BREAKING: Hamdan convicted on five counts of supporting terrorism
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Aug 05, 2008 11:00am
Osama bin Laden's alleged driver, Salim Hamdan, has just been convicted on five counts of supporting a terror organization. Considering that the Pentagon planned on holding him indefinitely regardless of the verdict, does it really matter all that much?
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CNN:
A U.S. military jury found Osama Bin Laden's former driver guilty of five counts of material support to a terror organization in the September 11, 2001, attacks.
In a split verdict, jurors found Salim Hamdan not guilty of conspiracy to aid a terror organization, in this case al Qaeda.
The trial is being held at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility where he is being held.
Prosecutors allege that Hamdan, who was picked up in November 2001 in Afghanistan, overheard conversations about 9/11 and had other information that showed he was part of Osama bin Laden's inner circle and aided and abetted the attacks.
Hamdan faces life in prison and his lawyers are already planning to appeal.
The National Security Network weighs in:
HAMDAN VERIDCT: We Waited Seven Years For This?
"Today’s verdict does little if anything to advance American security. The entire process raises fundamental questions about the administration’s disregard for our constitutional values and may well do America more harm than good in the court of world opinion. It took seven years for the Bush administration’s military commissions system to get its first conviction for a crime that is regularly prosecuted in federal court. And when it did, it was a driver who even the administration acknowledges did not participate in the planning or execution of any terrorist attacks. Surely there is a better way to protect America and bring terrorists to justice while adhering to the constitutional values that have kept us safe and strong for 200 years."
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Chimpy and Co are now hot on the trail of a real player : al-Zawahiri's gardener
Reading the NYTimes article about the gitmo trial and it struck me as I was reading the explanation of how the driver was being accused of war crimes because he broke war rules: How can he be charged with war crimes, if he is an enemy combatant? I mean if he meets the criteria of being eligible of committing war crimes, doesn’t also meet the criteria of receiving Geneva conventions protection?
And just to sum up how badly the bush admin has handled this as a life long NY’er (city, county & state) who experienced 9/11 personally, I have to wonder if this guy is guilty or not. Seriously, for all we know this guy was a cab driver from Milwaukee spending the night in a drunk-tank when Cheney put the word out they needed a patsy. How would we know?
Get it? The bush admin screwed up so bad I find myself being sympathetic to some scumbag who may have been somehow related to perpetrating 9/11. Goddamn you bush!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Kangaroo
Not sure what to think about this conviction...on one hand, he WAS with Bin Laden for years. May well have been privy to some info...on the other hand...seems like he was convicted on thin evidence at best, and the timing of which just reeks of GOP/Rovian tactics.
Why did this take seven years???
Next best thing to Osama!
seagull.girl @ 5:
its election season!
So they've managed to convict OBL's driver. Isn't that how it always works out? Some low level schmendrick takes the fall while the real criminals skate free.
If there are ever any war crimes tribunals as a result of the invasion of Iraq the Whitehouse chef will probably get the death penalty.
I feel so much safer knowing that Bin Laden's fucking driver is behind bars forever!
Hopefully, soon they'll nab his tailor or his barber.
Give me a fucking break.
Verdict first, then trial. Off with his head.
The Boy Fuhrer NEEDED a conviction before he heads for Paraguay.
I would feel safer if Cheney put a condom over his head.
This guy with a life sentence? Nah. Not so much.
its_me_ya_krazy @ 7:
Ask a silly question; get a silly answer!
That term "supporting a terror organization" can be spread out awfully wide, if you ask me.
What if it turns out that your personal lawyer is a terrorist? You have been paying him money in fees for a long time. Are you guilty of supporting a terror organization, without your even knowing it?
This has every ingredient of being scary as hell.
Did I do something to get banned? None of my posts are showing up.
So now they have the first trial and conviction of someone remotely involved with 9-11 and the anthrax killer case is done. Think the repubs will crow about this from now until Nov. 4?
You would have to be in a coma not to see this dog and pony show for what it is.
pissed off patricia @ 15:
Half the country is, p.o.p.
Funny how two high-profile cases (Padilla, Hamdan) have now amounted to little more than conspiracy charges on the grounds that the defendants associated with the wrong people, and not the grand plot that supposedly has justified indefinite detention and enhanced interrogation.
The truth is clear - Bush and his minions are cowards, more than their lip-service to actual military service could ever prove, and the reason they keep selling fear to the American public is that a fearful, cowed populace makes them look more heroic, more courageous.
Bush said something like, I don't really know where OBL is...and we haven't spent much time looking for him....
Well of course not, we have his driver so now OBL can't go anywhere without him and perhaps this is why we aren't looking for him...
yet for me...bushco hasn't shown ANY evidence that OBL had anything to do with 911...which only brings me back to...when are we going to get the report from the 911 commission indicating the reason for why WTC7 building collasped completely on 911...remember this was the third building that fell that day...and why?
