BREAKING: Two Top AF Officers Forced Out
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NY Times: (reg. req'd.)
The Air Force's senior civilian official and its highest-ranking general were ousted by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates on Thursday following an official inquiry into the mishandling of nuclear weapons and components, senior Pentagon officials said.
The Air Force secretary, Michael W. Wynne, and the service's chief of staff, Gen. T. Michael Moseley, were forced to resign after the inquiry found that both leaders were responsible for "systematic and cultural failings in how the Air Force carried out its important mission to assure the security of the nation's nuclear arsenal," according to a senior Pentagon officials.
Never before has a defense secretary ousted both a service secretary and a service chief, according to senior Pentagon officials. Since taking office 18 months ago, Mr. Gates has made accountability of theme of his tenure. He has also fired senior Army officials, after disclosures of shoddy conditions at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, the service's premier medical facility for wounded soldiers.
The inquiry involving the Air Force was an effort to determine how four high-tech electrical nosecone fuses for Minuteman nuclear warheads were sent to Taiwan in place of helicopter batteries. The mistake was discovered in March - a year and a half after the erroneous shipment.
Most troubling, the senior Pentagon official said, was that little had been done to improve the security of the nuclear weapons infrastructure after it was disclosed last year that the Air Force unknowingly let a B-52 bomber fly across the United States carrying six armed nuclear cruise missiles.
What a sad world it is when one HOPES that these officers are being forced out for incompetently handling nuclear weapons, and NOT actually being forced out in preparation for an attack on Iran.
I think the headline is wrong.
I don't think the AF secretary should be called an 'officer.' In this context the term seems like it is referring to active duty military personnel.
yo
Albatross @ 1:
It's not being paranoid if they really are after you. We now live in a country where you can't trust those who run the show. What does that say about this administration?
Albatross @ 1:
Strange - you'd expect that heads would roll from a little further down the ladder in these circumstances.
"The inquiry involving the Air Force was an effort to determine how four high-tech electrical nosecone fuses for Minuteman nuclear warheads were sent to Taiwan in place of helicopter batteries. The mistake was discovered in March - a year and a half after the erroneous shipment."
Huh. If I tried to put a fuse where a battery goes I think I'd discover the error immediately.
Albatross - that was the first thing that came to my mind as well when I saw this headline earlier today - they are being forced out because they oppose an attack on Iran, which many have suggested will be an air-only affair. We can't be sure of the real reason for the firings - the only thing we can be sure of is that the official explanation ain't it, and hasn't been for a long, long time...
Who needs terrorists.
We're gonna blow ourselves up.
stunning
their trying to scare me with al queda......i have to fear my own team
You can't make this shit up. Sent them to Taiwan thinking they were batteries? Why are B-52's ever just flying around with armed nukes, let alone over the US? You'd think the pilot would've radioed in and said "oh, do you really want me to take a left a Albuequerque?"
Just imagine the fake outrage from the reich-wingers if this happened under Clinton's watch
we should take this to the top oh.....yeah that's bush commander in chief.......we can't seem to make anything stick on him
It is amazing how the mainstream media covers up for this administration...the reasons those nukes did not go to Taiwan was because China called Bush and told him don't you dare or we pull the plug on your debt and send your dollar crashing...nobody wants that so Cheney's brilliant plan had to be overturned...you need to go to GNN to get the real news! Of course somebody needs to take the blame...loyal soldiers will always fall on their swords for their sick pervert leaders!
If they were using this story to force these guys out wouldn't they have chosen something a little different than this? Maybe not if they want to take away any confidence we have in them if they speak out about something later on down the road.
Boy, doesn't that give me a warm and fuzzy. Why the hell are there any armed nukes flying anyway?
So what's that make the over/under date for an air assault . . 8/15?
The real question is, are there serious concerns that this lawless administration will somehow thwart the process of presidential succession if McCain does not win the election? Is this an administration that intends to maintain power by any and all means?
Blue Lensman @ 4:
No. Only if it is alleged torture, do heads roll from the bottom.
bigmike601 @ 15:
You never know when you might have to blow some shit up
Blue Lensman @ 16:
I'll take 9/11 for $100, Alex...
