Quick Impressions on the Forum
By John Amato Friday Aug 15, 2008 10:09pm
The Rick Warren forum really tells you all you need to know. Obama tried to be thoughtful in all his responses, some people say he takes too long to answer, but I think he's just trying to think before he responds. In the debates he will have to be quick on the draw and powerful, but he looked comfortable and sincere. I may not agree with all his positions, but he seems right at home on Warren's stage. The crowd was warm to him, but clearly on the Republican side.
On the Supreme Court he attacked Scalia and Clarence Thomas, but I wish he pointed out that they have made the bench a complete right wing activist mill instead of judges deciding cases on facts.
McCain is very good in these intimate settings. Put him on SNL or Jay Leno and he does very well. That's something that shouldn't be taken lightly by us or the Obama camp. When he gives a speech or appears in a debate, he's out of his element and looks lost. He can get quite nasty too. Republicans can give very basic answers in Evangelical settings. McCain proclaimed, I'll be a pro life President. The crowd was warmer to his positions which we all knew would be the case. Tonight he just recited his stump speech. When he responded to a thoughtful position change he's made in the last ten years, it was -drll, drill, drill. All he talked about in the beginning were stories form Vietnam and being in a POW camp. He opened by praising Gen. Petraeus and then went on from there. My God, he had no shame when it came to that.
McCain refused to address the classes when it came to wealth. What constitutes being rich and so forth. Obama was very clear on that issue.
It will be interesting to see how the media reviews both of them. Will they call out McCain's pandering to his own military record? I understand that's what he's running on, but to me he trivialized his experiences there.
UPDATE: David Gergen brought up the point that Obama was able to connect with Evangelicals and addressed the Muslim smears pretty effectively. He thought McCain's POW stories helped him the most and was effective as well.
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I wish he had flew an f 104 starfighter.
"will they call out McCain..."? Comedy Gold!
"McCain is very good in these intimate settings. Put him on SNL or Jay Leno and he does very well. That’s something that shouldn’t be taken lightly by us or the Obama camp."
No shit.
The MSM is drooling over McCain. Buchanon said Obama acted like a college sophomore taking a test. McCain was well coached and seemed to know the questions coming. He pandered to the base with a stump speech and prepared stories.
Sounded curiously like McCain had seen the questions in advance.
Maybe I'm just cynical.
McCain answered the questions with less thought and exhibited less intellectual maturity than my high school students. That was depressing, but not unexpected.
I rather have a "slow"deliberate,thought out talk-than a CAN SPEECH provided on QUE CARDS by LOBBYIST!!
Warren = Hempkin
What a biased farce that steaming stack of dung by Rick Warren was? Obviously biased toward McCain. Obama had better observe and analyze.
And Foxnews still has that liar Carl Cameron on. Am I the only one who remembers him making up quotes from the DNC from the last election and putting them on his website.
John A--i'm not picking on ya, honest, but merely to suggest that anything McC said "trivialized his experiences there" is, in the eyes of the TM, itself a deprecation (or trivialization, if you will) of his service. No MSM commentor, and few if any writers, will even go near your (correct) observation that McC too frequently, and too insubstantially, invokes his Viet Nam experience.
No, but when he invokes his service to wiggle out of a question about government health care, or
erroneously evokes the Pittsburgh Steelers to pander to a battleground state, and when he explains why he likes Abba's "DAncing Queen" because his knowledge of music ended when he "met a North Vietnamese ground to air missile", that's a pattern. In short, this has become not only the McCAin "trademark", but his fall-back position. Something I know some vets have noticed and not appreciated. Of course, they' re not in the VFW....
mofo @ 10:
I hear you.
To me McCain did awful and he really showed his lack of intelligence. Quick well rehearsed answers doesnt impress me. Obama was thoughtful serious and seemed a lot more honest and personal. McCain just did his usual campaign speech selfpromoting and fearmongering.
I wish Warren would have pressed McCain more on the personal faith issue. McCain is so out of his element on faith that he immediately ran away to Vietnam when questioned about it.
I hate to say it but McCain did very very well. He was emotional about talking about the war and funny and personable.
Obama held his own, but questions that McCain answered easily Obama seemed to make harder than they probably should have been. They were thoughtful but grave-sounding answers but I wish they'd come out easier... if he had just smiled a little more it would have made a huge difference.
Hope this is an anomaly.
Koshchei @ 9:
I can't wait until the Unitarian Church or the United Church of Christ hosts the same "Chat 'n Chew" (cause it wasn't a debate at all!!) I'm watching CNN and honest to God, if his wasn't a set up by the Ev-angelic-ills, I don't know what is!! And the fact that Obama bought into it is really head shaking!
lmab @ 4:
seems like it. mccain says at one point about going back to the supreme court justice question. how did he know it was coming? were both candidates briefed?
Today's worst person in the world...
At 10:15pm (EST) after the forum on CNN Politics, David Brody said "Lets call a Spade a Spade" while questioning Barack Obama about one of his Senate votes.
Some people are stupidly insensitive...
I hope someone got video of this....