I've asked both of my states senators at least 5 times...yet I have still not eceived any answer...not even a reply...what are they hiding
This statement from the Pentagon really underlines a disturbing fact. That there should have been convictions in this case - for kidnapping.
If you take someone and lock them up against there will, the difference between an 'arrest' or other legal form of detention and kidnapping is NOT that the former is carried out by a government or agents of same. The distinction lies in the fact that due process is followed and adhered to. It's generally accepted that to retain any veneer of respectability the rules and procedures followed have to precede the person's being taken into custody.
The Military Commissions Act is unconstitutional on its face - a clear case of ex post facto law. Hamdan has been 'convicted' of a charge that didn't exist when he supposedly committed crimes in a jurisdiction where US law did not hold sway, and tried under procedures and in a court that was created ad hoc. There is nothing about this that passes either the smell test or the laugh test.
Worth every million. Striking a blow against terrorism one chauffeur at a time.
SadButTrue@19
"lock them up against THEIR will" Geez, Louise!
Well I would imagine that after this "decision" the lawyers at the Hague will be taking the names of the drivers for bush, cheney, rice, rumsfeld,and the rest of our homegrown war criminals.
SadButTrue @ 19:
Are you an attorney? Sure sounds like it and your comment makes a whole lot of sense.
rusty @ 18:
OBL is dead.
Wow, if they start having trials then before long it'll be like we live in a nation of laws again.
Spock @ 6:
bwahahhaa, good one!
As the White House and Pentagon has said most of the prisoners in Gitmo are innocent but we have held them without charges and due process so we have tortured, raped and drugged these innocent people we have to have a fake trial. Look what happen to Hicks who we kept for 5 years and we knew he was innocent. We drugged him tortured him raped him and because the PM wanted he home we let him go. But he can't talk until Bush/Cheney are out of office. We are the Terrorist and the real Axis of Evil of the World. As we see Bush travel to China to tell that country to give Human Rights a chance, the United States is committing Human Rights Crimes. We took a sick wanna be young man name Jose Padilla and tortured/drugged him knowing he had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack it was done by the US/Saudis. Yes but to cover up our lies we had the fake trial as jurors saw a brain dead man who wasn't like that before he went to US prison. Now this man was an American Citizen who was tortured until now he's brain dead, but still innocent. We don't care about innocent any more we just like killing and torturing those who don't look like us. People of color are our enemy. Now those are the people we now have to borrow money from since we're in a recession but we still hate them. Even the biggest Racist of them all Grover Norquest married a Middle Eastern woman so she could get her citizenship papers. Look Grover couldn't find a date and he was getting old. So what does a true KKK Racist do well he looked for a woman of color like all true KKK members. Grover was 49 years old with no hope of getting married as I guess White woman found his gross looking and dirty but then for a US citizenship papers a woman would do anything even married Grover. Most of the Republicans who are racist speaking really are looking for black or minority woman. Ok most wont admit it but they will go looking after dark. Check out the US Chief Justice and his pillow mate as it's not the so called wife. When Justice Roberts had that attack while on vacation ( without his wife). There was a young woman who didn't want to be seen at the house. Roberts got checked out and rushed back to the unknown woman waiting. As for the wife she was not only a no show but never bothered to check on her so called husband. The American front works as Roberts looked like the perfect American family with a wife and two kids. Only don't believe what you see as it was all made up and yes people were paid. Now those two children will be raised in a school and never know until their grown that they were the cover story for the Chief Justice. At lease Roberts doesn't have to hire prostitutes like others.
Taxi to the Dark Side.
This is so sad on so many levels. I think it has more to do with gw's driver being taken into custody for war crimes after he's left office. Easier to sentence the driver to life than to sentence gw et al.
I know I'm sounding like a broken record but the republic is finished if this is the best it's citizens can do.
Whip up the conspiracy machine!
has anyone noticed that Habbush received $5 million from the US and then was spirited away? Ron Suskind called the payment to the infamous member of the deck of 52 "hush money" or that it kinda' looked that way. Someone else will post the exact quote. And then there's Mr. Hatfill of the Anthrax Attack who just received $5 million as well. Of course he didn't have to write any letters to get his money; it was all done through the courts and justice dept. The same Justice dept. that has questionable hiring practices.
And now, the OBL's driver will go to jail for the rest of his life!
I feel so much safer now, snark!
