John McCain: I'm Shocked--Shocked!--That There's Campaigning Going On Here!
By Nicole Belle Monday Jun 30, 2008 7:00pm
Poor John McCain...he doesn't like it when people start pointing out that maybe...just maybe...his vaunted experience of being a Vietnam vet and POW doesn't exactly hold up as a prerequisite for holding the office of the President of the United States. And now he's accusing Jim Webb of coordinating with the Obama campaign too.
On MSNBC last night, Webb told McCain that he should "calm down" with the use of his military service in the campaign, adding that it was time to "get the politics out of the military."
Now the McCain campaign is responding to Webb, arguing that Webb's comments prove that Obama "can't control his surrogate operation." McCain spokesperson Brian Rogers sends us this:
If you didn't think this was a coordinated attack on John McCain's credentials before, it's clear now that it is. Barack Obama's surrogates are telling the McCain campaign to "calm down" about attacks on his military record? Seriously? Now somehow Wes Clark's attacks are John McCain's fault? It's absurd. If Barack Obama can't control his own surrogate operation, how can he be trusted to run the country?
Luckily for McCain, those smitten members of the media only too happy to carry his water have rushed to his defense:
(T)o understand why the press is reacting with such outrage, you have to understand what they've been saying about McCain for the last decade.
There's a myth out there that the McCain campaign and the media have cooperated to create. It says that John McCain is reluctant to exploit his Vietnam POW story for political advantage, so modest and full of integrity is he. We've seen this repeated again and again, not just by McCain and his supporters but by reporters who ought to know better.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
From the first time he ran for Congress in 1982 up to the present day, McCain has made his POW story the centerpiece of his entire political career. The key moment of that 1982 campaign was when he responded to his opponent's (absolutely true) accusation that McCain was a carpetbagger by saying, "As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi." At every point since, it has been the deft use of this tool that has brought McCain renewed attention or won him a key victory.
The Columbia Journalism Review backs Clark on this one, as has MoveOn. This morning, Obama rejected the analogy that Clark was swiftboating McCain. But for all his bluster and sad sighing over this kind of campaigning, McCain no problem bringing in Bud Day who appeared in two Swiftboat ads that McCain called "dishonest and dishonorable". But hey, at least McCain is still distancing himself from Bush...or is he?
Shocking, I tell you...
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Well, lookie lookie lookie what we have here!
Turns out PUMA (Party Unity My Ass!) was started by a McCain Donator. The media has been all over this group saying it was started by Hillary supporters!
PUMAs are Swiftboats
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/pumas_are_swiftboats_darragh...
This is the republican strategy: they are champing at the bit, waiting for any signs from anybody criticizing Grampa's military record. Drag out those flags, boys.
It's all they've got. Meanwhile...
Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb Iran.
(And don't anybody DARE to suggest that, after 5+ years, Gramp's may have also suffered some pretty hefty mental dysfunction from his ordeal.)
Could it be that McShame has reason for not talking about his military record. It sure ain't modesty. He knows exactly what his record is. With the performance record he has, crashing all those planes and causing all those deaths, I probably wouldn't want to talk about it either. And he knows he is no hero. This myth has gone on long enough. Put your money where your mouth is McShame and tell us what really happened in that prison. Being so mysterious about it only makes us more suspicious. Someone has already pointed out that if not for his father and his grandfather McShame would have been just another prisoner of war without the special treatment. Those other prisoners are more hero than McShame can ever be.
The way it reads to me, Clark et al are merely pointing out that McOlds service is not necessarily much of an indication of executive skill on a level of brigade command or the stuff his father and grandfather Admirals did.
McCain's surrogates have been so respectful and courteous too. snark!
Did McCain distance himself from the "Kerry with a tan" comment?
If McCain can't control his surrogates how can he run the country? Now if we only had a real media........
The fake outrage by the "right" is offensive and tiresome. Yawn.
Janet@Says:
If we had a real media McCain would not even be a candidate, Bush would have never been President and the list, my dear goes on.
The GOP is <a href="http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/gop_senators_top_staffer_b
I can't wait for the debates! Obama will mop the floor with McCain. What's McCain going to do? Have Lieberman whisper in his ear when he screws up?
