Countdown: Russ Feingold Talks About FISA, A Sad Moment For Our Country
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Jul 08, 2008 9:00pm 
Today's vote in the Senate approving FISA legislation was a huge blow to our country, our Constitution and our rule of law. Twenty-six Democrats stayed true to democratic principles and voted against the bill, which grants immunity to telecommunication companies who betrayed the American people by illegally spying on our communications without warrants.
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One of the Democrats who voted correctly today was Senator Russ Feingold, who appeared on Wednesday's Countdown with Rachel Maddow. Feingold has long been a staunch advocate for following the Constitution, speaking out against President Bush's illegal wiretapping program and fighting and voting against the anti-American Patriot Act. Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama voted for the FISA legislation, and while Feingold says there is hope that as president, Obama could change the unconstitutional aspects of the bill, it was still "the wrong vote."
Maddow: "It is heartening to hear your optimism on the prospect of Obama's presidency on this issue, but of course, his vote today led a lot of us who see this as a real abrogation of the fourth amendment to be very concerned."
Feingold:"Well, it was the wrong vote. Any Democrat that voted that way was not voting according to what people in the Democratic Party clearly want, but, you know, we'll pull together after the election, we'll lay the case out again."
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France called....they want the Statue back....
Since it's not being used anymore....
"...we’ll pull together after the election, we’ll lay the case out again.”
I sure hope so...
Screwed.
Patriot Actor @ 1:
BEST comment ever :)
Again, Obama disappoints those who helped him win the nomination.
_
yes, Russ, we'll pull together. Like we did in 06. That really worked out well, didn't it?
I'm beginning to believe Bill Maher when he claims 'the Dems can fuck up any victory' or 'snatch defeat from the jaws of victory'....however he expressed it.
Don't like the results, but Bush would've vetoed anything else, anyway. And electing Obama would still be a form of flipping off the Republicans-which is all that matters to me. We have to repudiate everything that party is about before we can change the direction of the country. The reason it didn't work with Clinton was that the American public just wanted someone younger, not someone less of a Republican. This vote will count, though, because it would show that we want someone different across the board.
Barack Obama will remember this day for a very long time. He betrayed those who've believed in him and he's lost my vote - all because of a vote which outed his true intentions - total disregard for the constitution as well as our civil rights. Obama's campaign is O-V-E-R. Sadly, today will be written in the history books as the day in which the Congress overstepped their boundaries and condoned the abridgment of the rule of law in this country.
Sadly, Obama's Yea vote will now be placed in history with Dean's infamous "scream". Sadly, Obama will become totally irrelevant now and will join the ranks of the "also ran" but "lost".
Obama threw every american who believed in him right under the bus today.
Hillary Clinton voted no and McCain didn't vote. Now let's watch McCain say he didn't feel he could vote because the Congress had overstepped it's bounds and interferred with the rule of law and the right of the people for judicial review.
If McCain plays his cards right at this point and disavows the vote today implying that he's against it, it will be Game Over: Winner - JohnMcCain.
Special comment from Olbermann? wait, what am I thinking....nevermind.
Fingold is one of the few "good" guys, but I am soooooo upset/angry/disappointed
with the FISA Bill vote today that I have decided to discontinue watching/listening
to any of the MSM for a week. Just gonna go to liquor store, stock up, and listen
to some good music during that period.
I'm heart-sore, but not heart-broken. EFF and the ACLU are redoubling their efforts to bring lawsuits on all those involved in this blatant disregard for the Constitution. So, hang in there and keep fighting!
http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2008/07/telecoms-win-immunity-from-w...
I say kudos to Obama. The important part of this bill was passing legislation that will hold this administration accountable for the wiretapping. The communications companies involved were ordered by the government to do this. I really question if they would have been liable in court. The accountability is with this administration and Obama made sure that passed today.
After buying (and and pretty much destroying) the Republican Party, Corporate America has found far too many willing collaborators among the Democrats. Traitors.
Melissa @ 13:
Bullsh!t
I'd like to personally think Obama voted for the amendment, because he wants to take responsibility for it, when he becomes President. If he voted against it, it wouldn't accomplish anything, anyway. Plus, he'd be stuck with it, and have to enforce it against his will. But now he has even more of an obligation to insure it doesn't get abused.
Tequila @ 7:
So what if Bush had vetoed it.? That would have been a great outcome since it would have pushed the bill off the calendar and into the next session, more than likely. The old FISA law would still be in place and the Fourth Amendment would still be intact.
I thought Obama was supposed to be a "brilliant Constitutional lawyer." I thought he was going to show the Republicans what it's all about when it comes to preserving the Constitution. Now we all have to take a "wait and see" attitude? He can't do the right thing now but he will when he becomes president, is that the game plan? I suppose that's the "hope" part of his campaign. We've already witnessed the "change" part.
Yes. Yes.
Obama voted for this rotten piece of legislation...
but we can be real sure that he will fix everything when he's president..
In a pig's eye.
He'll never give up the power he has just given himself.
Bush 3 = McCain = McBama
Melissa @ 13:
No one is accountable when an impeachment-proof President can still issue blanket pardons. And FYI, if the Government "orders" you to shoot your neighbor or beat up your neighbor's child - it's still illegal.
