No Charges Will Be Filed In KS Taser Death
KAKE.com: (h/t J)
No criminal charges will be filed in the death of a Goodyear worker, who passed away after being tased by Shawnee County Sheriff's deputies.Shawnee County District Attorney Robert Hecht released his report Tuesday on the March 29th death of 59-year old Walter Haake. The report says Haake had suffered a head injury in a fall at his home the night before his death. It says Haake had been incoherent at work and fellow workers tried to deter him from driving when he left the plant. Shawnee County Sheriff's Deputies were called in when Haake refused to get out of his vehicle.
"Mre Haake physcially resisted removal, leaving the officers in the position of simply leaving him in the vehicle and letting the medical condition play out or using such force as may be required to remove him," Hecht wrote in the report.
The deputies chose to remove Haake by tazing him, then restraining him. The coroner ruled that an existing heart condition, combined with the compression to his chest when he was placed on the ground to be handcuffed, led to his death. Read on...
We posted this story back in April, and it appears the tragedy has gotten even worse. Haake was guilty of being injured and refusing treatment -- nothing more. That no charges will be filed against these officers is a travesty of justice and its a slap in the face of his poor family. This man's civil liberties were obliterated and I hope his family files a civil lawsuit. This case deserves national attention, as it sets a very dangerous example.
Why should there be charges? Cops have been killing innocent people for years and getting away with it. Welcome to the police state. Get used to it.
I still don't understand why they tased him. Are officers just short on any kind of patience any more? What happened to negotiation?
Sheee-it.
don't tase me bro..........they don't care.a lot o lobbying behind the taser
Quick! Someone let the dead guy know those things are NON-lethal.
Bonkers @ 2:
Steroids.
Have you seen some of these guys lately?
Your right they should of just let him drive off and kill someone instead of trying to get the scituation under control. How where his civil liberties violated? people who follow police orders don't get tazed.
It was non lethal.
Ask anybody.
doogie @ 6:
Ya, great argument d'er. Just do exactly what you are told and we probably won't kill you. Hmmm. Not the most convincing thing I've ever heard.
doogie @ 6:
That's their lie and they're sticking to it.
When you're in charge of a vehicle (IE. YOUR ITS DRIVER) that can be used as a deadly weapon. Tazing him ended his ability to use it. He died and that's the tragedy, compounding that tragedy by making the officers pay isn't the answer.
Just Hussein Of It @ 1:
Washington DC's War on Drugs has turned into an Iraq-style occupation.
These are the type of stories I like to read. Something that has implications for all of our future and our society. Something we can do to help a fellow human. Something that we can take action on. These are the stories that need awareness. Thanks for the post. Thanks for the publicity. I hadn't heard of this case before.
paul @ 10:
It's their lie and they're sticking to it.
Just Hussein Of It @ 8:
But it's the same retort, EVERY time, by people who reflexively defend tasering by cops.
Now wait for it: next we'll be told how "tough it is to be a cop", "why don't you pussies try it", yadda yadda, "STFU", endless accusations that anybody who doesn't think the average person who doesn't immediately follow a direct order shouldn't be tased "doesn't know shit, you librul whiner", etc etc. It's coming downthread...
Police are in a bad situation, they don't know the guy, they don't know if he is armed, crazy, or dangerous, they get to make these decisions dozens perhaps hundreds of times a month, the wrong decision makes them dead. That is why law enforcement is trying non lethal tasers, I don't know about you, but I would rather be tasered then take a round in my head. Many times cops have NO good options, and they make these decisions on their policy, experience and judgment, my uncle (good man that he was) was a NYC cop, he never NEVER had to use his gun, he was a lucky man. I'm not saying all cops are angels, hell right here in Seattle we had a stark naked man take a cops gun and shoot him to death, they don't know which day it will be that they don't get to go home.....
paul @ 10:
I could see it if he was speeding thru intersections in a high speed chase. Or some such thing.
But , maybe grabbing his keys would have been a better option.
mudshark @ 16:
Or maybe flattening his tires.
food for thought.
mudshark @ 17:
Yeah, while I see where paul is coming from, a spike strip seems in order. SOMEthing besides violence.
TomDem55 @ 15:
That's fine. Unfortunately the mindset is that tasers are "non-lethal" but they aren't. They are potentially less lethal. Nothing more. The problem lies in the willingness to use them more often when in fact they should be treated with the seriousness of a handgun. They kill people with heart conditions and there is no way to tell if a person has one or not.