All in all, I think this "debate" helped Obama pick up a few new voters who might have otherwise shrugged him off. His theological and well-thought-out responses were insightful and on-point. Big pluses! McCain gained nothing from this exhibition of pandering aside from confirming to his own base that he's more conservative than he's ever presented himself to be. In the long run, this could hurt him... Maybe I'm wrong...
obama makes a more credible G*d-fearing Christian than mccain...
this forum proves that evangelicals are not nuanced thinkers.
mccain just used his stump speeches including that pro-american french president bit.
i agree he shamelessly used his vietnam war experiences to tug at the heart of crowd. cant believe how many times i rolled my eyes during his time. i had to go to the dara torres 50m race just to rest my eyes.
Also: McCain said he was okay with attending a forum at a church. I wonder if he'd answer in the affirmative if asked to have a debate/conversation in a mosque.
even baby jesus wants a smart guy this time
Did anyone else notice that the amount of time given to Obama was about 18 minutes and ALL the rest was given to McCain?
Even with that time he still refused to really answer the questions and instead went on the stump.
McCain had the advantage with the religious right base and he said the things that were expected. Obama did, however, dispel the Muslim myth and he appeared to be a learned Christian.
McCain satisfied his base, but Obama picked up votes.
John's right. Many of us foolishly thought McCain would embarrass himself tonight. We'll have to wait for the debates for that.
My friends, I know you American patriots will remember how bad i was treated in the Viet Prison, but let me talk about that for a while so I don’t have to answer the real hard questions my friends. Let me remind you of my heroism and bravery my friends. Let me pander to your religious overtones here in this great megachurch setting my friends. At conception my friends, Alito was a good choice and I would get rid of Ginsburg my friends. And my friends, the person I would turn to for advice would be General Patreaus my friend and some other generals my friends.
Yes my friends, I will say just about anything you people want to hear my friends, just elect me my friends cause I know how to win, I know how to get OBL I will follow him to the gates of hell my friends.
on the other hand ….. OBAMA was great! he had real answers and didn’t pander on everyone of them.
On the whole (or should I say hole) I feel bad that America had to endure a Debate given in a church type setting by a pastor with questions (5 in all) that were in regards to faith.
IT JUST SUCKS!
The balance of national security and civil liberties can be addressed by defeating card check legislation.
F!!!in amazing.
baby jesus @ 21:
Jesus said, get down on your knees and pray for forgiveness.
Don't believe my words for it, i'm agnostic. :p
McCain killed, in the sense that he said everything he needed to say to convince the bulk of the morons that they should vote for him. The world is officially screwed. McCain will get a huge bump, I predict.
i am over 60 yrs and i have to tell you
listening to mcfuckhead talk about his
pow days over and over and over is
nauseating to the ninth. he is only
reliving the past and will use this
out-of-touch bully way to continue
bush's 4th term. with what's happening
in georgia south of russia and how
mcfuckhead is acting like he is pres.
and escalating the danger there, it's
time that mcfuckhead was put to rest
and beddy-bye in a rest home for the
morally inept.
Some thoughts...
Apparently Obama did all he could under the circumstances (90% evangelical wingnut audience) without giving the reich-wing any red meat or alienating the liberal base. Mission Accomplished.
I was ready to give credit to Rick Warren. But after reading that he hasn’t held McCain to the same standard as Obama, he’s now just another wanker - like the MSM clowns who’ll be declaring McCain the winner after this sham is done. I mean, what else is new this election season, right?
Win, Lose or Martial Law, if Obama doesn't get a significant increase in the evangelical vote, the Democratic Party should write off these nutballs entirely - as they should have done already, of course.
If McCain doesn't pick a pro-lifer, he's fucked. They'll ever vote for O or stay at home.
Anybody else think McCain was gonna attempt a fake cry in the beginnning
This country has tipped over the edge in so many ways, and this fiasco tonight was just another few feet in the free fall. I find this church/faith/evangelical BS pandering extremely offensive. I'm sorry but this kind of pushes me just a little too far over the cliff. After all of the other "compromises," my enthusiasm level is definitely at the bottom of the hill. Does anyone actually think some right wing thumpers watched this travesty and said to themselves, "Oh, by golly, I'm going to do a 180 and vote for Obama now?"
I feel sick.
IMHO, McCain kept bringing his off topic answers around to his POW experience and Warren just let it happen. Warren seemed to let McCain have a lot more latitude in his responses.
Obama was definitely more thoughtful in his responses and I will have to disagree with John that he needs to be quicker on the response in the debates. I think the people on the fence are people who take time out to think and I believe they will respect that Obama takes time to form his response instead of just blurting out a boiler plate answer... I could be wrong but that's how I see it.
I do agree with John that he needs to be more powerful in his responses in the debates. While this was not the forum to hammer McCain on his flawed policies the debates are and Obama needs to pull out all stops. Obama has the right ideas and he needs to show why he is correct and McCain is incorrect.
_
dadams @ 29:
Yep, as I stated just above this post, he uses that over and over and over ad nauseum. he used it to get out of answering the real questions asked, he just kept on stumping.
