Countdown: The Impeachment Of George W. Bush
By Logan Murphy Monday Jun 09, 2008 10:15pm
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Ohio Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich spent some 290 minutes on the House floor Monday, reading Articles of Impeachment against President George Bush. Not that you would notice, as there was a virtual media blackout on the story, but Keith Olbermann ran with it right out of the gate on Tuesday's Countdown.
Constitutional Law Professor Jonathan Turley joined Keith to commend Kucinich and his impeachment bill, which is now co-sponsored by Rep. Robert Wexler. While Turley says there are numerous crimes for which Bush could easily be impeached, the President's greatest ally has been the Democratic Congress who have skirted their constitutional duties and consistently given him a pass rather than practice any oversight. It's clear impeachment will remain off the table for the remainder of Bush's term, but as Keith put it, problems like this will never be solved if people like Kucinich and Wexler don't stand up and say something.
Olbermann: "I've often argued here, that even if you don't think the words aren't lead to any actions, say the words anyway, simply to get them on the record for history and simply because, nothing has ever changed from bad to good in this country without somebody first saying, this is bad. Assess the importance of what Dennis Kucinich did last night."
Turley: "You know, it is very important. The fact is, that this is not supposed to happen the way it's happened in the last seven years. The framers, I think, would have been astonished by the absolute passivity, if not the collusion of the Democrats in protecting President Bush from impeachment. I mean, they created a system that was essentially idiot-proof, and God knows we've put that to the test in the past few years, but I don't think they anticipated that so many members of the opposition would stand quietly in the face of clear presidential crimes."
On a side note, major kudos go out to Keith and Countdown for beating BillO for the week in the crucial 25-45 demo!
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He wont be impeached, but the fact is it will now be on record that this was placed before the House. The real damage will be to bushs so called legacy.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ in Chiang Mai @ 1:
The real damage is to America, and to America's reputation. What does it say about a nation that claims the moral high ground yet refuses to hold itself accountable to its own laws?
My dad call the L.A Times today and complained that they had not run a single story about the impeachment in today's paper. He told them to cancel his subscription but they talked him into a $2.00 a month for three months and if he still did not want it they would stop it.
Yes, finally. Conviction is not the issue. We know it won't even go as far as impeachment.
But now Congress MUST GO ON THE RECORD. The crimes of this administration are no longer only captured by self-serving memoirs, public statements not made under oath, speculation, press secretary spin, etc. etc.
We have a bill of particulars. Congress may choose to do nothing in the face of them, but then THEY HAVE MADE A CHOICE and that's what needs to be in the history.
It was going to be completely unacceptable to let this slide and then have Congress come back on 2009 and say "oh, yeah, we would have impeached him if the gosh darn schedule had allowed."
Now, Republican after Republican must stand and affirm that such charges as have been leveled against the president constitute no, NONE, NOT ONE whit of basis for impeachment. I mean, it's not like he lied about a blowjob or anything, right?
Now we will have lawmakers on the record, forever, permanently, as having actually voted not to investigate this.
And don't kid yourself about the lingering power of such votes. Just ask Hillary.
Bush and Cheney will ride out of the White House without having been convicted or tried. No one has any illusions about this. But they won't do so without Congress at least getting their say.
We may not LIKE their say, but we MUST have it.
hey.....i wish it had a chance.........right... at least it's on record...i would settle for a consolation prize put the "turdblossom"karl rove in jail..let's get a dem in office then will pick some other fights right now the GOP is trying very hard to divide us...did you hear that hillary voter for mccain she didn't sound real and i mean no disrespect to hillary or her following.
They're reading the 34 articles right now on the floor of congress. It's amazing.
As bittersweet (and exhilarating) it was to watch Dennis Kucinich last night read off each count, I am hoping for a grass roots effort for justice. I don't think Congress will be compelled to do anything unless their constituents begin to demand for things to change. Like Bangkok Bob, I agree that the public record of Bush's wrong doing will continue to haunt him and his legacy.
I would also add that these public records could have the potential to at least inspire (domestically or abroad) to bring up these issues in front of the International Courts or to the UN.
Any other leader who has conducted him or herself in this manner would have been tried long ago. But it is a travesty not to file or sue for any charges against the Bush regime.
I hoping that at least the calls, e-mails and letters would provoke some other Congress people out of their stupor.
As for Pelosi: I used to be proud of her, but putting impeachment off the table has made me root for Cindy Sheehan. I hope it teaches NP a lesson for her reluctance.
Kucinich to push for referral of impeachment resolution to Judiciary Committee
Sooner or later BushCo will have to pay for their crimes.
Particularly good segment with Turley tonight. It pissed me off as usual. Someone needs to ask Pelosi and Ried why they are protecting Bush!?
karl @ 5:
Karl doesnt need to go to jail, he can avoid that by turning states evidence, he needs to sing before Congress.
Sing Karl sing, tell the world what you know.
All Hail Dennis Kucinich! It's a losing battle, but at least he has the cojones to fight it.
Hey -- what's with "Ohio Democrat [sic.] Congressman"? My eyes popped out and I had to find them on the floor.
[the typo is fixed. sorry! sitemonitor]
bajaboy @ 11:
No, it's been read into the congressional record. That's victory.
" but I don’t think they anticipated that so many members of the opposition would stand quietly in the face of clear presidential crimes"
They saw w and the corporate gop coming but never dreamed of the spineless, failed, dem party unity.
25-40?
No wonder he is a Obama hack.
Cafferty too.