I'm really tired of watching Obama become more like a Republican everyday. Voting against the Constitution, pandering to the religious right and conservatives in general. What do you gain by alienating the people who supported you in order to maybe, but not likely, get a few votes from people that didn't support you? And as he moves more to the right (er, I mean, 'center'...) how does that distinguish him from McCain? Wouldn't those same people just say 'gee, Obama's not all that different from the Republican candidate, I think I'll just vote Republican...'? Sorry, Obama, your strategy sucks, and is pissing off your main supporters. I sure as hell wouldn't vote Republican, but I'm not really seeing any reason to vote at all.
This all a charade.
Any Senator could have put a hold on this bill and kept it from seeing the light of day.
Or, threatened filibusters for every vote in the rest of the session.
It is posturing.
Fiengold/Sanders '08
LibertyLover @ 2:
Yeah, sure. As Sen. Whitehouse said today, during his Senate floor speech "against"
the FISA Bill..."This bill does have a Sunset Provision, however, such does not come
into play until 4 /12 years down the road, so it will not be until about June of 2012
before we can once again consider changes to the FISA Bill"...That is, I guess, when
"we'll lay the case out again"...BS
I like Senator Feingold, but enough of the blah, blah, blah we'll look into it next year. The horse is out of the barn, and it's not coming back. If there is any ray of hope, it is that the ACLU brings this matter to the Supream Court and if there is anyone there who still believes in the rule of law, perhaps things will change. But don't hold your breath.
Nice spin Russ but thanks for leading on this issue.
Wake up people. This bill today will not allow Bush to continue this practice of wiretapping. And with this administration beating the drum to start another war, this bill is right on time. Again the liability is with this administration not the communications companies. It was important to stop this administration now from this practice. Every Democrat that voted for this today...Kudos to them.
Richter: True, but given that McCain is the more "trusted" person on fighting terrorism, the Dems have to do whatever they can to undermine him. I hate these power games myself, but until we have a clear majority, and not just a near one, we're basically waiting these jerks out until November.
I’m still in a shocked state from witnessing Obama and Hillary prove today who was the better democratic candidate. With Obama ’s wholesale selling out to fear and politics and even approving cloture on FISA so as not to allow a filibuster, tells me all I need to know about this candidate of change.
I’ve got to tell you Obama-Heads that every once in a while , I get a good vibe when I think about what putting Mr. Obama in charge of this once decent nation would say to the rest of the planet.
After reading and hearing some of the most snarky, mean, hurtful and convoluted critiques of Mrs. Clinton over the past year it still stings to have to start coming around and landing in the Obama camp. It has to be done though and you’re either on the [Democrat] bus or you’re off the bus.
Thirty years of “Oh, all politicians are corrupt” bookended with the other classic”There’s no difference between Republicans and Democrats” put the Grover Norquist/Irv Kristol nail in the coffin when good/smart guy Albert Gore was defeated by a dry-drunk clunkhead who deserted his military duty.
In seven years, George Bush managed to thoroughly ruin my little Avril Rose’s America and I’ll never forget that.
No offense to Luke Russert but deciding to become an independent just means that the GOP triumphs. I understand why all you Ron Paul-heads and Dennis Kucinich-Heads and John Edwards-Heads really liked your candidate , I truly do-but we’ve got to get this country back into the hands of a party that will stop the dangerous direction that we’re All heading in.
I worry about this obviously good person Barack Obama and always have because of the well-known corrupting power that the District can have on a person. This FISA capitulation/aiding and abetting in the destruction of the Fourth Amendment is devastating. Is this some tough-guy Chicago Politics scheme to Criminally go after the Telecoms after he’s in office, as John Dean and Keith Olbermann posit?
Does Rezko, Donald Young, Larry Sinclair and blackmail do the trick?
Did some Senior Adviser convince him to abandon all principles merely to ensure that McCain couldn’t call Obama a friend to the tayerists?
Obama claimed that he would even veto a cloture on Immunity for the Telecoms as well as the actual bill so color me stunned.
It just might take a little while longer now to step onto that bus , that’s all
seriously @4, I second that!!!
meh...democrats always manage to fuck up their own elections, even when all the major issues are going for them.
i won't be surprised when everyone here is crying when we lose this one too. what a bunch of fucking whiners. grow up and win the damn white house.
osiris @ 8:
Ok troll - whatever you say.
The problem is that this time around we couldn't muster the 40 votes required to stop this atrocity. To repeal it next year will require 60.
Melissa @ 27:
Again I say Bullsh!t!
Obama is lame. He is a sell out like so many of the rest. And here I thought he might be different. Treason is so commonplace nowdays. I would be interested to here what he has to say for himself regarding reasoning for voting in favor of throwing away our civil liberties.
