Verdict: Jonathan Alter Points Out Right-Wing Hypocrisy Over Michelle Obama's Comments
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jun 19, 2008 5:15pm
(h/t Heather)
On Verdict with Dan Abrams, Newsweek reporter Jonathan Alter was fed up with the ridiculousness of the continued smear of Michelle Obama over her "proud of her country" statement and accuses conservative talk show host Lars Larson of promoting an agenda that tries to paint Michelle Obama as an angry, black woman, noting that there was no such outrage for John McCain's repeated statement that he "didn't love America until (he) was deprived of her company".
ALTER: Yeah, you're saying...you're just talking trash and nonsense. And it's a slur, and it's really, it's frankly kind of appalling that you and others would stoop to this level, because it's not true. You don't know Michelle Obama; you haven't spoken to her as I have. To many of her friends: black, white, many different people...let me just quickly try to dispense with this. You're taking her out of context intentionally. You're trying to twist her words for your own political purposes. It's low and it's borderline racist.
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first
this is not news
repubs hate
stay on the FISA debacle
"...you haven’t spoken to her as I have."? " To her many friends..." ?? "...out of context" ???
Weak. If someone used that rationale defending, say, Barbara Bush, you'd call that grade "A" B.S.
And so it surely is.
Lars is a sniveling idiot.
I've never seen Alter ever get this worked up over anything. It was kind of nice to see. It altered my perception of Alter.
Euro 2008:
Turkey beat Croatia
i don't know how else to say this... lars larson ...is a dick...i apologize if i offended anybody besides him
Character assasination is what the repub is best at.
If anything that they have learned from Kerry's 'stand-on-high-ground' defeat, is that Dems must be very aggressive on calling it, as it really is, character assasination.
Dems must develop a comprehensive approach to deal with this. Dems can no longer take a moral high ground, be silent, and hope the public will understand and observe it. No more. Dems must educate the public, that what the repub is doing is actually character assassination. And this must be repeated again and again.
For every lemming that Repub will deploy in the media to denounce and character assasinate a mule, Dem must produce another lemming to counter it, and counter it aggressively.
The public must educated as to what is right and wrong. Don't give the repub any opportunity to educate that the right thing to do is wrong, and vice versa.
After today's outrage I'm NOT proud of my country. And to any governments hacks monitoring these posts I say F**K YOU!
Only in Rethuglicanland is the truth a "rationale."
Lars from Mars
The way to win this election is to promote what you're for, not smearing the opponent (even in a cowardly manner, through surrogates). I have heard & read that Obama is a "radical", a Marxist/Muslim (an oxymoron), a terrorist, "the most liberal Senator in America" (a title the cons whip out every election), and a "flip-flopper" (how McCain says that with a straight face is beyond me!)
What I have NOT heard is any criticism or debate on Obama's policies, i.e., national health insurance, a staged withdrawal from Iraq, long-term solutions to energy dependence. Instead, we are inundated with flag pins, pledge of allegiance, and "terrorist fist-bumps". If a candidate wants my vote, he (or she) has to explain how they will make my country better.
I guess Abrams doesn't get it. To the republican strategists it's not about the truth. It's about rumor, innuendo and creating a false narrative for people who already hate to motivate them to go to the polls.
.
Brad Blakeman says: "It's the little thigs you miss..."
~ Habeas Corpus
~ Privacy
~ Free speech
~ Fair trials
.
Very, very poor response in defense of M. Obama. What the heck is wrong with the Democrats? They are such utter iditiots; let me know help them with a response.
Slavery, forced extermination and relocation of Native Americans, lynchings, Sundown Towns, Jim Crow, poll taxes, denial of citizenship to Non-whites, The Tuskigee Syphllus experiments, etc., etc....aren't these reasons enough for an African American to be disappointed in this country, to lose hope that it will change?
I think M. Obama was a little too glibe in her initial remark, but she shouldn't back down. The heart of our democracy is self-critical analysis, and as an African American, I see nothing wrong with pointing out the FACT that people who look like me have eaten shit for years.
Lars was a better anchorman than he is a radio host. he isn't original. he's just like the 999,999 phony republican talk radio hosts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0
"Our marriage started out on a tissue of lies." Watch Cindy McCain tell Jay Leno what liars she and John are. It's stunning! Yikes!
Jodi, are you kidding me? You are doing just what the Repubs are doing: twisting what she said. I actually find her candor about drug addiction refreshing. And the whole thing about their marriage, c'mon, it was said in jest.
Please people, learn to respond with meaty arguments, not rhetorical spin.
yeah i was watching that and my perception was pretty mush the same. republicans cannot play in the arena of reason, they have to use obfuscation and distortion of character.-whats weird is that they are so devout that they don't even realize it.
they think when we criticize mcain, we are just distorting him, but in fact we are using REASON in our conclusions.
REASON has to win this time....it just has to...the nice thing about reason is that it is so CLEAR. the opposite of which is cloudy and mucky.
what they have on their side is tradition and the "good old boy" network (aka the dipstick zombies).
what i admire most about Obama is his ability to reason on the spot and not revert to talking points.
There is a reasonable world out there.......we just have to LET IT HAPPEN!!!!
Don't deny it. Just say that she's ashamed that this great country has let itself be ruled by conservatives the last 20+ years - her adult life. The conservative movement has loudly espoused values, while exhibiting only one, a crass lust for money and power. They've failed to protect this country from it's enemies and have instead fostered a civil so-called 'culture' war against their fellow Americans. Their fiscal policies have been wildly irresponsible and have succeeded in only lackluster economies that benefit the few and for which they expect future generations to pay. They've turned this country from the greatest most respected country on earth into a corrupt nation of thugs, torturers and liars, despised by all. After all the struggle, progress and sacrifice of the 1950s and 60s they've repeatedly attempted to roll back civil rights in this country.The media did nothing to stop this and too many of our fellow Americans stood by and watched as their country fell into the hands of the dregs of our society. She was ashamed of this? How is that news? We should all be ashamed of this.
