Countdown: Nothing About The FBI's Anthrax Story Adds Up
By SilentPatriot Wednesday Aug 06, 2008 10:00pm
Keith interviewed investigative journalist Gerald Posner last night, who did a great job of shattering all of the inconsistencies and improbabilities in the FBI's official case against alleged anthrax killer Bruce Ivins.
The strongest evidence they have going for them is also their Achilles‘ heel and that he‘s psychological profile. That fact that he‘s very unstable, that he was someone who was an alcoholic, that he might wanted to have the vaccine continue to go along, but that‘s also the fact that he could have been set up as a cutout or puppet or used by a group of people who wanted the anthrax out there.
They also knew about his weak psychological profile. How was he employed with the most secret biological warfare lab in the United States with this type of background that we now hear about? That they should have known about from day one. The Defense Department should hang its head in shame.
For even more on this story, see Glenn Greenwald's extensive coverage:
Vital unresolved anthrax questions and ABC News
Additional key facts re: the anthrax investigation
Journalists, their lying sources, and the anthrax investigation
The FBI's emerging, leaking case against Ivins
The FBI's selective release of documents in the anthrax case
Full transcript below the fold:
OLBERMANN: A memorial service was held today for Dr. Ivins at Fort Detrick and Dr. Ivins‘ attorney in a statement reasserted his client‘s innocence.
Let‘s call in once again, investigative author, Gerald Posner, who wrote, “Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11.”
Thanks again for your time, sir.
GERALD POSNER, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Thanks, Keith. Good to be with you again.
OLBERMANN: The flask of anthrax with identical spores, ostensibly, their strongest piece of evidence. What do you make of this?
POSNER: That‘s what they make it sound like, but it‘s not. Let me tell you, the late public hears this, they think that‘s the evidence. Those are the spores that got people sick, sent out from the envelopes, not true. That was liquid anthrax in that flask.
Even if the FBI can tie to that flask, they can‘t explain how it was then made into this extremely sophisticated type of weapon with small milligram with electric charges to it, with polyglots on top of the coating, all to go deep inside the lungs, to spread to the air. This was weaponized, military anthrax. They cannot explain how from that glass flask in a liquid form into the form that was sent in the envelopes, that they don‘t have the evidence on it.
OLBERMANN: What, if anything that they presented today, is the strongest evidence? What do they got going for them?
POSNER: Well, they threw out this machine what they called the lyopholizer, they say that can make wet anthrax into dry anthrax, but I talked to six different microbiologist today and people involved formerly in weapons programs in the United States and in Russia, who say that the machine that the FBI talks about can‘t do that.
The strongest evidence they have going for them is also their Achilles‘ heel and that he‘s psychological profile. That fact that he‘s very unstable, that he was someone who was an alcoholic, that he might wanted to have the vaccine continue to go along, but that‘s also the fact that he could have been set up as a cutout or puppet (ph) or used by a group of people who wanted the anthrax out there.
They also knew about his weak psychological profile. How was he employed with the most secret biological warfare lab in the United States with this type of background that we now hear about? That they should have known about from day one. The Defense Department should hang its head in shame.
OLBERMANN: Right. Thirty-five years of murderous intent and nobody knew about it, and they let him in to the germ warfare lab. As to motive, they mentioned it but almost as if it were in passing? Is that a weak part of the case? Do they offer anything that made any sense?
POSNER: Well, I‘ll tell you. I thought it was a weak part of the case. I listened to a press conference today and then sort of at the end as though they felt they had to throw something out, they said, “Oh, by the way, let‘s give you the reasons to why we think he sent and went on this homicidal rage.”
And the motive they said was, “Well, he‘d helped developed a vaccine for anthrax, he probably wanted to continue to see that developed by killing people by having come up with an unknown way of this high military grade anthrax. We would keep the vaccine program going.”
That was pretty weak, and, you know, I thought they‘re just literally were fishing. They don‘t have a good motive, unfortunately, for them and their prosecution. But as you said in the lead into this, they don‘t need to because the primary suspect, the only suspect is dead. They‘re going to close this case.
OLBERMANN: But the declaration that he is the only, it‘s not just a question of proving a dead man did this, or was part of this, but the insistence is, he did by himself alone, mad scientist thing. Did they get anywhere near confirming that?