The ones hanging onto the hope that it might have a good ending are overlooking something. There is still ZERO accountability here for any of the criminals, and there isn't going to be any. This was less about spying on Susie Homemaker and more about covering their asses for when they decide to break the law, nobody will ever stand up and stop it...and as much as I still want to admire Obama, the reality is if he's elected (and I still wager they'll rig the elections again anyway so all this is moot), he still would not take any of these people to task. There will be no criminal charges filed against a soul in the Bush Cartel, none of the cronies in Congress are actually getting booted or sent to prison for anything whatsoever, and people like Kucinich and Paul will get the good old fashioned RParty Smear, with help of the media whores to paint them as crackpot mentals. Obama wants in too much it appears to do the right thing, win OR LOSE, he's shown he's willing to compromise the Constitution to be the first black president. That's not change, that's deja vu "with a tan" (stole that, sue me).
I think Carlin opted out before it took its death rattle, he saw this coming all along.
On a totally irrelevant aside, is it just me or does Rachel Maddow look amazingly like Fred Savage in drag?
justin @ 31:
And if they do lose, as they deserve to, they'll blame Nader.
What would Zeus do? @ 33:
NOTHING can be done next year....See my #24 above....Next time Congress can
consider is 4 1/2 years from now due to SunSet provision included in the passed Act.
Bud "Terrorist Fist Jab" Hussein @ 32:
If you really want to be an A** and influence people, do it like this:
"Um" ( all smarty-pants kidz start their snark with this)
THEN call him a "Troll" and then just end with:
Whatefer...
You can be assured that Republicans will be the first to cry fowl over FISA should Obama win the election. There is no way in hell they will allow this program to continue with a Democrat at the helm. They will become the most zealous born again civil rights advocates overnight accusing the new Obama administration of abusing the program to spy on them. You just know the Bush regime has been using it to spy on Democrats, you can bank on it. Republicans know this and won't allow this power to fall into Democratic hands. The whole program won't last six months under a Democratic administration, we'll return to the old FISA rules soon enough, Republicans and their Corporate Media lapdogs won't have it any other way.
And as far as using suits against the telecoms to ultimately pursue the crimes of the Bush regime, I don't think that would have ever happened anyway. Any such decision by a lower court to do so would inevitably be subject to appeals until it reached a sympathetic right wing dominated court.
Required @ 21:
Excellent point. Thankfully, it appears that there are some people who recognize that with Obama, that [alleged] agent of hope and change, all that glitters is not gold. It would do well to recall the wise words of a literary icon:
"Look at the tyranny of party- at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty- a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes- and which turns voters into chattels, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction..."
- "The Character of Man," Mark's Twain autobiography
J.T. @ 39:
I meant civil liberties, not rights. Sorry about that.
Brought it to this thread as it was more relevant, that's all.
Cheers
I can't NOT vote for Obama. I am very sorry I sent him money.. hard earned money, and should have gone with Hillary after all.. That being after Kucinich and after Dodd. But from this point on, I'm going to give my money to the Blue Dog Senate campaign. Hear that Obama? No more of my money for you..and believe me, I was generous.
Melissa @ 13:
Is it dark up there where your head is?
Yeah! Now, we are safer from terrorism.
It doesn't matter that we just legalized the same kind of shit that the Soviet Union used to do to its people.
It doesn't matter that this program doesn't target suspected terrorists.
It doesn't matter that our founding fathers are turning over in their graves with shame.
It doesn't even matter that our Constitution is now a worthless piece of paper.
None of this matters.
Because now we are safe from terrorists.
No worries - just end every phone conversation you have from now on with "I have a gun and am going to DC to kill President Bush" or "I am making a bomb and am going to leave it on the NY subway to explode during rush hour" and see how soon you get a knock on the door. If everyone who opposed this legislation does this, there won't be enough federal agents to follow up on every threat.
It would serve 'em right if they missed the one actual threat because they were too busy with frivolous ones.
Snowball @ 40:
Damn, I sure wish you were correct, but due to the SunSet Provision in the Bill that
passed today, I don't think that anything can be done by either Party for some 4 1/2
years down the road. At least that is my understanding of the Bill(and the SunSet
Provision) as laid out by both Senators Whitehouse(voting "Nay") and Senator Kit Bond
(voting "Aye"). Someone correct me if I am misinterperting or misunderstood the
SunSet Provision...please...
Not a peep out of the MSM that the majority leader of the Senate has described the Bush warrantless wiretapping program as illegal.
The previous FISA law was explicit that failure to follow it was a five year felony.
That would have had at least good chance of a mention in an earlier decade. Even in 1984.
PJ @ 46:
They were not liable lawsuits; they were fact finding lawsuits. The telecoms would not of been out a dime and NOBODY from the telecoms was going to go to jail over this. The whole purpose of lawsuits was merely to find out what had happened.
It is patently impossible for me to vote for Obama after his actions today. He was never my candidate of choice, even for the Senate, where his voting record, in my opinion, was still pretty abysmal. I, like many others who have blogged and stated, will stay home this November and not cast any vote.
I will also not contribute another dime to any candidate, except for those endorsed by the Act Blue group, which is comitted to pushing out the fake Democrats and bringing democracy back to the United States.
"I've got a bad feeling about this."
LibertyLover @ 2:
The checks in the mail. Uh huh.
Obama may need the FISA law to root out repug corruption.
So...were Mr. Obama to win the presidency, will they have to amend the oath of office to, " I really, really promise I will defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Really I will" ?
