Baby steps, baby steps.

There will be right-wingers still listening to the nutbag global warming deniers who might now quit burying their heads in the sand over this. But, make no mistake, the crisis opportunists are already looking to control, capitolize and profit off of whatever energy source we use.

They would charge us for sunlight if they could figure out how.

Pickens is a puke but if he is behind helping us get off the oil and try a new source then we need it. These things have a way of working themselves out and this whole alternative energy thing needs as much as a jump start as it can get.

He's spending a ton of money running tv commercials about his plan. I'd like to think he's just being a good samaritan but with people like him, you have to be on your guard at all times.

It's really simple folks. He lobbying for TAX CREDITS!!! If his idea is so good, so economically viable why does it all depend on him getting TAX CREDITS? The press is so stupid it misses the forest through the trees.

He's only as green as his money.

pissed off patricia @ 6:

He's spending a ton of money running tv commercials about his plan. I'd like to think he's just being a good samaritan but with people like him, you have to be on your guard at all times.

Exactly! He's in it for the $$. But if he can play well with others it could be a good thing.

"0.0143%"

We're at the point where you can't have anything worse than the current model.

One Year Wonder @ 14:

We're at the point where you can't have anything worse than the current model.

That's what we said at the end of Bush's first term. *rolleyes*

And his idea of switching out natural gas powerplants to cars is sort of silly.

Agreed, although I'd say it goes beyond sort of silly into full blown silly.

I find it interesting that he moved his natural gas to powering cars when the correct move would have been to take it out of the coal power plants and just remove that much coal off the table. Substituting green power for coal would also help in the next generation cars - which are clearly going to be hybrids for the majority of the next decade - since the plugins (FINALLY due out in '10) will be doing more of their fueling from the grid instead of imported oil, which would also be reduced.

It's all about WATER. T. Boone's plan has been to pump the Ogallala Aquifer water to thirsty cities like Dallas. Thanks to to the TX legislature, it is much easier for him to get eminent domain to run the piplines and the powerlines above it.

Swiftboater jerk.!!!!!!!!

It's also about wind. He's put $10b of his own money behind the creation of the largest wind farm in the country. Further, his plan calls for the extension of the tax credit for wind farms. As stated above, he needs to extend the right of eminent domain he's garnered for his water claims for the powerlines to run the juice to Dallas. Ingenious and certainly motivated by greed, but at the same time also focused towards stopping the flow of US capital to the middle east. It is what it is.

Did Deadbeat Boone ever pay on the bet he made about Kerry's military record? No. T Booner is a lying phony.

Geez, i do not like the extreme right wing at all..Reading these comments make me wonder if the left is not as scary as the right...Who cares what the motivation is, as long as we are moving in the right direction? Some of you sound like the left's version of Fox News. Any idea or statement that comes from someone on the right is immediately slammed. This wonderful two party system has created an invironment where both sides are frightened the other might have a good idea! I have no idea if Pickens ideas are solid, or if he has some master plan to destroy us. I just know i am listening if someone has a plan for so future suck ass presidents won't have to hold the Saudi King's hand...Lets make the Bush family the last official oil pimps for the King!!!!!!!!!!!

T. Booner also lied on NPR that none of our politicians did anything years ago when they could have. Jimmy Carter tried to but then Pickens help elect-all-oil-all-the-time Reagan in '80. Pickens is a lying phony.

Well, you know that this country is and has been doing really well under the oilmen, so I'm all for doing whatever Mr. Pickens' needs me to do so he can become a trillionaire.

I wouldn't trust this guy any farther than I could throw him.

Especially after his grandiouse touting of that "Million dollar reward" on the Swiftboat thing,
and then his clumsy attempt to move the goalposts.

Pickens is somewhat of an enigma to me. I study the Peak Oil phenomenon, and he clearly agrees with the analysis. But then I found out what a big contributor to Bush and the Republicans he was / and / or is. Seems like he just wants to make a buck out of the movement.

Which is OK, I guess. But the dilemma is to get off OIL, not just FOREIGN OIL. That's the problem with Global Warming, and I'm not sure how that fits into his analysis. Looks like he wants to make some big money before the old coot dies?

Interesting that he talks about Natural Gas. I even thought about converting my car to natural gas in the past.