Nathaniel @ 6:
And plays well in the heartland...in the land of equivalency diplomas.
Ivan @ 20:
Well, if you know any Imams, or Rabbis for that matter, why not ask them to proffer the invitation to the candidates and see if they accept.
I still have some problems with having candidates for the Presidency of the USA being questioned about moral and religious faith issues in a church, by a pastor, with 3,500 Christians in the arena. Seems like a religious "test" to me, something I believe is a no-no according to the founding documents.
I am a registered independent voter, have been for a long time, though I am definitely leaning to Obama. I am leaning that way for exactly what happened tonight. He demonstrated again that he is intelligent, takes the time to think through issues, and applies good judgement. I also think he is demonstrates genuine humility - which can be tough for a guy with an ego big enought to get himslef in the presidential contest.
I think McCain rarely demonstrates any of the above, and did so again tonight as he repeated his regualr talking points to "MY FRIENDS" yuk....
I was under the impression that the candidates would be "grilled" on their personal lives. So all McShame does is say his greatest personal failure was the failure of his first marriage, and that's it??? No questions about his adultery with Cindy? Their getting a marriage license while he was still married to Carol? His children not speaking to him?
While Obama was candid about his search for self during his formative years, and his already admitted drug experimentation, no mention (or question) about McCain's years of drinking and whoring that would have gotten him kicked out of Annapolis had it not been for his powerful daddy?
I totally agree that McCain had been briefed on the questions, because this putz can't think that quickly on his feet. Not that there was any thought behind his answers...
So the moral of the story is, when asked tough questions in front of "christians", the best course is to either give canned responses or simply lie. That about sums up the "moral right"
PEACE
Mr. Bonestripper @ 31:
Yes!
I thought he was going to fake crying when he was talking about the guard scratching a cross in the ground.
.
So did Senator McPOW discuss why he succumbed to TORTURE and signed a false confession to make his captors STOP the TORTURE...?
... And how this parsed with his current stance against/for/against(as long as it's for National Security) torture?
.
Whew, now that this inquisition torture is over, what else will the MSM put them through?
The comfy chair ?!!!
McCain proclaimed, "I’ll be a pro life President."
Good, then I assume he is anti-war? No? Oh, wait, Republicans have a different definition of "life".
I cannnot believe the "call ins" at CSPAN after the dog and pony show. I watched
it on CSPAN and thought that Obama did an outstanding job of giving thoughtful
answers, whereas it almost seemed as if Rev. Warren, when interviewing McLame,
had a completly different agenda...in fact, the two interviews were not anywhere in
the same ball park. With McLame allowed time and time again to give his little "war
stories" and address the audience and that crap of "My Friends" really grated on my
nerves. Any intelligent person who watched this "show", and who has any brains
up above their shoulders, should admit that Obama walked all over McLame as if
walking on water. And, any person anywhere who at anytime votes for McLame
is one sick individual and needs immediate care in some sort of mental facility.
McLame was Lame, Lame, and Lame....an embarrasment to the Rep. Party.
.
Did they distinguish between being a Fighter Pilot and a Bomber?
.
Freedom of choice...bye bye. Get back in that kitchen and feed those babies.
Middle class...bye bye. Want a workin' wage. Join the military.
Public education...bye bye. Want an education. Join the military.
Universal healthcare...bye bye. Want healtchare. Join the military.
USA USA USA!
ProudLiberal @ 24:
He did that already - and it could cost him Colorado
"The Moment of Conception."
A willfully ignorant, naively simplistic Fundie suck-up answer. Even Scalia admits that the current Constitution does not confer such status.
PorridgeGun @ 30:
If you look at Matthew25.org Obama has support from TRUE Christians.
_
.
Did anyone address the impact of having an EVILgelical leader toss questions to presidential candidates on a National platform held in that EVILgelical leaders house?
Did anyone ever ask when America will be voting for the next Christian Ayatollah?
.
It's too early to focus on the evangelical vote, or the upcoming debates, or the attack ads.
The Clintonites need to have their catharsis first.
i just posted my thoughts at TP:
what?!?
no live-blogging of the saddleback church mcPOW/obama talk show?
rick warren asked some good questions, the same questions, basically, for each man… just prefaced, set up, to each according to the desired and expected answers…
you’re gonna hear it - mcWAR kicked butt in that element…
HOO-RAH. BUMPER STICKER POLICY!
i think it was obvious mcTALKINGPOINTS was “prepared”, coached right on through that “cone of silence” as to how to respond.
imagine that…
good on you john/C&L for putting up this thread...
oh, and NOW i'll read through this all...
Liberal AND Proud @ 44:
pretty much sums it all up.
the person he would go to for advice is patreus (and some other general.)
Yep, if you want to find out if the gaurds in the prisons are beating the prisoner ... ask the guards.
Well, I'm totally disgusted now so i'm going out and have my lunch with a couple of Bloody Marys and forget the fact that I actually watch that sharade.
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 43:
Of course not, otherwise McStain might have had to admit that perhaps his greatest personal failure was bombing civilian villlages and killing innocent Vietnamese, and that doesn't fit well into his war hero persona.
