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Wesley Clarke also understands how to bring home the argument. He highlights one of the most important flip flops John McCain has made so far during his bid for the White House and quite possibly his entire political career. His flip flop on torture.

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I've written this before, but when I told a network reporter who covered the Democratic primary about McCain's flip flop on torture---there was silence on the phone for a moment and then the next word was " Really? He changed his vote on torture?" Yes, he did. That reaction is what people are saying everywhere. That is when they are made aware of it because even after he flopped on his vote he still tells us that waterboarding is badddddd and the press never follows up.

And you can see in his pressers that he gets real uncomfortable when anyone brings that vote up.

Clarke ....but on the other hand, he's changed his position on torture. One point he says he was against it and now he's in favor of it, He's even come out against the Supreme Court decision that was made yesterday on the prisoners in Guantanamo, so you know, what does John McCain really believe? Who is he? Is he this straight talk express maverick that people thought he was in the late nineties or is he just a guy that wants to be president and he's say what's necessary to get the job.

Bravo!

There aren't too many reporters that have actually asked him about his flip flop on torture lately, have you noticed that? If you catch a reporter asking him about his flip flop on torture please email me or leave it in the comment sections....

Here's the Supreme Court smack down on habeas corpus privileges at Gitmo:

The Supreme Court has ruled that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the U.S. Constitution to challenge their detention in civilian courts.

This is another huge defeat for McCain personally because he was involved in that horrible Military Commissions Act. Getting rebuked by the wingnut Supreme Court has dealt him a huge

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Exotic Blue Lensman's picture

What a sad joke the "straight talk express" has become.

Underground Pirate's picture

As long as Americans continue to join the military, there will be war, and McCain knows that.
The formula to start a war is so simple, even he can understand it.
Step1. Define an enemy.
Step2. Use the "media" to sell it to the unwashed.
Step3. Tell congress how much money is needed.
Step4. Call some Generals.

Once the war has started, it will continue on it's own momentum.

AngryOne's picture

As Cliff Schecter details in his book The Real McCain, Mr. Straight Talk offered anything but in lauding what Congress had done in the Military Commissions Act. On September 28, 2006, McCain declared Geneva had been preserved after all:

"Simply put, this legislation ensures that we respect our obligations under Geneva, recognizes the President's constitutional authority to interpret treaties, and brings accountability and transparency to the process of interpretation by ensuring that the executive's interpretation is made public. The legislation would also guarantee that Congress and the judicial branch will retain their traditional roles of oversight and review with respect to the President's interpretation of non-grave breaches of Common Article 3."

It's no wonder the Washington Post took McCain to task in the fall of 2006 for his Orwellian double-speak:

In short, it's hard to credit the statement by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) yesterday that "there's no doubt that the integrity and letter and spirit of the Geneva Conventions have been preserved." In effect, the agreement means that U.S. violations of international human rights law can continue as long as Mr. Bush is president, with Congress's tacit assent.

For more details, see:
"McCain's Sins of Military Commission."

Obama-Clarke 08

Kald's picture

These interviewers remind me of things I saw once in a dog pound.

And I think L.Clark sounds like a defense minister...

MountainMan23's picture

I was shocked (pleasantly!) to see this analysis in the "Main Stream Corporate Media."

It's short, with links, and an interesting read.

Here's the main point:
CBSNews: McCain Takes Gitmo Ruling Personally

Why Does GOP Candidate Scorn Supreme Court's Affirmation Of Right Of Habeus Corpus?
..
Following the last Supreme Court ruling on this topic, which also struck down stubborn Administration detainee policies, the Senator (a Vietnam torture victim himself) invested no small amount of his own treasured (and well-earned) historical capital to try to broker a deal on the detainees.

And, in late 2006, he did.

It’s called the Military Commissions Act. It was a terrible idea from the very beginning, and it was one of two federal statutes undercut by the Justices last Thursday. It’s no wonder the nominee is taking the defeat personally.

After first insisting that federal law clearly and unambiguously outlaw “torture,” McCain suddenly caved to White House pressure on the MCA, allowing the Administration to insert into the law a clause that effectively allows (and, indeed, legally buttresses the efforts of) the executive branch to implement torture as a means of interrogation.

Without McCain’s pander, there would have been no bad law for the Court to strike down last week. Without McCain’s grandiloquent appeal to Democrats and moderates during that lame-duck session, there quite possibly might have been a better law that just might have passed its constitutional test this term.

McCain’s sell-out on the torture language is not the reason the Justices declared the MCA unconstitutional. It is not the reason why the detainees now have more access to federal courts than they did before. But it is emblematic of the larger and much more destructive, seven-year-long sell-out of the legislative branch in the legal fight against terrorism.