Cindy Sheehan for Congress donations welcome
Code Pink another worthwhile cause. all sexes welcome
Dennis Kucinich is like the man in front of the tank in Tienanmen Square, while the rest of the senate is inside the tank.
getalife @ 14:
idiotic
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 15:
Excuse me, but Cindy Sheehan could do us San Franciscans the courtesy of LIVING HERE for a while before running to be our congressional rep.
What the fcuk does she know about San Francisco?
JasonS @ 13:
and a good start
moniker @ 16:
He is not alone, there are a handful of Kucinich supporters in Congress,
some vocal and visible, some hide for fear of repercussions by the status quo there.
JasonS @ 18:
who is she trying to replace?
JasonS @ 18:
As much as Nancy Pelosi does about the Constitution and her (failure to uphold) oath of office.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 21:
Dearest Sen. Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi
the reason we are here, today, discussing this is because Gerald Ford did not understand his responsibility to allow the law to take it's course...
in my opinion, we are again at such a juncture... and honestly it does not have to be now... but it must be soon...
all of the criminality of this administration must be exposed... and the perpetrators punished...
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 7:
maybe pelosi is saving impeachment for when it's needed?
*barely suppressed angry snark*
I give Dennis Kucinich all kudos for this act of legislative high drama, but I can't listen to his speech without my fucking head exploding! It sickens me to the core to hear again for the umpteenth time all the crimes of this administration and know that nothing will be done. Knowing that the opposition party (now in the majority) has their head tucked securely up their asses and won't do a damn thing to hold these jackals accountable. This is how the light of freedom and hope slowly fades to ultimately be extinguished. It's enough to make me actually regret bring my daughter into this world.
JasonS @ 18:
What the fcuk does (insert paratrooper HRC's name here) know about New York?
Now that is a profile in courage.
Rep. Kucinich was my first choice this past primary season.
He takes his oath to "preserve, protect and defend" seriously.
MY congressthing is Daryl Issa. (shudders)
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 23:
that's hard not to welcome. but new yorkers let hillary launch her presidential aspirations from their state.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 25:
Maybe just maybe, Nancy 'friend of Bushco' Pelosi is saving impeachment for Barak Obama when he is POTUS !
I mean just look at Nancy whenever theres a camera about and shes with the Bushco twins, shes looks happy and subservient.
Jonathan Turley for AG.
GOPnot4me @ 28:
Condolences my friend
IT IS GREAT!
It is being read in its entirety, LIVE, in C-SPAN. It will be on record, even if it does not pass, for future generations to see.
Dennis has BRASS BALLS!
Pennship17
Pelosi needs to be shown the exit. What a horrible choice she was for speaker.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 23:
Nancy Pelosi is a congressperson, (Speaker of the house) not a senator!
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 25:
Lol. :-D
Although I was glad for her as the first Madam speaker of the House, but, honestly she's a coward for pulling impeachment off the table. She and Reid knows that the list of charges is long and deserve to be tried. But instead, she's cynical like a lot of other Washington insiders. And even though I know it won't, I hope that Dennis Kucinich's action in Congress makes her feel very ashamed of herself for denying justice where it is due.
Tekras @ 26:
The sad thing about political appeasers is that they never learn from history,
I mean the case of the Reichstag and the non NSDAP politicians who either didnt stand up to Hitler,
or gave him support for an easy life or because they hated x more than Hitler.
All non Nazis politicians ended up sharing bunks in the early concentration camps.
And the Reichstag was burned to the ground along with the German constitution.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 29:
Maybe so, but that's no reason to choose Cindy Sheehan. As for New Yorkers electing Hillary, well, what can I say? We over here on the left coast recognize a self-promoting carpetbagger when we see one. Our state is full of them :)
lafin gas @ 35:
Sorry my brit brain has trouble with two active houses compared to one in the UK, plus the retirement one :O
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 32:
Thank you, it's been a chore. (Is your name Rusty Waters?)
JasonS @ 38:
Room for one more then.
If it doesn't happen now it will never happen.
I called today and asked if she supported child torture.
I was always told by the person on the phone "impeachment is off the table". I said that she had blood on her hands and was a guilty as Bush if she did nothing. He said "impeachment is off the table". I asked him if he was an idiot or a criminal and he said "I'll transfer you to the comment line."
GOPnot4me @ 40:
no, I just drink too much tea and coffee.
JasonS @ 38:
Yes, but in this stance, Nancy deserves to be challenged. She needs to be in peril of losing her seat for the collaborating efforts she's done with Bush Co. Putting off impeachment was the last straw.
The clerk is reading the resolution again on C-Span.
The vote is tomorrow and the dems will kill it like they did cheney's.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 30:
Though there's nothing in the constitution that says you can't impeach a president after they've left office, I can just imagine he howls and gnashing of teeth from the compliant corporate media should an Obama Administration "allow" congress to to spend time on impeachment with the shit storm of crises that will be left in the wake of BushCo leaving office. It would be a weight around his neck his entire term in office. Republicans will shout to the heavens how unprecedented and unfair it all is. The new catch phrase "revenge politics" will be associated with every good they try to achieve. The idiot masses would eat it up and in 4 years we'll be in the exact sane situation with a Republican majority in congress and Jeb at the helm. I'd sorely love to see President Obama flex his "Commander In Chief" muscles and have the whole lot of the bastards declared terrorists and whisked off to some secrete hell hole in eastern Europe to be tortured to death. How's that Imperial Presidency treating you now mother fucker!