And as an adoptive parent, I take personal offense to the tailor-made "should we do more for the poor orphans?" question. Yes, fuck over the poor children in America with your economic policies. It's all okay, John, because Cindy brought home a baby from another country.
PEACE
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 48:
yeah ... see post 25 above.
The whole idea of presidential candidate having to submit to religious questioning is the worst thing I have seen happening in the country.
It sucks big time.
spencers mom @ 53:
Or how about starting a fire on the deck of the Carrier that cost the lives of other Navy men? Nope... too much of a Maverick to let this slip... NO?
Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about Vietnam. That was 40 years ago. I don't dwell on my failed first marriage which was 30 years ago. No sane person wants to keep repeating the past. It is becoming more obvious that McCain is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which makes him a dangerous person.
Obama knows that this audience favored the old man. All he really wanted to do was make it clear to the public that he is a Christian and he was also trying to siphon off 10% of the Evangelical vote which he may have succeeded doing.
I can't believe my ears.....CNN talking heads just said Obama needed to be more 'specific' on issues.........that McCain gave clear, concise answers........ Huh?
Just an Old Lady @ 58:
Why think in America when we have people paid to think for us...?
I don't think McCain needed to see the questions beforehand. It seemed to me more like Rick Warren tailored his questions around favorite McCain stump speech sound bites that he knew his congregation already liked but that hadn't been answered to their satisfaction by Obama in his stump speeches.
So much for Warren's giggly adulation and chumminess with Obama in the beginning. Typical evangelical preacher two-face.
Norman @ 32:
That's the thing, Obama walked into a hostile environment (I don't care if they treated him with respect...it was full of wingnuts) and didn't give them an inch. If you re-watch his entire hour of being questioned, he answered on his terms. Barack didn't hand the Republican nutbase any read meat and he didn't alienate his liberal base, which was more important. And he picked the right two Supreme Court justices he was against, Scalia and Thomas.
Just an Old Lady @ 58:
Get used to it. During the upcoming Presidential "debates" Obama will mop the floor with McCain's ass, and the MSM Court Composers will subsequently wax spoogily rhapsodic about how McCain "won." Wanna bet?
I know that none of you want to hear this but I certainly hope that the Obama camp was watching this and can make some adjustments when the debates come up. You have all been watching this process for a year now but some people have only just tuned in and they make their decisions on what was said in this forum. Instead of discrediting McCain on a personal level you should be talking about the policies that he believes in because that is how Obama is going to win. Otherwise you just sound like the people that tried to discredit John Kerry on his war record and that wasn't pretty.
PorridgeGun @ 46:
.. probably thought he was still campaigning for Senate .. it always got cheers in Arizona!
From the sound of the reaction he may as well have proposed banning prayer at high school football games ..
Just an Old Lady @ 58:
Surely they're not talking about the "rich" question? I couldn't believe how specific Obama was. McCain, being rich, thought it was a joke.
If McCain were in court he would be blasted for non-responsive and narrative answers.
Warren told Obama "No stump speeches".
If Warren didn't get a direct answer from Obama, he asked again.
Warren gave the old warhorse his head, and a bag of oats.
So much for 21st Century Christianity - it's less about Christianity than ever before..
The reason Obama has well thought out answers to questions, is because he can. McLame is not now, nor will ever be, on the same intellectual level as Obama.
However, McLame isn't so stupid that he doesn't know to surround himself with "smart" people. Just look at how he is running his campaign already.
Most "educated" people will agree, it's a no-brainer to vote for Obama. Unfortunately, we are the minority. Obama needs to get the gloves off, and do it soon. You can't fight "fair", and hope to win the election.
Obama's superior intellect, combined with the ability to show he knows how to fight, will win more people over than anything. If Obama could somehow get Colin Powell to be his running mate, I don't think McLame would get more than 10% of the vote, but you may not agree with that.
Now take McCain (72 without a clue) to a independent group and watch him squirm and bumble around answers,
But Obama did ok and that is all he had to do with that crowd just show he is not a secret muslim or scary.
Beyond McSame vs Obama -- My enduring (and soon to end one way or another) nightmare:
Some wingnut asshat like Jerome Corsi disseminates some big-assed lie next week about Obama also having had an extramarital affair. Hillary then arises to reclaim Her Rightful Throne in Denver, as the denials come to no short-term avail, the lurid Edwards travesty being fresh in everyones' minds.
He thought McCain’s POW stories helped him the most and was effective as well.
So are they going to wear Purple Heart Band-aids again to the GOP Convention?
Guili had 911, and looks like McBush will be frequently pulling out the POW card as things get tougher.
BUSHED.
Pay it forward.
only as far as 25...
seems i'm not alone thinking mcSPIN was coached somehow...
another observation, strictly superficial - that "church" seems to have been a former furniture store...
and that logo - why was it crooked? a lot of very cheesy looking presentation there...
can't help it - i'm a "graphics artist"...
this is what w. clark tried to do that is" crack that egg"........mccain doesn't have executive experience from his military history....from 40 yrs. ago .....it's a brand and it's something a certain demographic(s) can relate with even if they don't know the issues. they can say his past military is why they're voting for him.
it's clear that with a mccain presidency a lot of critical decision making will be left for generals to decide.