Batman just punches people to make them stop.
mudshark @ 16:
Too simple of an answer. How could they look for a simple solution.
doogie @ 6:
Because they couldn't find some sort of way to flatten the tires of his car, right?
Sorry, tasers, when used as directed, kill people. Because they fail to do so in every use doesn't make them non-lethal.
Too many people are dying or being abused while in police custody. Here's a few examples that need to be highlighted.
Hope Steffey Strip Searched in America ~ warning awful, yet posted and found on C&L months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Smv3XCkBE
Taser Death at Airport ~ Polish Man died after confusion at International Terminal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05vuY-kqp9o
Awareness can prevent future abuses.
muddy & xoites-
You guys couldn't simply wait two or three minutes to post my comment, huh?
BTW- I know you're not the real xoites. The real xoites left for good, and took his ball with him. ;D
Andy K Jong Il @ 24:
Since mom graciously gave up i have nothing better to do.
-Chelsey.
I'm sick of this society. I'm hoping the cops will taze me and finish me off. The fatality rate for those above forty is impressively high, after all. I'm betting it'll work.
Taser have a 100% success rate at winning lawsuits, too.
The coroner won't be allowed to report that the taser was responsible, which is a shame. They should be proud of their product - and free to announce its efficiency to the World.
Moo!
This country puts physicians on a pedestal.
I respect physicians for their knowledge and dedication.
A problem arises, however, when evil politicians can get certain physicians (i.e., coroners) to do their (the evildoers') bidding.
It happens a lot.
For example, go research Henry Marshall, an agriculture inspector who crossed paths with LBJ and certain of his corrupt buds (e.g., Billy Sol Estes). Marshall was found with bruises to his head and several gunshots in the back. Coroner's verdict: suicide.
Yeah, the verdict was overruled some 20 years later. But so what? There was no further investigation, and LBJ was long dead.
xoites defends Constitution @ 25:
Chelsey? With a "y"? I know who this is.
How hot is it in Evansville today, tyree?
doogie @ 6:
Having read nothing more than the clip posted to C&L, I had the same thought. He was not "guilty of being injured and refusing treatment — nothing more." He drove (or was about to drive away in) a vehicle on public roads after suffering a head injury that made him incoherent. Again, I haven't read any details on this case, but even as a devout civil libertarian and criminal defense attorney, I recognize "something more" than merely refusing treatment. We wouldn't have let him drive off drunk, would we?
That depends. If, after having pulled him over (or just arriving to the place where the car was parked and he was sitting in it), all he did was tell the officers that he was refusing treatment, and would calmly sit in his car until he felt better, the police most certainly had no right to touch him, much less taser and crush him to death. If he were acting erratically or threateningly, they might not have violated his "liberties," but they nevertheless sure as hell violated his rights. There appears (again, merely from reading the clip), no reason whatsoever to taser and arrest him at all.
Nonsense. Yes, they do. All the time. And even if this man behaved in a way that required some sort of restraint, the problem is that police have a tendency to overact and overreact to things.
More importantly, IN OUR FREE COUNTRY, YOU (SHOULD) HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO FOLLOW ILLEGITIMATE POLICE ORDERS UNDER THE FOURTH AMENDMENT!
We're sliding more and more into a police state. Terrifying. If anyone's interested in more on that, click my name!
Don't upset Tyree. He is angry with me enough as it is.
xoites defends Constitution @ 25:
C'Mon, Admit it. You missed us.
xoites defends Constitution @ 25:
wait...what?
Bonkers @ 32:
Just playing. :)
The cops may have acted negligently but, based on the facts given, this isn't even close to being a criminal offense. No surprise they aren't going to be prosecuted. The fact that a tragedy occurred doesn't mean that a crime occurred.
Coroners muzzled over deadly effect of Tasers
xoites defends Constitution @ 33:
Uh Huh.
yeah, right.
xoites defends Constitution @ 19:
It's not fine! The trend in Fourth Amendment jurisprudence is to give the cops more and more leeway because their job is dangerous. Sorry, giving the cops more and more leeway is dangerous.
They need better training to avoid situations like this.
