Fourth Amendment? What's That? Feingold Chastises Senate Over Airport Seizures
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jun 26, 2008 8:45amBack before I decided to downgrade career-wise to stay at home with my kids, I had to do a lot of traveling for my job, laptop, PDA, etc. in tow. Of course, this was pre-9/11, so I also didn't have to worry about removing my shoes, carrying water bottles or full body x-rays. Even last summer, we brought our laptop with us when we went to Europe so that I could work on my writing projects. I can't begin to express my outrage at the thought that the government would feel they have the right to seize that work without reasonable suspicion. And I have a clearly European surname. What would it be like for honest, law-abiding citizens with a Middle-Eastern name?
If you enter or leave the United States carrying a laptop, flash drive or cell phone, the government can collect and store a massive amount of personal information without first obtaining a warrant, having probable cause or even suspecting you of anything.
During a subcommittee hearing Wednesday, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) said the government needs to institute safeguards to protect Americans' privacy rights, and he accused the Department of Homeland Security of ducking from scrutiny of its overreach in searching electronics. DHS refused to send a representative to the hearing and secretary Michael Chertoff did not answer written questions from Feingold.
"Once again, this administration has demonstrated its perverse belief that it is entitled to keep anything and everything secret from the public it serves and their elected representatives, while Americans are not allowed to keep any secrets from their government," he said. "That's exactly backwards."
Fourth Amendment protections are less stringent at points of entry into the US. Courts have ruled that routine searches are permissible because the government's interest in keeping dangerous and illegal materials out of the country makes such searches "reasonable" without additional justification. For more invasive searches, such as strip-searches and x-rays, a customs agent must be able to show the person they are searching is likely a criminal.[..]
The laptop seizures have proved especially worrisome for business travelers, who could be crippled if they were unable to access data on a laptop seized by the government, said Susan Gurley, executive director of the Association of Corporate Travel Executives.
A survey of business travelers found that 7 percent had their laptops or other electronic device seized by the government, Gurley testified.
The committee's ranking Republican, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) defended the administration's random, suspicionless searches of laptop computers. It took him just over a minute during his opening remarks to play the 9/11 card, observing that plotter Zacarias Moussaoui used the same kind of computer favored by scores of business travelers, students and other law-abiding Americans.
"We also know that terrorists take advantage of this kind of technology," Brownback said, referring to laptop computers. "Mr. Moussaoui, for example, kept information on his laptop computer that if discovered might've prevented the Sept. 11 terror attacks. That's a sobering thought."
That's right, when it looks like we've turned into a fascist totalitarian state that laughs at the Fourth Amendment (it's not something critical like the Second Amendment, after all), invoke "maybe we could prevent another 9/11" card.
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The Patriot Act cancelled the fourth amendment.
If we ever hope to see it again; we need to repeal the Patriot act pronto!
They see us as nothing but property. And they can do as they want with their property.
That's what Bush means when he says we're an ownership society. They own this society.
and amurricans still wonder why the number of european tourists is reclining steadily ... freedom and democracy, my a**.
Why does noone call these pukes terrorists when they play the fear card? That IS what they are by the very definition of the word. They are using terror to promote warrantless wiretaps, illegal search and siezure and, my favorite of all, drilling for more fucking oil. They use it for everything, including their bids for election.
All of them should be in jail, at the most, and thrown out of public service, at the least.
What do they do with the computers etc, that they keep? I know the guy in the article told them to mail his to his lawyer, but do they give back the other things they take?
This is just insane. So what if a hundred terrorists have laptops, that doesn't mean that all people with laptops are terrorists.
TheConstitution @ 4:
Hopefully after the November elections they will be. This country cannot afford 4 more years of these traitors to our country.
I am convinced that nothing short of_______________will free us from the tyranny of the powers that are eroding our rights and twisting our economy.
Obama is already proven he is a punk, both my Senators are tools, and it seems we have all of 15 patriots in the Senate.
Our country has experienced this before, we know what to do.
We may just need that 2nd amendment to ensure they respect our 4th amendment.
Slouching towards fascist dictatorship.
raincntry @ 8:
yup. those privately owned guns will prove useful when blackwater visits to seize your homegrown veggies for the greater good ... like, 2013.
Do they have people at the airport who do nothing but scan through these computers and memory cards? Are they smart enough to know how to find the information they are looking for? Suppose all the information is in some language other than English, do they have a translator? This seems more like a scheme than a prevention. Kind of like making you toss out a $100 dollar bottle of perfume if it's in your purse and you are boarding a plane. It's more about them asserting their authority than about safety.
marko @ 7:
People have become much too complacent. When they are worried about paying for gas, sending their kids to school, making their mortgage payments, and paying off their mountains of consumer debt, all thought of anything else goes out the window. The powers that be know this. The erosion is steady, but it is happening right before our eyes.
spiritcatcher @ 3:
Are they?
considering the USD rate is in the toilet, tourism to the US should expand, its dirt cheap nowadays.
Hey, I bet terrorists use paper and pencil to write down their plans...let's random search and detain people carrying paper! Those dirty sneaking paper carrying bastards. If people don't want to be searched, they better not be carrying Paper for Mass Destruction Planning (PMDP)!
Here's a scenario: What if on a jump drive I carry scientific journal articles about meteorite impact simulations? Am I going to get a free trip to Club Guantanimo because the articles have scary words like 'hypervelocity', 'impact', 'nuclear explosion cratering'?
Scenario 2: What if I have naked pictures of my significant other on the drive (legal age, consenting, etc.)? Am I going to be arrested for international pornography pedaling?
