Feingold on FISA sham bill: "Senators should take a real hard look at whether they want to be associated with such an attack on the rule of law"
By SilentPatriot Monday Jul 07, 2008 2:35pm
Senator Feingold took to the Senate floor today and, with the help of Sen. Arlen Specter, challenged his colleagues to wrap their minds around what granting retroactive telecom immunity would mean for the rule of law, and wondered how they could be voting on such a thing when 70 members don't even have access to the evidence of alleged impropriety.
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"This is an amazingly inappropriate use of legislative interference, a push by this administration, and Senators should take a real hard look at whether they want to be associated with such an attack on the rule of law."
Glenn Greenwald has more:
Once passed by the Senate, the FISA bill will then immediately be sent by the Democratic Congress to an eagerly awaiting and immensely pleased President Bush, who will sign it into law, thereby putting a permanent and happy end to the scandal that began when -- in December, 2005 -- he was caught spying on the communications of American citizens in violation of the law. The only real remaining questions are (a) whether Bush will host Steny Hoyer and Jay Rockefeller at a festive, bipartisan White House signing ceremony to celebrate the evisceration of the Fourth Amendment and the rule of law, and (b) whether Bush, when he signs the bill into law, will append a signing statement decreeing that even its minimal restraints on presidential spying are invalid.
Extended version of Senator Feingold's remarks below the fold:
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Hooray for Feingold. We need more like him.
We no longer have a country. We have mafioso in charge of the executive and their henchmen/bagmen in charge of congress. With a very few brave exceptions, it is all corrupt.
Feingold is one of the lone exceptions. Let us hope against hope that he wins the day.
Quite possibly the best man in Washington D.C.
If only Obama could be so strong!!!
Feingold wouldn't run, I know why.
I feel like writing in his name!
He'll be the first the brownshirts destroy.
I was waiting for the Rockefeller Vs Spector (spelling?) moment (before the break) and hope that you all can see it.
There's no chance he'll suceed. BushCo must have enough dirt on the Dems (via his illegal wiretapping) to force them to cave on this. It won't even be close. Why doesn't Dodd or Feingold put a "hold" on this?
It's too late. It's like George Carlin said, this country is finished.
Feingold is, maybe, Cicero standing up for the Republic in it's last days.
The frustrating thing about it is that when the Roman Senate capitulated to the tyranny of empire, it did so because it had lost the support of the people. In our case, 71% of the people want our pathetic excuse for a "Caesar" to get the heck out of town, and still the Congress caves in to his wishes.
There are cowards, damned cowards, and then there's Steny Hoyer and Jay Rockefeller. Sheeesh!
Arlen Specter is one of the few Republicans that has earned my respect.
Specter is all blow. He ALWAYS gives in to Bush.
Emphasis mine. He (or she) is not the phreaking Commander in Chief of the phreaking Country, he (or she) is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces, and then only when called into actual service.
That is it, period.
Bush has abused his power. Among many other crimes. Impeach the bastard, already.
They are essentially voting to OK the wiretapping of their own phones/laptops/personal lives. This administration has proved that it cannot be trusted with this information.
With no explanation, Comcast took C-span2 off our cable last month. Now the only way I can watch it is via computer. Not the most comfortable way to watch, but hey, I'll do it.
I don't know why Russ Feingold wouldn't run for president. He is the very best! He's a Rhodes scholar and smart in so many fields. You can always count on him to be on our side. He was the only Senator to vote against the Patriot Act. When he was asked why he voted against it, he said, "I read it" and he didn't like what it said.
The only real remaining questions are (a) whether Bush will host Steny Hoyer and Jay Rockefeller at a festive, bipartisan White House signing ceremony to celebrate the evisceration of the Fourth Amendment and the rule of law...
Hell, Bush'll probably give them the Medal of Freedom.
Matt in Texas @ 5:
It could also be that many of these Congressmen and Senators are making money off the war.
Matt in Texas @ 8:
Supporting Specter in the past has been like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. Specter always pulls the ball away at the last minute.
pissed off patricia @ 11:
Then who would speak for the Constitution in the Senate?
The best line of the debate so far may have been just uttered by Leahy of Vermont: "This bill will make the courts handmaidens to a cover up."