Obama just lost my vote.
Melissa @ 27:
It was ALWAYS illegal to wiretap without warrants. What in hell makes you think he won't break this one as well? Whatever pretense of oversight there is in the bill will be "overseen" by the same people that have been covering for him all along.
Even if they were to "fix" it, the damage has been done. Another crime bush got away with.
70% of the senate didn't even get to read exactly what crimes were committed and yet they voted to give immunity.
Obama has repeatedly stated that he was for the people not the corporations and yet today he protected the corporations and screwed the people.
Correction to my previous post.. I meant the "Blue America" coalition. My bad.
Hillary has balls; Obama doesn't.
Nuff said.
I'm voting for McCain because our Nation hasn't felt the pain.
It's depressing to watch the Democrats cave in once again. I cannot for the life of me think why they wanted control of the House and the Senate so much. This vote is another example - why on earth don't they stand up to King George and start reversing the damage he's done? Instead, once again they have glad-handed him exactly what he wants.
Is it because of AT&T's money, or just being afraid of being called "soft" on national security? How will we ever get the long national nightmare reversed, if the Dem's won't do it when they are in control ? And don't tell me Obama will "fix" it after he's in office. Obama is the biggest disappointment of all. He didn't wait one day after securing the nomination before "shifting to the center" - which means, I guess, forget the 4th amendment. I won't vote for Obama. If he's capable of this, I don't want him in office. Maybe we need a real third party to challenge the Republicans and Democrats.
So does anyone know offhand if there's been an "Obama Just Lost My Vote" dot com site out there somewhere making up a list? I'd be real interested to keep track of how many people would add their names as the months pass who had intended to but have decided not to after this (and whatever else he pulls). Probably not, but I had to ask - there's a website for practically everything else, surely someone out there could take it on!
Oh with weekly updates sent directly to the Obama campaign handlers...
doggiebobo @ 49:
There is, however, one other legal procedure that may be available...at least according
to a letter I received this evening from the ACLU. They are going to immediately, after
bush signs the Act, attempt to take the case to the the Supreme Court for a ruling.
Not really sure about that, but at least there appears to be some legal recourse.
This will not be "fixed."
If it has never been clear before, let it be known now. Our government is a vast criminal organization bent on the control and manipulation of all resources and commodities. This manipulation includes, but is not limited to the complete enslavement of humankind.
Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin just shit in their pants.
I supported Barack Obama until this point. I will not vote for him in November.
I disagree with Senator Feingold that once Obama is President then all of this will be fixed. That is the same kind of message we heard before the 2006 election. That if Democrats won the majorities in Congress, then we would see real change. And what have Pelosi and Reid given us? More support for George W. Bush and his failed policies. No one in the Bush administration (except for Scooter Libby) held accountable. Ignored subpoenas. A blank check for Bush's failed Iraq war. More soldiers dead or wounded. Now more illegal spying on citizens, made not so illegal anymore thanks to the Democratic-controlled Congress.
Enough. If Barack Obama really wanted "Change we can believe in", then he would not have voted for this horrible bill.
Senator Obama: you have lost my belief in you.
I just got off the phone with some poor Sprint/Nextel phone representative (most likely in not in North America) who had NO idea what I was talking about. He suggested I call the corporate office at 703-433-4000. That office is closed at this hour but I encourage everyone to give'm hell tomorrow morning for their evasion of the rule of law and subsequent shredding of (if not all, at least) the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of (what used to be) the United States of America.
I am not a religious person but, God help us all.
doggiebobo @ 38:
Hmmm 4 1/2 years. Odd amount of time. That would finish bush's term + a 4 year McCain presidency.
With all this Total Capitulation that Obama has been doing to Prove that he is MCcain light
i wonder if they will have anything to Debate about. Given the choice Americans will always
choose the real deal. Sorry Obama your not it anymore. PS. Mayby Hillary was right all along
about all he has is a speech he gave some years back.
Stop falling for the red herring. Even here you focus on the telecom immunity.
That's the BEST part of the bill (least bad).
Yes, it sucks, but they are diverting your attention by focusing on that, because it gets people mad but feels like its all about something in the past, so if it goes through, it's an "oh well" king of thing.
This bill MAKES WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING LEGAL FROM HERE ON OUT.
The bill ELIMINATES THE 4th ADMENDMENT! Sorry for shouting, but THAT is the real problem, and THAT is what we should be focusing on. Any amendment to the bill to get rid of telecom immunity is just a distraction. Bush would pardon them anyway, and even if he doesn't, if the amendment to strip immunity from the bill went through, we were all supposed to heave a huge sigh a relief and be ok with the bill LEGALIZING WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING.
When will the democrats grow a nut sack....
I was a HC supporter, I believed BO could be a good choice, but I was afraid he would do the "hey I can out repub the republicans" and he did just that today.
I will still vote for him on a lack of a better choice, but this election may boil down to two bowl of dog-shit and he smells the least.
Tequila @ 16:
What a load of horse shit.
BeeSting @ 71:
I "second" that load...