Please, add your own scenario? We are all guilty now until we get released from prison x-years later for doing nothing!
marko @ 7:
Tomorrow's Obama press release: "Airport Security trumps illegal search and seizures."
Adam Franklin @ 12:
While I agree to a point that many people in this country have become complacent, I have to believe there are still enough patriots here to stop this madness. Once this bubble riddled economic policy thats been in place since the 70's finally collapses, and it will, the rest of the population will get the slap in the face they need.
spiritcatcher @ 3:
My European business partners travel here and stock up on clothes and junk from China for their families because of the exchange rate with the Euro. We have substituted our freedom and democracy for cheap goods and cheaper currency. The U.S. has become the world's flea market.
pissed off patricia @ 11:
I've worked in computer forensics...
With the sophisticated tools available on the market, they can scan a modern laptop in about a week and find anything hidden or encrypted. This can require a bank of expensive servers to do the job that quickly and accurately.
In a quick scan, all they can look for is low hanging fruit. Files in obvious places that are not hidden, protected and or encrypted. So they can bust people for legal porn if it isn't hidden well.
The DHS is a fucking joke, full of political hacks who don't have a fucking clue. As someone put it "blind leading the blind spinning wheels."
As far as oversight, or hiring competent people, that went out the window Papa Smirk. Putting all these agencies under one umbrella is never going to work.
spiritcatcher @ 10:
Did you see Jericho the serie ? Doesn't seem very fictional to me, after all...
Adam Franklin @ 12:
When gas hits $10 a gallon that will make EVERYTHING more expensive, just like food prices are going up now.
Our only hope is for blackouts, because blackouts are the only way to shut off the TV. And when the TV goes off, then you get pissed off Americans...sad isn't it...American Idol trumps constitutional rights.
This isn't anything new - check The Hacker Crackdown by Bruce Sterling, which relates the saga of Steve Jackson Games. Because one of their contributing authors had 'connections' to a known hacker group, the government raided their offices and confiscated all of their computers, which includes Mrs. Jackson's doctoral thesis.
marko @ 21:
Exactly. Nothing will happen so long as the Hypno-Boxes function.
Shadowgm Hussein @ 22:
Car Wars!!! GURPS!!!
Couldn't a "terrorist" just put all his computer secrets on a disk and mail it to his other terrorist buddies?
All presidential candidates must pass a test showing us how much they know or care about both the US Constitution and the Bill or Rights. No tippy toeing around with, "well, I'll do it later when you elect me", or the Constitution can be interpreted to reflect whatever thinking is fashionable.
I do not particularly care who goes to church and how often. I do not care who has a pithier slogan. I do not care whose wife best fits the title of First Lady. I am looking for a leader who will defend the constitution and restore the rights of the citizenry. I am not looking for a candidate who just blows smoke out of his ears just to get a vote.
And if anyone is seriously believing that either one of these present candidates is going to back away from what Bush and Company have sown in that regard, there is a bridge looking to be bought in Brooklyn.
I bet Moussaoui wore socks when he entered the US. Does that mean that DHS should confiscate everyone's socks?
Sigh.
Bush has set the stage now perfectly. He claims that all the things he has put in place are what has kept the country from another attack. If anyone of those things is changed and another attack should occur, it will be blamed on the person who changed bush's rules.
The thing is, the only major changes bush has really made is to take away the rights of the American people. Those can be replaced without losing any real means of security.
Upload your data encrypted all to hell, go through customs with a cheap, little stock device like an Asus 3e and download your data at your destination. Various ways to pass the key through customs.
Or Fed Ex your computer to your hotel.
So, yeah. Basically about as useful as taking off your shoes. It will catch some morons with porn.
Weaseldog @ 23:
I nicknamed it the 'Karl Rove Stupid Ray' long ago ... it's when people go channel surfing, hit something like Fox or CNN, and then their eyes glaze over, they forget what they were saying ...
We really do need to unplug, not because 'it will all go away if we ignore it,' but because private opinion - informed through intelligent conversation and reading/education - forms public opinion. We're too dependent on the 'experts' who 'are here to tell us what it all means.'
"“We also know that terrorists take advantage of this kind of technology,” Brownback said, referring to laptop computers."
We also know that terrorists eat food. Anyone seen eating will be detained by DHS and sent to Guantanamo for questioning. Sheesh.
Who can afford to fly?
mudshark @ 32:
Just "terrorists" I guess.
Required viewing: V for Vendetta
pissed off patricia @ 33:
The worst ones fly on Air Force One and Two.
Welcome to the New World Order Police State
Nobody has ever detected any of my flash drives. Even an x-ray wouldn't find one behind a belt buckle. As they're available now up to 32GB, I have to ask: How much stuff do you have on your laptop hard drive that you'd risk taking out of town regardless of whether you fly or not? How much can you afford to lose? Just the theft problem alone is sufficient to make me backup onto a separate drive at home before a trip.
marko @ 7:
You probably could make point from time to time if you weren't so obsessed with your one dimensional loathing for Obama. He hasn't taken office yet to implement the changes he's promised. Right now Obama is the junior Senator from Illinois and yes, he does have power and his FISA vote is INEXCUSABLE, but a little patience might suit you better. Your giving up on Obama before he has actually won the Presidency(frankly, I don't think you have ever, or ever will support Obama) is telling.
So, by Sen. Brownback's logic (Post hoc ergo procter hoc.) if, on march 31, 1865, all actors had been indefinitely detained, we might have avoided Abraham Lincoln being shot. Therefore, at least 7% of actors being detain without ccause is an acceptable means of providing presidential security.
