A few more events like this one and we'll all feel better
By Steve Benen Thursday Jun 05, 2008 7:30amIt’s possible that Minnesotans are just nicer and more gracious than folks in other parts of the country, but the MinnPost had an interesting report on the Obama rally at the Xcel Energy Center on Tuesday, and the kind of treatment Hillary Clinton’s supporters found when they got there.
Specifically, the head of Clinton’s Minnesota campaign attended the Obama event, as did a few Clinton-supporting superdelegates, Minnesota’s Secretary of State, Minneapolis City Council President, and the mayor of St. Paul, all of whom also backed Clinton. Some were reluctant to go, but showed up in the interests of “political healing.”
And they were pleasantly surprised. In fact, both Barack and Michelle Obama met privately with 25 prominent Clinton supporters after the speech.
“He shook my hand and said, ‘Thank you for being here; I’m sure it’s not easy,’ ” said Stevenson of her meeting with Obama. “I thanked him and said that everyone involved in his campaign had been so gracious. I didn’t know what to say, so I mentioned that my daughter works for a federal health clinic. And he knew right away which program I was talking about. He said, ‘Oh that’s wonderful.’ ”
[DFL activist Jackie Stevenson], a feminist and Clinton supporter, had to admit this: “He’s very impressive.”
The report added that Stevenson had arrived at the event with another Clinton backer, and "as they were taken to their seats, people kept stopping to hug them and thank them for being there.... All of the other Clinton supporters received similar treatment.”
The St. Paul mayor added, “I think especially for women of my mother’s generation, it’s going to be very hard. They had waited so long for this (a woman in the White House). But I’ve spoken with a number of women like that in the last day. I think they’ll come around. You don’t spend your life fighting for women’s rights and then vote for Sen. McCain.”
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Yes, we can!!!
Well, that is EXACTLY the attitude (magnanimity, manners, graciousness and such) that the Democrats need to abandon in order to win in November. The GOP attack dogs eat people like that (hello, John Kerry) for lunch.
Firstly, glad to hear that we're starting to come together.
fastfeat @ 2:
OK, secondly...
True statement... McCain does not respect women. He's called his wife a c*nt and laughed at the word bitch. Both of these words are very offensive to women, especially the "c" word. McCain will eagerly appoint justices to the Supreme Court that will do away with Roe v Wade. Any woman that wants to protect and further women's rights would NEVER vote for McCain. This disrespect for women by McCain is what the Hillary supporters need to understand.
it would be hard to believe that after a while
any Democat would vote for McCain....voting against you own
self interests..... Obama to his credit really understands the
Clinton supporters.
ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner!
Yeah, but the GOP counter-rally at the Minneapolis Airport Bathroom put a damper on this.
Okay, I'm a feminist and gotta ask, why would any feminist NOT like Obama? Here's a guy who clearly has deep respect for women. He was raised by women, he married an ultra smart, charismatic one, he has two daughters.
Clinton supporters have a choice between him, and someone who dumps his first wife for a younger sugar mama, who he calls the c-word in front of reporters in one of his many rageaholic moments, and vows to overturn roe v. wade.
Hmmm, what to do....
Being a John Edwards supporter I have watched this campaign with fascination and some horror, especially as some Clinton supporters have said they would vote for McCain now that Obama has won. The strange component is that if you were at all objective and non-biased about it Clinton supporters should have known a couple of months ago that she couldn't win the primary at all. The numbers didn't add up for her with delegates, he had too large a lead. What happened Tuesday has been inevitable for some time. The idea that someone could claim to be a liberal or progressive or any shade of those at all could even contemplate voting for McCain is bizarre. Obama will win against McCain. He is going to pull young people in numbers not seen before and independents as well. The tidal wave heading towards the Republican party is large and getting larger by the day. As the man said "You don’t spend your life fighting for women’s rights and then vote for Sen. McCain.”
Hillary Clinton has reacted as poorly to losing what she has known she would lose as badly as a 5 year old. The difference is, she is supposed to be an adult. And she is supposed to care about the country and her party as well. This was a historic campaign no matter which one won the primary. There will be a woman President, it's just not going to be Hillary Clinton.
Lived there for over a year. They ARE NOT freindly. Very Clan like. Can only remember one persons name. My family has lived there for a couple decades now and I say good for them. I hope I never see the state again.
Great news.
We're all in this together. Anyone who believes in progress, equality and freedom...this is OUR time. We have a candidate who really is representative of all that is good and just about this country. A man that really does care about EVERYONE. There is no race or gender in a progressive world. There are only PEOPLE. Real people.
With all due respect to Sen. McCain, he is not representative of the future. His time has passed. If he will not step aside, then we must push him aside. The country has taken a distinct step backwards over the last 25+ years. Almost all the progress that had been made on women's rights, minority rights, labor, healthcare and education has been unwound, and the ultra right is still not done yet. They want to take this country literally back to the turn of the century. Does anyone with a conscience really believe that that is a good idea.
Let's get on with it. ALL of us.
And, lest we forget, in true GOP form, McCain returned to the states after being a POW and almost immediately started dating Cindy McCain - while still married to the woman who had waited for him and raised his children while he was gone.
Just one more Republcan Family Values Adulterer - AND he thinks he knows better than any woman what she should be allowed to do to her own body.
