Can you imagine if Obama sent Biden and Levin to Georgia?
I think Digby is on to something:
I remember reading some stuff recently about how it was unseemly for Barack Obama to go on an overseas trip. Why, he was acting like he'd already won! Now, we have McCain making statements on television that are having an actual impact on an international crisis, and which might even be illegal, and I'm hearing gasbags say he looks very presidential. It looks more like presumptuousness to me.
But then a grizzled old veteran's presumptuousness isn't the same as a young, African American upstart's, is it?
Even Jonathan Martin at the Politico sees something amiss with this one:
I think Greg Sargent is on to something regarding McCain's announcement at his press conference today that Sens. Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman — his two closest friends in the Senate — will be heading to Georgia soon.
Yes, they're both members of the Armed Services Committee. But McCain's declaration has something of a shadow government feel to it, as though he's sending his own emissaries into the war zone.
Try to imagine if Obama had announced that he was sending Biden and Levin to the war zone.
When I heard John McCain say that he was sending Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman over to Georgia because they are on the Armed Services committee I immediately thought this was another Rovian set up.
McCain: After the events of the past six days, no one should wonder why countries on Russia's periphery so ardently seek the security guarantees alliance membership represents. The situation in Georgia remains fluid and dangerous. And as soon as possible, my colleagues, Senator Lieberman and Senator Graham, will be traveling to Georgia.
He wants to prove to the world what a true leader he is. How convenient, but what would have happened if Obama had come out first and said he was sending over Joe Biden and Carl Levin to the same area?
Would we hear screaming from the right wing press and the Villagers that Obama was being presumptuous again---thought he was already President and was trying to be the ruler of the world. Rick Davis would have went on TV and started yelling that Obama was acting like the Celebrity President again because Bush was the real President and only he should be leading the country at a time like this.This whole affair stinks to the high heavens.
CNN:
McCain: After the events of the past six days, no one should wonder why countries on Russia's periphery so ardently seek the security guarantees alliance membership represents. The situation in Georgia remains fluid and dangerous. And as soon as possible, my colleagues, Senator Lieberman and Senator Graham, will be traveling to Georgia.
They're both members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I hope that other members of the Armed Services Committee in the Senate and they will go together and receive an assessment of the situation and what we need to do in the future to avoid further escalation, and also to protect the independence and freedom of the people of this brave, democratic ally, the country of Georgia.
But but but he's a war hero!!
On an earlier post....
tx @ 22:
So he's already calling the shots? So WTF do Graham and Lieberman have the authority to do? And McCain is "sending them". I guess while bush is on vacation McCain gets to be the substitute president. Take the oval office for a spin and see how it feels.
You are right if Obama had pulled a stunt like this the press would verbally take him apart piece by piece. Thankfully, Obama is too smart to do something this incredibly presumptuous.
Libermann and Graham. Pure unadulterated MIC pawns. What are those two traitors going to do, lead charge up Gori valley?
Obama ought to go to Moscow himself and talk to Putin. One thing I learned long ago, you want the promotion, act like you
already have it. When I wanted to be sales manager, I started being sales manager and I became the sales manager.
Stinks to high heaven? Then their work there is done!
"...But then a grizzled old veteran’s presumptuousness isn’t the same as a young, African American upstart’s, is it?..."
Yeah, but if Obama did it, he'd be..well, you know..."uppity." Yass-SUH!
W-w-wait. Is McCain really "sending them?" I mean, he'll SAY anything, but does he have any actual power to tell them to go without some sort of permission? I can't find info on how this works...
Could McCain function without Lieberman and Lindsey? They are like his assistants for everything. Are any other Senators going on this trip with them?
Oh yeah, I'm gonna feel a whole lot better about this situation knowing that Thing One and Thing Two are on the case.
I don't have to imagine what they'd do...
