Morning Joe: Mika's Whopping Lie About "Balanced" Pastor Coverage
By Logan Murphy Sunday Jun 01, 2008 6:00pm 
The disparity in media coverage between Rev. Jeremiah Wright and John McCain's multiple pastor scandals has been widely documented. McCain's Media has done a splendid job of running cover for their candidate while hammering away at Obama -- but according to Morning Joe's Mika Brzezinski, that's all hogwash and how DARE anyone suggest otherwise?
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
During this morning's show, while talking about Senator Obama's decision to resign from his church, they read a viewer's e-mail complaining of MSNBC's obsession with his church while barely giving lip service to McCain's pastor problems. Mika was none too happy with the viewer's astute observations and shot back with one of the biggest, bald faced lies I've heard in quite some time:
"Okay, umm...first of all, I think we covered the Hagee story as much, umm...the Reverend Wright situation injected itself into the news cycle for sure, but having said that, don't you think that there is a difference or is there not, especially given the fact that he resigned from his church."
To say that MSNBC and Morning Joe covered the Pastor Hagee story as much as the Rev Wright story is laughable and an outright lie. Joe Scarborough ran wall to wall with with the Wright story for weeks on end, constantly chastising Senator Obama and obsessed over the church and the issue of race -- usually only stopping for headlines and weather in between. Mika was right in the middle of all this coverage, she should know better than to say something so ignorant and easily debunked. Contact MSNBC and demand a retraction.
Update: I thought it only fair to MSNBC that I acknowledge Keith Olbermann's extensive coverage of not only John Hagee, but McCain's other controversial religious endorsements as well as his pandering to the likes of Rev Jerry Falwell.
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Never watched 'Morning Crow'. First?
the Reverend Wright situation injected itself into the news cycle for sure,
'injected itself' -- what the fuck! apparently that video uploaded itself for repeated play; and booked all those yammering yakkers to discuss nothing but rev wright for weeks on end.
mika b is a liar and propagandist. but, then, that's why she's working for general electric's media outlet.
She should know better - please, the average IQ of talking heads on teevee has dropped considerably over the last 20 years. She is a moderately attractive mouthpiece for her corporate masters, nothing more.
morning joe is unwatchable and she is a major reason why. dillusional nit wit.
obama is toast!
I'll try to balance that out a little bit. Here's the paster McCain was begging to support him. John Hagee. Most Christians think that how you treat the poor says something about you. Jesus... "The least among us..." etc.
John Hagee on the other hand says. STARVE!!! Incredible these people fall for such miserable crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmFaNnRy40o
She sits quietly and lets joe and that pompous nitwit willie geist get away with shameless lies and exaggerations on a daily basis and now she's getting defensive? I think she dost protest too much.
"Obama has pushed earmarks to his church?"
WTF. Is this true?
And I hope I live long enough to see folks shut the fuck up about the religion of a candidate.
I can proudly say that I have never watched "Mornin Joe & Mika" but the difference in the story of Wright, Hagee and Paisley is that John McCrazy has probably never actually sat through one of their sermons, does not belong to either of their churches and is just pandering for the religious nutcase vote. Obama, OTOH, did belong to nutcase Wright's church for 20 years and did listen and have his children listen to that racist hateful crap and even named his book after one of Wright's sermons. Right or wrong, I do believe that this will be an issue for many people in the general election.
Bluesage @ 9:
Thank you for your concern.
"And I hope I live long enough to see folks shut the fuck up about the religion of a candidate."
A big Amen to that. I don't trust anyone that wears their religion on their sleeve. Some of the biggest jackasses I know go to church and seem to need to let everyone know about it.
Obviously not all church goers are a-holes.
I think that's mispelled , It should be morning " hoe". Just some bullshit that was left over from his breakfast he didn't eat.--CEO
Steve@7
She sits quietly.....
Mika is anything but quiet. She is constantly "posing" and "flirting" with any man who happens on the set. The only news she knows is what she reads off of the front pages of selected newspapers. Used to think Joe treated her badly but since he has been gone from the show I now realize that Mika is the one who is uninformed and probably deserved Joe's attitude.
BTW, where is Joe? They keep saying he will be back soon but he has been gone for quite awhile. I heard at one time he might be McShame's running mate. Any truth to this?
Mika is, well, human, and doesn't like anything that disagrees with her narrative. Sounds like a lot of us.
As to the whole "pastor-gate" nonsense, here's a thought: Senator Obama is getting the level of scrutiny that he's getting because he has the best chance of winning, at least right now. If anyone seriously thought that Senator McCain had a shot, we'd be hearing quite a lot more about his pastors, his wife's finances, etc. As well, there has been a constant rumor going around about President Clinton messing around whilst campaigning for his wife which gets the occaisional mention but nothing more. If Mrs. Clinton had a real shot at the Oval Office, we'd be deluged under an unending torrent of Lewinsky, Part 2.
The people pushing this stuff can read the writing on the wall just as well as anyone else. Senator Obama will become President Obama.
As to demanding a retraction, why bother? MSNBC will resist, finally Mika will give a mealy-mouthed non-apology, all for a show that hardly anyone watches. And no, going through YouTube clips doesn't count as watching.
Damn shame there aren't analytical tools that track subject discussions in the MSM programming. I guarantee that 90% of the discussion was devoted to Rev. Wright, maybe 10% to the RW nutbags, Hagee, Parsley, and Lieberman.
So, according to Brzezinski, the media (or at least she herself) covered Hagee and Wright equally, but the Wright story injected itself into the dialog?
And Rather pretty much summed up the media's attitude with Russert's idea: Like it or not, fair or not,
[Wright is] going to bewe're going to make Wright an issue.It's going to be usedWe will use it against Obama, and it will bemore effective against himrepeated more often than anything anybody says about McCain's supporters.jharp @ 8:
I disagree. I don't think we should "shut the fuck up" about a candidate's religion. I think it is possibly relevant to the decisions a candidate will make when in office. If our president genuinely believes that his god tells him to go to war, and that he will base his decisions on such a belief, we need to know what his beliefs actually are.
