On the other hand, Obama will apparently just continue the tradition of telling this most powerful of lobbies whatever they want to hear.

that is NOT comforting

Obama, Clinton, Edwards ... Every potential Dem candidate was in Israel a year ago promising to roll over, business as usual. A year ago. Don't think it ever quite made the news .... hmmmm funny that.

Nice try ...
How does having an opinion on AIPAC make one anti-semitic?
You just flunked logic 101.

and FYI:
Describing itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby," AIPAC is a not-for-profit, mass-membership organization whose members include Democrats, Republicans, and independents. AIPAC is funded through contributions from its members and the international banking community"

Goom-bye :)

earl @ 3:

Obama, Clinton, Edwards ... Every potential Dem candidate was in Israel a year ago promising to roll over, business as usual. A year ago. Don't think it ever quite made the news .... hmmmm funny that.

Surely NOBODY expects a politician to rub AIPAC the wrong way in an election cycle?!

But we can always expect people like sandra to blur the lines between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. I for one am still waiting for the explanation as to why Israel is "invaluable to us".

Well written on the Aipac issue.

Check this out Mike and all Phase II is out
Over at Emptywheel talk of Fitz going back in front of Congress, Obama announces NO LOBBYIST, NO PAC NO NO NO, Obama stands up to Lieberman about something, and now this folks. Phase II of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is out.
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/007493.html

Jesus Mary and Joseph did the sky open up or what?

Blue Lensman @ 7:

earl @ 3:

Obama, Clinton, Edwards ... Every potential Dem candidate was in Israel a year ago promising to roll over, business as usual. A year ago. Don't think it ever quite made the news .... hmmmm funny that.

Surely NOBODY expects a politician to rub AIPAC the wrong way in an election cycle?!

But we can always expect people like sandra to blur the lines between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. I for one am still waiting for the explanation as to why Israel is "invaluable to us".

they are invalueable to us because we need to send somebody billions of our tax dollars every year , what better olace then isreal, we send them fifty billion they buy us arms with fifty billion dollars ,its basic economics , the war mongers make out all the way around,

sandra rosenthal @ 4:

If it looks like a pig and walks like a pig...you can count on its being a pig.

I think it has to oink like a pig, too. :)

Seriously, why is Israel so valuable to us? (I'm asking because I don't know the answer.)

Rick

earl @ 2:

Anything
Israel
Prefers
America
Concedes

So correct. I would love to see America become self sufficient and quit sucking up to Israel and Saudi Arabia. Every time our
federal government gets involved in the middle east, the American people loose. If Israel wants to bomb Iran, we should stop all
of our tax dollars going there. When Bush is prosecuted for murder http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/ the people of Israel need to prosecute
their leaders as well. Starting a war is a war crime!!!!!!!!!!

Rick @ 12:

sandra rosenthal @ 4:

If it looks like a pig and walks like a pig...you can count on its being a pig.

I think it has to oink like a pig, too. :)

Seriously, why is Israel so valuable to us? (I'm asking because I don't know the answer.)

Rick

Because they have a huge lobbying presence in Washington D.C.!!!!!!!
I hope Obama will send all lobbyists home...or prosecute them for racketeering!!!!!!!!!!

Rick @ 12:

sandra rosenthal @ 4:

If it looks like a pig and walks like a pig...you can count on its being a pig.

I think it has to oink like a pig, too. :)

Seriously, why is Israel so valuable to us? (I'm asking because I don't know the answer.)

Rick

in addition to other reasons......i always wondered if the u.s. aligned itself with israel to be able to become an enemy to arab nations in order to control crude and middle east arab political power just a thought

Rick @ 12:

sandra rosenthal @ 4:

If it looks like a pig and walks like a pig...you can count on its being a pig.

I think it has to oink like a pig, too. :)

Seriously, why is Israel so valuable to us? (I'm asking because I don't know the answer.)

Rick

The two big reasons I heard:

-- It's one of the few points of stability in the ME (the countries on the Arabian Peninsula being the others), so kissing their ass helps us ensure security in the oil rich ME. Hopefully the fact that the oil in the ME is about to run out will soon end our need to kiss the asses of Israel/SA/UAE/Qatar.

-- According to theocon theory, the Jews must be in control of Jerusalem/Israel during the apocalypse. The destabilizing effect of Israel, plus some purposeful provocation (ie: invading Iraq for the hell of it) helps hasten events leading up to the apocalypse.

Ok, I've posted the same thing twice and both times it didn't take. Not sure what's going on there.

Ted Rall column about declaring a country to be our "enemy." Excellent in my opinion and on topic with inflammatory rhetoric by the right.

http://tinyurl.com/636j9p

Underground Pirate @ 16:

BaScOmBe against Bitter Elitist Appeasement Bullshit @ 1:

On the other hand, Obama will apparently just continue the tradition of telling this most powerful of lobbies whatever they want to hear.

that is NOT comforting

I hope that Obama is just lying to them like Bush lied to us. That would be smart of him. To court their support then stick it to those bastards in the pro Israel lobbies.

