June 13, 2008 10:00 PM
Euro 2008
I've been trying to rest for a few days. It's not a vacation, but just a break from the insane pace that is known as the blogosphere. I still have to keep an eye on the pulse of things, but for the first time I started watching a full soccer tournament, Euro 2008. We have a great international readership on C&L---so if you're a "lurker" and a soccer fan, please say Hi.
I'm rooting for the Italians of course and I'm finally starting to understand the game a little bit. The ESPN announcers aren't too bad as far as I can tell. I don't know how those athletes run up and down the "pitch" like they do for 90 minutes....
hi! :)
Those guys have the cardiovascular system of King Kong.
I must no be a good American, but I would rather sit through a root canal than endure any sports event.
Who says only your "international" audience cares about Euro 2008? Fantastic tournament so far. The Dutch in particular have been scintillating, and in general the play is much more offensive-oriented than in '04 when the dismal Greek team won. Against all odds, I don't have many complaints about the ESPN coverage so far.
And let's not forget that the long road toward qualifying for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa begins tomorrow for the US against mighty Barbados!
Go Orange!!!
Segno Italia!
Go Orange, unless the Spanish get in yer way, ha ha ha...
Wuzup Hussein Dawk @ 5:
Oh, I'm cheering on the Oranje right now, but I just hope they don't revert to form and blow it in the knockout phase. Robben is one of my faves, even if he did play for Chelski.
Sorry, Amato, I think the Azzuri are going down and out versus France. I think that Henry is going to play the best game he's ever played in an international, diminishing skills be damned. If he loses he might retire from the French national squad, and I don't think he's ready to do that yet.
Being one of your international "lurkers" (I'm from Scotland), it's good to see football (not soccer.....) get a mention here....
It's just a shame we didn't qualify (but then neither did England so every cloud etc)
Holland have been superb, but I can't see past Germany.
Hello to all you US football (not soccer...) fans.....
i am italian and a soccer fan only when italy is involved in international matches. So far italy has performed very poorly which has been quite a shocker. Nederland is leading in the group where italy is. It turns out italy could have won the match with romania but for a mistake by the referee - i know i know it's an old excuse but it is true the referee himself admits as much today - but what is done is done - he disqualified a goal by toni because out of the zone, it turns out from video proof he was in the zone
to sum up since john is rooting for italy: need to win tuesday's match with france by a large margin and need to have romania lose its upcoming match - but even this might not be enough. We'll see. Italy lost badly against the dutch and a tie with romania so far
many rumblings and disappointment in italy
the uefa website has all the details
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/index.html
If Italy qualifies, it is undeserved the way they've been playing. netherlands is playing amazing, but spain looks to take it.. I would like to see Germany vs Portugal
Viva le Futbol!
I'm not into soccer, but I can proudly say that I am a de-lurker. Hi, JA :-)
micanio @ 9:
If you're going to bring up Germany, you'd better bring up Croatia. That was no fluke, the Croats beating the Germans. IMO, anyway.
numfar @ 2:
They can't touch the Tour de France riders, and that race starts in three weeks on Versus. The always gorgeous scenery in France as they bike over 2000 miles in 20 days is not to be missed. The mountain stages make me shake my head in awe. Superb announcers as well.
Now back to regularly scheduled discussions
Sorry, but Italian soccer is boring beyond belief. 0-0, 0-0,0-0, game after game and then the fucking penalty kicks.
Kongeriget Danmark 1992!!!!!!!!
Andy K Jong Il @ 13:
Very good point. I may have to revise my prediction after Germany play Austria. Still a lot of bad blood there.....(as with Poland too).
And remember kids, its football, not soccer.......
mirella @ 10:
Not so, mirella.
Romania has 2 points, Italy & France both have 1.
If Romania loses or draws, the winner of France-Italy will move on. If Romania wins (hard to imagine), then the France-Italy game is irrelevant. Goal differential can't come into play.
I am a hardcore American football fan. I was in Greece (Archaia Korinthos) in 2004 for 6 weeks and got to watch at the taverna each night with the Greek fans. My life shuts down (my wife will attest to this) during each World Cup. I am a proud Nederlander in heritage, so I root for Oranje. So far so good.
I've never understood why Americans don't follow the world's favorite sport. The drama, the national pride, the songs....
micanio @ 17:
If only we'd named our(US) version of football "Harvard" back in the 1870's (as "Rugby" is named for the school where it's initial codification of rules were, uhm....codified...) we wouldn't be having this problem. ;D
Andy K Jong Il @ 18:
Please stop saying that, it makes me hot.
Andy K Jong Il @ 18:
Ah, but Holland are already through as winners, so they may rest players, AND Romania beat Holland twice during qualification. If Romania lose, and Italy and France draw, then it will go to penalty kicks to decide who goes through (like Turkey - Czech republic). And Romania will also go through if Italy and France draw and Romania don;t lose.
So many permutations. This is why I love football (not soccer....)
odanny @ 14:
Tour de France? The New York Dolls used fewer needles.
joedugan itali boring fucking penalty kick, yeah you may have a point but we have the best BEST goalkeeper in the world that's why Buffon rocks
Ahh - the good ol' soccer versus football debate (it's called soccer here in Australia, despite the efforts of Les Murray and (the late) Johnny Warren to the contary).