Add hypocrite to liar, cheater, and adulterer - the GOP's real values.
These older Clinton ladies would be punishing future women if they vote for McCain. I think when they calm down they'll realize that. They are the ones who have fought for women's rights, and they're not going to give up all they fought for just because they are disappointed.
McCain came down here to Florida yesterday to tell us he does not support the Everglades Restoration bill. He's full of feces if he thinks that won him any hearts and minds down here.
Could it be that the "Clinton supporters" who are so crazy are actually GOP Operation Chaos surrogates? I mean she is "counting them" in her supposed vote totals, is she not?
pissed off patricia @ 14:
"full of feces" heh, heh, LOL
I kind of wonder if the whole "angry feminists will vote for McCain" meme isn't at least partly a media construct. The make up more "news" than they actually report. It gives them something to froth about for a few news cycles.
Soundguy @ 11:
I'm from Oakland Ca, and have lived in Minneapolis since 73. I guess you most of hung out in all the wrong places. I find people here friendly and easy going. I agree St. Paul is alittle clan like, but Minneapolis is anything but.
During the PA Primary, I had Republicans request Obama information from me. They told me that they were going to vote for Ron Paul in the Primary as a "protest vote" and then they were planning on voting for Obama in November. PA primary is a closed primary so they couldn't vote for Obama at that time. These were Republicans that didn't want to switch parties but were not at all pleased with the direction of the Republican party. See, Bush destroyed his own party just like he does everything he touches.
"You don’t spend your life fighting for women’s rights and then vote for Sen. McCain.”
Quite true.
I'm GOP, and I'm thinking seriously about doing something I've *never* done before - donate money to a Presidential campaign.
Guess whose?
In other news the Bush/GOP economy continues to take hold. Unemployment reaches highest level since 1986. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy
Mavbe it's not the best time to elect this guy? http://youtube.com/watch?v=kqGWTh_NZ-0 I'm just saying.
Clinton feminists, do not get on the Mccain train. It will take you and all other women to a destination you don't want to be.
My wife and daughter are two beautiful, intelligent, competant, professional women. The three of us caucussed together for Hillary in Texas. This has been a tough week, especially for them. There is a healing process that will take some time... but I can tell you for a FACT that neither of these ladies (nor myself) would even consider voting for McSame.
That whole issue is is LOAD OF KRAP perpetrated and enlarged by a news media controlled by WAR PROFITEERS and UNSCRUPULOUS REPUBLICANS.
The Wanderer @ 19:
Let me go way out on a limb and guess. Obama?
This is great news and it does look like things will get better. But do you think it'll play at TaylorMarsh? There's one brave soul, cynicalindeed, on a Quixotic quest to rally the troops, but this is what he/she's up against:
"I hope William Jefferson gives him an earfull.
The clintons want no part of an obama ticket. Believe that.
Hussien obama is toxic.
I hope bill and hill both give him hell at this meeting.
I want her to ask how he thinks he is going to win and how he could decieve america while trying to be president. Also i want to know what he has against us bitter whiteys clinging guns thumping bibles with antipathy and anti immigrant and anti trade( a position he himself has,SUPPOSEDLY,hahah"
Now that I really look at it though, doesn't that sound like textbook Limbaugh? Maybe we will be OK once they discover something shiny.
I sure would like to read the transcript of that meeting last night with Obama and Clinton.
Wow. I guess it's too early. The Obama haters haven't woke up yet to watch Jerry Springer and Maury while turning on their computers. They'll come soon to spread the negativity, doomsday and hate.
I made the mistake of visiting the Taylor Marsh site this morning. I would have thought I had stumbled onto a McCain for president site. I can't believe these people are really democrats or progressives. If this is what is going on in the democratic party I am afraid we are in big trouble. Women had better get used to roe v wade being a thing of the past if McStain wins in Nov. It will also mean more war, death and blood on the hands of Americans.
How long before the first a-hole shows up here bashing Clinton?
6,5,4,3,
Caliber @ 24:
Hannity is having daily reruns on his program, insert different guests when possible.
Mc Bush to appear at private fundraiser at Jungle Island in Miami this morning. Protesters welcome.
From Nicole Sandler's (AM940)blog:
"John McCain is in South Florida, holding a fundraiser at Jungle Island today (the park formerly known as Parrot Jungle, then Parrot Jungle Island, now only Jungle Island, eventhough they still have a lot of parrots, who bite, by the way....).
Numerous protests are planned this morning, with start times from 9:30-10:30, all meeting outside the main entrance of Jungle Island...."
Back when I donated for the first time in my life to a presidential candidate, I sent $25 to Edwards because I felt he was the best choice for the job - simply because he "got it". Lately, more and more, for the first time in my life, I'm feeling like we can do this thing, that we can flush the stench of the past 7.5 years away.
Granted it will take time. A lot of time. But every journey begins with a single step.
I just made sure Obama has 100 steps in the right direction. Let's make sure we do what's right this time.
Don Davis @ 7:
"..the party of wide stances and narrow minds..."
I like it!