The braying jackass (HT John Cole) brigades of the right would be screaming just what they did when Pelosi went to Syria after meeting with the State Dept and being accompanied by Republican Congressmen -- "NANCY PELOSI!!! SYRIA!!! DICTATORSHIP!!! TERRORISM!!! UNDERMINING THE PRESIDENT!!! LOGAN ACT!!!"
katie @ 7:
This is a very smart move by McCain. I don't support McCain, but he is taking the initiative. Obama should be doing this.
With all McCain's blunders, this is very smart. Don't let your hatred for McCain sway the political facts.
Leadership is action not position!!!
Write that down.
i think i hear shannity saying: "he was a POW for over five years! give him some leeway!"
We must face the fact, because they won't do it for us, that the neo-cons are hypocrites.
I know it is difficult to believe but trust me.
mccain is incapable of a smart move. who cares? we have a multitude of problems here and he's sending 2 complete assholes over there? let russia and georgia work out their own fucking problems.
They're going on a date
But seriously, what is McCain actually DOING? Is he just "taking initiative" by saying this shit, or is something actually going to happen?
By that standard, Obama should just get on the podium and offer tits and beer to all American men of voting age. He'd win by a landslide for that "initiative."
Anyone remember the right wingers going nuts a while ago? Just one example from the Free Republic:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may well have committed a felony in traveling to Damascus this week, against the wishes of the president, to communicate on foreign-policy issues with Syrian President Bashar Assad.
The Logan Act makes it a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to three years for any American, "without authority of the United States," to communicate with a foreign government in an effort to influence that government's behavior on any "disputes or controversies with the United States." Some background on this statute helps to understand why Ms. Pelosi may be in serious trouble.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1813324/posts
Well, there won't be an Obama attack Ad over this, I'm sure. So it's up to pundits, the media and us to at least underscore the irony. In fact, with his utterances McCain is totally upstaging the real President! Presumptuous and arrogant. Yep, even if Obama had given
a "lecture" about Georgia, as did John "Wikipedia" McCain, there'd already be a McCAin attack Ad out on line...let alone sending anyone to Georgia. But the better goldmine, if used, is the lobbyist connection.
Has anyone actually read the text of the Logan Act? "The Act is intended to prohibit American citizens without authority from interfering in relations between the United States and foreign governments." Granted that the reference is from Wikipedia, but to a non-lawyer like me it certainly looks to me like a law that could be applied to lobbyists. How else would you describe the army of lobbyists being paid by foreign governments to lobby in the US Congress?
We can all hope that they will be taken into custody by putin and george will have to go get them funny huh
It is the foreign policy of nyuk nyuk nyuk (John, Joe, Lindsey = Moe, Larry, Curly)
Did I miss something? Was McCain already elected president?
Why is two senators both McCain surrogates of the US Armed Services committee "sent" to Georgia in the first place? Whats their business in Georgia? Diplomacy? I thought that was the Secretary of State mission. And who sent them? McCain?
It's one stunt after another with McCain. After growing up in the 60's and learning to hide under my school desk in the event of a nuclear attack, I was genuinely thrilled with the end of the Cold War.
Never thought we'd find a Presidential candidate (and a President) so eager to see the Cold War reignited.
When McCain said he was sending Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman to Georgia, Lieberman had to tell McCain that they weren't going to Macon, but to a former Soviet Republic.
pissed off patricia @ 8:
All we need is another dumbass president that needs babysitting...but this time it's very much like babysitting since Lindsay is the designated Depends changer for McDump.
Aren't there laws forbiding what McCain is doing?
Maybe we can make a permanent trade. What would be the equivalent of LIEberman and Graham - all of their nuclear waste perhaps?
I told my son the other day it would not surprise me one bit to learn this was all a set up for McCain.
Sad if I am right
There's an implication that he was involved in the decision to "send" them there, but the affirmative statement that they will be going by itself allows him to say that you're jumping to a conclusion and that he never said he had anything to do with it (stop attacking me :( meanie liberal press). Looks like he's doing something when he's just talking loud and saying nothing.