What's wrong with angry black people? After all, if we lacked passion and adored things the way they are, then we wouldn't be so angry. But because we are very sensitive to injustice, it compels us to call out what is wrong in order to make things right.
I'm so sick and tired of white people belittling and minimalizing our anger as if it is a weak and impotent force. It is quite the contrary. Because black folks got angry and mobilized, we changed the course of this country, if not the world. And the only reason why white people make a big deal out of it is because of fear and the realization that their privilege (and power) is in jeopardy.
Our anger is not attached to violence. It is more attached to social action and change.
That's why Michelle Obama is being targeted. Nobody likes strong, black people. She refuses to be paternalized and subjugated.
Chris @ 15:
Absolutely. Unfortunately. it was almost to be expected that, probably due to political expediency, Michelle Obama would back down from her original statement. Was Mrs. Obama asleep in class when the issue of slavery was discussed? Is she not aware of the countless wars that the United States has wrought upon third world countries such as in Vietnam and Cambodia and other times that the U.S. has sent in troops to support authoritarian regimes in Central and South America? This is what the wife of the agent of hope and change is so proud of? Michelle Obama needs to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" to belatedly discover why there is so little that she should be proud of concerning that [alleged] beacon of democracy, the United States of America.
smack down those who trash reason.....for they would lead your children to war and murder!!!!!!
We here in Portland are so very proud of Lars Larson. Oy.
Why do vermin like this reside in such progressive cities. Kind of like Michael Savageweiner in the bay area.
The other thing I would add is the fact that people should watch any discussion about race. Two seconds won't pass by before someone who is ill informed about race relations and politics ends up saying to a person of color, "Now don't get so emotional. Don't get so angry."
I guarantee you.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 21:
yes this is true... if channeled in the right way it can be a very positive force...but i've never been mugged by a white person...nor have i known anyone who has. on the other hand i have been mugged by two black men and my friend was mugged last week for the third time. a gun in the face for a whopping $3. there is a fear of young black men in the white community that is based on experience and exaggeration. i have to agree with bill cosby in some of his assessments.
Thank you John Alter.....I watched this and ol lars..lier was asking for it with his neocon lies. I am NOT proud for many things my country has done and many of my friend have stated Dem and Repub.
Who is this Lars Larson asshole anyway? Why is he even there?
Yeah, the Trent Lott thing was a weak argument. Lott essentially said, if the segregationist candidate was president, the country would be better off. How does that compare to Michelle Obama???
Lars is way off and cannot see past his disdain for anything outside his conservative beliefs.
"but i
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 26:
And a couple of my relatives were lynched by a posse of white people in the deep south. Others had to pay poll taxes and still were denied the right to vote. I've been called racial slurs and denied service by white people. That's why I agree with James Baldwin, Langston Hughes and Richard Wright.
lars larson is another right wing radio idiot...
i say bring these people on tv and expose them for the irrational boobs they are.
watch them cling to their silly ideas on national tv.
purely pathetic and masturbatory.
jt @ 30:
Thank you. If there was a dollar for all times I've been told this in race conversations, I'd be richer than Bush and Cheney put together.
jt @ 30:
Anyhow, when a white person attacks you its called 'self defense'.;)
And this is what America has been for a while ......... I can't see a way out for these muppets either, close the boarders and fight it out I say.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 31:
i understand....i as just telling you why i have developed a fear.
our fear of each other is based on real stories. yet it is not the rule.
yet fear has the effect of taking over and over riding our senses and our reason.
that's why it's so difficult. everyone has to calm down and choose a good course of action.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 33:
MY EXPERIENCE AND THAT OF ALL MY FRIENDS IS NOT STUPID ..i have never lynched anyone nor do i know anyone who has...
your reason is self serving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0
“Our marriage started out on a tissue of lies.” Watch Cindy McCain tell Jay Leno what liars she and John are. It's not just a joke. It's who these unfortunate people are. They don't know how to be real and honest in their most intimate relationships.
As for Cindy's drug addiction. Did you get the part where she said her husband never knew?? How could he not, if he was engaging at all with her? Addicts don't just stop because someone tells them they have a problem, as Cindy McCain claims she did. It will come out that a former employee of the charity from which she was pilfering drugs brought this information forward and this is why she admitted to her addiction.
This is unfortunate, but she should not be going after Michelle Obama's patriotism. The old people in glass houses thing.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/drugs/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 36:
i understand....i as just telling you why i have developed a fear.
our fear of each other is based on real stories. yet it is not the rule.
yet fear has the effect of taking over and over riding our senses and our reason.
that's why it's so difficult. everyone has to calm down and choose a good course of action.
Why did I think you'd say that eventually?
Are you that afraid of angry black people?
Marcinema @ 28:
I've never listened to Lars for more than 60 seconds because that's all it takes to know the man is a hateful, bigoted blowhard. What's amazing is that he is based here in Portland, OR, which most right wingers put it only slightly to the right of San Francisco.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 21:
<blockquote
I'm so sick and tired of white people belittling and minimalizing our anger as if it is a weak and impotent force. It is quite the contrary. Because black folks got angry and mobilized, we changed the course of this country, if not the world. And the only reason why white people make a big deal out of it is because of fear and the realization that their privilege (and power) is in jeopardy.
Our anger is not attached to violence. It is more attached to social action and change.