Add to McCain's qualities: He's a freakin' crybaby. Nngwaah! ngwaah!
oops here
xoites defends Constitution @ 7:
So, the general can support Kerry in 2004 because he came home from nam after a few months and a few scratches - threw his medals over a fence - betrayed his fellow soldiers and hung out with hanoi jane. That took moral courage. But suffering and being tortured for 5 and 1/2 years and refusing to go home early is not. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! The closest thing Obama ever got to military service is Bill Ares!!!!
Go back and listen to the clip.
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1525
Obama didn't just "reject the analogy" in that clip.
He "rejected the analogy" early in the clip .. but then he straight up denied that anything he said was a rebuke of Clark's statements about McCain.
And I'm glad to hear him say that.
Cuz when I saw the clip where Obama purportedly rebuked Clark, there was no reference to Clark and one would have to have twisted Clark's words (or Obama's) to make Obama's words a rebuke of Clark.
But kaboodles of posters here at C&L ran in circles screaming and shouting that "Obama threw Clark under the bus" .. straightup swallowing the Corporate Media's twisted interpretation of events.
Stay on your toes, kids!
Swiftboater at twelve o'clock.
How is that frontal lobotomy working out for you Ziggy?
webb is a stud........that's what i've been wanting to say myself and wes clark started it. mccain's strongest perceived virtue is his past military service. this takes guts because it's an easy spin....the timing is perfect early get it established.....let's see some cracks in the armour
McVomit saw how well the Rev. Wright and the "bitter" BS worked against Obama. So periodically he will try and create some fake shit just to slow the younger guy down so that maybe his old ass can catch up. McTurd simply has nothing except "I was tortured, you owe me America" and fake scandals on Obama.
Ziggy Viet Nam vet @ 13:
McGrampa surrendered to the enemy. How telling.
While watching Keith just now, I took note of the fact that when McCain spoke to the National Sheriff Assoc, the podium had the embleam for the group om it. Now look real close and you will see a fastista, Mussolini's symbol for his new political party, the fascists. With the repug image machine that brought us the cross on the podium, wonder what this means?
McCain In 2003: ‘I Absolutely Don’t Believe’ Military Service Alone Qualifies Somebody For President'
Recently, one of McCain's captors was interviewed in Hanoi. He said that because McCain's father and grandfather were admirals, McCain received special treatment. In fact, he was never tortured. The guy said he and Mccain became friends, and Mccain taught him English. A bit of support for this interesting bit was that McCain was offered an earlier than normal release, which he turned down. So, if McCain wasn't tortured, why did he sign a confession, and why did he participate in a propaganda film? Imagine if this is all true and surfaces...
News at 11 (but not on Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC or CNN).
the more the public knows about mccain's military service the better for obama.
jeff @ 19:
Means somebody in Washington thinks the Roman Empire was a good idea. It was, for the Roman patricians. It was an epic fail for everybody else. And...let's not forget that the Roman Empire may have lasted until 1453, but it was hardly stable or self-sustaining, what with its tendency to lose big battles against unwashed nomadic peoples.
Is that what the GOP wants? A new Rome? In that case, who will be the Praetorian Guard and what sort of emperor will be on the throne?
Ziggy Viet Nam Vet(so give him your change)@13
Let's see....you were a witness in Vietnam to McLiar's "moral courage" as well as being there for Kerry's "cowardice". This isn't 2004 vet....we don't want to hear the bullshit from you liars.
Ed in Socal @ 21:
Americans should question McLame's patriotism not Senator Obama's.
Ziggy, go troll somewhere else.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't want a guy who was broken by torture being my president.
Plus, whoever thinks that getting shot down and tortured makes you a better candidate for president is crazy. We want ACES damnit!
"Surrogate" must be the new republican buzz word. Norm Colman (R MN) also uses it when busted for unethical behaviour in the previous C&L post.
Ziggy Viet Nam vet @ 13:
So, the general can support Kerry in 2004 because he came home from nam after a few months and a few scratches - threw his medals over a fence - betrayed his fellow soldiers and hung out with hanoi jane. That took moral courage. But suffering and being tortured for 5 and 1/2 years and refusing to go home early is not. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!! The closest thing Obama ever got to military service is Bill Ares!!!!
Here we go again...