This is crap. Somebody should have called EMS for the man. Failing that, the deputies should have called for the medics when it was ascertained that the man had a recent history of a head injury. If the man was oriented to where he was, who he was, and the day of the week - he should have been allowed to sign a waiver refusing medical care. If it was determined that he was indeed disoriented, he could have been physically restrained and transported to the nearest medical facility. I know, I was a career firefighter/paramedic. It sounds to me as though the deputies were eager to try out their new toy taser. Yee freakin' haw!
xoites defends Constitution @ 33:
Let me just get this straight:
Andy is incorrect and you didn't quit posting here so you are not an imposter.
And your mom did NOT kick the bucket, right?
(then I will stop being OT, Site Mon)
Back on topic...
The police do have a tough job, but all too often they place themselves outside the law and cover each other's asses. Police brutality is real. I have experienced it first hand.
In Japan the police spend one day a week arrainging flowers to help them keep their heads together and they don't carry guns.
Karen @ 37:
First they need to drug test for steroids. I saw this cop the other day, and he looked like he was going to bust right out of his shirt.
Not natural. no way.
Richard @ 34:
Not having read all the details in this case, I hesitate to second guess the decision.
However, there is a crime called Criminally Negligent Homicide, otherwise known as Involuntary Manslaughter. Negligence does not automatically get you off the hook when a death is involved.
xoites defends Constitution @ 40:
: )
xoites defends Constitution @ 30:
Seeing that tyree's admitted, on numerous occasions, that he ain't exactly deft with the keyboard or the spelling, and seein' that he might be ticked at you, don't you think he might enjoy seeing you ribbed a bit?
Please, whatever you do next, don't fake your death here. Someone we both know has done that. I've given him the business about that, too. Just shrug it off, xoites, 'cause no matter how much I razz you about it, I love ya.
mudshark @ 5:
hi mudshark! , thought id let you know i may vote for obama , ive decided thiers no use expecting everything i want done from any president , i will wait and see what he does from now till november , but im through argueing with the die hards over his positions on iraq, as they seem to change as the weeks go by, im not going to be any cheerleadr for him but ill keep an open mind !
According to the reports I read, they had already taken his keys from him. Sooo, worrying about whether he was going to run over someone, in addition to being silly argument prima facia (given everything else we know about the situation), is simply a non-starter.
As for the argument that "it's tough being a cop", well shit, it's tough being a lot of things. People make stupid decisions everyday in many lines of work that result in accidentally killing people. In most states, this is called "manslaughter". Look, the cops had a decision to make (and in this case, I honestly don't see that this was that difficult of a situation), and they made a bad decision that ended up killing someone. They should be held accountable. Of course they didn't want this outcome. But they are at some level culpable. Deciding HOW culpable is why we have judges and juries. The DA should have brought charges and given these cops their day in court.
Just like every other citizen.
Andy K Jong Il @ 44:
Fake my death?
I was making a joke about Hillary Clinton.
It is really easy to be misunderstood here.
Bonkers @ 14:
I'm the first person to defend the detestible position of the police in this country. How much easier would it be if there weren't so many 2nd amendment protected guns on the street? Wouldn't we have better quality police if we didn't invest more in their pay, training, and support? Higher standards require higher pay and benifits.
Get ready for the but,
BUT, SOP in this country has become to taser anyone for any reason we can imagine. Before it was quite difficult to justify the discharge of a weapon. Now nobody gives a shit if you shock sombody. Really, just go back to the night stick, and we can keep better track of your abuses.
tyree @ 45:
Good for you tyree. I have some questions about him as well. But I had some questions about HRC too. I think he is a very intelligent man. So I figure I'll support him to the fullest extent. But that doesn't mean I'll let anything slide. I wouldn't let any of them slide.
So---- go check the death of young Mr. Lee in Nashville. He was early 20's, and drunk. They KILLED him with a Taser. His dad wrote "Friends In Low Places". His dad had no clue about the power of the cops.
xoites defends Constitution @ 47:
C'Mon xoites, admit it, ya missed us. ya did huh, didn't ya huh, huh? c'mon now look who you're talkin to . It's us.
Elect the best of what is left and make them do our bidding. What else can we do?