I hear that Osama´s florist will be the next one on the block...
seagull.girl @ 5:
Because it took them that long to make sure everyone was "playing for the team". Then they had to suppress testimony, dump some judges who looked like they might not "play ball", hide their own wrong doing, avoid any kind of actual scrutiny, hope that people had mostly forgotten that they haven't got any actual terrorists in custody and then wait for the election so they could "convict" the "terrorists" just in time for dumbya to tell the voting morons that he and his reslug masters had succeeded [whatever that means] and a vote for them was now mandatory.
Kangaroo courts take a long time when there are still people left who think that laws and rules and actual guilt should be involved in a trial.
This is not a jury of peers' decision, it does not meet our own standards of justice.
You're falling into the trap, folks.
A terrorist supporter was convicted. Cheer it and ask why was that so hard and why haven't they gotten the big fish.
But to pooh-pooh it as many on our side are doing all over the net makes us look weak. We give the right "evidence" that we want to "lose" the war on terror (TM) when we shit talk stuff like this.
Our side "won" on this. A legal process was put in place to convict these criminals. It's taken 7 years for these idiots to do what we've been saying all along.
Lordy Lordy! Now, because I pay taxes, I can be busted for supporting a terrorist organism, My taxi driver here in Kampala can be busted and sent to jail for life for giving me a ride. The prostitute on the street corner that I gave a piece of candy to can be busted for accepting it. I wonder if a terrorist orgasm is outlawed...
I hate walking!
Peace All!
Cui Bono?
I call bullshit! This whole "trial" is a fraud, just like the government of the U.S.
Whoo hoo... I'm SOOOO impressed.. Seven years and what kind of money??? And at the end of the day.. we're busting the chops of essentially the taxi driver??? Ya, BIIIGG coup....BIIIIGG Whoop!! You military Gitmo boys should really feel proud of yourselves.............
Ya know, the Neuremberg war crimes trials dealt with big shot nazi military leaders and what was left of Hitlers political inner circle and it didn't take seven fucking years, it didn't trash our constitution in the process, and it didn't dick around with the little people.. It didn't end up throwing the limo drivers in jail for life over Hitlers transgression....
I don't know what this guys real deal is.. I'm sure he's a full blown follower of Islam but big fucking deal... I can't help thinking this shit feels about like going after Capone for all his crimes and then settling for busting his mommy for driving without a license and then giving her life for that evil 'crime' and her association with her son. This is just more of the same bizzarro bullshit we've been getting from this administration since day one....JD
Jo @ 24:
OBL is dead.
Or, rather, there's no concrete proof that he's alive, and that includes the on-again, off-again focus on al-Qaeda, al-Qaeda Iraq. He's trotted out when they need to keep their comatose loyalists from rousing from their Karl Rove Stupid Ray*-induced trance.
* Otherwise known as FOX News.
Next up on charges of terrorism, warmongering, war profiteering and mass murder, Bush and Cheney.
Our side “won” on this
OK, I'll bite. What did we "win"?
Sincerely,
A "concerned" "citizen".
Buggy Ding Dong @ 34:
Don't make me laugh. What war on terror? There is no war on terror. If there was we would be fighting in a whole lot of other places. This whole mess in Iraq and Afganistan is about OIL.
Is this the "Lugnut Changing Terrorist" guy?
Now maybe Nancy Pelosi will impeach the pilot of Air Force 1
(Takes plastic sheeting and duct tape down from doors and windows)
Thank God that terror thing is all over with.
They CAUGHT Osama's driver !! Dam, they're good.
rusty @ 18:
Indeed... what ARE they hiding?!
Buggy Ding Dong @ 34:
"weak"? seriously?
no, this military tribunal is more akin to a third world military dictatorship show trial.
The rules of the tribunal system at the U.S. Navy base appeared designed to achieve convictions, Navy Lt. Cmdr. Brian Mizer, Salim Hamdan's Pentagon-appointed attorney, said before the verdict.
"I don't know if the panel can render fair what has already happened," Mizer told reporters as the jury deliberated.
Hamdan's attorneys said the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted by any civilian or military U.S. court, and that interrogations at the center of the government's case were tainted by coercive tactics, including sleep deprivation and solitary confinement.
the use of torture as admissible evidence, a military tribunal, pentagon-appointed military jury, etc.?
this is what you want people to cheer for? scary
no, "our" side accepts the right's bogus 'weak on terror' charges, which could easily be refuted without folding to the pressure of the right, and this is the result. no, this is a failure. this is not to be cheered.
Is there anything this fucking administration has done correctly in 7 years? Is there anything this administration has done that the Founding Fathers would have been proud of? This country is no better than the Soviet Union of the 1960s. Even Alexander Solzhenitsyn bailed out of here and went back to Russia. Ironic isn't it?
I feel so much safer
Buggy Ding Dong @ 34:
So we should carry the water of a bunch of corrupt, incompetent liars so they feel better about their achievements? Yeah, right. You're preaching the standard Democratic defeatist line, praising ineffective, worthless measures.