Kerry NEVER betrayed he fellow soldiers. Read the transcripts. Kerry accused the government policies... aabut you have to have redading and comprehension skills
certain americans will describe mccain only by his military record. if you wait and listen for more details about him and his policies......you won't get much
for some people that's all that sticks......mccains military exper. of 40 yrs. ago doesn't trump obama's lack of military experience.........supposively bush had military experience need i say more.....this is fair game and webb coming out was good
Sorry... let me finish:
You have to have reading and comprehension skills higher than the third grade to understand what Kerry said.
Same with General Clark's (and Web's) comments.
The sad truth for McCain is that WE DO NOT NEED a military president. We need a president who will STOP A WAR... not continue to fight losing battles.
Please DO NOT tell me that we are "winning" in Iraq. See... you need reading and comprehension skills higher than a third grader to understand that the SURGE is a disaster (in costs and strategies...) and that characterization applies to the whole occupation, and GRAB FOR OIL, since the beginning.
General_Rennenkampf @ 23:
Praetorian Guard = BlackWater
A standing force of 120,000 members at multiple bases in the US. First domestic deployment by President Bush was in NOLA during Katrina. The group was first started by KBR, a division of Halliburton, but later was divested and then retained for "security services" overseas.
Years ago as a young man while working in my yard tearing out by the roots some very old bushes. I hit myself in the head with a pick axe, knocking myself flat. I was fortunate that it was the solid oak handle and not the pick which missed my head by inches. It took me several minutes to recover.
We all have unfortunate things happen in our lives. Does that make me qualified to be the head of the National Park Service?
#20:
The smoking gun comes out of the drawer.
jed report; if you are reading this story, you know what to do...
Raaputin @ 32:
Except the Praetorian Guard picked the Emperors in Rome. That actually might create some funny (peculiar) situations. Suppose the regular military wants to pick the emperor instead of Blackwater? And just who would be Emperor of the American Imperium? Nobody in this nation has the brains to be autocrat of 300 million, ruling 200 million was difficult enough for the Soviets.
Ziggy Viet Nam vet @ 13:
When people get locked in dungeons for 5 years they come out CRAZY!!!!!!!!!
If you look over the McCain life trajectory, it is pretty unspectacular beyond the war ordeal. He mainly spends post service time shilling for one thing or another like your typical ladder climber, does an opportunistic marriage move and leverages it to various platforms for more shilling.
He hasn't made much of a name for himself in either administrative things or academic things and is nearly as unspectacular as Bush without the blue blood patrician 'safety net'.
General_Rennenkampf
Your grasp of history, especially military history is impressive. Please Consider this.
or, you could consider it. :)
[FIFY-Sitemonitor]
Wow just wow i can't beleive how disrepectful many of you guys are over mccains military record.
Its one thing to question if his experience automatically qualifies him to be president but half the crap in here already is downright disrespectful. Its this lack of respect for someones military service that gives right wing talking heads ammunition in saying that left leaning people hate the military.
#33
You're right. In McCain's case, he crashed 5 planes and blew up part of the USS Forrestal during some stupid prank. And this was BEFORE being captured by the NVA. Speaking of which, he didn't follow ejection protocol which explains why his shoulders got broken. Not too sure about the POW stuff. Maybe he was beaten, maybe he wasn't.
But, when he got back, he used military resources to engage in affairs with numerous women while still married to his first wife. And then he retired when the brass told him he wouldn't make Admiral. So, there you go; the reasons why he doesn't want his record discussed.
Wesley Clark didn't crash 5 of his own planes, Sen. Webb didn't use public funds to finance his affairs, John Kerry followed proper wartime procedures, and I'm willing to assume other Democratic candidates with military experience didn't blow up their own aircraft carrier.
McCain may be a patriot- I won't challenge him on that. But that doesn't mean that he was not a lousy pilot, lousy commander, and even more lousy senator.
If being a POW is what his campaign is calling mccains credentials for the position of POTUS then they're really running on empty!
Doogie, i have never made a snide remark about McCain's military experience. For all i or you know those who have are right wingers planting false evidence. I oppose McCain on what he wants to do. None of it makes any sense to me. Free speech comes at a price. I am willing to pay it. Are you?
Thank you Site Monitor. :)
If Maccane is a war hero and an honest man why can't we see his Records put up or shut up
But if he has all this military experience, he should know how to deal with a coordinated "attack", instead of whining about it.
xoites defends Constitution @ 38:
I've signed up, using the same screen name.