I guess the first interview question for getting a Bush admin job is: Can you guarantee me that you can show yourself to be a completetly incompetent blithering moron and endanger other people while doing so? If yes, YOU'RE HIRED!
Recent developements about these firing suggest re; The Wayne Madson Report .. that both these people in the Airforce were establishing another nuclear link to the white house via the VICE PRESIDENT"S OFFICE. That Cheney was responsible for these two being in their positions.
MOre over - Gates got wind of this back door powerplay and shut it down before some event brought weapons flying at Iran.
Check it out.
[Deleted. Off topic. Get a grip would you? I'm growing weary of all the flame baiting. Consider this a warning-Sitemonitor]
John Wison @ 22:
If that's accurate, Gates' days in his position are numbered.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Don't overthink the situation. It is not that we fortunately discovered the so-called error, but that we only found out because someone inside actually did understand what was going on and took action. There are far too many levels of security, chain-of-custody, and outright awareness by any given technician that he or she is installing and arming a nuclear weapon for this to be a matter of a slip-up.
CitizenTom @ 20:
i like that bet......i believe i will follow your lead
L.A. Confidential @ 23:
Thanks for the warning.
I'll spare you the trouble.
This is the way it should be done - but it is not the way this administration does it. Witness Abu Ghraib.
This was a chain of command issue - not an oversight. There are four possibilities:
1) Orders from the highest authority were given to move/deploy these assets.
2) They were moved absent the highest authority.
3) They were moved in violation of orders from the highest authority to the contrary.
4) Oops, I thought they were replacement toilets.
With the safeguards in place, #4 is not possible.
Given that these are nuclear assets, the people sacked would not have had 'legal' authority to order the move of the assets. So, #1 would require the sacking of some higher authority.
#2 and #3 are frightening - either way. #2 implies a general could start a war (or a business), while #3 implies that a general could subvert 'legal' authority of superior officers.
Given oversight, I dont believe 4 is possible, the rest are disturbing.
Hard to say, of course, but I heard it may be a combination of things, including Air Force reluctance to provide Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) like the Predator, Global Hawk, etc. to help the other branches in Iraq.
SemiPundit @ 26:
No, the way I heard it, Taiwan contacted us and said, "WTF is this shit, then?"
And we went, "OMFG!!!!!"
"But we decided to wait several months because they are good christian missionaries and now nearly half of our whole air force believes in jeezous. To the american piple, that's what matters"
We have yes men, but no bananas.
And if one of those bombs had gone off?
Does anyone think that the Air Force would have accepted the blame?
I don't.
They would have blamed Iran and ignited world war three.
If they were secretly forced out for opposition to any plans for Iran they have a responsibility to speak out about it, right now.
We dont need any more McClellans speaking out after the fact, we need to act now in preventing these fucks from widening their disaster in the Middle East
Isn't Mosely that bible thumper who was promoting christianistic leanings in the Air Force?
Gates needs to clean out things quickly to disrupt this Iran business.
RightOn @ 33:
no they would have blamed obama
Blue Lensman @ 4:
Yes, you would expect that... something smells rotten here.
Is the dude on the right James Guckert's daddy?
This isn't the kind of thing that is an accident. This only happens by direct order. Those kind of orders only come from very high Officiers inside the military. Throwing the order takers under the bus again.
Half assed attempt to cover up some of the deeper mystery's and questions about this stuff the MSM has refused to cover. (What else is new) Especially those six nukes and the B-52.
Fire a couple guys and case closed I suppose.
Wow, these guys were supposed to be out at Holloman tomorrow for the new F-22 dedication. The programs are printed up and everything. I guess that might make things a big awkward. I guess the public affairs office will be working late today to do a reprint.
I wonder how long it will be before we see replacements? With the power vacuum left behind it could cause some unforseen problems.
L.A. Confidential @ 28:
Hey L.A., are you related to RepublicansHateFacts who posts at TP?
[Deleted. Abusive. Can't you read? LAC at least had the sense to quit while ahead. I'm giving you a time out. Site Monitor]
You never present a new product in august.