So what is to stop someone from putting particularly mean virus on their laptop, one that will only activate when opened or transferred to another HD. One that is purposed to wipe another computer clean?
pissed off patricia @ 11:
Are they smart enough to find the information they are looking for? No. These are the same TSA agents that have let fake bombs through during security checks, have made mother's drink their own breast milk and truly believe that we are safer if you are allowed a 4oz bottle of liquid but that it will be death to us all if you have an 8oz bottle of fluid.
So, do I believe they would know what they were looking at if they read some of my work stuff? No. Furthermore, I don't believe they have any right to do so. One of these people who's laptops got taken needs to sue, just like the gun onwer's did and challenge this to the SCOTUS.
At this point if I were flying overseas, I think I would ship all my stuff ahead of time and make arrangements to have it stored at the hotel. It used to be the only thing you would worry about was your luggage getting lost in transit. Today you have to worry about the government taking your possessions from you.
That should have an impact on business trips from other nations. I worked for an international corporation and travel across the big pond was all part of doing business. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to the needless searches and confiscations at our airports?
My email to Claire McCaskill, D-MO my so called Senator. Use this as a template for emailing your senator.
"Senator,
I am so utterly disappointed in your vote for the FISA "capitulation". I voted for you, I have supported you, I was PROUD to have you in thenSenate, now...I am ashamed.
Here are my issues...
1. Bush and CO. have broken many laws, among them illegal wiretapping. Now they are covered, thanks in part to you.
2. FISA was not broken. All it needed was the Congress to make sure the Executive Branch complied with it.
3. Feinstein and Pelosi KNEW Bush was breaking the law and went along with it, making them just as guilty. Now they are covered.
4. The 4th Amendment is now just a memory and it's farewell was sanctioned by you.
5. Kit Bond, your "collegue" and "swimming instructor" is so happy to have "more than we could ever ask for"!! Thanks in part to you.
Are we safer now? No.
Is our constitutional form of government stronger, No.
Are Feinstein, Pelosi, Rockefller et al. safe from
civil suits from their complicity in illegal wiretaps? Yes.
So now the "progressive uprising", that is helping elect truly progressive candidates all over this country has a new target, a new Bush enabler to remove from office.
That enabler is Claire McCaskill.
mlk"
You could also just log onto your computer remotely and never carry any of your "plans" with you.....
And I agree with former posters, anyone seen carrying paper or eating should be shot on sight. Don't even think about breathing!
Avoid flying whenever possible. Not whenever convenient, whenever possible. Allow for longer travel times. Don't reward them for treating you like a criminal by paying them for the privilege of dehumanization.
You know what's really stupid about searching people's laptops and stuff like that? Viruses. Hell, if I wanted to really cause trouble, I'd have me a laptop with a really nasty virus on it, then act suspisous at an airport, and hope that when they try and download anything from my computer; BAM!
All the hijackers were men, right? I'm a woman so TSA should leave me alone when I fly.
I would imagine that the "the terrorists" don't carry their plans with them on their computers when they fly. They are probably smarter than that.
If Airport security reached into my boxers, I'd probably have an Airport Seizure.
This morning while I was shaving, I was hearing this female voice on TV saying
"Okay, now move your ball back and forth,"
I was like, WTF, until I realized it was an early morning exercise show.
Left&Left @ 38:
OK, as I have said before, I will vote for Obama.
I did not tell Obama to run on a "change Washington" ticket.
He decided to ACT like a progressive, so when he does a double back flip right into the arms of the Neocons, for the benefit of
our so called Democrat leaders, I am going to react.
One dimensional, hardly. I am pissed at Obama for many reasons, as I have stated in many posts.
Obsessed? Hmmmm???
I am obsessed with freedom and the rule of law yes.
I am obsessed with accountability and peace.
I am obsessed with a progressive movement that can change the "flea market" that is Washington.
Obama asked us (progressives)on a date, stood us up, and went out with our worst enemy.
Left&Left, take a deep breath think my friend.
Wow! Just when you thought you heard it all. What will the next president do, corner the legislature into becoming just a public forum where nothing substantial is done besides recognizing infants and making statements of public support for the 'elected' dictator. I've been pushing this movie alot, but it shows the power of the public when exercised correctly and in unison, Bringing Down a Dictator.
ysbaddaden @ 49:
Do you only have one?
Pat J @26:
"And if anyone is seriously believing that either one of these present candidates is going to back away from what Bush and Company have sown in that regard, there is a bridge looking to be bought in Brooklyn."
Right. Nothing will change regardless of wheter Obama or McPain gets installed as our next President. The global corporations and the international financial cabal own our government, lock, stock and barrel. Congresspeople - reps and sens - dems and repugs - take money (bribes) hand-over-fist to get "elected" and then to stay in office for life, if possible. These are not the best and the brightest (just listen to C-Span for a day) just the most coniving.
Feingold, Dorgan, and a few others occasionally stand and speak the truth, to what end? The majority of Americans never hear about their protests on the Senate floor - the MSM and cable news outlets rarely mention any dissent. They mostly reapt the daily, approved talking points - this is not journalism. One has to look long and hard to find reporting of the actual truth.
I think it would be nice if one of the defenders of our Republic would stand in the
House or Senate chamber one day and read aloud the Declaration of Independence - with emphasis on the part where it says the People have the Right to Dissolve any Government and start over. I think it may be time to do just that.