John if you think Euro 2008 is good - just wait until the 2010 World Cup!!!
mirella @ 24:
I think Petr Cech might have something to say about that.....
I'm going now before I start hogging the comments.....
Andy K Jong Il @ 18:
Oh, yeah...If France-Italy draw, then Romania will need to lose by 3 or more goals for Italy or France to move on.
IIRC, the tie-breaking system involves a formula such as is used in FIFA's world rankings. If there's a 3 way tie, Romania is out, but I'm not sure who comes out ahead if it's a 2 way tie between Italy & France. :D
I think it's up for grabs this year with the more powerful countries (Germany 1996, France 2000, Greece 2004, & Italy) seeming to be closer to average.
I predict the Netherlands will win b/c of their offense, but I'm rooting for Spain.
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/
joeedugan @ 23:
The next time you bike up a 7-10% incline for 10 miles, tell me how ya did. And not every rider is doping. Many of the mid level riders win stages, and they do it clean. Many unknowns rise to the top for the day to win their respective jersey, be it yellow, green, or polka dot (that one being king of the mntns.)
Last year was the pinnacle on doping in this sport, the leader was kicked out on suspicion of doping for missing a test. The crackdown is on.
John,
If you're truley trying to take a rest, don't get into sports on your web site. Good Lord!
Betty
Soccer?
Isn't that the girl version of football?
;)
Spain or the Netherlands, either as a winner will be fine by me. Both playing the beautiful game beautifully right now.
Anybody BUT Italy. I hate that side.
And Andy Gray and Tommy Smyth are both terrific commentators, especially Gray.
Andy K Jong Il @ 27:
This how its decided.
1. Number of points earned in matches between the teams in question;
2. Goal difference in matches between the teams in question;
3. Goals scored in matches between the teams in question;
4. Goal difference in all group matches;
5. Goals scored in all group matches;
6. In cases where exactly two teams are equal in all previously listed critera and play one another to a draw in their final group match, kicks from the penalty mark will be conducted in lieu of the remaining criteria;
7. Coefficient from the qualifying competitions for the 2006 FIFA World Cup and 2006/08 UEFA European Football Championship (points obtained divided by the number of matches played);
8. Fair play conduct of the teams in the group stage;
9. Drawing of lots.
So if Italy and France draw and Romania lose, Italy and France will have:
1. The same amount of points
2. The same goal difference
3. The same number of goals scored
Therefore, it will go straight to PK's (see number 5 above)....
Now I'm definitely going.....
Hi guys,
love to see Euro2008 mentioned here. One other reason why I LOVE this website.
I'm a cameroonian (africa) and I live in Montreal (Quebec, canada). As real football fans know, we have a great team in Cameroon. The Indomitable Lions are known all over the world now thanks to their great performance in the 1990 worl cup in Italy.
Anyways, just a great feeling to be on a website like this and readings words about football. "The sweet escape"!
As for the Euro2008, Not being a fan of the azzuries (italians), I have to say that they are playing the most entertaining football in decades!!! The best games so far have been games Italy has been been part of. I don't agree they don't deserve to advance. The Nedeerlands have been good .. sort of. I Love that team, BUT, I suspect, they won't go far. It's not always good when things go really good for you in the early stages.
Take care y'all!!!
micanio @ 22:
You're right on the PK's, I'm confusing it with another conversation I heard on Sirius.
And I don't think Romania is going to beat this reinvigorated Dutch team. That 4-2-3-1 formation is working well. And Robben is playing excellent football right now. The Oranje are clicking.
Until van Persie and Sneijder get into another fight, that is.
American football. Isn't that the wuss version of rugby?
;)
Cesco:
Roger Milla! And who was that great GK Cameroon had in the '80's?
I am Italian, but Italy this year is not up to par, they are shaky on defense (they miss Cannavaro) and their forwards don't seem able to finalize. They may yet pass to the quarterfinals, since France looks even worse (and assuming the Netherlands play a real game next Tuesday), but they won't go past Spain.
Spain is the team I was most impressed with so far, their game today against the Swedes was simply outstanding. They kept at it for the entire game, while Sweden played a catenaccio-like defense that Italy has not played since 1972. Which by the way is kind of funny because when Italy plays good, modern defense, as in the last WC, people complain they play too defensive and "boring", but when other teams play even more asphyxiatingly, the TV commentators here in the US bend over backwards to praise their "muscular" game. Go figure.
Germany is always one of the favorites, but I didn't like them either, very predictable and they seem tired. I haven't decided about Portugal yet - this is their last chance to win something important, and I have a feeling they'll get better. Since Spain and the Netherlands will have to meet in the semis, I'll go with an Iberian final: Portugal-Spain. Spain wins, 2-1.
Welcome to the Soccer Nation, John. Euro is a great tourney to cut your teeth on.
I'm thinking that France will play aggressively, or at least more aggressively than Italy...That might play right into the classic Azzuri counter-attacking game.
Christ, this is a hard match-up to figure.