Just an Old Lady @ 58:
Why Oh Why did he participate.
This clusterfuck was an utter waste of BHO's time, & was cannon-fodder for the "race is even, what's wrong w/ BHO" crowd, i.e., the entire Village.
This just in, Dave Gergen on CNN: "Obama is going to have to pick up his game if he hopes to contend in the debates; John M was thoughful, PATRIOTIC, powerful; BHO was thoughtful but he did not move the needle; "we" have to change the way we view this contest."
Get ready for the meme of the week from the Villagers:BHO is a bright guy who is too deliberative to be prez (yes, i know it makes no sense, but counter-intuitive wins in America). Watch his answers be compared to Dukakis's death penalty answer.
Just an Old Lady @ 58:
In other words, they're pissed at Obama for not giving them any soundbites they can play repeatedly that'll get the rapture right all fired up. For example, if he'd put liberal justices on the supreme court or protecting a woman's right to choose, which he has a 100% rating on according to woman's groups. He deftly offered no specifics that the Republicans can attack him with. The FOX Propaganda Network needed those soundbites.
spencers mom @ 54:
she only brought ONE home... i wondered, what happened to the other baby that "was going to die"?
just a thought i had when he was telling that story...
Cats r Flyfishn @ 57:
you made me think of something: when confronted with his failed marriage and adultery, mcPRICK's defenders say "that was 30 years ago"... yet he can play the POW/torture card to great advantage...
huh?
From the looks of the comments here, I'm glad I canceled my cable subscription this week. I missed this travesty and from the sound of it I'm glad I did.
Thanks for all the comments!
WTF! This proved in one night everything I hate about the media and America in general.
Obama answered every question as honestly and thoroughly as he could, while navigating the minefield of bias against his views that entire audience had against him from the start. He still managed to get laughs and applause on many of his answers.
While I'll give McCain credit for the most energetic performance I've seen him give in almost a decade, but all he did was stump and tell stories he's told a hundred times. He evaded more than half of the questions entirely, instead going on about drilling, Russian ambition, "activist judges" legislating from the courts and chasing Bin Laden to the gates of hell. This audience was eating out of his hands the whole time. He might as well just answered every question with "USA!!! USA!!!!".
5 minutes after, according to all the major networks, Obama came off as an insecure, intellectual, college student and once again - Johh McCain IS AMERICA!
PorridgeGun @ 61:
how 'bout all those flag shirts! eh!?! hoo-weeh!
i concur... very important point.
why didnt warren ask about the morality of attacking your opponent on the basis of character? if they support swift boat attacks etc.
Bitter Bud Hussein @ 80:
I was quite glad (and surprised) that it was carried on a local UHF station with commentary during the breaks from local party leaders and the stations news team.
Of course it is an Orange County, CA UHF station.
Embittered & Anti-Republicrat - Max-Hussein-1 @ 59:
Exactly...
KrautHammer said that his stories were so warm and enjoyable while Obama talked about his grandmother.
ok, last time... i gotta get to reading all these comments...
but, did anyone else notice? when the camera cut away to cindy and lindsthy - hey! i don't remember any of that doing on for obama's peeps! - anyway, i watched graham... oh my, what a crush he has on his mcWAR...
i wouldn't worry about this. nobody watched. i didn't. the olympics are on, and it's sat. nite. most people are out socializing which is what i'm about to do. heading to neighborhood watering hole for cold beer, good music, and great scenery.
dadams @ 30:
Thank god. Another 60 year old who thinks like me. Thank you for being out there. I agree with every McFuck thing you said.
Dave
Viet Vet
Obama is wasting his time with these fundies.
Yeah, I know these are Orange County "evangelicals" and not deep south rednecks but the reality is these are the people who elected Bush - twice.
These are white collar, previously unchurched professionals or well off blue collars. Pastor Warren gives them the easy Jesus and Bible-lite they want to believe in: pro-business, pro-capitalism, conservative and Republican. It's why they show up to his Costco church. Their "faith" is a faith in a white-dominated consumer culture.
You can talk all you want about "appealing" to these folks but the only appeal they will respond to will come from someone who looks like them, talks like them and tells them what they want to hear, and that definitely isn't Barack Obama.
....check out David Fitzpatrick's story in the New York Times, I actually made it through the first three sentences but once starting jonesing for Iraq the day after 9/11 and the author of the article juss glossed over it like it was the most normal thing in the world to have such a desire, well I muss say I am getting more and more bummed at these odes to Vietnam War Hero McCain (not my description, juss read the piece)
Liberal AND Proud @ 36:
I was born and bred in red state America and still live there. You are 100% correct! These type of voters are only looking for forceful "yes or no" responses, unfortunately. I think that was a part of John Kerry's difficulties also. I read somewhere recently that only like 25% of Americans have college degrees. That is probably why that kind of strident quick "yes/no" answer without full explanations (majority of McCain's responses tonight) go over so well with these types of voters. Also, remember that most of the media (especially cable television strategists, talking heads, etc.) just loves it when candidates give those 10 second sound bite answers.
