Georgia's plight and a Neocon fantasy
While Bush cheered on at the Olympics---another failed policy is revealed.
If Bush, Cheney and their oil buddies (they only seem to get really excited these days when there's a bunch of oil or pipelines at stake) have been making promises the US can't keep, it only serves to create a sort of martyr cause for them to use down the road. In fact, it's possible that's the whole point. Push for NATO, push for military involvement, push for permanent presence. That seems to be the neoconservative longterm energy plan ---- rule the world. Same as it ever was.
Oh, and the conservos should probably soft peddle the self-righteous screeching about how the Russians broke the law and invaded for the purpose of "regime change" and occupation...read on
And it looks like the neocons are getting excited that we might go and fight Russia.
Can you feel his excitement at the idea of fighting the Russians again? These are worthy enemies, unlike that pissant Saddam or those half-assed terrorists. Why if we play our cards right we can have WWXXIVII (we must be up to that by now, right?) with both Russia and China, just like their adolescent wet dreams.
The neocons think very long term and always rigidly refuse to change their analysis no matter what the facts or circumstances dictate. Even the fall of the Soviet Union wasn't enough to change their view, not really. Everyone remembers that in 1992, Paul Wolfowitz famously wrote a defense document that reemerged as the neocon PNAC manifesto "Rebuilding America's Defenses." That original document contained a plan to repel a Russian military assault on a former republic:
Senior Defense Department officials have said the document will be issued by Defense Secretary Cheney this month. According to a Feb. 18 memorandum from Mr. Wolfowitz's deputy, Dale A. Vesser, the policy guidance will be issued with a set of "illustrative" scenarios for possible future foreign conflicts that might draw United States military forces into combat.
These scenarios, issued separately to the military services on Feb. 4, were detailed in a New York Times article last month. They postulated regional wars against Iraq and North Korea, as well as a Russian assault on Lithuania and smaller military contingencies that United States forces might confront in the future...read on
Oh, and the conservos should probably soft peddle the self-righteous screeching about how the Russians broke the law and invaded for the purpose of “regime change” and occupation
I'll second that..........
The Presidents of Poland Ukrainian Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia all went to Georgia today.
I think this is there way of telling Russia who's side they're on.
well if the neocons are excited to go to
war with russia, then by all means,
ship the reichwingneocons over there
and let them protect that fucking
oil they pray to so often.
Gee, has no one else noticed the fact that it was Georgia that precipitated this crises by invading the autonomous region of South Ossetia? Also, that a top McCain adviser is also a lobbyist for Georgia? Isn't it interesting how the Corporate Media had far right Conservative "experts" ready to be deployed to the Corporate Media armed to the hilt with McCain campaign talking points? Does anyone other than me think this was an international crises orchestrated from Washington to bolster the McCain campaign?
The more we read the more we come to know that these are the real aims of the Empire - the controlling of the vital resources of the day and the containment of the enemies of the globalists.
All I see around me is the world failing.
The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons.
JHR @ 1:
Agree 100%. When it comes to international credibility, we fucked ourselves in the ass hard with our ridiculously stupid macho bullshit policies.
Oh, and how 'presumptious' or 'arrogant' of John McCain, who ISN'T President, to 'speak' for all Americans and declare that we all are on Georgia's side. sorry, sir, but Bush is the only one currently who can do that. so back off, old man, as you don't have the job yet, if you even get it. get a clue.
Left&Left @ 8:
If only it was stupid arrogance. It's greed, greed, greed.
By all means, let's pick a fight with anyone who looks at us funny.
It reminds me of the Dave Chappell (sp?) skit, When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong.
breakspear @ 9:
You took the words out of my mouth.
John McCain is an Idiot. Plain and Simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWX5u69hmzY
John McCain at Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK-LEyyf7d4
The fact McCain has a lobbyist who in connected to Georgia is unethical. But then again, we are talking about McCain.
The Russians put into their doctrine a statement, and have broadcast it very loudly, that if the United States were to use precision conventional weapons against Russian troops, the Russians would be forced to respond with tactical nuclear weapons.
McCain:
Georgia . . . Ooh, Georgia . . .
No peace I find
Putin:
Hit the road, Saak
And don't you come back no more
Bush:
I think I'll go to bed; armageddon sleepy.
Let's rattle the sabers and fire a shot across the bow. Send in General Cheney and Admiral McCain to win the war and show Georgia how. All it takes is a few billion dollars and thousands of dead. There is oil in them thar hills, we've got to go, enough said. But before you go just one last thought. When you charge in on false intel this time around, just don't get caught.