And that emblem, thanks to the Supreme Court, now has John McCain’s face on it just in time for the run-up to the general election.
...

Different Anonymous's picture

There aren’t too many reporters that have actually asked him about his flip flop on torture lately, have you noticed that?

Heck, there aren't too many reporters that have actually asked him about *ANY* of his flip flops lately!

Ben's picture

John and others:
GEN (Ret) Clark doesn't have an "e" on the end of his name. His first name also does not start with an "L." It is Wesley K. Clark, possibly a future Obama cabinet member.

The straight talk express is rolling down the road but there is no one at the wheel. It veers all over the road.

McCain is almost looking pitiful. And I think the press likes to pander to him so they won't look mean by picking on the old mixed up guy. Of course that's exactly what we need in the oval office next year, an old pitiful mixed up guy.

Clarke is asking what all Americans should be asking, Who is this guy?

BennyP's picture

Clarke would be a great Veep.

Geraldo's picture

pissed off patricia @ 9:

McCain is almost looking pitiful. And I think the press likes to pander to him so they won't look mean by picking on the old mixed up guy. Of course that's exactly what we need in the oval office next year, an old pitiful mixed up guy.

Well, he doesn't need a pity fuck, so maybe a pity vote?

(I guess this would be kinda like giving someone a pity fuck and then later finding out you're pregnant and have AIDS and crabs and he told everyone at the seniors' home that you put out and now they're all phoning you and showing up on your doorstep and their wives are trying to kill you)

Geraldo @ 11:

pissed off patricia @ 9:

McCain is almost looking pitiful. And I think the press likes to pander to him so they won't look mean by picking on the old mixed up guy. Of course that's exactly what we need in the oval office next year, an old pitiful mixed up guy.

Well, he doesn't need a pity fuck, so maybe a pity vote?

(I guess this would be kinda like giving someone a pity fuck and then later finding out you're pregnant and have AIDS and crabs and he told everyone at the seniors' home that you put out and now they're all phoning you and showing up on your doorstep and their wives are trying to kill you)

Yeah, kinda like that only a hell of a sight worse.

Left&Left's picture

Exotic Blue Lensman @ 1:

What a sad joke the "straight talk express" has become.

This is not sad...it's beautiful! Another day, another McFuck up.

Weaseldog's picture

The Democratic Leadership is going to make all of bush's dreams come true, as a final parting gift to the man they have worked for and supported all of these years.

Democrats to back down on Iraq war conditions
http://tinyurl.com/633mvb

Ben's picture

Patricia, BennyP, please refer to post #8...

ronnyg's picture

My fantasy, since you've asked, is that McCain gets a question like one about torture and completely blows his stack, and the audience starts leaving, the press eventually turns off their cameras and McCain, a la Don Ameche in "Trading Places" shouts, "Turn the machines back on! Turn the machines back on!"

karl's picture

this is all part of this no fear culture that has really gained momentum the last 4-5 yrs....gop supporters say this is how we need to deal with these terrorists....and the people that are against this type of interrogation of prisoners don't understand...this part of the mentality to make sure were able to continue in this war...this administration is not concerned about reprecussions they want an excuse to continue the occupation and spending on the war....

Weaseldog's picture

To be fair, McCain never said he was against Torture.

All he said was that it is illegal, immoral, a war crime and that civilized, law abiding nations don't engage in it.

He never once said he was against it.

Embittered-Max-Hussein-1's picture

.

M c T O R T U R E!!

.

oldtree's picture

Thanks Wes, we do appreciate it. Sanity shows itself for what it is.

pissed off patricia's picture

Ben @ 15:

Patricia, BennyP, please refer to post #8...

Hey it's okay, I won't charge you extra for my special E

Loonie's picture

"The Prevaricating Special Bus"

Left&Left's picture

Weaseldog @ 18:

To be fair, McCain never said he was against Torture.

All he said was that it is illegal, immoral, a war crime and that civilized, law abiding nations don't engage in it.

He never once said he was against it.

Trust me, when McCrazy was at the Hanoi Hilton, he was against torture.

Is he carrying a grudge all these many years later against the guys who tortured him, so now he wants other people to get tortured? Or is he now panicked because there is a chance he might get a shot at the oval office so he just says whatever the fu*k seems to sound good.

♠Bangkok-Bob♠ in Chiang Mai's picture

Like any steak done on the grill, it may be flipped once, but after that too many flips makes the meat gets dry and stringy and burnt out. The flavor changes to something bad.