I agree, but rather than "stick it to them" blatantly we need to diplomatically bring Israel in line with the rest of the world - request they sign onto the NNPT as part of the deal to sell arms to them; make concessions with their neighbors that include pressing for return of seized territory; phase out direct financial support as an "economy" measure etc. We also need legislation eliminating lobbying for military and foreign interests.
And, probably most important we have to clean house too, because hypocrisy is our most pressing problem in foreign affairs. We shouldn't be asking others to do what we are not willing to do ourselves!

Blue Lensman @ 22:

Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 19:

Rick @ 12:

sandra rosenthal @ 4:

I think it has to oink like a pig, too. :)

Seriously, why is Israel so valuable to us? (I'm asking because I don't know the answer.)

Rick

The two big reasons I heard:

-- It's one of the few points of stability in the ME (the countries on the Arabian Peninsula being the others), so kissing their ass helps us ensure security in the oil rich ME. Hopefully the fact that the oil in the ME is about to run out will soon end our need to kiss the asses of Israel/SA/UAE/Qatar.

-- According to theocon theory, the Jews must be in control of Jerusalem/Israel during the apocalypse. The destabilizing effect of Israel, plus some purposeful provocation (ie: invading Iraq for the hell of it) helps hasten events leading up to the apocalypse.

Crusades and Mammon worship.

Some things never change..

several reasons for a relationship with israel but i believe we became a natural enemy to some arab countries this allowed us to become involved in their political ventures and resources(crude oil)the ultimate deal made when 1947..48 or so

On June 5, 1968, Sen. Robert F. Kennedy was shot and mortally wounded just after claiming victory in California's Democratic presidential primary. Gunman Sirhan Bishara Sirhan was immediately arrested.

My opinion on Israel is that their govt.s attitude toward Palestine sucks, and the Israeli govt. can suck my balls.
But I know that there are people living in Israel, Jews AND Arabs that are working together to stop the GENOCIDE against the Palestinians. And that IS comforting.
However, the fact that Obama and Hillary BOTH basically kissed AIPACs collective butts, leaves me feeling disgusted...but politics is a like being with a prostitute...no matter who comes first, someobody's walkin away feeling dirty. Ok...not the best analogy, but not too bad either.

YourMom @ 23:

Underground Pirate @ 16:

BaScOmBe against Bitter Elitist Appeasement Bullshit @ 1:

that is NOT comforting

I hope that Obama is just lying to them like Bush lied to us. That would be smart of him. To court their support then stick it to those bastards in the pro Israel lobbies.

I agree, but rather than "stick it to them" blatantly we need to diplomatically bring Israel in line with the rest of the world - request they sign onto the NNPT as part of the deal to sell arms to them; make concessions with their neighbors that include pressing for return of seized territory; phase out direct financial support as an "economy" measure etc. We also need legislation eliminating lobbying for military and foreign interests.
And, probably most important we have to clean house too, because hypocrisy is our most pressing problem in foreign affairs. We shouldn't be asking others to do what we are not willing to do ourselves!

sssshhhh! appear to be upset like me.

I could care less if the Dem party and "Chicago Politics" dies from its own corruption at this point. Right along with the Cons.

Probably be the best thing for the country in the long run to have a total shakeout. A total housecleaning.

Theguy @ 26:

Glad to see a blog post on crooksandliars mention this- usually its ignored by almost everyone the complete unconditional support that all the candidates give to throwing American taxpayers money into Israel's hands, supporting and fighting their wars for them, and continuing to threaten Iran. This is one of the main highlights that show that Obama's foreign policy in the end won't be much different from what we've been getting for decades.

Keep encouraging all of the so called "progressive" blogs to break through the very serious and persistent blog clogs on this issue. Crooks and Liars has been one of the brave blogs on this issue. But many (including Firedoglake will only dip their toes, although there has been a tiny shift in the last six months). Many of these so called "progressive" blogs have been as shut down to covering this issue as the MSM. This issue is where many of the "progressive" blogs fall into lock step with the MSM

Rethug Dana Rohrabacher says Gitmo torture is more like “fraternity pranks.”

So if some one used these "pranks" on Dana there would be no cause for legal prosecutions of any sort, correct?

L.A. Confidential @ 33:

I could care less if the Dem party and "Chicago Politics" dies from its own corruption at this point. Right along with the Cons.

Probably be the best thing for the country in the long run to have a total shakeout. A total housecleaning.

and the hatred lingers on ...

earl @ 38:

BaScOmBe against Bitter Elitist Appeasement Bullshit @ 27:

On June 5, 1968, Sen. Robert F. Kennedy was shot and mortally wounded just after claiming victory in California's Democratic presidential primary. Gunman Sirhan Bishara Sirhan was immediately arrested.

www.democracynow.org
just did a whole hour on it.
Excellent as always.

this blog is based in california. they should be up on this! the only excuse I see is some superstition.
unlike a baseball no-hitter, this event does not demand silence.

A good Bitch post, and sadly, we continue to have apologists for torture.