P.D. @ 14:
These capital extremists who run this nightmarish, sophistry filled circus truly are certified psychopaths.The fact that they timed this evil act to coincide with the olympics is all you need for proof.It would seem their nastiness is virtually boundless.If this madness continues we are all obviously headed towards catastrophe.I wish i could say i was optimistic, but i live in enough of a fantasyland as it is.
Apparently the Georgians expected the US and/or NATO to back them up.
NY Times (Aug 10): On Slog to Safety, Seething at West
Who told these Georgian soldiers that the US or NATO would back them up?
Did the Bush-Cheney Gang tell Saakashvili the US would back him up ?
Did Saakashvili simply decide on his own that the US would back him up?
Or was this false assurance some black-op covert action by the US, or Russia, or by whom?
LA@17, You said it all. By the way, is your keyboard smoking?
Here McGoo mispronounces Mikhail Sakashvilli three times.
Putin is just following his good friend georges' example.
They don't want the west in their own backyard. neither did we like them in our yard (Cuba) and believe me, this was not a spontaneous act. The Russians were stacked up at the border with all those tanks and military long in advance. Check out a map and you see some huge mountains separating the two places.
But the most glaring fact here is that the US has lost it's voice in the world. We can't complain anymore about putin and medvedev's expansionism since we ourselves now invade sovereign nations when our dictator feels the need to satisfy his oil buddies and the rest of the Military industrial complex.
Faccia soltanto ad un'altra nazione che gradireste fatta alla vostra nazione.
(Do unto other nations only what you want done to yours.)
Ciao, the news sux so I'm gonna go to the night market
MountainMan23 @ 18:
Only the shadow knows. My take is Saakashvili is just one stupid moron. A U.S. trained idiot lawyer way over his head.
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 20:
I took the spelling Sakashvilli from here, although there appear to several variations on the same page.
Saakashvili appears to be preferred.
If Georgia didn't have oil and was close to the Black Sea Bush/Cheney would have nothing to do with that country. Yes Russia knows what the US was up to and busted it. Notice the idiot Bush is in China acting like a complete idiot. No wonder Daddy Bush is always crying because his son make a fool of himself and other World Leaders are laughing.
MountainMan23 @ 18:
If the Georgian people placed their faith in Bush and his crime family after all these years of lies, thief and murder, they deserved whatever happens to them....sorry.
someguy @ 2:
Figures they would support mercenary thugs that ruthlessly attacked the civilian population of south Ossetia in an effort to force them to give up their demands for autonomy.
If the bellow article is true there may be a naval blockade on Iran.
Massive US Naval Armada Heads For Iran
Operation Brimstone ended only one week ago. This was the joint US/UK/French naval war games in the Atlantic Ocean preparing for a naval blockade of Iran and the likely resulting war in the Persian Gulf area. The massive war games included a US Navy supercarrier battle group, an US Navy expeditionary carrier battle group, a Royal Navy carrier battle group, a French nuclear hunter-killer submarine plus a large number of US Navy cruisers, destroyers and frigates playing the "enemy force".
The lead American ship in these war games, the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN71) and its Carrier Strike Group Two (CCSG-2) are now headed towards Iran along with the USS Ronald Reagon (CVN76) and its Carrier Strike Group Seven (CCSG-7) coming from Japan.
They are joining two existing USN battle groups in the Gulf area: the USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN72) with its Carrier Strike Group Nine (CCSG-9); and the USS Peleliu (LHA-5) with its expeditionary strike group.
Left&Left @ 25:
Well, how can you blame a people? Even if you could, the blame is much smaller than of the morons who actually voted for Bush&Co. I imagine the people of Georgia are still living very hard lives in a post cold war bubble, and to them America is still, for some reason, a beacon of hope. The "people" of Georgia don't have the luxury of wasting hours daily on political blogs and "knowing" things.
McCain OMG I just dont understand the democrats that are kissing his brite white arse
Notice how this has become forgotten already? Edwards=Big news. War=yesterdays fodder.