At least 3 colonels got busted
The Bush administration has been one disaster after another. From the first few weeks when that sub carrying Rightwing fatcats destroyed a Japanese fishing boat to this...nothing would surprise me anymore. Unfortunately, we will only find out the real horrors this administration has committed after they have left. Even so, I expect to see a lot the the criminal main players show up again in a future Republican administration.
Rick in Boca @ 35:
I hope you're right and that's what this is or there's going to be hell to pay - literally.
This isn't the end of their careers in the Air Force, it's the beginning their careers as TV propa... er, military experts.
I bet these two were due to resign. How else would the US ever get away with purposely shipping nuke-related weaponry to Taiwan... a country that just happens to be the weak link in China's 'territory'? China would justifiably freak if it learned nuke parts were being shipped to Taiwan -- so these two men (who probably wanted to step down anyway) no doubt allowed themselves to be 'fired' as part of a cover story. I'm sure there was some heavy back-room payments for their falling on their swords.
Propaganda is so easy.
have you seen the tv series "jerico"?
do you suppose that bush/cheney are
really up to relocating these nuclear missles
for that national emergency, since bush
has rewritten himself near dictatorial
powers thru directive 51?
i don't trust bush/cheney to do right or be
honest in anything they endeavor.
Yes, and those missiles are in the hands of Olmert now so he can do some more killin'.
Look for all the replacement brass to be several totally pro Iran war.
Obama will probably go along with it based on his recent ass kissing spectacle.
If one could take over one branch of the U.S. military in order to bring on Armageddon, which one would be the most advantageous to acquire?
J.C. @ 46:
They each get 2 great jobs. One working for the MSM to keep the marketing going, and one for the manufacturers to keep the products (or maybe just invoices) flowing.
Nobody paying attention again... You can't arm nukes without codes. Those codes have to be authorized. That authority has to be approved by civilian command unless said civilian command is decapitated. Get it now? Someone in the chain of command had to order this. Sleep well AmeriKa.
RightOn @ 33:
These bombs will go off in Iran. Watch and see!
"forced out" at full Air Force general penison and benefits, courtesy of US taxpayers.
"Under System 1, in effect for those who entered service prior to Sept. 8, 1980, retiring at 20 years is worth a straight 50 percent of final basic pay." http://www.airforcetimes.com/money/financial_advice/ONLINE.INVEST.PENSION/
"Officer Monthly Basic Pay - Grade 0-10, over 26 years $15,016.50, $180,198 per year" http://www.airforce.com/careers/paychart/index.php
Not to mention free health care, etc.
This makes "forced out" mean here take "$90,000 a year and free health care the rest of your life and go consult to Lockheed at for another $200,000"
We have a very basic problem where government service turns into millionaire golden ticket.
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
I gather under the SALT treaties the nuke warheads are never supposed to be mounted on a missile.
Theres a time penalty and cooling off period for using them, ie they have to be assembled into a weapon.
Tactical stuff isnt supposed to be at hand for casual use.
So we know SALT 1 and 2 are considered worthless by Bushco.
Theres also the little matter since 2004 of the Pentagon's 100 billion dollar fraud and the alleged use of the CIA personal to analyze contract history and steal contracts for Haliburton and Carlye group from other MIC companies.
Waxman is busy trying to get the internal audits from the Pentagon and the DoD.
This is novel. Generals being forced out for poor performance rather than the usual reason. Telling King George that Iraq is a mistake.
scenario 1:
scenario 2:
scenario 3:
but that's just me.
Why didn't they just throw a couple of enlisted men/women under the bus/APC/B52, like the Army did?
Underground Pirate @ 49:
no doubt! it MUST be obama's fault somehow.
Just Hussein Of It @ 52:
think there was "false flag" plan in the works?
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 58:
scenario 2:
scenario 3:
but that's just me.
Occam's Razor: These fuses were intended for the Nationalist government in Taipei.
(Actually, the best Occam's Razor argument here is that it really was an accident. But I find it hard that the fuses for nuclear warheads can be switched so easily for helicopter parts.)
CoIntelPro against Repug DoucheBaggery @ 61:
I can't possibly imagine a false flag plan inside the US. But then again, it's fucktard and the prince of darkness running the show. I guess 500K deaths from a terrorist nuke could be considered "collateral damage" to them.