Well, too many people are intelectually lazy to think for themselves, so they watch TV and vote accordingly. I am hoping someone news agency wakes up and chases down the McCain story of the cross in the snow and two christians story. I believe that this is a fabrication or at the very least...a distortion of the real story, but chances are the person spoken about is dead or cannot be found.
The event was much like I thought it would be, little substance, long on wind from McCain...he even had the "Religious Moderator" claiming "you are answering questions like you knew what they would be". Yeap, this was religious intolerance at its best, we love you as long as you say key words we agree with.
about the "supreme court justice(s)" question -
did warren ask obama to choose ONE justice?
and mcLAME was asked which oneS, plural?
i'm almost sure he did...
John McCain, absolutist. Neither thought nor nuance can keep his knee from its practiced jerk.
What really struck me is that even though Warren's supposed to be known to avoid "wedge issues" aside from the abortion, stem cell and gay marriage stuff what the hell did any of this have to do with religion? Obama's questions included bible quotes, McCain's didn't. McCain never said the words God or Jesus once. He did get "Christian" in a few times though. Obama actually quoted the book of Matthew, which at least impressed the crowd.
Somehow, despite Barack Obama’s astonishingly rare integrity and high intelligence, he accepted an invitation to an evangelical Christian church forum.
If the Sierra Club had offered to moderate a similar forum, what are the odds that McRelic would have agreed to attend?
I think this was a smart move on Obama's part. Not only was it a dress rehearsal for the debates but it also gave him a chance to finish the job he started with "Unfit for Publication". That was to humanize himself to a crowd that saw him as an elitist, out of touch, secretly Muslim radical. I can guarantee you that alot of the people in that audience hasn't had a chance to know how down to earth the guy is and he might have picked up some votes because of this.
It also fits into the profile of his campaign that in many ways is as radical as the 50 state strategy. That is to infiltrate traditionally deep red demographics and states and make them competitive. He's been courting the Evangelicals before this meeting and he's going after Virginia in a big way. It's pretty smart when you think of it. If Obama picks up even 3% more of the evangelical vote than Kerry did in 04, he wins. McCain can only lose votes from that demo. And the fact that Obama is making traditionally red areas competitive means McCain has to spend money defending what he shouldn't have to defend. Obama is a chess player. Just you watch in November when he makes his final moves. This ain't Kerry folks.
Dave @ 88:
That's 3 of us. They haven't got all of the over 60 crowd.
WRG @ 39:
Well, it was probably a fake cross - as in a fake story.
He told another fake story when he was talking tough about the Russian "invasion" of Georgia - as in he lied; not a mention of the fact that the Georgians bombed and shot the folks in Ossetia to begin the ruckus. Now instead of Bomb, Bomb Iran - we'll be getting the Bomb, Bomb, Russia refrain.
Katy@51 said:
"i think it was obvious mcTALKINGPOINTS was “prepared”, coached right on through that “cone of silence” as to how to respond."
Yeah, I"m pretty sure I saw Ms. Lindsay sitting in the front row next to Cindy the C**t, and he was holding up the cue cards......but where was Joey??
Who do they think they're kidding. McCain had a list of questions in the green room while he was waiting to come out.
katy @ 78:
I thought exactly the same thing. And that story about the Vietnamese guard scratching a cross in the dirt? PLEASE, maybe we should be asking for proof that this occurred
McCain often proclaims he doesn't use his "celebrity" status as a POW to pander to voters.
Actually McCain uses his "celebrity" status as a POW every chance he gets to pander to voters.
John McCain is such a celebrity vaudeville act.
Tonight McCain showed his ability to recite Republican Code Words on cue.
Since the majority of Americans can only make a decision on code words, Obama needs to improve his game accordingly. Although not as dull and long winded as John Kerry, Obama needs to get some quick code words to sum it up for voters. If Obama refuses to do that, he will surely lose. He is giving the American people too much credit for being willing to listen and make thoughtful decisions when it comes to voting for a President.
Obama needs to be able to speak even to hillbillys from Arkansas.
http://biblestyle.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/hillbilly.jpg
Mc Crank is past his bedtime ! He recited the Reagan playbook, be more Reagan then Reagan. Highlights, Stop the Commies, Gays, abortion, lower taxes , play world policeman, pray to Jesus, make love to big business (Mc Crank and the Keating five, Keating was a church goer), tell personal stories...and scream over and over "national security". I think they both made fools of themselves being question by this two bit con man. Mega churches are scams. Con artist who prey on the foolish and turn around and sell themselves as power brokers telling politicans how many votes they can sway because their influence over their "flock". All religions are shakedowns but I guess you need to keep the herd inline somehow!
Was John McCain on his cellphone with his campaign team listening to the questions while they were asked of Obama?
Liberal AND Proud @ 45:
this smacks of the movie-STARSHIP TROOPERS
if you want to be a citizen, you have to join the
military svc and put you life at stake or you
don't get anything except being bullied by
the military govt. sounds a lot like
bushco and the reichewingneocon gop..........