So I guess publishers need to go back and revise all those civics textbooks that instruct we have three independent branches of government. Apparently we only have two. The courts have lost their independence, and the American people have lost their ability to seek redress. Sad day today.
pissed off patricia @ 11:
1. He is a Jew, for many "Christians" Jew=Christ Killer, ask Mel Gibson and Rev. Dobson
2. He was married 3 times, not a big deal to me but his divorces may have been "messy" we don't know
3. He says he feels he is better off in the Senate
Could be. I just can't fathom why any of them would think this bill is OK. Somebody HAS to be lining Congressional pockets somewhere, otherwise, what's the point of this bill?
Cue countdown to shrubbie asking for proactive immunity and the dems compromising by not only giving him immunity but his descendants as well, or better yet, a type of midas touch immunity, that way shrubbie can grant immunity to whomever it wants and they in turn can do the same.
Can elected officials be held criminally liable for failing to uphold their oaths of office?
Feingold is great, but we have others too. Just need one to say "How can we let one criminal (Bush) demand someone else break the law also?" National security my ass!
all hail the hypno toad @ 18:
Read the bill. Prospective immunity is right there in it. Along with a provision for the taxpayers to pay retail to the telecoms for the privilege of being spied upon.
There is a crime in here somewhere and I'm not just talking about the wiretaps and the telecoms. Why in heavens name would any Senator of the United States vote for something this dangerous to our history and our future? This isn't just about trying to prevent "terrorist attacks" it's about something much larger. I agree with what Senator Leahy just said. This bill will make the courts handmaidens to a cover up.
R.I.P. The American Experiment
Under Article 3 of the Constitution the Congress has the ability to remove kinds of court cases from the jurisdiction of the Federal Courts. It does not have the ability to remove cases from the jurisdiction of state courts.
The next step is to research what state laws were violated and file lawsuits in all 50 states.
The telecoms will not be able to appeal state court decisions to the Federal Courts.
This is going to turn into a bigger mess with 50 states all doing different things.
BobbyG @ 21:
Yeah I know, but obviously in wingnut minds it's not forceful enough, plus it doesn't grant immunity for all crimes.
POP@14: Yes, how very true. Specter is, has been and will always be on my
"you know what list" since he is the one Senator that I vividly recall gave Anita
Hill(During the Thomas S/C hearings) such a hard time with his unethetical and
downright contempious questioning. He is not ever to be trusted.
Wish I could believe Specter. But we've been here with him before.
doggiebobo @ 26:
I'm watching him now and listening to him. Just waiting for his caveat regarding being against this bill.
and ROME is BURNING AGAIN!!!!!!!!
Nerobush is laughing as he plays his violin.even if democrats controlled the white house, had 100 member majority in the senate, and had a majority in the house, with all but one SINGLE Republican left in the house, they'd still pussy out and give the one lone Republican anything and everything he wanted. I feel kinda ashamed that I got swept up in the enthusiastic fervor of voting for Democrats whom I thought would be agents of change. I feel like by voting I've helped them legitimize the so called democratic process of the United States. It's all a big bait and switch apparently. You can feel good about voting against Republican ideals while actually doing nothing at all.
POP@28: Even if he votes against(Nay) the FISA bill, it will not be sincere.
He will have already check the rolls and counted the votes and should there
be sufficient votes to pass, he will(for political gamesmanship) vote against it.
He is a fool if he thinks we are fools and believe anything he says..
Maybe they can grant the little bastard prima nocta as well, as he's already fucked the country figuratively.
"Can elected officials be held criminally liable for failing to uphold their oaths of office?"
Question is, by whom?
A corrupt government is NO government.
I Like Pie @ 24:
HR 6304 has a "Federal Pre-emption" section neutering any state actions, legal or regulatory over these matters.
New Order of the Ages (NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM)
The eye of Horus hovering above an unfinished pyramid.
That is the "Great Seal" you find on the dollar.
Comforting.
This seems like too much being made out of so little. It doesn't protect the telecoms from criminal action-it only protects them from civil liabilities so why should I pull out my "give a damn" for about it? Obama wasting his political capital on such a minor issue at this point seems pointless. And as much as I'd LOVE to see Bush, Cheney and Rove frog-marched in handcuffs out of the White House/Fox News and into jail for crimes against the state-I'd rather see the White House returned to democratic hands and at least restore the rest of the constitution-can anyone remember habeas corpus? That's more important to me than whether or not someone can sue At&T!
Props to Sen. Feingold!!