Johnny, you just are tasting really bad to the USA right now.

Weaseldog's picture

Left&Left @ 23:

Weaseldog @ 18:

To be fair, McCain never said he was against Torture.

All he said was that it is illegal, immoral, a war crime and that civilized, law abiding nations don't engage in it.

He never once said he was against it.

Trust me, when McCrazy was at the Hanoi Hilton, he was against torture.

I doubt it. I believe he was against getting tortured. That's not the same as being against having other people tortured.

McCain only cares about McCain. His life history is a study in vanity.

mac's picture

The only cable news people who have called McCranky on his perpetual flip-flopping are Rachael Maddow and Keith Olbermann.....but I just watch CNN and MSNBC as far as cable news, have not watch Fixed News for about five years now. CNN seems to becoming more and more spineless so I am tending to move toward MSNBC more and more.

cD's picture

Wesley Clarke?

Try Wesley Clark.

Good Lord this guy is being considered for VP at least get his name spelled right.

Progressive Libertarian's picture

This is a great job by Wes Clarke. I think the implosion of McCain's positition on torture is the issue that will do the most to dispel the notion that McCain is a principled moderate with strong beliefs.

And here's why: There was no real political COST to McCain of caving in to the Bush administration on torture. No matter how stridently McCain opposed the administration, no one was going to go on a cable news show and criticize him for it. I don't even think the likes of Limbaugh would try to attack McCain on the torture angle (though nothing would suprise me from that cohort). McCain essentially had a free pass to stand up on this issue. But he sold out on the position anyway in the hopes of making himself more attractive to the Bush 28'ers. That single act pretty much vacates any pretension of leadership.

The fact that McCain is all over the place on immigration, energy policy, and the like is one thing. I think most people expect politicians to engage in some form of political calculus with respect to policy issues. Someone who is predisposed to think favorably of McCain would likely be able to reconcile their view of him with things like that. But torture? Given McCain's history on the issue? What he did is truly shocking. It's almost impossible to comprehend. It's just not an issue on which anyone would believe McCain was simply "confused" or didn't care much about or on which his thinking had evolved. It's really difficult to try reconcile it with anything other than McCain selling out.

Democrats, this is the well. Keep going back to it.

Joh Tyler's picture

Democratic Party Unity (aka right wing hater) @ 4:

Obama-Clarke 08

Obama-Clarke '08 -- And put Webb as Sec of def. (SED)

Or- Obama-Webb '08 and put Clarke as SED.
2 strong intelligent military men at Obama's side, would do wonders for OUR military.
Our military as in the PEOPLE's military. Not the politicians military.

foolme1ns's picture

Decades ago there was a television show that had three contestants all claiming to be one person, and at the end of the show, the host would say, will the real so and so please stand up.

I think it is time for us all to ask, will the real John McCain please stand up.

earl's picture

NewsBint:
"I hear what you are saying ....but this is John McCain were talking about ..."

This is the of numbskull questioning that passes for journalism ...?

BobD's picture

Anyone watching CSpan3? Did you see Lyndsey Graham and Joe Liebermann rationalize the use of torture? Evil, stupid puppets! Bet they'll be in McCain's cabinet (of skeletons)

Underground Pirate's picture

pissed off patricia @ 12:

Geraldo @ 11:

pissed off patricia @ 9:

McCain is almost looking pitiful. And I think the press likes to pander to him so they won't look mean by picking on the old mixed up guy. Of course that's exactly what we need in the oval office next year, an old pitiful mixed up guy.

Well, he doesn't need a pity fuck, so maybe a pity vote?

(I guess this would be kinda like giving someone a pity fuck and then later finding out you're pregnant and have AIDS and crabs and he told everyone at the seniors' home that you put out and now they're all phoning you and showing up on your doorstep and their wives are trying to kill you)

Yeah, kinda like that only a hell of a sight worse.

Actually, I would love to punch that big fat stupid cheek of his! Pity for that total asshole? I pity Arizona for having that disgusting old twit as a senator.

rage's picture

I sure hope Grampers is changing his Depends as often as he's changing his campaign strategies and political views.

BobD's picture

foolme1ns @ 31:

Decades ago there was a television show that had three contestants all claiming to be one person, and at the end of the show, the host would say, will the real so and so please stand up.

I think it is time for us all to ask, will the real John McCain please stand up.

That was What's my Line! Great show.

Trouble is a whole lot of Americans have no problem with torturing the "terrorist". They think if the US tortures everyone they capture, they will remain "safe".