Myshiba @ 5:
If this is true then McShrub is stale toast.
Kerry @ 11:
but some are assholier than thou.
slippy hussein toad @ 10:
Well, Slippy, you can live in your little Obama world where nothing can touch you and see sunshine and clover all day, every day but that is not the real world. One of the problems with too many Obama supporters is that they think they live in a country of enlightened people. You do not! As a loyal Democrat I want desperately to win in Nov. but the Democratic Party seems hell-bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again. I will vote for Obama if I have to but I don't believe he will be successful in Nov. I hope I'm wrong but I've been voting for 40 years this year as a Democrat and I think we have some huge problems with this candidate.
[ Deleted. Posting in all Caps. Site Monitor]
Just imagine if all the attention being given to Obama's former church was given to McCain's lobbyists.
Bluesage @ 9:
Which is what makes McCain's relationships with his respective reverends WORSE!!!
Like each and every one of us, Obama has a close, personal, loving, quasi-familial tie with with a person who can be a political liability if all his beliefs and ideas are revealed. Obama has seen the man's good side, had witnessed him bringing a community together, and participated in a lot of the good he did. Might he have some kooky ideas along with that? Perhaps (though what really upsets people -- god damn America for the evils it commits abroad -- has been said by many revered people, even Martin Luther King, Jr.). But what really matters is whether that person will affect the policies Obama will pursue. There is no indication that Wright will be calling any shots in an Obama White House, or affecting decisions of war and peace. Obama is his own person, and has disagreements with an important person in his life. Just like all of us.
McCain, on the other hand, decided, purely for political purposes, to make some sort of Faustian bargain with people he decried as "agents of intolerance," a bargain whose details are as yet unknown. These people the "maverick" sought out and embraced genuinely yearn for the apocalypse. They desire wars in the Middle East in order to bring it about. They and their crazy acolytes do have influence on foreign policy, and now they've been dealing with McCain.
Perhaps plenty of American fools will think Jeremiah Wright is a genuine issue of concern. They're fools, and the media will do nothing do dispel their foolishness.
I'll tell you right now which relationship scares me more, though: McCain's! Hands down. No doubt about it.
They can't refute McClellan or defend McCain, so what else can they talk about?
Bluesage @ 19:
You're wrong. There, now you know. Problem solved. The earth can go on spinning again.
If Mika just learned how to stop laughing and gave more attention to real news she would realize that she is wrong.
I watched the show today, and I did not like MSNBC continuing pounding on this Obama church story,specially when Obama said he resigned from his church.
The story did not end there...Mika said:"Is Obama's decision politically motivated".
These are the people who were saying Omaba should end this and resign from his church..but they will never be happy, they want to continue dwelling on this story,while we have war,bad economic situation, big deficit, currency and oil problems they keep bringing this story of Obama's church in every day several times a day.
Enough of this fluff ..
MSNBC is not acccurate claiming that McCain is treated the same as Obama on this issue.
Give me a break !!
Haggee is a nut bag, no doubt about it. Wright is a nut bag no doubt about it. The real difference here, is that McCain sought an endorsement from someone who had a lot of votes in his corner, but he never went to Haggee's church. Obama sat there listening to Wright and Pfleger who were his moral guides, advisors and friends for 20 years! McCain immediately and unequivocally denounced Haggee after his rant. Obama took weeks to finally denounce Wright. So how were they supposed to talk about McCain and Haggee for weeks when it was a blip story? Wright was a major story and it isn't over yet! Obama is toast because he has spent 20 years being friends with an entire group of corrupt, racist, and Marxist morons.
She's also correct about the Wright issue injecting itself...Faux New's Sean Hannity had been talking about Wright being a radical racist for almost a year before the tapes hit youtube! How could they NOT cover the story when it was on everywhere?!?
FIFY
Very "clever" reply but completely devoid of substance and adds nothing to the conversation. But, thanks so much for cutting out one sentence [no personal attacks please. Sitemonitor]
The word 'harpy' was invented for this woman. And that's a 'bald-faced' truth.
alan @ 21:
Can I hear a Hallelujah!
I usually like Mika. I think frequently she is a nice foil for Joe's more outrageous wingnut leanings (he's gotten better, but he still has major lapses). However, since Joe's been on leave (he is a new father), she has been kind of weird on her own, really inconsistent and often insisting that a thing is news when it clearly isn't. The most egregious recent case was the first morning the Father Pfleger "story" "broke". She played the clip for Chris Matthews and he just laughed at it, said that it was Opera Buffa and a preacher being theatrical for a guest congregation and tried to change the subject. She kept interjecting, "Well, I think that flibbedy floo, and it's a thing." Once again Matthews showed his mettle as a newsman by literally laughing at her insistence that this is a story. I think she'll benefit from her guests not validating her concerns (about 50% of them change the subject real fast), and by Joe coming back so she can seem to be the reasonable one again. It's so not news and the only reason it keeps "being" news is cos they keep forcing the subject and noone wants to talk about it.
Let's demand the active voice.
The passive voice, without an actor, is the enemy of truth.
Sitemonitor, sorry. I don't suffer fools lightly. I'll try to be kinder and stay on topic.
I saw this this morning and almost spit. I sure hope they had a little meeting after the show and discussed this and the outright lie she spewed. How can they expect to have any credibility at all when they offer up such obvious bullshit. Anybody watching that show for any period of time KNOWS what she said was straight up bullshit. In the end it is about credibility. This gossip show has none!!
Thank you Logan for exposing this . And Mika needs to let go of the tee-hee laughing to cover for her stupidity.
On this subject the media was going to play a game of damned if you do and damned if you don't. You could see it coming.
Karen @ 22:
Bravo Karen. Very well said.
"Once again, Matthews showed his mettle as a newsman"!
LOL - Surely you jest!!
