prisoners, because a court has ordered it.

Here is our statewide public school enrollment by ethnicity:

http://data1.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/EnrollEthState.asp?Level=State&TheYear...

And our prison population:

http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/LAOMenus/Sections/crim_justice/5_cj_demogra...

As stated by LD:

You need to get your head straight..... Your posts are raving and honestly... downright racist...

Opposed to yours? Unless your people have been denied jobs, been disenfranchised at the voting box, ridiculed, persecuted, enslaved, murdered, hung in trees, burned out of their homes, forced to flee by sundown and lynched in front of the town's sherriff and mayor, I don't think you're qualified to say who is racist and who isn't. In fact, your statement shows how little you actually know about racism. Btw, have you read Tim Wise and Robert Jensen. That's a good place to start for a guy like you who is very unknowledgable about racism's impact on all institutions in society, including immigration.

I'm not afraid of being called a racist because I'm not one...

You're right. However, a strong, and unmitigated animus of prejudice resides instead.

Btw, I'm not racist as well and I'm not going to let you define my attitudes for me. That day is dead and gone.

thus your insults dont carry much weight.. but thats not the point. You distract from the real issue with your constant shouts of racism and strawman arguments...

Please. You only go this route because you are uncomfortable with how the conversation is going. That's okay, though. You aren't the first. You most certainly won't be the last.

You want to talk about entitlement? Go look at your posts..... Its insane.

You don't have the qualifications or merits to say who is insane or not. You are only blowing smoke.

Thus, I take your assessments with a grain of salt. You're only using a tactic to cut and run away from the one ton elephant in the room: race. No, I believe you are the entitled one here. After all, you pretend that you have the authority in this matter and no one else. If that isn't delusional, I don't know what is.

Believe me, I am very calm, cool, rational and collected when saying this: you are pretty much displaying the same behavior of a lot of people who hide their racism when talking about this issue. Your posts nakedly lay bare your fear and antagonism before the rest of us like a Playboy spread.

You've got some real issues with "white people" and the US in general it seems.. and you really should start working those out... its pitiful to watch.

If it is so hurtful to watch, perhaps you need to spend more time talking to people of color and their feelings in regard of this issue. If my comments shock the hell out of you, there are the opinions of others who will give you a coronary.

Sorry for this shock to your system.

And thanks, but no thanks, I have no problems with white people. But you have a problem with your "whiteness" and "white privilege". Now that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Opposed to yours? Unless your people have been denied jobs, been disenfranchised at the voting box, ridiculed, persecuted, enslaved, murdered, hung in trees, burned out of their homes, forced to flee by sundown and lynched in front of the town’s sherriff and mayor, I don’t think you’re qualified to say who is racist and who isn’t. In fact, your statement shows how little you actually know about racism. Btw, have you read Tim Wise and Robert Jensen. That’s a good place to start for a guy like you who is very unknowledgable about racism’s impact on all institutions in society, including immigration.

This quote is particularly telling.. So anything I have to say is invalid due strictly to the color of my skin.. whereas you are automatically an authority because of the color of yours?

How is that not racism again?

When I lived on the West Coast, I was mugged and jumped several times simply because I was walking through the wrong neighborhood for my race. The cops even filed it as a race-based crime... How do you think that feels? To get the shit beat out of you by 5 guys simply because people with your color skin arent supposed to walk or ride the bus through their neighborhood?

Yet... you sit there at your computer.. telling me that anything I have to say about racism is invalid because you imagine that my skin is white, while you are an unquestionable authority simply because your skin isnt?

HOW IS THAT NOT RACISM?

How bout you remove the plank from your own eye before you focus on the sawdust in everyone elses.

reyvn77 @ 148:

134 crazytown Says: Honest to fucking god, this has nothing to do whatsoever with so-called “brown people” whom in idle moments I’ve thought of as rather beautiful. This isn’t about race. It’s about an inability to feel or think about anyone but themselves.

_____________________________________________________________________

me, i'm thinking about other people. to prove it, I'm worried that a couple of my tax dollars are going to healthcare for some poor working class undocumenteds.
oh the irony.

Have you not been paying any attention? Its not just about a few healthcare dollars..

Heres another anecdote.. I was hit last year by a lady without a drivers license, without insurance, who was not here legally and guess who got to eat the deductible?

I'll give you one guess... It wasnt her. It you live up north you may not understand why its a problem... come live here in Texas and you'll understand a little better.

We're not talking about a few people using up a few dollars....

Like I said before.. If they want to come into this country, theres a system for doing that that many many people are following. Immigrants who graduate from US colleges are often denied Visa's because theres a long line.... I dont understand why people who simply choose to ignore the proper process should be given a free pass.. It just doesnt make any sense.

For some people like the House member from Colorado it may be about racism... but to make blanket derogatory statements about anyone who doesnt agree with you is a special kind of ignorance.