Annoyed Canuck's picture

John Yoo, Bush's personal legal torture-enabler, goes ballistic on the "judicial imperialism" of the Supreme Court in a Wall Street Journal editorial today:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121366596327979497.html?mod=hps_us_at_gl...

Joh Tyler @ 30:

Democratic Party Unity (aka right wing hater) @ 4:

Obama-Clarke 08

Obama-Clarke '08 -- And put Webb as Sec of def. (SED)

Or- Obama-Webb '08 and put Clarke as SED.
2 strong intelligent military men at Obama's side, would do wonders for OUR military.
Our military as in the PEOPLE's military. Not the politicians military.

Absolutely...and its Clark. I should know better, I gave him money in 04...

bascombe's picture

and the press never follows up.

- the theme of this election cycle.

I’ve written this before, but when I told a network reporter who covered the Democratic primary about McCain’s flip flop on torture—there was silence on the phone for a moment and then the next word was ” Really? He changed his vote on torture?”

is there any question as to the completely full-of-shit nature of the media? any question at all?

marko's picture

did you catch the lapel flag pin jab!!!!

cD's picture

Joh Tyler @ 30:

Democratic Party Unity (aka right wing hater) @ 4:

Obama-Clarke 08

Obama-Clarke '08 -- And put Webb as Sec of def. (SED)

Or- Obama-Webb '08 and put Clarke as SED.
2 strong intelligent military men at Obama's side, would do wonders for OUR military.
Our military as in the PEOPLE's military. Not the politicians military.

His name is Clark not Clarke.

bascombe's picture

BobD @ 33:

Anyone watching CSpan3? Did you see Lyndsey Graham and Joe Liebermann rationalize the use of torture? Evil, stupid puppets! Bet they'll be in McCain's cabinet (of skeletons)

needs repeating with emphasis!

theWalrus's picture

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

bascombe's picture

rage @ 35:

I sure hope Grampers is changing his Depends as often as he's changing his campaign strategies and political views.

I'm sure he has to. He's completely full of shit!

Jo's picture

John McSenile on torture - he was against it before he was for it. Now he is for it but the press says he is against it. Man, that somofabitch has it made! Not.

Carrot and Shtick's picture

McCain was a POW, NOT a saint for chrissakes. These nutjobs want to give him a free pass for surviving the very thing he now supports - TORTURE. McCain will flip and flop and say whatever he needs to in order to win support, and the talking heads dismiss it as something that politicians do as a matter of course.
Why shouldn't politicians be held accountable for their election promises??

Weaseldog's picture

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

The people I know that support McCain, only know that he's a war veteran that was tortured. They don't need to know anything else.

Weaseldog's picture

Carrot and Shtick @ 47:

McCain was a POW, NOT a saint for chrissakes. These nutjobs want to give him a free pass for surviving the very thing he now supports - TORTURE. McCain will flip and flop and say whatever he needs to in order to win support, and the talking heads dismiss it as something that politicians do as a matter of course.
Why shouldn't politicians be held accountable for their election promises??

Some are. We call them Democrats.

bascombe's picture

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

the polls are lies. the questions are framed and the media wants to give the appearance of a close election and a divided democratic party.

Then they can sell you on the DIEBOLD calculatedmanipulated results and you're supposed to believe it.

Some people are under the impression that an overwhelming majority for Democratic contenders will overwhelm DIEBOLD. I AM NOT UNDER THAT DELUSION, NOT IN THE LEAST. If they can manipulate the vote, they will. And the press will do everything in it's power to aid in the manipulation.

getalife's picture

McTorture, McFlipflop, McBush, etc....

Lets get real, both candidates and both parties suck.

Where are the freaking solutions?

There are none, the government is broken stupid.

Ask them how they will fix a broken government?

karl's picture

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

all of the above... mix in 8th grade reading ability and fear......mcBush represents one half of the division in this country that was accomplished by gingrich/rove it's based on judgement/human insecurities...most people are unable to put on a contrarian hat instead they put on the dummy hat

sharkcellar's picture

"Getting rebuked by the wingnut Supreme Court has dealt him a huge..."

How do we finish this sentence. I was thinking "cock in the anus" but some might not find that a bad thing.

bascombe's picture

Wounded soldiers become homeless waiting for benefits
By David Edwards | Uncategorized | Tuesday, 17 June 2008

(AP) Thousands of wounded soldiers discharged from the Army risk financial ruin as they wait six to nine months for their disability benefits. The Army has taken steps to ease the strain, but it’s taking awhile for those policies to take hold.