Soundguy @ 11:
I lived there also, and never liked it, very unfriendly and very closed, looked at you with big eyes if you were with your same sex partner. I couldn't wait to get out of there, I lived in the same neighborhood for two years and not one neighbor so much as spoke, when we tried to start converstions their input would be "yes" or "no". I thought it was just me and the fact I was gay, maybe not, maybe thats just the way they are. My partner and I have moved to the deep south and the treatment here is 180 degrees different, southerners are friendly and mind their business, very live and let live.
mudshark hussein @ 28:
Or,
How long before the first a-hole shows up here bashing Obama?
6,5,4,3,
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Dr. (Bitter Hussein) Matt @ 34:
Why even ask stuff like that at all? I think that's the better question. Setting yourself up for it certainly doesn't stop it from happening.
mudshark hussein @ 28:
Its not about Hillary anymore, its about defeating McStain and the rest of the neocon thugs. Hillary is a democrat, not the enemy.
I was a Clinton supporter. I'm (God help me) 45 years old and I guess you could probably classify me as a feminist. But vote for McCain??? We maybe "older" but we sure as hell ain't stupid. Besides, that young Obama is kinda cute! I'm glad this is all over because it was getting painful and ugly. Now we can just get together and do the right thing.
Left&Left @ 26:
Keep that smile on your face and don't let anyone steal it away today. From now on I'm going to look at anything negative they say as empty space. Not going to let them get to me. We have got to create as much positive energy as we can as we approach November.
Tony @ 35:
Nope, but if it made someone think about bashing either one of them, then it was worth it. Some people have done themselves more hare than good by being so obnoxious. While I think we will all go along to get along with each other. I think some people won't forgive and forget so easily. And this applies to rabid supporters from both sides.
The problem with tunnel vision people who will support McCain over Obama because Hillary lost, is that they don't realize these actions will NOT cause any good will for Hillary in the future. If we blow this because of these so called democrats I will fight any future bid because we can't trust her supporters.
That really paints a picture of how poisonous the primary election was. Democratic supporters were surprised that they were welcomed graciously by a Democrat running for office. They were surprised that they were well received by other Democrats. As if Obama and his supporters were going to reject their votes because they supported Senator Clinton? I'm glad to see things coming back down to earth, and not a moment too soon.
Justice Breyer "It is not often in law that so few have so quickly changed so much." That was not a compliment but rather a statment regarding the Robert's Court.
I have never understood the need to do so but Jeffrey Toobin said it best in his book
"The Nine" "Above all, Breyer was taking a stand against the agenda that was born in the Reagan years, nurtured by the Federalist Society, championed by the right wing of the Republican Party, and propelled by the nominations of Roberts and Alito. Explan executive power. End racial preferences intended to assist African Americans. Speed executions. Welcome religion into the public sphere. And, above all, revers Roe v. Wade and allow states to ban abortion. As Breyer knew better than anyone, the two new justices, plus Scalia, Thomas, and (usually) Kennedy, put all those goals tantalizingly within reach."
Personally I don't want a bunch of men deciding what women can and cannot do with their own choices. The next Pres. will probably pick 2 maybe 3 justices for the court. It is a very big election for the rights of women. Women cannot afford to be angry. It will work against the rights of women in the long run. John McCain wants to overturn Roe.
diamondmc @ 37:
No , you're right. It's not about Hillary anymore. It's about getting her supporters to swing to Obama. And getting his supporters to welcome her supporters. Which I don't see as being a huge problem, for most people.
The rest can go to hell.
Soundguy @ 11:
Please come back...so that we may shun you yet again.
;)
greyhawk @ 41:
I question if any of these people were democrats to begin with. The remind me of my dad who claimed he was a democrat all his life, but never voted for one.
Shaw @ 9:
I made up my mind to vote for him if he ever ran after his Keynote Speech.
Both my husband and I cheered him when he stood up for his wife and children to the press saying leave them alone.
McCain has never done that...only called her ugly names in public and never stood up for her during the famous S.C. primary. Nope...no McCain....
How sweet! The Obama people all sound so warm and cuddly! I assume that this group didn't include any of the Obamaniacs who couldn't get on the Web and spell "Hillary" without adding the "b*tch" word. Bygones be bygones? Sure thing--maybe in December or so.
pissed off patricia @ 39:
What I found as a solution to dealing with the raving Limbaughciles is to simply view them and their world as a cartoon! Then all you have to do is giggle and move on to what really matters.
anyone paying much attention shouldn't've been so surprised by the obama graciousness...
that even those MN public servants were "reluctant to go" is, to me, quite confusing...
i need to know: just what is it that so offended the clinton supporters so much?
i have been called names like "hopium addict" and accused of being brainwashed and stupid...
the militant attitude of those clinton supporters led me to attach the name "clintonistas" to them...
in all these months, the obama campaign has always been above the board when dealing with the slights and jabs and downright nastiness that the clinton camp threw at them...
the charges of sexism, i just never understood...
pissed off patricia @ 39:
Good advice. I'll try to be more like you Patricia, but I won't promise not to fight back if I get hit in the nose by the negativity baiters.
Yesterday Candy Crowley (sp?)did an interview with Senator Obama. She brought up the angry Clinton ladies and asked Senator Obama what would he say to them. His answer was so perfect. He covered all the bases so nicely including the differences between his sort of Supreme Court choices and those of McCain. I'll not go through each topic he mentioned but if any of those ladies were listening to him, he gave them a lot of reasonable things to think about and consider before they pull the lever for McCain.