Have they heard of the internet??? There are numerous sites one can upload files to and download when one gets to a destination. Or simply buy a computer at the destination and upload all your files.
Is there any part of the constitution they haven't shit on yet?
....didn't think so.
Fanon @ 52:
Three.
lucid fiction @ 55:
Sure, you can still own a gun......
Amitola @ 53:
http://myfightfordemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-declaration-of-indep...
And how does that relate to Bush Administration officials using unauthorized laptops and e-mail servers to circumvent the PRA?
If you think getting computers through the airports are bad, try being a musician and having to travel with your equipment. I've had a tuner taken (and never returned), a metronome questioned and have practically had to put the stupid things together to play for them at security to prove I was "legit".
Last summer the husband was pulled out of line - ever time- on a series of flights to Europe. The problem? Two tuba mouthpieces he carried on his person. Had to demonstrate how they were used then got the full pat-down.
Fanon @ 41:
I believe the law has been arranged so that you cannot challenge security detentions in court.
And if they're too dumb to recognize terrorist evidence, god knows what they'll do with people's private files. All I can count on from dumb security people are more hassles.
It is simple.
THIS IS NOT AMERICA ANYMORE.
America is gone and, absent major revolutiuon, gone for good. Get used to it. Pep talks won't make it otherwise.
Since we've learned about the illegal spying by the Bush Administration, I have wondered why more business people haven't been more riled up. Business secrets ...poof, gone like that, with the excuse of National Security. Want to know what your competition is doing? Get one of your Bush cronies to pull some strings or just go through the telecoms and read what's on the VP of one of your divisions desktop? The scenarios go on and on.
Gretchen @ 60:
They almost took a sterling silver cuff bracelet from me. It was in my purse in a little black velvet protection bag and then in a box. They took it out of the bag and took it somewhere else to confirm it was indeed a bracelet and not some sort of weapon. Then as I walked away with my bracelet, they called me back and handed me a diamond Rolex ladies watch. I told them it wasn't mine but they kept insisting that it was. I finally told them I didn't want it and they let me go.
Okay Brownback, so you are saying Americans are using 99-00 era laptops in 2008???? No shit our education and business are in the toilet if our students and businessfolks are using such outdated laptops!
Unless, of course, Brownback was speaking from his BrownEye...
pissed off patricia @ 64:
I'm not traveling for work this summer (too expensive - can't make enough profit) but if things don't improve I'm dreading next year. I need to take instruments and computer with me for carry-on and as of right now I'm only allowed one. I'll have to check baggage (and pay) no matter what and then there isn't any guarantee that I won't show at my destination without baggage for 3 days as happened in Munich last year.
I understand why the security is necessary but I do think they're going about it the wrong way. As many posters have pointed out, you don't need to carry the info with you; you can download it from the net once you're here. And Hugs to you for not taking the Rolex! I wonder if it ever did find its way back to its owner?
John @ 9:
"
Slouching?? If you have a chance, google "Mussolini" and you'll know that you are already there.
Ron @ 58:
I read your blog "Declaration" - nice indictment of Cheney/Bush and the rest of our gov't. I'll be sending it along to some folks I know, but since most people I know have the attention span of a gnat, I doubt they'll read it all the way through.
As the 4th of July is next week - maybe some person of stature (no offense, Ron) could actually read the Declaration of Independence in a very public and emphatic way - so Americans could be reminded (at least the ones who ever read or learned about the Declaration and the Constitution in the first place) that these documents, the Rule of Law, and the Will of the People are what the United States of America really is, and stands for.
The People need to be reminded, again and again, over and over, that We are the repository of power - not the creeps who currently reside in Washington. Making that idea uppermost in the minds of a majority of Americans would be a very good start at correcting what ails us.
What about the danger of underwear? It is a FACT that Zacarias Moussaoui wore underwear while plotting his nefarious deeds.
“We also know that terrorists take advantage of this kind of technology,” Brownback said, referring to laptop computers. “Mr. Moussaoui, for example, kept information on his laptop computer that if discovered might’ve prevented the Sept. 11 terror attacks. That’s a sobering thought.”
Actually Sen. Brownback, we might have prevented 9/11 if your boy-king had not ignored warnings from the CIA.
Marko@50
OK Marko, I took that deep breathe. Obama never should have voted for this criminal FISA bill. To be fair, it's going to take many,many years to clean up this shit Dubya & co have left us. It will also take time to clear the Senate and House of the many Judas'(both parties) who were compliant to these crimes and clearly intend to obstruct Obama. This is a shitty mess that simply will take time. Right now to win the Presidency first, Obama must play the game and work with people he knows will eventually be his enemies. You unrealistically expect too much too soon from Obama. To me the choice is clear....trust Obama or McBush.
mudshark @ 32:
I bought tickets in January for a June flight for my family of four. It was a significant amount of money, but just do-able for us. Now air fare for that same route has doubled. They have effectively priced me out of the market. We won't be flying any more.
I just flew from Sacramento to Chicago and not only did they make me remove my shoes, but they made me take off my shirt. It was like a Digital Funtown sketch or something. This situation has gotten totally out of hand and I did actually shoot off a letter to my congresswoman about it. The worst are the people who put up with it, saying "as long as it makes us safer, I don't care." The people that make civil-rights out to be a trivial leftist issue REALLY get my goat. Well, proverbially of course. They can't have my actual goat.
the Dense-o-crats are going to do what?
after that fine speech, I'm sure the paid-for dems will vote their wallets and not their conscience.
they have been doing so since bush1 and thru to now.
just like carlin says: the rich have everyone else at each others' throats while they are collecting the money.