The problem is, just like Peak Oil, there will be a Peak Natural Gas problem as well. Some people think it will hit only 5-10 years after Peak Oil. Now I see that he owns a lot of Natural Gas stuff. One of the core problems is, like he said, 75% of Americans own cars, whereas 4.4% of Chinese own cars. We need walkable, livable communities, and better public transportation and rail. I don't think he gives this aspect of the problem any attention.

You can't make a strawberry shake with a pile of shit.

It all sounds so good but I don't trust that bastard. He wants to be the Rockefeller of Natural Gas, wind and Texas water supplies. One thing has motivated that scumbag and it is greed. His motivations have nothing to do with protecting Americans. This is what Lonny posted in comment 21, and it deserves to be read by anybody that thinks Pickens is motivated by the reasons he claims.

Alternative energy sources? Let me paraphrase. "We gunna make and manipulate the price of all sources of energy so you can only be havin it under the control of me and my buddies."

He means we need a new round of OILMEN

Bush just spoke to the cameras about the passage of the FISA bill. He tried to hide his happiness, but you could see it was there. I never came so close to knocking my fu*king tv over as I did then.

Say what you will about Pickens, he is above all a businessman. He knows that the golden goose is the American consumer, and that the cost of living is preventing that goose from laying any more eggs.
The price of commoddities is not only strangling the American consumer, it is crushing the world's economies. Go to Yahoo Finance, click on World Indices, and peruse the charts. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the declines are stark.
The only ones benefitting now are the investor class, who have the means to exploit declines as well as booms. And since the means are now more spohisticated than ever, expect them to push this decline as far as it can go before they reverse their positions and leave everyone behind again. The gulf between the rich and everyone else will be massive at the end of this cycle.

He was, and still is, fully behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq and makes no bones about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYb8Wm6-QfA

ysbaddaden @ 53:

He was, and still is, fully behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq and makes no bones about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYb8Wm6-QfA

True but totally irrelevant.

We need to modernize our society OFF of oil. That will make his feelings about Iraq moot.

Gerald Gibson @ 55:

ysbaddaden @ 53:

He was, and still is, fully behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq and makes no bones about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYb8Wm6-QfA

True but totally irrelevant.

We need to modernize our society OFF of oil. That will make his feelings about Iraq moot.

Get off of oil? How dare you? We haven't even used it all.

President PNACcio @ 51:

Say what you will about Pickens, he is above all a businessman. He knows that the golden goose is the American consumer, and that the cost of living is preventing that goose from laying any more eggs.
The price of commoddities is not only strangling the American consumer, it is crushing the world's economies. Go to Yahoo Finance, click on World Indices, and peruse the charts. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the declines are stark.
The only ones benefitting now are the investor class, who have the means to exploit declines as well as booms. And since the means are now more spohisticated than ever, expect them to push this decline as far as it can go before they reverse their positions and leave everyone behind again. The gulf between the rich and everyone else will be massive at the end of this cycle.

The "investor class" do not have the power themselves to expand declines. Only the government has the power to do such a thing(since the government uses force to achieve its objectives). Of course the question is, why are the price of commodities rising? Unfortunately people don't understand that "big oil" doesn't create the oil prices, the market does- and when the market uses a currency called the UNITED STATES DOLLAR to buy and purchase oil- of course oil is going to skyrocket because the dollar is plummeting. Our extremely expensive domestic AND foreign programs(wars), have led to this. This would've happened under a democratic or republican leadership since both sides are ok with spending money they do not have, although bush definitely made it even worse.

its a no brainer people around the world are suffering from high prices- because their currencies are either pegged to the dollar, or most of their reserves STILL remain in dollar denominations. So as our currency falls so does theirs. Enough of the blame on the "rich" its an enormous waste of time- the blame should be on those who control both the rich and the poor, and that is our congress, the white house, and the judicial system.

Blue Buddha @ 15:

I think he's one of the few oil men who see the writing on the wall and realize that it's the end of cheap oil ... his idea of switching out natural gas powerplants to cars is sort of silly. Powerplants burn natural gas at around 50-60% efficiency, while for cars it's somewhere around 15-20%. It would make more sense to use electric cars plugged into power from powerplants, even if the transmission lines lose almost half the power.