You're forgetting that white folks take 'angry' as a violent emotion (refer to history of Europe)- use the word 'outrage' instead. A simple change in label means everything to your average consumer.
I am proud of the MSM
White criminals can steal your money LEGALLY - see Halliburton, Exxon-Mobil, et al. They don't need to mug anybody. And white stealing pays a heckuva lot better than street crime.
Why shouldn't black people be angry? Are you fucking out-of-your mind? People who look like me, my ancestors, were treated like animals, huddled into ships, disregarded for generations, ghettoized into unseemly neighborhoods, denied all the benefits of citizenship, denied credit and loans and education, denied voting and meaningful participation in government...and we are still huddled into unseemingly neighborhoods with little or no hope of escape because education systems are a mess, because we have inherited next to nothing in wealth because of years and years of denial of such benefits.
If you don't undeerstand that sort of anger, read Frantz Fanon's Wretched of the Earth...maybe then you'll understand.
Sorry to hear you were mugged, but that is the reckoning of all these systemic and institutional processes that hold people down; sorry to hear you actually tasted a bit of the bitterness that we do.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 39:
i understand....i as just telling you why i have developed a fear.
our fear of each other is based on real stories. yet it is not the rule.
yet fear has the effect of taking over and over riding our senses and our reason.
that's why it's so difficult. everyone has to calm down and choose a good course of action.
Why did I think you'd say that eventually?
Are you that afraid of angry black people?
what do you care...why don't you go mug someone.
i can play the game of trying to get a rise out of someone too, as childish as it is.
The fact that you have a national political party that stands for what is presented in this clip regarding the wife of a presidential nominee, makes me certain that the US is on the steep slope of inevitable decline and destruction.
It use to be said that the 20th century belonged to Canada. Well, if we could just rid ourselves of politicians who's biggest dream is to copy everything done in the US, we might just have a crack at it in the 21st century!
i'm beginning to wonder if GOP operatives won't go online and pose as asshole black people
just to try and change peoples perceptions. it's a real possibility. ITS THE ONLY card they have to play.
What is there to say? Lars is your stereotypical right-wing blowhard who trolls the tabloids of mass media to saying something provacative.
What truely amazes me is that anyone would take this idiot seriously.
I think that Jonathan Alter should have been much meaner with "Lard" Larson. His defence of Michelle Obama made the left look like a cream puff and in my opinion, Larson came out as the winner.
Is it just me, or does Lars Larson remind you of the salesman in Thank You For Smoking? Well, okay, he doesn't have the good looks and isn't as smooth, but he has the same palpably amoral anything-to-win gameface and indefatigable energy.
In an even more non-linear way, he reminds me of Dr. Goose from David Mitchell's incredibly f*ckng awesome novel, Cloud Atlas. The weak are meat, the strong shall eat.
I saw this last night and I was amazed at how pissed off Jonathan Alter was at this schmuck Lars Larson (where did he buy that name? I wonder what he is hiding from. lol). I even posted a comment on two different threads here at the time. It was very remarkable. Rarely do you see a pundit et so angry at another pundit or whatever you want to call Lars. Alter was PISSED OFF!!
http://www.salon.com/news/feat...../18/drugs/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0
This isn't news. Lars Larson is a putz - and I've never heard of him, he doesn't deserve air time. The blowhards are afraid for their jobs.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene,
I hope you consider the implication of what you are saying. You don't find that the least bit racist? You are calling me an "asshole" black person.
What, in any thing I said, we even remotely align me with the GOP? When is the last time you heard a Republican cite Frantz Fanon?
You are precisely the reason why many blacks don't trust so called liberals.
Somewhat off topic I know, but I would like to ask everyone to call (866) 675-2008 (Obama's campaign Number) and let him know what you think about his FISA position. Once you call press "6" to leave a message - the recorder is full so press "0" to talk to an attendant. I just called and spoke with a human. I told them that either Obama believes in the constitution or he doesn't - that this was the test. I told them that I was a supporter from the start and that I have donated regularly. I gave them info to verify that these statements were true. I also told them that if he voted to sell out our constitutional freedoms that there would be no more money from me. They were quite polite and said they would pass my comments on. Please follow my leed and let him know how you feel.
Pierre @ 49:
i respect your opinion but i saw it differently...lars was totally defensive/edge of being rude...in his mind rightly so..lars was much more black and white in his opinion...he appears to me to be a guy who rallies haters of people that aren't like and/or think like him...michelle explained her intentions...laura bush had a clarifying opinion.......it adds up to nothing except for people unable to think/communicate about important issues that require the grey areas of the thinking spectrum...waste of time
"I'll tell you how it's different. Obama is black!"
Lars Larson wasn't even born in the USA,he was born in Tiawain! Is he a real American?
How do we know he isn't a Red Chinese plant!
If he's so gung-ho and patriotic, why didn't he serve in the first Gulf War when he was also about Hannity's age of about 29?
Why didn't he serve in the military, he sure talks a bad talk! However most Republican blow-hards like him, have a backbone made of yellow jello!
Come-on Lars, what pressing problem kept you from fighting for your beloved Country? Was it your overt gayity?
"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" wasn't in effect at the time!
lars larson....doh.....erick erickson...sorry, got distracted, is an idiot.
This pig is from my hometown, Portland, OR, and he is a nightmare to listen to on the radio, where he has a strong foot hold in the right wing, disenchanted and disgruntled right wing nut jobs.
There is some other female shill, but she's so worthless, she's not even worth mentioning.
This pig is totally negative to ANYTHING having to do with a socialist touch to it...anything that does something for the environment, the poor and homeless, the less fortunate....he is a blood sucking critic.