Me, I'm a Glasgow Celtic fan. Our nemisis is the Glasgow Rangers. Who recently lost to the Russians. And after a rather rowdy bunch of Russians calling the Ranger supporters all kinds of names, The Ranger fans proceeded to put 50 or 60 of them in the hospital. Not that I approve of this kind of behavior mind you. But I suppose the Russians could have been a bit more gracious in victory. Such is life in the soccer world.
The Dutch have looked brilliant, and Spain took the points at the death today. I'd rate them both to go far. Great attacking footy is what I want to see no matter who wins. And the US starts fishing for South Africa 2010 tomorrow against the minnows of CONCACAF - Barbados. Good lord if we don"t qualify it will be a crime.
i thought i had it down pat now my head is spinning; ok ok, rules are complex but why is everyone posing the scenario "if italy and france is a draw"? Italy needs to win, that's the first thing i said, a draw is not good enough! and i do not feel that strong about italy winning anyway despite my italian nationality, except when i hear obnoxious comments like "anybody but Italy" because then my dormant (at least as long as we have that ass berlusconi prime minister) patriotism resurrects and i feel a tinge of jingoistic roots
i would be ok with the nederland or spain winning, or croatia for that matter;italy has won so many victories in the past, we can pass on this one LOL and it will show the italians they better vote for a leftish party next time (nothing works under berlusconi, not even the trains running on time i don't think)
I'd rather watch soccer than baseball or basketball. There is way more action.
mudshark @ 41:
It's those crazy-ass green and white, horizontally striped shirts, ain't it?
Okay, right about now we need someone to explain the off-side rule...
...any takers?
no doubt that the best athletes in the world play football (soccer)
mirella @ 43:
Okay, I won't say anything about
fuckingItaly. ;DBut until that facist Berlusconi no longer owns AC Milan, that team will get nothing but raspberries from me.
Andy K Jong Il @ 45:
My grandmothers brother(Grand Uncle?) used to play for the Celtic wayyy back in the day. But he got kicked off for fightin too much. And Yes, I luvs me some green and white stipes. It's a beeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful shade of green
nonny mouse @ 46:
That's always been confusing to me. I think you have to have a defender on both sides of you .Especially when you're driving towards the goal.
Here's an even more beautiful shade of green, muddy.
Who's that that on defense? The team that's losing?
mudshark @ 50:
Two defenders between an offensive player and goal-line before the ball is played forward.
Andy K Jong Il @ 45:
When I was about 6-7 years old , my brother and I were ball boys at a soccer match in the Colosseum in LA. The match was
Dunfirmilan(Scotland) against Manchester United(England) . Of course my dad went and had Celtic uniforms sent from Scotland. You could see us miles away. And in anyone knows anything about soccer in Scotland, well,... lets just say when my brother and I ran out on to the pitch there was a sudden hush.
As we learned this weekend from Tim Russert: it's very important to take personal time, to spend with family, to spend enjoying life, and remembering all we have to be thankful for.
I'm thankful for websites like C&L that let me know I'm not insane an paranoid...and that also let me know I'm not alone. Thanks guys, keep up the good work, but first, take some time for yourselves. Everyone have a great Fathers Day.
nonny mouse @ 46:
its fairly simple, at the moment the ball is passed to you in the opponents half, there must be at least one opponent between you and the goalkeeper, or at least equal in line. this also only applies to someone involved in the play if a goal is scored.
Ole!
I'm rooting for Italy and Portugal to lose embarrassingly (I guess Portugal in the quarters unfortunately) and for the Dutch to win it all.
I've been into soccer for the last ten years, a Dutch friend of mine got me into it.
Anyway I'm rooting for Orange (nederlands) . I like their style and enjoyed watching them take it to the French.
I'm a born and raised San Franciscan and prefer Pro cycling and soccer over football and basketball.
I do enjoy baseball because of the pace of the game.
Here's a good site to find upcoming games Euro 2008
A Dumb-Ass-Member of the Republican Party @ 54:
Oops, I forgot to change from my snarky name to my usual name.
odanny @ 29:
All I know is I COULD NOT DO IT.
Doping doesn't build up the strength/endurance/fortitude by itself.
Discipline and hardwork does that part.
Both sports must be brutal to train for.
Andy K Jong Il @ 51:
Wrong shade of green Andy ;)
And for the team thats losing.(test?) both teams play offense and defense, depending on which half of the field your on.
Andy K Jong Il @ 51:
No that's Leo Joseph Nomellini (June 19, 1924 – October 17, 2000) was a Hall of Fame football player with the San Francisco 49ers. He was born at Lucca in Italy. He was a two-time All-American at the University of Minnesota and the 49ers' first-ever NFL draft choice in 1950 her getting ready to cream the poor guy in green.
By the way, if Romania loses and Italy and France tie at least 1-1, in the 3-way tie Italy goes through because of higher goals scored against Romania and better UEFA ranking against France - no penalties needed. If Italy and France tie 0-0, Romania must lose by at least 3 goals against the Netherlands for Italy to pass for better goal differential. France must win to pass.