Sue @ 43:
Even as important Roevs Wade is, The corporations vs citizens is even a bigger issue.
candideinnc @ 48:
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Hillary's got a MySpace page "Hillary Clinton - 2012" Sure looks like she's committed to "party unity."
All you disgruntled Hilary supporters and Obama bashers, here's something to consider. Other than all the obvious problems with 4 years of McBush, the next prez will in all likelihood determine the tone of the Supreme Court for the better part of our lives.
Any of you who work for a living, are young enough to reproduce, need to eat food, drink water and breath air might want to imagine what will happen if the court is full of Scalias, Roberts and Alitos. Makes my skin crawl just to consider the rulings coming out of that court for the next 30 to 40 years
We all need to try to be as classy as our candidate.
mudshark hussein @ 44:
Well said. As Obama supporter I never got involved in the b.s. tit-for-tat battles. I listened to so called libruls attacking Obama on the radio (Sirius 146) and read the attacks on the internet. After Obama received the nomination, I was shocked by the victim mentality displayed by some of the Clinton supporters and the purposeful reich-wing-like attacks about him. It's time to put your personal choice aside for the sake of the Party and for the sake of the Country.
Being a woman, I'm a little put out by all these so-called feminists threatening to cross over to McCain or do a write in of Clinton. I also couldn't help noticing that many of them are years past child-bearing age so overturning Roe v. Wade wouldn't matter to them personally.
Way to stick it to those of us who do want sovereignty over our bodies.
The thing I find distressing besides people thinking of voting for McCain out of spite, is that the response from others is always an appeal to self-interest. The "it will hurt the country" and "your daughters and granddaughters" and "Roe v. Wade," etc., which are all in a sense appeals to self-interest of at least an extended sort.
Nobody has mentioned that in voting for McCain out of spite, you are sentencing thousands of Iraqi and perhaps Iranian children to death.
You've seen the photos of children with limbs blown off, brains blown out. You know McCain wants to continue the war. Voting for McCain out of spite means killing children to soothe your wounded ego. Very Bush-like.
The MOST I've heard along these lines is that a vote for McCain will mean the deaths of more American soldiers.
But not a peep about the thousands of innocents that will continue to be killed in Iraq, and the possible tens of thousands in Iran.
Pretty distressing to see that even among so-called "progressives," brownish people in foreign lands don't even count enough to have their deaths figure into the political calculus.
Voting for McCain is sentencing innocent children to death. What the hell more needs to be said?
Ron @ 53:
Second that ... and we all should dig deeper into this. It is complex but insidious and reflects a real shift of power from the people to the (large/global) net work of financial, corporate, and military networks. Because there is so much power/money concentrated in this group, it will be very tough to crack but doing nothing will bring more pain to the general populace world-wide - world-wide. A good first step might be to force the media to do its job of reporting facts instead of promoting "talking heads."
Let the sappy love-fest begin with me:
I want to hug every Hillary supporter and tell them it's going to be okay. We're on the same team. Hillary would've been a great president. She'll be a great ally in the Senate making history by getting us universal health care.
Dr. (Bitter Hussein) Matt @ 57:
mudshark hussein @ 62:
You plagiarized me. :)
rooth hussein @ 13:
I'm not a McInsane supporter, but you've got some things wrong. John was released from captivity on March 14, 1973 and did not meet Cindy until 1979. Of course his sexcapades were legend in the circle of Naval Aviators that were in the North Florida area at that time. At least back then he didn't need blue pills or corporate cash, an officers uniform with wings and a Corvette got you lots of action at the Jacksonville beaches.
Well, off to work. You folks have a great day.
Dr. (Bitter Hussein) Matt @ 63:
It was too good to pass up Doc. : )
If she says the right things tomorrow, Hillary herself can do a lot to mend the party. But she has to say the words clearly, from her heart and with sincerity.
Have a good one, mudshark!
fastfeat @ 32:
Help get the stink out of government... Roto-Router a Republican.
pissed off patricia @ 66:
I really hope so. I hope she can pull it off.
I guess what stuns me most, is the media, the Republicans, and the attitude that "being a woman" I must be stupid.
Isn't that what they're saying when someone says that women will vote for McCain rather than Obama.
And the Republican Machine is strong at work trying to reinforce that belief. McSame's first words on Tuesday night made it sound like he, a man, had to defend 'poor abused and not taken seriously Clinton'.
Rove was on TV the next morning praising Clinton.
How stupid do they think we are? It's an insult, a slap in the face, and so repulsive that I'll vote a party ticket for the first time in my 55 years of life!
candideinnc @ 48:
do not be fooled - MOST of the comments we've seen that are that far over the edge are coming from operatives, whether working for the GOP or for Hillary. It is SO easy to clock these people; they use 'bad' grammar (ever try to draw like a child? impossible) and say things that are designed to agitate.
I've been an Obama supporter for a while now but if Hillary had won the nomination I would DEFINITELY be voting for her. No real democrat would vote for McSame.
The Clintons may be alot of things, but they are true democrats who want the party to win in Nov. She will do the right thing.
Obama/Sebelius '08 could fix a lot of their fears.
Left&Left @ 51:
As tempting as that is L&L..just ignore them if you can...I'm gonna try to do the same.
I'm not gonna let anyone bring me down!