It makes me sick to see the US media and politicians whining about the mean russians invading and destroying Georgia but finding the destruction of Lebanon by Israel absolutely justified, and this after having invaded and destroyed Iraq for no legit reason whatsoever: I can only imagine the effect on the US popularity in muslim countries...
hope this isnt removed for being ot
but did anyone else hear wesley clark on the rachel maddow show today?
he sounds tired, beaten and totally pissed off at the dems
and why isnt the msm up in arms that the chimp in chief hung out at the olympics during a real crisis?
and why isnt the msm reporting on how rice was in georgia in july
and that we have been training the georgians and that we did involve ourselves in the conflict when we airlifted the 3k georgians in iraq right to the front
and why in the fuck do the neocons want to bring on ww3
and why in the fuck didnt our senate and congressional leaders cancel vacation to reconvene and start impeachment proceedings
and why in the fuck, other than for president, should i vote dem in november?
Bush Visiting Georgia. Land of Free Markets and Zero Regulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaCaPibdCCw&feature=related
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 31:
Rachel got a show?
For everything else... Don't vote:/
The irony parallel isn't 100% but Carter boycotted the Olympics over a Russian invasion while Bush attends the Olympics and shakes Putin's hand. That's Bush.
FC @ 30:
good job figuring out a way to get a dig at israel on a totally unrelated topic
the fucking us media and pols saw no prob in our country starting an illegal and immoral war...that isnt good enuf for you?
and israel had more of a cause to go into lebanon, as a result of real terrorist attacks, then america did
but keep pushing the anti israel bullshit
all it does is causes jewish libs to pull farther away from the haters in this party
Look at the expression on Bush's face as Putin "discusses" the situation with Bush at the Olympics
Bush & Putin At Olympics
And here's another photo from later:
Bush Glares At Putin
Uncle@31, I feel your apathy, rather, fustration. But who are we going to vote for? Barr? McCain? I guess this when the rug is pulled from under us. What is a patriot to do? I have to vote for Obama. There is no other way. Unless Hillary somehow sneaks in during the convention.
Olsonist @ 33:
the carter boycott remains a stupid move
but the bush acting like an idiot for 3 days while the world was truly on the brink does not only show stupidity, but derelction of duty
he needs to be removed from office
P.D. @ 36:
You cry out in despair at a broken system and you think Hillary is a good patriot's choice?
it's funny how the msm parrots the right wing line even if it's implausible bs. russia is the bad guy here and that's the story the msm is sticking with.
MountainMan23 @ 35:
Checkmate Mr. Boosh
Was Bush Drunk at the Olympics? http://tinyurl.com/59bbt5
http://tinyurl.com/59s58f
http://gawker.com/5035885/bush-looking-drunk-at-the-olympics
P.D. @ 36:
i said other than prez
and i guess you havent been reading the articles on how really piss poor hillary managed her campaign
i dont want that woman for higher office ever
i dont want anyone who would hire mark penn anywhere near the oval office
for all i care, she and bill can go on permanent vacation in the bahamas
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 34:
Israeli troops crossed over into Lebanon. Two were killed, the rest captured when their tank was blown up by Hezbollah.
So Israel, backed my the US, launched scorched-earth tactics on the Lebanese civilian population, topped off by dropping some 4 million US-made cluster bombs in the last 24 hours of the war while peace talks were under way.
Is that the Israel you're defending?
tr @ 38:
Not just that ..
MSNBC has an online vote, "How should the US punish Russia?"
MountainMan23 @ 35:
bush has no one to blame but himself
what happened in georgia proves that his intelligence infrastructure is even worse off now than before he took office
everyone in his administration needs to be tried, convicted and hung for treason
Snowball @ 4:
You got it spot on. And the American people will fall for it hook, line and sinker. But the Democrats played the same game during the 1990's during the breakup of Yugoslavia, only the Republicans seem much more effective at it. In both cases the media plays along. It all makes me think that those advocates for a third-party aren't so crazy after all. It's the rest of us who are.
MountainMan23 @ 42:
this is totally ot, and will most likely be deleted by the admin
but you neglect to not the many incursions and missle attacks instigated by terrorists from both lebanon and gaza during this period
but thats ok...thats what you guys do
and you are saying that israel sent troops over, and that is how the two were captured...despite the fact that those two were in israel proper when that occured
btw, there are vids created by hezbollah regarding the training for that very same operation
and im still happy that you and your ilk remain far out of the mainstream...and will always remain out of the mainstream
Another accomplishment I suppose we can add to the Bush legacy: "He reinstated the Cold War."
Snowball @ 4:
dont you think rice, during her july visit to georgia, gave them the ok for that operation?
but russia has been goading them into some sort of conflict, so their hands are not clean
and russia has been courting the "independent" state of south ossetia, with promises of tons of oil monies
this is not a simple situation
but what it shows is that the bush admin is corrupt and inept
MountainMan23 @ 35:
That first one shouts NUMBNUTS.