I was so happy to see him get his ass handed to him on national tv. I was shocked to hear he made it on national airwaves, but pleased to see he was exposed for the worthless amatuer he is. Pig first class.
libsechumanist @ 52:
I don't know who this Lars Larson asshole is but it seems he is a carbon copy of John Gibson. why would MSNBC give him any air. Maybe just so Jonathan Alter could smack him down.
Aren't there any non-racist, non-dumbass spokespeople for the right wing out there? If you were a republican, wouldn't you be embarrassed by this guy?
52 libsechumanist Says:
"This isn’t news. Lars Larson is a putz - and I’ve never heard of him, he doesn’t deserve air time. The blowhards are afraid for their jobs."
I disagree. It is news because the smear campaign is in full swing and coming from all directions. It is news because the people who are smearing Obama are distracting people from the issues of the campaign.
You can see several different smears if you like by clicking on my name.
Fred @ 57:
Lars (is that your real name Lars? Really?) is a Gay Red Chinese communist plant? I'm stunned that the Republican would let this blowhard speak for them. well, not so much I guess. Gay Red Chinese communist? Wow.
Aren’t there any non-racist, non-dumbass spokespeople for the right wing out there? If you were a republican, wouldn’t you be embarrassed by this guy?
the reichwing has no shame, this guy is worse than that kevin james that Chris Matthews punked
If he is a plant where are his leaves?
i could be wrong i don't listen to red talk radio....(just doesn't work with my brain wiring the constant interruptions,high pitch/loud voices,rarely allow opposing opinions to establish their opinion,repetitive...very black and white thought process)this guy seems to be what i've seen alittle of in the last 8 yrs.....he rallies haters people who want to blame liberals or people that don't like liberals because they're told we don't like/agree with them.........this guy is professional divider..he doesn't produce anything he's not interesting....
Come on now haven't you heard it is the TEFLON OBAMA CLAN. Rev. WRIGHT, HOODWINK, BAMBOOZLE RACE BAITING, COCAINE USE, AYERS, AUCHI, REZKO and of coarse his adoring wife. Don't ask questions or you are a racist you know that by now. Don't you?
As a black person, would you be proud of a country who thinks it's okay to sell T-shirts featuring Klan lynch mobs chasing your husband, or a swinging noose? http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/20/website-pulls-down-racist-obama-t-sh...
The fact that there is still a market for these things (and the many other racist "merchandise" concerning Obama) is horrifying in the extreme.
Asking questions is one thing making up lies is another.
Related to all this ranting about Michelle Obama, strong (code for angry) black women, whether family members are off limits, and who can be trusted to tell the truth is the very revealing information that is not being reported by the mainstream media. Cindy and John McCain are characterless people compared to the Obamas. Imagine Michelle and Barack lying to each other about their age or having gotten together while Barack was married to someone else. It's lovely to see the profound connection, genuine affection and positive regard they have for one another. Something that cannot be faked. Sad for the McCains that they seem so hapless by comparison. It is unpleasant to bring up such things, what should be no one's business http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0 but when Cindy McCain is marched out to attack Michelle Obama's patriotism and the media gives so much coverage to those who attack Michelle, it becomes necessary to look a little deeper at the real character of the people who are throwing the stones. It is stunning to see how much of a pass the mainstream media gives Mrs. McCain. Please help bring this information forward as the underlying character of the people who would ask to lead us is every bit as important as the issues that are also so superficially dealt with. After all, the values that drive their policies are reflected in their characters.
A Random Quick Lesson In Smear Tactics.
http://bigotsunitedformccain.blogspot.com/2008/06/random-quick-lesson-in...
What do you think about this t shirt Phil?
http://bigotsunitedformccain.blogspot.com/2008/06/scaring-voters-off.html
Rick, you may ramble but look at the slippery slope into the sludge in the sewer the right wing smear machine is sliding down before you start lecturing me on what to think.
instead of attacking larson....who is the gutter version of el druggo, why didnt they just point out step by step where he was wrong
for example...that old mans party was for one of the biggest racists and rapists in the senate
why dont they point out that unlike him and other white aholes, michelle and other african americans as well as normal people, look at the country in toto
i could give a shit if lars is doing ok...the country is not and they are angry
and when the economy continues in a tail spin, and ad revenue drops...ole mr larson is gonna be on the same soup kitchen line as me
and then, im gonna kick his ass to the curb
for my pimp hand is strong
The irony in all of this, of course, is that both Obamas come across as such genuinely thoughtful, intelligent people with a profound positive regard for each other that can't be faked. Michelle Obama is a bright shining light, and the more I see of her, the more I am impressed with her brilliance. I hope she is nourished by those around her who help remind her that she is in a class far beyond those who attack her.
xoites defends Constitution @ 70:
i don't know if that shirt is for real but i do know there are people who get off on that crap....rally the haters..these people get off on adrenaline rush from hating..it's a big reason nothing gets done in washington. the hate divides and takes people thoughts off what's important......i'm sick of it
Go Uncle JOE!
Chris @ 53:
im saying it's a possibility.. i don't think i saw your name mentioned anywhere. get a grip.
notice how larson uses the term "fortunate" in describing michelle obama
she isnt fortunate...she worked her ass off
larson on the other hand is fortunate....cuz his show is basically a repeat of el druggo and hannity
Lars Larson shows no facial movement, no expression at all. That makes him a likely sociopath.