Site Monitor, haven't I spent enough time in the penalty box yet?
[I'll ask the site monitor who put you there. We'll have to wait until s/he reads it. I cannot reverse another site monitor's decision-Sitemonitor]
Paul @ 71:
Now that would be a winning ticket. That lady is one class act!! Not much Hilary could do to knock that ticket.
Bring it on!!
new word otter @ 69:
I've been sayin basically the same thing...Hillary supporters want the same thing as Obama supporters. Let get together and whup some GOP ass!
Nader wept...
Yes! A few more of those and a lot fewer John Aravosis'.
katy @ 50:
Katy...I think they were GOP operatives trying to divide and conquer...it failed miserably.
Granted a few may have been actual Hillary supporters, but mostly trolls on the GOP payroll.
katy @ 50:
"Hopium" addict - that's actually a good one! :)
Personally I'll take hopium addiction to 4 years of rageahol enabling. Much less terrifying.
Different Anonymous @ 78:
Yeah, easier on the ol' spleen too!
First, McCain is NO hero. Read his history. He is another Bush, failed in everything he did. Relying on his family heritage to promote his ambitions. He cheated on his wife and openly pursued Cindy who could have been ugly as a post but she had money which he wanted. He regards women as "things" to be used and discarded when their usefulness is over. That is no hero. The men and women serving in the failed wars that Bush started are the heros. They don't have famous daddys to help them. McCain is a joke. If people can watch McCain speak on TV with that ugly smirk and his lies and they can still say they will vote for him need to seriously check his history. But if you are a die-hard Republican and would vote for anything (re: Bush) regardless of their qualifications then McCain is your man. Thank God we have Obama!
I have not read all of the comments, but my friend from Minnesota emailed me
and told me not only were there between 18 and 20 thousand people inside the
center, there were 15,000 more outside who wanted to see and hear Obama.
The media somehow managed to not mention that.
new word otter @ 69:
Yep. It's important to vote Democrat this November. The trolls that are coming to this board are part of an GOP attack, pretending to be on your side and trying cause the Dems to fight among themselves. You can tell who they are by the simplistic 'logic' they use, and hate filled remarks.
It's the only ammunition the republican thugs have. Don't expect the wisdom of the ages from those knuckle-draggers.
I think 50% of the American people are on anti-depressants under the Bush administration.
Jobless rate jumps by half a point, ridiculous!
I don't think that many Hillary or Obama supporters have covered themselves with glory these past months. I pulled the lever for Hillary during the VA Primary but will happily vote Obama this November. There is no way I would ever vote for McCain.
I was a volunteer at the Obama rally in northern Virginia yesterday, and I can tell you that in the entire minute or so he spent praising Clinton, I didn't hear a single boo from the crowd, just applause. Seemed a far cry from her last speech, in which the cheer/boo ratio at mentioning Obama sounded about 50/50. I find it very telling, and part of the reason why he's the nominee in the first place- character and class.
[Deleted. Don't post in ALL CAPS. And that level of crudeness is not needed here, either-Sitemonitor]
I might add to my previous post that I have a long history of not getting my way in the Democratic nominating process. My choices this year went from Kucinich to Edwards to Hillary to Obama. Yes, Obama is my fourth choice, but he still beats McCain by a long shot. I think Obama will be a fine president. In 1988 I was a Bruce Babbitt supporter, so I've learned you can't always get what you want.
Numinous @ 82:
When I wrote letters on this site and others in support of the candidacy of Gore, and criticized the policies of Edwards, supporters of Edwards answered by debating issues. When I supported the candidacy of Dodd and criticized the policies of Clinton, the supporters of Clinton responded by discussing issues. Whe I criticized Obama and supported Clinton, the Obama supporters accused me of being a knuckle-dragging Republican troll. I haven't voted for a Republican for 30 years. But I, along with a whole bunch of other Clinton supporters, am waiting to be won over to Obama by more than sweet smiles.
For instance: let's see an about face on universal health care and no more of the nonsense about "no mandates." Let's see an about face on the openness to privatizing Social Security. Let's not hear any more talk about Webb, Nunn or some other right wing Democrat as potential VP.
candideinnc @ 88:
Regarding your concerns about health care, mandates, social security, Webb or Nunn:
Good. Those are actual concerns. Real questions. A big change from your 'Obama Bad. He mean.' comment.
Talking about actual issues is a GOOD thing. Don't just point fingers at someone and say 'I don't like him because I don't like him', and leave it at that.
If you have a concern, then you should talk about it. Empty, angry, remarks will make you look like a knuckle dragger. If you say that you're better than that, then show it.
Don't use republican logic or language. You're only helping them by doing that.
new word otter @ 69:
Incidentally, the first word of a sentence is normally capitalized.
J @ 85:
Ah luuucky! I would LOOOOVE to volunteer for Obama...but I live so daggum far away from any major city, it would be an expensive pain in the hooha to go to a rally...BUT I do donate to his campaign...better than nuthin I reckon...
I've written this before, but I'll post it again.
I would have preferred that Hillary got the nomination this time, and Obama in 2012 or 16. She is a wonderful choice to replace this idiot that has had his residency in the White House for the past 7 1/2 years. That being said, a couple things to remember:
1. Either way we are going to lose a powerful senator in Congress. That is a loss for the Democrats, unless there is someone in line that is just as powerful in the Democratic ranks.