POSNER: No. As a matter of fact, that‘s my major problem with this. You know, if you look at it and you say, “He‘s involved, he‘s got a role in it, he‘s done something.” That‘s the evidence I‘m waiting to see that and they may nail that down. But I spoke to enough experts in the last few days, who have convinced, who know how this process works, that these spores that were sent out, were not the work of one lone scientist and that, I believe, is the case.
OLBERMANN: Investigative journalist and author, Gerald Posner, your help on this has been invaluable. Thank you, sir.
POSNER: Thank you, Keith.
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you can't exactly say "nothing adds up."
'cuz clearly, some things do add up.
of course, several key factors don't.....but you can't say "nothing adds up."
Has there been any report of his death released that shows the actual cause of death? Suicide is a beautiful coverup if the investigation was too close.
"I'm just a patsy" Lee Harvey Oswald.
Does this surprise anyone though?
http://detentionslip.org
Mueller should be tired of lying under oath for the Bush Administration. Ivins was set up and the FBI knew he was crazy. The FBI offered Ivins son bribes to lie on his Dad so they could seal the case. The last person the FBI set up with the charges fought back and won 5.8 million dollars. Now Director Mueller wants to close this case with the wrong man taking the blame. The new President will have to replace every department head in the US Government. I hope the Law Makers have time for their jobs as most are doing movies now. Poor John McCain no body cared that he was in the Movie the Wedding Crashers but millions of people saw the movie. Look McCain is jealous of Obama and the 200,000 people who came to see him. McCain should say millions came to see him in The Wedding Crashers.
Hmmmm....
One Lone Mad Scientist
One Lone Gunman with a Single Bullet
.. perfect patsies ..
This is what happens when fascists overthrow our government. PNAC wanted this war on Iraq. They wanted to control all the oil in the mideast. Long before codpiece george was selected to be the prez, these guys were planning all of this. They had to terrify us into an illegal occupation of another country. Sending anthrax to liberal senators convinced enough that we needed to attack before they attacked us. Ivins didn't send this out. The fascists did. And I will believe that to my dying day.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9801E2DF173BF930A15750C0A...
Why isn't this getting any mention in the media?
Pawn @ 2:
Overdose of Tylenol with Codeine .. that's what the media has reported ..
They appear to be in a big hurry to bury this too. Case closed. " We know who did it.Trust Us." No investigation required. Like 911.
MountainMan23 @ 6:
Both inolving the Bush family...
Is this a conspiracy theory that is acceptable to discuss here?
Site Monitor: You know, I know who you are and I've taken a fairly lenient attitude towards your changing screen name, but if you're going to give us a hard time, I'm not going to be so nice.
MountainMan23 @ 9:
Yes, a senior bio-chemist (or whatever he is) who has quick easy access to the most humane way to kill one's self and he decides to do it with...TYLENOL.
LOL!
Here's a blurb from a health site that describes the PAINFUL symptoms experienced when overdosing with Acetaminophen...
Acetaminophen is the generic name for the commonly used pain reliever Tylenol. Overdose of this drug causes liver damage with symptoms that include loss of appetite, tiredness, nausea and vomiting, paleness, and sweating. The next stage of symptoms indicates liver failure and includes abdominal pain and tenderness, swelling of the liver, and abnormal blood tests for liver enzymes. In the last stage of this poisoning, liver failure advances and the patient becomes jaundiced, with yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes. They may also experience kidney failure, bleeding disorders, and encephalopathy (swelling of the brain).
Yeah. That sounds like the way a senior biodefence researcher would like to part this world.
I have to go on record questioning the motivations & ultimate aim of Gerald "Oswald was the lone gunman" Posner.
Could end up being a misinformation plant, "could" i'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now but i've got my eyes on you Posner.
STOP George @ 13:
Wow. This gets more and more disturbing...
In other news: Bush surveys the damage done by his presidency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEURwsrUSQ
Meanwhile Tropical Storm McCain could follow in Hurricane Bush's path delivering a one two punch to America. Though still a tropical depression off the coast there is 40% chance it could make landfall sometime in November as a full fledged category 5 storm.
So we're saying that this man was framed and set up well in advance of 9/11 , yet we're not allowed to discuss that 9/11 was an inside job . No matter how much evidence we have that the earth is round, we will continue to believe that it is flat .
STOP George @ 13:
.. precisely ..
The FBI, the Department of Justice and the Department of Defense look like incompetent fools here covering up their own crimes. Are you kidding me?
Let's review:
No motive.
No evidence other than circumstantial.
No vile.
No explanation of how the LIQUID was turned into powder form Anthrax.