I personally think McCain and his handlers got Georgia to start this war so McCain could look presidential. I mean, he has total access to this Georgian Government. Obama can't get near the guy.
It all seems a bit underhanded.
impeach McCain for senility
Free Ride McCain sends Short Ride Lieberman and Carpet Ride Graham to Georgia.
Wonder what he thinks they can do? Catch a Braves game?
President Chimpy can be the real president, theres no way he was competent and in charge during his drunken antics in China,
so either Cheney was sitting somewhere with his chubby on the button or the USA was leaderless.
example 936; drunk while supposedly in charge of a country, impeach him please Nancy Pelosi.
Obama is going to need to be careful so these old obsolete farts from the old paradigm like Brezinski don't drag him off into starting WW3.
McInsane and Loverboy remind me of those two old buggers in the balcony in the Muppet show. Except those two still had their wits about them.
McCain is probably going on a damage limitation campaign now that we have heard from the people of South Ossetia (sp) thye say that Georgia was alone to blame, it bombed them and killed the people there, actually the Russians came in and saved them. The people have Russian passports and want to be part of Russia. Listen to the International media. Also see the video on Fox, of one girl telling her story, and how nervous it made the Fox person.He tried to shut her up!
dakine01 @ 31:
they are bagmen for the MIC and Bushco , they take the latest install of the bribe to them, plus fresh orders for Blackwater.
Bushco aka Blackwater arms the PKK. CNN story
How bout. . . Russia is in the catbird’s seat; and as long as it is the top oil & gas exporter, it’s going to remain there. Europe will initiate a rapproachement with Russia; and the US — after a face-saving interval — will follow suit.
Lay your bets now.
McSame's determined to start world war III whether he's elected or not. You know Cheney's loving this.
ardyjay @ 34:
'two old buggerers' yes indeed they are, wherever its a GOP log cabin, or a Vietnamese bamboo love shack, theres always a Repug there.
Fritz @ 38:
Cheney can't even fire a shotgun without hitting his partner. How's he going to defeat Russia?
Russia: Georgia can 'forget' regaining provinces.
Here me now or hear me later. We just want to shut, (clap) you up.
Leadership @ 4:
It's an effective strategy (I agree) and provides an excellent sampler for those who really aren't willing to pay that much attention to anything that doesn't concern their own vested interests.
Win-Win.
ferrofluid @ 30:
Lol
Doesn't he need to be president first though...?
That would be highly regrettable..
To McCain and Lieberman rights and wrongs don't matter of course. Here's Mikhail Gorbachev's view:
"What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against "small, defenseless Georgia" is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.
Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a "blitzkrieg" in South Ossetia.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR200808...
Have any of you ever seen such righteous one sided bullshit in your lives as we're all seeing today??
I've just the the signs of more b.s to come MSNBC just aired a 13 minute segment on HIllary at the convention and why she should be treated like a queen and how the DNC and Howard Dean were biased and how it may hurt but they will vote for McCain.
MSNBC had two guest pushing Clinton's side, and no guests in opposition. They've now stopped even pretending they were biased.
And C-span has show AEi and Cato and Heritage repeats -non stop.
Good job regulating our air waves and watching our backs Steny and Harry!! Pathetic hacks.
pissed off patricia @ 3:
Not only this but are the networks even covering this? What the hell is happening!!
Obama should announce "My colleagues, Senator Lieberman and Senator Graham, will be traveling to Georgia." They're his colleagues, too.
Rove and Rice in the area in July 2008...McCain adviser is lobbyist for Georgia and Lieberman and Lindsey being dispatched by McCain the man that acts like he is the President...Bush going on vacation that means beware we are heading for trouble just before Dems Convention or during it, stay tune.
Brewer @ 44:
It stinks of Fallujah and the American forces in Iraq's grand tour of the Iraqi cities, devastating and cleansing them one by one with weapons of mass destruction, ie cluster bombs and low level phosphorous over homes.
L.A. Confidential @ 40:
Did the MSM ever report on how Cheney and his buddy were vacationing with women other than their wives !
