Frist!

Go Germany. Deutchland shiesed ein tor!

anyone with a brain

would never vote for mccain

Ah, to think I could have been watching this with friends in Munich. Damn dollar.

singe @ 3:

anyone with a brain

would never vote for mccain

this comment is Off topic, too Site Monitor. please delete it. Thank you.

Where's the site monitor . . . ? Only anti-McCain comments are on-topic? Isn't that racism, too?

I'd love to see Spain crush Germany.

Mainly because Germany's brand of football/soccer is disgraceful for those who expect sports to be entertaining and fair. Usually in sports, a good winning strategy and method of outscoring the opposition is by trying to outplay them. However, statistically Germany gets their ass handed to them in every game, but they wind up scoring more goals just the same. They can be out-shot 23 to 4 and still blow out the other team 4-0. I've frankly never understood it. Germany is the Quantum theory of football. It doesn't make sense but it works every time.

ESPN is just the worst in soccer. We have to endure them for the Champions League cames. Luckily for us in Canada for Euro 2008 we get the British commentators who give us the game and don't try to fill every second with the sound of their own voice.

Racism is alive and well in Florida. Vandals in Orlando spray-paint cars with anti-Obama messages.

immigrant @ 14:

#11 - its like that old saying, "Soccer is a simple game. 22 men chase the ball for 90 minutes and in the end Germany wins"

I'm SOOOO stealing that one...My Lila will love it!

More appropriately to the World Cup -- "...in the end Brazil wins."

But for the purpose of the Euro Cup, I suppose Germany is correct.

Germans against racism.

And now the world community is trying to get Germany to expand their troop presence in places like Afghanistan.

Now I know how the Brits felt when upon surrendering after the Revolutionary War, a military band was playing The World Upside-down.

Don't feel lonely SlowBurn you've got Bob for company. Not being snarky here site monitor but what is the topic of this thread? Soccer or perhaps the content on the banner?

Filipe Brás Almeida @ 11:

I'd love to see Spain crush Germany.

Mainly because Germany's brand of football/soccer is disgraceful for those who expect sports to be entertaining and fair. Usually in sports, a good winning strategy and method of outscoring the opposition is by trying to outplay them. However, statistically Germany gets their ass handed to them in every game, but they wind up scoring more goals just the same. They can be out-shot 23 to 4 and still blow out the other team 4-0. I've frankly never understood it. Germany is the Quantum theory of football. It doesn't make sense but it works every time.

I'm curious. What are the tactics that enables Germany to take so few shots, yet prevail? And if it works, why don't more teams use it? I understand why it might be boring (a "cloud of dust and 3 yards" game plan versus an diversified aerial attack in American football, for example). But why do you deem it unfair as well?

It's on ABC

# 18 - just switched to ABC. In Canada we have a different feed with different comentator (only 1 person).

I tipped the Germans from the beginning, so Im sticking by them now, even though Im English :)

1-0 espana!!

Deutscher Goal-keeper sucks

Go Spain. What a goal that (first one) was. Schweinsteiger is a punk, loved seeing him get a red card a week or two ago.

SlowBurn @ 8:

Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 6:

Unite against racism! Outlaw Republicans today!

site monitor: this off-topic comment needs to be deleted

The site monitor must be busy or resting so I'll answer for him or her:

F*&k off douchbag.

ps do you like?

I have a brain,
I can't vote McCain

re the ref, one of the fellas said if we know or care about his name affter the game, he was too prominent...

Great game, I'd love to be in Spain tonight.

Awesome goal! Great match!

Looking back on the tourney, we should have seen this coming, Spain dominated everyone. I think the win over Italy helped Spain realize that they have what it takes to take down the big dog.

Congrats to the Spanish team and all Spanish fans!

Here’s an example—– “name of player.…has just disgraced his country.”

Not that it isn't great that Gray and others provide decent commentary, but this particular quote is pretty simple-minded. "Disgraced his country" is hardly sports commentary. More like Republican commentary.

