Would McCain attack less if there were town-hall debates?
By Steve Benen Friday Aug 08, 2008 7:45pm
It’s not surprising at all that the Washington Post’s David Broder would prefer to see the presidential candidates stick to responsible, substance-driven campaigns. It’s also not surprising that Broder would enjoy a series of town-hall “debates” between the two candidates.
What’s odd, though, is seeing Broder try to connect the two, suggesting the lack of the latter has a causal relationship with the lack of the prior.
The first question I asked John McCain and then Barack Obama was: How do you feel about the tone and direction of the campaign so far?
No surprise. Both men pronounced themselves thoroughly frustrated by the personal bitterness and negativism they have seen in the two months since they learned they would be running against each other.
“I’m very sorry about it,” McCain said in a Saturday interview at his Arlington headquarters. “I think we could have avoided at least some of this if we had agreed to do the town hall meetings” together, as he had suggested, during the summer months.
First, it’s interesting that McCain is “very sorry” about the tone of the campaign now, given that it was just one week ago when McCain told reporters, “I’m proud of the campaign that we have run. I’m proud of the issues that we have been trying to address with the American people.”
Second, the notion that the campaigns “could have avoided … some of this” if there’d been 15 debates instead of three doesn’t make any sense. It’s a classic non sequitur — whether McCain runs a relentlessly negative, substance-free campaign has nothing to do with his proposal for extra debates.
And yet, Broder really seems to think there’s something to this.
Since the idea of joint town meetings was scrapped, the campaign has featured tough and often negative ads and speeches. […]
When I asked Obama how he thought the campaign could be returned to the issues, he said he hoped that the two conventions would “offer each party a chance to showcase its best ideas” and that the three scheduled presidential debates then “will allow people to see Senator McCain and myself interact in a way that keeps people more honest because you’re standing there face to face.”
I told Obama that McCain made exactly that point in arguing for the early joint appearances. What McCain actually said was: “When you have to stand on a stage with your opponent, as I’ve done in other campaigns, you obviously have a tendency to improve the relationship…. When you have to spend time with somebody, I think it changes the equation.”
Let’s not brush past this too quickly. McCain seems to have told Broder that he’s running a negative campaign because he hasn’t built up a strong enough rapport with his Senate colleague. He wants to “improve the relationship,” and “spend time with” Obama, but since there haven’t been extra debates, McCain feels justified launching a series of ridiculous attacks (which he’s “very sorry about”).
This is terribly silly. If McCain wanted to run a substantive, grown-up campaign, he could. Whether there are three debates or 300 is irrelevant. It’s not like McCain and Steve Schmidt got together one day on Cindy McCain’s private jet and said, “Well, I wasn’t going to accuse Obama of wanting to lose a war and of being responsible for high gas prices, but since there are only going to be three debates, we might as well.”
Why would Broder find this message compelling?
When Broder pressed the point with Obama, he responded, “I think the notion that somehow as a consequence of not having joint appearances, Senator McCain felt obliged to suggest that I’d rather lose a war to win a campaign doesn’t automatically follow. I think we each have control over ourselves and our campaigns, and we have to take responsibility for that.”
What a concept.
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Broder = Schmuck
"Why would Broder find this message compelling?"
Because it keeps the election in the hands of insiders, the Villagers. They can have an elite discourse with the pesky little people as walk-ons in a faux model of democracy, the only one our current ruling class approves of. The press will only ask "tough" questions of Obama, undoubtedly, but the fake Town Hall format was the RePukes/ McCain's idea, and they should always get what they want. (Broder's model of "bipartisanship" & "compromise" always means RePukes get what they want (torture, wiretapping w/out warrants, tax cuts) & the fake opposition Demos fold like Pelosi does when the impeachment issue is raised.
Clear enough.
It's really simple Senator McCain. You can stop all the negative campaigning right now regardless of the number of town hall meetings you have.
But you won't, will you?
Jo @ 1:
Jo = First!
Well, it makes perfect sense to me. Obama snubbed him on the Town Hall thing, and then got all that attention in Europe. It hurt John-Boy's feelings and he just had to get nasty.
He'll be all right after a "time out."
You know, I have a friend of mine I haven't seen in a long time. We missed each other at first. Then all the opportunities we had to do town hall debates just went by the wayside. Now I hate that fucking asshole.
Oh, I see. McCain wouldn't have gotten down and dirty if he had gotten his way.... how Bush like of him.
_
McCain and the msm would rather talk about the campaign than the issues. I'd like to know if there'd be a place in McCain's administration for Dick Cheney.