Thank heaven for the internet, because all day long where I work (as receptionist at an amusement park/waterpark located in a National Park) -- there was nobeody but the Pepsi salesman who agreed with me that Kucinich was an inspiration... I could not even bring it up with the folks who are working minimum wage at two jobs and have no time for c-span -- nevertheless this was an historic moment for our country.
No it is on the "table" now as you can see on C-SPAN live right now. Here is an article about what happens next.
Perhaps this explains Bush's criminal tendancies.
JasonS @ 18:
Okay big mouth how about Shirley Golub? Besides do you really think living in 8.8 million dollare Pacific Heights mansion is 'living in San Francisco'.
Further, Mr. 18th Century on matter of national policy, the occupation of Iraq and Impeachment, all members of the House should be responsible to all citizens.
Nothing the Founders wrote or thought contradicts that.
Sir.
I have to disagree with KO and Turley on this. Much as I admire Dennis for what he did Pelosi is absolutely right about this. You don't start a fight that you can't win. If they did pursue impeachment they would lose. The votes aren't there. The Republicans would use this loss to attack the Democrats as being disloyal, divisive and unpatriotic in time of war. Furthermore the loss will be seen as a confirmation of Bush's policies and an exoneration of his crimes. This, in the middle of an election campaign, would be a foolhardy risk. I fear Dennis must stand alone on this, no doubt with some support, but he is the more valiant for it.
Tekras @ 46:
Long humiliating public trials with much hand wringing by the MSM of the crimes of Bushco is much better,
secret justice isnt good for healing the wounds, and reduces us to their level.
It took the elections of nov 06 and the breaking of the Republican power base to open up the flood gates,
we started to see people coming forward in 07 and investigations happening.
lafin gas @ 3:
The eerie silence from most media outlets is unprecedented in US history, can you imagine for example the 9/11 attacks going unreported? This is similarly astounding. I wonder what threats or bribes have been made in backrooms and corporate offices to achieve this blackout, have we truly come to the point where criminal influence of this nature is so entrenched, so powerful and so untouchable?
Keith also made a great point about the complicity of the Democrats in this appalling state of affairs, Pelosi and Reid are certainly violating their oaths of office by refusing to prosecute these presidential crimes just as Bush and his minions are. Her 'off the table' comment is a green light for further high crimes and acts of treason by the Bush whitehouse.
Where is cosmic justice? I need it now!
GOPnot4me @ 49:
Theres another rare Bundy in a suit photograph which is strikingly Chimpy too.
And dont forget Bundy was a Republican activist and party worker too, mass murder must run in the
org crimefamily.Later progressive peeps, Rain stopped and I'm heading for some lunch with friends.
Make noise, rattle cages and disturb some shit.
Perhaps this explains our collective suffering under the current administration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula
A.Citizen @ 50:
Thats one thing I love about living in the US, the principle that all people are created equal and have equal rights in law.
Of course local and various factors limit this in practice, but its a thing to strive and fight for, and preserve the principle.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ in Chiang Mai @ 56:
:) yes we will do. no sleep for the keepers.
GOPnot4me @ 49:
I don't know if this was ment to be a joke or not, but it plain to me and I assume anyone who's been watching for the past 7.5 years that our President is in fact a sociopath. He doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything except himself and his "Legacy". He has in fact shown the world, if you don't give me what I want I will destroy your country. He's said over and over again we will fight our battles on your soil to keep from fighting them here. He doesn't care how many innocent people have to die for his mistakes because he believes at some unspecified point in the distant future people will see his as a righteous man. The man is in my mind 100 fold worse than Bundy because at least Bundy had to do his own killing!
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Dennis Kucinich - the only member of the United States Congress who actually know, understands and upholds his sworn oath of office - to preserve and defend the Constitution. Not the republican party or the democratic party, or the president, or even the notions of the American public - but the Constitution. He has placed emphasis on the fact that we are a nation of laws, and if we don't abide by them in all instances, we have nothing. I applaud his courage for doing the right thing.
I might also say that Jonathan Turley rocks. He, like Dennis, is not afraid to speak the truth as regards the law of the land and the importance of the Constitution. I wish he was on MSNBC to comment more often - and NBC, too, so more Americans could get the real picture of how the Bush creeps are trying to destroy the Republic.
I was troubled by the reasoning offered as to why the Democratic leadership and rank and file are avoiding this impeachment action due to an expected "backlash" against the Democratic Party. It's reminiscent of battered persons who will not make a complaint or bring charges for fear that the next beating will be worse than the last. In other words, the Republicans have been beating the Democrats for so long, that the fear of bringing charges brings the fear that the republicans will become angry and the next beating will be even worse. Are we huddled in a corner quaking with fear?
I do understand the need to attempt to work with the Republicans once the Democrats are in office and the difficulty posed by a pending impeachment and the polarization that may cause. But, truly, do we ignore very serious alleged violations of law which may have resulted in the death and destruction of many American families.
I don't know how decent law abiding public servants from either party can walk away from this issue without very serious deliberation and public debate. The American people are, at least owed that. The service men and women and their families are owed so much more.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 44:
No doubt, and I'll vote against her if a QUALIFIED CANDIDATE runs. Cindy Sheehan? Please.
impeach him now....or indict him later.
"While Turley says there are numerous crimes for which Bush could easily be impeached, the President’s greatest ally has been the Democratic Congress who have skirted their constitutional duties and consistently given him a pass rather than practice any oversight. It’s clear impeachment will remain off the table for the remainder of Bush’s term..."
Maybe impeachment is not an option right now because it's not an option ever, assuming there is no chargeable crime, no matter the level of desire.