Helluva game...helluva tournament...had everything...

folks who find watching that ball movement and speed, and daring boring?

dongeddit

Good tourney, nice to see Spain shake off the jinx...but the Final of any tournament in any sport is nowhere near as fun as the semis.

Support your local MLS team!

Torres is playing for Liverpool FC.

2 years: World Cup 2010, in South Africa.

However, every year there is the "Champions League" which pits the best club teams in Europe against each other. That is quite fun to watch if you enjoyed Euro 2008. They run through the entire year and the finals are held around March.

Sorry for the double-post. My post went up as someone else's quote. For the record, I'm saying this, in response to Long Tooth @ 25:

I admit I was being a bit colourful. But German soccer is essentially a dazzling display of prefect geometry and little else. It’s the Pro-Football equivalent of winning a game in the 4th quarter every time, out of sheer stamina and cynical ojbectivity, while being out-yarded by a ratio of 5 to 1. In pro-football it’s easier to convert quality football into points, thanks to field goals and such. Soccer is easily the sport where it is most difficult to convert quality gameplay into an objective advantage.

@58) Are you kidding ? You mean there is no self segregated neighborhood in the US and Canada (well, maybe not in Canada, I don't know) ?

FYI, I don't know how it goes in UK or Germany, but France doesn't have "self segregated neighborhoods where different ethnic groups just stick to themselves". France have segregated neighborhoods where poor French, immigrants and sons of immigrants from various origins are more or less forced to stick to themselves.

Filipe Brás Almeida @ 57:

Sorry for the double-post. My post went up as someone else's quote. For the record, I'm saying this, in response to Long Tooth @ 25:

I admit I was being a bit colourful. But German soccer is essentially a dazzling display of prefect geometry and little else. It’s the Pro-Football equivalent of winning a game in the 4th quarter every time, out of sheer stamina and cynical ojbectivity, while being out-yarded by a ratio of 5 to 1. In pro-football it’s easier to convert quality football into points, thanks to field goals and such. Soccer is easily the sport where it is most difficult to convert quality gameplay into an objective advantage.

Obliged for the explanation. It's particularly interesting to me, in that Germany has a well deserved reputation for its (meticulous discipline?). No, that's not quite right. But you might know what I mean. Which leads me to wonder: in tournaments such as this, are national characteristics somehow incorporated into their teams style of play? The question is inelegantly phrased, perhaps unintelligible. But "my" sports are basically home grown: baseball and American football. I've never had the opportunity to compare any sport in an international context. (The Japanese play baseball with aluminium bats, and apologize to umpires- they don't count).

"(The Japanese play baseball with aluminium bats, and apologize to umpires- they don’t count)".

I'd have better said, "Kowtow to umpires", or "treat umpires in a deferential manner".

I'm curious. What are the tactics that enables Germany to take so few shots, yet prevail? And if it works, why don't more teams use it? I understand why it might be boring (a "cloud of dust and 3 yards" game plan versus an diversified aerial attack in American football, for example). But why do you deem it unfair as well?

It works for the same reason that USC can run student body left and student body right all day long even when their opponent knows it's coming - because USC and Germany have the personnel to execute it most of the time. More often than not, three yards and a cloud of dust works for Der Mannschaft.

It's the Soccer equivalent of Bill Parcels smash-mouth football. It gets them to the finals or the semis most of the time. Unfortunately, they haven't won the Euros since '96 or the World Cup since '90 when they were still West Germany.

Jurgen Klinnsmann tried to bring more creativity to their game. Low has tried. Like the Italians, defense first and scoring off counter attacks is the system they're taught from day one. It's how they grow up playing and when they're in trouble, it's what they revert to. Unfortunately.

Hey, I've got German Heritage but Spain was the better team. They generated the most chances and deserved to win. They were just far too quick for the German full backs, they burned them on the flanks, turned them like cones and that opened up the middle for them when the midfielders came to help seal off the flanks.