Check out Saakashvili's goons.
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/11/07/world/07georgia.ms.html
What a guy
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/europe/08georgia.html?_r=1&oref=...
ferrofluid @ 50:
I'd never heard this. I thought it was just a good old boy's weekend outing of sorts. Shoot some shit, drink some beer, shoot some quail, drink some beer, accidentally shoot one of your hunting partners...
Or if Obama had a lobbyist for soviet Georgia running his campaign and giving him talking points?
McCain is sending people to Russia? For what? Vacation?
Is Bush in rehab? Is Cheney dead? Who's in charge here? Where's Al Haig?
Liberal AND Proud @ 55:
The Lame Stream Media
Now get back to watching Beach Butt Volleyball Citizen!
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 54:
Obama has enough of a problem with Russia hater Bresinski as his foreign policy advisor.
Obama Biden Levin
katie @ 7:
they need state department sanction, which will never be denied to any repug.
This is simply instituionalized bias. It so deep, and so pervasive, the people who do it (the media) can no longer even recognize what are they doing. They don't even question what the Republicans say or do anymore. Obama is different and they need to stamp that out. This country is going to shit and the cable news shows are leading the way.
Lindsey Graham told McLame that he had previously been to Georgia on many,
many occasions, so that's the reason he is being considered to return. BUT,
McLame did not understand(nor did L. Graham) that they were not talking about
going to Macon/Augusta/Atlanta, GEORGIA. Just a slight misunderstanding between an old senile fart and a southern gentleman who could not find his ass with both hands.
L.A. Confidential @ 57:
what's the problem? I don't see it.
Zbig hates freedom as a concept, not necessarily russia, AFAIK. His supposed hatred for russia is based on the lack of cooperation with US corporations.
DL @ 60:
what makes you think any of that is not intentional?
Who does this old geezer think he is, The President?
It will not happen McCain!!!
Why can't the MSM pick up on this? What a hypocrite. It has to be early dementia. I wish they'd test him. In fact, after a certain age -- for the presidency -- it might be a good idea to make it mandatory.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 62:
Perhaps so.
Is Bush cooperating in this somehow by intentionally creating the leadership vacuum into which McCain has presumed to enter as President pro tem ?
Rider3 @ 65:
Yes, except the MSM also keeps gratuitously informing us all that older-than-Methuselah is like the new 40's or something.
As I recall, Obama was pilloried by the Republicans for meeting with foreign leaders as presumptuously and arrogantly acting as if he were president already. No matter that McCain also did, at least in England. Now he is sending his own envoys to Georgia at the same time Bush is sending Rice. I'd LMAO if Saakashvili met with THEM and not Rice. We have a Republican administration and also a shadow Republican administration.
Georgia War a Neocon Election Ploy?
Carol @ 64:
DIEBOLD.
I seem to remember in my alcohol soddened brain something about missiles and Cuba.
bush and cheney and god- only- knows who else whispers to the Georgian president that he ought to kick Moscow, then tweak Moscow and finally poke Moscow in the eye. he does it, and does not expect Moscow to kick back-and with a bigger boot at that! and, tragically, innocent people get hurt.
Yep, the media will spin this as McCain is taking initiative, showing leadership (ummmm, maybe W. should come home from the Olympics and deal with this) but yep, if O. had done this ... shit meet fan.
I haven't been following the latest on the situation in the Caucus, but I can say with at least 90% certainty that Georgia will eventually back down, South Ossetia will remain autonomous, and Russia will not advance on T'bilisi. There will be some kind of mild settlement that probably solves nothing but will put a lid on this thing for a while - at least until after the US Elections.
McCain's sending his lackeys so he can take credit for the "successful peace negotiations" that were going to happen anyway and show the voters how wonderful at foreign policy he is. My guess is Lieberman and Graham want to meet with Georgian President Saakashvili, a corrupt right winger just like Joe and Lindsey, so they can get him to bend over backwards to hammer out a deal quickly by bribing him with aid from the future McCain administration if he helps make his fellow Neocons back in the US look good.