Tekras @ 59:
Not a joke, unfortunately for our beloved nation. One killed dozens, the other, countless thousands.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 44:
LIEberman, Reid, Pelosi.... are they really supposed to be the opposition party????? I've had to stay away from the thread for a spell. this nightmare keeps getting worse.
I am not of the opinion that getting the articles of impeachment into the record is in any way sufficient. how the fuck could it be? with the phase 2 senate report in hand, the fickung bastards should be frogmarched! Instead, we're here contemplating that fickung WH asshole initiating martial law, as if our other 'defenders of the constitution' are just going to sit on their goddamned hands.
A.Citizen @ 50:
> Besides do you really think living in 8.8 million dollare
> Pacific Heights mansion is 'living in San Francisco'.
Oh, right, and were is Cindy Sheehan's place? Please. My thesis statement is that Cindy Sheehan does not make a worthy replacement.
Just because Nancy has been a piss poor speaker doesn't mean we should vote for whatever random protest candidate throws up a tent.
Wanna beat Nancy? Put up a real candidate. I'll vote her. Really. Nancy has been an embarassment.
But Sheehan will be worse.
I'm sick of politics interfering with the LAW.
This is the ultimate example of the failure of our system. Both parties are equally guilty.
If the Dems are using the public outrage against Bush as an election tool instead of doing their jobs then we all lose.
If any of you are too naive to know good cop/bad cop when you see it... good luck.
"The framers, I think, would have been astonished by the absolute passivity, if not the collusion of the Democrats in protecting President Bush from impeachment. "
It may be because that if there has been a crime commited, the democrats are complicit.
Or maybe there was no crime commited.
"where the law ends, tyranny begins" -- john locke
take that voice from beyond the grave, the only thing that could possibly make a dent in this current race toward extinction known as the Administration...
we'd be better off if everyone with a high metabolic/magnetic field just concentrated on the imagery necessary to hex the current you-know-what... heheheh I dare alla ya.. you only need some salt and mementos, a few herbs and a candle...call on the four directions and poof! easy-peasy
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 67: Instead, we're here contemplating that fickung WH asshole initiating martial law, as if our other 'defenders of the constitution' are just going to sit on their goddamned hands.
Really?
hi, ferrofluid. I had forgotten about that republican connection with Bundy. Now I'm totally creeped out at the similarities between these two mass murderers.
It was a pleasure to watch the Olbermann and Turley segment. I don't watch network news, but I'm sure Keith's show was the only one that covered this story today. Kudos to Keith and Jonathan.
Peter G @ 51:
Wait a minute: As I recall, Pelosi pardoned bush/cheeeeeeeney just before she became Speaker. She effectively excused all past and future criminal activities by these crime families.
I, for one, want to know why the fix was in. It's way-y-y-y too easy to use the "not enough votes" excuse. She could not possibly know just how serious the crimes were, before she became Speaker.
What is the real dirt on Nancy Pelosi?
kablooie @ 71:
Sounds like utter bullsh!t, with no chance of success... but at least you try.
The Dems in office won't even go that far.
I'm glad Kucinich introduced this impeachment bill. Even if it goes nowhere, it will now be part of the record, and will show for history the outright cowardice of this shameful Democratic Congress. I think Pelosi's reelection should be off the table.
the american constitution is truly an amazing document. there's no ambiguity in it, it very clearly states when an elected official should be removed from office and who is entitled to remove them.
pelosi took this oath (I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God) and should join bush/cheney on the gallows. i hate to say it, but the country is doomed. that is the reality when your elected officials cannot or will not follow the only oath they swear, it's over. now it's just a question of when will most people wake up to that "fact"
none of them except kucinich and a very few others have taken their oath and followed what they swore to.
there it is, with nothing on the horizon to show any indication of change of direction. it is over.
Lollimom @ 74:
She has no power to pardon anyone.
calgarylady @ 73:
Yes very creepy, two sociopathic people almost twins, just different by scale and peer respect.
who does this sound like, how many neocons like 'f*&^ing Dumbest', or one of their puppets like Chimpy.
Antisocial personality disorder
Peter G @ 78:
The hell she doesn't. Read her lips:
"Impeachment is off the table."
Words uttered before she became speaker.
THAT is a pardon of all past and future crimes.
Not that it's a surprise, but I thought I'd report that there's been NO media coverage of this in Australia.
John H @ 72:
Really?
really!
Peter G @ 78:
Isn't refusing to even consider articles of impeachment no matter what the evidence effectively the same as a pardon?
This is beyond offices and parties, and I saw it happen when I joined with a friend and we enacted a ceremony calling upon the forces of nature to shut down local government so that a vote to clear-cut our city parks would be halted... we burned herbs and called upon our departed friends in the spirit world as well as the four directions to shut down local government. Well, within a week, two historically unprecedented ice storms hammered our city... the thing we learned was that if we were willing to suffer (we were out of electricity and homeless for weeks) then we could at least slow down the process.
I encourage this method as a necessary last resort. If the country's resources are caught up in dealing with natural disasters, then eventually the national focus will turn toward repairing our shattered country.
Tekras @ 84:
Yes, of course, that was my point. Thanks for "getting" it.
I'm sorry for the sloppy deletion of HTML tags in my response...I hate it when others do that.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 76:
I hope your dream comes true when, years from now, with all these crimes on the record, you can answer this question...
"Grandma, what the hell was wrong with you people?"
Tekras @ 84:
I'm with you on that. Buyt I wonder if the same people who told kerry and gore not to complain are telling the same thing to her. after all it's a millionaire's club in ther these days.