Tequila @ 16:
bullshit
It's official. The U.S. is now a legally sanctioned police state. That knock at the door is not your neighbor asking for a cup of sugar. It's the local Republican thought police checking to see if you are wearing your flag pin.
BeeSting @ 71:
You mean like Obama's pledge to filibuster FISA at least 3 times during the primaries?
You get spit on over and over and come back for more.
Change we can believe in my ass.
The contempt the media , both parties ( few exceptions ) and government have for the American people BURNS ME UP and watching CBS ' news" reinforced every everything .
WHERE was the FISA issue , 2nd to LAST FKN story less then 10 seconds just before a commercial and the Jon Bonet Ramsey contrived story ...was more then 10 X the time , with little CFR couric interviewing the Ramsey attorney , WHY ? I guess our privacy and Constitution are meaningless to the corporate media .
CNN framed the FISA issue in their TYPICAL contrived political theater pitting Obama against Clinton , while devoting more time to Ramsey and the Jessy Jackson over blown hyped controversy .
And thank you Professor Turley for telling the damn TRUTH , that Bush committed
many crimes , and with help of complicit politicians and media ...is getting away with it .
Voting for Obama is an issue for me.
I don't know if voting for him only extend the misery of this country or voting for McCain would force hand a revolution.
Just keep pushing and treading our rights until we had enough. When will the bough break?
Barak Obama. The Mendacity of Hope
BeeSting @ 71:
X2
Gotugye @ 74:
Exactly...It's official. We live in a piece of shit country no better than communist Russia or Nazi Germany used to be. Heil W and all the rest of the traitorous criminals.
harley @ 75:
Not really sure if spit is exactly the correct term...
If Obama wasn't a traitor he would have voted against it, then immediately gone all over TV and the internet and say that THIS is exactly why you need me as your president because I'm going to reverse radical bullshit legislation like this.
But alas....NO!
He's just another Harvard criminal who thinks he has some God given right to lead.
Yes, with approval from the Council on Foreign Relations no doubt.
madderthanhell @ 60:
I say you need to check her pants again....
The reason I say this is, where exactly did Hillary Clinton try to lead on this issue? It is one thing to vote correctly, which in this case, she did. It is something all together different when a senator doesn't try to push against the impending vote outcome.
Please don't try to exonerate Clinton for her lack of leadership on this issue...which seems indicative of her entire political career in the Democratic Party. She failed as a leader on one issue, one time and has not lead since that time.
From this day on I will fly my flag upside down.
Obama will never get my vote now, nor will any other candidate who supported this.
The argument that Obama voted for it yet plans to pursue criminal prosecutions is political blackmail at best. Like Obama is saying- 'Vote for me and I'll undue this, otherwise you'll have no recourse.'
This is a dark day- I hope Obama's supporters realize what has been done to all of us. Excusing or ignoring this vote makes you akin to the 29%ers who mindless support Bush.
did I hear that right? Hillary voted against FISA? I am hard of hearing so please clear this up for me!
Hilarious!
All those rabid Obama supporters are having buyer's remorse.
This shows what flowery language buys you.
You idiots should have stuck with someone who actually had something to say.
Nice work...
George Bush once said that the Constitution was just "a godamned piece of paper." Today Democrats in Congress confirmed his interpretation.
.
For those who say that the elections of 2008 are about change, I say:
No doubt. From America the Free to America the enslaved.
For those who say that the elections of 2008 are too close to effect a change, I say:
Change happens when "WE" make it happen. Change never arrives when you're busy waiting for it.
For those who apologize for Obama's lack of defense of the People's Rights, Freedoms and Liberties I ask:
Can anyone guarantee that ANY CONgress will EVER succeed at undoing this anti-Fourth Amendment and anti-Constitutional act?
For those who think that in 2012, it will be different, I say:
In 2012, the question will be, "Were you freer four years ago?"
.
redratio1 @ 87:
And prey tell, who is that "someone"?
Kucinich was someone!
Insidious this creeping form of facsism, to whic I recall the following:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
"We'll pull together after the election"
That is assumption they aren't going to steal the election using the newly found spying powers they were just granted.
Good luck on that one dems.
.
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS...
... And so on 07/09/08 THEY(sic) voted to undermine our Freedoms.
.
GPG @ 57:
Ditto. He's the lesser of two evils, but I don't have it in me to support ANY candidate who can't uphold the Constitution.
As a side note, I'm a San Franciscan voting AGAINST Pelosi this time around. Any democrats who abdicate their Constitutional obligations don't deserve our continued support. Period.
redratio1 @ 87:
Our resident Obama shills must be cleaning their knee pads to defend the next flip flop. The silence is deafening.
Pelosi as Speaker and Obama as President. This Administration is going to ride off into the sunset laughing the whole way.
"If the President does it, that means it is legal."
There's your Change. Believe in it.
Listen people, I know this totally sucks! But face facts! If McCain wins, we are throughly screwed! For those claiming they are staying home in November, DONT! The right will jump on it, and McCain will win. What will that get us? Doom for the middle class and war for years. Are children won't have a prayer!
Andrew @ 92:
UPDATED!
.