[Deleted, Please don't post in all Caps or in all bold lettering. It's Yelling. Thank You. Site Monitor]
OK here is the deal Wright WAS Obamas pastor... that is he went to that church for 17 plus years married him balh blah blah... and I am sure heard more then enough to make a decision about the tenor of Rev Wrights beliefs. McCain was not a member of the Hagee church. BIG DIFFERENCE! the Hagee endorsement came from a pastor who supports McCains politics. I am not sure if Wright even endorsed Obama but Obama was until very recently a member of the Church, but of course now that it is politically inappropriate for Obama to be a member well under the bus with the whole church....I sure hope nothing bad comes up about his wife or kids Obama will have to get a divorce in the middle of the campaign ,and don't think he wouldn't he threw his own grandma under the bus when it was to his poltical advantage to do so!
matthews tried to smack down mika for covering the story, last thursday morning. the powers that be, let her have her way (matthews covered it (even though it was a small piece) later in the day.)
Captain Bitter Elitist Husein Kangaroo @ 35:
OR - Obama stayed with Wright because he shares Wright's views and only disavowed him when it became uncomfortable politically.
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 37:
ok
so,
There is a religious test in america?
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#9 Bluesage,
Although I agree with you that Hagee and Parsely were not McCain pastors, just like Pastor Wright was Obama's pastor,I want to remind you that Obama never sought his church support in his campaign or endorsement of his pastor; Obama never tried to bring his church to his campaign.It is the media who did it.
But in the case of McCain,it was the opposite,McCain sought the endorsements of Pastors Hagee,Parsley and others to help his standing among voters.
He invited them and sought their endorsement..that's something the media is ignoring.
It is the politicizing of religion and mixing religion and politics by McCain.
POdVet @ 26:
Correct. Meaning McCain sought out the endorsements of people he decried as agents of intolerance, people who desire wars in the Middle East in order to expedite the apocalypse, in order to get their acolytes and sheep to vote for him. What did he have to do to get that endorsement? What did he promise them? What influence will they have on his presidency? Those are serious political questions no one is asking. And why not? Because he didn't sit in their pews? How absurd.
And thus it is also a legitimate issue to ask what influence they will have on his presidency. But Obama has consistently explained his positions. He has his own mind, and talks about how he disagrees with people who have been like family to him. But somehow it's more important than McCain's actively seeking the endorsements of "nut bags" just because he has had close relationships with them? Again, absurd. Backwards thinking.
No, he did not. He tried to pretend that there was no real problem, and essentially said that he didn't endorse all of Hagee's ideas, but that he was glad to have his endorsement. Occasionally, he pointed out that Hagee's take on Hurricane Katrina was "nonsense," but continued to accept the endorsement. Then he obfuscated for a while. Finally, he rejected the endorsement.
He disagreed with Wright's statements immediately, but explained that he could not denounce Wright himself because he'd been "like family" to him. Do you have anyone in your life whose more silly ideas would be a political liability for you if you ever ran for office? Would it be hard to denounce someone who has been like family? After all, as you pointed out, a difference between McCain's relationship and Obama's is that the former is purely political, while the other involves close, personal interaction. The former is the one that should scare you.
Furthermore, Obama's speech on race relations -- the one prompted by Wright's statements -- was inspiring. We should be focusing on that, for it shows Obama's true ideas, and how they differ from Wright's. At this point, I honestly don't know what "maverick" McCain thinks about foreign policy and wars, since he has gladly embraced everything he once denounced, including "agents of intolerance" who yearn for war.
A couple decades ago, dandruff-fighting shampoo Head and Shoulders ran a series of ads in which the following conversation occurred:
McCain/Hagee was a "blip story" because they didn't talk about it for weeks.
POdVet @ 26:
You're just wrong. It took weeks for McCain to denounce what Hagee said. He never did denounce Hagee himself. I for one don't think every Sean Hannity obsession is newsworthy. Perhaps you do and that's why you're PO'd.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Randy - You are absolutely right about that but what does that change? It could be that one of the main reasons Obama did not want to bring Wright into the spotlight is that he knew his views would be unacceptable to most voters. And I am sure that Obama did not want the media to shine a spotlight on him but just thinking they wouldn't doesn't show very good judgement just like staying with that church didn't show very good judgement. Even Oprah, the woman who gave us James Frey and Dr. Phil, ugh, had the good sense to leave that church after a couple of years.
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if there wasn't a religious test in america, we wouldn't have to entertain who's pastor said what...
if there wasn't a religious test in america, we wouldn't have to defend what a pastor said...
if there wasn't a guilt by association in america, we wouldn't have to entertain who's pastor said what...
if there wasn't a guilt by association in america, we wouldn't have to defend and justify what pastors say.
entertain away...
defend and justify it...
imagine, a country that actually lets you believe in a higher power of YOUR choice...
imagine, a country that believes in a separation of church from the state...
imagine, a country that actually focuses on facts, principles and rights...
IMAGINE IT!
.[Thank You Max. :) Site Monitor]
Bluesage @ 40:
If all Obama had said was, "I reject and denounce him now. End of story." I might agree with you. That, after all, is how McCain is handling Hagee, and anyone can simply denounce anyone while running for office.
Instead, Obama responded with one of the most detailed and insightful speeches on race relations in a long time. Obama has also explained how he has agreed and disagreed with Wright in the past, and what he thinks now. In fact, he explained that he couldn't denounce Jeremiah Wright the man, even if he disapproves of what he said. Naturally, though, that's not enough for the unthinking, ugly American and his media. It's too nuanced.
Obama has shown that he has his own mind, and has explained his own stances on issues. You can believe the worst, if you want, but it makes a lot more sense to worry about McCain's relationships.
Nevertheless, the media conflates the two as though they, and everyone in that church, share a hive mind.
This whole controversy is absurd. And I'm not all that wild about Obama anyway. My candidate(s) dropped out long ago.
Spin, span, spun.
Quit doing the meta crap with the MSM.