It's only going to get worse. Just getting a new President is not going to change anything. New Presidents rarely relinquish powers collected by the predecessors.
it's going to be interesting when pissed off hackers and wonks start loading their electronics with virii and spyware for the government computers to catch when they rifle thru their files. i don't believe they know what they're in for. government computer tech and savvy is very laggy compared to industry and the new crop of current hackers.
Amitola @ 68:
That's why I wrote it last year, to remind people of what's happening now.
TheConstitution @ 4:
public service?
To answer post 63.
Business people have their important stuff backed up on servers, FTP sites, etc. The only people who have everything on their personal laptops are the common folk. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones the Patriot Act and the government are after!
It is time for people to begin to pay attention to what is going on and vote according to their own best interest.
The kids are talking about this 'series of tubes' thing, where you can put something in one end and pull it out the other - like an elephant, or 'electronic mail', or terrorists plans. I don't understand it, but I hear it's good.
Seriously, what the @!$!$@%^@#$!... Who do they think they're going to catch by stealing people's lap-tops? And the obvious answer is: no-one. Yet another ruse in the name of public security to scan for personal information and further intimidate the masses. I realize that's stating the obvious, but saying it out loud helps keep me from setting fire to things or having an aneurysm.
I got onto the ferry in New York to go to Ellis Island and the guy asked me to take off my belt. I asked 'why?' (I honestly wanted to know... most metal detectors now can distinguish) and I nearly got beat down - like I called his mother something. Sure, man, I'm going to commandeer the ferry with my belt and crash it into the Statue of Liberty. Take that, America!
Where has common sense gone...?
okay, let's play the 9/11 game . . . but how are we going to find mr. moussaui's nefarious information if we randomly collect the laptop contents of 7% of business travelers, and at least that many leisure travelers? no matter how big our police state, we could never have enough manpower and machinery to slog through that many gigs
the grim constitutional implications aside, the problem with unreasonable searches is the injudicious use of resources
why aren't the pro gun lovers who swear their love for the constitution up in arms about this.................because they don't think for themselves. they have to be told by their heirarchy what to do.... that's why they love freedom.
I really don't understand it. If the DHS can seize my intellectual property, not to mention business proprietary information, why can't I carry a handgun onto the airplane. Doesn't make sense.
Brendan @ 80:
your ferry story reminds me of traveling through syria many years ago, and while being jerked around by corrupt officials and secret police, wishing that i was back home, where i had rights and recourse to justice . . . but, like i said, that was a long time ago, when america was america and the constitution shone like a beacon in the wilderness
Don Farnsworth @ 73:
I was about 8 months pregnant the last time I flew. I was yelled at by the TSA agent for not taking my shoes off fast enough and holding up the line. As I walked through the metal detector she called me a stupid c*nt. I am NOT kidding. People around us gasped. I asked for her name and her supervisor and was told that she did not have to provide me her name and that if I continued to hold up the line (there was none) and continued to cause a disturbance they would call the police and have me arrested. Looking back, I should have let them call the police and the local news channel while they were at it. Instead, I filed a complaint (with no names or badge numbers on it, of course, because they wouldn't provide them to me). I am sure that complaint ended up right in the garbage can when I walked away. It was such a humiliating experience. But, we're safer, right?
Don Farnsworth @ 73:
Amen. I get so fired up at the airport I can't stand it. My wife hates flying anywhere with me (or at least going through security checkpoints) because I get so irritated. She happens to be one of those "if it makes us safer" types and simply gets frustrated when I try to explain to her the ridiculousness of it all. From shoes to 4oz bottles of liquid, I can't imagine what things will be like if some knucklehead tries to smugle something on board a pl@ne stitched into the lining of his pants. All of a sudden we'll have to be taking our pants off and putting them through the detector...
just give 'em something to copy so they're happy ... like about 171 GB of encrypted data. random stream with checksum correction, anyone ?
Fanon @ 85:
this story literally made me sick to my stomach, and i am very sorry to hear that you were treated so crudely . . . and i find myself wondering what life must be like for pregnant women living in one of our war zones, going through armed checkpoints with nowhere to even send a letter of protest
Mike Taylor @ 79:
Their data and phone calls go through nodes where the NSA Filters record everything of interest. This data is put on corporate servers at place like Choice Point, where they get hacked often.
The whole spying business would work great for corporate espionage. But what kind of people would steal corporate information from their competitors, and use it for their own purposes?
TheConstitution @ 4:
It's because the media (forget 'mainstream,' that's the gimmick used to get the media to softpedal their crimes) won't challenge them, and treats their actions as if they have merit. Instead of hammering 'illegal' and 'warrantless,' they kept calling it 'controversial' or 'secret'.
It's because America DID forget 'why we fight' - but not for the reasons that Bush and his cohorts in crime like to suggest. We have always fought, but against the very things they stand for. We fought against Communism and the secret police mentality of Stalin, and Dzherzinsky (who looks a lot like Chertoff, IMHO). We fought against Nazi Germany, and the imperial ambitions of Adolf Hitler. We fought against Mussolini.
America's strength comes from our freedoms and the diversity of our voices - it's why our motto is E Pluribus Unum - 'out of many, one' - (and not 'In SkyDaddy We Trust'). Instead, we stand dumbfounded as we are told that it's unpatriotic to criticize a corrupt and incompetent president; we are confounded by demagogues like Rush Limbaugh, who hoodwink their listeners into believing that volume of voice is the same as depth of character, and that a national radio show means your opinions are anything more than an excuse to sell Preparation H or car wax.