74 karl Says: xoites defends Constitution @ 70:
What do you think about this t shirt Phil?
http://bigotsunitedformccain.b.....s-off.html
i don’t know if that shirt is for real but i do know there are people who get off on that crap….rally the haters..these people get off on adrenaline rush from hating..it’s a big reason nothing gets done in washington. the hate divides and takes people thoughts off what’s important……i’m sick of it
=======================
It is indeed for real. Look at the fourth entry on Daily Kos
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/20/0338/19338/230/538782
xoites defends Constitution @ 71:
He's not lecturing. He's regurgitating what Rush/Hannity spoon feeds him. Clean up on aisle #66.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 76:
I think Chris and Eugene should stop for a second and realize they are on the same side.
Folks it's as simple as this: Right-Wing politics has never and will never prevail based in any election based on truth or any kind of logical platform.
That's because right-wing politics (not moderate Republican politics and there is a difference) is at its core, a Fascist ideology.
Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini never rose to power based on a "my platform is better than the other guy's and here's why" strategy.
They lied, distorted, and cheated their way into power. Everyone of them.
People like Lars are their propaganda artists. They will never admit to any wrongdoing because to them, the ends-justify-the-means methods they use get the job done, pave the way for their ideas to be implemented.
Ideas that they selfishly and self-righteouslly believe have no alternative.
That's why they are un-American traitors who have destroyed our democratic processes of election, accountability, compromise, and debate.
The only way to counter them is to expose their lies and fight viciously whenever possible. Good job Dan.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene,
I my lord, you are nothing but spin. There is no need to mention my name, it is clearly implied. Who the hell else were you referring to? Why else would you bring it up but for what I said?
That sort of passive aggressive behavior, where you deny you are talking to someone, but all conventions of communication clearly suggest you are, is better left to outside of this forum.
Even if I were a "plant" for the Repubs, that is irrevelant to the things I'm saying; judge them on their own grounds, and address them accordingly.
xoites defends Constitution @ 84:
yes lets direct this anger where it belongs..........not on skin, but on manipulation and corruption of the soul.
LET US FIND PEACE TOGETHER!
yakfitguy @ 85:
that's what i've been trying say..........you did a better job of it
Please! I don't watch Hannity of listen to the fool Rush! I know it's hard to believe in todays world a person who makes decisions for themselves. This is a pro Obama site I guess and the Kool_Aid flowed by the bucket but I'm sick and tired of being called a racist by such a racist as Obama. He played the race card in SC with calling President Bill Clinton out for race baiting wtih the fairy tail remark.while he was using terms such as Bamboozle and Hoodwink and Okeydoke. Words right out of Malcolm X's speeches. He was the divider of the Democratic Party. NOT ME!
Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 60:
Lars Larson is just another right-wing radio wannabe. MSNBC put him on the air because he was the next available piece of cannonfodder after the unfortunate Kevin James. He'll run into the wrong liberal pundit some night and get chewed up and spat out.
I never called you a racist, you seem to easily read things into what people say. Lars seems to do that too.
Rush Limbaugh with hair...
Borderline?
Why the qualifier?
Wow! Wow! (I just had to say that again!) Dan Abrams seriously took Lars to task there! There is no need to feel any sort or remorse for this hateful jerk not getting in his swiftboat-like jibes.
I used to tune into his dumb show once in a while when it was carried here in ABQ (call me a masochist!) and whenever someone called in to disagree, he would not let them speak, would not let them get their point across, raise his voice at them, and then lo and behold,they would run out of time for the person to respond. (oh boy what a surprise that is on a rightie talk radio show!)
I am happy that Jon Alter also did a good job of dissecting Larson's "argument." Look, Alter is a centrist-if Larson's tactics bother him, then its pretty obvious what that means.
Wow! I am still surprised about how Abrams spoke of Larson like he wasn't even there "guys like Lars Larson are out there..." Ha ha! Thanks for finally putting people like Larson in their place, Dan! On Fox he will be a hero. He's probably gonna go on Fox in a few days to tell his sob story of how he wasn't allowed do his usual smearing by a tactic he always uses on his own show!
I never said you did! The Obama campaign sure has .
Remember the "BRADLEY EFFECT"
I very rarely watch The Verdict. This segment reminded me of why.
Dan Abrams, as a supposedly neutral moderator, introduced the segment by calling the attacks on Michelle Obama a right wing smear -- BEFORE the panel discussed it. How do you have an evenhanded discussion when the moderator frames it this way? It's impossible.
Then, when Lars Larson had the termerity to quote Ms. Obama, he was not only attacked by both left wing panelists AND Abrams, but had the race card palyed against him by Alter.
Let me repeat: all Larson did was to quote Michelle Obama. HER words, not his. Personally I would have walked off when that happened.
These are the people who attack Fox? Their standards are nonexistent.
Who is Lars Larson, anyway? Has he invented this name himself? Or did he get it by his producer? Why not Heini Heinerton? Dicky Dickston? Duffy Duck? Mork from Ork?
I mean, come on. Why even give airtime to some sorry Limbaugh-wanna-be.
Yeah, Ken. Just like this guy did:
Here is how to create a smear that will have just enough credibility to slip into a News story. If you really want to prove you are a great slime thrower you can’t measure your acumen based on whether or not Fox News repeated it. If Fox News did not repeat it you know you are doing it wrong and should start over.
First you have to take what Obama actually did say and get creative. For instance Ted Belman who is a master at this read this statement by Barack Obama:
"Nobody has suffered more than the Palestinian people from the failure of the Palestinian leadership to recognize Israel, to renounce violence, and to get serious about negotiating peace and security for the region. Israel is the linchpin of much of our efforts in the Middle East."
Then Ted Belman came up with this:
“Barack Obama has said, ‘Nobody has suffered more than the Palestinian people.'”
See how it works? He DID say that!
Now go out there and listen carefully to everything Barrack Obama says and do your best to cut and paste it into a smear. Remember, McCain is counting on your support. He can’t win without you.