But wait a minute, I thought the immunity was not for anthing "criminal" meaning that even if the bill is passed and if in a review of the activities of the telecoms it is discovered they did commit an illegal act, which they probably did authorized by the Criminal in Charge, that they could be held accountable in a court of law? Is it that this bill would render the law suits currently being pursued moot?P
Props to Feingold though.
Seemed right at the end of his speech, Specter waffled a little bit.
hank @ 33:
evidently no one in congress is held to the law,
they are just a bunch of fucking fascists posing as
democrats and repugs. the corporations have won.
Feingold is as fine a stateman as this country hs ever seen,
Also, by the way, in all due respcet, does Arlen Specter have cancer? He certainly looks like it.
An Average Joe @ 40:
Yes, his cancer has returned.
From where I'm sitting, this is going to demoralize the electorate in a terrible way. Why should I go to the election booth yet another time? I should love to get a bi-partisan beating? WTF? (eyes liquor cabinet)
"I was waiting for the Rockefeller Vs Spector (spelling?) moment (before the break) and hope that you all can see it."
It is not a sports bet. I just knew this would happen. There seem to be alot of Rockefeller fans here? and I just happened to like the questions posed by Spector early on (before their lunch break).
Sorry, but I really don't care about the characters here, only the plot. There's still a real possibility for criminal prosecution here even though the civil ones would be flushed away if passed as is.
http://cancer.about.com/b/2008/06/01/arlen-specter.htm
Indeed he does.
No Senator who votes for this bill should ever be allowed in American politics ever again.
Bottom line, if no laws were broken, why would immunity be needed or even considered?
Wow, is Senator Whitehouse "right on"; but WHO is listening?
Screw the (p)resident and screw the telecoms, dog knows they've screwed us ten times over. It's time for another tea party!
I Like Pie @ 7:
The only spying Spector cares about is when it happens to his beloved Philadelphia Eagles.
doggiebobo @ 46:
Yeah.
I am, that's for sure.
doggiebobo @ 46:
Whitehouse can verbally cut your throat and you wouldn't know it until you felt the blood trickle down. He's excellent!
Did AT and T or Verizons service agreements ( that they like to quote with great efficiency when to their benefit ) say they just might turn all of your private phone and internet records over to the Feds without warrants ? I would have just called them and told them to stuff it under that premise. Make them include this on agreements next time WARNING - We are likely to turn over your personal records with no legal justification at any time to suck off a facist government.
Remember when the Constitution was'nt a " god damned piece of paper" to be shit on daily by the Neo Convicts and the Rescumlicans ?
I was listening, online, untill C-span zapped out. The streaming stopped and the c-span site is not opening; right in the middle of Whitehouse's speech. Anyone else having this problem?
#36: Suz says: "This seems like too much being made out of so little....That’s more important to me than whether or not someone can sue At&T!"
In general I agree with you except that this action sets a terribly bad precedent, and that's presuming this bill is even upheld as constitutional. It lets two branches of government make the third branch basically irrelevant by pre-judging cases. It takes away a basic right to due process. If Congress and the President can get away with it on this issue, then why not on another, and another, and another?
Okay, its back now, and oh great, Sen Jay Repugfellator is back to, wonderful.
Typically White & Bitter Agent Wright-is-right Huessein Provocateur @ 52:
I'm watching the same way and mine is working fine. I just checked and their site opens up fine for me too.
Typical@53: Yeah, experiencing the same problem. Someone is not wanting us
to see the truth about FISA bill, so naturally they cut off Whitehouse. There goes
the freedom of the press, along with our other civil rights.
Typically White & Bitter Agent Wright-is-right Huessein Provocateur @ 56:
I'm glad you're back on board. Hope you don't have any more problems. :)
This whole thing smells nasty. Nobody from the telecoms is being sued for money. Nobody from the telecoms is being criminally prosecuted. What the hell do they need immunity from?
There is more to this than just spying.
I've been trying for 20 minutes and still can't get on.
pissed off patricia @ 58:
My video isn't working either; but, the audio only link is working.
GRRR.... I just don't know what to say. Makes me want to disengage from the whole process...but I won't...
I'm so disappointed in those shameless Fu*%ers
Spineless, cowering, quivering, chickenshit motherfuckers.
The republic is dead.
Sounds like Arlan Spector wants to be re-elected in 2010. He will have some strong competition from the Democrats. It is sad for him. His cancer has returned.
Suz in KS @ 36 Says: "can anyone remember habeas corpus? That’s more important to me than whether or not someone can sue At&T!"