Say what you think
Do what you say
And get on with it
Bluesage @ 45:
I'll agree with you on that. Obama should have known that his relationship with Wright would surface. He should have anticipated it politically.
woodguy @ 44:
I may be wrong about this but wasn't it Hagee who withdrew his endorsement of McSame. McLame didn't renounce Hagee's endorsement. I'm probably wrong about this but...
That damn Mika running her yap again?
I'll tell ya what, she belongs in either the kitchen or the bedroom, tending to her womanly duties, I know this cause my pastor said so.
Karen @ 47:
.
The republicans have the Democrats right where they want them...
Notice how Obama dropped out of his church? at the insistence of and response to the republican outcry.
How high will Obama jump when the republicans cry "JUMP!" He flushed 20 years down the drain to appease the Whaaahhhpublicans...
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Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 46:
Everything you have asked us to imagine is wonderful. The paragraph that preceded it is another story.
Guilt by association is indeed pernicious and wrong. But the views of a candidate's mentor or adviser is hardly off-limits as a political issue. If that person has influenced or will influence the candidate when in office, we need to know about him or her. There's nothing wrong with that.
Furthermore, the "no religious test" clause means that no individual is disqualified from serving in the government merely because he is of a particular faith or no faith. It does not mean that voters cannot or should not investigate a candidate's religious beliefs, and it better not come to be understood as such by the American populace. After all, Pat Robertson ran for president in 1988, and didn't fare too poorly in some Republican primaries. You really think we shouldn't be questioning how his religion will affect his policies?
Bluesage @ 40:
Or: Obama saw his pastor as a leader of his church--maybe his confidant and his friend--but NOT his MIRROR. And he disavowed him when it became clear that media obsession with a few of the pastor's words created an environment that was not beneficial for the congregation, the pastor, and the candidate.
Just another possibility of many...
Mika said.
"Obama has pushed earmarks to his church?"
WTF. Is this true?
Hate to repetitive but does anyone know if this is true?
Karen @ 53:
Karen,
I don't mean to split hairs but...
So, Obama can't think for himself and therefore any associates of his needs to scrupiously inspected and turned inside out, to the point of mischaracterization?
And about that religious test, I thought that Americans were free to believe in, or not, a higher power AND not be penalized for it, EITHER WAY...
Remember, God did NOT create America for Christians and America is NOT a Christian State...
But I dream...
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jharp @ 55:
When they were accusing him of being a muslim, he had to refer to the church to quell the rumors.
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 52:
The Republicans are on the verge of imploding. Obama can still run a great campaign. (So could Clinton if she were to receive the nomination.)
The Republican outcry? The Republicans and half the Democratic Party as well. This surfaced in the primaries, after all. The Republicans would have been much happier to let the issue lie until Obama had received the nomination at the convention.
People are stupid, so indeed, this will be an issue no matter what Obama does. It doesn't mean he can't win.
If we all play our cards right, they'll have little authority to command Obama at all. No one is immune to Republican smears, and the media will cover the Wright story relentlessly. If it weren't Wright, it would have been something else. If there weren't something else, it would have been made up. And it wouldn't matter if it were Obama or Clinton or Edwards or Patton or Jesus on our ticket. It's just the way it goes.
So, this story has been blown out of proportion, and Obama decided -- partly for his own political reasons and partly for the sake of the church itself -- to separate from it. Personally, I'd rather Obama didn't go to church at all. But, it hardly follows that he'll be at the Republicans' beck and call once in the White House.
Karen @ 43:
fastfeat @ 54:
Or, if taken in context Wright was correct in what he was saying. Of course when you take bits and pieces of anything you can make it look any way you want. I happen to agree with what I know about what Wright was talking about but what Wright was actually talking about had a lot of merit.
[Deleted, double post. Site Monitor]
I have a question for all the people TREMBLING in their pants about Obama’s pastor (this is this elections, “I invented the internet”, you could have a beer with Bush mindless diversion, and it always works because people don’t think for themselves): Is voting against Obama for this going to be nullified by McCain POLICIES (I’m old fashioned I guess, I kind of think that things like the economy, healthcare, foreign policy, etc. are a little more important than a PR created fake controversy)? Ok, you vote against Obama and Wright isn’t near the White House, but McCain’s healthcare policy doesn’t do anything to reduce costs or increase availability. Is that a fair trade in your mind? How about ending the war or not starting one worse with Iran? Fair trade off? Continuation of “free trade”? Yeah, you won’t have a job and your wages will continue to decline, but Wright won’t be NEAR the White House? Do you understand how stupid this logic is?
Where were all you people & the press when Bush was getting endorsements from violent, crazy right wing preachers? Oh, that's right, you weren’t being TOLD to be outraged. I get it now.
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religion = wedge issue
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Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 56:
Actually, I explained that Obama can, and will, think for himself, thereby dispelling the notion that we need to be concerned about his associates.
Jeremiah Wright's views are a legitimate matter of concern to the extent that Obama shares them, or will be influenced by him as president. Obama has successfully demonstrated that he is his own person, and will not be influenced by Wright as president. Obama is his own person.
Of course. Freedom of religion is one of the sacred natural rights on which our country is based.
That doesn't mean I can't question the religious views of a candidate, and how they will affect his or her policies.
No disagreement here. But you must realize that if you interpret the "no religious test" clause to mean that you can't question a candidate about his religious views when deciding whether to vote for him, then you make it off limits to question whether the candidate's religion requires him to impose his religion, by law, on you.
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We’ve had two decades of right wing preachers doing things like calling for the killing of presidents in other countries, blaming 9/11 (where thousands of Americans lost their lives) on sexual orientation & abortion, profiting off of religion and aligning themselves with dictators like Charles Taylor and these crazies had close ties to the Republican Party (one of them ran for president in the party and had solid backing). Now, the same crazies back McCain and you want to use Wright as an excuse to vote for your own spot in the poor house, because that’s what McCain’s policies will do. Simply amazing. I usually stick up for Americans when people say they’re stupid, it’s getting harder and harder to do so. The elites in the media think you’re dumb and they appear to be right, they CAN play you like a puppet.