2. Whoever gets elected is going to be marked as a failure. Sure, they will accomplish some things in our broken society, but this war criminal and his thugs have screwed things up so bad that there is NO WAY that we are going to get it all turned around in just four years. Hope I'm wrong, but I think we need to have a reality check.
3. Hillary is tough as nails. She is used to be hen pecked to death during her husband's administration, and I think she can work through it. Obama....maybe. She is closer to corporate control, but she has great ideas for health care and can possibly get some big things started.
4. And finally, there are so many pressing issues that no one person can turn them around in four years: immigration reform, loss of American jobs abroad and tax incentives for corportations to take the jobs abroad, health care reform, the Iraq occupation disaster, the oil companies and the energy policy of this ass-backwards country (again, controlled by corporate greed), the infrastructure of this old and decrepit country that has been ignored since it's first construction, Social Security and it's future, and the unfair tax burden that has been gifted to the filthy rich at the expense of our grand children and great grandchildren. These are HUGE ISSUES, and we had better be ready for the neocn right wing to fight us every step of the way. Their interest is not "what is good for the country", but rather what makes them profit and allows them to pay as little as possible to keep America strong and prosperous.
I think Hillary deserved a shot. She may not get it now, and Barack may be tossed in to the fire early than was necessary to finish these monumental tasks that can only be done with the support of a Democratic Congress and a public that demands the changes.
That being said, I was a Kucinich supporter, then an Edwards supporter, then an Obama supporter; just so you know where I'm coming from.
85 J
During the week or two before the last primaries, I heard plenty of speeches where Obama would try to speak well of Hillary, and hear boos.
Maybe now they're shifting tactics, although by some of the commenters on this site (not you) the message hasn't gotten through to them.
SouthernLib @ 76:
AMEN TO THAT!
Hulk @ 92:
I think Hillary deserved a shot.
What about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjldxdcGIo&feature=related
It real sad that an over qualified women would lose to a man with no experience. Kinda proves once and for all that a woman cannot be president.
I only watched the first half of that video.
Bud @ 96:
Their experience is comparable, although somewhat on her side for being older as a community activist.
I made my determination stylistically, after my favored candidates were eliminated. I prefered her no-nonsense business like approach to speeches to his revival tent style.
Hulk @ 92:
I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes we have to work with what we've got. We could have done a LOT worse than Obama, and to be honest, Hillary had a few issues that couldn't be overlooked.
The fact is, Obama is a strong leader, with a good mind and good ideas. That would be a huge change from what we've had.
He is not a scare monger. Nor is he a hate monger. He's a rational, collected person with a head full of ideas and plans.
He obviously knows how to put those ideas and plans to use, otherwise he wouldn't be where his is right now. There are those who say that he's only able to run for president right now because he's black. No. That's not true at all. There are a lot of people in this country who generally find black people scary. There's something about Obama that allowed him to overcome all of that.
So, while you make some good points, their edge is somewhat dulled by the things I've just mentioned.
A democrat is running for office. A good one. Support him and do your part to get this country on the right track.
Why are Clinton supporters surprised that Obama and his supporters were courteous? The rift between Obama and Clinton was created by Hillary herself, and she should blame herself for the nasty treatment we've given her and her supporters for it. I was always an Obama supporter, but I still admired Hillary, and even Bill. Then Obama won the first primary, and on came the attacks. 'Jesse Jackson also won South Carolina.' 'Lyndon Johnson passed civil rights act, not MLK.' 'Change you can Xerox.' 'I don't know if he is Muslim or not.' 'I'm staying in because Bobby Kennedy was assassinated.' 'Myself and McCain have the experience to be president.' And many more. What kind of slimeball tactics and attacks did Obama throw toward her? None. He remained gracious throughout the whole thing, and this will positively affect his legacy, which can not be said about Hillary. I am so sick of certain Clinton supporters saying that we are treating them unfairly, we are mean, rotten, etc. But I remember them regurgitating every Clinton talking point against Obama, as some of them still do, and I am just amazed and what little attention span and memory they have.
Bud @ 96:
Over qualified? Hilarious!! No facts, just pure bullshit. Grow up and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Most mature people realize that in life you win some and you lose some. Stop with the embarrassing excuses...Hillary is a vauable member of the Democratic party....someone had to finish second.
Here's something I also didn't see mentioned on the MSM, but it was shown on the Daily Show. They showed Hillary's speech Tuesday night. ALL of the crowd was behind Hillary, on what looked like bleachers or tiered seats. In front of Hillary was a roped off area with reporters with cameras, filming Hillary and her crowd backdrop. Behind the roped area were a few people milling around. No seats as far as I could see, they were just standing around and walking in an open area. It looked like a setup similar to a high school gym, although it could have been bigger, I really couldn't tell.
McCain's setup was similar - the entire crowd facing the cameras, the room looked much smaller than Hillary's.
And we all saw the crowd at Obama's speech. Sure hope those crowds translate into votes.
Bud @ 96:
Bull, this primary was Hillary's to lose. Had she been about something besides herself. Had she surrounded herself with advisors who read the mood of the country accurately and helped her relate to that mood. Had she created a back up plan in the event she didn't wrap it up by Super Tuesday. Had she reigned Bill in and refused to take pages out of the Rovian Playbook she'd be the nominee today and I'd have voted for her.