The official rules are:
If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of all the matches in
their group, the following criteria will be used to determine the rankings in the
order given:
a) number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) goal difference in the matches among the teams in question;
c) number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if
more than two teams finish equal on points);
d) goal difference in all the group matches;
e) number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) coefficient from the qualifying competitions for the 2006 FIFA World Cup
and 2006/08 UEFA European Football Championship (points obtained
divided by the number of matches played);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.
mudshark @ 53:
Sweeeet! On the same pitch as Jackie Charlton, definitely...but was that before Georgie Best played for Man Utd?
mudshark @ 50:
'A defender on both sides of you'? No, no. The offside rule is simple. Roughly, if you and the ball are in the other side's half when the ball is played forward by one of your team-mates, there must be at least two opposing players (including the keeper) between you and the goal line. Otherwise, you are offside.
Andy K Jong Il @ 62:
yeah, were talkin 1965-1966.
If you are being serious, here is the explanation of being off side: When the ball is kicked forward, any offensive player further down field than the ball is off side if he (or she) is behind all the defenders except the keeper. Meaning he is closer to the goal than any defensive player. Note that this is when the ball is kicked, so once the kick happens the offensive player can run past the defenders. He does not have to wait for the ball to pass him. Perhaps the easiest way to think of this is by imagining a line crossing the field perpendicular to the sides. This line moves with whichever defender is furthest back toward his own goal line. The offensive players must stay on their own side of this line until the ball is kicked, unless the ball itself is already past the line. Think of this as the no cherry picking rule.
A couple things to remember:
1. The offensive player has to be involved in the play. Not necessarily playing the ball but involved in the play. (Referee's opinion)
2. Off side only happens on the offensive side of the field. So you can always be anywhere on your half of the field no matter where the defenders are.
3. In order to properly call off sides calls, you have to be looking at the moment the ball is kicked.
It could've been in 64 that sounds closer.
bobswire @ 60:
I don't doubt he's trying to cream the Golden Boy (that would be Hall of Famer Paul Hornung, born with a tomato on each arm), but that photo is from sometime after 1960('61 was the first year with the "G" on the helmet), and in Green Bay(could be Milwaukee)...I don't think the Niners won any at Lambeau in the window of time that we're peeking through.
I didn't know the attacker had to be behind the keeper - I thought it was just the defender.
There's more nuance to the rule than I initially thought. On the first goal Netherlands scored on Italy, for example, I thought the reason it wasn't called offside was because there was a defender behind the goal line at the time. But as it turns out, the defender that factors into the call has to be on the field - since the next lowest defender was WAY behind the receiver, it should have been offside.
Italy HAS to beat France to even have a chance - but they also have to hope Romania doesn't win. Going up a team that has already clinched in the Dutch, I'm not too sure.
if they get tired out there they can just act like they're hurt and roll around on the ground for a few minutes, then get up and run off like nothing happened.
mudshark @ 64:
We used to train with the Thistle in Santa Monica back in the early 60's. All the Scots and Englishman would get together on Sat nites and train then have a match. My dad would drag us along and all the kids would have their own match after training
Every once and awhile we'd get to play in the real match .Quite a few people would show up to do this. I met Davy Jones there , we're talking early mid 60's Andy
Hup, Holland hup!
mudshark @ 64:
George Best: My cousin used to play for the LA Aztec. and introduced me to George Best at his bar in Hermosa Beach ,80's
At the risk of being sexist (but since I'm a woman I guess in this case it would be okay), here's how the off-side rule was explained to me:
You're in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have.
The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses.
It would be rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes.
The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma.
She prepares to throw her purse to you.
If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes!
At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and "whilst it is in flight" you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes!
BUT, you must always remember that until the purse has "actually been thrown", it would be plain wrong for you to be in front of the other shopper and you would be OFFSIDE!
nonny mouse @ 73:
damn, this is funny! LOL :)
I'm pulling for Portugal, having spent the latter part of the English Football season on the Portuguese Island of Madeira, where Christiano Ronaldo hails from. Which is not to say that the Oranje side has been playing some brilliant football. Every day it's a treat. The extra time Spanish goal today was fantastic.
mudshark @ 72:
Perfect set up, muddy!
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." George Best
LucasGreenwood @ 75:
I've heard of this island. It's beautiful there. And they get great surf there too.
Andy K Jong Il @ 76:
they say he drank his life away.
ok I'm out. gn folks be well.
Andy K Jong Il @ 67:
O.K it's really not Leo the Lion and I kinda figured a Cheese head would point out that was no regular poor sap that was going to be creamed that was the one and only pretty boy himself , Hornung who
more than likely scampered out of harms way (as usual). Yeah I go back that far too......
When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high, and don't be afraid of the dark.
At the end of a storm, there's a golden sky, and the sweet silver song of a lark.
Walk on through the wind,
walk on through the rain, though your dreams be tossed and blown.
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone... You'll never walk alone.
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone... You'll never walk alone!
bobswire @ 81:
Oh, that means you're much older than me! *snark*
I was born in '65, so the best I got- for a looooooooooong timr- was the '72 team that won the Central division. So I found plenty of time to read or listen to dad talk about the old days.
But from everything I've read, heard or watched on film, Hornung was the best all around player of his times. He ran, blocked, caught the ball, passed the ball and, for quite awhile, did the place-kicking. The only player I've ever seen who could do all that since was Walter Payton.