Uncle@41, I didn't mean to piss you off. Your are right, Hillary ran a piss poor campaign. Hey, I would join you in the Bahamas, but by the time Bush is done, we will all be piss poor!
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 46:
Israel's initial attack on Lebanon has been white-washed from the Corporate Media exactly the same way the Corporate Media is neglecting the inconvenient FACT that it was Georgia's attack of the South Ossetian city of Tskhinvali that precipitated Russia's intervention.
In both cases there were indeed numerous provocations back and forth on both sides. But the fact remains that it was Israel who escalated to the level of attacking Lebanese civilians with massive firepower and it was Georgia who escalated to the level of attacking Ossetian civilians with massive firepower.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 48:
Here I go again mentioning the Kosovo situation if only to remind liberal Democrats that our hands aren't clean either. You say this isn't a "simple situation" but neither was the situation in the Balkans, yet most of us picked sides, black hats and white hats, with no shades of grey, and bought hook, line and sinker everything the media and the Clinton administration told us about it at the time. These two situations are so similar it's uncanny.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 34:
Apparently you never heard of Jonathan Tasini who ran against sHillary for US Senator from New York.
Himself a Jew he strongly condemned sHillary's cheerleading for Israel's genocidal attacks on Lebanon.
Some Jews are as anti-Zionist as I.
Check it out !
MountainMan23 @ 51:
oh...so georgia...knowing that russia has superior man and fire power...honestly believed that they could get away with an incursion into south ossetia?
now who is kidding who?
and what should israel have done that summer
lets say that tomorrow, canada begins missle attacks, kidnaps our servicemen, and starts supplying mexico with arms and money to do likewise
think we would just kick back and do nothing?
no....we would bomb the ever loving shit out of em
and if they chose to place their military targets (the way hisbollah did) within civillian areas...think we wouldnt have struck those areas?
your hatred has blinded you
Snowball @ 4:
The corporate media having a plethora of neo-clown experts ready with the appropriate opinion sure reminds me of a another incident on the PNAC wish list that happened not too long ago.
MountainMan23 @ 53:
protecting your own people has nothing to do with being zionists
and i have nothing but contempt for a self hating jew like tasini, who most likely has never visited israel, and never has known anyone who has died or been injured in a terrorist attack
and its so easy for you, sitting there in your safe little living room to condemn a state that daily must repel terrorist attacks
you experienced one...and that was on tv
think about it happening every day
oh, why do i bother
anti zionist is the same as anti jewish
you know what...eff this noise
friggin nbc has totally forced the shut down of all the internet feeds of the olympics
causing me to miss phelps winning his 4th and watching hoff being left out of the medals
and i wanna watch the little girls jumping around
bastards
why should i, living on the west coast, be forced to watch everything tape delayed
During the last years Georgia broke all records, having increased its military budget by 30 times.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01PfdVO8HZd17/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bA5biJ9uGdik/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06HybwBe7DdPq/340x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/002y4UEgAJdBV/610x.jpg
Widespread @ 15:
It may succor, butt tits mai whoriginal werx.
L.A. Confidential @ 58:
ya...and we supplied and trained them
therefore what?
the big news is that we didnt know this was going to happen
cool i found a feed
and sloane sticks the vault
enuf of war...the olympics is on
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 60:
What are these guys Crusaders with those Flags or something?
I fear that in my lifetime we will go to war with Russia, and it will be horrible.
The horrors of ww2 are out of memory, when my generation takes office, it will think war as a piece of cake (only 4000 dead americans in iraq - pales in the loses in ww2)
The drumbeat for war with russia was on the minds of too many, that fringe is bigger than it should be.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 60:
Yeah I guess they thought Russia's rag tag army was going to run off and cower.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 34:
sorry, but as i am of lebanese origins it is deeply relevant to me and to my family there. they hate the US and THEY HAVE LEGIT REASONS TO DO SO. remember this next time you'll wonder why they'll attack your country again...
Widespread, it werx for me ! You have such a way with werds.
"..And it looks like the neocons are getting excited that we might go and fight Russia."
Have none of them ever played the board game "RISK"? Never attack Russia!
Ask Napoleon...ask Hitler...ask any Russian!
"I'm giving you 2 minutes to call your little boy toy and order him to HALT"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/OldBuffalo/GWBush/bushputin2.jpg
L.A. Confidential @ 22:
Agree 100%. The Neocons backed a hothead in Georgia with an attitude problem. In other words, they supported one of their own. But you gotta admit Neocons are consistent. They are 0 for 3 in war.