A friend of mine was in a fast food restaurant about a week ago when a police officer came in. He looked at the cop and started laughing to himself. The cop had so many guns on him that Howard couldn't help himself. The cop turned and saw Howard smiling and asked him if there was something wrong. Howard laughed and told him he looked like a one man swat team. The cop got a nasty look on his face but couldn't think of anything to say and just left.
being anti-cop, like many of the first posts is just as bad as a cop saying 'stfu, and do what I say". You must understand the crappy job they have. Crappy pay, you are a target walking in the worst part of town stopping a car full of four known gang bangers. Everyone hates you until.. until. that night when they hear a guy in Their back yard and they call 911 and bitch because cops aren't there fast enough.
I'm from Kansas. My dad lives in that county (Topeka). It is the 2nd most dangerous small town in america. I live in LA now and the crime in Topeka is significantly worse in every way. The cops made a bad call, but are they alone?
Responsibility is for everyone:
1) the employees at the company should have stopped they guy
2) a taser was probably not called for unless an officer was endangered.
3) he should have complied with the officers
We are at risk of a police state, but not from street cops (you are getting mad at the good guys!!!). Look at Bush, lack of habeaus corpus, congress passing domestic spying legislation.... Yeah, people who just get mad at "cops" aren't people I respect the opinion of. Uninformed. Unevolved. Uninteresting. Juvenile, even.
As a side note, people thought the introduction of the taser would reduce use of guns. Statistically not so. Instead use of tasers has gone through the roof. Cops know this well, and everyone I talk to is wanting more training it the proper use of force.
This is a real tragedy... Reminds me of the old Vietnam canard slightly modified... 'we had to kill the villager to save him'...
All snark aside, what I really want to know is just what the cops knew going in? Also, was the victims car on and in a position to move or not.. That's not clear from what I'm reading here. Seems like these two questions are pretty significant in determining what protocol was or should have been followed..
It's a fact that seemingly unnecessary taser events are growing.
A lot of people will pretend that's no big deal but they are either in denial of have some kind of vested interest in looking the other way... One thing is certain.. A product designed and marketed as a non-lethal alternative to deadly force is really starting to rack up its own body count............
In this case, IF they in fact, knew going in and understood they were dealing with a person behind the wheel in some kind of medical emergency? Then the strategy of using tasers on this guy was clueless at best and possibly criminally negligent at worst... Yea, I think an investigation is in order.. Oh wait, that's already done... Is this a whitewash??? Can't say but it appears pretty fishy right now. The statements in the lead in paragraph seems to indicate the authorities knew what they were dealing with...i.e. 'Mr Haake physically resisted removal, leaving the officers in the position of either leaving him in the vehicle and letting the medical condition play out or using such force as may be required to remove him' etc... What's up with that??? Will there be any other follow up? My guess, not if the authorities involved can avoid it..... A tragedy to be sure.
This whole uber authoritarian strongarm approach to law enforcement is, I think, another legacy of the Bush/Cheney years... It's really getting out of control.... What next? Kitty in the tree so deputydog tases the little fucker instead of trying to coax it down???? That's what it seems like it's coming down too..... I've been saying this for years... IF this is another example of bad actors on the force, then that shit needs be be cleaned up inhouse by law enforcement...Before an external authority has to step in and do it for them. This seems to be a nationwide phenomenom with cops all over... Exactly the kind of shit that just keeps on happening and undermines peoples faith in the law altogether. Most decent law abiding folks wants to obey laws.....Understands any civilized society has to have these things to avoid anarchy and law of the jungle kill or be killed.. But noone wants to be pushed around by thugs with badges... IS that what the fuck happened here??? I don't know, but someone ought to be finding out.......JD
Cops kill people. That's no illegal is it? Well, not in Kansas anyway.
Look, I remember once when a guy pulled into the fire station parking at a fast speed, screeched to a halt and started acting agressive and angry. It took a couple of guys to hold him down; got a blood sample, and found that his blood glucose level was 38 - normal being 80 -105. We started an IV and pushed glucose into him. He became lucid and stable within minutes. he turned out to be a diabetic lawyer with an insulin reaction...can you imagine the lawsuit if we'd tased the poor guy? That's just plain wrong.
Andy K Jong Il @ 28:
think its around 93 or close to it , its hot!
I did not miss the infighting over the primary. I returned Tuesday night in hopes we can all get together again and fight for Habeas Corpus and the Constitution and Universal Health Care and all the other things as a team once again.
TomDem55 @ 15:
So.
Police brutality is on the rise throughout the country, more and more it is being allowed to go unpunished by judicial systems or worse, completely ignored. Sometimes I think it is even encouraged. I believe people are slowly being groomed to accept the Police State that the country will become in the future.
mudshark @ 49:
ditto
Karen @ 42:
Ron @ 53:
I was thinking about something similar today Ron.