Doggiebobo @ 43:
what more can you give the gop...
they have all had a lobotomy.
McCain, asked the toughest decision in his life, cited his refusal to be released ahead of fellow U.S. prisoners of war in North Vietnam. "It took a lot of prayer," he said.
Isn't that basic military rules/tradition/law? The grandson and son of American Admirals had to pray before deciding not to be released before the service members that were in captivity longer than him?
If Obama said this, the right-wing would shit itself.
mccain likes to mention that france has nuclear energy
why not mention they have universal/nationalized
healthcare.......also
redcat @ 87:
Doesn't really matter if anybody watched or not. It's what the talking heads say about it over the next couple of days that will stick with the voters.
There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice. Thomas Paine
It is revolting to have the first presidential forum only talk about one religion, when there are real problems in this country. It is clear that both candidates have nothing but contempt for anyone who is not a right wing christian- only the christians count.
And of course, according to the reporting of the so-called ‘liberal media’ like CNN and MSNBC, only these ultra right-wing christians have any values, morals or personal faith. These right wing christians believe that a bible written by hundreds of people and edited and translated an equal number of times, over a period of hundreds of years, is literally true word for word. According to the press, only the ultra right wing can be ‘values voters.’ The spiritual faith and values of jews, buddhists, hindus, atheists and pagans were denied and rejected by both the corporate controlled media and also by these two pandering, power-hungry freaks, Obama/McCain, who we are sadly stuck with as presidential candidates.
The ‘who is a real christian’ is all about who will better help these religious nut jobs finish Bush’s tearing apart the Constitution and creating a right-wing theocracy in America. And both candidates pandered equally. The christians were previously brought to the polls by Rove and the GOP in their hatred of gays and equal rights. Fifty years ago these christians claimed the bible says blacks should not have rights or be slaves, the ‘states rights’ bigots. Obviously, the slick, Harvard educated Obama is too busy pandering to these nut jobs to learn any history. Today these same christians do not care about anything real in the world: the environment, global warming, their own jobs exported thanks to globalization, unlimited spying on Americans, unlimited power in the unitary executive. That showed in the lack of content in this disgusting so-called debate. Too bad they do not stone adulterers anymore as these christians would like, then we would not have McCain. But in any case, there is no difference between Obama/McCain. They both love to kiss the ass of the right wing.
The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion. Thomas Paine
Rico @ 110:
your absolutely correct......i'm watching some of it now
along with the women's marathon........maybe it's me but mccain seems to good/quick like it was scripted.
i guess my bias is showing.....one thing mccain doesn't get he can say the problem is spending he's correct we can all agree....nevertheless there is a big bill to pay and we need some a change in taxation to get that deficit paid.
McCain filabustered on a question over Georgia and the skirmish there.
He went on to embrace the Georgian President as if he was Jeb Bush and he wanted to hug him.
He went so far to say that the Georgian President and many of his officials went to school here in America.
Does anyone know if the Georgian President and his guys went to the Freidman school of economics that Naomi Kine wrote of in her book?
Are they equivelnts to the "Chicago Boys" of Chili's Pinochet ????
Somebody?
2 things.
First, is anyone else offended at the blasphemous charlatanism that we witnessed tonight?
I don't claim to be religious, but I understand religion well (Christian), and I am shocked at the vulgar and anti-spiritual forum, and particularly, anti-Christian.
I am not going to try to interpret Christ's said words. But I'll repeat a line he is DIRECTLY credited with, that "It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle." These words Christians believe to be Christ's, not some cleric's or evangelist's.
The image of a cleric (charlatan?) and a sold-out politician laughing together and salivating about wealth and war was disgusting, shocking, and creepy.
Really.
Second. What's up with ALL, and I mean A-L-L the talking heads orgasmically declaring McCain's triumph? They have no shame. And to add insult to injury, they have no shame admitting that they are more interested in STYLE than substance... There was no analysis on substance that I can recall, it was all STYLE, and thus proudly declared!
Last I checked I don't need a journalist telling me what "AN AVERAGE AMERICAN WILL THINK", I rather would have them analyze, fact-check, and report... What followed this "spiritual forum" was not journalistic analysis but naked corporatist punditry... Disgusting.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And you were expecting something else???
Seriously??
I still have problems with the phrase 'legislating from the bench'. All my research seems to indicate it really means nothing. I looked up 'legislate' which means 'writing and inacting laws'. Just what I thought they meant.
Now we have judges who look at laws and consider cases where certain items may not be directly mentioned, and find that the law includes this instance, because this instance did not exist when the original law was written/enacted, so they rule that i.e. 'communication' includes 'email'. This is NOT legislating, this is interpreting an old law to meet new circumstances.
I have yet to hear of a judge who sat there and 'wrote and inacted' laws. I have heard of laws that were interpreted wrong (Schiavo for instance), but republicans, who are the principal users of above phrase, only use it when a ruling goes against their wishes.
So my conclusion then is that 'legislating from the bench' really means that a decision went against republicans.