Our side didn't win...can you say Kangaroo Court?
They needed a conviction and lied, cheated and stole to get one -- not to mention torturing a suspect. Americans have long been proud of being a nation with a highly regarded legal system. Not anymore.
Can't wait for the war crime trials of Bushco because Karma is a bitch!
May the criminals who are running GITMO receive the same standards of justice at future war crimes tribunals, where they will the ones on trial.
It is a war crime to put a POW on trial.
Jo @ 16:
I don't think this is something to be proud of. One god damn conviction in 7 years. And even this guy was a nobody. What was he? The guy who checked the oil in Bin Laden's motorbike? No, I don't think that yoiu will see the Republicans saying "See, aren't we good?"
Guilty for material support for a terror organization?
When do we haul Charlie Wilson into the court room for his "material support" to the Taliban (who supported Al Qaeda)?
My grandfather fought, and killed people in WWII. He is not guilty of a war crime, he killed who he had to, and didn't kill who he didn't have to. He was bound by the Geneva Convention when he captured POWS. He was aware of a great many war plans in detail that he was never involved with directly, but that led to the death of thousands of people on all sides. We happened to win that one. He was an important part of that war machine and war is hell.
This schmuck was about as connected to the attack as Hitler's cleaning lady. He was a driver of perhaps an old Toyota truck of a left over Soviet GAZ hauling around a few AK47s (that are as common as bottled water in the third world). The man has a 4th grade education. He may have known who he was driving, that Bin Laden was planning an attack.... but he didn't get details unless Binie's management style is totally flattened.
The man he didn't get a memo saying, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Targets in the United States." Are we saying that a dude who kept a car in a cave polished up to transport a dying old man from one tent to another is smarter than the United States Government and as guilty in the same category as, say, Joseph Mengele? What about the people who actually got the memo? What are they guilty of?
This Administration is guilty of not finishing the real war and rather starting a war that is a fraud. That is a war crime. The bombs we use are a war crime. Winning a war or waging a war and killing a great many people to do so is not a crime in of itself, it is how those involved conduct themselves.
Will those subcontractors at McDonald's be prostituted when the world community final tries the GWB government? I was standing there when the towers were hit. I want to see justice done. But not at the expense of our Constitution.
As soon as they get Bush's proctologist and Cheney' urologist the war on terror will be won.
Dr. Britney Hussein Matt @ 48:
So do I. Does anyone know what the color coded terror alert level is at now?
He's still only bin Laden’s alleged driver? Well, at least they didn't convict him of that.
The Bush Administration didn't want all of those captured in Afghanistan to be "prisoners of war" with rights, so they branded them all "unlawful enemy combatants" which is a term that used to be reserved for spies and saboteurs during times of war. By doing so, the Bush Administration hoped to exact revenge for 9/11 in the guise of "justice". They have failed in their goal miserably.
Was Mr. Hamdan the driver for Bin Laden? We don't know. Was Mr. Hamdan a member of Al Qaida? We don't know. All we know is that he was picked up at a military checkpoint during a time of war.
If he is truly a terrorist or a supporter of terrorists, then the civilian courts should have come to that conclusion, not some jerry-rigged "military tribunal" whose soul purpose was to garner convictions using "evidence" no civilian court would ever allow.
Revenge is not justice and revenge dressed up as justice is still a pig with lipstick on.
Convicted of being the driver for someone accused - but never convicted, except in the media - of plotting terrorist attacks.
A show trial to cover for the real perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks.
Someone's gotta take the fall for that.
That's why they've been using techniques guaranteed to obtain false confessions.
sean @ 59:
Liberals founded America.
Love it or leave it yourself.
omg, did i stumble upon some marxist website here?
Yes, we are Groucho Marxists.
So, go on and stumble back where you came from and don't let the Constitution hit you on the way out.
The sad thing is that this "trial" is actually symptomatic of the current state of "justice" to be expected by all from the Federal Government. There are now so many laws out there that anyone the government really decides to "get" is as good as convicted: for example consider the Siegelman case. Preventing this sort of excess is why the framers enshrined trial by jury as a fundamental right. However, the Federal Judiciary does its best to eviscerate that right. Defense arguments and evidence are suppressed so that rather than bringing common-sense to the process, the jurors are reduced to rubber stamping the government's desired outcome.
This is perhaps why one administration is leery of making criminal investigations into the previous one: they fear that this precedent will be used against them by pursuing baseless but successful prosecutions as payback.
sean @ 59:
this is a tacit admission that the far right has no respect for the constitution. you claim to love america, yet you support its destruction from within.
congratulations, you have embarrassed yourself
sean @ 59:
The "Carter disaster" revealed that Carter's attempt to start weaning us off of oil almost 30 years ago , was amazing foresight by the man.