No explanation of the highest civilian award being provided to Ivins almost two years after the supposed crime was perpetrated. And the FBI today stated that they knew Ivins did it back in 2001. All while the FBI was still going after Steven J. Hatfill.
And yet he was already accused, tried, convicted, sentenced and executed on the mainstream media outlets including NBC Nightly bull shit with Brian Williams.
Of course these criminals had to kill Ivins. The most pathetic public defender in the country would have produced an acquittal if these idiots went to trial with this evidence (or lack thereof).
This is a clear case of murder. The only question is why?
I said at the time of the attacks and I'll say it again - the anthrax attacks were a worse terror attack then the twin towers. The twin towers was an event that was limited in nature by the method of attack, The anthrax letter attacks meant that any post office box, any mail box in the country could potentially deliver terror to your door step. Or well at least to your post office box, but you get what I'm saying. With that said I gotta say this ain't the guy that did it. He may have been involved. Maybe. But there's a LOT more to this!
The thing that surprises me is we didn't hear anything about this case being pursued until this guy kills himself. How does that make sense? If the FBI want some credibility, they need to explain why they waited until the day after Dr. Ivins kills himself to inform the public they were still doing anything about this case. This was a dead story for the last 6 years. Nobody was saying BOO about anything. Now the lone mad genius doctor who did this kills himself and bang, we find out they have been suspecting him all along. With no explanation why the attacks ended so abruptly.
There are more holes in this than a swiss cheese. Anyone who has ever tried to get and keep the clearance this man needed to do this job knows these things don't add up. A cursory review of his mental state and alcoholism would have banned this guy from getting the lowest clearance with the DOD. That assumes the FBI reports are factual, and Dr. Ivins had the problems they report.
More conspiracy theories have been born from the government trying to cover up it's own incompetence that any real conspiracy.
OT Breaking
Pakistan's Judges and legal eagles are about to impeach Musharraf,
shame that in the US, we cant even get Rove to show up at Congress after hes been subpoenaed.
Which country is the modern democracy with checks and balances, and which is the medieval fiefdom with a toothless legislature !?
He may have done everything they say- BUT he could not have 'militarized' the anthrax alone.
By the investigations own logic- their charges contradict the 'acted alone' claim.
Jo @ 7:
Well, add another believer. I've thought that since Day 1 of these attacks. It never added up. The kind of weaponized Anthrax that was used is too hard for terrorists to come by and given the fascists' propaganda at the time, it seemed likely they were behind it.
Now that I see this pathetic attempt to make some disturbed scientist the patsy, I'm convinced they were behind it.
These people are traitors and murderers. These PNAC bastards are very serious about taking over. God help this country.
off topic:
following up on alternate possible anthrax scenarios, i was struck by Carlyle's clientele list:
Boeing
Blackwater USA
Lockheed Martin
Northrop Grumman
General Dynamics
Raytheon
United Technologies
Halliburton
General Electric
Science Applications International Corporation
CSC/Dyncorp
And according to this CorpWatch website, they were in the process (3/08) of acquiring Booz Allen Hamilton, "one of the biggest suppliers of technology and personnel to the U.S. government’s spy agencies."
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14963
.. obvious false-flag attacks of 9-11; obvious lies that led to the War On Iraq; rendition, torture and kangaroo courts; painfully obvious war-profiterring; abuse & mis-use of American military; fixed American elections; packing the administrative offices of government with incompetent political hacks whose only mission was letting massive graft & corruption on their watch; etc; etc; etc ..
There is NOTHING the Bush administration has done that hasn't been done before.
What IS different is the sheer volume of these crimes and the absolute in-your-face audacity and general sloppiness of execution by the Bush administration.
The Assassins of JFK handled their coverup a lot better than these clowns.
The Anthrax Letters: A Medical Detective Story by Leonard A. Cole is the best source for investigative evidence on the attacks.
yakfitguy @ 23:
The PNACers are just a group under the auspices of the Council on Foreign Relations. They (the CFR) are the spearhead for the New World Order.
MountainMan23 @ 25:
Not only that, but the shear clown like handling of all the lies, crimes and cover-ups. It's ultra blatant. I sit here are think to myself, doesn't every single person listening to this know that's it's pure bull shit?
sorry about that: here's Carlyle's clientele list (extensive)
http://www.carlyle.com/Portfolio/Alphabetically/item8773.html
and, yes, Booz Allen Hamilton, Inc., has been acquired
Charles @ 28:
It does seem as if it was a coup.