Guess what happy smiling private army is in Azerbaijan next door to Georgia ?
and guess what private army is possibly in Georgia too ?
ferrofluid @ 73:
America’s Monroe Doctrine + Roosevelt Corollary/”Good Neighbor” Policy = Russia’s “Near Abroad”
In short, Putin/Medvedev can tell Bush/Cheney to get bent…
putin looked in bush's eyes and saw a soft, stupid, priviledged plutocrat trying to act like a hard man.
WASHINGTON — Scrambling to find ways to punish Russia for its invasion of pro-Western Georgia, the United States and its allies are considering expelling Moscow from an exclusive club of wealthy nations and have scrapped plans for an upcoming joint NATO-Russia military exercise, Bush administration officials said Tuesday.
Looks like it is going to be a very clod winter in Europe if someone doesn't calm down,
and if you thought the terrorists had weapons before keep pissing off PUTIN.
and he can shut down or make it very very hard for oil to get here,
Cheney may play with anthrax but PUTIN plays for keeps
FC @ 31:
"US popularity" ........ I have to vote that as the best oxymoron of the day. You had little of it and have driven it into a negative, and are doing nothing but accelerating the downward trend at the moment I'm affraid.
Nikola @ 6:
I suggest a route cause analysis.
P.D. @ 30:
US attention span what ? ............
Barrett D @ 66:
And all the US has proved lately is that it can fight two wars and one occupation badly. Putting a broken and strained military up against Russia (who would have China's backing) ........... hmm, that can only spell draft.
Though I can't see it happening.
JHR @ 1:
Though in the US it's do as they say, not as they do. For now .......
Though the hypocrisy of this is ridiculous :
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12/georgia.us/index.html
They could just send americans there to tell everyone how amazing they, are that is punishment enough.
Dennis @ 77:
And who else plays nicely with Russia at the moment, opposed to being a bunch of jingoistic twats, China & Iran. The US is doing a great job of isolating the world against them, and guilt by association for anyone who deals with them and takes Washington's dollars it seems.
Snowball @ 4:
the fact that cunti rice was in georgia last month, probably putting bushcos stamp of approval on the invasion has gone unreported. the majority of civilian casualties was caused by georgia. and foolishly, obama took the side of bushco and fell into their trap. i think they are only stoking the fear factor to play to mccains supposed military leader strength... either way it is very dangerous to play with russia and their allies this way...
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 59:
that is like saying anti-neocon is the same as anti-american...
it is just short sided and silly...
That's why Obama didn't wast his vacation time with these freaks. All of this was staged to attempt to show McCain as some kind of a hero.
I put noting pass these ass holes who are in their last stages of screwing the people of this country.
Georgia started it and Russia finished it, period.
Widespread @ 11:
At this point just about everything the U.S. does that contains military threats looks more like the Black Knight skit from Monty Python's Holy Grail. You know, that scene where King Arthur has cut the Black Knight's arms and legs off, and he says "Alright, we'll call it a draw."
L.A. Confidential @ 71:
Boy is that embarrassing. I feel genuine pity for the poor guy.
Nevermind what the American Empire is up to in Iraq or with Israel to inflict pain,suffering,death and destruction on Palestine,Lebanon and now of course Iran.
American Empire and Israel are allowed to do whatever they please.
But Russia can not. Russia is "evil" empire. Russia must now be "punished" for doing what Americans do.
The American neo-cons surely are tickled pink to have back Russia to kick around and drum up some good old fashioned American militarism spend and spend lots more American politics over. The Evil Empire is always good for lots of fearmongering, boogey man scares and playing to/on American ignorance and arrogance to pump up Pentagon and CIA budgets and spend fests.
Americans currently shelling out around one trillion per year for Pentagon and CIA as is. Hell--with Russia now fair game for some more good old fashioned fearmongering and warmongering over it should be easy as pie to get another 300-500 billion more to pump into Pentagon and CIA yearly budgets now. It is all about Americans "security" and idea that only Americans can have Empire.
During last ten years Americans have been meddling and messing around in old ex-Soviet Union lands working out energy and military deals. It is certain that if Russia had done anything similar to this to Americans the Americans would have been outraged at such Russian audacity.
So Americans can have open season on Iran. Inflict lots of death and destruction on Iraq. Let American proxy Israel do whatever Americans and Israel feel like doing to Palestine,Lebanon,Syria and Iran. This is A-OK. Because it is Americans and Israelis doing it.