Nearly 20,000 disabled soldiers were discharged in the past two fiscal years, and lawmakers, veterans’ advocates and others say thousands could be facing financial ruin while they wait for their claims to be processed and their benefits to come through.

“The anecdotal evidence is depressing,” said Rep. John Hall, D-N.Y., who heads a subcommittee on veterans disability benefits. “These veterans are getting medical care, but their family is going through this huge readjustment at the same time they’re dealing with financial difficulties.”

Most permanently disabled veterans qualify for payments from Social Security and the military or Veterans Affairs. Those sums can amount to about two-thirds of their active-duty pay. But until those checks show up, most disabled veterans draw a reduced Army paycheck.

karl's picture

Weaseldog @ 48:

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

The people I know that support McCain, only know that he's a war veteran that was tortured. They don't need to know anything else.

that's Right that's all they want them to know if they don't vote for him they're not patriotic mccain has the best halloween costume for the candy(vote) the uniform from the past...it's perfect for black and white thinkers

bascombe's picture

sharkcellar @ 53:

"Getting rebuked by the wingnut Supreme Court has dealt him a huge..."

How do we finish this sentence. I was thinking "cock in the anusmouth" but some might not find that a bad thing.

all he needs is some time in the bathroom with craig, and there's nothing wrong with it.

The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela's picture

The Straight Talk Express seems to be stuck in the pig-shit-filled cesspool that is the GOP. It WANTS to get out, but the pig shit wont let it.

The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela's picture

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

George W. Bush was elected .... twice !??!

need we say more ?

Left&Left's picture

getalife @ 51:

McTorture, McFlipflop, McBush, etc....

Lets get real, both candidates and both parties suck.

Where are the freaking solutions?

There are none, the government is broken stupid.

Ask them how they will fix a broken government?

Lay off the Lou Dobbs "both parties and candidates suck" talking point. Even if you don't like Obama, there is no way he can be as horrible as McDumb.

bascombe's picture

Question about supporter’s ‘rape’ joke agitates McCain
By David Edwards | Uncategorized | Monday, 16 June 2008

Three days after rescheduling a fundraiser that had been planned at the home of a supporter who joked about rape, Republican presidential candidate John McCain continues to face questions about why he is keeping the $300,000 raised by Texas oilman Clayton Williams.

At a press conference in Arlington, Virginia, CNN’s Dana Bash asked McCain why his staff had even scheduled a fundraiser with Williams, who in 1990 joked that rape was like bad weather: “As long as it’s inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it.”

The question visibly agitated McCain. He furrowed his brow, fidgeted with his notes, blinked rapidly, scowled, squinted, scoffed and grimaced as Bash was completing her question.

Finally he said, “my people were not aware of a statement he made 16 or 18 years ago. I’ve forgotten how many years ago it was.”

McCain defended the decision to keep the money Williams raised, after Democrats hit him on the decision earlier in the day.

bascombe's picture

The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela @ 58:

theWalrus @ 44:

I read great posts like this and then I hear how close the election is right now and wonder: Where is the disconnect? Are people that ignorant, or apathetic, or brainwashed or just plain stupid? It never ceases to amaze me the ability of the electorate to do the wrong thing.

George W. Bush was elected .... twice !??!

need we say more ?

boosh was NEVER elected!
2000- scalia cancels recount
2004- enough voter fraud to steal ohio and fla. Kerry quits on Carville's advice.
boosh was NEVER elected!

Mickxotic's picture

Thanks, Underground Pirate! I pity us too! Funny thing is... whenever we hold a rally and demonstrate outside of his office, he sends out some woman in a suit who watches us verr-ry closely. If you take a step off of the sidewalk, she tells us to (seriously!) "Get off the property/lawn!

Blue's picture

Richard Clarke has an e, Wes does not.

cD's picture

Blue @ 63:

Richard Clarke has an e, Wes does not.

Man this site is going down hill Clark is being considered for VP and this place can't even spell his name right.

I just heard a reporter from the NYT talking about McCain. He got an essay McCain wrote at the war college after the Vietnam war. He said in that essay McCain seemed to associate the other POW who sucked up to the Vietnamese with the peace movement that went on here in during the Vietnam war. He seemed to feel that when the country lost support for the war it was just like the POWs who sold out to keep from being tortured.

What I took away from what the reporter was saying is that McCain may still be mad because the US didn't fight to the end, however long that might have been, to "win" the war in Vietnam. So maybe McCain is determined to fight to the end, however long that might be, in order to "win" the war in Iraq. And he has no patience with anyone who says we should come home now. He's still angry about something that happened so many years ago. This I think could make his judgment even more dangerous.

jimmiraybob's picture

Mica - [astonished rebuke] Isn't this dangerous...this is JOHN MCCAIN we're talking about?[/astonished rebuke]

Dammit Mica, this was a nice start but where was the genuflection and thoughtful glance toward the heavens? Such a lapse in proper media reverence is shameful. May your next cocktail party be made uncomfortable.