A coup d’état (also coup) (pronounced /kuːdeɪˈtɑː/ AHD: [ko͞o"dā tä]) is the sudden overthrow of a government by a part of the state establishment — usually the military — to replace the branch of the stricken government, either with another civil government or with a military government.
x174 @ 24:
After World War One GW Bush's great-grandfathers Samuel Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker showed German industrialist Fritz Thyssen (who had lost money during the First World War, and later wrote "I Financed Hitler") how to bank out-of-country, so he wouldn't lose money on the next war. Then they created a Wall Street investment firm to handle the financial transfers between Germany, the Dutch Bank used as an intermediary during World War Two, and the United States.
Such were the early beginnings of the "Carlyle Group" ..
I want to go live in China.
Short of waterboarding the Bush regime principles, we'll never get close to the truth about who was really behind the anthrax attacks. Iven's, just as Hatfill before him, is a patsy.
Clearly, if the F.B.I. thought that he was really the attacker and had murderous ideations as they claim, they would have flat out busted him, not alerted him that he was going to be charged.
The method of suicide is also hard to believe. It's far from the first suspicious suicide or death that has been linked to biological warfare. There's also the strange case of Doctor David Kelly:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-397256/Why-I-believe-David-Kelly...
It doesn't stop there:
http://www.globalgrey.com/articles-deaths-amm.html
http://www.globalgrey.com/articles-deaths-tmdotm.html
madman1 @ 32:
Hahahaha!
I want to go live on another PLANET. This one has been taken over and ruined by all the wrong people.
madman1 @ 32:
But China doesn't respect human rights like "we" do .. just ask our pResident ..
MountainMan23 @ 35:
What the moron W means by that is, why can't the Chinese Government fuck over their people as good as we do here in Amurika. Home of the open, transparent democratic government.
Hahahaha!
The FBI's performance on this case is a disgrace and their "story" is an insult to the intelligence of the American public which is amazing because the bar has been set so low the last few years when it comes to the intelligence of the American public.
Wow! The FBI and Defense Dept. can't seem to get its act straight. If Ivins didn't act alone, then who else did?
Hal Sparks suggested that whoever poisoned Tylenol in 1982 and the anthrax mailers may have been the same individual(s).
flavor409 @ 37:
You are correct. And as I just said, it seems to be continually getting worse. The people they shove up to the podium even know they're lying their asses off. Just look at their body language and facial expressions. It's like they're thinking, "oh, man, how am I going to sell this crap?"
I keep hoping I'm going to wake up somewhere else in the morning.
Snowball @ 33:
And remember CIA Director William Casey.
Wikipedia: William J. Casey
Whatever anyone believes or disbelieves of this story, isn't the main question we should be asking: Why and how did a man with an obvious history of mental instability end up working in a biological warfare lab, messing around with Anthrax?
So who killed this guy and why?
Once again, the best defense to give the public and excuse for some government Conspiracy on behalf of the Bush crime family, is incompetence.
If we believe, that they knew they had a crazy guy with bio-weapons, than we can go about our business. Didn't we just hang Saddam Hussein for "potentially" being a threat with these WMDs? -- or was that about killing people when certain administration officials in the US approved of it, but now it's convenient to be shocked and saddened by such senseless slaughter?
OK, once again, I'm going to go out on a limb and yell; "Bull shit!" The first guy, who was cleared, was given $5 Million dollars. The only people who get compensation under the Bush administration are people who fail upwards, or say; "I didn't see anything." You know, your Made Men, who can be trusted not to squeal. So, is that guy guilty, and getting $5 Mill as a pay-off, or is he getting that money to stay quiet?
Now this guy conveniently kills himself, and we are lead to believe, that some crazed and deluded guy -- no, don't bother me with this "theory" about his motivations -- I don't want to ruin my beautiful mind with this stuff. Some deluded guy -- for whatever reason, sends Anthrax to the two guys who could stop the Patriot Act. Yeah, a guy who has Anthrax, and watches C-Span, and wants to wipe out lots of people. Tom Daschel, is apparently, the next John Lennon.
And now we are supposed to believe yet another single-shooter person, and forget that ABC claims they had 4 government sources telling them about the connection to Iraq. Look, maybe this was a "golden opportunity" to spread some propaganda -- but if you pick up the money from some other bank robber's and don't turn them in -- that means you own the crime. Some 4 people are co-conspirators, perhaps after the fact.