I think we all feel that way too. It's the Senators voting in favor of this bill that control the legislation though and apparently feel that protecting the criminal actions of the telecoms to be the most important thing they have to do this week. At this point we take our battles were we find them. But it seems clear the time must come when we are the ones who choose the battles. Time for pre-emptive action on the part of the citizens. Perhaps we need a National Moratorium to remove the criminals from our government?
How did we get to this point? Debating privacy? Debating whether warrants are needed to secretly spy on all Americans? Someone took a wrong turn a long time ago and now we seem so lost we may never find our way back to the right road.
Someone go up there and kick Rockefeller's ass.
Wonder how many of you on here have cancelled your Verizon or AT&T service? Neither of them are any the worse for wear because of this.
I can only hope that Wisconsin secedes from the union so we can elect Russ our president.
As a nation, we're fucked.
25 minutes and still NO CSPAN 2 covering the FISA hearing. WTF?
doggiebobo @ 70:
It's still working for me.
devildog21 @ 69, I didn't actively cancel my Verizon account. I just stopped sending them any money last fall until they volunteerily disconnected it for me around the first of the year. And they won't get a dime until whoever in their corporation allowed wiretaps without a warrant is in prison. I will not fund criminal activity if at all possible.
Is this thing on? Hello...hello...Preznit Bush?....hello...can you hear me?
I don’t understand why people are so surprised. What have the Democrats done in years to make you believe they give two craps about or understand working people? The Republicans obviously don’t, I just don’t understand what makes people think the Democrats must be paid off or have some dirt against them. No, they’re elites and they don’t want the system to change. They’ll change as much as they have to, to retain power, and no more. They certainly won’t change the system fundamentally. We don’t have a functioning democracy, if we did these people would have one power, to listen to what their constituents tell them to do or to step down, that’s what a functioning democracy is.
Americans haven’t gotten off their fat asses to do anything about the system, they aren’t directly pushing against the government or threatening anyone in power. Don’t expect much of anything to change until they do. Even the good ones like Feingold, who is smack dab in the middle of public opinion on the issues, can’t get things done without a citizens movement. The problem is that Americans think that democracy is simply voting, and its much more than that. Representative, liberal elite run democracy has distorted our view of what democracy is and made us far too passive.
#70: "25 minutes and still NO CSPAN 2 covering the FISA hearing. WTF?"
I'm watching it fine on cable Comcast CSPAN 2. TBH...the way the debate is going, I wish my cable would go out. I find this debate all too depressing.
doggiebobo @ 70:
I wish I could hand my reception to you because I'm about ready to shut it down. You aren't missing much. Just a bunch of chit chat back and forth.
Finally have it.
#76: "I wish I could hand my reception to you because I’m about ready to shut it down. You aren’t missing much. Just a bunch of chit chat back and forth."
Switch over to CSPAN1 -- Obama's live speech to LULAC. Pretty impressive.
"Hi, I'm your law-maker, and I'd like your support when I work to undermine the laws that I'm so proud to uphold. Pay me to drive you crazy and injure you."
Thune is talking about high energy cost. That's my cue to turn it off.
See you guys tomorrow. Have a pleasant evening.
Terrible, I checked and US Cellular is one company that told Bushco to fuck off. Guess who I'm using?
Senator Thune has to change the subject.
I believe Sen Thune is taking part in what we around these here internet tubes call a "hijack".
#82: "Senator Thune has to change the subject."
Maybe the moderators here on C&L can get jobs in the Senate. They'd simply delete the likes of Thune as "Off topic." Can't blame Thune though for changing the subject. Seems like this bill is a done deal. Next.
[Rico- my apologies for the earlier chastising. It was completely uncalled for. I read your comment out of context. I'll try to do better next time. Thank you. Site Monitor]
I Like Pie @ 26:
That may be true, but there will be strong preemption arguments for the telco's. They win in Congress, they win.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
That stupid oaf Pelosi needs to be replaced by this real American Democrat! Why is this man not running for President? No surprise that Congress has only a 9% approval rating.
devildog21 @ 81:
Qwest also refused to turn over records.
Coincidentally, their CEO was indicted in 2007 on charges of insider trading.
I think its time for the Left (and Right) to embrace the 2nd amendment and practice it.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
pissed off patricia @ 12:
"I support the compromise." -Obama
Assuming he read it...Guess he likes what it sez.