Great! send me an email. I need it to include you as an Author.
good job getting that G.I. bill passed mcBush.....'thanks WE worked hard on that one it was bipartisan.....you know maverick like'
doogie @ 40:
FYI Respect is earned, not granted...
Karl, that was the most bogus thing this week and as far as i can tell only Keith Olbermann called hi on it.
AgentX @ 41:
Spot on... spot on...
If they want to talk about McCain's military credentials, by all means... let's talk about them.
I am sick of all these republicans born in third base who demand to be treated as if they just hit a triple.
xoites defends Constitution @ 51:
Maybe he was using the royal 'we'?
xoites defends Constitution @ 48:
Already done.
He was using Bush's lie as a prop. Both Bush and McCain fervently opposed it and when the Congress came up with a veto proof bill they both took credit for it.
Why the hell isn't THAT all over the news?
I know General, you are now free to blog. :)
imagine the GOP stating 'how dare you question his military credentials' when they've done the same to so many people, who just happened to be Democrats and even some GOPers. the problem with some GOPers who state how dare you to to others, is that they arrogantly think they're the only ones who are allowed to. well, foolish GOP, you arent and while you're at it Bush is YOUR FAULT and those who voted for him. he's a member of your party, and dont forget, childish GOP, that you REJECTED john McCain in 2000, for the current brat who is the idiot in chief. now you gladly embrace him as he is all you have. you dont deserve in the least to keep the white house. go into the wilderness and figure yourselves out before you get back to the white house. youre run roughshod over the constitution, youve alienated half the electorate while youve cloaked yourselves in faux patriotism, youve blamed others for your mistakes, youve blindly and willingly accepted unitary power grabs by bush/cheney, youve had no oversight on anything, you dont care about anything except 'GOP uber alles'. sorry you failures youre wrong.
xoites defends Constitution @ 51:
he followed bush on the new G.I. bill both against it....now will see if he flips on it if bush signs it........i think that was bad move for mccain then the 'WE'
pretty lame......mccain is looking vulnerable right now...this center move by obama which i hope is temporary is effective right now that is...hey charlie black mouthed off and it cost them
Aren't there some war time pilots who were able to complete many missions successfully without crashing and surrendering to the enemy? By mccains supporters standards wouldn't they be much more qualified to be the next President?
General_Rennenkampf @ 35:
True to a certain extent, but after the Praetorians assassinated Pertinax they actually "auctioned off" the Empire and it was purchased by Didius Julianus... so they go with the highest bidder. They were also dissolved and reformed by members from select legions by Emperors too, so they can be a bit unstable too.
Right now they serve the Administration because they are the highest bidder and our Prez is also "commander of the legions" the thorn of course is the National Guard units, but he keeps underfunding them and depleting their readiness standing. In the recent flooding they had real problems getting functional helicopters airborne.
As to who has the brains to be an autocrat over 300 million and your Soviet reference... Halliburton got $350 million to build internment camps in the US and they have been renting the old Soviet Gulags already... Cheney may or may not have the brains, but he has been busy hasn't he?
That's right - you're in the right place. You idolize Keith Oberman - a narcissistic, greedy egomaniac who was fired from ESPN. He feeds you nothing but lies, and cares absolutely nothing about this country. Listen to Keith!!! YEAH!!! HE IS A REAL PATRIOT!!!
doogie @ 40:, I think you should take a good look at that record and get back to us.
Looks like Ziggy the Evocati has checked in!
Ziggy, chill out! We are Americans here, not the enemy, kay?
Ziggy's back!
Hey, Ziggy! Got anything real to say?
Ziggy Viet Nam vet @ 61:
easy... take it easy now step away from your computer go to your tool box grab a wrench and tighten some of those loose bolts you've got......
#61
It still doesn't stop the fact that McCain stood behind a podium with the symbol of the Facists on it. Whatr would you have said if the National Sheriff Assoc had a hammer and sickle on it, cresent moon, or how about a noose? Image means a lot in our pol system, and that is quite an image for the repug nom to be standing behind.
Did Sparky McWetStart torch the Forrestal?