JasonS @ 68:
'piss poor speaker' is the least of the crimes, hers and her fellows failure to uphold their oaths of office is the worst.
Its like McCain being a dumb Senator, if the majority of the Arizona voters want to elect an idiot to the Senate, thats their problem,
he can do minimal damage as long as his fellow senators humor him and limit his actions.
McCain as POTUS would be a F&^%ing disaster after eight years of Chimpy.
Lynda from DownUnder @ 82:
There is none in the New York Times either.
If only Kucinich could have introduced a blue dress as evidence.
Just reading this thread is getting my blood pressure into dangerous territory! I remember during the Monica Lewinski fiasco the Republicans were all saying - 'Let's just have the hearing so we can hear all of the facts'. Now the Democratic leadership has said - 'No matter what the facts, we don't want to hear it'. I would rather see this country ripped apart in a bloody civil war than slowly and gently lead down the road where powerful men can break the law and nothing comes of it. I am certain that 200 years from now historians will point out - here is where the decline and fall of America began.
Tekras @ 92:
Here here!
Lynda from DownUnder @ 82:
Nothing on the BBC's News website either, but today is a day in front of the US.
Not they do have a new report on the missing Iraq billions,
now the figure is TWENTY THREE BILLION DOLLARS missing or unaccounted for ! :O
But there seems to be problems with the American MSM reporting this...
Alice Hussein Chomsky Nader @ 31:
Second!!
Yes, let's continue to play it safe and not ruffle any Republican feathers -- when he declares martial law it's all over baby. Don't tread on me and strike while the iron is hot.
Pelosi and the democrats refusing to chimp peach shows they are all sleeping in the same bed. They ALL need to all be kicked out, and term limits need to be set on all publicly elected officials... two terms and bye bye. No matter what. Bye. Leave. Go. And they cant vote to change the term limits anymore. Get out. They have destroyed our country and its in plain view at this point as the dollar tanks, the almighty dollar collapsing says SO much in itself.
But it is too late, the US had a chance to show the world we do something about lies used to start wars, instead they are left shaking their heads knowing that a blowjob is more important to our country than killing. Only in m'erica. We are fading fast.
I commend Kucinich none the less. Maybe we can carry him on our shoulders to the white house one day.
mike @ 78:
I agree that Ms. Pelosi should be in the dock with George and Dick, but 10 years at hard labor would be about right for her. Let's reserve the death penalty for those most deserving.
It took two decades to start legal proceedings against Pinochet. Bush is infinately worse. Regardless of the time involved we still have to hound the bush crime family until justice prevails.
JasonS @ 64:
Somebody has to challenge the incumbents. I would love Jackie Speier to do it. But she's in Tom Lantos' seat right now until elections.
Comrade Rou @ 99:
I'm sorry to say, unless something is done NOW nothing will come of this at all. Let us not forget, this man's grandfather was censured for aiding Hitler and nothing happened to him. His father conspired with Iran to hold American hostages until Cater was removed from office and nothing happened to him. If he leaves office without some sort of legal action hanging over his head, he's going to walk just like his forefathers.
Rep. Henry Waxman: "It may well turn out to be the largest war profiteering in history."
Judge Radhi al Radhi: "I believe these people are criminals."
US spending in Iraq ignored rules
and on a related theme of Republican theft and corruption
Federal credit card fraud
For the number challenged 41% of $14 billion is 5.74 billion dollars of theft and fraud of taxpayer monies.
Tekras @ 101:
Yes, that is why Impeachment is so important NOW before he leaves office,
and why Nancy Pelosi and her fellows oppose it, they are covering for the perps.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 102:
Yep, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
MSM continues to ignore his crimes. It's not who's playing the game-it's who's keeping score. The score-keepers (MSM) have failed the American public big time. What ever happened to truth?
unemployed @ 91:
I am sure theres some articles of clothing or Squishygate phone tapes in DC for sale by some Gannon types.
Even the Sean Hannity / Hal Turner private phone conversations were up for sale for $1.5 million recently.
kit wilson @ 105:
It got taken out the back and shot in the neck in 1980
kit wilson @ 105:
Just an FYI it's not the MSM ... they're far from "Main Stream". Try using the term corporate media because that's what they really are.
Kucinich and only a couple others seem to be the only ones who give a damn about the Constitution , US and International law and the Bill of Rights , the media is in with the criminals ... we are in trouble folks , if these scum bag criminals get away with all they have done we are in deep shit unless you think a rogue government / dictatorship and chaos is just OK . Precedent will be set , Democracy and the rule of law are as good as dead and so is the Untited States of America . These gutless unprincipled whores in DC have to start doing their job and go after these bastards , enforce the friggin law !
The power of principle, of natural law and justice. The day of reckoning is approaching. We the People are speaking and continuing to ignore your REAL bosses will turn out to be a very unwise decision. Brush up on history and remind yourself of the positions of those who appease the elite at the expense of the governed.
You can run, but you cant hide for ever. All the $ you looted from the ravaged middle class and exploited poor will NOT protect you from the justice that will track you down.
The opening salvos have been fired in the Second American Revolution. Join follow patriots as we fight to take back this country from the oppressors, be they NWO, Neo-cons or Quislings. This is the best armed revolution ever seen, armed with intelligence, purpose, muscle and the support of the rest of the world, the 2% will have no place to hide.
Try and pull the strings, try and suppress the dissent, try to suck out the last drop of blood. History has judged you an enemy of progress and will far more forgiving that those whom you have killed, bankrupted, lied to, mislead and oppressed.