Her loss has nothing to do with her gender, it has everything to do with how she ran her campaign.
Numinous @ 99:
Right fucking ON, Numinous!
But, I gotta say (again) had Hillary been the nominee...she'd have my full support, no doubt about it.
" I think they’ll come around. You don’t spend your life fighting for women’s rights and then vote for Sen. McCain.”
Truer words have never been said...
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 103:
You are both wrong. It's the WAR, stupid!
candideinnc @ 90:
no kidding? thanks for clearing that up. signed, e. e. cummings
ysbaddaden @ 98:
... that explains so much.
And the bickering here at C&L continues. Meanwhile, McBush prepares to take over the controls of the Constitution Shredder.
J @ 85:
Yes I noticed this as well and have been wanting to comment on it.
It's undeniable who was the bigger candidate. (Not just because of the massive throngs of people)
Now why didnt that work for Kerry? Does BS just roll off the back of hope or something?
ysbaddaden @ 98:
Delusional. And that's why you lost.
tyler82 @ 100:
Some individuals have an unmitigated capacity for projection. And that is what we have seen from a few Hillary supporters (although I am willing to be they were anything but Dem to begin with). It was fascinating at first, I learnt a lot about those Hillary supporters by what they were attributing to Obama supporters, and let me tell you... it was down right frightening.
Left&Left @ 101:
You didn't address the point that a woman cannot be president.
Left&Left @ 111:
Hmmm. I'll take a guess that you're a ditto head trying to stir the pot. Not working baby.
Bud @ 113:
If that woman hadn't authorized the bullying, destruction, genocide, and looting of a 3rd world country, sure she could!
Slowly the Obama haters creep in (literally) to attempt to uselessly dirty the legitimate Democratic winner up for the Repubs. And of course when we stand up for our candidate we're told "don't piss me off or I'll vote for McCain!" Man are you people sorry. If Obama had lost to Hillary, I would NEVER vote for McWar. Pathetic.
Left&Left @ 116:
They'll have that vote on their conscience and karma for the rest of their lives.
pissed off patricia @ 14:
I've read more than once you telling the "older Clinton ladies to calm down". That's really insulting to all women. Maybe you should try to choose your words more carefully. It really makes you sound more like "pissed off patrick".
And Cowboy Bob @ 22 has it exactly right. I don't know any Clinton supporters, men or women, that will vote for McCain.
Bud @ 113:
And I won't address such a stupid statement. Her loss had NOTHING to do with her gender. He was a better candidate. More people agreed with me than you...It's called DEMOCRACY! Unless you want to be a selective ANARCHIST because you didn't get your way, maybe you need to RESPECT the will of the people....progressive people just like you claim to be.
Left&Left @ 116:
no i suspect you would have not voted at all if hillay won!
Bud @ 113:
That's not true. I will say that THAT particular woman couldn't be president at this point.
She has a long history of rubbing people the wrong way. Heck, people were joking about it when she was first lady! With her it was always about 'ME, ME, ME'. She was arrogant, rude, and self centered as hell. That's different from having a strong personality or being driven.
It's also important to note that she was occasionally a bit 'loose' with facts. Prone to exaggeration. It was also not beneath her to make some rather nasty 'suggestions'. (Does anyone here remember her strange comment about assassination and Obama?)
Her sex wasn't the main issue at all. It was her attitude. She was mean-spirited, occasionally dishonest, and often rather classless.
ysbaddaden @ 95:
That message will never get through to those like "The Dude" and "Left & Left". They are here only to agitate and it's been that way since they showed up. I can't believe any real Democrats are that mean and ill-tempered.
Numinous @ 123:
Amen to that. Run somebody like Barbara Boxer and watch us elect our first woman president.
i agree, and have said as much here...
some may have even been paid hillary supporters too... same deal, unfortunately...
i thought so too, actually... but then it got U G L Y...
Bluesage @ 124:
Bluesage,
If you and the other Obama haters(I call you that because ALL of your posts on Obama are negative) would accept some responsibility and acknowledgment that you too come to C&L with the same fighting spirit for your candidate, I'll listen. But to throw rocks and then complain when you get hit with a rock is the classic bully crying when they get their ass kicked.
Some good blogging going on today.
"Clinton's run has put to rest the myth that we are living in a postfeminist wonderland in which all that stands in women's path is women themselves. Like a magnet--was it the pantsuit?--Clinton drew out the nation's misogyny in all its jeering glory and put it where we could all get a good look at it. . . . Vats of sexist nastiness splattered across the Comments section of hundreds of blogs and websites. . . . As for the . . . pundits, thank you, Hillary, for showing us the snickering belittling of women that passes for media commentary . . ."
Obama's VP Dilemma
"But there is Obama's dilemma. Some day in July, Barack Obama will announce his Vice Presidential choice. And the story will be Hillary Clinton. Whether she is chosen or not. If she is not, Obama will be showered with "gratitude . . . because he has closed the Clinton parenthesis in our presidential history." And for a week, there will be stories dancing on the graves on Bill and Hillary Clinton. Obama will be answering questions about Hillary Clinton, NOT Kathleen Sebelius or Jim Webb or whomever. And he will anger a good deal of the Democratic Party - what I call the Clinton Democrats. And then there will be a week of questions about THAT."
well.... I hope all of the die hard Clinton supporters do vote for McCain,
we all know McCain leads the way with women's issues' concerning choice, family, equal pay etc. Yes, McCain the true leader on women's rights.
go ahead, vote for McCain, things will be soooo much better for you.