Does anyone know what Ex Post Facto means? This legislation is not only attacking the 4th Amendment people. There are at least 2 articles under attack. Keep pounding the phones, desks, and emails of your senators to let them know that you will not accept anything less than a nay vote.
pissed off patricia @ 12:
Russ DID run for president- or at least tested the waters early in this campaign.
"Attack on the rule of law?"
No...actually the rule of law is bullshit. The rule of law is THEIR rule and THEIR law. Not our rule and our law.
To attack the rule of law would be to uphold the Constitution. Something not accomplished very much by our government in the last 20 years.
Charles @ 93, "I owe no allegence; I bow to no throne; My ruler is Law; And the Law is my own." American Revolutionary War song
Mr. Obama , please do the right thing for America vote NO.
Senate Democrats, please do the right thing for America and vote NO.
We are watching!
RE @ 94, Vermont Green Mountain Boys song to be specific I think.
Russ is my boyfriend:) 98% of Congress aren't even fit to lick his boots.
It will be interesting to see who follows Russ. Those who do not should face serious reelection considerations when their term runs out. These people are violating the law if they uphold Bush. So few true patriots serve in congress. Russ is one of the good guys.
Suz in KS @ 38:
This vote is a bell weather of how the next votes will go.
IMO, the Congress who know the details, ~38 of them, have all been wiretapped and bribed. The others that don't know are so scared that they may have been tapped and their criminality exposed (anyone remember Denny Boy re Sibel Edmonds?) that they will go along with it.
The Judiciary has been so compromised that it will take two terms to clean it up; no one should have expectations of any prosecutions. There will be no criminal cases taken up by a new administration the reason being it will be too "partisan" and we should all look forward to the future or some such nonsense. Obama is afraid to seem "partisan", especially with his highly touted "bi-partisan" sheen and polish.
devildog21 @ 81:
Quest also... are they still in bidniss?
This whole debate reminds me of Leona Helmsley and her refrain that "Only the little people pay taxes." In this case the refrain from Congress and the White House seems to be "The law doesn't apply to us."
"No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." -- US Constitution
"The worlds greatest deliberative body, the united states congress"
What a joke that man is, an instant liar as well.
ra ra ra we're #1 ra ra ra we're #1 ....... and so goes the chant of the dead america that just wont shut up and go home.
Close the borders and ferment already !
I guess if we lose on FISA it might turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
Maybe this might turn out to be a great tool to have handy for investigating the corrupt republican crime machine once Obama is in office.
No warrants, no worries.
Now they can listen in and collect evidence to investigate without those pesky rights getting in the way since all those presidential powers now held by Bush will be held by a liberal.
Terrible @ 94:
That's a Terrible mis-quote. That is a para phrase of a line out of a poem called "The Song of the Vermonters, 1779" written in 1833 by John Greenleaf Whittier. The eighth stanza reads:
"Yet we owe no allegiance, we bow to no throne,
Our ruler is law and the law is our own;
Our leaders themselves are our own fellow-men,
Who can handle the sword, or the scythe, or the pen."
Terrible, at least get the quote and attribution correct if your going to post it all over the net.
Bravo, Senator Feingold........that was a very sensible argument.
Unfortunately it has been found publicly that there are in fact those in Congress who do associate with those that attacks our nations Rule of Law. It is unfortunate that these misguided unpatriotic individuals are also complicit to the law-breakers and they themselves have violated their oath of office and duty to defend, protect the U.S. Constitution against all enemies (domestic and foreign) regardless who they may be (friend, colleage, campaign contributors or family members). The attack as you call it has been done and the attackers and slackers will be accountable if not now or sooner, then later.
The public understand that it is the perogative as elected officials to put forth what actions they deemed but THEY will be held accountable for their choice of actions. The Public is NOT very forgiving when it comes LAW-Breakers. Patriotic AMERICAN are too proud to just dismiss the issue and ignor the issue as if it never happened. To do so IS NOT standing up to OUR CIVIL DUTIES and a disrespect for those that have put great efforts to maintain our LAWS.