I was thinking about our troops when they bust down a door in some house and charge in.
Seems to me that is the exact same technique used by the swat teams. So, our police force has been effectively militarized.
Robinson @ 54:
I agree with everything you say except the bolded text. Not that we can judge all cops to be "bad guys," since each and every one of them must be judged as individuals. Some are splendid. Some are loathsome.
But street cops do indeed add to the growing police-state atmosphere. Many misbehave, overreact, intimidate and brutalize people. Then many of them lie in court about it -- wiht the good guys covering for the bad guys. The "excuse" is always that their job is difficult. I don't doubt that, but I don't excuse the behavior either.
I wish that police officers were educated in the founding ideals of our nation, and more interested in protecting and serving than catching bad guys.
And finally, I wish we would abandon the unmitigated disaster that is our war on drugs. It has eroded the Fourth Amendment, exacerbated crime, and created a cop/criminal culture in which everyone is terrified of everyone else. As a result, innocent people are caught in the crossfires.
Nope! electroshock didn't stop his heart, couldn't have happened!
Much more tracking of this kind of thing at:
http://gangstersinblue.org/
http://truthnottasers.blogspot.com/
http://tasertimes.com/
http://www.excited-delirium.com/
xoites defends Constitution @ 59:
uh,huh.
you missed us.
JerryO @ 61:
You can blame that on the judges appointed by Reagan, Bush and Bush. The most right wing they could find.
If Dick Cheney can get drunk and blast a lawyer in the face with a shotgun, I guess pretty much all laws are useless.
mudshark @ 64:
I think I made a comment on that here at C&L the other day. They are looking for and hiring combat veterans.
Richard @ 63:
Indeed, one has to be grossly negligent before one is criminally culpable for his negligence. But one can be held criminally culpable for negligence if it rises to that level.
Again, I hesitate to criticize the decision without knowing the details in full.
Ron @ 69:
We are living in a subdued police state. And it wont take much for them to cross the line.
mudshark @ 71:
If, like me, you are not in jail then you are living in "minimum security."
xoites defends Constitution @ 47:
No, I meant that as advice for some future departure. I got the joke.
-----
Does anyone know if John Cole has posted about this at Balloon Juice? I only went two pages back in his archives and came up with nothin'. Taser-related death is one of Cole's pet topics.
xoites defends Constitution @ 67:
At least Papa Bush gave us Souter. Imagine if they'd researched him better.
This is a police state - what do you expect.
The WORSE thing you can do is challenge the authority of the police. If you do that - proportional response goes out the window.
Refusing an instruction can result in death. Now understand, if you did that, you would never get out of prison.
xoites defends Constitution @ 72:
Ya know x, I feel warm and fuzzy all over knowing that you care. : )
This is the new USA. Do what the cops say or get tortured until you do.
Karen @ 74:
I encourage them to do better research. Especially the history books and the Constitution.
And you could help direct them to the proper Law Library.
anon @ 75:
Heard of the Neighborhood Safety Zones in Washington, D.C.?
Karen @ 79:
No, do tell.
Tazed Off @ 77:
My strong advice to anyone is to do exactly what the cops say and deal with the judge in court.
smitht @ 80:
Not the best source, but...
smitht @ 80:
Click my name. And click here.
Robinson @ 54:
Ya, I really cry for Topeka KS. Not Detroit, NY, DC, Miami, SF, Chicago, Mnnpls, or the other 40 cities worse than Topeka. Anyway, NOBODY is commenting on the inability of these officers to follow the approved protical for violent intervention. This is clearly a case of civil servants not following the rules they have been trained for.
My aunt was a cop near DC in the 70s. She worked mostly in dispatch but many times was allowed to go on patrol with the boys. She used to tell me about how often drunks brought into the station "accidentally" fell down the stairs at the station...
I guess in 30+ years we've evolved from pushing people down stairs to zapping them with enough electricity to start a fire. Now THATS progress, baby! (insert SpongeBob wink and 'thumbs up' here)
xoites defends Constitution @ 82:
good advice here in las vegas they will beat the crap out of you
paul @ 10:
you're a cop, right?