Slaughter's picture

As a newsman since '75, I'm appalled to read that a network reporter covering politics -- even if it is the Democratic primary, not the Republican -- did *not* know about McCain's torture flip-flop, especially since he took so much heat for speaking against torture in one of the early GOP debates.

John Tighe's picture

It's unusual to see them question a man in a uniform. WAR HERO. I wish someone would have the balls to pop that myth. When someone is questioned why they are attacking McCain who's a war hero, they should just reply RANDY CUNNINGHAM! The "Dukester" was a war hero just like McCain, but a better pilot, and even had a movie made about him! Reasons to honor him ended with the war though, for when he became a congressman he sold out his men for a house and some hookers. He turned himself into a WHORE HERO. McCain has been a sell out as well, though not as sensational as the Dukester, just like their war records.

mudshark's picture

Even I remember when he flipped on torture. Maybe we should call him Flipper? So I don't buy that the MSM missed this.
The only way they could miss this would be voluntarily.

Slaughter's picture

"So maybe McCain is determined to fight to the end, however long that might be, in order to “win” the war in Iraq."

If that's true, Patricia, that's just one more way McCain is like Bush, because Bush says we left Vietnam too early. Of course *he* didn't want to fight there -- or in Alabama.

jimmiraybob's picture

pissed off patricia @ 65:

...

What I took away from what the reporter was saying is that McCain may still be mad because the US didn't fight to the end, however long that might have been, to "win" the war in Vietnam.

This describes the whole conservative, neo-conservative and pseudo-conservative movement's foundation - they are bound and determined to win the war of the 1960s*, including Vietnam, at all costs and no matter how long it takes and no matter which particular century of the Dark Ages we land in.

To be fair, this includes the 1780s/1790s triumph of radical, liberal and secular thought embraced by and enshrined in the Constitution by the heathen American Revolutionary and Founding Hippies.

Godfry Daniel's picture

Hey Barack, are you listening to Wesley? Here's your VP!

John Tighe's picture

The first nutty thing I saw McThusela do was back in the 2000 campaign(when I didn't know he was part of the Keating 5). It was a debate with Bush, McCan't couldn't make it, but the debate had to go on. As a compromise McShame appeared via satellite with Bush on stage. When I saw Bush standing next to a 30" TV with McCain on it, I lost all hope for the guy. It was one of the stupidest things I ever saw on TV.

Terrible's picture

U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10, The Law of Land Warfare as well as the UCMJ, the US Constitution, the Nuremberg Principle, the Geneva Convention(to which the US is signatory), and the UN Charter(to which the US is signatory) all make clear that Gitmo and torture are illegal. The people who authorized both need to go to prison and those that have supported both need to be marginlized.

mudshark's picture

Looks like McFlipper did it again yesterday too. He says he's all for drilling for oil off of our coasts now.
This election will get very ugly. But at least McFlipper will make it easier.

dosido's picture

This is a rockin' post, John Amato. Thanks for what you do.

Great comments, too, people!

mudshark's picture

mudshark @ 75:

Looks like McFlipper did it again yesterday too. He says he's all for drilling for oil off of our coasts now.
This election will get very ugly. But at least McFlipper will make it easier.

Heres a link

Weaseldog's picture

mudshark @ 75:

Looks like McFlipper did it again yesterday too. He says he's all for drilling for oil off of our coasts now.
This election will get very ugly. But at least McFlipper will make it easier.

That's a good campaign point. A lot of people want a candidate that will support our need to eat the Earth up faster.

Worrying over high gasoline prices, degrades the experience of using our Hypnosis Boxes.

Left&Left's picture

Randi Rhodes on her radio show came up with a funny line while discussing McWar's many position changes. She said "Grandpa has had more position changes than the Karma Sutra".

XL's picture

This Nation has been opposed to torture since the Revolutionary War when George Washington made it a policy that unlike the British, the colonialists would not torture. That policy has been followed faithfully and proudly until the Bushites took control. As an officer in the U.S. Navy and as the son of Admiral, McCain knew that

Will Bhe's picture

Wow. Just Wow.
As someone who grew up with a MUCH more responsible, less PARTISAN media, this just makes me gag. I'm in Canaduh and I CANNOT imagine commentators being so obviously on the side of a political contender/party, in this case George McSame. Just LISTEN to this clip, take the video off your screen so you're not distracted by it.
It's unreal when you listen, it's so clearly ANYTHING but a liberal media. At first I thought that womnan was being facetious: "C'mon this is John McCain, he's a war hero!", but she wasn't. (gags)
'Specially that woman, 'scuse me: 'Partisan Hack'/

Someone there has to start pumping in the BBC or CBC into every American home before they truly end up Amerikan homes.