But we have that previous incident of Anthrax being sent to an air strip in Florida, that happened to have been used to train some people that ran into a building on 9-11, and it is kind of a forgotten lose end. Kind of like finding out that there were 2 previous attempts on JFK's life before that final tragic day in Texas, so where the fuck was the Secret Service? It seems to me, there is a little too much knowledge and coincidence with this Anthrax, and it was TOO damn convenient for stated PNAC goals, to give them another pass on the innocent bystander gig.
I don't know whether or not this website still has the ban on "9-11 Conspiracy Theories" but I'd say it's time to dust off that policy, look back with some 20/20 hindsight, and start wondering again what kind of people commit false flags, and how much coincidence people have to swallow before you have to admit, that it is no longer an occasional treat but a diet plan.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm tired of smelling coincidence, stepping in it, and having to swallow it.
NMDonkey @ 41:
Perhaps they thought he would prove useful?
Charles @ 39:
It would be nice if we were having a bad nightmare that appears over the course of 8 years, and we wake up where it's still the year 2000 where Al Gore has won the president-elect fairly, and that we shouldn't have eaten spicy burritos to celebrate the New Year, 2001 - just a similar dramatization of the show "Dallas" in the last episode.
Maybe the reason all of these government crimes are being committed and covered up so poorly is that there are no longer any checks and balances. No one is going to stop these people or the crimes they concoct, initiate, and execute. No one is investigating them except for people writing books about these incidents. There is no accountability. There is no longer justice.
As BennyP said (@30), it does seem to be a coup d'etat. We've been bamboozled. Again!
We're in big trouble. We seem to have become a bizarre 1984 style fascist police state.
And stories like this keep popping up:
"Mayor wants federal probe after SWAT raids house, kills dogs"
A Maryland mayor is asking the federal government to investigate why SWAT team members burst into his home without knocking and shot his two dogs to death in an investigation into a drug smuggling scheme.
Bush knew about the anthrax, he warned everyone on public television prior to the first mail-order terrorist attack (which was against the media, as I recall).
If he got the information from the FBI, he would have also been told it was domestic. Yet it was linked to Islamic terrorists how often in the run-up to war?
It was quite the deal coming right on the heels of 9/11 the way it did, nailing the press with propagandist sensationalism and shutting down congress. I agree with the previous posters who said it looked like a coup, I have always felt that way about it. Imagine if you will what would be different today had the towers not collapsed after being hit by something they were specifically designed to withstand.. what would be different? Besides the amount of suspicion directed to the administration, that is..
Not much, I think... we would be right were we are today. If it was a conspiracy, it's downfall might be that it was too successful.
Reasonstein...Oh, you mean if Diebold didn't step up to the plate along with Jeb Bush and the kangaroo, err, aaah, I mean the supreme court.
Crimes have certainly been perpetrated against us (the people of this country) for many generations time and time again, but it seems to be increasing almost exponentially since W and his merry band of fuck ups took control of the Dark, I mean the White House.
Maybe they needed some bull crap propaganda to scare us some more. To make sure duct tape and plastic sheeting and gas mask sales were up in the heartland. I know they have wanted to set up someone of every race, creed, and religion so they could declare that EVERYONE was a terror suspect. So maybe Ivins fit into their schemes.
This adds up all right.
It adds up to a colossal failure on the part of the Buch DOJ. They spent millions investigating (harassing) the wrong guy, who eventually sued and won millions more of our tax dollars. Then they spend millions more investigating (harassing) another mentally unstable DOD scientist who, before they can even charge him, offs himself out of madness. In the end, we have wasted millions of dollars and are absolutely no closer to solving this crime than we were in 2001.
Heck of a job. I guess next they'll claim the FBI is incompetent in an effort to further outsource (privatize) our law enforcement services to profiteering corporatists.
Che's Lounge @ 50:
Clusterfuck accomplished.
x174 @ 24, HELL! That's not "off topic" at all!
NMDonkey @ 41, alternately the question might be did he really have such a history of mental instability?? From my time in the Army in the 80s working with ADMs I doubt very much that he would have been allowed to continue his work there if he did. But maybe he was just so good at it that they didn't care. But I have to doubt that.
Jean C Duley (shrinking violet in hiding) aka Jean Wittman
COINTELPRO paid witness !!!
Anthrax like 9/11 was an inside job is the only reasonable explanation, the FBI is just functioning as the coverup squad as usual.