You are right about how a lot of proposals don't seem concerned with maximizing efficiency. Ethanol, Natural Gas, Biodiesel, Hydrogen - all have a questionable aspect of how much extra cost their inefficient implementation & use will blunt or diminish the palliative effects these approaches have on energy costs to consumers. Improving centralized power generation and availability by switching to cleaner & maximally efficient alternative approaches seems to me to be the smartest approach. At the same time people like Pickens with a few billion extra dollars to invest in massive wind projects and increased natural gas production (or solar towers in sunny places, or wave power in watery places, or geothermal, or some s0rt of gasification process) can help put a few percentage point dent in oil demand - a wave of increased incentives for individuals to make whatever difference they reasonably can afford to in energy demand & consumption should be the theme of US energy policy.

Being more energy efficient means more money in your pocket - plain and simple - that should be the rock stupidly easy rationale grasped by everyone. Don't drive a more efficient car/change your lightbulbs to CF/LED, insulate your hot water pipes & heater & windows & attic, turn off your computer/TV/appliances from an 'anti-vampire' switch, get netmetering & buy a rooftop solar/small windmill/passive geothermal system for your home because you want to save the fucking whales or because it tickles your new-agey Gia believing fuzzy hippie sense of moral superiority but because it is an investment in the quality of your life - it saves you money over time. Money is something everyone could use a little more of, from the crunchiest 'I bicycle to work' (and never miss an opportunity to remind everyone of their eco-virtuousness) neo-hippie to the white middle class yuppie-fabulous SUV owner who wants to run over every critter he sees and burn down the rainforest (or whatever) if Rush Limbaugh says its a good idea - everyone could use some money - that is an idea that would sell. Saving money is almost good as making money when it comes to unavoidable things like energy consumption and cost - the government has been partnering with many utility companies for decades to promote conservation, make loans and grants available for homeowners to decrease energy cost/consumption buy increasing efficiency or even building/installing their own small scale alternative energy production equipment.

The national policy should be to promote programs that make the most sense - from the big super projects that build new and more efficient power generation facilities to the local level programs that partner utility customers, the government, and homeowners in an effort give people access to small scale energy saving measures.

The rich in this country are beginning to see that their Dumb Ass in the White House is so screwing the this country that even they will not be spared from it's collapse. Their to proud to admitt they were wrong so their branching out on their own.

There is only one source that can be regarded a base load, has no foot print and is sustainable, opposed to wind, solar and hydro and that is, geothermal.

Even the ninjas at MIT have proved it, though it's been squashed and ignored by the usual suspects :

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/future_geothermal.html

The stats are staggering.

A forward looking country that is doing it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Iceland

"The energy is so inexpensive that in the wintertime, some pavements in Reykjavík and Akureyri are heated."

This is all a scam to open up the U.S. for offshore drilling and to drill in ANWAR.

Wow.

Seems the minds are mostly heavily bigoted here today.

Germany - with public funds - subsidizes both solar and wind power production and as a result in 10 years has diminished fossil fuel consumption to less than 50% of domestic electrical demand.

Do they care whether its Pickens or "dingleschrumf" who makes the money in the deals? NO

We are so wrapped around the axle on people making money (unless its me) that we see anyone making money as evil by default.

We also seem to love to critique those who have money to invest - and make the big bets. Let's get real. This is one of very very few countries where wealth trickles down as far as it does. If you want examples where it doesn't, go to all but 10 countries in the world (Sweden, France, Canada and a few others).

If you think Pickens shouldn't get wealthy - then form a company and do it yourself!!!

If you think the Government should build the wind facility instead - then name just 1 reasonable sized country that is doing so successfully. Almost all countries in the world today - except those that are so economically destitute don't own their nation utility companies - so therefore don't own their generators.

If Pickens wants a government subsidy then good luck to him, He is still investing more than I am.

Because in the end, if he builds the wind generators with government subsidy and we reduce our foreign dependance in the same percent as Germany has, then I for one would by him dinner.

....and I'm not a Republican...

My comment in #70 refers to post #52.

70 Annoyed Canuck

Isn't hedge-funds where so many of the speculators on oil are coming from?