And if the "pretty boy" thing was a crack...well, when I refer to Paul Hornung of THE Fighting Irish, I do the same thing. ;D
Hey, look at that picture agin, will you? I'm not sure where that picture was made. It looks like empty space in the upper-right hand corner, and the railing doesn't look like Lambeau. Is that Candlestick? I know it's not Kezar Stadium. Did the Niners wear white at home at some point in the '60's?
Dietrich @ 82:
A filthy Scouser named Dietrich?
Kidding.....
The best sport ever invented. There is nothing better than a Saturday morning in December with a bowl of oat meal and some cranberries and a glass of orange juice and a an EPL game.
mirella @ 10:
The refs are as bad in soccer as they are in the NBA...:-) A lot of bad calls...At least the analysists don't cover up for them like the American media does...
John Amato @ 86:
Let's not leave MLB outta the mix, Pinstripe.
I seem to remember the Orioles losin' a playoff game in the '90's. They were the visiting team, in the field, when one of the home team players hit one to the warning track, and the out looked like a can of corn for the outfielder...but then some kid, a fan of the home team reached into the field of play and hauled the ball into the bleachers. Shoulda been ruled an out- maybe a ground rule double, but iirc, an out- but the ump failed to call fan interference.
Who was that home team that benefited from one of the crappiest calls ever? Who?
nonny mouse @ 74:
I totally get it now.
Hey-up, the fabulous Mizz K - Yup. Leave it to women to explain in easily understandable terms what is otherwise a complete muddled mystery to so many of our male friends and colleagues. Of course, I'm not that much into shoes, myself.
Who was that home team that benefited from one of the crappiest calls ever? Who?
I remembered that, but I'm not sure that was a playoff game. Why do I think that? Cuz it involved the Orioles.
miss_kitty @ 88:
Oh, you silly, silly girls....
Well, the thing about soccer refereeing is that, like basketball, there are a tremendous number of judgment call/no call situations during the game, where a foul could be called or not, and referees must walk the tightrope of calling everything, in which case the game breaks down and becomes an ugly mess; or calling nothing, in which case the violence escalates... and the game breaks down and becomes an ugly mess.
I remember watching some EPL match (between a couple of the non-glamour teams) where the ref simply wasn't calling anything. Period. And, sure enough, things kept getting more and more violent; still no calls. I said to myself — a short while ahead of the announcer, who said the same thing — "if this goes on, the first call of the match will be a red card."
And, sure enough, someone finally did something so blatant and outlandish that the referee could not possibly ignore it; and bang! out came the red card. But frankly, by then, it was just too late, and the match kept on like that until the merciful final whistle.
(There were also a couple of matches in the most recent men's World Cup that fit that template)
But aside from the billion judgment calls that could go either way, there are the offsides calls; and while the referee does get help with those, the fundamental problem remains that, unless you are Marty Feldman, you cannot simultaneously look at both the back defensive line and the guy thirty yards away who might or might not serve the ball at any moment; and with players deliberately moving up to "trap" offensive players offsides, and offensive players trying to time their runs with split-second accuracy, it really can be difficult, at the field level, to get every offsides call right — and unfortunately, unlike the thousands of run-of-play judgment call fouls, which rarely impact the outcome of the game except in aggregate, offsides calls, by their very nature, come on the equivalent of fast-break drives to the basket; i.e., each offsides call comes on a play which has the potential to completely change the match by resulting in a goal or at least a prime chance.
So the job of soccer referee is one that is very easy to screw up badly.
cg the 2nd @ 90:
It's the last time the O's made the playoffs, cg. Amato knows what I'm talking about.
And I remember when the O's were going to the playoffs a lot. Also remember the year that my Tigs took the AL East from them('72). Hated the O's, Sawwwx, Yanks and Jays all equally, more or less. I want back in the AL East, dammit! ChiSox, Indians, Twins and Royals just don't seem like rivals!
[FIFY. SM]
Sorry, but it is two 45 minutes halves. A player does not run continuously, like in the marathon. Where the endurance comes in is extra time in the next rounds.
A player needs to be able to sprint at a moment's notice, but they do not continuously run back a forth. That would be nuts and only for eight year olds who have not grasped the concept of spacing out on the field.
Ah, the Dutch. How I wish they would win and bring back Total Football.
Andy K Jong Il @ 93:
I never understand why every league keeps separating Toronto and Detroit. Luckily I was too young to remember the Jays' infamous collapse of, I think it was '89 (not 100% on that). It's uncanny, and it's a natural rivalry being squandered - at this rate, I might be able to catch the Leafs play the Red Wings sometime in the year 2024.
This was what killed the Expos. In one league, you have the Jays and the Devil Rays. In another, you have the Expos and the Marlins. Why couldn't they switch Tampa and Montreal (or Florida and Toronto)?
Living in southern Italy for the past 5 years and enjoying Calcio very much, and now with DSL internet I get to watch Baseball and looking forward to NFL games on the internet this fall. The only negative game is the Dollar verses the Euro; I try not to watch that too much.
nonny mouse @ 89:
Nothing much. I just totally impressed myself by unraveling a big mystery. Too long to explain here, but I'm so cool for figuring it out. Apparently others aren't as impressed. :-(
That came AFTER the offsides mystery was solved, I'm impressed with that story as well. Just finished listening to Beethoven's 3rd and 7th symphonies...