Russia? If it does not submit and kowtow to American Empire it is evil,wicked and out of bounds and in violation. Must be punished. Must suffer for not doing what Americans think Russia should be doing. For not being what American neo-cons would like Russia to be like. Americans can sniff around Russia's borders meddling in ex-Soviet Union lands--thats OK. But Russia can not react in ways Americans do not like. That is evil and bad.
Americans will run out of moral/ethical/political capital keeping with this convoluted approach. As for treasure Americans have been borrowing and spending for Iraq Adventure at a velocity that is heading towards flame out stage.To add on to this already precarious stance more "Russia and then China too must be contained and imtimidated" spending sprees and more American hypocrisy really is a truly bad idea and course of action.
No matter---Americans likely will plunge into doing so. Brilliant Americans! God, Flag and Empire! American Manifest Destiny!
Why do they hate us?
No offence boys & girld but....geographically and from the bubble of precise information you have been allowed to read in schools, our overall knowledge of what is really happening is usually a bit off the mark.
You really want to know how people in that region feel? Then go to the link below and listen to what they have to say. Incidently, those on blaming the Neocons are on the right track but it wasn't just the NeoCons who voted the Ass-hole in. The USA is a military-oriented country. Until the general populance says let's feed people instead of waging wars, then really....are you not all to blame.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5212&edition=2&ttl=2...
Here are a couple of comments from the blog I just mentioned. Interestingly, the blog from Rob-England is a good example of how the US is looked upon since Iraq.
Irma kaikatsishvili
You say Georgia was independent for centuries, it is true, you do have an ancient country and culture.
Butwhen Georgia was in fear of the Ottoman Empire your Georgian leader came to the Russian tsar and asked for protection, and offered that Georgia becomes a part of Russia. You should be grateful, as Russia saved you from the Ottoman Empire.
Concerning Ossetians - you had conflicts with them in 1992, so you can't co-exist peacefully.
Polina Hermione, St. Petersburg, Russia
Time is the great healer. Russia must be peeved with the Georgian leader childish behavior.His brazen attempt to retake South Ossetia regardless of the human loss of life and without the will of the South osetian people themselves will take some time for the Russians to have meaningful dialogue with Georgia.
Nilio Gumbs, Kingstown
It is very pity that Georgian people elected such president as Saakashvili twice... How they are sharing this shame altogether..The politician foolishness costs one dear...
Galina, St. Petersburg
Western mass media well reminds me soviet propaganda. US now uses the same methods that SU used in the past: they quote lies of leaders and plain people and 'forget' to sorry when it's become clear that it was a lie, they mask the truth under meaningless words that cause nessesery associations. I saw many quotes saying e.g "they are completely without mercy" without noticing who exactly 'they' were. As a result, some people still think that Russia attacked Georgia.
Denis, Russia
I don't think Russia-Georgia relations will be better. Georgia follows the USA plan to surround Russia with hostile states. even if this conflict gets resolved, Georgia, the USA&Co will provoke another one. what's worse is that Saakashvily was pushing the west to the world war 3, calling the USA and NATO to join the conflict. it's sad to see that a lot of ordinary people in the west, knowing very little about what is really happening, seem to want a new war.
Lara, Moscow
BBC article has headline "Defiant but helpless in Tbilisi".
If the report is unbiased, the headline should have been "Arrogance even when helpless in Tbilisi".
Mikhail Saakashvili is western “spoiled kid” and all must treat him accordingly. He should go.
KMR Overseas, Dubai
Time is the great healer. Russia must be peeved with the Georgian leader childish behavior.His brazen attempt to retake South Ossetia regardless of the human loss of life and without the will of the South osetian people themselves will take some time for the Russians to have meaningful dialogue with Georgia.
Nilio Gumbs, Kingstown
News is really pro western and lots of people who don't understand the situation give useless opinions.Recap Misha from Gerogia wants all the privilages that Russians can offer like under price oil prices while adopting a new best friend(US) to create a legal annexation of two territories who don't want anything to with him.Misha starts war hoping the olympics will blind their great so called foes and when he is given a savage beating he runs for to the EU crying Genocide.Shame on you Sakashvili
Nash Ruth, Mauritius
I am constantly amazed by the number Westerners on this forum, who have been so vocal in their opposition to Russia moving troops into a sovereign country (what, send troops in without the backing of the UN? Why, surely that would be a criminal). And to automatically point the finger at "Russian aggression" when in reality, the facts of what has transpired are still unclear. We in the west lost the moral argument, when we took it upon ourselves to "liberate" Iraq without the backing of the UN.