Many of our ancestors who have died so that WE have the liberty we enjoy today and our forefathers who intended the U.S. Constitution as a directives for government and to place those in power certain limitation....so to protect any act of abuse of power......over the rights of our nation's citizen. This clearly should NOT to be tampered with as the current Executive branch has done under it's complicit, spineless 110th House of Congress. The Congress has clearly over step its boundaries by their own neglect to the rule of LAW; just as they are partnered by allowing the crimes of the Executive Branch to continue. By the mere fact that they have demonstrated intentional, a clear utilization of the Stonewall tactics IS in itself a violation of their duty to the U.S. Constitution as set forth.
anyone who votes for passing fisa is a traitor to america and a traitor to our constitution,
I am SO glad that I immigrated to Canada last year, before the US will fall, and I will be watching from North of the border when it implodes. I suppose they will get my e-mail address from here somehow. SO sad. :o(
KUH
BOO
KEY
R.I.P. 4th Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
JM @ 104:
Our despots are much more trustworthy than their despots.
Riiiiight.
BennyP @ 92:
And for some reason helped derail the Edwards campaign.
"You have to consider what the audience is, and obviously these are very popular positions to take when you are in a primary where you are trying to get the progressive vote. But wait a minute -- there were opportunities to vote against the bankruptcy bill, there was an opportunity to vote against the China [trade] deal. Those are the moments where you sort of find out where somebody is. So I think, people are being taken in a little bit that now he is taking these positions."
Thanks, Russ....Hows Obama's FISA, NAFTA, Faith Based BS working for you? "Progressive" enough?
"...people are being taken in a little bit that now he is taking these positions."?
Yep, we sure are.
i don't really care anymore; it is just another step towards rapture 2008 as far as i am concerned.
If the spineless Obama had just come out publicly and state what Feingold is stating now, chances are good telecom immunity would be dead. But no, we can't have Dems in leadership positions who are leaders.
Matt in Texas @ 6:
Because Reid won't honor it.
CiantGock @ 32:
Dems are too busy taking the "high road" in the name of bipartisanship. IOW, they are busy rubber-stamping every Bush bill.
sickening
I have one question left; What does America stand for, what does it mean to be an American? The rule of law has been shown to be a farce, and now the constitution no longer matters. Why should not every criminal in jail demand to be released from jail tommorrow, after the Congress gives a get of jail free card to Bush and his cronies. Since the rule of law no longer matters everyone should be absolved of their sins. Why should rich corporations who flood money into congressional coffers get a special privilege individuals don't, that is unless you are the President, his cronies, or the rich. God I am so angry and ashamed of the Democratic party tonight.
Tomorrow will be one of the saddest days in the history of our nation!
Sadder still is that Obama is going along with calling this "capitulation" a "compromise."
I'll still support him in the election because he is far better than McCrazy and there yet may be hope that he will restore the constitution and the rule of law. I will admit though that I think it is doubtful.
As John Adams noted:
Rasputin @ 119:
Is he far better than McCrazy? Or will he continue the Dem strategy of doing everything the Repubs ask, in the name of "bipartisanship"? At this point, it's hard saying he will not do the Repubs bidding everytime the Repubs create any stir.
the makeup on this pig of one-party rule is wearing off!
anyone think there actually are two parties?
I love Feingold. Where the hell have you been?!? You disappeared when we needed you the most. Feingold is who should have been running as our candidate. He would have blown both Hillary and Barrack out of the water (IMHO).
What a joke. If he, or any other Senator, really wanted to show they were against the bill, instead of giving some pretty little speech and then sitting down, they would give a real fillibuster, and not stop talking until it becomes impossible to continue. Or is civil rights legislation the only things anyone fillibusters anymore?
Or maybe... it's all a game, and it's been rigged from the start.
I am just beside myself with discuss, about this bill passing. I am starting to wonder what is it going to take to get Democrats to start acting like Democrats.
This is not the kind of legislation they need to be making deal with and all of these fools know it.
They all took the other office to uphold the laws of this land and to defend the constitution and not one of these idiots, has any kind of justification whatso ever to deny the American people the right to deal with Bush and these phone companies, that screwed over us.
They are getting to the point that they are simply refusing to stand up for any kind of justice, where Bush and these cheap right wing thugs are conserned and that simply pisses me off to know end.
When that get ready to run for their offices, they will stand up before us as big as they please and lie, like the dogs they are, to get our votes, yet soon as they take office, they pull this kind of shit.
I am so dame tired of this being the norm. We have to get rid of these ass holes who are now using the fact they know we want to get rid of the rebublicans so dame bad, that we have to vote them into office.
Well in some areas they may have a point but in others, where we have some good prospects for these democratic seats, we need to blow all of these fools out of the water.
If these people are not going to do their dame jobs, what the hell sense does it make to keep putting up with them, when they could and should stand up for the people that put their asses into office, when they turn around and give us the finger after doing so.