And what about the facts out here? I have looked at several sources and the new military budget is @$518 billion. Why in the hell do we need to spend that? This doesn't even include the "emergency war spending" for Iraq and Afghanistan. All of this is being hidden from the American people. Do me a favor and tell everyone you speak to this coming weekend the truth--Bushco and McCain are and will bankrupt America with their endless wars. They are giving huge rewards to big oil and the Saudis and the Chinese. The Chinese now own a large portion of America Inc. The Saudis (remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were SAUDIS) have covered up their role and have bought off the courts. Big oil is making huge PROFITS over and above the costs involved in their manipulated prices per barrel. Do you think we might get a president who asks about this stuff? I don't.
"[John] McCain is mentally unstable and vindictive and out of control."
--Arizona Republican state commiteeman Rob Haney
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/john-mccain-defeated-hum_b_...
......and we want this guy near a nuclear trigger?
McCain's jet (A-6 I think) was hit by the missle that misfired on the deck, he got out before the preWW2 bombs on his plane blew up starting the fire. You would think that a guy who almost got torched by penny pinching ( at least on the stuff that matters) pentagon, would be a little harder on the contracts that they dole out.
Since McSenile continuously sites his POW experience as his military experience, obviously for the lack of a better analogy, then what sort of qualifications for being a POW are similar to the qualifications for being the POTUS?? (Please note, just being there is not an acceptable answer.)
I swear I saw Scarborough massaging McTaint's old decrepit feet and Mika (giggling as usual) feeding him grapes on Morning Blow.
One of these day Johnny's going to have to leave the media and bushco bubble and hit the pavement. military hangers and stacked townhalls don't count.
Raaputin @ 60:
Except the difficulties involved in being a despot of 200 million in a nation equivalent to the US in size and diversity bankrupted both the Tsars and the Soviets. Why would a despotism over 300 million Yankeestanis be much different?
Comrade Rou@70 Says:
Well, that's pretty scary.
If flying a jet in combat is what it takes to be Prez, lets go get us an ace instead of the guy who lost five planes. So what is Randell "Duke" Cuningham doing these days?
I'd like to know how much foreign policy experience a guy can get from the inside of a prison cell?
doogie @ 40:
The reich-wing doesn't respect the military. They hide behind the military and use them as pawns.
Joseph Neri @ 77:
He learned how to surrender.
Look, there's one reason, and one reason only, that the McCain Patrol gets their panties in a bunch about these things. They throw a hissy because Obama then spends the next day saying over and over again what a great hero John W. McCain is. They don't even have to say what an honorable man McCain is anymore. They can get the Democratic candidate to do it for them. Every day. Clark makes a valid [and respectful] point about the man as a possible president. Webb makes a valid [and reasonable] point about politicizing the military. McCain throws a hissy. What happens?
The news cycle the next night closes with clips of Obama and Fill-In-The-Blank praising McCain.
Where's the downside to throwing the hissy fit?
Obama and Co. need to grow a pair and start dismissing this bullshit. Just dismiss it out of hand. We can't say he's 'confused' because that's ageist? Okay. How about...
"Oh, he's just being paranoid."
Then move on.
Q: "But what about the 'concerted effort' to denigrate McCain's honorable-bordering-on-christlike war record?"
A: "He's being paranoid."
Q: "McCain demands Obama cut General Clark loose. What say you?"
A: [With a dismissive wave of the hand.] "He's paranoid."
Remember in the final season of West Wing, during the presidential contest between the Jimmy Smits character and the Alan Alda character? The Democrats didn't want to overtly attack Alan Alda's character for his age. So what did they do? They commented about how spry he looked. It was a compliment...but one only given to the elderly. Brilliant.
Come up with something like that. Or else hammer home that he's a paranoid crazy fool and sooner or later he's gonna show just that. Just please stop acting like such weanies. Honestly.
Methinks he doth protest too much. I know most of this Manchurian Candidate stuff comes from the right wing, but I am beginning to wonder just a little bit about it. Why was all of that POW info sealed Forever ?
The right wingers are saying Clark "Swift Boated" McCain...I guess that means Clark told the truth. They've let their own cat out of the bag.
In the future it should be a requirement that every presidential candidate has ridden in a jet fighter and been shot down.
How else can we guarantee a qualified candidate pool?
Please excuse the military speech.