If the safety has to come over to help the corner, the guy in the middle is going to be one on one with a full head of steam and sooner or later, the defense is going to get burned. It's the same deal.

I was hoping that giving up a goal in the first half would force Germany to open it up, and force Spain to foul Klose, Ballack and Schweinsteiger because of their size advantage and they could use their size to head some in off free kicks and corners but the Spanish defenders just marked those guys right out of the game. Frankly, Germany was lucky it wasn't 3-0.

Coop @ 65:

I'm curious. What are the tactics that enables Germany to take so few shots, yet prevail? And if it works, why don't more teams use it? I understand why it might be boring (a "cloud of dust and 3 yards" game plan versus an diversified aerial attack in American football, for example). But why do you deem it unfair as well?

It works for the same reason that USC can run student body left and student body right all day long even when their opponent knows it's coming - because USC and Germany have the personnel to execute it most of the time. More often than not, three yards and a cloud of dust works for Der Mannschaft.

It's the Soccer equivalent of Bill Parcels smash-mouth football. It gets them to the finals or the semis most of the time. Unfortunately, they haven't won the Euros since '96 or the World Cup since '90 when they were still West Germany.

Jurgen Klinnsmann tried to bring more creativity to their game. Low has tried. Like the Italians, defense first and scoring off counter attacks is the system they're taught from day one. It's how they grow up playing and when they're in trouble, it's what they revert to. Unfortunately.

Hey, I've got German Heritage but Spain was the better team. They generated the most chances and deserved to win. They were just far too quick for the German full backs, they burned them on the flanks, turned them like cones and that opened up the middle for them when the midfielders came to help seal off the flanks.

If the safety has to come over to help the corner, the guy in the middle is going to be one on one with a full head of steam and sooner or later, the defense is going to get burned. It's the same deal.

I was hoping that giving up a goal in the first half would force Germany to open it up, and force Spain to foul Klose, Ballack and Schweinsteiger because of their size advantage and they could use their size to head some in off free kicks and corners but the Spanish defenders just marked those guys right out of the game. Frankly, Germany was lucky it wasn't 3-0.

Thanks for the good response, Coop. I didn't play soccer as a kid, and will never fully appreciate it, but that explanation was phrased in a context that I grasped. It even sort of addressed my second question: do teams in international competition incorporate national characteristics in their style of play?

Yeah, I wished I could have watched it. I mean, it was on ABC, and it was being broadcast in my market, and I have a real nice high-def television. Unfortunately, I also have a local affiliate that feels it necessary to crawl a weather alert across the bottom of the screen. For the entire game. Obscuring the ball half the time. Seriously.
And the weather alert in the second half was for a weather alert in another state. So, thanks, WTAE. You jagoffs.

Thanks, it's nice to know I still have the occasional lucid moment now and again.

I didn't play it as a kid, either. They introduced it when I was a freshman in HS, I has shin splints so bad it hurt to put pants on and nobody had a clue about shin guards or anything. I never could juggle the ball worth a damn but when I saw somebody who could, I was hooked. It's the same deal with hockey.

As for National styles and systems, the big boys definitely have their own national identity. Brazil is the most fluid and beautiful to watch while the Germans are relentlessly physical and efficient. When your hear the announcers talk about "attractive football" they're just talking about an exciting style to watch with lots of individual and collective skill. Unfortunately, like basketball, football and hockey here, coaches are paid to win so they employ dull, methodical defense-oriented tactics and play not to lose instead of playing to win. As a rule, nobody can run and gun with Brazil so they take they slow it down, let the air out of the ball and try to keep the Brazil's of the world from running and force them to do what they don't want to do. At least they try. Like Andy Gray said just after Spain scored. It was the best thing that could happen because it forced Germany to attack and open it up. If Germany had scored first, they probably would have tried to win it 1-0. Spain's so skilled offensively that their defense is overlooked because they're small. Clearly, today proved that they're better than they get credit for.