T-Boner Shit-Pickens is the lowest for of life, this planet has to offer. I would not trust him as far as I can fly, and I cannot fly a stroke. He could not care a tinkers damn about the environment. He is pushing to open up the Alaskan Wildlife Reserve. I know a great deal about the AWR. A great amount of environmental activists, fighting the original pipeline, were centered here in Seattle. In 1974, I moved to Fairbanks to work on the pipeline. The lure of the money was very appealing. At that time, I was taking home nearly $900 a week. We did 6-8 week stints, where food and lodging were provided free. I mainly worked at a flyspeck called Livengood, where their was a huge pipe yard, and an even smaller place, in the Brooks Range, called Chandalar camp. The U of A did field excursions to the Wildlife Reserve, and I was fortunate enough to go on one. It was utterly breathtaking. Their were herds of reindeer, elk, and others, which were in the tens of thousands. The oil people took an oath, this area would never be touched, the chances for an environmental disaster were far too great. Beside the Exxon Valdez spill, there have been two major failures in the pipeline (which we know about). But, they occurred in very remote areas, and did not get a great deal of media coverage (surprise). Yet, the amount spilled was larger than at Valdez. The pumping stations are hundreds of miles apart. There are shut-off valves in between. However, from the time it takes a pumping station to show "low pressure", to when a crew can be flown in to shut it off, is enough to release a huge amount of oil. I am going by memory here, but I think the transfer rate is 5-10 thousands barrels per minute.

So, now they are trying to sell to idea, that drilling in the reserve, is an answer to our problems. All people of good conscience should fight this tooth and nail.

Will it work? It will probably not meet expectations, but it's at least a shot in the right direction and his plan might get close. That's why private enterprise can make things happen. Government cannot act fast enough. And yes, there is financial incentive for him to do this. The energy market/situation is finally making it possible.

T. Boone Pickens has found a way to market good old greed to us. He has found a way to sound green and be one of the most powerful brokers in Texas. He is marketing green energy. But what is under the surface is an water deal
amazing water deal.

He is taking full advantage of owning power utilities. And, really, there is very little wrong with his logic. Drive through north Texas and realize it is a great place for energy production. Just think if Wyoming thought this way. There is nothing wrong with making money marketing alternative energy, particularly in unoccupied areas where the wind blows all day.

But he WILL take advantage of his energy transmission buried line corridor to pump the water of the Ogallala aquifer down and ship the water where he can sell it in Texas. And he needs to do it before groundwater protection districts are formed and can stop him.

rojo

5by5 @ 78:

They're just worried they are going to lose their death-grip of control over the rest of us, when we begin to realize the value of DECENTRALIZED MICRO-GENERATION OF POWER, and we won't need them anymore (not that we "need" these greedy war-profiteers now).

So they're trying to jump in and poison this hopeful market before the little guy can establish himself. We screw them. because fact remains that ultimately, we WON'T need them as we shift to renewable sources, and they will go the way of the dinosaurs they spend their entire lives digging up.

I wouldn't trust T. Boone "Swift Boat" Pickins as far as I could throw him.

All hat, no cattle.

And if you read his little "plan", this is just a shuck-and-jive move to drive people towards more nuclear, coal, and natural gas usage anyways.

Classic bait and switch.

Pickins is also buying up all the water rights in that half of Texas, preparing to make people die of thirst if they don't pay him outrageous prices for water. Control, control, control.

Nothing has changed. The man was a scumbag yesterday, and big surprise, he's a scumbag today too.

You didnt watch nor read the info on his site did you? Or are you just lying?

Gerald Gibson @ 80:

When it is TRUE it isnt "A typically myopic american view of the world" ... lots of people dont like it but America HAS and still IS a leader in many many areas... who else has ever walked around on the moon? But I guess mentioning that is just another "typically myopic american view of the world"...

The leader in many areas ........ national debt, military force, most obese race, largest consumers of resources, worst educated in the western world ..... indeed I'm not saying that there aren't record that are being held at all.

Mentioning the moon isn't a myopic view of the world, though it is a typical american gusto and BS defence, to attempt to detract from the point and put up some kind of smoke screen. So that would be a typically ignorant view of the world which in itself comes from ignorance, which is myopic, so yes on both counts I'd say.

Though the irony of your answer being "we're #1 ra ra ra trying to infer everyone else is shit" ....... which was exactly what I was point out, wasn't lost either.

Cal @ 26:

Johnny2Bad @ 9:

Cal @ 3:

Pickens is a smart bastard.

He's figured out an angle.

Yep. He and all the soon to be out of work Daniel Plainviews are looking for a way to keep selling us energy pumped from wells that they own through pipelines that they own out of "gas" stations that they own.

The answer is not new fossil fuel sources. Its de-centralzed power being generated from that big burning ball in the sky that we all own.

Wind farming is so old it's date back to the BC/E era.

I'd try selling farmer and the likes on that first and then try to sell them on puting solar panals on their barns and out buildings.

Germany is well on the way with solar. Check out this on Nova.