Is it anyone surprised that this wasn't a cover up from the beginning? IIRC the anthrax case followed shortly after the twin towers went down in flames. It's quite obvious that this was the used as a pretext to invade Iraq.
Lee Harvey Ivins.
Jean C. Duley... tell us again...
Another conservative wackjob.
Olympic bomber? Anti-abortion wackjob
Unabomber? Manifesto full of anti-leftist ravings
Anthrax mailer? Conservative turd
Tim McVeigh? Pro-gun rights crusader.
When a terror attacks occurs its either a muslim jihadi or a conservative jihadi.
Anyone that trusts this right wing neocon infiltrated government must be nutz!!
Charles @ 46:
Some friends were tossing around some ideas the other day on what to do about the war criminals since they figured out how to rig the system of "checks and balances" to protect themselves, rather than check themselves.
The best idea I thought was a citizen sponsored bounty for the arrest of the war criminals. It could have it's own website with paypal so people could donate online. Start with 5, say Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Bush, and Condi. Treat them just as they did Noriega and Sadam, because with the mercenaries out there, money talks and bs walks.
Oh, and props to C&L for following this story.
Hannity, Rush, O'liely et. all are just water carriers and distraction.
The network within the government that planned, executed, and attempted to cover-up domestic bioterrorism using international treaty violating WMD's, are the REAL crooks and liars.
Problem is, we don't know how difficult it is to perform the processes of weaponizing the liquid anthrax in the Ivan's vial. Maybe it's relatively easy, maybe the equipment was readily available. Still, it does appear that the Justice Department is awfully anxious, after years of futility, to close this case and move on.
Why?
USAMRIDD also were quoted as saying a few days ago,
hardly the deeds and actions of an employer who thought he was guilty.
plus all the named quoted ex colleagues who said he didnt do it.
VitriolAndAngst @ 45:
Wow. Well said man!
Frank Lee Speekin @ 13:
So free speech is dead here and I won't be back under any name.
Wow, does anyone see the movie Arlington Road. It's almost like the FBI just took their whole case against this guy from that movie. If you haven't seen it, you must see it.
MountainMan23 @ 7:
Or the beginnings of a great comic book.
The best way to shut up those who question suspicious results and shoddy investigations by the government is to label them "conspiracy nuts." And suddenly everybody comes out, from govt. officials to the media to comedians, and pokes fun at the "conspiracy nuts."
That's because they don't want to ask reasonable questions.
My gut feeling in 2001 was that the anthrax scare allowed the neoconservative agenda to be pushed through (to go to war and increase the "war on terrorism") with high support from a terrified public.
Why isn't it suspicious that these anthrax attacks occured only at this critical time, when the bush administration needed public support (fear) for his war on terrorism?
Why isn't it suspicious that right before he's leaving office the investigation's being cleaned up and filed away, nice and tidy!
Shit, we've seen the nature of the snake for 8 years, why is it a stretch to assume they're behind this as well?
These people are completely out of their minds, if they think that anyone is buying what they are selling, however they may as well shut it down, for now, because Bush and his gang are never going to force any kind of real investegatons anyhow.
Not to worry though. This case can and will be re-visited. And that they may be sure of.
Ummmm.....sorry but crazy anthrax scientist in overalls that likes to write lots of letters to Congress-I think they got their man, folks........just sayin.
Don @ 73:
As opposed to who? That sane, model of mental health we've got in the whitehouse?
If you want to believe this crime is a simple as one "crazy scientist" doing it all, that's fine. You're free to have your opinion. But you have to admit, the circumstances are highly suspicious.
This is just too convenient. This whole thing is just too convenient for too many people.
I have questions. Steven Hatfill does seem to have some questionable things in his "resume' " On top of this, he is paid off by the government to the tune of 5+million dollars because he filed a lawsuit against them. He has filed a LOT of law suits against people who have claimed he may be guilty. Filing a lawsuit and winning, particularly one against the government, in this day and age, is NOT a statement of innocence. It just means your lawyer argued the case better. How is he honestly exhonerated?
Dr. Phillip Zack. There's a guy with some problems, as well as some cause for wanting to be involved in this particular little false flag operation. Zack and Hatfill, two guys with knowledge and motive, and some proximity to the weapon of choice. So, why are they both being protected?
This whole thing stinks to high heaven for a variety of reasons. The one relevant to my life is that my husband works for the US Postal Service. At the time that this whole anthrax thing was going on, they powers that be were trying VERY hard to privatize the mail. (They still are trying, and succeeding to an extent, but I digress).