Taking tin hat off.... No, my point was that these nukes were armed on purpose, like all armed nukes in this country. Why would we arm nukes in a post cold war world? No good answer, only lots of good questions.
obama can use this.........if this what experience gets us in the white house......that's experience we don't want/need.........this administration continues the dangerous and I don't give a damn blunders......not good for gop
karl @ 64:
karl, type less after drinking heavily. This is experience talking. Put the keyboard down and walk it off.
Just Hussein Of It @ 65:
sorry....hope i wasn't disrespectful
Andy K Jong Il @ 62:
scenario 3:
but that's just me.
Occam's Razor: These fuses were intended for the Nationalist government in Taipei.
(Actually, the best Occam's Razor argument here is that it really was an accident. But I find it hard that the fuses for nuclear warheads can be switched so easily for helicopter parts.)
I think that someone was arranging an 'accident' to happen. Something that would have caused martial law, but the plan failed.
I bet someone blew the whistle. I'm also willing to bet that 'someone' will be 'sucided'.
They'll try again. You wait and see.
An Air Force chief of staff and secretary are the cherry on top of a sizable list of people fired over this debacle where no one was hurt or even killed ... yet on 9/11 3000+ people are murdered in plain daylight and not one person loses their job? I have lost total faith in my leaders. Something doesnt smell right.
David W @ 68:
that smell has been bothering me for seven plus years
Albatross @ 1:
OMG!!! You nailed it about Iran!! That is what came to my mind immediately!! Isn't the Air Force the only part of the US Military that hasn't been depleted by Idiot B and Mr. Nasty's Admin??????
David W @ 68:
I'm telling you... those planes were flown out there with live warheads on purpose.
You should also remember that the airforce was told to stand down on 911, as the planes were heading for the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon.
That's a pretty unlikely scenario, unless it was all done on purpose.
Anybody seen any amusing foreign reaction on the web? I have to think only the few, the proud remaining American network news audience would be stupid enough to buy this story that we've been stocking the nukes next to the urinal cakes in the warehouse and paperwork mistakes happen.
Really, this should be one of the blockbuster thrillers in American history when the full story comes out about this White House and the military non-crazies who fought to stop them.
I think we should clearly define the meaning of the word "armed" here. While everything was physically present to make these bombs functional, they were not "armed" in the sense that they could be set off by the crews or go off accidentally. Nukes aren't "armed" until just before they are ready to be detonated. At least *those* safeguards were still in place.
CitizenTom @ 6:
I was late to this forum and responded to Albatross' #1 entry before readinbg the others. Sorry about that.
Citizen Tom, So true and very scary!! What can we do?????
Um...where the hell where those bombers going to!?
I think that these guys were part of the fascist xtian wing of the USAF.
Mikey Weinstein of Military Religious Freedom Foundation has been fighting against dominionist fascist elements of the military for several years & the stuff he has on his website is enuff to give anyone nightmares.
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/
http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/AU-5-24-07.html
In the USAF if you are not a Born again dominionist crusader, you don't get promoted.
BTW look at this genius... http://www.christianacademylou.org/English%20Station/es_alumni/CALalumni...
The xtian loonies in the USAF are the most dangerous threats not only to the US but to the world.
Educate yourselves, then contact:
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/committees.tt?commid=sarme
and
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/committees.tt?commid=hsecu
and raise hell.
These guys are hoping for WW3 in order to drag Jeebus out of heaven on THEIR timetable.
They give not a crapola about the oaths they have taken nor the constitution.
For more on military incompetence & treachery look here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm
Thanks, have a nice night. GO BAMA!!!
Widespread Says:
Hard to say, of course, but I heard it may be a combination of things, including Air Force reluctance to provide Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) like the Predator, Global Hawk, etc. to help the other branches in Iraq.
I think you're pretty close on the root but a little off on the reason. An effort was being made to develop a sustainable training program for UAVs in the AF and Gates wanted it all scrapped and everyone sent to Afghanistan/Iraq. The CC said no and the SecAF backed him up. Adios. The other issues just made it an easier sell to a willing media. Of course, the training programs are now on hold and the existing personnel will once again be tossed into the meat grinder until they get fed up and leave the service, hopefully before they meet a less fortunate fate.