BTW
Why do you stupidly try to tie hating cancervatives into also hating America ?
You morons ARE NOT AMERICA , nor what America truly represents. You are mentally feeble turds who should all be deported for cheerleading a moronic and illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation , and the worst president and administration in US history who have deemed that the rule of law in this country is malleable and flexible based upon their whims and actions........You un-American asshats should be jailed in Guantanomo ; not individuals deemed "enemy combatants" by the worst and most dishonest and stupid president and administration in US history.
theWalrus @ 62:
I'm just grouchy at times.
Cuba and North Korea? Holy crap, Republicans just wished they had that kind of government here (one party rule). Liberals would be more at home in Sweden or some other Scadinavian country. C'mon... if you're going to insult us and try to make us leave, at least throw some country out there that at least share or uphold some of the same ideals as progressives and liberals.
sean @ 59:
LMAO!!!
Wow...the idiocy showcased in this post is amazing...take a look at the current administration sean...does the FASCIST mean anything to you? Look it up dude.
And that's your answer to everything isn't it? "ya don't like this country? then leave it?"
If we DID leave, you inbreds would destroy whats left of this country in a matter of years.
And with your cowboy "diplomacy", ( that's worked out well hasn't it?) you conservatives would have every country takin a number to get in line to bomb your regressive asses.
Why don't YOU leave asshole? And let the adults clean up the mess you kiddies made?
I'd much rather see Bush and Cheney behind bars. The real war criminals.
Another sad day for America. Why am I saying this almost every day? :-(
sean @ 59:
Your $1.98 check from the McSame campaign is in the mail.
now, shoo along.
The first conviction in America's show trials. Remember when we used to denounce the Soviet Union for this type of sham trials? When did the USA become the USSR?
Jury of his peers? This guy isn't even a citizen. I don't agree with this administration's idea of unlawful and immoral perpetual imprisonment, but he had his day in court. It was evident he was a co-conspirator even if he didn't drive the plane or commit terrorist acts himself - his hands are still bloodied. Did he go to the authorities and warn them of future terrorist acts?! No, he stood by silently as Bin Laden plotted. So, do I feel safer? No way, but it's about time there is some due process. You might not agree with the decision or the mechanics of a military tribunal, oh well.
sean @ 59:
For the use of "dumbocrat" and marxist, I think you should be awarded three McGrampa points. Keep on troll'n and you will earn a shiny tire pressure gauge in no time, my friend.
Speaking of Cuba and North Korea, why haven't we shocked, awed and occupied those countries yet? Especially North Korea. They have WMDs you know. But it's almost as if they don't have any oil or something. And as for Cuba, Dubya loves him some baseball and Rush loves cigars. So pass my message along to your higher-ups and lets get'r done.
Conservativeslayer @ 70:
When the Cold War had ended and we realized that we were wrong about the Soviet military power.
"He who fights monsters must take care lest he become a monster. When you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
We've become the thing that we hated the most.
liberalMcTireGaugeO'JusticeNmoderation @ 4:
Yes, I'd say we've pretty much convicted the guy of being Osama's driver. Somehow, I think it would be very surprising if someone were actually able to point out a law that says being a driver for Osama bin Laden outside of the United States is a crime.
sean @ 59:
what are you going to do now after the bush disaster?
i'm just curious since you have been blessed with this unique intelligence
Fascist States of America @ 68:
And the original wording of the US War Crime and Torture laws would have only applied to Bush, Cheney, and everyone down the chain of command who participated.
BUT .. in 2006 Congress retroactively editted those laws to apply to (you got it) the people they had already been holding at Guantanamo for several years.
pete @ 43:
Bingo.
I've seen pictures of Osama riding a donkey. That donkey is fucked!
Mark N. @ 74:
Thanks to the Bush administration this nation is now the "bad guy"...what a legacy.
I fell so much safer, knowing the United States is protecting me from a chauffeur.
Symon @ 72:
And sean...if ya REALLY wanna get ticked off at us "marxist dumbacrats" go check out the thread about Toby Keith...maybe you'll find a post there that indirectly applies to you.
Enjoy!
SFnomad @ 80:
Seriously though....chauffeurs are vicious, especially when roaming in packs...
What kind of vehicle was this guy driving in the mountains?
Sean@59;
Oh is that what you think ought to happen ehh???.....Well, here's my witty retort dude... Why don't you take your neocon braindead rightwing ass and go straight to HELL!!!! It's no nothing jerkoffs like you, who assisted in putting the moron and chief and his puppetmaster into the WH with your clueless votes, who bare a large responsibility for the shithole our nation now finds itself in....