Jed Bradley's picture

Its Wesley CLARK!!!

Not CLARKE!!!

Seriously?

ashton's picture

I was just watching TV and a McCain commercial came on. His new slogan is "Reform, Prosperity and Peace." Seriously.

grawson's picture

Once again the MSM doing their utmost to make sure the uninformed electorate who only pay attention to sound bites, elect another right wing fanatical asshole to lead us onward and upward to oblivion. Do you suppose it would matter if it were their children coming home in a body bag? Nah!

ronnyg's picture

pissed off patricia @ 24:

Is he carrying a grudge all these many years later against the guys who tortured him, so now he wants other people to get tortured? Or is he now panicked because there is a chance he might get a shot at the oval office so he just says whatever the fu*k seems to sound good.

Hey, where was I when all the bitingly sarcastic girlfriends were being handed out?

Oh yes, I was on the chauvinist pigmobile. Now I remember.

Gobama08's picture

The Corporate Media keeps using fear of terror to get us to vote for imperialist, zionist pigs. Don't fall for it, get educated to the real dynamic going on in the Middle East that between a right wing Israel bent on imperialism.

Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo's picture

Clarke = Sec of Defense.
Biden = Sec of State

Paul's picture

Man, I am disgusted with member of the so-called press pimping for the whore McCain.

Turk Meister's picture

The accepted history of McCain's time spent as a prisoner of war is rarely disputed. He endured horrible treatment at the hands of his captors. So much so, that they used him in their propaganda to denounce the United States. If anything, this should tell McCain and others that confessions obtained through torture simply cannot be trusted. If we are to accept that McCain was and is a true patriot with great love for his country, then we must also accept that a person with those convictions can be made to say things which he/she does not believe.

If anything, McCain's history in Vietnam is evidence that torture does not work unless your goal is a confession regardless of guilt. That's why his postion on torture makes no sense as he knows first hand how unreliable the results are. Unless of course all that talk about him being a war hero just isn't so.

aster's picture

bravo wesley

Godless SOB's picture

OMG - Wesley Clark wasn't wearing a flag lapel pin! Traitor!!!

Kidding, of course. I like 86's recommendation. GO WES CLARK!!!

chuck's picture

Don't forget, C&L, that Sherrod Brown (D-OH) voted FOR that same Military Commissions Act of 2006 (just like McCain did). He was one of 32 or so democrats in the House of Reps. that did (before he won Mike DeWine's Senate seat in the midterms), so he needs to be reminded (or haunted) about that despicable vote as well.

Adnan's picture

Please spell Wesley Clark's name correctly. It's misspelled three times in the post and again in the tags. You're spelling Richard Clarke's last name.

Obama should pick Wesley Clark for VP. Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, Vietnam vet wounded in combat, incredibly intelligent (first in his class at Westpoint three of his four years), no-nonsense, takes no bull from anyone, family man, from Arkansas. They'd win hands down.

Batocchio's picture

Some hacktastic moments in that interview. Clark did well, though.

tyler82's picture

Morning Joe is pretty enjoyable sans Joe.

lewisnclark's picture

John, there's no "e" at the end of "Clark".

Everyone will know how to spell his last name when those "Obama/Clark '08" bumper stickers start showing up all across America in August.

GREYZONE2's picture

two thumbs up to clarke

Dan Quayle's picture

cD @ 28:

Wesley Clarke?

Try Wesley Clark.

Good Lord this guy is being considered for VP at least get his name spelled right.

Potatoe

G.S.K.'s picture

McCain is the biggest flop-flopper I have ever seen. One week he is for something,the next week he's against it. When is the MSM going to report on this?

val's picture

That was What’s my Line! Great show.

No, "What's My Line" was the one where the guest had some unusual occupation and the panel would have to guess what it was. The one the poster is talking about, with the three people claiming to be a particular person, and the panel having to guess which was the real "John Smith, movie stuntman" (or whatever), with the final question from the host: "Will the real John Smith please stand up?" -- that was "To Tell the Truth."