POdVet @ 59:
liberAL @ 13:
This is the fourth week Joe has been out, supposedly waiting on a baby. Sounds strange, he probably voted against the FMLA bill.
No way he could be McShames running mate, he carries too much baggage due to the dead intern found in his Florida office when he was a congressman.
Grr.....formatting....
Karen @ 66:
First, I feel sorry for your brother that you would disown him for his drug addiction. I have plenty of family members with whom I disagree vehemently on political and moral issues. They are nevertheless and nonetheless my family, and I love them. Perhaps it is easy for you to disown your family. I surmise that most people have a harder time.
More importantly, however, your understanding of Jeremiah Wright appears to be based solely on superficial sound bites, and your lack of concern about Hagee's possible influence on McCain's foreign policy is profoundly naive.
Pepper @ 65:
You seem to get it Pep. You probably wonder, like I do, why the opposition can't grasp it.
About Mika: isn't her father (as in dad, not as in pastor) an Obama advisor?
Karen,
What I'm ashamed of is that as a Nation, WE, the People, are letting the foundations of this country slip under our foot.
Separation of Church and State is now about finding the Muslim and disallowing him/her from holding office. Notice Keith Ellison and most recently the baseless assertion of Obama's Islamic background. Hell, there IS a portion of the populace that still believes Obama is a Muslim. IF we stayed true to the notion of a separate Church and State, religion wouldn't be informing our politics. But that is NOT what we have... now is it?
You gave a good example of that intertwined THEOCRACY, Pat Robertson. I am just as concerned for America now as I was then. Instead of playing into that THEOCRATIC canard, "America is a Christian Nation" and, "therefore what you're pastor says matters, and it matters that your pastor IS Christian," ... this IS a test... by We the PEOPLE.
Question:
How can we not play into this canard?
Because each time someone has to justify, react, and defend, they legitimize questioning of presidential candidates' pastors, they legitimize the concept that, America is a Christian Nation... "Oh really, well your pastor said 'God Damned America'"
I want my right to be an American, back!
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Captain Bitter Elitist Husein Kangaroo @ 69:
If by "the opposition," you mean Republicans, well, too many of them agree with the right wing preachers.
The Talibaptists are legion in the U.S., and hope to infiltrate all levels of government in order to establish a Christian Republic. They've had a lot of success infiltrating the military, which is terrifying.
Henry Binks @ 70:
Yes he's an Obamanista.
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 71:
I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying.
Let me put it to you this way: Mike Huckabee said that the Constitution ought to be brought into line with the living god. Then, when questioned about what he really meant, and what his beliefs about the living god really were, he tried to cry out against the religious test being imposed on him. Do you agree that such questions mark an unconstitutional religious test on a candidate?
I'll say it again: The views of a candidate's pastor or adviser or confidant or whoever is legitimate only to the extent that that person will influence the candidate when in office. Period. End of story.
Captain Bitter Elitist Husein Kangaroo @ 60:
Agreed. I too thought what Wright said was spot on, and when Obama gave his speech on race, I felt he addressed his relationship with Wright in an honest and respectful manner. Too bad so many Americans could not see it through their racism. I think the fact that more people couldn't accept that speech for what I heard it as was a sign that this whole thing was not going to end well for all parties involved. Sadly, I was proven correct.
The progressive blogs covered the Pastor Hagee story so the corporate main stream traditional media (cmstm) could no longer ignore it otherwise they would have brushed it under the mat. I know how much Katie, Brian and whoever that shill is on FOX lite ABC covered it compared to Rev. Wright which was very little if at all.
Karen @ 74:
so,
there IS a religious test in America?
When you have the people informing the Government, you have a Democracy.
When you have the Church informing the Government, you have a Theocracy.
Currently, America is shading toward a Theocratic Nation...
I happen to think ANY political candidate should NOT have religious advisers. Period, end of story. :P
.
I watch Morning Joe regularly and my wife can attest to my disgust at Mika's "balanced" coverage. She is milking this story ad naseum. I turn the channel to ESPN as soon as she starts. This is the same hempkin that 'made a stand' against the Britney Spears coverage.
As Moe from 'Slap Shot' said when watching a soap opera at a bar with the rest of the Chiefs, "that C#@T is no good."
Pepper @ 62:
Thank You. Most of these people expressing their faux outrage on this forum over Wright are embittered Hillary supporters, hopefully soon they can get over themselves once she finally admits shes toast.
Has anyone out there considered that this whole thing with everybody's pastor MIGHT be yet another reason why there should be a separation between CHURCH and STATE?
I thought not.
A potential solution to this situation can be found in the movie "Network"....remember?
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 46:
Not bad Max. John Lennon said it a little better and went a little farther but not bad at all.
Karen @ 74:
Multi-tasking again Karen? Making points and sense. Rock on Lady.
The Rev Wright coverage was absolutely atrocious. I've can't recall when I saw a story so blatantly biased. Hagee and all the other right wing religious wack jobs, and their Republican supporters have been given a free pass.
Embittered-Max-Hussein-1 @ 77:
Well, I certainly won't disagree with you that candidates shouldn't have religious advisers. Heck, I'd be happy if they stopped having religion altogether. :)
But that's my view. And I have no right to impose it on anyone else. I believe in the freedom of religion.
As for the religious test clause, it means that no one is disqualified from holding office because of his or her religion. That is, the fact that Kieth Ellison is a Muslim does not disqualify him from being a Congressman; the fact that Pat Robertson is an religious whack job does not disqualify him from being president; the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon does not disqualify him from being president; the fact that Tom Cruise is a Scientologist does not disqualify him from being a Senator; and the fact that I'm an atheist doesn't disqualify me.
However, that none of that means that voters can't inquire about the religious beliefs of any of us if we actually do run for office. And our religious beliefs are relevant to the discussion to the extent, and only to the extent, that they will affect our policies.
Take Jimmy Carter. He's an evangelical Christian. Does that disqualify him from being president? Of course not. Would it stop me from voting for him? Not at all. Because Jimmy Carter shares many of my political views, and believes in the separation of church and state, just like I do.