Obama comes out against a proposed FISA bill granting retroactive immunity, October 18, 2007:
Obama: "It is time to restore oversight and accountability in the FISA program, and this proposal -- with an unprecedented grant of retroactive immunity -- is not the place to start."
Bill Burton issues a statement, October 24, 2007, reaffirming Obama's position and pledging to support Chris Dodd's filibuster:
"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."
Campaign statement, December 17, 2007, further elaborating on this point in regards to a particular upcoming Senate vote on Dodd's filibuster:
"Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies and has cosponsored Senator Dodd's efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It's not clear whether he can return for the vote, but under the Senate rules, the side trying to end a filibuster must produce 60 votes to cut off debate. Whether he is present for the vote for not, Senator Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster."
Obama issues another statement on the FISA bill, January 28, 2008, saying that the dichotomy between civil liberties and security is a false choice:
I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.
Ever since 9/11, this Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand.
The FISA court works. The separation of power works. We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight, and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend.
No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people -- not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.
That is why I am co-sponsoring Senator Dodd's amendment to remove the immunity provision. Secrecy must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens - and set an example to the world - that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient.
Obama issues a statement endorsing the bill, saying that security needs are more important this objections, June 20, 2008:
"It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives -- and the liberty -- of the American people."
Obama speaks at a press conference after announcing his support of a FISA bill containing retroactive immunity, June 25, 2008 -- and says that phone company issue doesn't override the need for security, in blatant contradiction of his January 28 statement:
Well, the bill has changed. So, I don't think the security threats have changed. I think the security threats are similar.
My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/obama_fisa.php
Every single politician that voted for this bill in both the House and Senate should be voted out of office the next time they run for re-election. And actually, the people from each state should begin immediate recall elections to stop them from being allowed to "pretend" to be a voice of their consituents, because obviously they are not.
If we allow this to stand, allow them to remain in office and allow this to just become yesterday's news, then there are no true Americans left in this country.
P.D. @ 98:
It doesn't matter who the next president is. The 2 leading candidates have agreed on fucking us over. At least McCain will get it over with quickly.
The USA Patriot Act
The War Commissions Act
The John Warner Defense Act
The FISA Act
Why? Why do you think our government has SYSTEMATICALLY taken all of your person freedoms away. Totally against their oaths to uphold our constitution.
Because it's all going down. We are bankrupt. Our debt is beyond calculation. Amurika is a huge SUV that's already run off the cliff. And we're waking up in the back seats going, "what's happening?" We are walking corpses.
Now I can see why Pelosi was calling for an end to the primaries in May.
So our Bill of Rights only has 9 articles instead of 10 ...
guess everything is getting leaner
BennyP, the reason the Repugs keep winning is because the Repug voters don't care about the news, or intelligent reason or Democracy. They only can hear 'Lower taxes, God, and less government'. And they haven't gotten that. But they don'tcare. The Democrats and Liberals and Independants beleive in equality and fairness. If McCain wins, we will egt nothing. Oue country is in sad shape indeed.
Obama, you've already lost my donations because of FISA. If you vote for offshore drilling, you've lost my vote.
doggiebobo @ 72:
Exactly. That post was a stinking pile of confabulation.
More delusional thinking that brought you Obama's win.
Put down the friggen kool-aid already and wake up.
P.D. @ 98:
I've got news for you...when Americans are presented with the choice between Republican and Republican-lite, they're going to stay home or go with the real deal.
Obama lost legitimacy today, by his own vote. I'd rather not see a republican win, but voting Democratic really doesn't buy a whole lot these days. We need fresh candidates who actually stick to their ideals. Republican-lite will never sell.
redratio1 @ 87:
after listenin to the obama droids for a year my head hurts!
Jimbo @ 109:
VERY well said.
doggiebobo @ 90:
We still have Ralph Nader...........
A long-time advocate for the people and a defender of the Rule of Law. Independent and has not been tainted by corporate influences.
America needs to get smart and perhaps WE need to make some serious "Change" from the typical TWO PARTY SYSTEM (dems and Rep) that is not much different from one over the other.
Perhaps America should consider an Independent President with a Democrat Majority House of Congress. Eliminate the spineless 110th Congressional members in the next Election who failed to uphold the U.S. Constitution and/or bowed to the criminal activities of the Bush/Cheney Regime and those who voted to continue to fund the Iraq War.
Ralph Nadar has an untarnished reputation of serving the WORLD for more than four decades. He has been an avid advocate for consumer protection and a patriotic voice and defender of our U.S. Constitution. It is no surprise that HE is very much feared by the Corporate CEO for his long history of making sure products are safe for consumers.
redratio1 @ 87:
The only reason Hillary voted "no" is that she's out of the hot seat. Her votes on Kyl-Lieberman, the Iraq war (that took her 20 debates to say that she was wrong) tells how she would have voted had she been our nominee ..
So spare me.. at least I felt good for a few months, which I never would have with Hillary.
Proud American @ 112:
untarnished? How much Brasso are you using?
clytemnestra @ 113:
Can we all just stop the juvenile Hillary vs Obama bull? We have a nominee, and he's ignoring his base. "But Hillary..." doesn't mean squat at this point...