Rob, London
It's not that simple. Yes, South Ossetia was invaded by Georgia, but the level of response is far and away above what is necessary to defend the break-away region. Add to that the fact that the Russians are opening up a second front in Abkhazia, and the refusal to agree to a cease-fire, gives credance to fears that this could spiral out of control.
The sad part is people are suffering. Those that can are leaving the area with what they could salvage from their bombed out homes. Many people are in Georgia are starting to blame Saakashvilli for everything that happened.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 39:
Yet another 'Pet my Goat' moment for the chimpster in charge of decidin' stuff.
Kevin, if this had been us in South Ossetia...and OUR peace keepers had been killed. Sean Hannity would be calling for World War III and Bush would be sending in the bombers. Puleeease...level of response above what is necessary...says who?
One man's revolution is another man's terrorism, one man's "noble war" is another man's "unprovoked war", one man's "martyr" is another man's "villain". It is all perspective.
Georgia provoked, at our behest...that seems clear...whether openly or via a wink and a nod. The Georgian President thought the U.S. cavalry was gonna come over the hill. He gambled, he lost.
There are no good guys and bad guys... There are interests.
South Ossetians are interested in independence from Georgia, and very much so... 99% of 95% of voters in the referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia).
Georgia is interested in US's help, which has been forthcoming until now (of course... they're in the Caucasus...) and in keeping their importance.
Russia did what the US did in the many other similar situations, they went in without UN aproval, responding to Georgian violations.
So Russia has good intentions? As good as US does... I knew from the first time I heard this news, there would be a oil pipeline somewhere over that area... and surprise surprise...
US has no moral ground to condemn Russias actions, plus South Ossetians would probably embrace and incorporation into Russia, uniting with Russian North Ossetia which is its ethnic twin.
It is ironic that Russia, which under Stalin managed some of the greatest ethnic mobilizations and cleanzings is now "protecting" an ethnic community's rights.
Eduardo @ 88:
Well said. The Cold War is over...Saint Ronnie told us so.
The U.S. needs to grow up and understand that it doesn't own the world, it is a part of the world. The best way to start would be to stop putting beanie wearing drunk privileged frat boys in the White House.
[Deleted. Sneering condescension-Sitemonitor]
JHR @ 1:
I think there might be a slight difference in a dictatorship and an elected democracy. I am not saying it is our business to invade other countries, but there is a difference. I can appreciate that the person/people that posts articles on this site are able to word the articles so your little mind automatically agrees with them. It is easier to just agree with what you read and go in the direction the author of the article wishes instead of looking at it from a logical standpoint.
Is drunk boy back from the Olympics yet?
Folks, I have bad news: Mikhail Saakashvili is a protégé and creature of Zbigniew Brzezinski and George Soros, two foreign policy bosses HEAVILY influencing Barack Obama and his presidential campaign group.
Soros financed the coup that put the puppet Mikhail into power. Meanwhile, Brzezinski is, to put it bluntly, INSANE. Read the "Grand Chessboard" and cry. He's obsessed with taking down Russia, even redrew their map showing exactly how he plans to break it up.
This shift in attention from the Middle East to Russia, including the decision to have either Barack or Clinton take over the Master Plan from BushCo, was planned from the gitgo. We are doomed.
The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker @ 93:
Proof please? And evidentally you did not listen to Barack's call for an end to the conflict and to start diplomatic conversations immediately in conjunction with UN peacekeepers. Sure beats your pal Mc Lame's hundred years of war. To imply that Obama is in any way responsible for this conflict is absurd.
something smells fishy, am I the only one who thinks that Bush and Putin are in agreement to let Putin take Georgia and Putin would let Iran fall to US hands?
It is too damn fishy, especially on an election year
the oil!!!!!!!
BMW, the spamcatcher wiped out the post with all the links to the evidence. Just Google. It's not hiding.
"George Soros" + "Rose Revolution" + Georgia
"Zbigniew Brzezinski" + "Barack Obama" Thre is a NY Sun article about the controversy and an article (short) in the Economy titled "Obama's Brain." All sorts of articles both mainstream and alternative. I agree with Brzezinski's attitudes re: the Middle East conflicts, but his fixation on Russia is deeply disturbing. He's obsessed.