Greece has been exposed! good riddance! Watch Greece go home scoreless
Move over boring defensive teams! Make room of the goal scoring offensive dazlers: Portugal, Netherlands, Croatia and surprisingly Spain. Move on up.
Germany, Russia, Sweden, Turkey, Czech will need step on up to nab their groups number 2 spots. I'm sure Germany will win over Austria but things happen.
Greece is gone, I am happy. Now all we need is for both France and Italy to tie it up 0-0 and have both of them get eliminated out of the competition.
Netherlands!! please tie or let Romania win so we can see both France and Italy get eliminated.
We must be in classic synchronicity - I'm currently listening to Hayden's No. 48 in C major, 59 in A major and 92 in G major. And small children playing soccer in the dark outside my window. Makes an interesting counterpoint.
So? Other than off-side shoes, what mystery did you unravel? I like mysteries, meself. The Butler! In the Library! With a candlestick!
Long-time lurker, first-time commenter. My wife is from Holland, and we are so enjoying the tournament so far. These jongens will really hit their stride when the knockout stage starts!
cg the 2nd @ 69:
The rule governing this situation is not 100% clear -- it seems that faking an injury to cause an offsides does not stop you from being a defender, so that's why it was not offside. Romania's starters may yet have a hard time with Holland's bench, so it may come down to Italy-France.
Of course, let's not get into the horror that is the "passive offsides" rule. Ptui! You are offsides, or you are not. Period.
Hi ;)
I'm Swiss, so the whole Euro has been a huge disappointment for me. Not that I was expecting anything, but surprisingly they played pretty decently, so it would have been nice to have at least a slight chance to advance to the next round. Now I'm obviously rooting for Austria, but I kind of expect them to loose as well...
Those passively offsides players, they really should make up their minds. But they are not as bad as the passive-aggressive offsides rule. "You like it over there, fine, you should stay there. Why should you be on this side of the defenders? It's good for most people, but you do what you want. Why should my broken heart matter?"
Hup Holland! Impressive so far, and against the two finalists of the last World Cup no less.
Now, the real test for Oranje will come when they have to play a team that's kicking them, headbutting them, and diving in agony at every turn. I'm looking at you, Portugal! Euro 2004 semifinal is not forgotten.
Northern Trombonist @ 105:
Or was that the quarterfinal of the World Cup 2006? Dirty play, anyway. The Dutch will have to rise above it this time.
Northern Trombonist @ 106:
Yes, but this time the Dutch have had practice against France and Italy, and likely Spain, so they're working up to dealing with Portugal.
hi.
The Italians may be done for, thanks to the oranje army. The only chance they have now is if they beat France AND Holland beats Romania; both those games are on Tuesday. If you're following the tournament, be sure to watch tonight's Turkey (yes they are considered european, for football "soccer" puposes anyway) vs Czech Rep. Its a must win situation for both, with only the winner advancing.
hello from germany...i'll be watching monday's game very closely indeed...at times there is magic here during the games and other times absolute indifference when they play badly like against croatia...
The English footballer Gary Lineker once said that football is a simple game in which 22 players run around after a ball and in the end Germany always wins.
Any questions?
Being half Dutch I can't go any other way than Oranje. Van Bronckhorst has been phenomenal!
Years ago my took a trip to the UK and asked me what I wanted her to bring me back and I told her "a soccer jersey". I wasn't really a soccer, er football, fan; I just wanted her to bring me something cool (the team didn't really matter).
Being a big Beatles fan, my mom went to Liverpool when she was in England, and ended up bringing me a Liverpool Reds jersey. I've followed them ever since. I also try and follow Ross County, a club that plays north of Inverness, Scotland. My dad used to live in Dornoch, Scotland the villagers pretty much all followed RC.
So far a good final would look like a Holland-Spain game. For the sake of the game, let´s pray that all the defensive, poor playing teams get out of the competition soon, that includes: Italy (as usual), France and Greece.
Spain should finally win this tournament, they have the top four scorers of Europe. Then again, we´re always the eternal promise that never gets fullfilled.
Go Spain!!!, we can this time!!!!!
I'm usually a Ireland fan but since they aren't in this I always enjoy watching France play. Thierry Henry handles the ball like no one I know.
Greetings from Ireland!
If you don't like the ESPN comentators, the RTE (Irish Television) is streaming all games online http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro2008/
Simon
Been a huge football fan since my young days. Played in the local club until high school and followed the New York Cosmos during the late 70's. My current local team is the Columbus Crew and spent several early mornings watching the US in the 2002 World Cup at Crew Stadium. Who knew you could enjoy beer at 7 am.
Have seen many Premier League and other English matches on Fox Soccer Channel and like Arsenal but the Liverpool fans are insane!
But I also love American Football - i think both games have similar atmospheres live especially when the fans are into it.
Hiya!