RIP America July 4, 1776 - July 9, 2008
Jimbo @ 115:
Then stop with the "rabid Obama supporters having buyers remorse" . . because it's a set up for the response I gave.... I will still vote for Obama
I'm just not voting FOR Obama anymore
I am voting AGAINST McCain.
When the Reptiles held the majority in the Senate they tried to pass a bill similar to this but failed.
What do we need a Democratic majority for? It is worse than Reptile control.
clytemnestra @ 113:
I'm glad you had a great moment of peaceful delusion.
you want this fascist government to end, ok...so stop paying your taxes which pays the telecom, the black magic conjurers of death who are making a killing off us from all the wars that have been created , the bend over and take it without lubrication petro corps who have gotten 100 of billions over the last 50+ years from us. there telling us who matters to them and it isn't us flesh and blood beings Its time for payback.....time to kill the corporation, de-charter every last one of them, immediately.
After today's charade and power-grab by the Bush White House with the complicity of the Democrats, I feel compelled to say there is only one politician out there who truly deserves your vote. His name is Ralph Nader.
This man has devoted his whole life to fight for the rest of us, giving up his own comfort, and in the process accomplishing monumental things that we now take for granted. I really am convinced it will take decades, if not centuries, to truly grasp the magnitude of those accomplishments, and to see the big picture of what Ralph Nader achieved.
If there was ever a moment in time when a leader like Ralph Nader could really shine, this was it. If there was ever a moment in time when a leader like Ralph Nader was sorely needed, this was it. Unfortunately, the Enemies of Freedom and Democracy, the Enemies of The People, the Enemies of Progress, are winning, darkness is descending, and Ralph Nader's star is dimming.
Every now and then, I hear people talk about the Founding Fathers, Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin. And I can't help but think, what if Nader had been the product of another era? Maybe he was meant to be. Maybe he was late by about 230 years.
swampfox @ 110:
I am still stuck in July 2006 how Pelosi was going to "will drain the swamp", "will bring the troops home", "will start impeachment proceedings", etc.
I still remember how she was hugging the House gavel like a giant penis. Guess who got screwed?
Ha here is the picture. http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01LeeHEd4rf1e/610x.jpg
With all that money you would think she could afford better plastic surgery.
harley @ 122: I still remember how she was holding the House gavel like a giant penis. Guess who got screwed?
Wish we could fix typos.
Its time to deport these more real than us persons back to hell. I am so angry...........
.
The Republic is naught!
.
Obama=Cowardly, no backbone, no principles, jellyfish, flip flopper. Sorry, I'll sit this election out. This man does not deserve my vote.
It's funny how people are disapointed, but not outraged with Obama's vote for this bill. Incredibly this has been a huge issue among progressives but now that a democratic senate, including Obama vote for this betrayal, everyone acts simply discontent.
I got news for you, I'm not voting for this hack, and the idea that most progressives are quiet about it, really disgust me.
I am ashamed to be an American right now. I hope for the best, but expect a really bad outcome from this ..... but boy, do I hope I am wrong.
I too am going to have to decide now whether the time I spend voting is a waste of time or not.
Where on earth are the give me liberty or give me death politicians now? Not here in America that is certain. Obama just shit on us all, and I too will not send any more money his direction.
I've always like Russ Feingold, but I think his hopes for "President" Obama are borderline delusional. Sure, as president Obama will help Congress fix FISA. Uh huh. That's what presidents do -- they look for ways to limit their own power. And Obama, who originally sold himself as being different from other politicians, now looks like the same old thing.
It would be great if Feingold were right. But I'd be surprised if he were.
The latest poll rated 110th Congress approval rating only ................9%...........
This a a margin error of 3% plus or minus.
which means the approval rating is could actually be either 6% or 12%..........
Bush's approval rating is the lowest in the history. But his approval rating is still above congress.
It is clear that they are intentionally ignoring the people eventhough the PEOPLE is clearly unhappy of the direction the nation is heading AND clearly does not approve of the JOB performances of the elected official collectively.
They ARE giving the WRONG messages to the public. They are clearly... in many ways... telling the PEOPLE ....WE DON"T CARE WHAT YOU THINK........WE HAVE THE POWER....AND WE WILL DO AS WE PLEASE......NOT AS YOU SAY or THINK, people.
AMERICA must unite and stand up to the insubordinations of PUBLIC SERVANTS.
OBAMA influenced by the Clintonites is losing his message of CHANGE.......
This kind of Politics as usual..... in this serious times IS NOT......IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE BUSINESS AS USUAL.......
AMERICA,................fight for your freedom and your rights.........or lose IT..!!!!!!!
It is being taken away from you while you sit passively for change to happen.
For all the jerks that voted for Mr. Obama, Mr Change Agent, Mr.Yes We Can, you all sold out out. This could have been the time to really change things in Wash DC. Instead, all we are getting is more of the same. Well,sorry to have to say this, but "A Lot of us Told you this would happen".
harley @ 123:
Wish we could fix typos.
Oh , I don't know, Hugging worked better for me.