A non sequitur here, a logical fallacy there and irrelevant conclusions all over the place.
Who is paying attention?
They will not run on the facts: the Republicans have sold off the country to the highest bidder. Many of the Democrats have helped them.
They cannot talk about reality.
David Broder is a very important person.
David Broder's opinion matters.
There's a tiny amount of logic to it: if they'd done a series of face-to-face town hall meetings (and had the participants actually been a valid cross-section of the voting public), then any lie McCain told about Obama could have been identified as such and refuted immediately. There would then be video of Obama calling McCain's lies lies, and if McCain were stupid enough to create ads utilizing those lies, they'd be answered immediately by tape of Obama pointing out that they're lies and McCain's flustered expression on having to face the truth.
This is the kind of town hall "debate" Broder and McCain were hoping for:
FOX Admits McCain Stacked “Town Hall” With Supporters
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/13/fox-admits-mccain-stacked-town-...
Smart of Obama not to play into their hands.
McCains response to the question is nothing more then yet another negative attack. What a sleazeball!
Both David Broder and Steve Benen focus on the debates between the two presidential candidates without either one advocating that these debates be opened to third party candidates. It is always encouraging to see a liberal web site be totally oblivious to the fact that in a [supposed] democracy, all voices should be seen and heard, instead of being restricted to only Democrats and Republicans.
Ruthless People, What? There's "Broder Points" available now?
You know, I say, Obama have a freakin town hall debate with the dumbass...errrr...i mean McCain. that way when it is my turn to ask a question, I'll ask "when are we going to start campaigning about real issues and who, when they become president, will relinquish CoG powers and re-institute our constitutional democracy????"
I wont say McSame is representing GW's thirds term, but he is by no means any better than the neo-con. It would be nice (in a perfect world I know) to see both parties actually campaigning on what they will bring to the table and how they will help America instead of well my opponent said this and did this...........come on!!! My 6 year old is more mature!
I was asked this the other day, so I thought I'd post it:
"Anyone else thinking that maybe the GOP is just trying to make McCain look so retarded that by the time of the GOP convention they will just pull him and put in someone new so that Obama has no chance of digging anything up or letting the American people know what a fraud the guy is, thereby possibly grasping another GOP term in office?????"
the obama campaign countered the mccain request for
townhall meetings. i never heard anything after that.
i believe mccain is giving obama plenty of ammunition to expose mccain when they do debate.
i still believe there should be a debate with the use of YouTube to expose mccain...kind of a fact check on the spot.
i doubt it, mccain is a really tough guy who flip flopped on every issue, even the one about having a respectful campaign.
Video: Hillary Campaigns For Obama in Nevada
Cindy @ 19:
McCain was even taped flip-floping within 10 freakin minutes at a debate during the primaries. If i remember correctly had to do with gay marriage.
I'm still waiting for the interview of McCains first wife. I'd have some great questions to ask her.
Maybe because he looks more and more foolish with every ad he puts out?
What BS. So the argument is, from McCain: "Give me more coverage, or I'll go negative!" and Broder, ever the keen mind, bought it.
McCain the Liar @ 21:
I suspect she has a divorce settlement based on silence.
McCain the Liar @ 21:
She'll claim executive privilege ahead of time.
Ruthless People @ 11:
David Broder is a shill for the health care industry.
5 Months, Thirteen Days ...................
Tick Tock
Wouldn't you like to wake up and find out this was all just a bad dream?
That the whole thing never happened, and Gore was President?
That we had done the right things?
Ruthless People @ 25:
Oh, his first wife. Nevermind. I thought you meant the current wife. This one --> http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41033000/jpg/_41033716_whitewitch.jpg Cold, calculating and evil she is.
Captain Bitter Whiner Hussein Kangaroo @ 26:
There's big bucks in shilling. That suit Broder's wearing isn't cheap.
The Texas Sleaze Machine used the "Town Hall" setting to showcase Bush. Audiences were carefully vetted to include only those firmly committed to Dubya and were usually either on military bases or in the south. No doubt the McCain "Town Hall" debates would be just as carefully planned.
Had Obama's people suggested anything different, and Democratic partisanship would have been trumpeted on CNN, Fox and David Broder's column.
It makes more sense to have three debates and let McCain throw hissy fits every day or two. He comes across as a mean-spirited little man.
Just like some people are too old to be president, some are too old to be newspaper columnists. True, McCain's capacity to destroy the world would be greater as president than would be Broder's as a pundit, but both are very bad news.
McCain is dangerous; Broder merely silly and annoying.
27 ♥♦♣♠BB♥♦♣♠ Says: 5 Months, Thirteen Days ……………….