Lurking from Belgium since 2005. Unfortunately our team has not made it to a big tournament since 2002 since we lost to Brasil there. I'm not rooting for any particular team but I'm rooting for good football, which makes me take the Dutch side.
mirella @ 10:
With all due respect, but the goal the Italian team scored was offside. Way offside! And while the italian association and supporters know and recognize this, you guys are still raving about conspiracy theories. Please stop acting like everyone is out to get you. You made the finals in 2006 because of an illegitimate penalty against Australia remember :)
Wow, I'm surprised how many football fans care about the US politics... ;)
I'm Romanian and have been watching these finals closely. I agree that they got a bad call in their favor on Toni's goal but come on guys... you're the World Champions!!! Stop wining! You can't depend on ONE bad call!!! A lot of old players, just like France, who don't play as they used to. Ask the small teams around the world how many bad calls they get!!
And when you see a team who's players are worth ten times less then the opposing team's, and they outplay them, how can you not support this team?
But on a serious note... for the winner, Portugal and Holland seem to be the best pick. Spain has to prove this time that they can play well after the group stages, too.
I haven't seen football like The Dutch have been playing for many years. They remind me a little of the Brazilian teams of days gone by, I hope they can continue!
ESPN have been doing a great job so far. Andy Gray is superb! On a side note watch for the underlying tension between Tommy Smyth and Julie Foudy. They really don't like each other!!
As I understand it, if Romania lose to the Netherlands (by any score) and France and Italy draw there match then it's just the head to head records between France, Italy and Romania that decide who go through. So if Italy get a score draw verses France they would go through on better goals scored in the mini group. If it's goaless between Italy and France then I'd imagine they would draw lots to decide which of Italy or Romania go through.
hello there! ;-)
Being the Dutchy that I am, during World & Euro Cups I've always cynically challenged any other cheese head who'd start claiming the title after one or two good games, as we have a reputation of losing in a winning position.
However, after these firts 2 matches (Italy, France) I think the universe has shifted. Even under pressure (and making the traditional mistake of taking it too easy) the Dutch answer with a simple and effective solution...scoring more goals. I couldn't believe my eyes...finally e'thing coming together, all the talent, etc, in a new format:
- relatively solid defense, including HARD working forwards, aka an actual TEAM.
- formidable offense, with ruthless counter attacks
- they bloody love playing with eachother, hence they will sacrifice a lot.
Really, I haven't seen this since they won the Euro in 1988. Heck, it's bolder and better than 1988. So, with that setting the stage for this comment, I'm hoping the following teams will battle it out the next few weeks: Portugal, Spain, Croatia and The Netherlands.
Hup, Holland, Hup!!
(PS: watching the (Dutch) matches in the pub is the best. So if you're near Amsterdam, schedule that. It will be a hoot)
you can download the matches via torrent sites
Gooner here. During the Bleus-Oranje match I was amazed to see all the current and former Gunners on the pitch. Henry, van Persie, van Bronckhorst, Gallas, Vieira on the bench. It was sweet of Titi to warmly congratulate van Persie after the match. They exchanged jerseys, and Titi asked first. 4-1. Who would have believed it.
Spain-Sweden featured Cesc Fabregas vs. Freddie Ljungberg, that guy in all those Calvin Klein underwear commercials. I don't think they kissed on the cheek afterwards, did they?
Zuper-Zlatan Ibrahimovic FTW!
Austria got a little help from from the referees against Poland. A penalty kick in injury time to draw even with Poland. I guess UEFA wanted to make sure that the host team stays in the tourney(at Poland's expense).
The penalty awarded to Austria was the correct decision. Becides Austria should have had the game won in the first half hour.
Thanks John for smoking out the international lurkers of the blog by way of soccer. If this soccer discussion shows one thing it is this: Watching U.S. elections has become a global spectacle that evokes passions like soccer all over the world. The only people who don't quite understand this are American voters. I strongly recommend the most delighful book of the past few years: How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization by journalist Franklin Foer. The book brilliantly and humoursly analyzes the intersection between soccer, politics and globalization through soccer teams and their fans in several countries--and yes, it includes a chapter on the U.S.
The C&L soccer discussion shows the U.S. November election is not just of historical significance because of the candidates or the sense of choice that Americans have, but because so much is at stake for the world as a whole. Globally we're just holding our breath to see what happens....Thanks for allowing us to watch it up close.
It's "football" not "soccer"! (And the Italians may not make the knockout stage. You want your money on the Dutch or maybe the Portu-geezers.)
Lurker from Iceland here, hi! :)
I am a lurker from Spain and here in Europe everything stops with the Eurocup.. and so far it has been absolutely great. the soccer quality has been very high... Portugal, Netehrlands, Spain playing excellent soccer.
I must say Italy will probably lose... they do not have a great team.. but somehow they always manage to get trhough....
i am sorry to say but I do hope they lose :)
A pleasure
I am a football (futebol; futbol) fan, not a soccer fan, nor an American football fan.
I have Portugal beating Holland 1-0 in the final.
My biggest disappointment, so far, has been Mutu missing the penalty which would have sealed Italy's fate.
My biggest thrill has been watching David Villa work for 4 goals!