ThunderMonkey @ 32:

Theguy @ 26:

Glad to see a blog post on crooksandliars mention this- usually its ignored by almost everyone the complete unconditional support that all the candidates give to throwing American taxpayers money into Israel's hands, supporting and fighting their wars for them, and continuing to threaten Iran. This is one of the main highlights that show that Obama's foreign policy in the end won't be much different from what we've been getting for decades.

And who's fault is that? The tragedy is that no one really has the balls to stand up to AIPAC or call Israel out when it does a boneheaded thing.

Not to turn this into a "support Ron Paul" type thing- but he is the only one of the candidates that has called to reverse our foreign policy regarding Israel. Even someone like Pat Buchanan railed against Israel's decision to invade Lebanon back in 2006- these types of things it is unfortunate we will never hear from Obama, Hilary, McCain, Pelosi, or anyone else in any position of power.

Kathleen @ 44:

Here is a question . Why is it that all of our candidates are kissing Aipac's ass when former officials for Aipac Steve Rosen and Weisman have been under investigation for three years for passing classified documents off to Israeli officials? Why is it that our candidates are not questioning the role that Aipac has played in this espionage investigation and "indefinitely delayed" trial?

Why is it that our Mainstream Media and the majority of so called "progressive" blogs have ignored this investigation and five time delayed trial.

If another lobbying group representing say Turkey had been "allegedly" used as a vehicle to undermine National Security would our Presidential candidates be at their conference paying homage?

If you want to know more about this investigation and trial of Aipac's involvement with this espionage case go google U.S. vs. Rosen

The reasons are many, but I'll mention a few:

1. AIPAC and its supporters have managed to insert themselves into both the Democratic and the Republican parties. Chuck Schumer, for example, is a stanuch supporter of Israel, a democrat, an AIPAC member and one who went against the will of the first Bush admin back in 1992 when he chastized him for freezing aid to Israel when Israel refused to stop settelment expansion.

AIPAC are also great contributors to political campaigns, for example, during her run for the NY Senate, Hillary got a good portion of her donations from AIPAC and its subsidiaries.

Donations aren't the only thing of value that AIPAC can deliver. They are also good at rallying entire blocks of voters. For example, if they decide to back a presidential candidate they can promise him/her 300,000 votes (for example) in exchange for that candidate's promise to be,.....shall we way...."sensitive to their needs".
That's where I think Obama is at the moment. He needs the votes.

2. While the MSM can be easily bought off, independent blogs and newspapers in the U.S. try to steer clear of criticizing Israel for fear of being labeled antisemitic. Pro-Israel groups have done a great job at intimidating and threatening anyone who calls Israel out on its actions. The Anti-Semitic label is the most basic of tactics and the one widely used by them. Even Jimmy Carter who brokered the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was accused of being anti-Semitic when he published his book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.

the Smiths,

One of the dangers is that these foreign nations know our leaders. They know that they are immature, greedy, self-serving, and cynical. Unfortunately, this makes our leaders relatively easy to manipulate and to predict their future behavior since decisions are made on base instincts rather than the solicitation of an expanded purpose that remains flexible as circumstances require. In many cases our representatives are no intellectual competition for their foreign counterparts forcing our leaders to rely on crude methods of control, over more sophisticated negotiations. Since this limits our options it increases predictability. This is why conservatism makes our nation less secure. Simply because American leaders know how to fool the American people does not translate to a broader skill of doing what is right and foreigners do not buy it and wonder why Americans do. Foreigners who are kind think of this failing as innocence in the destructive sense, while those who dislike Americans or worse think that Americans are too full of themselves to realize that they are being toyed with.

purpleOnion @ 42:

As big and all-powerful we are told AIPAC is, (7000 at this recent warmongering orgy,) with a budget of $100 million to make or break American politicians the U.S. should not perceive Israel's interests as having equal footing. You can bet your left petunia that Israel places its interests ahead of that of the U.S. It is one reason that Israel spies on the U.S.

Should the U.S. protect a once beleaguered people surrounded by enemies? When it is in U.S. interests to do so. Part of the problem, apart from the influence of money, is that many of the U.S. representatives are mental midgets when compared to Israeli intellectuals. The Israelis have the money and the power of convincing arguments on their side. But we must remember that their perspective is that of a people surrounded by enemies. The U.S. has Mexico, Canada, and two oceans between it and its nearest enemy. Therefore, the perspective should not be as paranoid, racist, and defensive as many Israelis. The U.S. has been catering to the interests of Israel's right wing, the most paranoid and violent types in that society. Israel is not a distant U.S. state, nor are its conclusions regarding the Palestinians always correct.

There are many Jews who are not warmongers and would prefer a peaceful two state resolution to address the terrorist problem. There exists a group named the "J" Street project with a small budget of $1.5 million dollars that was established to advance an alternate view of Israel's situation.

While America's sentiment toward Israel effects foreign policy, it should be understood that the right wing attitude has been given more credence than it deserves. A more vibrant news media in Isreal openly discusses its differences with the right wing including an anti-war component.

"Israeli intellectuals" is a myth.