Hopefully, Germany will add some creativity to their game and attack more in the future. Usually, they just tell you what they're going to do and dare you to stop them. They keep getting to the semis and the finals with it but they haven't won anything lately. What would you rather watch, the NBA of the '80s where Magic and the Lakers and Bird and the Celts went at it hammer and tongs or the thug ball the Pistons introduced 20 years ago that turned games into 82-79 tractor-pulls?

Derek Rae and Tommy Smyth are based here in the States. Andy Gray was here in the States for the Month but he's usually in the UK and on-site.

Granted, Gray's brogue makes it a bit like the cast of Trainspotting is doing the game but he's fookin' brilliant! He was a top shelf striker in his own right back in the 70s and 80s, he doesn't sugarcoat it, he reads the game and conveys what's going on, who's playing well, who's lost in the ozone, what team's are trying to do and how and what the other team is trying to do to stop them without insulting your intelligence and his natural enthusiasm for the game is obvious and contagious.

I've heard him on Fox Soccer Channel when he's doing Premiership games in the UK for Sky TV where he's talking to a knowledgeable, sophisticated football audience and he's great. He didn't have to dumb it down here. He gets his point across and his candor is refreshing. Hopefully, ESPN will have him do Champions League Games and such in the future when possible. He's a real find for the US audience.

Andy K Jong Il @ 68:

Am I sensing sour grapes from the Italy-Spain game? Because the stalling tactics employed by many of the Azzuri that day were disgraceful. They were diving, and when the ref failed to call fouls, they would fake injuries to stop the flow of the Spanish play(forcing the ref to call for the Spanish to kick the ball out so the Italians could get unnecessary medical treatment). A good ref would have red-carded one of those Italians early on to halt that practice. That game should have ended Italy 0-2 Spain!

Anyway...Viva Espana! They played beautiful, energetic football throughout the tournament and deserved this championship.

Italy has always played anti-soccer. And the rumor always had it that Italy plays with 12 players.

Spain deserved this title, they always had some of the better teams, but the worst luck with the refs. Anyone who watched the Korea-Spain game knows what I am talking about.

It was about damn time that the better team won. Germany and Italy have a history of making it to finals through the cracks only to provide the worst most boring finals. Hopefully their days are counted and we can enjoy soccer again.

Long Tooth @ 61:

The question is inelegantly phrased, perhaps unintelligible. But "my" sports are basically home grown: baseball and American football. I've never had the opportunity to compare any sport in an international context. (The Japanese play baseball with aluminium bats, and apologize to umpires- they don't count).

Obviously, you have missed all those central American baseball players :-P

I remember in the 96 Olympics when the American baseball team was getting their arse handed to them by the Cubans, NBC cut in the middle of the game and showed a "human interest" story about the US women gymnastics coach... so I can understand a lot of people here are unaware that some of the bastions of American sports (baseball and basketball especially) the US is facing some intense challenges...

FNORD @ 77:

Long Tooth @ 61:

The question is inelegantly phrased, perhaps unintelligible. But "my" sports are basically home grown: baseball and American football. I've never had the opportunity to compare any sport in an international context. (The Japanese play baseball with aluminium bats, and apologize to umpires- they don't count).

Obviously, you have missed all those central American baseball players :-P

I remember in the 96 Olympics when the American baseball team was getting their arse handed to them by the Cubans, NBC cut in the middle of the game and showed a "human interest" story about the US women gymnastics coach... so I can understand a lot of people here are unaware that some of the bastions of American sports (baseball and basketball especially) the US is facing some intense challenges...

My favorite Latin America baseball story was told by an American player whose name I unfortunately forget. Pre-Castro Cuba, and U.S. major leaguers had squared off against the Island's All Stars. The aforementioned player came to bat, and homered. In his next AB, he got drilled (by the same pitcher) in his helmetless head. When he came to, he looked up at a half dozen faces looking down, one of whom was the pitcher who proceeded to say, "I no think you hit that one so good".