Sorry all, but most sports "events" are about as exciting as watching paint dry. Watch grown men run up the field and..........run back....run up the field and.......run back. Are we discussing soccer, or basketball? Same thing basically. Except with basketball, you have grown men running back and forth and actually getting a basket. And then it's a "blowout" when a team wins by 2 points!!! Like a soccer blowout when the score is 2-0. The ONLY thing worse, is watching golf on tv, listening to the talking head experts, whisper, like a golfer that is half a mile away can hear them. Then attempting to follow a white ball that is in the air, with white clouds behind it, and a commentator saying how great a shot it is. Um, what shot? Sorry, can't quite grasp how people become millionaires playing these "sports". Beckham anyone? Famous for? Oh ya, a pompous ass wife that was a member of a fake musical group. Sigh.
A couple of points, Austria may have gotten a break in the game against Poland, with a penalty kick awarded in the last minute-- but they had also been the victims of some pretty bad calls/non-calls previously.
The players don't "run" up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. There is some time spent almost stanting in place and a lot of jogging...they do go full-out for a few plays. That said, they are in great shape-- but remember that they are not dashing full-out for 90 minutes.
With Germnay's stunning loss to Croatia, it looks like the best teams so far are Holland and Portugal. I was in Vienna when the Dutch demolished Italy and the streets were full of young Nederlanders singing and cheering "Hol-land! Hol-land!" And the game was played in Berne, Switzerland. The main streets were literally filled with Croats in their red-and-white checkered clothes the day of the Croatia-Austria game. Thousands were in the FanZones and never got in the sold-out stadium. A lot of national spirit for all the teams.
We havew walked this way before.
Italy will make it through to the next round. When have they ever started well?
Germany will be touigh . They do not exit easily.
Spain will be Spain. Will make it through the next round.
Portugal and Croatia will makes their opponent lives miserable.
Hiolland should be in the final unless they choke.
Holland vs. Portugal in Final. Maybe.
Just another football (futbol/soccer) fan and ex-pat living on a sailboat in somewhere in Central America.
*** Go Spain ***
All wrong!
You guys don't believe Gary Lineker?
Appalling!
Portugal v Germany
Czech Republic v Croatia
Holland v Sweden
Spain v France
Football fan living in Los Angeles. Go Italia!
I'm a football, and a football, fan. I've watched the Champions League tourney and watched as Man U beat Chelsea. I'm watching as much of the Euro 2008 matches as I can, and am always in awe of the stamina these athletes display.
My picks for the final? Gotta choose the Netherlands side for one bracket, and Spain for the other. They've been doing well so far (mind you, this is just my opinion).
And as for the other football, GO RAIDERS!
People who say Italy is playing defensively this year must have watched not a single game they played.
As for the various ruling tidbits that have been discussed: UEFA has indeed called the first Dutch goal against Italy on-side because of the defender off the field. It's an odd rule, one that is basically unknown because the situation almost never applies - clearly the Italian defenders did not know about it because they played the off-side on purpose. Toni's goal on Friday was obviously on-side too, and even the referee has publicly admitted his mistake. The penalty against Italy was all there, and the fact that the same foul may not be always called is irrelevant. So be it.
If the qualifying teams are those listed by ronhohn at #138, the worse of all will be Sweden (and if Ibra is really hurt, they won't qualify for sure), and France close second. Germany would lose against Portugal, unless they wake up from the sleep-walking state in which they seem to have been playing so far.
Can Portugal pull it off with that weak of a defense (and on over-the-hill goalie??) Deco!
I'm rooting for the Dutch as they have been the most impressive and exciting to watch. I'll be happy so long as Italy don't proceed as they knocked us (Scotland) out in qualifying, very unfairly I might add.
Oh yes John, the ESPN announcers are bad. Just horrid. Had to endure them for the Champions League games televised here in Canada. Luckily for us, for Euro 2008 we get the British announcers for the games. Go Sweden!!!
The Adrian Healy/Andy Gray team may be the best duo to broadcast games to the American mainland in a long while. I can't believe people are complaining about the commentators, especially after the WC 06 debacle that was the marcello balboa/rob stone pairing. And although Tommy Smyth can get annoying at times, Derek Rae is one of the most well respected commentary guys on the planet. Anyway,
Ceska, Ceska, Ceska, we need it big today, but I doubt we can come out on top with the way our finishing has looked. Would love to take second in the group and match up against Croatia, chance of advancing there.
I am always in awe of how little politicians actually manage to do in their 90 minutes,
so little time, too many important things (like impeachment) so much irrelevant stuff to vote on.
Meine Frau is from Deutschland, so I am a bit biased. But the Dutch have been very entertaining to watch, and I do like their style of play. The ESPN guys can't pronounce Basel correctly, but they do seem to be quick learners as far as the game jargon goes. This is a great opportunity for Amis to catch a tournament from beginning to end.
fil @99 must be an undercover romanian operative lol encouraging nederland to let herself be beat just to ensure france and italy are off the game - so much anti-italian hate talk :) as i said it resuscitates my latent patriotism
well ok, i don't mind if nederland wins the cup - my son in law and grandaughters are dutch, my best friend is spanish so kudos to spain as well if it makes it and croatia too, my mother came from there and it's such a beautiful country and it needs the prestige that would come with the the big victory
soooo .............ok........but please stop the italy must lose talk
they run between 5 and 9 miles per game. Lets see baseball players do that
Comments are closed on this entry