You may be motivated by greed of money or power, we are motivated by justice and the natural rights of man. You loose - again.
Peter G @ 51:
Yes you do, if you're principled. Being willing to fight for what is right, even when you don't stand a chance, is a noble and courageous act, because it is an act of principle. Often, hopeless fighters inspire others to join the fight. This is how unwinnable fights are won.
Making the case for impeachment and, as JasonS says, getting some of these people on record, is a start. This, alone, is worth fighting for.
Tekras @ 108:
I agree. That's what they call themselves and want us to call them so they can maintain their sense of importance. The true media, the one people can trust is called the blogosphere.
Turley said: "I don’t think they anticipated that so many members of the opposition would stand quietly in the face of clear presidential crimes.”
I agree with his taking the Democrats especially to task, but Bush's crimes are a bipartisan issue. Both Republican and Democratic Congressmen have a patriotic duty to all Americans to prosecute crimes by the executive branch.
Peter Hollman @ 24:
yeah, i was stunned watching this discussed on olbermann tonight -- particularly the part where they said that obama will not vote for the bill either, but then, after listening to the entire show, it suddenly dawned on me.
it is not at all outside the realm of possibility that the dems shelved impeachment because bush is such a raving lunatic (come on, folks, he is, right?) that should impeachment be started he would do something even stupider than he has done to date and really screw the pooch in a way that we REALLY don't want to try to imagine. no act is too heinous for bush. i firmly believe that were impeachment charges to be brought against him and cheney there would be one of two things likely to happen. either an "attack" somewhere in the united states or an attack (and you wouldn't want to bet against it being nuclear) by the us against iran.
i was quite het up about this "impeachment off the table" crap but given bush's proven track record of insane behavior i'm less het up and starting to feel that maybe just keeping our collective head down to a certain degree until january 2009 might not be a bad idea. although this is to be taken in no way as any indication that democrats shouldn't fight like hell to win as many offices as they can, including the big one. let's just live to get there.
mrbill @ 110:
I'm going to print this and hang it next to my bed. Here here my good man!
Nancy Pelosi didn't swear to the office to only fight the fight she can win, she swore to the office to protect the constitution. That is her contract to the people for her elected position. Even if she was the only honest person in the house and outnumber, the contract she agreed to was to protect the constitution.
This crap about impeachment is off the table because she doesn't have enough vote is crap. How does she know what everyone will vote? What the point of voting if you automatically assume the other votes? Not only she taking away from the representation of the people to not deliver what the democratically system of the majority that elected her to do her job, but she is taking away the other representation right to vote and have their own say on the matter. She is no better than George for assuming the decision of others for herself. Does she think being a Speaker of the house makes her the decider?
paranoia @ 116:
Shes the #4 decider, the very loyal #4
wouldn't she be the number#3?
patty james @ 114:
Again, the battered spouse syndrome. If I let it go, just once more, maybe ... just maybe he won't beat me again. That's BUKKSHIT! Besides, what about the hundreds of thousands that have died because of this man? What about the billions our children are going to have to pay off? What about the innocent people in Iran that are looking at Iraq part Deux? If we let this jackal slip away into the good night we are all criminally negligent for what he's done and for what he may yet do!
patty james @ 114:
Jesus. This is what it's come to in America. How?
mrbill @ 110, your post was spot-on. We salute you !
Tekras @ 108:
as long as we're having terminology adjustment suggestions here, i have one.
no more "iraq war," "war on terror." we are not "at war."
the united states is involved in an illegal military action in iraq.
the military action in afghanistan is not yet illegal, although many unjustifiable actions have been taken, and we are there, ostensibly, to capture osama bin laden and ... actually, that is a good question: what is it we're doing for the afghanis?
al queda is equivalent to the mafia in that it is a non-state group engaged in illegal activities. how's the war on the mafia going, folks? it is simply not possible to eliminate such groups but it is possible to use legal means to prosecute them where possible and make life problematic where not. the "war on terror" will be no more successful than the "war on drugs" and the "war on poverty." all we got out of the "war on drugs" was a booming pharmaceutical industry shoving amphetamines into children's mouths and keeping limp dicks stiff, and the "war on poverty"? more poor people.
none of this is war. so stop calling it war. please.
thank you.
Someday somebody is going to write a book on this 'perfect storm'. It's easy to criticize the democrats and to some extent they bare some blame but the molding of this catastrophe was a long time coming. The architects of the Bush white house used mortar of lies and illegal behavior for years before the Bush run. This was going on all through the Clinton years.
So when we wonder why the Democrats didn't stand up you have to remember many did. Conyers got a hearing in a flag closet. Ted Kennedy fought tooth an nail every day of the Bush white house. There were a lot of Democrats that fought the fight. The meetings of committees chaired by the Republicans were held without the Democrats hearing about them or not being invited in. The Republicans used non issues to fight the issues. Terry Schivo comes to mind. This maneuver was used all of the time.
And there were new issues everyday. Which illegality was the one you tried to sink your teeth into? And when a Democrat did they were pulverized. Just look at what they did to Valerie Plame.
The Democrats were also facing a Republican Party that was manipulative to the max. They used people's religion against anyone who got in their way. The 2004 election had preachers and priest going onto the pulpit and demanding that people vote Republican because according to the Republican machine the Democrats would kill unborn children. The issue of millions dying in an unnecessary war was somehow skirted.
This was also at a time when the media was owned. Even NPR was being run by the guy (I can't remember his name) who hired people to do faulty research. And the white house allowed it's agencies to manipulate the media with false news in the form of real reporting. We had the Bush administration trying to take over the FCC. Thank God for Copp and Adelstein.