It's been shown time and time again that given the training, equipment and support, our troops will do everything in their power to fulfill their mission, but of course, actually supporting our troops was never REALLY a big issue with this administration.
hey vegas guy........... you know how it is they want it both ways they want you in but they don't to pay for it.
Letting Republicans be in charge of Nukes is asking for trouble.
When they f@ck up, they will deny, lie and refuse to testify about anything.
This is just one of many reasons never to elect a republican.
Numinous @ 67:
You could just as easily say that these fuses were going to be given to Luxembourg. The only facts presented end with the arrival of the fuses in Taiwan.
Of course I'm hypothesizing, too, when I state that they were intended for the Chinese Nationalists on Taiwan. If the fuses were discovered in, say, Australia, I might think differently, but the Chinese Nationalists are still supported by a significant portion of the GOP, if not so much by the official policies of the US government. The PRC has nukes, and it's been pretty blunt in voicing its opinion on the sovereignty of the people on Taiwan. Nationalist leaders maybe used their influence in the GOP and got some fuses. Almost. But a secret shipment to Taiwan makes more sense to me than staging some sort of incident in the Middle East. Less steps. Less people in on the plan. Safer for all parties involved.
Kooljerk666 @ 76:
WOW. And I thought I was a freak. Might I suggest lithium? It kind of tastes funny, but those green monsters in your head will most likely go away. Really, seak some help.
Whatever the admin says about this is a lie.
Charlieboy @ 82:
that's a given
And Bush Cheney, Rice are known liars about Iraq WMD and they stay put.Hummmmm?
Did you know that the Air Force has an emergency response code for this sort of situation. It is called "Broken Airheads".
Some things nobody talks about. Back in the day, the Air Force was run by people who came up through SAC, and who cared about the control of the nukes. Since the cold war ended, SAC really no longer exists, and the fighter pilots have taken over. As some used to say, fighter pilots--this includes the Navy "aviators" like McCain--couldn't hit the ground if it weren't for gravity. They do not care about the big issues, like nuke safety, but only about being able to fly some new neat airplane. Thus they are also very resistant to innovations, like RPVs, that threaten their primacy in close air operations. This debate was going on in the early 1970s when there were jokes going around about the guys with coke bottle bottom glasses--i.e. the RPV controllers--supplanting the fighter jocks. They hate the very idea of RPVs, and will do everything in their power to suppress them. But they also have no concern for--even disdain for--the old SAC ways. Again, this goes back at least to Viet Nam, when a lot of the forward ground special forces preferred a SAC strike to a fighter strike. They felt that they could rely on SAC to put weapons where they needed them while the fighter pilots were off bombing water buffalo.
I'm guessing you were a SAC guy OAGF@86. You probably didn't much like Budansky's Air Power. There was a very good reason that organization was disbanded. You have to be honest. They screamed like stuck babies when they were asked to use their heavy bombers in Vietnam and were no more successful there than anywhere else. Until the advent of precision guided weapons high level precision bombing has always been an illusion. They were the same people who, when they dominated the Air Force tried to eliminate tactical aviation and fighters altogether on the theory that any war must proceed to a nuclear solution and therefore tactical aviation, as in ground support, was pointless.
Dear Peter G.
Good post. Actually, I was with TAC, PACAF and OSD. I understand your comments, however, and do not entirely disagree. But I think a distinction exists between the institutional interests of SAC and the individual inclinations of fighter pilots. Whatever, it bothers me that the AF has taken the turns it has in recent years--more an old AF guy in general at this point than either SAC or TAC fan. Also, the fact that any of the services are able to function internally, let alone on an inter-service basis is a miracle given the institutional conflicts. Frankly, from an Air Force planning point of view, the greatest obstacle to coherent planning was the Navy, with its antiquated "protect the fleet" doctrine. But that is another story.
interesting bit over @ WRH regarding what happened to the 6 crew members aboard that B-52 , all dead within the same week ? , and what israel company had the security detail . Great response by Wayne Madsen a must read IMHO .
Something else a lot more sinister almost happened. Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you see.
3....
2....
1....
HAPPY COUP D'ETAT!!!!!!
So.... did we get these mis-routed items back into U.S. custody? Just wondering.