If Gramps is so proud of his fucking record, why can't we see it? National Security ? How we lost in Viet Nam? Oh, excuse me the minimal win in Viet Nam.
I got a passport and I'd hate to use it to leave but, this wacko is scaring me as much or more than the shrub.
If the McCain campaign feels this is the strength of his candidacy then this is exactly what should be looked at in great detail. Swiftboating would require distorting the facts to support ones own ideology. Clark's comments did not distort facts as he was giving his opinion while providing more details on the kinds of tasks McCain performed while in the military.
McCain has a short fuse which may or may not be attributed to his time spent as a POW. It is a reality this man is a hot head who has demonstrated this time and time again in Congressional meetings.
I found this little gem in a Wash. Post article and thought I would share it.
"McCain's relationship with House Republicans has been strained for years. After stumping for more than 50 GOP candidates during the 2000 campaign, McCain dramatically scaled back his efforts in 2002 out of pique toward House Republicans who opposed his effort to overhaul campaign finance law. In 2004, while McCain was objecting to GOP-backed tax cuts, then-Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) suggested that the senator, a former prisoner of war, should go to Walter Reed Army Medical Center to see what "sacrifice" meant to the nation."
STRAIGHT TALKING BLUES.
"McCain was down at the end of the table and we were talking to the head of the guerilla group here at this end of the table and I don't know what attracted my attention," Cochran said. "But I saw some kind of quick movement at the bottom of the table and I looked down there and John had reached over and grabbed this guy by the shirt collar and had snatched him up like he was throwing him up out of the chair to tell him what he thought about him or whatever. I don't know what he was telling him but I thought, good grief everybody around here has got guns and we were there on a diplomatic mission. I don't know what had happened to provoke John but he obviously got mad at the guy and he just reached over there and snatched him." - Republican Sen. Thad Cochran on a meeting that he and McCain were in with the Sandinista's in 1987.
General_Rennenkampf @ 74:
Have you looked at the national debt lately?
So Cheney at last report has moved all his holding off-shore and into European investments and Bush bought a 10,000 acre ranch in Paraguay so either these are "just in case" moves or they know that things are unraveling.
GF @ 82:
Attacking General Clark and playing the outraged martyr keeps the McCain camp from having to talk about the economy and how their numbers don't add up and many have been rightly dismissed as stupid gimmicks.
"when I joined the Navy...." no, this is true... when i joined NO ONE i knew wanted to be stationed on that carrier-i didn't know why at that time, but now i do.
Are there any credible comments that dispute the articles found on the Vietnam Veterans Against Mccain website? For example:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
am a Korean vet, MP and infantry squad leader and I agree with Gen. Clark. Being a fighter pilot and a POW does not qualitify anyone to be president, so why are the McCain supporters up in arms? Is it because there is more than meet the eye if his military records are closely looked at. If as he admits to in his bio, confessed to being a war criminal, why wont he let the tapes of his confession be used. What about the five planes he was involved in crashing? If his military record is so good, why was changes made in his Wikipedia bio changed since 2/28/2008. What does McCain have to hide
Can we please, please, please stop using the beyond-stale Claude Rains/Casablanca comparison?!
McCain's experience as a POW was about as admirable as it gets... can't take that away from him...
However, his career in the military leaves a lot to be desired. Not particularly stellar...
> McCain graduated about sixth from the bottom of his class (894 our of 899 studends) at the Naval Academy. With that kind of academic record he is luck to have graduated at all and was likely helped to graduate by his family’s background (all those McCain Admirals)…
> nobody who graduates at the bottom of their class gets to fly fighter planes off an aircraft carrier… the naval pilot jobs are usually resevered for the top % of naval students….. so his family background once again likely got him into the pilot seat….
> McCain crashed three airplanes…. usually when you crash one airplane you get sent packing….. so how was this guy able to keep flying…. HE CRASHED THREE PLANES THAT HE PILOTED + THE ONE HE WAS SHOT DOWN IN + THE ONE THAT HE WAS IN ON THE FORRESTAL… see this link mentioning the three he did crash…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....May11.html
this guy had no business flying planes after so many crashes…
> on his second combat mission over Vietnam he is shot down…. pretty embarassing
Net-net he has no great resume of being a successful naval pilot…. in fact he has even said himself that he was no great pilot.... he was no TOP GUN MAVERICK...
and his military experience does not at all qualify him to be President, in fact, one could argue quite the opposite....
beyond the military his resume is quite skimpy... just a career politican that rode the Reagan wave and his wife's money into office...