And we're now fighting a new front with Blackwater. Mark my words that is going to unleash so much crime down in San Diego area (where they are being allowed to put a headquarters), your head will spin. There are people who will consider Blackwater the enemy and they will fight it from day one. So we will have a mini war we never would have had if we hadn't allowed this private mercenary army to gain access in our country.
This is all the Bush administration. They took over the Republican Party, they intimidated the Democrats, they manipulated the American public for far too long and they made lots of money doing it.
Was the impeachment trial of Clinton a 'sure thing'?
The repugs probably thought so- they were wrong.
Did it hurt them politically? After 8 years of Bush the Second, it would be hard to argue that it did.
Do the Dems have a chance of successfully impeaching Bush? After weeks (months, years?) of evidence paraded before the American people I find it hard to believe anyone who valued their political seat would fail to impeach.
Would it hurt the Dems politically if the impeachment failed? Not half as much as it will if they do nothing.
The only real question- what can we do about it?
To all you head-scratchers wondering why Pelosi (D-Israel) took impeachment off the table: she mindlessly does whatever AIPAC instructs her to do. Don't you people know anything about your own party? A simple Google search on Pelosi+AIPAC tells you all you need to know about her relationship to that organization.
One word from AIPAC was all it took for Pelosi to go scurrying as fast as she could to strip the provision from a piece of legislation that would have barred Bush from attacking Iran without first seeking the approval of congress. So not only is she complicit in the crimes of the executive branch for failing to uphold her oath of office and hold the executive branch accountable for their legion of impeachable crimes, she will be complicit in attack on Iran as well.
AIPAC is fully supportive of the policies of the Bush-Cheney administration. They don't want either Bush or Cheney impeached because it would repudiate the policies that "the lobby" has spent so much energy advocating. That is why impeachment is "off the table." Take note of who the one poster in this thread is that has defended Pelosi.
This isn't rocket science.
One of AIPAC's useful idiots along to call me an anti-semite in 3… 2…. 1….
PS: The "backlash" argument is completely bogus. Public support for the impeachment of Bush-Cheney is much higher than it was for the impeachment of Clinton.
I don't give a dime for this man's legacy. I am so mad at the Democratic Majority, in this the 110th Congress. for not standing up to this criminally corrupt President and his administration. What does is take for this man to be impeached? Does he have to commit murder on the steps of Capital Hill in front of witnesses? When will they say that enough is enough? At what point do the House Democrats forget their political ambitions and remember their oaths of office, that they all swear to when a new Congress starts every two years. This President has stood up in front of the American People and the American and foreign press and admitted to breaking American laws and foreign treaties signed by past American Presidents. That is an impeachable offense. He has ended the writ of Habeas Corpus without either legislation or an amendment to the Constitution of the US. The Constitution of the US, Article One, section nine is as follows "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public safety may require it.". We are not in rebellion against this government and we have not been invaded. Article four and article 14 of the amendments to the US Constitution has been either severely restricted or rescinded. again without either legislation, which is not possible because the Constitution may be changed only through the amendment process and that ain't likely. Representative Dennis Kucinish has raised the banner of Democracy against this criminally corrupt president and his administration, we must also raise our banners and IMPEACH this President, lest future Presidents see this President as the bench mark for future conduct by our elected officials.
Sumerian @ 126:
How dare you, anti-Semite Nazi!
Just kidding. I agree 100%. The gov ties to Israel are truly disgusting. We are supporting genocide thru our military support of that completely fascist country. Is it ironic that a country founded in the name of holocaust survivors have bested Nazis at their own game?
Did I misunderstand something here? What I heard from Turley was that there is no system in place for the next administration to bring the Bush administration to justice. H
e simply spoke of rolling back the most egregious violations of the bushites and bringing back old safeguards. What? Is the law really this toothless, or is political will once again lacking?
I would think that destruction of evidence is one of the more easy ways of convicting the criminals running roughshod over the constitution.
Democrats heart Bush.
Demand http://www.fairvote.org to restore checks and balances.
Vote third party and for candidates who believe in the Constitution and support impeachment. This is the end game of our democracy vs. their corporate-ocracy.
Nearly all Republicans and Democrats are guilty or are shielding the guilty.
$23 billion missing/stolen in Iraq
$3.4 trillion missing/stolen in Pentagon
$2 trillion cost of Iraq
Iraq Increase of Gas prices
from $33 to $130 a barrell or $1.70 to $4.00
$50 trillion in unfunded liabilities
Now that the articles of impeachment have been read and filed - let's see what we - as Americans (politcal America - our senate and congress) - has learned when the push to go to with Iran comes up for a vote.
For the past year many of us have joined Rep. Kucinich in a call for impeachment. Most have finally given up. But it is not too late. Conviction and removal is not important. We know the Senate repubs will never vote for removal but imeachment will get it all on the record and force dems to make a choice, their comfort or the Constitution. DK has done his part and he has a strong allay in Wexler. Now that the primary is over, a big push on all the lefty blogs is in order. Ask every blog you comment on to make impeachment the number one topic and order of the day. Every day ask them to remind their readers that impeachment is on the table, and we want those hearings now.
Let's get some GOP members of Congress to co-sponsor a bill with the DNC to remove Pelosi as speaker and make way for an impeachment impeachment.
We may need to compromise. In exchange for (a) removing Pelosi as Speaker; and (b) an impeachment investigation and impeachment, would you support a GOP-leaning Speaker?