Tick Tock
Wouldn’t you like to wake up and find out this was all just a bad dream?
That the whole thing never happened, and Gore was President?
That we had done the right things?
It's been a nightmare, but the worst thing about a gore win, we would have Lieberman running for POTUS. That could even be worse.
Republicans and democrates swore an oath, to uphold the Constitution,, with their hand on a bible.
They both lied to the people they represent, and to the Gods of their deeply so-called rooted faiths.
What has changed to give anything they say ANY crediabilty whatsover? They lied with their hand on a bible, to their gods, so lying to us, is just everyday business as usual, just to stay on their thrones, and obtain even better ones, with IMMUNITY labels stamped clearly on the backs.
With McCain debating McCain, why does he want Obama to confuse him even more?
Ruthless People @ 29:
And he gets the best health care insurance for free.
i cannot believe that anyone at all
a) reads broder
b)supports that lying, militaristic little sleaseball mccain.
but then, i thought that about dubya, so what do i know?
Obama's probably thinking:
Who would want to spend time with that loser?
For once, a Republican is desperate for something to happen and the Democrat holds all the cards.
Let's get this election over with so that McCain can go back to being an ineffective nobody in the Senate.
"Tom Harkin could be George Bush's worst nightmare".
David Broder, December 1991 or January 1992 (can't remember)
David Broder is the biggest fucking idiot around yet he is treated as some sort of oracle.
The next thing this douchebag gets right will be the first.
qwerty @ 12:
I kinda see the point qwerty is making here - if there were 15 town hall meetings, that would mean like 3 per month, or at least 2 per month. So they would have to go face to face in front of a crowd of people (assuming McCain wants to 'hand pick' his supporters, Obama could do the same - so the room would be evenly split). But when you are standing in front of the opponent week after week, a sleeze ad like the antichrist or the hilton/britney smear ad would result in face to face recriminations and the video cameras would be rolling - perhaps McCain would be forced to be a bit more civil with his ads. Perhaps. Maybe. We'll never know. I may regret saying this - Broder is an ass of course, so even agreeing with him a little is scary.
Ruthless People @ 11:
True.
Broder is old. McCain is old. They think old. They talk old. They're like two old farts at the Elks Hall, complaining bitterly that the country has left them behind--and the mashed potatoes are cold--and their bingo numbers never come up.
Old.
Why doesn't Jimmy Carter act old?
Look, every Republican thinks "going negative" is inevitable in this campaign. When questioned on this matter... they ALL admit it's because THAT's how Republicans have been winning elections!
That's an interesting bit of irony.
Truth is it's up to US... the voters... to end this vicious cycle.
So, how is it, again, that McCain is BETTER PREPARED than Obama for the Presidency???
due to his experience in DROPPING NAPALM on Vietnamese villages???
then getting shot down???
then being TORTURED??? (which he seems to be OK with now.)
then making propaganda statements against the American Government???
How does THAT work, again? Like this: I just went NEGATIVE in my anti-negative rant. That's how the Republicans do it... and believe me, the Democrats should start stealing pages from that playbook.
I see that Paul Newman is weeks away from the end and has gone home to face it. Just too bad it's not Broder.
Anyone who would believe this crap from McInsane about running a different kind of campaign if he had got his way with Town Halls is as much of an idiot as McInsane is. He never had any intention in running a clean campaign. Just another Repuklic lie. He saw how successful the Bushwackers were against Kerry and had every intention of doing the same. Why else would he have Rove playing in the background? McInsane and his minions should remember: 'what goes around, comes around.' This year is not four years ago and McInsane is a horrible campaiger. He crashed planes before, but he is in for the crash of his life.
The way John McCain treated Mitt Romney during the Repub primaries left me to believe that he is not a nice man. If he'd behave that way toward a fellow Repub, he'll behave that way toward a Democrat. It was like watching a junior high schooler insulting a rival.
Ruthless People @ 11:
Fixed your typo.
;)
Obama would be foolish to agree to Town Hall debates. The Repubs will have people planted in the audience asking Obama, given that he is a Muslim, is it OK for him to beat his wife. Stay AWAY from Town Hall debates. Keep it for the three national debates -- as Paris said, "See you at the debates, bitches."
Broder translation:
If only Obama had those town hall meetings, McSame wouldn't have to be such a grumpy old man and said all those lies about Obama in his ads.
Younger generation translation:
Obama didn't kiss my ass about the town hall meetings, some I am just going to take my ball home and tell him to FK himself, and I'll say whatever I WANT to, lies or not!