All of these ass holes in Congress will be up for election again in 2009, and I can't wait to deal with them, especially the dame Blue Dogs and we can deal with the idiots in the Senate as they come up
I am so tired of this shit
Buckle up, we are heading for a hard fall.
I've heard it said that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
In 2006 I voted angry; I don't think I've ever voted as angrily in my life. This year my vote will be directed toward sweeping from power any of my elected representatives responsible for this bill's passage, no matter what party they represent.
This year I will vote my depression.
The capitulation on FISA tomorrow will certainly set the mood for many other voters during the November elections, and excepting President Bush the blame for the top-down collapse of law and liberty that ensues will not fall on the Republicans. Oh, no: It'll fall on their ostensible 'opposition'-the Democratic majority-who neglected their oaths to defend the Constitution and cowered before the most unpopular president in history.
The outcome will likely affect Senator Obama's campaign, robbing him of a much-needed edge against McCain: voters who feel jilted might just as well choose to stay home on election day, rather than vote in a former Professor of Constitutional Law who evidently doesn't care much for it any more.
The Democrats will almost certainly broaden their majorities in both houses this fall, but after tomorrow their victory will be bitter at best, and Obama's campaign against McCain will have become that much more of a toss-up. Further, the Democrats' actions may well signal the first nail in the coffin to Democratic majorities beyond 2008.
This FISA situation is a powder keg. Hope they know it.
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Kucinich/Feingold '08!
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i can dream
pissed off patricia @ 24:
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Q U E S T I O N:
Why the media blackout of the Senate's pending vote?
What effect does this blackout have on America?
IGNORANCE = STRENGTH ...?
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R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS...
... and so THEY(sic) vote on undoing those FREEDOMS!
THEY(sic) have entertained, THEY(sic) have pandered, THEY(sic) have been pleaded too, THEY(sic) have ignored the people's cries, THEY(sic) have betrayed our trust, THEY(sic) have betrayed the Oath of High Office, THEY(sic) have committed Treason to the Republic, THEY(sic) have hated our Rights, Freedoms and Liberties for far, FAR TOO long!
Q U E S T I O N:
~ Does your Senator have your permission to curtail your Fourth Amendment Rights>
~ How is your Senator defending and supporting your Fourth Amendment Rights when they vote to immunize Telecoms and the president for violating your Fourth Amendment Rights?
~ When over 70% of the Senators aren't informed, is your Senator purposefully evading responsibility by "CHOOSING" to not be informed about the prospects of ANY violation of your Constitutional Protected Rights?
~ Aren't ALL elected Officials OBLIGATED to be advocates for the People's Rights, Freedoms and Liberties as defined within the Constitution?
~ Didn't these elected High Officials agree to act in accordance to their sworn duty, FAITHFULLY?
~ When can we call it an act of Treason against the Republic?
... Before or after Bush signs it into law and punts this monstrosity to Obama/McCain/Other?
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Four years from now, during the 2012 election cycle (mark my word, if THEY(sic) vote for immunity) the question will NOT be, "Were you happier four years ago?" It will be, "Were you freer four years ago?"
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128 stdyofman,
Pen a letter like I did and send it around the world, to your freinds, your family, and most importantly, to your Senator.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION TO GRANT SUCH AN UNAMERICAN POLICY SO AS TO AIDE THE ADMINISTRATION AT USURPING THE RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, AND LIBERTIES OF THE REPUBLIC.
IMMUNIZATION OF LAWLESS BEHAVIOR = A ROGUE GOVERNMENT.
YOUR OATH OF OFFICE OBLIGATES YOU TO DEFEND AND SUPPORT THE PEOPLE’S RIGHTS, NOT THE CORPORATE RIGHTS!
YOUR OATH OF OFFICE OBLIGATES YOU TO DO SO WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION OR A PURPOSE OF EVASION!
YOUR OATH OBLIGATES YOU TO DO SO, FAITHFULLY!
DO SO, OR I WILL BE OBLIGATED TO FAITHFULLY VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE!
Xxxxxx Xxx
Seattle, Wa.
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Oh...
... All this warrantless spying started pre 9/11.
My senses say, it's an inside job.
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I have noticed that Arlen Specter tends to always say the right things but then he votes the Repulican party line.
Basically what he says means nothing.
.....I have one question left; What does America stand for, what does it mean to be an American? The rule of law has been shown to be a farce, and now the constitution no longer matters.....