Martunez @ 80:

Long Tooth @ 79:

FNORD @ 77:

Long Tooth @ 61:

Obviously, you have missed all those central American baseball players :-P

I remember in the 96 Olympics when the American baseball team was getting their arse handed to them by the Cubans, NBC cut in the middle of the game and showed a "human interest" story about the US women gymnastics coach... so I can understand a lot of people here are unaware that some of the bastions of American sports (baseball and basketball especially) the US is facing some intense challenges...

My favorite Latin America baseball story was told by an American player whose name I unfortunately forget. Pre-Castro Cuba, and U.S. major leaguers had squared off against the Island's All Stars. The aforementioned player came to bat, and homered. In his next AB, he got drilled (by the same pitcher) in his helmetless head. When he came to, he looked up at a half dozen faces looking down, one of whom was the pitcher who proceeded to say, "I no think you hit that one so good".

What do you like about that story? The violence, the childishness, or the bigotry?

My apologies. I totally misread that.

Gray divides fans when he's doing Premier League matches, but I thought he did a decent job on his summer holiday. ESPN in general did well, compared to 2006: no condescension, no attempt to dumb it down (which is increasingly unnecessary) and a small but valuable bit of tactical analysis, which remains the weak spot of American coverage.

(I'm sure he had a running bet that involved a 'soccer box': paying out whenever he said 'soccer' instead of 'football'.)

Had it not been for ESPN bringing him in as a ringer, his contract with Sky meant he'd have likely been twiddling his thumbs during Euro 2008 -- the British rights are divided up between BBC and ITV. Good call.

And a cracking, cracking tournament. Spain overcame their reputation as bottlers, and the Germans overcame theirs as lucky winners. You had the short-lived brilliance of the Dutch, the never-say-die Turks, and the Russians showing a tenacity that will bring a fair few players further west.

spain are just kids, look at the picture :-)

In my lifetime I want to see an Italy-England game. Since I am curious to see what is better: all defense with little offense (Italy) or all offense with little defense (England)

Italy has not played England in major competitions in the past decade, but they did so several times in the past 30 years or so (home team in bold):
11/17/76 Italy 2 - 0 England WC qual
11/16/77 Italy 0 - 2 England WC qual
6/15/80 Italy 1 - 0 England Euro
7/7/90 Italy 2 - 1 England WC
2/12/97 Italy 1- 0 England WC qual
10/11/97 Italy 0 - 0 England WC qual

Italy has the advantage, but they played at home more often.

Also, let me just reiterate that 99% of all this "attacking" vs "defending" football talk seems to be based on pure stereotypes and no obvious understanding of the game. Suffice to say, Italy had more total shots, shots on goal, corner kicks granted and attacking actions per game than Germany throughout the tournament. Whodda thunk, uh?

Really, Germany played one pretty good game against Poland, and maybe 10'-20' of decent football for each of the other games (including yesterday's), and plainly got to the final because a) they were on the much easier side of the tournament chart, and b) Portugal committed ritual suicide with them (leaving aside the gift goal Ballack got from the ref). Overall, they played much more conservative football than most other teams in the tournament (Sweden aside, which played time-honored catenaccio), relying of the physical power and height advantage of their players rather than on any technical or tactical skill.

That said, Toni and Italy's forwards in general blew camels this year, the midfield was good only at times and never gelled because of all the changes Donadoni kept making, the defense was often shaky without Cannavaro, the team looked old, and they deservedly lost. Hopefully Lippi will bring in some young players, but rebuilding will definitely take at least 4 years.

Congrats to Spain, arguably the most dominant and most deserving Euro winner I can remember (and I can remember them since 1980).

Anyone else watch the final opening festivities and think "Giant Gumdrop Christmas Trees for Everyone!"

Andy Gray should be a familiar voice to those who've played the EA Sports FIFA games.

Congrats to Spain. They dominated more play, and didn't shell up when they got their goal.