Just Hussein Of It @ 85:
It's hard for them to follow the rules when their pumped full of steroids. Bordering on a full on roid rage.
xoites defends Constitution @ 81:
With one caveat. The legality of a search or seizure can often come down to whether you "consented" to police action. Trust me on this, the police know how to intimidate you into saying, "sure officer, go ahead," which will mean that you've consented.
I don't disagree with the practicality of your advice, but listen carefully to what an officer says. If s/he asks you whether you'd mind if s/he, say, looked around your car, it's a hint that you can (and should) say, "I do not consent." You have the right to ask whether you must do something, or whether the officer is merely requesting it. If you're commanded, do what s/he says. Otherwise, you can let your lack of consent be known.
Especially if you have a witness with you, it's best to have "I do not consent" as a well-heard phrase out there in the ether. It can make a big difference when you go in front of the judge.
karl @ 87:
I am in Las Vegas. It is good advice anywhere.
They had a police shooting here today. The suspect is dead.
Karen @ 90:
There was a case in Maryland that balances that argument with practicality. A black lawyer was pulled over on Interstate 95 and he refused to have his car searched. He stood for 6 hours in the rain waiting for a drug sniffing dog to show up.
If you are not interested in a serious hassel let them search your car. At least if it is your home you can watch tv while they get a warrant.
xoites defends Constitution @ 91:
xoites defends Constitution @ 91:
of course you know that by not responding, you are just going to make it worse. and longer.
?
Bonkers @ 2:
Um.... did you read the part where they said he became incoherent?
Look - there are a lot of travesties of justice but this I'm not sure this is one of them. First, Logan, stating that "he was guilty of being injured and refusing treatment - nothing more" is misleading. The problem wasn't him refusing treatment, it was that he was in an incoherent state trying to drive a vehicle. Driving in an incoherent state is a bad thing. Second, according to the report, he was injured in the struggle - specifically while being handcuffed - which aggravated a pre-existing condition leading to his death.
Tragedy? Hell yeah - for everyone involved. Travesty of justice? No - unless you would like to rewrite the law to stop police from holding drivers they believe unable to drive.
There are many, many abuses of power on all levels of law enforcement, but this isn't one of them.
xoites defends Constitution @ 92:
I hear ya, though, like your oft-mentioned stance about the necessity of civil disobedience, I think it's important for people to know their rights, and to invoke them. We can't just acquiesce to everything the police want.
By the way, I don't know all the details of that case, but if I were the defense attorney, I would have argued that the six-hour detention in the rain constituted an unreasonable amount of time, and thus a de facto arrest without probable cause.
I've had friends successfully prevent cops who know the rules from conducting searches with a simple, "I don't know whether you have the authority to do that, officer, but for the record, I do not consent."
living-abomination @ 96:
They had his car keys.
doogie @ 6:
The problem is that the cops didn't get the situation under control. They made the situation worse. The guy had a head injury and needed medical treatment. That was why his coworkers called 911. I don't know if you have ever dealt with injured people; but often times, they are completely irrational. Sometimes you have to calm them down and talk them into being treated. This is something you learn with even the most basic first aid classes. These cops are either too stupid to be police officers or too sick in the head. Either way, they need to be fired at a minimum.
I don't know whether or not this is a civil rights issue. That is up too the civil courts to decide. I think their is a much bigger public safety issue here. This community is not safe so long as these cops remain on the job.
Karen @ 97:
Not sure i ever called Civil Disobedience a necessity. I prefer getting arrested after missing sleep for three days so i can sleep through most of the process. As i recall the reason i read about this was the lawsuit that followed. Standing up for your rights is important but i pick my battles carefully.
As well as Earl Bud Lee. His talented son was killed by Taser by Nashville Police. No reason given for the use of such force; just seemed right at the time.
Tasering seems to be an easy way to exert control over another human without breaking a sweat. It is too easy. No thought involved, no need to talk. If police were allowed to kill anyone they wanted to at any time for any reason the price of bullets would be higher than it already is due to the Iraq war.
xoites defends Constitution @ 100:
A bad inference on my part, perhaps, but I have memories of your imploring people to be willing to be arrested when protesting, etc. If I've mischaracterized your stance, I apologize.
No argument there. I was just pointing out that one does not necessarily have to do everything an officer says. Doing so can even be counterproductive if the judge rules that you consented to an otherwise illegal search.
Karen @ 103:
Point taken and i agree with you.