FISA-Patriotidiot ACT
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R. 6304 )
Vote Number: 168 Vote Date: July 9, 2008, 02:47 PM
"Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Bill Passed
Measure Number: H.R. 6304 (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 )
Senator Bill Nelson, I think your service has been good for Florida & I think that is what got you reelected. But I think you should explain your Yea vote on this one , just like Obama had better.
We are so sick of all this Terrorist rhetoric
& the scare tactics in politics today.
I ain't afraid of any freaking terrorist & I know there are many other Americans that are not either. By over reacting to our civil liberties & the trampling of our beloved constitution we are letting them terrorist know that they have WON!
I hope you will explain your game plan to
return the powers of congress & the president the way it was BEFORE 9/11/01.
If ya'll fail, then this is what we should all expect in the near future.
Let me tell you a Fact that a old timer once told me.
"Mine & your Granddaddy didn't have nothing to help or protect them." (Sounds like the early 1930's)
"Then our daddy's came along & fought hard to make a better America for their children."
....."But The Next Generation ain't gonna ask for what They Want, They are just gonna Take It !"
All this I see coming true. When the baby-boomers, which were a lot of the L.S.D.-orgy-hippies that have now grown old & turned out now to be Bible Thumping Hypocrites that are worst than the parents they rebelled against in the 60's start thinking they will retire or if they wind up in a nursing home, This Next Generation will strangle them to death with leaving this country in all this debt & chaos.
"America promotes a Nation of UnderAchievers !"
The Next Generation are not lost on this
fact.
They grew up hearing their parents say:
"Tune In, Turn On, & Drop Out!"
It just has a little different meaning in 2008.
" We have presidential elections every 4 years, only because the Constitution specifies that we must. No president can overrule this."
"We have a Congress able to impeach a president only because the Constitution specifies that they have that power. No president can overrule this."
"We have freedom from warrantless searches only because the Constitution specifies that we have that freedom. No president....oops!"
"So, just how sure is anyone about the first two paragraphs above?" "That is the issue we are discussing here." "If a president can overrule the 4th amendment he can overrule any portion of the Constitution, just as Bush has been doing by little bits and pieces." "You just can't go for being just a little bit pregnant."
Proud American @ 130:
How is this an influence of the Clintons? Barack Obama is the spineless traitor. Clinton vote AGAINST the fisa bill.
BeeSting @ 132:
Oh , I don't know, Hugging worked better for me.
Got the pick for that one too: http://www.foxnews.com/images/251647/9_65_010407_pelosi_boehner_gavel.jpg
"There's a new sheriff in town". OK, I am in town -"impeachment is off the table". Time for a new sheriff.
Alice X (Chomsky Nader) @ 118:
No shit! The democrats hate freedom more so than the Republican!
Bizarro world just took a huge hit!
#127- People are OUTRAGED at Obama. We got taken by this man, and I demand that he withdraw his name as the democratic nominee. It is evident, this man is a huge FRAUD!!
My letter to Senator Barrack H. Obama:
.
nyguy @ 134:
Oh just let them have their fantasy world.
I guess the "they hate us for our freedoms" line has been taken off the table.
well i never sent the bum a dime, didnt vote for him, cant say i had any expations of him because i heard all his speaches at the beginning of the primarys, jesus the guy was telling you hes a prick and nobody listened , i said this time next year you wont be able to find five people on here that will admit they voted for barack obummer!
At this point a ficus plant would be our next president.
I will no longer be supporting or voting for Barack Obama. He has cast his pearls with the swine.
MS @ 121:
I completely agree.............
Too bad many of the YOUNG VOTER don't know enough about him. This is where WE the people who knows him can do our part on educating these YOUNG PEOPLE.
I don't think they know the accomplishments he has tirelessly done for people.
He was responsible the safety of many product that we use. He was responsible for having seat-belts for planes trains and automobiles. He was responsible for infant car-seats. Safer Cars standards....to name a few.
Many people from the sixties on forward has forgotten all that he has done.
I TRUST HIM MOST than any politicians to have the know how to protect the WORLD. He is the most I would trust.........to be custodian of public TRUST.
harley @ 140:
No, it's there among the clutter...
LOL
.
Change...
From America the Free to America the enslaved.
.
I think many Dems knew about the illegal wiretapping program while it was happening, and did nothing,.. they support Bush on this because they are just as culpable with knowledge of the crime.....they voted yes, for self preservation....... and of course the real bottom line is that all the Dems know illegal and criminal activity occurred, investigations andimpeachment would be the eventual outcome, but the Dems will not go down that road for political reasons.....
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 145:
Great minds. I was thinking taking impeachment of the table 2006 then freedoms off the table 2008.
Look, the most he could do in the Senate is make a symbolic effort to stop the bill, and it wouldn't change the situation. He's frequently spoken out against it, and tried to stop it, but it didn't work out so well. It's a Beltway thing, not something he can influence in our favor.
I, for one, am now abstaining from voting for president (I'll vote in other elections). I cannot stomach voting for Mr. Obama or anyone who would support what is, effectively, the first of many passes into holding both the Bush administration public sector and complicit private sector cohorts accountable. This is really quite disgraceful and I fear for the future of my children.
It is too bad our country is not a multi-party parliamentary one, as I feel we, as citizens with supposed inalienable rights, would be much better served.
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