Now take John Hagee. Does his religion disqualify him from being president? Nope. Do his religious views make me not want to vote for him? You better believe it! Because he's a man who believes that his religion requires him to make religious laws. He would impose his religion on you and me, and he'd use the powers of the government to do so. To inquire about his religion, and to base a decision not to vote for him because of it is not a "religious test" in the sense the Constitution uses the term. If it were, any candidate could refuse to answer any of our questions on the grounds that his views on the matter are informed by his religion.
As for the separation of church and state, I support it more than most people. How can I make such a statement? Well, I think the anti-polygamy statutes that prevent Mormons from having multiple marriages violate the separation of church and state. Most people I meet disagree with me. I think our laws against prostitution, gambling and host of consensual activities are fundamentally anti-liberty and violate the separation of church and state, since they are manifestation of religious sensibilities and nothing else.
You'll get no more impassioned defender of the First Amendment than me. And for that very reason, I reserve the right to inquire about a candidate's religion. If that candidate supports the separation of church and state, and agrees with my politics, I couldn't care less about her religion. If, however, that candidate's religion demands that he start wars in the Middle East to bring about Armageddon, I'm not voting for her. And I'm withholding my vote for that reason.
Obama's pastor can talk,dance, jump and scream in his church as he was portraid as a mad man by the media..he and the other white pastor who was invited to Trinity Church..
They can both jump and scream..but there is no evidence that they influenced Obama's vote in the Senate.
Yet Hagee,Parsley and all these religious Rights have a lot of influence on Congress votes and on the administration's decisions.
Our foreign policy in the Middle East is influenced by these people so much. This is what all citizens should care about.
This is what the media should explain to the public....
Hagee wants his Bible's interpretation to influence our Middle Eastern policy..he even went more to encourage war with Iran...
This is the big difference between Obama's pastor and these religious Rights pastors who want ,not only to influence our foreign policy, but also our whole legal system and selecting of judges to suit them.
Pastor Hagee, Parsley whom Americans should be concerned about indeed.
I would have choked on my coffee if I was drinking any. It was indeed a blatant lie. She really belongs on Fox news with her posturing and flirting. It is really disturbing so early in AM. Her father is for Obama I would love be at those family dinners.
She has been around Joe Scumbag too much.
Morning Joe was the conservative reaction by MSNBC to the IMUS affair. The producers sold a conservative base show to MSNBC and that is what they deliver. If Joe is gone and Grandpa Pat is not avail then Mika fills the bill.and her tone has turned to the right substantially since Joe has gone....obviously trying to steal the show..
Yes Joe and his producers and little Willie ran and reran and reran the wright story....and the bowling....and this new guy. Mika has decided to play with the boys and it is a shame.
One woman you will never see on the show is the smart one...Dr Maddow.... they dare not risk bringing her on and proving the idea that the Morning Joe staff is still in 3rd grade. They have even reduced Erin's 830 spot to just a couple of minutes because she makes the boys look dumb.
sure......like anything can "inject itself into the news cycle" who is she kidding?
I kinda like what Wright said. A tad strident but stripped of a lot of bourgeois niceties. Hagee, on the other hand, is a psychopath wrapped in Judeo-Christian mythology, trying desperately to prop up a sick, shallow core of insecurity and self-loathing. I'd have a beer with Wright and I'd present Hagee with a few books that he likely hasn't read (Dawkins, Voltaire, Einstein, Churchill, Fanon, etc., etc.).
Whoops... forgot to add that the beer would be quaffed and the books would be unread.
Did Mika make the statement about how fair and balanced their coverage of the two pastors was before or as the ground opened up and swallowed her?
I use to really have a lot of respect for Mika but she has allowed Joe to destroy her credibility and she seems incapable of getting it back even while he has been out on Maternity Leave
She constantly thinks she has a scoop.... Last Thursday or Friday Chris Matthews made her look like an idiot when she brought up the catholic pastor incident at Senator Obama former Church... he wonder what was the story and she looked like a fool.....
Mika if you want to work at Fox News just say so; right now you are appearing to fit right on in with the women who are employed there.
God What happen to you….
i had the same immediate response this morning when i watched this, the only way i see this as reasonable is if mika meant they covered pfelger and McCain's pastors equally, however unlikely that might seen. Otherwise yes it is a complete outright lie about fair coverage concerning the candidates and their religious relations
On the morning that the second pastor eruption broke, Mika played this at the top of the 8amEDT hour and pushed it as Obama's latest controversy. She then had Chris Matthews on (not in the studio), who hadn't seen it. Mika replayed it for him, and Matthews reaction was essentially, "Where's the story?" Mika, who seemed a bit off-guard, pressed Matthews with, "So you're saying that the story won't be the lead story on your show tonight?" Matthews responded by saying that the Scott McLellan revelations were more newsworthy than that. Mika got very defensive, saying that she had seen how voters in other states had responded to the Reverend Wright issue, but Tweety wasn't buying it.
Also, on another morning last week (or two), I recall Mika telling a Clinton surrogate (probably Loni Davis--pardon my spelling) that Hillary Clinton had waged a wonderful campaign. That's so sweet--it's almost like she's become the female Joe Scarborough. All she needs to do now is chat up the female weather anchor, comment on the attire of CNBC's morning anchor-woman, and defend Joseph McCarthy and she'll be the perfect copy of that right-wing sleeze.
Let's face it. If you were to choose which minister's church you'd attend, whose would it be? Rev. Wright is so much more thought-provoking, entertaining, intelligent, and charismatic than Hagee, who comes off as just a bitter, hateful man. So why wouldn't the MSM play and replay Rev. Wright's most shocking moments?
Mika's moniker is GIGGLES!
The woman has truly lost her integrity and certainly lowered her intelligence level
since she began working with Joe Scumborough.
This morning she was no different than on any other day. SHE WAS AWFUL!