I still have yet to hear anyone explain how bombing civilians and destroying five U.S. airplanes (at least) is a qualification to be president.
Here is a real gem. McCain surrogate Pete Hegseth was on hardball and accused military families who are debating McCain's leadership credentials as "far left"
Sad thing is this guy makes the broadcast circuit, acting like he represents the entire military voting block. Of course he doesn't.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25483676#25483676
Let's face it.....McCain's life would have been an utter failure without that fateful crash into N. Nam. He did nothing before that which was praiseworthy, and he's really not done much since.
Being a POW was really the best thing that ever happened to him. Up to that time, he had not nor was he ever going to be able to live up to the standards set by his Admiral Daddy and Grand Pappy.
In many respects, his psychology is very similar to George W. Bush - born into a high achieving family (granted, not nescessarily Good achievements), saddled with high expectations to carry on the family traditions, but not blessed with the brains or temperment necessary to complete the mission. Each failed spectacularly in their early lives and then, filled with rage and resentment, went on to develop sociopathic tendencies to prove Daddy wrong at all costs. We've seen in the last 8 years how that works out.....
Beyond his terrible military record the question is what are his major achievements in government service...
Anything at all stand out? What does his government resume look like?
We know that he has been a part of this terrible Republican government. He and his Republican colleagues are responsible for the Iraq War, the economy, the low dollar, and the U.S.'s standing in the world. He owns these issues just as much as Bush...
What has he done particularly in the last 8 yrs when his party pretty much had all the power? His big immigration bill failed and now he would vote against it....
He has very little to show for himself either in military or in government service.
He talks about this supposive expertise and judgement on foreign affairs and the military, but what proof is there that he has any good skills in any of these areas?
He has supported one of the worst foreign plunders (Iraq) in this country's history... that alone discounts any of his supposive foreign and military expertise and experience..... he certainly did not show any leadership on Iraq and supported the Bush party line along this travesty..
if he says he was against the execution of the war why did he not do something as he was in a position to do something given that it was his party ruling and he was on the Armed Services Committee.... he talks a good game, but that is it...
The bottom line is that General Clark did not criticize McCain's military record - he just pointed out that piloting a fighter and being a POW does not qualify as experience in making command decisions and evaluations of military risks - things that a general officer would be responsible for, not a pilot of a fighter plane, and that is what the president must be able to accomplish successfully.
Janet @ 5:
But who said he would be running the country? Seems to me Mcbush III (AKA Bush II) would still be running the country -- Mcbush III would be living in sub floors 3 and 4 and would be led outside under dog collar for public affairs with big bone in mouth!
The Dude @ 50:
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"FYI Respect is earned, not granted..."
Anyone who has served in the armed services should have earned your respect by now.
doogie @ 100:
"FYI Respect is earned, not granted..."
Anyone who has served in the armed services should have earned your respect by now.
You mean like Lee Harvey Oswald? Or Oliver North? Or George W. Bush? Etc.
Ziggy:
I take it you haven't really heard Keith Olberman 'cause if you had, you wouldn't say that.
I'm really sorry you've got the swiftboat syndrome and somehow equate your government with the nation as a whole.
I'm sorry you can't get over your anger and frustration over being used by these people to murder Vietnamese for the benefit of fascist traitors and large corporations. Just like the poor soldiers who are being used today in Iraq, like Hitler used the Wermacht in Europe (they have a hard time facing the truth about WWII because I know some actually).
Your own commanders in 1964 concluded the Vietnam war could not be won, so I don't understand why you can't accept that it's not your fault, the hippies' fault, the media, John Kerry, or anyone else but your own government.
So don't hate those on this site who don't want it to happen again. Don't get angry with people like us. We are patriots. We love our country and we are right to demand that the criminals who screwed you and are destroying this republic today be held accountable. Our founding fathers would demand the same.
Educate yourself. You know deep down something is dreadfully wrong. Find out why this happening. Do that and you will understand why we are here, commenting on this site.
The militarism and fascism that is slowly destroying this country and lives all over the world must end. That's not what America stands for and you know it.
Join us Ziggy.
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