I never implied Barack was responsible. His HANDLERS were. Obama is a part of one machine, Clinton is part of another. There is no escape: It's the eternal war for oil. "War is good for business." We are doomed.
The Russian efforts are pretty ironic. The Ossetians themselves launched an ethnic cleansing campaign to stop the Ingush from seperating from them in 1992. The Russians back the Ossetians over the Ingush and like the Chechens they arent going anywhere.
The Ossetians arent even ethnic Russians and they don't speak Russian. What they were is good soviet allies so they get what they want (including 60% of their budget direct from Moscow).
The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker @ 99:
Sorry, the NY Sun is too conservative and pro Israel for me and I don't subscribe to the conspiritorial leanings of the others you referenced. Small wonder the filter took them off. Our fixation on oil is wrong but IMHO, your connection between Soros and Obama re this matter is way overstated but does fit nicely if you subscribe to conspiracy theories. Brzezinski is a well known anti Soviet hard liner but also opposes the Buscovite "war" on terror. I hardly think he is as obsessed as you state.
The moron makes his move:
"Mr. Bush said that a transport plane with medical supplies was already on its way to Georgia, and that American air and naval forces would carry out the aid mission. And he said pointedly that Russia must not interfere with aid arriving in Georgia by air, land or water."---NY Times
Let's see how this is supposed to work: our military attempts to deliver aid; Russia, naturally, objects. The situation heats up to the point of confrontation, maybe further, and we have a crises. America forgets what's happened for the past 8 years and gathers around to support the current administration as it always does in times of crisis. Up goes Bush in the polls and, by association, his appointed successor McIdiot.
Shades of 9/11, it couldn't have happened at a better time for the Republicans.
Figaro @ 102:
Yep, he's got us involved now. Here comes the stand off to see who blinks first.
For some reason, I don't think all of that aid is humanitarian. Smells like Black Op's to me.
Everything is unbelievable. Literally.
BMW:
Conspiracy defined: Two or more people agreeing in secret to do SOMETHING (usually illegal in the case of governments). It's the MO of all governments. It is not a dirty word.
Anyone who, by NOW for lawd sakes given what we know, doesn't subscriibe to conspiracy theories when trying to explain/understand the NeoCONs hasn't been paying attention. Conspiracy IS their modus operandi, and putting our fingers in our ears and going lalalalalalalal when anyone suggests a conspiracy isn't going to make us any smarter. Or safer.
Bottom line: The connection between Soros money, the CIA and Georgia are rock solid, not "overstated." If you want to go straight to the source, just read George Soros' very own "Underwriting Democracy." That oughta do it.
Oh look it's OK, you're twice elected war in chief is going to save the day with more "invasions" ...........err help, that's it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7559252.stm
I think we should send aid. Whatever you might think of the Iraq war the Georgians did assist us. We owe them something. I'm sure if we walked away from them and said nothing while Russia beat them the extreme anti-Bush elements would attack him for that as well. I dont like Bush but that doesnt mean our national interests are suspended until Obama arrives.
The russians are playing cold war games with us and just walking away will enourage them in Ukraine and other places.
The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker @ 104:
If I were you I'd be far more concerned about Randy Schunemann's Georgian connection in Mc Cain's campaign. Did you forget about that for some reason? As for the rest, thanks for your opinion, I have little time to indulge in conspiracy theories which are rooted in fear---the MO of how Neocons govern. Nothing you state changes anything for me given the sources you cite.
bubba @ 106:
Strange theory: The Georgians cooperated with our shameful, fraudulent, murderous war in Iraq therefore they deserve our compassion? Sorry, but I think they deserve whatever they get for being an accessory to that bloody crime. Screw Georgia.
As for confronting Russia in the coming cold war, forget it. Bankrupt, corrupt, and divided, we couldn't face down Bermuda.
Ah, a strategy sure to attract more allies.
Of course, if they had been invaded and occupied Georgia something tells me you would be in here lamenting that GWB did nothing. I'm pretty sure you'll swing at any ball that comes your way.
If there's one thing a corrupt regime like Bush's needs above all it's an enemy
to divert attention from its own crimes and failures. Ergo, the resurrection of Russia as the monster lurking under the bed. Now our pygmy Caesar, Bush, can strut and posture as the Defender of America
for the short time he has left before passing the torch on to that other
moral midget, McCain. Of course it's all baloney. The consensus in Europe is that the Georgian attack on Ossetia was a put-up job hatched in Washington and designed to test Russian resolve and cast Putin as the new Saddam.
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