If I understand correctly, Clark can't be Secy. of Defense. If you're in the military, you have to have been retired from active duty for at least 10 years, and he retired in 2000. Actually, he's qualified for any number of Cabinet positions (including Secretary of State and certainly for VP). Aside from his military career, he's a Rhodes scholar, has diplomatic experience, has a master's in economics, among other things, and has run a business.

GB's picture

If Obama doesn't run with Clark or someone of equal military credibility as a VP he will lose the election. Kerry should have picked Clark.

VegasRage's picture

Wesley Clarke hits straight and hard. Love how everyone wants Obama to pay attention to Petraeus, of course they all want to forget the 8 other generals on the ground that Bush didn't like the information from and had them removed.

anonymous's picture

FYI, its Clark, no e there.

Robt's picture

Wes Clark would make a fantastic Sec of Defense for Obama or any President for that matter.

McCain is a survivor not necessarily a hero !

willie's picture

WTF. could gen. clark have made it any simpler for the mental midgets on this unwatchable show. and yet they seem unable to understand. maybe unwilling to understand is a better take on it.

displaced's picture

This is confusing me. I mean, who is telling McCain that these flip-flops are going to get him elected?

Lets see here... a majority of Americans oppose torture. John McCain is for it. Will he be elected by a majority? I think not.

NoGWBpolicyleftinplace's picture

Democratic Party Unity (aka right wing hater) @ 4:

Obama-Clarke 08

I would put him at the top of my list! He would also be the guy to dismantle and go after Blackwater and Haliburton, KBR, and all the other traitors who worked for our Manhurian president fromTexass. After eight years of Obama, he would be fantastic at the top of the 2016 ticket! Smart, articulate, cool under fire, and extremely competent. Call him the anti-republican choice!

douglas in oklahoma's picture

CROOKS AND LIARS, there is no e on Clark; and he would be a great vp -- but he has close friendships with the Clintons. So i would be very surprised if he got past Axelrod.

Squeaky Wheels's picture

After John Kerry's opponent waved flip-flops and even dressed as flip-flops, it turns out the McCain is by far the greater flip-flopper.

catherineD's picture

The best take down of McCain so far. He goes right to the heart of McCain's supposed strengths --- maverick and as a veteran good on national security, and shows they're a sham. A four-star general from the south with four languages who is widely admired throughout the world and who is progressive. One who in 2004 had a 100-year-plan for the U.S. and believe me, it didn't involve staying in Iraq. A man who has been fighting to keep us out of Iran and who has spent the last four years fundraising for Democrats --- one of the few to make a commercial for Ned Lamont when the Democratic "leaders" insisted on supporting Lieberman. Vice presidential material.

I was really looking forward to hearing his take down discussed on the political shows that evening, but that was the day that Russert died, and was given wall-to-wall coverage on all of the networks and cable news shows for the next several days. Because, you know, the people who report the political news ARE the political news. I don't mean to put down Russert, but I feel that most of the discussion of him should have been during segments about celebrities, with briefer memorials during political shows. I just had a look at Wikipedia, though, and I see that after Jennings' death ABC World News had a big ratings bump for the following week, when they talked about him often. So I guess they all jumped on board. I'm guessing it will be a long time before we actually once again develop a media that feels their role is to inform people about important current events. Instead of choosing our news based on ratings popularity and turning politics into a reality game show, where personalities and "the play" is analyzed, while the job the politicians are promising to do, their qualifications and their positions are regarded as unimportant.

JB's picture

"It’s unusual to see them question a man in a uniform. WAR HERO."

No, not at all. They had no problem questioning Wes Clark in that very video, and Clark was 100 times the military man McCain was... "But but but... THIS IS JOHN MCCAIN". In other words, "how dare you!?!?!?!?! Who do you think you are, you mere four-star general and Supreme Allied Commander of Europe?"

They had no problem mocking John Kerry or for that matter another war hero, George McGovern.

Just like these alleged free marketeers have no problem mocking business heroes like George Soros or Warren Buffett if those guys get off-message either.

What matters is that you stick to the script and the script is almost always: Republicans good, Democrats questionable at best.

bilhelm-axis of evil-X's picture

God, the media makes me want to puke! Okay so Clark says McCain hasn't been tested so let's bring up Obama to softball McCain. I haven't seen journalism since Walter Cronkite gave up the evening news stint, American media sucks ass....

Bush Is A Yankee's picture

God, whoever that female host is... is she ever going to stop humping McCain's leg? How does getting captured in wartime make one a hero? Surviving torture shows resiliency and guts. It does NOT make one a hero. Did he invade enemy camps with a machine gun in each hand, freeing all its POW's, ala Rambo style? Please. McCain is no hero.

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