On the face of it isn't this how capitalism is supposed to work? An entrepenuer has the vision, wherewithall, and drive to see a need and try to fill it. Hopefully getting rich in the process, or increasing his fortune if he allready was rich.
The part of it that's so fascinating to me is, here's an oil guy giving lectures on things we've been hearing about since the first earth day, not only that, when it comes from him it sounds so much more real,(does he know something we don't")?
And almost gives the alternatives to oil more weight. But really what it all boils down to is until oil stops being the cheapest way to generate BTU's nothing else will top it for power generation in all its forms.

Lonny @ 21:

It's all about WATER. T. Boone's plan has been to pump the Ogallala Aquifer water to thirsty cities like Dallas. Thanks to to the TX legislature, it is much easier for him to get eminent domain to run the piplines and the powerlines above it.

Yes. Yes. And, Hell Yes. This IS the reason he is involved in this plan. It is all about the water. He has come out and said so. He has a strong interest in Oklahoma also. He has donated tens of millions to Oklahoma State University, and the president of OSU is a republican shill. This will make it easier for him to get whatever legislation is needed for his plans when he sets his eyes on the sooner state. He is after water, and has stated that water is the future of drilling in the USA. The aforementioned aquifer is the largest body of fresh fossilized water in North America. It is rapidly being depleted by pivot irrigation. For those that consider the midsection of the country as fly-over territory, those green circles that you see whenever you fly over us is the result of said irrigation. And, now that bio-fuels and ethanol are ramping up, there will be more wasting of this fresh water source. Parts of the Texas panhandle have seen the Oogallalah aquifer depleted by over 50% over the last 50-60 years of pivot irrigation. It took millions of years for this fossilized water to accumulate, and we will waste through it in no time if Pickens gets his way, and if the silly notion of food for bio-fuels continues by pumping the aquifer dry.

Hmmmmmmmmmm...tips on energy conservation by a guy that did everything he could to get the Bush regime into power is like taking a class on Jewish Culture taught by Adolf Hitler!

yeah, after giving $3 million to the Swift Boaters and failing to make good on a $1 million payout to anyone who could disprove the claims of the Swifty Swine liars, I'd suggest we all just ignore his commercials and his call for anything.

He's like the rest of the Fascists... he'll do anything to confuse YOU in order for HIM to make more money. And yes, he's a fascist... having worked all his professional life to get in bed with government to make him all the money he can choke down.

Fucking greedy bastards! When will they have enough?

Justin @ 93:

Fucking greedy bastards! When will they have enough?

That's why they are squirming in their pants about an Obama Administration ...

Sweetwater TX
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=sweetwater+texas&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&...

U.S. Power Grids

It is important to note that there is no "national power grid" in the United States. In fact, the continental United States is divided into three main power grids:

The Eastern Interconnected System, or the Eastern Interconnect
The Western Interconnected System, or the Western Interconnect
The Texas Interconnected System, or the Texas Interconnect.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/de/us_power_grids.html

make no bones about it, when this country weens itself off oil (like it will kicking and screaming in opposition someday) the new alternative fuels will be owned by these same energy corporations. They will make sure of it. There will be no new companies running energy for the public. The T. Boone Pickens of the world will own the new energy. That is why it is taking forever, with roadblocks popping up daily. This is America. The rich stay rich and the poor stays poor.

Lonny @ 21:

It's all about WATER. T. Boone's plan has been to pump the Ogallala Aquifer water to thirsty cities like Dallas. Thanks to to the TX legislature, it is much easier for him to get eminent domain to run the piplines and the powerlines above it.

Most people in the Panhandle of Texas are very leery about Pickens' plans to lease their land for wind farms after their experiences with him buying up individual water rights in order to bundle them. He does not care if the water in the aquifer is drained for use by people in far away cities, thereby causing suffering to those in the Panhandle who depend on the aquifer already. (The aquifer does not recharge except by groundwater/rain and there's not much of that in the Panhandle. It is actually being depleted every year even without Pickens pumping any of it out yet.) He doesn't care about the environment. He is only motivated by money. He is a visionary in that he sees problems in the future and seeks to capitalize on the solutions to those problems. Observe him, learn from him, but don't trust the bastard.

This is one angle that should be used. The national security angle is a big one and basically everyone agrees that we should stop shipping our treasury to Saudi Arabia and Iran.

If our country had any kind of energy policy, wind would surely be part of it. We should also update our grid, invest billions in solar research and start building nuclear power stations.