Bluesage @ 9:
One man's ceiling is another's man's floor. Wright did't spout "racist" crap. He told the truth on the basis of theology. You know, treat others...etc. I prefer Karma as an explanation as to why what the U.S. has done in the name of manifest destiny, they are starting to pay some of the price for such inhuman behaviors. White people just can't take criticism in general. It hurts, I know, but you will never be the better for it it you don't acknowledge the problem. I support Obama. I give him money. It's a stragtegic stance. I do not want any more Supreme Court justices selected by rightist idiots. I think his new found criticisms of Wright are pure bullshit, but hey, that's politics. When you see the world through other than white eyes, altered by formal and informal life educational experiences, you can understand why the rest of the world doesn't have a positive view of a lot of things thar are "uniquely American." Even the term "American" has been appropriated. Are the South Americans "Americans?"
This show has gone down the tubes with only Micha on. She is a mirror of Chris Matthews when she makes such "catty" remarks against Hillary.
She like Matthews will not let pass any opportunity to bash Hillary. I think she is super jealous of how smart Hillary is. Micha has always gotten by with her looks and her family's name. She is not very smart and doesn't appear to know much about the news.
I can now understand why Joe gets so frustrated with her. She only flirts and talks about her summers with IMPORTANT people in the Hamptons.
Get her off that show. At least, Joe has started being more fair in his commentary.
Bluesage @ 19:
yes, we know, he's black, you'll get over it, and so will more than enough people to put him in the White House. Barack will be the next president.
This is why Americans are turning away from network "news" shows. These are the same people that gave George Bush a pass after he went AWOL from his Texas Air National Guard unit, a crime that should have instantly disqualified him as a presidential candidate. Instead, they turned around and smeared Al Gore as a liar on a cooked up story about the internet. Then they did the same thing to John Kerry in 2004. At every turn these freeeks have done the bidding of their corporate masters, who have conspired with the BushCo crime syndicate to seize power and drain all the wealth out of America.
Mission Accomplished, assholes. If George Bush is the worst president ever, then what about the media that deliberately hid the truth about this corrupt, maniacal moron from the American people?
Worst. Media. Ever.
Morning Joe is a terrible, awful, unwatchable show. I used to watch it and stopped, and I feel much better about life without Scarborough's unending blowhard routine and Mika's giggly little girl thing. she's actually a very smart person, its hard to watch her act like such a meek tool of Joe and Willie Geist, whoever the hell he is. what is Geist's field of expertise anyways? he sounds like Beavis to Joe's Butthead. if Mika has reached the point of not being able to tell that the Rev. Wright story has been covered infinitely more than the endorsements McCain personally sought out, knowing full well that the right wing crazies he was courting were 1) people he had already denounced, but then decided to pursue for purely political reasons 2) people saying that Americans caused 9/11, and not bad foreign policy decisions which caused blowback, as Rev. Wright was so universally vilified for saying, but gays, liberals, feminists - in these insane pastor's minds, "God" was represented on earth by muslim terrorists, and they were doing a just thing - combatting "evils" that those particular pastors had hang-ups about. John McCain personally sought out the endorsements of people who had said these things, and worse.
folks, these things are far, far worse than even the most ignorant things Wright said. "gays caused Katrina", no matter how you slice it, is FAR WORSE and MUCH CRAZIER of a thing to say than that the US govt caused AIDS to target black people, which is a quite crazy thing to believe. "feminists caused 9/11" is a far more insane thing to believe than anything Rev. Wright said. and for the last time, Wright never said anything 'racist'. name one damn thing. he talks about cultural differences, yes, but always specifies directly that he believes differences are just that, not an indication that one race is 'worse' than another.
would all of you lazy, white motherf**kers (yes I'm white, I'm just not intellectually lazy like most white people) get off the damn couch and do so learning? and stop being so afraid. when black people talk about the injustice of racism, they are not condemning ALL white people when they do it!!! just the ones who act to oppress them. if you find yourself taking extreme offense when a black person talks about the injustices done to black people in America - well, you probably have some self-examining to do. if what the person says doesn't apply to you, then guess what, they're not talking to or about you! Rev. Wright is a silly individual, and also a tremendous intellectual, who believes an assortment of untrue things which reflect on his upbringing and his more direct experience with racism, which makes crazier things more plausible, since he's seen more of the worst of human behavior than most of us have. that doesn't excuse him saying some untrue things. but nothing he says comes anywhere near the level of crazy that Hagee, Parsley, Robertson and Falwell say on a regular basis. these are truly hateful people. Wright is a goof and a bit of a confused individual, but he seems quite full of love to me.
Did I hear the broadcasting icon Dan Rather say ". . . what one must look at when covering politics is how does it play?" This is a staggering comment from an educated man -- I would think that it is the case -- and one who should be well versed in the various political systems and the principles upon which each is based. In a democracy, which is not an ideology because it does not require the citizen to be passive as is the case with all other ideologies including Marxism, socialism, fascism and totalinarianism, politics is not about "playing". That is the jargon of the systems, public relations shill who sees everything as image, character and trust. Politics in a democracy is about the citizens as a collective acting in a disterested way in all facets of society with the goal of establishing, nurturing and fighting for the public good, a.k.a., the common weal. It is not pretty, linear, blessed by saints, polite, comforting, conformist or efficient. However, it is the best form of governance in that it requires for reason, memory, common sense, imagination, intuition and ethics. This was the message of the Enlightenment philosophers, the founding fathers in the U.S. and the fathers of confederation in Canada. Rather is both ignorant and a buffoon and should be ashamed of himself.
But but but
But I'm A BLONDE!
She's right.
Twenty years in the same church that "forged his character and he quits when it becomes a "distraction"??
Hope...Change?
Wimp. Coward.
onceler @ 102:
Really? If Obama is afraid of it, why shouldn't we be?
fastfeat @ 29:
I'l give you an Amen!
Of course, Hagee's insults against gays and Catholics went underreported for weeks, but it was the quotes about the Jews that sent him flying from the campaign. So its ok for someone to insult anybody except a swing group. -noted.