I don't usually go personel on this site with other bloggers, even shitforbrain trolls, but your post dude... At this stage in the trainwreck??? ... Fucking ridiculous.... Just go back to the kool-aid trough numbnuts... You are beyond help................JD
7 years and all Bush and his gang have convicted is a chauffer. I hear they're working on nailing Bin Laden's butler and his gardener next.
Surely there is a better way to protect America and bring terrorists to justice while adhering to the constitutional values that have kept us safe and strong for 200 years.”
Sure there is. We can let McDungball steal the next election and proceed to piss on the constitution for the next 8 years.....
sean @ 86:
Wow...funny you CONS citing the bill of rights...seems when others who don't think like you CONS try to use it, it's bad...but when you try to use it, it's good!
Wooo a fancy college degree...how very nice for you...and here I was thinkin you fascist trogs were anti-intellectual, bible thumpin jebus freaks. You sure showed me.
What'd ya use that political science degree for? Toilet paper? Seems ya don't have much book learnin for a college boy...but you probably skated through with a C- average just like the Failure in Chief...
Your parents must be proud.
As Hamdan sits in prison the criminals of the Dumbya Regime that tortured him will be out playing golf and appearing on Fox News. The war criminals in this regime are a lucky bunch, justice has been perverted to never include them in obvious crimes against humanity while they punish small fries in their phony war on terror. The Dumbya Regime is as evil as any evil dictatorship is history, they just haven't murdered as many people (yet).
sean @ 86:
You make disparaging remarks questioning everyone's ability to read here ; do you realize you back one of the most unintelligible dimwits to ever walk the planet , much less occupy the Oval Office ?
BTW
Your political science degree is almost as impressive and appears to be as valid as Chimpy's diploma from an Ivy League school..................
MCMetal @ 90:
Exactly...a degree in political science does NOT make you smarter than anyone here...in fact I don't believe you actually have one.
Because I am pretty damn sure that someone with a degree in political science would know that this blog is nowhere near "marxist".
Fact o' bidness....someone with a degree like you CLAIM to have probably wouldn't brag about it. They'd probably come in, school us poor illiterate heathens about politics and move on...unless...that's it! You don't have a job! You either got canned from McBains campaign for being an incompetent suckup, or you just have such a shitty personality, no one will hire your know-it-all punk ass.
NEXT!
Jeezy Kreezy, people. You can attack the administration and their incompetence and point out that had this process begun in this manner (at a minimum) 6 years ago, and done what Kerry said in 2004 etc, WITHOUT shit-talking the actual conviction.
Bush should get no credit for a low-level flunky getting convicted because that is all it is. But some on here and on other sites are essentially saying this guy is innocent.
As for "democratic defeatist" bullshit, I say bullshit. You can condemn the administration and show how pathetic they've been while also saying we're glad we finally convicted one person with some association with OBL. Hell, use it to bring up the 7th anniversary of dipshit getting the memo. Hell, use it to bring up "wanted: dead or alive/I don't know or care". The point is to turn this stupid argument back on the GOP, that their stupidity and criminality made it where it takes 6 years to have even a minimal trial and minimal justice on the guy who cleaned the windshield for Osama. Had we been doing things the right way all along, we would have the bastard already.
That's what the GOP would do. Any "victory" is used as a discussion for the overall failure.
I'm saying, politically, this is a huge opportunity to blast away at Bush w/out looking like you're siding with this chump.
VietVet67 @ 83:
Probably a Hummer.
Yay!! Now we can kill him!
Nice that the verdict was figured out before the trial.
That way the kangaroos don't get confused.
Anybody surprised that the entire anthrax case rests on the word of a drug addicted "therapist" with a record?
sean @ 86:
Yes, it is amazing that people would respond negatively to being called nutcases, marxists and dumbocrats. Much less being told to leave the country. Go figure. I expected you to be greeted with flowers.
BTW, when did the U of Cinci Polly Sci. program start incorporating the inner nuances of fascism?
sean @ 86:
Definition of irony: Conservative citing the bill of rights when defending the Bush administration's show trial of a "enemy combatant" - the very definition of a constitutional black hole.
Buggy Ding Dong @ 92:
Who is claiming to being on this "chump's" "side" ?
Isn't the foundation of law in the US based upon the premise that "everyone is innocent until proven guilty" ?
Hasn't it been well documented that this judge allowed hearsay evidence and information gathered during allegedly coercive interrogations ?
Is that what anyone would call "justice" ?
Are you insinuating that anyone should trust the Chimpy administration on any topic ?
Did an anvil fall out a 4th floor window and bash you in your head ?
Buggy Ding Dong @ 92:
For some reason you think there is a reason to believe anything this administration says. Whoever he is, he deserves a trial. He wasn't even allowed to see the evidence presented against him.