We are being held hostage. It's time to tell the crooks we're not going to play their game.
Brendan @ 80: Where has common sense gone...?
Common sense was when we were told to buy lots of duct tape and plastic to cover our windows. Common sense was when we were warned by different colors how dangerous it was "out there." Common sense was when we were told 9/11 was the work of Sadam Hussein and his WMDs. Now, just who dispensed all of this "common sense" to the American public??? The one person who has "no common sense!"
We should all put a latent virus on our laptops and if they want to keep it and open it fine
Shadowgm Hussein @ 90:
"is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? . . . i know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- patrick henry
Look, people, a lot of you are crying about how the 4th Amendment has gone bye-bye, when the fact of the matter is thanks to the War on Drugs, which far too many so-called 'progressives' were willing to embrace, the 4th was shot in the gut and left for dead on the street, right in front of you.
No knock warrants, forcible police home invasions, civil forfeiture...all abrogations of the 4th, all anathema to a supposedly 'free people', and all have become accepted as 'normal' by the American people. All in the name of saving the sainted 'Chil-drunnnn!' from drugs. Which in turn have acclimated Americans to further abrogations of our rights. Leading to such abominations like the horribly mis-named 'PATRIOT Act'.
And hardly a moue of protest from supposed 'progressives'...who should have known better, because the 'War on Drugs' was Tricky Dick's 'cuckoo's egg' method of getting back at the hated DFH's. Remember Tricky? He of the 'Southern Strategy'?
This is nothing new; it's just the latest perversion of our rights courtesy of the Rethuglicans. Unfortunately, they were aided and abetted by a bunch of milquetoasty Dems who wanted to look and sound just as tough as their opponents.
If progressives complain of holes in their feet, it's because of their taking the guns from the Reptiles and shooting themselves in the foot with it, courtesy of the DrugWar. Enough of that, already!
nemo @ 94:
I guess I am failing to see how no knock warrants and civil forfeiture (after conviction) equate with no warrant and civil forfeiture with no conviction.
The government is acting heavy handedly and stupidly but the Fourth Amendment has NEVER been held to apply to border searches or searches at airports. The government has always been free to search anything and everything at a border crossing or an airport (which the Supreme Court decades ago held was the equivalent of a border crossing) without any showing of cause or without any specific suspicion. Simply not a Fourth Amendment violation (but oppressive nonetheless if they are seizing laptops)
Thank god for Russ. Too bad we don't have 30 or 40 more of him....
96 richard
I tend to agree.
I ain't a lawyer
Or even play one on TV
And I don't own a white suite
Or black bolo tie.
But it seems airports are like car searches, long held to be legal
Primarily because they can be moved
Unlike fixed places like a house or office.
And airports don't seem to qualify for expected sense of privacy
Except perhaps in the Juans.
White suit
Bu I try to be a good humor man about such typos.
The airports can't move, but the passengers can.
I'll give up now
(For now.)
Fanon @ 95:
Forfeiture in drug cases only required reasonable suspicion. No evidence or conviction is needed. Simply a drug dealer ratting out a home owner to cut a deal is enough.
richard @ 96:
I'm nowhere near expert in such things, but wouldn't the Exclusionary Rule apply? Essentially, you're being asked to hand over evidence against yourself without just cause or suspicion.
Brendan @ 102:
That's based on Constitutional Law. Constitutional Law does not apply now.
Mike Taylor @ 79:
I have a suspicion that some of the data that gets seized gets used. We know that the fascists in charge have their corporate buddies and cronies. Don't you think that it would be in their best interest if they could just steal information off of our laptops?
What better con than claiming it's the 'Patriot act'?
Don't put it past them.
Left&Left @ 71:
What crap. Running against a geriatric repeat of Bus, the Democratic nominee should be winning this thing by 50 points.
If he was the right guy he wouldn't have to play and wouldn't have had to lie to his base to get the nod.
Let him "play the game" on someone else's time...someone else's dime...someone else's back.
F*ck him and the "hope" he rode in on.
Weaseldog @ 103:
Sigh... Only the law of the jungle applies now, I suppose.
By trade, I'm a computer security consultant. Here are simple steps that everyone should take to protect their data from gov't spying. They can still get in using 'national security' level techniques. But if everyone does this, they will be unable to keep up at airports.
1. Encrypt your data: (make sure you don't forget your password or you'll be locked out too!)
- If you have Vista Ultimate or Enterprise, turn on BitLocker to encrypt the entire hard drive.
- If you have other Vista/XP, turn on Encrypting File System (EFS) by right-clicking on your "My Docs" folder (or whatever) and choose Properties, Advanced, Encrypt
- If you use a USB thumbdrive, EFS works there too in the newer operating systems
- If you use a Mac, sorry, you're on your own
2. Go in the BIOS and turn on a startup password. In some systems, this also encrypts the drive table. When the computer boots, press the key associated with "setup". It's usually DEL, F10, F2 or similar). Don't change anything you don't understand. Do set a 'startup password'. (Again, don't forget it or your SOL)
3. Head over to the Electronic Frontier Foundation at www.eff.org and help them fight for privacy and free speech in the digital world.
It's time to start carrying all your data on hidden Flash RAM devices. Let the bastards take the bare laptop just as long as they don't steal your hidden data.
D.C. @ 107:
PGP exists for the Mac; I'm sure there are other disk encryption programs available as well ... or you could invest in an Ironkey USB drive - get the password wrong, and it locks itself down.