Good for simpleton ratings.....these people are professional tabloid regurgatators. If they talk real issues real substance they will lose their audience. Right now not easy dividing the country...which is what they want to do........contraversey greed,hate,jealousy and envy. I can't watch too over the top.
These balls-for-brains idiots can't stand to have someone shed daylight on their poor journalistic work.
*
Myshiba @ 5:
No - but he's a nice shade of soft cocoa. Lovely!!
*
Is it a new baby or ............. Rehab? ...........I'm just sayin'.............
As a white person that is not a big church goer.
If I find myself in Chicago with some time, I would enjoy going to a sermon at Obama's church. Great entertainment.
On the other hand, If in hagee land, I would not waste my time with all his rvelations to the end of times and how his whiteness is the superior surviving being by the hand of his Jesus. I say his Jesus because his is a very different Lord that is in the New testament.
Without a doubt. The media has had a canival of fun at Obama's pastor expense because the GOP does not want to alow another political party to confront and engage religious people. They are supposed to be exclusive religious voting blocks for the GOP only. And the media enables this fantasy.
Mika B. is living proof that monkeys can be taught to speak!
Bluesage @ 9:
"...racist hateful crap.."
Now, you're entitled to disagree with what Reverend Wright says, but can you point out some of this "racist hateful crap" you allege in your post, because I haven't heard any. What I have heard is a man angry about the state of affairs in this country, and actually had the audacity to say something about it.
This is an issue in the general election because many in this country like to pretend that our past didn't happen, and that those of a darker hue should just be happy that we are even allowed on the bus, nevermind where the seats are.
I agree with jharp@8. To all of you believers in democracy, I ask you where in the Constitution is there a section,clause or sub-clause with a religious requirement for becoming POTUS?
Bluesage @ 9:
Be that as it may, Sen. Obama never - NEVER - sat in the pew while Rev. Wright was giving one of his tirades.
Whereas McCain actively - ACTIVELY - sought the endorsements of Hagee & Parsley for over ONE FULL YEAR while he either knew, or should have known, of their outrageous hateful and bigoted remarks - both caught on tape and in books they wrote.
morning jo(K)e
Mika lost all (if she ever had any) journalistic integrity when she took a second chair to THE SCAR.
(The above conclusion is brought ot you by the good people at GUILT BY ASSOCIATION.)
Is she deaf in that one ear? She has everything but a tin horn stuck in it.
Who watches these biased, Right Wing-nut morons anymore ? Never could stomach the lies on these Reslug comedies.
mika is a freaking idiot. she needs to put down her blackberry, go back to the burbs' and take her kids to soccer practice.
The MSM/commercial/Big media is a a propaganda instrument of fascists. Why the shock that they are doing all in their power to manipulate Americans into supporting the fascist agenda? They are in the business solely to disserve America. No other reason. Of course they're running this particular scam, along with countless others. They are liars. They are manipulators. That's what they do.
Nobody should be surprised by that at this point. they've been manipulating this election cycle since it first got rolling. They are going to continue doing so. They want a fascist or a fascist-symmpathizing puppet in the WH, and they are pulling out all stop to make sure it happens.
I wouldn't believe these guys if they told me the sky was blue.
POdVet @ 26:
Actually, McCain denounced the comments but, said he still welcomed the endorsement. In fact, it took several weeks and Hagee claiming that Hitler was doing God's will (when persecuting and killing Jewish people to force them back to Israel) before McCain finally renounced him.
Over a 30+-year career, Hannity and crew could only come up with about 30 seconds of material on Wright. Hagee has a LOT more than this to go off.
This is why I see this as worse.
McCain knew what he was walking into and did it anyway. He had called pastors like this "agents of intolerance" when he ran before but, went running to them this time. He had plenty of time to vet the people from whom he sought endorsements. So, when McCain speaks of judgment, I have to question it. It's like the story of the frog and the scorpion -- McCain clearly knew what he was dealing with when he picked Hagee up so, he can't act surprised that he got stung.
Mika is adorable. I'm sorry, does she actually talk on that show? I didn't notice.
/sexism
Dan Rather : "It’s going to be an issue. I was interested to hear my friend Tim Russert say earlier, that, 'like it or not, fair or not, it’s going to be an issue. It’s going to be used against Obama and it will be more effective against him than anything anybody says about McCain supporters.'”
But Mr. Rather didn't point out that it's an issue that will be used by the press, not because any thinking voter gives a fuck, but because has-beens and hacks like Rather and Russert think it's not only fair, but relevant. Gas. Mortgage. War. Education. Health. The crumbling infrastructure. Jobs. The missing salmon. The toxic toys. The increasing UVA factor in my sunscreen. Mad cow brains in my burgers. Three-headed frogs. No more flights to Hawaii.
Those are issues. A couple of bitter, aging hippies flapping their dashikis and peacebeads in church - not an issue.
Damn, I used to like Dan Rather so much. I always thought he got a raw deal, and that he appeared to be a liberal because the truth tends to be liberal, and not because of his ideology. It's sad to see him sucking up for a chance at renewed relevancy.
Uh, perhaps I should say that at this very moment I am wearing a dashiki and peacebeads, and they are flapping. But I sort of detoured from hippyism to punkdom back in the mid-70s, so technically, I am an aging punk rocker.
Bluesage @ 9:
Obamas pastor should be covered more because its HIS pastor. "McCains pastors" just endorsed him; he wasnt a member of their churches for 20 years.
btw Mika Brezinski is an Obama supporter, so using her as an example of bias against Obama is laughable.
Jonesy @ 127:
The only thing laughable is the fact that you think McCain's cynical grab for votes from "pastors" like Hagee and Parsley is somehow less obnoxious than something a pastor said on one particular Sunday. McCain sought their support for purely political reasons. He got in bed with them and whored himself out to the christian right in a self-serving way.
Separation of church and state. Period.
Let's deal with issues, not sound bites.
Hey, they don't call it the "McMedia" for nothing!
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