We live in a police state:
Federal ID (papers comrade)
Check points in Wash DC (DC ghetto)
Police can kill you at will ( I know there are some good cops, buttttt he's dead)
The state owns you, you and your life are property for the good of the republic if you do not obey you will be punished
If you don’t like McBush doest care
doogie @ 6:
Using a taser is a last resort in place of using a firearm which is the absolute last resort. So this man was threatening them, life & limb? No, they just wanted him out for his own good & the good of others but maybe he was just to dazed to realize that. Police get paid to do some tough things. They could have held him in his car until he decided to get out or physically removed him. Tasing didn't have to be done. It's now the method of operation of lazy police.
I am terrified of the attitude revealed by law enforcement toward civilians. I am overweight, 60 years old, and do not want to die from being tasered if I someday give some police officer some lip.
It may go nowhere, but I've created a niche social network called Taser Talk where people who are interested can share knowledge and ideas: http://tasertalk.ning.com/
Who knows.
No criminal charges will be filed in the death of a Goodyear worker, who passed away after being tased by Shawnee County Sheriff’s deputies.
Everyone is missing the point here....There IS a Goodyear plant in the U.S.???
smitht @ 108:
Unfortunately, that's sorta funny, in a sick way....
If you give a young boy a hammer everything he encounters will require nailing. Pretty much all the research into the effects of tasing has been sponsored by Taser International and is therefore without merit. They couldn't block his vehicle in? Couldn't use much less lethal pepper spray. Couldn't talk to him? As the Vancouver Airport incident and innumerable other incidents have shown police use tasers first and ask questions later regardless of their use of force policies.
Lets see. The guy was suffering from a probable closed head injury, so the cops tasered him to death. Sounds reasonable. After all, this is Kansas.
no justice, no peace.
The man died because after he was rendered immobile by the Taser, the cops dog piled him and he couldn't breathe. It happens often and cops are never charged. In Pasadena, Texas, two Pasadena police were released without charge in the death of a prisoner who died because the cops dog piled him, breaking several of his ribs, which puctured his lungs and killed him. His crime? Public intoxication, and being Mexican. The cops always charge the victim with resisting arrest (who wouldn't resist four 240lb guys putting their knees in your chest) to cover their asses when the guy is injured or dies. There are cases like this all over the country. Sure, being a cop in America is a tough job. But this cop-mentality of overwhelming force in every situation is out of control. People are getting killed for no good reason. A good friend of mine is a criminal defense attorney who defends cops, of all people, in all sorts of cases. He will tell you, the only people more dishonest than the mob are the cops.
In '95 I had gotten tazed twice(!) even though I wasn't resisting. I saw that the cop just wanted to play with his new toy. What I got out of that is that these people are merely gangsters and thugs with badges. Under the badges, guns and uniforms beats the hearts of cowards, with the mentality of "us against them." Civilians who defend such inexcusable actions are cowards because they are too inept, and afraid, to take care of their own community. Civilians who are community-minded have no need of cops.
Will this help the paranoid morons who called the sheriff, and all the paranoid morons around this country who call the cops every time there is a dispute they are too lazy or cowardly to settle without running to authority, realize that they should call the cops ONLY when there is a serious crime involved? If this isn't enough, what will it take?
Obviously there is no way the officers could have disabled the vehicle while the "medical condition played itself out." (Sarcasm duly noted.) The police receive pointless calls (because sometimes the people calling don't know all the details...such as the medical knowledge of head trauma), but the police should be trained enough to resolve "guy won't leave his car" without having to paralyzing him--using a device that has potentially lethal consequences, especially when people have undisclosed/unknowable medical conditions. In Tort Law it is the "fragile eggshell syndrome", in ColonPal's world it is the Pottery Barn Theory (that he "never" actually postulated), on COPS it is another wart on the ass of society*.
*COPS disclosure: In this case there was an undisclosed medical condition. We never bothered to ask because we figured the perp would only institute his Miranda rights and we'd be there all day over nothin'.
What happened in this unfortunate incident has happened before.
"The coroner ruled that an existing heart condition, combined with the compression to his chest when he was placed on the ground to be handcuffed, led to his death."
Although not reported, one of the officers probably placed his knee in Haake's back after Haake was tased and dragged out of his car and thrown face-down on the ground to be handcuffed. Thus, the "compression to his chest" occurred from having someone pin him to the ground by jamming their knee into his back. Haake suffocated. And this has happened before in other cases, including ones that didn't involve the use of a taser.