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 23:
You are allowed to have any opinion you like of Nancy Pelosi, but your ignorance is glaring when you refer to the Speaker of the House as a SENATOR.
bajaboy @ 134:
You are allowed to have any opinion you like of Nancy Pelosi, but your ignorance is glaring when you refer to the Speaker of the House as a SENATOR.
Babajoy,
Thank you for your attention. I was thinking your attention to detail might be put to some use in an important area. Would you be interested in supporting an effort to remove Pelosi as Speaker?
If Members of Congress do not vote for an investigation, we could start prosecuting the Members of Congress at the State level.
Some suggest that there should have been an impeachment. Perhaps we could discuss a mandatory system of punishment for Members of Congress refusing to investigate illegal activity.
Peter G @ 51:
That is crap. First and foremost, you uphold your Constitutional duty, and let the truth do the work for you, when you've sworn such duty.
Second, the smoking gun tape wasn't uncovered until IMPEACHMENT proceedings began, and discovery by Congress brought them to light. Once that tape was released, the Nixon administration ended very, very quickly after a long time of going nowhere. It wasn't until their constituents began to pressure their Republican Congressmen, BECAUSE of the evidence brought to light by IMPEACHMENT hearings, that the Republicans finally began to flip their attitudes, and Nixon knew he needed to leave very soon. In other words, if impeachment were off the table in 1974, Nixon would have served his entire term, noone the wiser as to the true depths of his administrations malfeasance. And Nixon ain't got NOTHING on this administration's crimes.
Finally, impeachment also stops Bush from pardoning his buddies while the impeachment process is ongoing. That is HUGE. That prevents the likes of Karl Rove (worked to elect Nixon), Donald Rumsfeld (served on Nixon's cabinet), and Dick Cheney (WORKED FOR Donald Rumsfeld under Nixon!) from returning to the political stage, and prevents them from being protected by an administration that approved of their illegal activities. Cheney's articles of impeachment are already on the record, and awaiting further action. If Bush is impeached, and quits, then Cheney is president...with no power to pardon Bush or anyone else. If he resigns, Nancy Pelosi becomes president.
Mostly, though, the country needs to TRULY heal. Not "heal", like Nixon's pardon did, giving us Reagan, and both Bushes. Heal through truth, and heal through real justice. All future generations need to know...or rather, need it affirmed, that anyone who ascends to the highest offices in the land stand to fall the furthest should they break the trust of We the People. We are not a nation ruled by laws if our leaders are not subject to those laws equally, completely, and without hesitation.
kudos to Keith, and also to C&L for their outstanding coverage...maybe with the news blackout, the impeachment hearings can commence without all that rheotoric and fan-fare of the right-winged ideologs.
.
FYI
"Off the Table" = AIDING and ABETTING.
.
.
To ALL apologist TROLLS...
Name ONE redeeming quality to TORTURE.
Name ONE redeeming quality to LYING.
Name ONE redeeming quality to FRAUD.
Name ONE redeeming quality to MURDER.
Name ONE redeeming quality to TREASON.
Name ONE redeeming quality to usurping the People's Rights.
Name ONE redeeming quality, JUST ONE!
.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 107:
quick, someone in congress subpoena Jeff Gannon, and ask him about Jack Abrahmoff and Karl Rove and the secret sexual liasons in the White House!
It is weird how none of the MSM covered this story. No reporters asking questions? What is going on here?
Everybody talks about congress or the Democrats not asking questions. But in my opion it is the press not asking and pushing for answers to questions. The first one being is this impeachment legit? If the press pushed this question all of the other hidden activities will come to light.
I think conviction is the issue. All of the players are just going to prance out of Washington.....Bush to Texas and Paraguay....Cheney to his new house....others to big jobs. BS Let them be convicted. Let them go to jail. Don't say let's forget it and just have it in a history book. Don't listen to Pelosi.....Do it!!!!! Convict all of them. This would unite Americans in finally doing some gutsy action. How much more abuse do Americans want to take and accept it? I'm ashamed of Congress not pursuing this matter for Americans. They should be ashamed too. Most of the media should be convicted for not reporting the facts...Novack, and other reporters...and journalists.
I have the application to change my voter registration to Independent on the way to the Voter registration office. That is just one thing I can do.
bajaboy @ 134:
never claimed to be anything other than ignorant ;)
Joanie @ 144:
It will not get into the history books if they are not prosecuted, other than as footnotes of interest to pro historians,
Chimpys reaction and deeds to 9/11 and Katrina, the two major catastrophes that happened on his watch is telling.
He froze like a rabbit caught in headlights, and either relied on corrupt advisers to fix his problems, or fussed about PR and message.
Every action and deed of George W. Bush screams the fact that he is not a leader,
just a frat boy made good and puppet on a string, John McCain is out of the same mold.
The perfect anti slogan and poster / tshirt logo under McCain's image,
'NOT a LEADER'
Even without impeachment, I'm glad Bush's offenses will at least go on record, thanks to Kucinich. It is terribly disappointing (to say the least) that Democrats, Speaker Pelosi in particular, chose to take impeachment off the table. While I understand their rationale, Bush's misconduct and criminal behavior is so egregious that principle should have trumped politics. In fact, I think the case is so strong that Americans would have understood. After all, both Bush and Cheney's approval ratings are in the toilet. And while I agree completely with Turley about the Democrats, I also believe that Republicans should shoulder the blame. They too took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution.
Dennis has put it our hands - I intend to notify my representative and find out why he doesn't support impeachment. I'll also ask Senator Dodd what he intends to do. Why bother with my other senator...
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