Sean@59
Wow, you have a degree from UC! The Bush has a degree from Yale! Great minds think alike! Yeh! You can go back to your room in mommy's basement and take your nap.
As to the farce at Gitmo, remember that Military Justice is the ultimate Oxymoron.
A puppet court finds a driver guilty.
I guess I feel safe now.
Sean@59 would rather free republican convicted criminals like Scooter and selectively enforce laws against those he does not like.
Boston Blackie @ 99:
I thought the ultimate oxymorAn was jumbo shrimp...
Don't believe any of it.
Buggy Ding Dong @ 92:
You're apparently missing the part where the 'conviction' is nowhere close to the scope of the original charges. That changed because they had insufficient proof, which is the foundation of our legal system. And that's in addition to the stories that drop out of the trees like Suskind's latest information on a wholly manufactured letter to justify the war.
Conceding the point before the battle has been fought is the reason the Democrats routinely get trounced on the issue of national security. They couldn't say, "warrantless wiretapping is against the law," they waffled. They can't say, "torture is against the law," they waffle and buy into this last-minute ticking time bomb horseshit.
And now you want us to cheer a conviction that is the product of more GOP stupidity? Are you completely oblivious to the fact that we're building a house of cards by violating our own laws as well as international accords that we are party to?
What planet are you from? The GOP discussing something? That's a laugh.
No, we're just siding with the corrupt, incompetent liars running the show.
Chris from Ohio @ 102:
The shrimp isn't jumbo?
sean @ 59:
What us marxist nut cases like are the principles upon which this nation was founded - the freedoms and protections granted in the Constitution, as well as the system of checks and balances which your buddies Bush and McCain have chosen to ignore and/or circumvent.
And then you completely sabotage any valid point by turning to the 'if you don't like, why don't you move to X!' Nyah! Nyah! Pfffbbbbbtttttt! Ptui! Yes, Sir, that certainly put us in our place. I'm trembling in awe of your towering intellect. Not.
Do you feel safer with Osama's frackin' chauffer in custody? How does this 'conviction' advance our ability to combat terrorism, or catch Hamdan's boss (assuming, of course, that he's even alive)?
ok libs,i'm off. i have to admit it's been fun working you socialists up into a frenzy,lol. p.s. don't forget to inflate your tires just like barack HUSSEIN osama says!
sean @ 106:
Frenzy? LMAO...not even close, ya fascist fuckstick. We just called you on your weak bullshit. And you couldn't even respond without spewing more bullshit. Take your political science "degree" and kindly shove it up your ass.
sean @ 86:
Gosh, you really put us down! We can't hole a candle to your superior higher education. BTW, you kind of sound like an elitist mentioning the political science degree. Are you a latte-drinking GOP elitist by any chance? I certainly hope not.
Voice your opinion all you want, it's a free country. Just don't be surprised if it gets torn apart here. Of course, you knew that would happen when you posted it. You wanted a reaction, didn't you?
Your arguments are tired and irrelevant. You are a relic of the past.
You bore me.
pissed off patricia @ 14:
<a href="#comment-817
"Supporting a terrorist organization" could mean giving them physical support (as in joining them to fight) and giving them financial support. But I imagine the Bushies could widen it to include those who demand the U.S. government give terrorism suspects a fair trial instead of the rigged sideshow we have just witnessed, because then you would be speaking-up for people who are already guilty in the neocons' eyes.
sean @ 107:
Have a nice day while changing McStupid's Depends for him , you GOP/Chimpy ball mongering ignoramus........
MCMetal @ 111:
Hehehe...he's a schlongmonger!
Adolf Hitler's driver only served a year in prison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Kempka
His f#$kin' driver.
His F#$kin' driver.
Jesus. Haven't these idiots done enough damage to the reputation of western civilization? Maybe Bush really does never stop thinking about ways to harm America.
Nothing is going to change because a large portion of Americans support torture and sham trials. They love the idea of the 'bad guy' getting his genitals electrocuted, even if that guy turns out to be innocent later on. We have a large amount of sick people in this country.
And America takes another step toward being a Banana Republic -- our own very public kanagroo courts
so who will they charge with supporting terrorism next .. the widow who sold bin-Laden 5 apples?
Here is a two-minute video on the Hamdan case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6m9y8tzKs8
OBL driver is a war criminal- this opens the gates to prosecuting ALL of BushCo's members, staff and caterers for war crimes.
actually bin-laden has been held at a black site for years ... they will announce that they "just" captured him 4 weeks before the November elections
I haven't seen a breakdown of the votes. They only needed 4 of 6 to agree to convict...
sean @ 107:
LOL u so funny and
ignorant
Car and Driver, NASCAR, AAA, many automiotive serivce garages, gas station posters (like ones at Shell I've seen) and the government's own website about increasing fuel economy in your vehicle tell you to keep your tires properly inflated.