Mick Fowler @ 38:
Exactly my thoughts - where was a paramedic? If the guy was incoherent at work - why didn't someone call an ambulance and ask them to have him evaluated?
And when the cops came - he was NOT driving - just sitting in his car. They told him to get out and he refused. There was no reason for them to do what they did.
Unfortunately, we have all our police becoming SWAT teams with all sorts of "non" lethal gadgets to play with as a result of the War on Drugs. They get money from drug raids and get to spend it all on new toys. They don't usually spend it on training on how to use the toys - or on how to NOT use the toys.
Just Hussein Of It @ 85:
-- What is their protocol for violent intervention? I'm willing to bet that they DID follow the protocol, in this case the tazer was probably the best tool to control the subject with the least amount of force and less chance for injury to the subject. In this case the subject had a medical condition that turned out to be fatal under those conditions - and the police didn't know. Contrary to popular belief the tazer is a good way to minimize risk to a subject - definitely better than being shot or beat with a stick or covered in pepper spray (which in this case probably couldn't be used because it would make it harder for the paramedics to treat him). Deaths from the tazer are pretty rare.
Richard @ 34:
If a taxpayer had done the same would he be prosecuted? If so then the cops should be as well.
Good article on "non-lethal" force in the current (June 2) issue of the New Yorker.
Karen @ 71:
The last sentence is the best thing I've read today. None of us have all the details, and none of us were there trying to deal with the situation. At best, we're Monday morning quarterbacks. Surely by now everyone should be well aware that the details the media decides to include - or exclude - can completely change the story.
From what I've read so far, I can't completely blame the cops. There's no indication that they had any idea of the prior head injury, or the heart condition. They can only act on what they see and what they know. Would it have been better to walk away and leave him in the car? What would the reaction have been if he was allowed to sit there until he passed out and then they acted? There would be just as much outrage about their inaction as there is now about their actions.
Sometimes, there are no good alternatives.
The police did not only taze the unresponsive man. They bound him in a position that compressed his lungs and prevented him from breathing. They killed him two ways.
living-abomination @ 119:
Contrary to popular belief the tazer is a good way to minimize risk to a subject - definitely better than being shot or beat with a stick or covered in pepper spray .... Deaths from the tazer are pretty rare.
You are talking about a 59 year old sick guy with a dickey heart and delirious from a head injury. The problem is that police routinely use excessive force and weapons on ordinary citizens. The problem also is that a large portion of the population has become so conditioned as untermensch that they think this is all right.
Read this; http://struggle.ws/hist_texts/wilde_soul.html it has some relevance.
No Charges Will Be Filed In KS Taser Death
Set faces on stunned!
124 Kald Says: living-abomination @ 119:
Contrary to popular belief the tazer is a good way to minimize risk to a subject - definitely better than being shot or beat with a stick or covered in pepper spray …. Deaths from the tazer are pretty rare.
Tasers weren't meant to replace guns and deadly force, but the nightstick (which you mentioned) and the choke hold.
Mick Fowler @ 109:
It should be illegal to taser an unarmed man.
Lots of unarmed and non-violent people get tazed because they fail to comply quickly enough to suit a police officer who is shouting at them to obey some order they may or may not understand. If the police routinely beat such people with night sticks and some of them died, society would be justifiably alarmed. How is zapping someone with 50,000 volts of electricity different? Physical force should only be used by police in self defense, as a last resort, never as a means of preemptive compliance.
I really hate these tazings, but assuming the story is accurate -- and that is a huge assumption -- about his coworkers concern for him getting behind the wheel of a car because of his incoherent behavior at work would make him driving while impaired (DUI) just getting behind the wheel with the keys in the ignition in virtually all states. So you are left with what are the cops supposed to do?
They are clearly going to arrest him for DUI. They will transport him to the hospital based upon reports of head injury and strange behavior. But getting him out of the car? Physical force, pain (clubs, tazer, pepper spray). If words can't get him to exit the vehicle.
Eric Jaffa @ 128:
What about non-amputees?
Yes, the cops should have allowed Mr. Haake to drive away in his poor health. That way, he could have passed out while driving and plowed into a group of children or other innocent people and killed them. Then, Mr. Logan could have written a more pleasant attack on law enforcement officers claiming they did not do their job!
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