McCain's political career is built on 2 things: 1) Taking credit for things he had nothing to do with and/or opposed to make himself look good, and 2) Using the "War Hero" bit to deflect any and all criticism. This is classic McCain.
What a Douchebag.
...i'm glad aid was quickly sent to Georgia, courtesy of the bush administration-considering how long it took to get aid into the gulf coast after hurricaine katrina. this is what u.s. foreign policy has been reduced to: instigating what would be silly if it wasn't so tragic and the consequences so great. in this handoff and exchange between bush and mccain, 'maverick' will fumble again. using Georgia to tweak Russia is crazy and dangerous. fitting i guess, considering that our own leadership has proven to be both.
A sweet surprise move would be for Obama to send the Senators. "Yes," he would say, "John had a good idea and we have to make sure we do our homework there too."
This could end up really bad. But what the hell, i mean where is Obams crew calling this presumptious? I guess then hes making it a partisan issue since.... in reality for the sake of a campaign it is, Its the presidents job. Not the one that could maybe be's.
I wish someone, anyonee from teh Obama campaign would point outt he hycriscoy of these two flucnk's goign to geaorgia. Lord knows teh msm wont. McCain's a maverick doint you know,
I wouldn't send Lieberman and Graham to pick up a pizza
What I can't imagine is sending McCain or any of the republicans anywhere but to jail.
I wish someone would attack this meida to find out what the hell Condi was doing in Georgia on Aug 10,2008, and why it is that this shit they concocted to try and make this old 73 year old bastard look good, while Obama was on vacation.
Well they need to know that it failed and all they accomplished was the death and distruction of more people. How sick.
This is exactly what this shit is about and they all know it and those idiots in Georgia just went along with this cheap Bush plan and now getting they dame asses kicked, like everyone else that gets in bed with these cheap thugs.
Pat Buchanan wrote an excellent column on the Russia-Georgia situation.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=72405
This must really bite for Saakashvili. For Bush's war in Iraq he supplied 2,000 troops. For his own war in return he gets Lieberman and Graham.
Rick Davis "would have went" on TV? Yikes! A jarring grammar error in an otherwise fine piece.
Lieberman And Graham Are Going To Georgia? Great. Now can John McCain make them stay there forever?
El Cid @ 9:
I have no problem with Lieberman and Graham going to Georgia.
My problem is with them coming back.
Then just attack back, this whole wondering aloud about what they might have done [the rovian smear machine] comes across as persecution whine. Americans won't know the difference but they can be swayed to think we aren't strong.
supremecourtjester @ 88:
Yeah, they'll be back, empty-handed of course.
His whole idea of them going there is to clean up the mess his [i]soulless, clueless advisers [/i] got him into.
I put this on the earlier post - worth repeating - I'm smelling a Rovian rat....
3 little words:
WAG THE DOG
Rent it!
redcat @ 13:
Yes, we have a multitue of problems in this country, but those poor, quiet people are begging for help - not military help - humanity. America always answers that call, regardless of who is sitting in the whitehouse.
Can you imagine Obama or McCain calling Saakashvili an irresponsible warmonger, a murderer and calling for his resignation?
Yeah me neither. Just blame the big bad russians for intervening.
Graham will end up at a gay club in Atlanta...
pmb @ 81:
hahahahahah....excellent!
I have no problem with Dork #2 and Dork #3, going to Georgia, it's that these two turkeys will come back, is the problem. Since it was Georgia's actions that precipitated the mess and who engaged in wreaking havoc on civilians, is not Georgia a terrorist nation. Graham and Lieberman having cavorted with terrorists should not be allowed back into the U.S.
Just in case you havent seen it yet. Here's a link to the Russian girl who was cut off while telling here story in FOX.
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ
Not as blatant as I thought but the host was certainly very unconfortable with truth telling occuring in FOX.
supremecourtjester @ 88:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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