And I agree - please support the EFF. They were instrumental in bringing the whole "NSA Room" story to light.
Left&Left @ 71:
aside from my aversion to trampling on the constitution and thwarting the rule of law, i am troubled by obama's fisa stance because it assumes that he will win the presidency . . . do you really want to risk mcfascist administering this bill?
pissed off patricia @ 5:
Here's one more reason for unlawful "lawful" computer seizures: corporate espionage.
A select few big US corporations are friends of the misadministration. It's not inconceivable that unpatented ideas or business information gets passed on to friends of the neo-convicts who then steal them for their own use and profit.
If anyone thinks that's paranoia, think about what corporations and marketers already do with tax and census information.
.
Dear Senator Brown
backshirt, or is it Bareback,If Americans all had ID numbers tattooed on their foreheads, then we could have prevented 9/11.
NO?
.
Chopvac @ 108:
When they outlaw Flash RAM, only outlaws will have Flash RAM.
D.C. @ 107:
Makes me want to be rich so I can bypass all the low paid TSA guys in my private plane and go my merry way. Wonder what Scalia, Scalito, et. al. would decide on the Fourth Amendment right to "bear laptops"?
Fanon @ 85:
So sorry to hear your story - and I thought mine was bad.
When we were finally through, the husband asked politely if there was anything we could do next time to speed things up so those behind us would not have to wait. The answer from the TSA dude was "Drive".
Obama's stance bothers me because you don't correct a see-saw by standing in the middle.
Grow a spine. It's amazing that we can sit here and continually complain, and the Democratic leadership continues to play clueless (or value their corporate donations more than their constituents).
The Terrorists have won
Here's what I recommend on Mac for keeping your personal shit personal.
1 - Open Disk Utility in /Applications/Utility/
2 - Create a new disk image with the "New Image" button.
3 - Name the file something like "Julie's Wedding" or something else utterly boring and suburban.
3 - Set the "Volume Name" as you like.
4 - Set your "Volume Size" to 4.7GB so if you fill it up, you can burn the encrypted image file onto a DVD-R and know it will fit.
5 - Set your "Volume Format" to Mac OS Extended. NOT Extended (Journaled), or Case-Sensitive, or anything fancy like that. You don't need it for this. Just Mac OS Extended.
6 - "Encryption" - Select the highest level your version of OS X will allow. On Leopard this would be 256-bit AES encryption.
7 - Set "Partitions" to CD/DVD
8 - Change the "Image Format" to "sparse disk image".
9 - Click "Create." Give it a moment, it will pop up asking you for a password. Think of something long and good with numbers, mixed cases, and misspelled words, and for God's sake DON'T SAVE THE PASSWORD TO YOUR DAMN KEYCHAIN, and that's selected by default so UNCHECK THAT SHIT. That defeats the purpose. If you forget it, you're just plain fucked. That's the price you pay for security.
10 - Give it a couple more moments. You now ought to have an encrypted disk image mounted as a hard drive on your desktop. Copy whatever is none of The Man's business onto it.
11 - Drag the original files from your computer to the trash and SECURE EMPTY THE TRASH. Not regular "empty". SECURE "write over it with random data before erasing" EMPTY.
12 - When you're done copying and deleting stuff, eject the disk image as if it were a CD or USB drive. Always SECURE EMPTY the trash before doing so, just in case.
13 - Now you should take the Disk Image File that you have created (in my example, "Julie's Wedding.sparseimage" is the filename, and rename it in the finder to something boring and harmless-looking, like Julie's Wedding.mpg or Steve's Graduation DVD.mp4. It'll warn you that changing the extension will force the file to open in a different application. This is precisely what we want it to say and do. You now have what appears to be some sort of corrupted video file on your computer.
14 - Under Appearance in System Preferences, set everything under "Recent Items" to "NONE". After that's done go to your Apple Menu and under "Recent Items" select Clear Menu.
15 - Clear your Web Cache!!! This varies from program to program but is usually pretty obvious.
14 - Don't put EVERYTHING on the image. Make sure the computer looks "lived in", in other worse, not suspiciously lacking in documents. Put a few working MP3s and Word documents on there, so it looks like you're not hiding anything.
15 - When you've safely arrived where you're going, rename the Disk Image File you've created back to it's original name. Double-click to open, and then enter your password, making sure NOT TO SAVE IT TO THE KEYCHAIN in the process.
I bet this shit would come to a quck end if some oil exec had his/her laptop snatched, but I don't know if any of those mf's fly commericial airlines.
lucid fiction @ 55:
I think the third amendment is clear...so far, anyway.
Chopvac @ 111:
Yup. This is what I just said on 103. Remember, the people in the current administrations are ALREADY murders and thieves.
If you think they won't steal from you, you're kidding yourself.
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 112:
I'm sure they'll try something like that.
Christian fascism at its best. This is the Nazi terrorism and treason that our parents and grandparents fought World War 2 to put a stop to. Now thanks to Republinazi and Democrat Christian fascists, we have a virtual mirror of Nazi Germany and the old Soviet Union.
Isn't religion lovely?
Gretchen @ 116:
So glad my husband wasn't with me or they would have had to call the police!! :) I was with co-workers who were just dumbfounded.
Totalitarianism...thy name is America.