There were a number of mysterious deaths of Air Force personnel close to this incident shortly after it took place. Too many to be coincidence alone.
John West @ 73:
Even if they weren't armed armed they would make any ordinary crash not so ordinary.
George @ 90:
Even less say 2% of what you read from msm
.
And Bush wants us to be scared of imaginary possibilities of Iran's nukes...?
... When his own military can't con troll their own nukes?
.
Steven D @ 92:
According to Wayne Madsen..there may be one missing:
"WMR has been informed by a knowledgeable source that one of the six nuclear-armed cruise missiles was, and may still be, unaccounted for. In that case, the nuclear reporting incident would have gone far beyond BENT SPEAR to a National Command
Authority alert known as EMPTY QUIVER, with the special classification of
PINNACLE."
George @ 90:
Like say Operation Orchard or Project Checkmate
pissed off patricia @ 3:
Well to me it says "Business as usual.". When was the last time you could trust the US government, or the government of any nation for that matter. The Bushrangers do take it to the next level though.
This guy Wynne was involved in the Dragon Lady scandal (she went to jail) that ended up in the tanker contract going to Airbus. Right after that mess, he made all of us DoD civilians take a special ethics training class, in which the first slide was a video of him telling us how important it is to be honest.
How's that for brass ones?
Good riddance to this skunk. Too bad that he'll end up at one of our beloved contractors making $500k per.
it was disclosed last year that the Air Force unknowingly let a B-52 bomber fly across the United States carrying six armed nuclear cruise missiles:
Unknowingly? I am sure someone knew about it...at least the person/people who armed them and the person/people who ordered it to be done. I am sure armed nukes are not just left laying around. I am sure the Air Force cannot go around arming nuclear weapons accidentally or cuz they just feel like it.
Still the unanswered question seems to be Where exactly are those six farking nuclear weapons today?.
The United States government is in a state of de facto civil war. Major struggles are being waged within the armed forces, the civil service and our intelligence agencies to root out AIPAC moles and other neocon traitors before they can launch the apocalypse.
You think maybe they're being ousted for OUTING the fact that nukes were being brought out at a time when sonny boy is threatening Iran with nukes?
Maybe they were fired for giving a heads up to the American people!
Watch out these people don't bomb Iran... something McCain has said he wants to do, something Hillary wants to do.
Mind you the people of Iran are not the same people as a generation ago. Those folks all died in the Iran/Iraq war, which was a false flag American/Iran war.
If we don't stop the adventurism in the Middle east, Israel won't have anyone at her back anymore. America will be defeated by a coalition of nations that are sick to death of our warring on them and predating on them.
Was this really a mistake? http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=23648
The biggest question is why a B-52 armed with nuclear-tipped cruise missiles would fly to Barksdale AFB. If, as reported, the weapons were being transported to be decommissioned, which supposedly is the destination for 400 of these doomsday weapons, then they should have been destined for Kirtland AFB in New Mexico, near the Pantex plant outside Amarillo, TX, where they would be dismantled. As Michael Salla writes in a disturbing piece in Saturday’s edition of OpEdNews, the weapons should also not have been flown at all on a B-52, as there have been standing orders for 40 years against such flights over US soil, following several accidents in which bombs or nuclear-armed rockets were lost because “broken arrow” incidents including inadvertent bomb drops or crashes. A second order, issued in 1991 at the end of the Cold War by George Bush’s father, barred the loading of nuclear weapons on any bomber. Any pilot would have known this, as would any ground support people loading the missiles on the B-52.
What makes the incident even more suspicious is that Barksdale AFB is a staging area for B-52s being sent to the Middle East for combat duty. As the website GlobalSecurity.org reports: “Barksdale Air Force Base is headquarters for the 2d Bomb Wing, Eighth Air Force and 917th Wing. The 2d Bomb Wing provides global combat capability and trains all B-52 combat crews.”
The official Barksdale AFB website says: “Barksdale warriors and B-52s have a proud tradition serving both at home and abroad in support of the Global War on Terrorism; they have played vital roles in combat operations supporting Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan and Operation Iraqi Freedom.”
The question that must be answered is are the weapons back in the U.S.A? Or did just the shells return? Very suspicious. Very frightening.
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