Batocchio @ 23:
So Kid Maverick throws a temper tantrum and gets his way??!!
What a bunch of fuktards!!
You're all talking to each other and your comments sound like you're all a bunch of kids who find something funny, which makes you laugh. This is a serious matter. You have a Republican candidate who is slowly beginning to look like a real idiot, whom the press just loves - and you're laughing! Will you laugh when another idiot gets into the Oval Office and continues to bring this country to absolute ruin so that a few rich people and big corporations can do whatever they want.? Why don't you begin complaining often and loudly to everyone you can that this has to stop. That the lies about everything - from the "surge" to drilling off-shore for oil - have to stop - that the press has to face the fact that so much of these problems are their fault because they aren't journalists any more. DO SOMETHING, just don't stand there and laugh.
Essafaga is right. We should be scared! Just as the shirt says the STUPID PEOPLE believe the nonsequitors and the stuff that makes no sense.
AND there is the fact that the republicans own the voting machines... why are we wasting our time on any of this? The polls will say one thing, the voting machines another... they have gained oh so much power under Bush....
broder boy closed the comments on his post
probably got tired of all the new assholes being ripped into him
In-spite of the constant ignorant statements, the just plain stupid flip-flops and the piddly ass crowds McCain draws . . . the MSN and Polls "tell" us how CLOSE it is . . . makes it a lot easier to explain how all those Diebold Machines will deliver a "stunning victory" for McCain . . . .
John Doheny @ 5:
Seriously, it wouldn't have mattered. Rove Inc is running his campaign, not 'The Maverick'. More of the same of the last 8 years.
The MSM is looking for any way to justify the smears.
Captain Bitter Whiner Hussein Kangaroo @ 22:
I was thinking that too... McCain seems more upset that the negative attacks aren't working very well rather than he's truly sorry that there were negative attacks in the first place.
Vindictive, retaliatory, sure sounds like a republican. Yet, we have even greater evidence from all the election cycles before that the Republicans have no ethics or character to draw upon for which to base a reasoned campaign on the issues. Republicans are all about disgusting personal attacks based on lies. Never expect they will act or speak ethically. I have come to the conclusion that the Republicans are the party of lies, deception, and really are the true Anti-American party. I had to laugh this morning, on the Washington Journal, the Republican talking head who was supporting McCain had under his name "ethics". So when the lies of McCain's ads were laid bare, this so called ethical individual had nothing to add regarding McCain's unethical practices. Again, so typical Republican, Orwellian scumbag in ethics clothing.
If my memory on this matter serves correctly:
1) McCain proposed a bunch of debates ALL to be in a format that he favors (Town Hall).
2) Obama response that he is all for additional debates but he would like to discuss the matter and have a mix of formats (with SOME of them being Town Hall style).
3) McCain never responds to the counter offer.
Somehow there is this constant drumming about Obama not saying yes to McCain but little being heard about 2 & 3
I think the question is silly. Town hall debates, monitored debates, whatever, Obama is sure to win. McShame has an Achilles heel: his temper. At some point, he is going to blow a fuse and say something stupid. And even if he only takes those silly little faux embarrassed jabs like he did with Romney, he will come off as a petty, bullying person -- which of course he is.
James M. Martin @ 56:
Petty and bullying -- the face of America for the past 8 years.
Why should anyone expect that to change? Looking at the polls and the way McCain's campaign keeps up the BS smear ads against Obama, there's no reason to suspect that McCain won't win the White House.
What makes this worse is that Broder was on MTP this morning, spouting this same weird meme (McSame went negative because Obama wouldn't do 10 town hall meetings with him) and nobody on the panel challenged him on it. Broder even went as far to assert that McSame was eager to get on stage with Obama....and more crickets from the panel. Much like the trip to Europe, McSame better watch what he asks for. When these two finally do get on a stage together...it will be a matchup that makes Nixon's flop sweat Kennedy debate..look like a beauty pageant.
* Would McCain complain less about Obama's celebrity accusations if he could draw crowds like Obama, instead of having to find a crowd (like in Sturgis) and forcing himself inbetween Kid Rock and a Buffalo Chip competition?
* Did McCain ever complain of his own celebrity status as being a Maverick?
The answer; YES, McCain would attack even more if there were "Town Hall" debates.
Why; Because when McCain did poorly he would have to attack more to compenste.
* Foot note: Besides, It isn't up to McCain. It is up to the GOP and Rove to attack. And that "My Friends" is all the McCain camp has going for it and all they know how to do. They have no positives to run on exept that 40 yrs ago McCain served his country in the military. Everything after that is like serving as one of the Keating Five.
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