Brendan @ 102:
No. The Exclusionary Rule only applies if there is a Fourth Amendment violation. You're confusing the Exclusionary Rule with the Fifth Amendment privilege against self incrimination (which only applies to testimony, not to handing over evidence). If you are stopped at the border, the authorities can tear apart your car without any suspicion whatsoever. If they find contraband, you're screwed. This has been fundamental American law (and the law of almost every other country in the world) for hundreds of years
j swift @ 120:
I think chances of them flying commercial are slim to none. Unless they're in first class.
Of course it's almost a certainty that had Moussaoui's laptop been confiscated and info re 9/11 pre 9/11 been noticed and relayed to higher-ups in the FBI or the CIA or the White House, it would have been ignored, just as the August 2001 briefing was ignored. After all, FBI people were warned about Moussaoui and ignored the warning.
God help travelers if they ever catch a "terrorist" with a note up his ass . . . .
On the other hand, it would create a huge rush of fired Republican "Staffers" (??? so to speak) flocking to the DHLS to apply to be "screeners" . . .
Lynn Lightfoot @ 129:
After writing the preceding I went to Wikipedia to check up on what happened with Moussaoui and the Minnesota FBI people. Turns out the Minnesota agents begged Washington for warrants to search M's rooms and to confiscate his laptop and were turned down. So . . . what I wrote above is misleading.
Ahh what a bunch of horsehit! "Kept information on his laptop that if discovered might have prevented the sept. 11 terror attack" FUCK YOU Brownback! THIS administration had actionable intelligence referring to possible terrorist attacks pertaining specifically to the 9/11 incident months before that attack that they ignored dammit!!!! As far as I'm concerned these sonsofbitches wanted these attacks whether they were a part of its orchestration or not!! Who the hell do you think you are bullshitting with that asinine comment asshole!!!!
I'm fucking sick of this lying, fearmongering, constitution shredding propaganda. This administration and the republic party ain't nothing but a pack of WTO globalist, fascist wannabes and criminally greed driven ego maniacs who want nothing better than to destroy everything that made this nation what it was and to rebuild the wreckage into some kind of totalitarian corporitocracy with a sick religious fanatic overlay to guilt trip anyone who might otherwise say wait a minute into quiet aquiescence and subsurviance out of fear of some dieties and the all important stock markets retribution.... Fuck you and your obsficating lies Sam Brownback!!!! JD
Your information belongs to the homeland.
Sieg Heil.
marko @ 7:
Let me know when you want to organize a __________ and I am right with you!
And now the sieze your laptop.
Folks, the reality is there are fascists in your government.
They have been for a long time. They supported the Nazis in the 30's, they stoked up anti-communist fear in the 50's. They cooked up the Bay of Pigs. They murdered the Kennedy's and MLK. They commited the crime that was the Vietnam war.
They supported numerous brutal dictators around the world for years: Suharto, Pinochet, The Shah of Iran, Samosa, Batista, to name a few. They have conned you into invading Iraq.
And there agenda has been and always will be, to establish a neo-fascist state in this country. They want the economic power of this country under their control, to serve their needs.
Our constitution and middle-class have kept them from realizing that dream for decades. They have poured on their treasonous and subversive propaganda that whole time, but for one reason or another, they have not totally succeeded.
While bribery is one of their best tools, FEAR is their most effective weapon. They have always been denied the ultimate tool to control us, the one thing that will allow them to achieve their aims and realize their frightening dream:
An attack by external enemies on our own soil.
9/11 gave them that.
They are succeeding in bringing about the state they want. They want an empire and they won't stop starting wars, seizing laptops, spying on all of us, or destroying our political system and freedoms until they have it.
My friends, we must unite to defeat them. We can no longer afford to be silent while our traditional politicians (Dems and moderate Repubs) cower in fear.
We must fight back. We must make these traitors understand that we are willing to wage war if necessary, to arrest and imprison or execute them, to wipe them out, to regain our republic.
Our children deserve better.
paranoia @ 134:
Exactly my true patriot friend. See #135.
This just alerts terrorists to download all their info onto removable flashdrives & tuck them inside their suitcases. The govt. has the laptop but you still have all your data.
Obviously, this means that honest people should also backup all their info onto removable drives so they aren't totally inconvenienced when Big Brother swipes their property.
More on protecting your pc here
Adam Franklin @ 86:
There are some idiots that work for TSA. I was relocating from Hawaii a few years back and had gone through screening with my parrot in a carry-on but got turned back because of a pair of moustache trim scissors (they hand inspected my bird and his container.)
When I went through again an asshole supervisor wanted to put my bird through the x-ray machine. I told her to get in first and if it was safe I'd put my bird through which she refused to do. Bottom line I took him out and almost lost him because he had full wings. People around me were commenting what an asshole she was. All I got was a dirty look from her but at least I caught my flight.
terrorist, especialy the 911 on breath oxygen!!! i advise strongly to regulate the use of oxygen or even restrict it!! republicans should show there patriotism by breathing just every 3 min. ( neocons should do every 5 min. We liberals will follow i promise......
btw stop flying, airlines go bankrupt, the TSA gits are out of a job!!! give it back to them!!
Mike @ 141:
Well that is happening anyhow with the price of fuel.
yakfitguy @ 135:
Duh! I've been sayin' this here for 2 years and agree with you.
I do take exception to that part in the middle about all they needed to achieve thier nightmare was: "an attack by external enimies on our own soil - 9/11...."
Applying logic to your observance clearly demonstrates that these coniving, sociopathic, greedy fascists would not have left someting like that to chance. Studying videos, photos, eyewitness accounts, and all other info available about 9/11 makes it clear that they were not willing to wait for their "New Pearl Harbor" in order to complete their wet dream.
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