Same old repub tactics
Every Dem mole hill a mountain
Every Repub mountain a mole hill.
Michelle gets hammered for not being proud of America all her adult life
But Repub McCain gets a pass on not being proud until he was deprived.
So McCain was not proud of America when he was at Annapolis?
McCain was not proud of America while he was in pilot training?
McCain was not proud of America as an active duty officer serving his country even before he was shut down and became a POW?
McCain responds to a questioner last week and says that he, McCain, understands how it is hard for a person today to be proud of America.
But that is all less notable than Michelle, the wife of the Dem nominee.
McCain is the nominee and Repub candidate for President.
His words and thoughts are far less news worthy than those of his opponent's wife.
At least in the view of the far right.
See, for them, one must take the whole McCain experience of 50 years. One must take his previous maverick role and war hero staus as the real image and ignore the cave-in to the Neo-Con and Religious far right of the past 4 or so years.
With Michelle, as with any Dem, its is perfectly proper to quote a sentence or two and declare that they have the only possible interpretation and understanding, the real hidden meaning, the true story of the whole person
And wouldn't you know it, some how the Right always find that those Dems coming up short in patriotism and love of country.
I mean, you have had numerous Repub and right wing pundits making big noise over Obama not wearing an American flag lapel pin, even as they appear on TV without their own flag pin. The same action by a Dem gets big negatives and the Repub action gets ignored.
xoites
Did I mention Barack Obama?
I don't blame you for changing the subject.
Typo error in 100
McCain was SHOT down and not shut down.
Lars Larson says, "Michelle Obama said it was the first time she was proud of her country."
What Michelle Obama actually said:
"This is the first time I am REALLY proud of my country."
And i think she really really was and probably is.
Try living as a memebr of a race considered by many members of the race in power as inferior all your life and let me see your pride show through!
For 99
Good Work
Great example of Repub/ far Right deleting context to produce smear
xoites defends Constitution @ 103:
Excellent point x. I would like to see someone from the left ask them" Try being black for awhile and see how you feel"?
Man, I hope people don't take that wrong.
104 Jim Says: For 99
Good Work
Great example of Repub/ far Right deleting context to produce smear
=================
Thanks, you can see other examples if you click on my name.
I don't think anyone did, Mudshark. :)
xoites
Two points:
1) Maybe she said I am "really" proud in one of her speeches. On the video I just watched, from her Milwaukee speech, she did not.
2) I fail to see the difference. What's the alternative of being proud? Not being proud. What's the alternative to being really proud? Not being really proud.
And even if you were right, how does it change a thing? You cannot have a fair discussion of what was said if the moderator frames that discussion in a partisan way before it takes place. And the invocation of race, because Larson dared to QUOTE Michelle Obama was disgusting.
The video you saw was edited which is exactly my point.
Cut
Paste
Smear
Repeat
Ken Berwitz @ 109:
You give a shit about stupid crap like that? And think about it so hard you actually have 'reasons' for it?
Good Christ, you must have arseloads of free time.
After the cut this is what was removed:
nu·ance Audio Help /ˈnuɑns, ˈnyu-, nuˈɑns, nyu-; Fr. nüˈɑ̃s/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[noo-ahns, nyoo-, noo-ahns, nyoo-; Fr. ny-ahns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -anc·es Audio Help /-ɑnsɪz, -ˈɑnsɪz; Fr. -ˈɑ̃s/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-ahn-siz, -ahn-siz; Fr. -ahns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. 1. a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response, etc.
2. a very slight difference or variation in color or tone.
xoites
This is my last post, because you are making it up as you go along.
You don't know what video I saw or whether there was dialogue before her comment (which there was, as a matter of fact) that established context.
She said it. She said it in context. And - again - even if she DIDN'T say it, that was something to be discussed by the panel, not framed in a way that declared one side of the panel right before the discussion ever took place.
If you consider this some kind of debate "win", congratulations. You're welcome to it.
To 109,
Do really only see two options and those as polar opposites?
I am proud or I am not proud are the only choices?
How about
I have mixed feelings or I a feel neutral.
She does say that I am proud now.
To read in that she must have been an American hater before is extreme.
I am not making anything up. I have seen a tape, apparently that you have not. You saw an edited tape someone doctored up to shape your opinion. Don't look for the original tape because it will confuse you and we wouldn't want that.
Ken Berwitz @ 113:
Ken, let me ask you this. How do you feel about Sen McCains statement that he never loved America until he was denied it?
Wow, I don't think I've seen this guy before, but what an ass. Dude, when Laura Bush stands up for Michelle Obama (and Michelle Obama thanks her for it), it's over. The Ayers thing is just weak. But Lars plays dumb. Just another conservative bad faith hack.
Ken,
And how do you feel about a man who is married and lies about his age to his mistress? Is this someone who inspires your trust?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7LUT1ezm0
i am sorry to anyone i have ever offended.......i am ashamed. please accept my apologies.
my mother raised me better.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 119:
I don't think you've offended anyone eugene.
but do be carefullWITHTHATAXE
Abrams is on this story again RIGHT NOW. McGranpa is saying how hard it is to love Amerka.
MSNBC NOW
miss_kitty @ 111:
OMFG, miss kitty, I can't believe I read that from you of all people. You spend your entire life on here musing about the most banal shit ever and you have the audacity to chastise someone else for writing about 'stupid crap'?
You and xoites would make a great team. Hypocrisy abounds.
Arseloads of free time- good one. 'Ok for me but not for thee'.
I still don't like the quote, it's too useful for flag waving, purple heart bandaid wearing republicans, so I can understand the pushback, except for claiming an implied racist comment in her naysayers. That's simply using the naysayers techniques by merely flipping who deserves the accusation of racism back on to them.