L.A. Confidential @ 133:
"
Look at my post at line 126 and see if you can say that again.
I'll repeat, it was not her sex that lost her the nomination. She was mean spirited, occasionally dishonest, and often rather classless.
Here is a quote from one of my earlier comments:
"It’s also important to note that she was occasionally a bit ‘loose’ with facts. Prone to exaggeration. It was also not beneath her to make some rather nasty ’suggestions’. (Does anyone here remember her strange comment about assassination and Obama?)"
There you have it. Some of the reasons why she lost the nomination.
Sexism had very, VERY, little to do with it. Grow up.
You trolls are so ham-fisted with your comments. Are you all that simple-minded?
Man, you guys are easy to spot.
tyler82 Says: ....The rift between Obama and Clinton was created by Hillary herself, and she should blame herself for the nasty treatment we’ve given her and her supporters .....
So she is responsible for the nastiness of Obama's bulling supporters? Only in Republican and Obamacan worlds do we blame the victims. On all Obamacan blogs, the hatred, misogyny and sense of entitlement promulgated by Obamacans was palpable. The thuggish actions of his supporters belies The One's supposed message and represents of the worst of Republicanism. You exemplify what I find contemptible in Obamism along with from his revolting praise of Republican terrorists like Reagan and his disgusting use of RNC talking points to denigrate a serious and real universal healthcare plan.
Mike @ 138:
You did NOT address the point.. what did OBAMA himself say about Clinton that is even remotely similar to the slime she slung at him?
Mike @ 138:
Perhaps you could recommend a few sites that would back up your claims here. I'd be interested in seeing how unfairly Senator Clinton was treated. See my problem is I can't seem to recall Obama exaggerating his level of experience (Bosnia), his record (claiming to be against NAFTA), going for the fear tactic (3AM), supporting McCain over Clinton (qualified to be Commander-in-Chief) or using the race card (working white voters.)
So you can understand my confusion. I figured Senator Clinton lost on the grounds of how she ran her campaign, not because of her gender.
tyler82 @ 112:
Left&Left @ 117:
Still not working
tyler82 @ 139:
Obama hasn't said anything at all. It's the fault of us pro- Obama bloggers. It's just the new and lastest rationale created for justification to be anti-Obama. We're the reason(latest excuse) that they dislike Obama and his policies.
Numinous @ 127:
Then what qualification does a women need to be president? If this is what your requirements for a woman candidate is then how can a docile woman possibly win?
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 79:
I'd have to argue with that. She isn't that well known and if he's going to pick another woman over Hillary - he's lost it!!
Bud @ 142:
I'm not trying to convince you. The will of the people is NOT on your side. I did notice that you conveniently skipped my comment at #125 in order to buttress your weak argument.
Bud @ 144:
I didn't say docile. I didn't even hint at such a thing. Remember that our words are up on this board in print. All someone has to do is look at what I'm saying.
There's a huge difference between suggesting a person being assassinated, and being assertive.
You're not making any sense. You're an obvious troll, grasping at straws, and failing miserably.
You guys are so easy to spot. You smell of desperation, and I must say, I love the aroma.
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 130:
Hells yeah! She doth kicketh much hindquarter!
Left&Left @ 146:
i notice your writeing has improved since you answered my last post to you, i will say one thing for you your racist remarks about clinton and white people in general are one reason i was against obama , your not a very good spokesperson for your candidate , and im sure your one of the reasons others decided not to back obama , how ever im willing to concider obama as president and only hope you dont wind up in his administration!
missmarple @ 145:
He wasn't that well known a year ago. I'm betting that in exchange for his helping pay down her campaign debt Hilary will support any choice he makes for VP. Besides that, Hilary would be much better served in a different role. Just imagine the howls from the right if he nominated her to the Supremes. Now that would be fun.
Numinous @ 147:
Why can't people have a normal discussion without the name calling. It gets real old. Which woman do you think could make a successful run at the White House?
Bud @ 151:
Barbara Boxer, class without rancor, not all about "me, me, me", the iron fist in the velvet glove. Oh yeah I'd work on a Barbara Boxer for President campaign in a heartbeat. Now that's presidential material.
katy @ 132:
Maybe so Katy...but I just can't fathom that Hillary would stoop to such slimeball tactics like the GOP...maybe they were Hillary supporters on the payroll that took it upon themselves to troll for her...as much as I disliked some of her tactics during her campaign...I dunno...I just can't picture Hillary orchestrating something like that.
It's encouraging to see so many in this thread stating that they are female supporters of Clinton, and will not buy into this grudge against Obama that has been portrayed recently in the media.
Unfortunately, after seeing numerous other (and sometimes more ridiculous) "scandals" play out in the media for more than the three seconds they deserve, I'm not convinced that some of the more stubborn Clinton supporters will come out and vote in November; and if they do, spite might play a role.
We all must remember, though that opinions are not always the same in public as they are behind the curtain of a voting booth.
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