They had the workers wearing masks for several weeks after this happened, and anything that was found that was a white powder substance, closed the building down. Even people making "jokes" about anthrax would close the building down. They had 4 incidences of evacuation the first week. All four were found to be white chalk, used in marking large pallets of mail, that had been crushed by forklifts. This is ONE postal facility.(out of about 100 in this city) There were other incidences of this happening all over this country.
A few months later, when they were still under high alert, the Republican Congress tried to use the mail not being delivered in a timely manner (because of work stoppages) as a reason for privatization. It struck both my husband and I,(as well as many of his co-workers) that this was really odd. There is a threat to national security, via a nationally owned service it is a Class A Felony to assault a postal employee on duty, because they are considered government property anytime they are clocked in, or on government owned land.
We were being told that we had to go to war with Iraq because of the threat of WMD, and yet, the one source of victims of WMDs in the country was going to be sold off to the highest bidder, if the Republican Congress had it's way. Way too much of a disconnect, even for some of the morons in Congress. (for the record, it was Democrats in Congress who stood up and fought for the PS at that time, led by Lacey Clay from MO. He threw that exact argument at the leaders, and they backed down for a time.)
I can remember my husband and I both arguing with relatives and friends that all of this was just way too convenient and being told, "But what if you are wrong? Do you want your family to die?"
Well, my son is leaving for Iraq for the second time, in just a few months. What if we were right? Does that get any of the last 6 years back? Does it mean that our son can stay home? Does it mean that we get to "glory" of being right?
Sorry, but I'm just a little bit tired of people being scared into capitulation. I sometimes feel like other people's stupidity is being visited on my family, and I resent it more than just a little. At this point, I feel like anyone who doesn't see that we've had a fascist coup, and that this election may not even transpire because of it, needs to be taken behind the woodshed and had some sense beat into them.
Normally, I'm a pacifist, but THIS makes me very angry. Not at our government, because this is just what I expect from Fascists, but at my fellow citizens who don't even care enough about their own kids and their own rights, to fight back.
McCain is not a threat to this country because he's a doddering old man, who is a neo-con and is wrong headed. It's not his energy policy, or his birthcontrol policy or his policy on Iraq. It's his mindset.
McCain is a threat because he is a Fascist, just like Cheney and Bush, and the rest of that group. They serve the Corporation, and not the Constitution. By definition this makes them Fascists. This may not make for polite politics, but it is the objective truth.
Sorry that the last post had punctuation mistakes. It's late, I can't sleep, I'm not 'ON' anything but adrenalin and worry.
Other wise, I meant everything I said.
Republicans are liars and cannot be trusted.
I wouldn't trust Gerald Posner with anything he says. In fact,whatever he says, it is likely the complete opposite is true. His "Case Closed" on the JFK murder was so full of holes and distortions that the idea of him being a journalist is a complete joke. He is probably a CIA stooge who's job it is to spread disinformation and spin things in the "right" way.
Frank Lee Speekin @ 13:
[Deleted. Bandwidth is expensive. The comment space is reserved for comments that relate to the topic of the post. In addition, C&L is a personal site. It is not the Government. It is not public institution or a media organization. It is not a neutral site. It is intended to express and disseminate the authors’ point of view. It reserves the right to limit comments to those that, in its view, comport with its stated comment policy. Comments that do not comply are subject to deletion and banning of the author’s ISP-Sitemonitor]
Amen beckyboo
And the Department of Homeland Security was where? Oh yea right....scanning your laptop in a back room at the airport.
meritocracy @ 79:
Free speech...uh not exactly...somebody has to pay for this site, it is privately owned. So as a house guest, if you say something that offends the host, the host of the party can and will throw you out of the house.
[Deleted. Thanks for the help. :-) We'll speak for ourselves if we feel it's required-Sitemonitor]
Yeah, but the government is done with the investigation, case closed. C'mon people, we know how this stuff works. We get called conspiracy nuts or conspiracy theorists, marginalized, considered fringe, and then 40 years from now we'll be proven right.
Happened with JFK, happened with Gulf of Tonkin, happened with Pearl Harbor, happened with Lusitania, happened with USS Liberty, likely to happen with Waco, likely to happen with 9/11, likely to happen with the Iraq war, likely to happen with whatever excuse we come up with to attack Iran, and likely to happen with these anthrax attacks.