America stands for the Mythical Melting Pot. You all bought into it and diluted the genes from your country of origin and now you have no place else to go!
Bravo, teknikAL (Comment 99). I couldn't agree more. Obama has boxed himself in a box. I just realized this morning the difference between working for the common, collective interests of the people and bi-partisanship. The difference is that all great leaders should work to unite the people, but good government doesn't require us to compromise with corrupted Republicans (or Democrats) in the name of bi-partisanship. I just wish Obama knew the difference.
It doesn't matter how Obama votes now. The damage he made by supporting the bill before the house vote has already been done. The idiot didn't even gain a few percentage points in right-wing votes, but lost all around in base support, integrity, and damage to our government.
Congratulations, Obama. You won nothing for your sell-out.
Vote for Barack Obama: the Lesser of Two Evils
Fuck you Democratic Rubberstamp-for-Bush Party.
What % of the population usually votes in a presidential election? Isn't it something low like 30%? HOW would we get closer to 100%, where we see more participation -- with people who care deeply enough about the outcome to take to the streets when they are lied to by the highly paid airhead/talking head, propaganda readers in media on election night? How do we get back to watching them count the votes on election night instead of the media reporting the winner (2000 anyone?) before the counting is done?
The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Murderous PURGES and terrorizing civil wars WITHIN a society are THE NORM in human societies... much less when the threat of foreign invasion or threat is thrown in the mix. Just look at all the civil wars and coups of the Roman Empire - or the even bloodier purges in Byzantine empire.
Indeed, TERROR _within_ a society is the norm, although over the past two centuries we have collectively striven for nation-state empires so big and stable, that the majority of people are immune from frequent purges and coups. But tell that to those who lived under the "stability" of the Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, or Soviet empires less than ten decades ago! (Or the American Civil War 15 decades ago.)
To get a taste how the waves of purges and terror can sweep through a society, imagine you are either Protestant or Catholic in England during the 16th Century. No matter which side you were on, an accident of fate (Henry VIII not having a male heir, his daughter Elizabeth 1 winning the throne against long odds) would leave you vulnerable to charges of Treason! as a monarch of the opposite faith swept into power (eg "Bloody Mary" purging Protestant, and Elizabeth returning the favor purging Catholics, Mary Queen of Scotts attempting to reassert Catholic supremacy, etc.) Then realize Yugoslavia's Bosnians/Serbs/Croats lived through exactly that purges/civil war/death-squads nightmare just a decade ago.
For a more entertaining look at those waves of terrifying purges and coups sweeping through a society, there is Shakespeare's uber-villain, Richard III.
http://www.william-shakespeare.info/script-text-richard-iii.htm
Proving that Shakespeare's insights are timeless, the Annette Bening-Ian McClellan movie of Richard III is set in a facist WWII era England, complete with trains, plains, and tanks, but the treachery terror, and waves or purges & civil wars are all the same.
http://www.amazon.com/Richard-III-Ian-McKellen/dp/6304046006
This particular FISA/police-state/war-state current of spying and war is also a reversion - to the ante-bellum (pre-Civil War) society of slavery, which was based on terrorizing slaves to _not even think_ of trying to escape, a "justice" system based on that inherent cruelty and inequality, and a hyper-violent, aggressive culture which enforced conformity to a theocratic, militaristic authoritarian state.
To get the full skinny on the Neo-Confederate anti-intellectual alliance with the Northeast Neo-Con finance/retail/media academics and intellectuals, see Michael Lind's "Made In Texas, George W. Bush and the SOUTHERN TAKEOVER of American Politics" which explains how this alliance stole election 2000 and got us into ever expanding Mideast wars.
http://www.amazon.com/Made-Texas-Southern-Takeover-American/dp/0465041213
"I am starting to wonder what is it going to take to get Democrats to start acting like Democrats."
But they are acting like Democrats, Blanche, they are!
And to those who think the EVIL Republicans are blackmailing the Democrats---for Christ's sake, grow up!
This all started with "Impeachment is off the table". This statement offically said that the Democrats would do nothing to stop this criminal administration on anything they did or would do. Our government is offically broken. If Cheney can make the fourth amendment null and void. What other laws does he plan on breaking. The corporations now have the last word. Our representitives are moot.
Obama; champion of civil liberties and human rights! HA ha ha ha ha ha. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. When you tire of Liberalism and want your country back think about becoming a real leftist.
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