This race has been amazing in the number of racist charges from Obama supporters against opponents, while simultanously claiming he's not running a race based campaign.
{ Deleted, Please don't post in all Caps or in all Bold lettering. It's yelling. Site Monitor}
122 dennis
Weren't you the one that made a comment on an earlier thread that said nothing but:
whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine
whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine
whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine
whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine whine
LOL?
I would say at best Michelle Obama's comment was akin to many Americans. We don't feel any particular patriotism until it somehow benefits us personally.
But that would be raising selfishness and narcissism to a virtue.
we wouldn't be in this bush disaster if we had some kind of Fairness Doctrine to prevent idiots like larsen from controlling the political and current events discourse with their coordinated uncontested repetition of GOP lies, talking points, and swiftboating. guys like larson get to repeat their crap to millions and few people will ever get to hear alter put him down. what alter did would already have been done by larsen's "contituents" if he actually had to take unscreened calls.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 125:
maybe it's not yelling, maybe it's crying
BennyP @ 41:
Yes, the notion of anger needs to be "re-framed" because of that reason. I agree with that totally. But sometimes, one has to embrace a word and turn the tables on it so it isn't so offensive. That's part of the two sides of the coin. We have to take back the issue of defining anger so that the dominant culture does not define it for us.
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 45:
Now this is uncalled for. I know that as a black person, I am very offended by this.
Yes. You started it by describing how you got mugged. Which leads me to a couple of questions:
1) Do you ever think how a black person will respond when you continue to mention your mugging to them?
2) Do you randomly tell white people that you were mugged by some black people when they discuss race? How do they respond?
carefulwiththatAXEeugene @ 47:
You are definitely a piece of work.
SO... Lars Larson thinks M.Obama should shut up because she has been so fortunate? Why is she fortunate? Because white america has given this pitiful black person some scraps from their table and she should have the decency to stfu?!
All you race-fixated people are a bunch of fucking morons and possibly trolls. I'm 3 and 1/2 years younger than Michelle and a white male and I haven't been proud of my country since we elected that piece-of-shit Ronald Reagan. The only difference between Ronnie and 'Dubya' is that Ronnie was a decent judge of talent and 'Dubya' was an abysmal judge of talent. When things inevitably went wrong Reagan had smart people's opinions to draw upon and Dubya was dependent upon his wet-brained cabal of ass-kissers. Thus George W. Bush is hated and Reagan is still loved when they shared the same equally destructive beliefs.
Things have gone wrong these past 25+ years because the conservative movement has attacked America from within - they hate America far more than Al-Quaeda does - and to deny this simple fact is self delusional. The only real war George W. Bush and his supporters are fighting is the 'culture war'- he could give a damn about bin Laden. The last 28 years are nothing to be proud of and the last 8 years are certainly something to be ashamed of. Many conservatives expressed themselves as ashamed of their country because of Bill Clinton's adultery: an act insignificant in the context of the human rights abuses, criminal negligence and the blatant corruption of the George W. Bush administration. These same conservatives would today attack Michelle Obama for her very real outrage at their openly despicable behavior.
Michelle Obama would have been attacked for what she said, just the same, if she was white. She would be an elitist, Ivy League grad, liberal white attorney WHO DIDN'T PROPERLY LOVE AMERICA. She would have been damned even without the race card. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, except insofar as conservatives seek to divide us racially. Stay Together. Race, in this particular instance, is a massive distraction. To put this in racial terms is to play into the hands of America's #1 enemy: the conservative movement.
To be honest, joe, I mostly agree with you.
Where I disagree is the part that you said that this wasn't about race. There is a difference in this country when a white person says they aren't proud of their country opposed to when a black person says it.
When a white person says it, it is taken to be a matter of fact opinion.
When a black person says it (like in Michelle Obama's case), the comments turns into a national nightmare and an attack on American (white) values.
The problem is that because she said she wasn't proud of her country, she appears to some folks as "uppity". That's the issue. People expect black folks to be "safe" and "docile" (meaning, not angry).
Michelle Obama steps out of that role when she speaks her mind. She turns into an angry person and not grateful for being an American (a la Pat Buchanan's "A Brief for Whitey").
See? There's a double standard here at work.
Yeah patriotism is just soooo important, divisive patriotism. Any one remember united we stand? Nope just Divide and Conquer
joeedugan @ 134:
That is absolutely brilliant!
Lars Larson cannot be reasoned with. The man will just suck your energy until you give up. There no compromise, no empathy, and certainly no understanding of what it was like to grow up as Michelle Obama that would make her say what she said.
Look we all know the truth is that people say all kinds of things and their meaning is as varied as the leaves on a tree. Nobody knows exactly what Michelle meant except for herself. Of course Lars is "just quoting her". Hey Lars you may be "just quoting her", but in the context of your commentary it sounds like a put down.
The thing is he'll never admit it. This guy is as partisan as they get. So don't waste your energy on him. I made the mistake of emailing him and got into a very fruitless conversation. The guy will argue and twist and spin until he burns you out. He's all smoke and mirrors no better than Limbaugh or Bill-O or Hannity.
"...she goes around saying America is a place that's downright mean, the average person can't make it..."
I'm sorry, which part of that statement is not true?
BTW, there are "opportunities" in every country and usually those "opportunities" are available to those with inside contacts, from wealthy families, and willing to be ruthless and dishonest.
Such is the nature of humanity.
this is an amazing thread, though no one may be here now.
barack hussein obama
michelle obama
Are they black or democrats?
Is the potential next president more black than democrat?