In 40 years, all the people we COULD hold accountable will be dead and buried, and you can't try a dead man in court... But you can certainly convict him, apparently.
Amazing of all the miracles that are happening right now!! Gas prices are falling....Osama's chauffeur has been caught....Anthrax case solved....FHA bailout....focusing milatary efforts on Afghanistan again....etc....etc...
The end of 2008 has been so miraculous. The miracle fairy has been working hard.
If only we could have a presidential election every year.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. Your correction to an off topic post is not necessary-Sitemonitor]
I believe that the real suspect is a Zionist Neo Con from Ft. Deitrick who was actually caught on video entering the anthrax facility. I guess because Dr. Philip Zack is Jewish, he can't be a terrorist. The motive was the same as Nine Eleven, fear, terror, the Patriot Act in the U.S. Homeland. We have some evil doers in the U.S. Military/Government/Media/Security complex. regards
Post American @ 87:
How dare you! Zionists aren't terrorists! They're just protecting the land promised to them by the great invisible sky-dad and European nations who didn't want them around anymore with REALLY BIG GUNS!
Don't you see the difference? Terrorists don't have anything to fight for besides the fact that they hate freedom. They're not mad about having their land taken or treated as inmates in their own country... That's CRAZY!
meritocracy @ 85:
I have to agree with Meritocracy. [Deleted. Why don't you two get a room then? Start your own blog and run it sans monitoring. With C&L traffic volumes. You two haven't got even a hint of a clue, And I don't think a roll of quarters would buy you enough clues for either of you to get it-Sitemonitor]
85 meritocracy and 90 SpankeyTheMonkey
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you too
[Deleted. Join them then. Get a room with the two of them and do just that-Sitemonitor]
look at all the in depth analysis of the anthrax attacks...
and look at the vacuum of analysis and justiable skepticism regarding 911.
pathetic.
SpankeyTheMonkey @ 90:
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Ivins Could Not Have Coated the Killer Anthrax with High-Tech Anti-Clumping Agents
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/08/ivins-could-not-have-coate...
Site-monitor....... Sad.....very sad.
Now they've dragged out the scientist lady Ivins was "stalking."
Dunno, but seems like going from "crazy woman stalker guy" to "crazy, let's kill congress and the liberal media guy" is quite a distance. I'm no psychiatrist but it strikes me you'd be one or the other, not both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAYMd3RjFBk
This is a segment from Michael Riveros What Really Happened radio show on Saturday August 2nd, 2008. Get the archive at gcnlive.com or whatreallyhappened.com
The evidence amassed by F.B.I. investigators against Dr. Bruce E. Ivins, the Army scientist who killed himself last week after learning that he was likely to be charged in the anthrax letter attacks of 2001, was largely circumstantial, and a grand jury in Washington was planning to hear several more weeks of testimony before issuing an indictment, a person who has been briefed on the investigation said on Sunday.
Including Dr. Philip Zack, the man actually caught on the security system entering the storage area without proper authorization, after losing his job over a racially-motivated attack on an Egyptian co-worker.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRH...
Would Arab terrorists have targeted only Congress men who were likely to oppose the Patriot Act and other tyrannical measures? Would they have gotten that specific in their targeting? In order to terrorize America as a whole, wouldn't real Arab terrorists have sent anthrax to the Congressional leaders of both parties, regardless of their political postures towards particular legislation?
The true anthrax suspect is Dr. Philip Zack!
Read more at whatreallyhappened.com
Well, even if Ivans WAS the guy who did it, which seems plausible and may be more or less provable... the motive is another bucket of worms. Something about the "bad Catholics" theory, i.e. retribution for the victims' not opposing a woman's choice (altogether or strongly enough), seems fishy and too convenient. In the hysteria that followed the mailed anthrax letters, the Patriot Act passed almost unopposed, due to (a) heightened hysteria that some enemy was out to get us, and (b) the fact that US senators and congresspersons were then unable to get any mail from consitituents who might have raised objections to the sweeping powers the Patriot Act gave the government. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I suspected all along that the anthrax scare was part of a campaign by the right wingnuts to make most Americans welcome the Patriot Act. Shutting down the Capitol mail system could have been part of the one-two punch to get that done. Congresspersons don't give a shit what anyone says in emails, and we're always told that written letters have more of an impact. How convenient that during that time they couldn't get letters from constituents.
george bush's gay photo's, anthrax & the national enquirer
http://poland.indymedia.org/pl/2004/09/9014.shtml
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