Some of us have known this for 20 years .. it aint news and your well . . . an idiot
pissed off patricia @ 14:
What if your President / Vice President turns out to be a terrorist? Waht if you voted for him/them? Will all registered Repugs go to jail - do they have that many cells in Gitmo?
clytemnestra @ 121:
guess I'd better fix that before the GOP SPelling police come out ... cuz it's really ALL they got
"Some of us have known this for 20 years.... it aint news and you're, well .... an idiot
pissed off patricia @ 24:
I agree that this man should not be charged in the US or any of it's territories for any crime he may have committed while in a foreign jurisdication. This is a sham! But we all already know this. The man was probably just trying to take care of his family and this was a great opportunity. He was no way bound to provide America information about OBL. The world should take this as an insult. In addition to the recent TX execution. If you are traveling abroad, be careful.
Thank God this guy is off the streets. Now Osama Bin Laden will have to walk!
Jo @ 42:
Buggy: You got that wrong. We were waiting for them to follow the legal processes we already had in place for a very long time. The fact that they kidnapped and locked up these people at Gitmo and then passed the Military Comm. Act to make what they'd done seem legitmate should have been your first clue.
You are also right, though - some of us have been waiting 7 years, at least, for the real idiots to be impeached, indicted, convicted and imprisoned
This is all about the election in 2008 and rallying the red necks around the flag pole.
You can not believe a word Bush, Cheney , Rice , Rumsfeld , Rove , Rove and any of this administrations "HIT-PERSONS" say.
But , it is ok if people don't believe their first statement don't worry, there will be 100's of more their BS coming to drown you with it's volume.
Bush/Cheney have committed corruption & crimes then Germany did in 1920-1940's except for the amount of deaths , but just give McCain and the republicans enough time , while they sing their little jingles and dance their little two steps.
McCain statements of BOMB BOMB BOMB while dancing with the elite and famous.
Bush statements of Mission accomplish & Bring them on ,( of course Bush and his war hawks were hiding in U.S. while our military was fighting his criminal war for his war contractors and Oil companies.
Bush also stated No WMD over there , No WMD over there , No WMD making jokes while the republicans smiles,, This happen in one of the private meeting while Bush smirking like the chimp he is.
Do you know that with the help of the Bush Jr.'s policies he has help his father's fortune along with Baker , Saudi Arabia , Dubai , UAE and other eastern countries receive most of our wealth and power.
Remember the time when Bush setup the contracts for giving Dubai our government security contacts for our port along with other contract of our port security and operational work.
Guess just who will also benefit with his dealing with the "foreign powers which some were involved with real terrorist) daddy bush , Baker and other corporate friends of his.
The Dubai which Bush Sr. and his Carlyle group has moved their corporate base are really benefiting by the financial buyouts they own and their partnership with Dubai and other countries.
Bush Sr. , Baker , UAE , Dubai are now partners in their ports deals , financial dealings and if you follow the trail all of Bush/Cheney's policies it would show you the reasons for all his illegal and underhanded dealing which have bankrupted us while them make a killing along with their foreign partners.
"Most powerful nation on earth", U.S.A., locks up chauffeur for life.
Yeah, America is really going to "win" against Muslim terrorism.
The Bush/Cheney Rethuglicans are such losers.
They murder possibly millions of civilians and are looking to attack Iran.
One might think "war without end" (and the murderous Bechtel/Halliburton/GE profits therefrom) are THE intent of these criminals.
This verdict was a set up to show how fair the tribunals can be -- acquit him on the serious charge, but convict him on minor charges. This way they don't have to let him go, and if they had acquitted him on all charges it might be difficult to explain why they had him in jail for six years. Now that they have shown how fair they can be, God help the poor bugger who is tried next. Guilty on all charges and sentenced to death before January 2009, so George can be in charge and get front row seating and bragging rights at the execution.
Charlie @ 126:
Oh, I forgot the world record Exxon/Mobil Iraqi oil profits.
Schwerpunkt @ 55:
Let's say he wanted to tell the US about the attack.
From where and to whom would he place the call?
There is no 911 emergency number in Afghanistan.
I don't know if Salim Hamdan was anything other than a chauffeur or not, but I DO know that I no longer trust my own government to pursue justice over vengeance - or the cheap scoring of political points. The Bush show trials are nothing more than a grotesque farce in an attempt to appeal to the basest of his base.
Anyone who works for Bush/Cheney in any capacity from chef to chauffeur should quit now and go into hiding. Once the world court gets hold of these criminals, they and all who worked for them could be imprisoned if the standard they just created is upheld.
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