Is the potential next president more white than democrat?
Is the potential next president more american than democrat?
do we call obama half-something?
which side of the family loves him more?
what names did white people call him growing up?
what names did black people call him growing up?
what names do white people call him now?
what names do black people call him now?
I'd like to call barack the next president.
But that's just me.
Joe Tseng @ 139:
you're quoting a paraphrase from a reichwinger, so what part of that statement could possibly be actually from her mouth?
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 140:
I would like that as well.
But, there are things people cannot ignore. And if one does, the problem continues to linger and fester. Some issues cannot be swept under the rug.
Ceci@135 You are right: it is somewhat about race, but only in the sense that race is meant to distract us from the #1 issue: which is that the period from '81 on has been disastrous for 99%+ of Americans regardless of race, sex, religion, sexual preference etc. It's about social class more than any one thing: African Americans have a place in Conservative America - as long as they're willing to be a Clarence Thomas, Alan Keyes or Condi Rice. The vast majority of African Americans have too much integrity to be the 1st and 3rd of those and neither are they bat-shit insane a la Keyes.
Again if Barrack and Michelle were white, her comments would have been used, with her politics, her educational history, and her current income level to demonize her to a point where her race would be just one more extraneous layer of icing on the cake of out-of-touch liberal blame-America-firstness. Nobody buys that box at Safeway, whether it's angel food or Devil's food.
Conservatives are constantly seeking to divide us - on gay marriage in '04 and on immigration in '06 - so lets not play into their hands by seeing every attack on the Obamas as an attack on Black America when they are, in fact, attacks meant to destroy a coalition of Americans. Stick together and attack back - not in terms of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. - but on the absolutely sorry, indefensible record of the Conservatives themselves. Their own words and actions are far, far more than enough ammunition to destroy them. Arguing amongst ourselves about race can wait until after we've repaired the destruction of these past years.
CoIntelPro@137 Thanks for what you said, and I like very much what you said @140. Forget about race, elect Barrack Obama NOW. Wait four years, and then let's talk about race. My hope is that things will be better then. NOT PERFECT. Not by any means perfect. But BETTER. And then we can begin to build on THAT!
dennis @ 122:
Hello, Pot!
miss_kitty @ 145:
I just proved you right about one thing-and it's not "the entire life" part dennis. Quit projecting.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Democratic Party Victory @ 137:
Agreed, patriotism has turned into a cheap plastic gauntlet that gets thrown down to shame people into supporting moronic policies. What!?! You DON’T LOVE your cOUntry! For shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame on you, you liberal communist appeasers. Now excuse me while I cheapen this complex topic by reducing it to an idiotic dichotomous question worded in a way you can only agree with else appear like a treasonous traitor.
These kind of people need to be taken out back and given the abu ghraib welcome package.
joeedugan @ 143:
I agree that from 1981 on, all Americans have been horribly affected by conservative policies. They have done quite a bit to destroy upward mobility and social access.
But, respectfully, race is not a distraction. It is a part of everyone's identity. And for people of color, it is a part of our identity that all folks can see. We do not have the luxury for our skin color to be invisible due to the fact that laws, social practices, language, institutions and politics has made it such. Because of that, race is an issue just like class and gender is an issue. It cannot be swept under the rug and forgotten.
You're correct. Most Black folks do have too much integrity to not vote against their interests.
I must respectfully disagree on one point here: social class, in this case, only tries to hide the one ton elephant in the room. Alan Keyes, Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas serve the Republicans more than just being representative of social class. All three are used as beards because their color gives the Republicans license to hide their racism under the mask of the benign.
I disagree, mainly because as a woman of color, I have been privvy to how double standards are applied to the things I would say compared to someone who is white.
Believe me when I say that there have been many times I've witnessed black and white folks saying the same thing in such conversations related to politics and race. The same phrase uttered was treated in two different ways, often with negative results for the person of color who has said it. And as a result, it was treated as irrational or angry.
When the white person said the same thing, it was often taken as matter of fact and as gospel. As a result, white privilege gives blanket immunity for saying things that would cause social repercussions if a black person has said it. That has lingered on since the days of Jim Crow and continues to subtly happen.
It is easy to "not see it" for what it is. But, just because you "don't see it" that way, doesn't mean it is non-existent.
Yes, that is partly true. But, you are working on the assumption that America is equal and that all Americans are treated equally. You can't just write off the fact that the Obamas are being attacked partially because they are black. In fact, the Obamas are being attacked because there is a true, bonafide power issue here based on skin color.
There are a lot of white Americans who are afraid of Blacks in power. Why haven't you seen many Senators, Congresspeople, Mayors or Governors who are Black? Why do you think that is?
Yes, we do need to stick together. But, we need to also start an honest dialogue about race as well. The problem here is that you (as well as a lot of others) like to hide race and shove it under the rug. And there are some issues that cannot be ignored in such a fashion. I believe that to fight to Conservatives, we have to attack them also on all their biases, not just some.
If we ignore their bad behavior (including racist behavior), we all lose.
In my opinion Michelle Obama did not say anything wrong - and I'm proud of her. As for myself, I feel nothing but shame toward my country. So what right wing wacko is going to attack me?
It appears to me that too often people get so bent out of shape over non-issues. Mrs. Obama has her experiences - and her understanding of those experiences - and a whole lot of history to back her up. These neocons cannot and will not talk about the issues - the only things up their sleeves are picking at non issues and then blowing everything out of context. Hang in there people.
After seeing this fool Lards in action, seems to me the Republicans have a if we don't run this country, nobody will attitude. I've never heard of him, but if this is the kind of crap the right has been listening to for the last twenty five years, it's no wonder they're fffed up.
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