Did you get a good look at McMoron's neck? Man that dude is old! Old, lame, and evil. Don't vote for him.
An observation from another blog:
Warren with Obama:
Q. OKAY LET’S GO TO EDUCATION. AMERICA RIGHT NOW 23 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. WE’RE FIRST IN INCARCERATIONS.
A. NOT GOOD.
Q. NOT GOOD. 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS RECENT POLE SAID THEY BELIEVE IN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS.
1. I’M NOT ASKING DO YOU THINK ALL TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE.
2. DO YOU THINK BETTER TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BETTER?
3. THEY SHOULD BE MAKING MORE THAN POOR TEACHERS?
So, essentially on this topic, there were technically only two questions, the ones I've labelled 2 and 3. But one COULD make the argument that the comment I labelled as 1 was also a question.
Now to McCain:
Q ALL RIGHT. LET’S TALK ABOUT EDUCATION. AMERICA 18 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATIONS, BUT WE’RE FIRST IN 19 INCARCERATION. EVERYBODY SAYS THEY WANT MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IN SCHOOLS?
A UH-HUH.
Q ABOUT 80 PERCENT OF AMERICA SAYS THEY SUPPORT MERIT PAY FOR THE BEST TEACHERS. NOW, I DON’T WANT TO HEAR YOUR STUMP SPEECH ON EDUCATION?
A YES. YES. AND FIND BAD TEACHERS ANOTHER LINE OF WORK.
Q YOU KNOW –
A CAN I –
Q YOU ARE ANSWERING SO QUICKLY.
A CAN I –
Q YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME OF POKER?
See that? Warren didn't ask him ANY questions. Yet, McCain knew to answer the three questions posed to Obama. Wonder how that happened?
It needs to get out there that McCain cheated.
McCain will 'defeat' evil. I wish him good luck. He will no more defeat evil that he will defeat terrorism, goodness, stupidity or any such nonsense.
This was by far the dumbest, most irresponsible dog and pony show ever. A "civil discourse" in a church, populated by a majority of conservative Republicans, televised by the MSM. CNN just gave McCain the boost he needed. Grandpa McCain's storytelling time, telling the cross story with the added, "Just two Christians worshipping". And people just ate it up. I'm dumbfounded that after 8 years of crappy moronic leadership, the MSM is steering Americans down the same path once more. They did a great job of making Obama look weak. They had the chutzpah to say his nuanced speaking "alienated the audience". The audience was already alienated.
Furthermore, the Democratic party better get their shit together if they really want this. If we lose again, I'm going independent.
Stop listening to the talking heads and turn on C-Span...the callers are not impressed with McSame. Most callers are saying that Obama answered the questions thoughtfully and honestly, while McSame only had a speech (sorry, just had to turn that little gem around).
☻Bangkok Bob ☺ @ 53:
Actually, the GOP frowns on healthcare for the military. They're supposed to die in combat, like all good, god fearing soldiers.
Oh yeah, and if you survive, and you're a bed ridden vet, they'll try to take away your right to vote.
just found these on the googlenews page... had to see what they said... more balanced than i'd expected...
Obama, McCain appear before religious voters
San Francisco Chronicle - 49 minutes ago
(08-16) 04:00 PDT Lake Forest, -- Orange County After months of mudslinging, sniping and presidential campaign ad attacks, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain talked up civility, values and character Saturday, while outlining their stark ...
Barack Obama's purpose-driven gamble Salon
McCain, Obama share their views on evil, marriage, abortion at ... Dallas Morning News
this perspective from texas is no surprise... scary, but not surprising...
mr.land is the arsonist... keep "teaching" your sheep, coward...
...
g'nite all...
As an Obama campaign volunteer I am obviously rooting for Barack. As usual after debates, town halls, and whatever you call this thing that happened tonight, I turn off the tv immediately after the close and before the analysis begins. This is my chance to see what I thought happened before the pundits start yammering and telling me what happened. My conclusions were that tonight's venue clearly favored McCain who had the home town advantage with this particular audience. The roars from the stands always effects the judges in politics as well as sports and may effect my opinion. McCain was a great fit for a crowd that sees things pretty much black and white as that is also how his mind works. Any hesitation or time for thought is read as an indication of indecision and weakness. Tonight Barack was too hesitant and just not at his best. McCain had a clear and quick answer for everything straight from his stump speach to an audience that he knew would love much of it. If he didn't have an answer they would like then he used the old "noun-verb-Hanoi Hilton" (sorry about that Joe Biden) to great effect. Big win for McCain is my call. Barack at least presented as not being a Muslim so a small victory for him. My wife, also an Obama supporter, does not agree with me and I hope she is right, but I don't think so. I look forward to a format that is more debate like as I think when McCain's simplistic views are challenged he will not look good and show the confused stammering an ill temper I often see when he is forcefully challenged. That did not happen tonight. I am glad this didn't happen a week before the election. If I was Obama I would announce my VP tomorrow and get this out of the news cycle as quickly as possible.
ZappaFrank @ 120:
McCain is NOT religious anyway. it's all bullshit for the audience. He knows they eat it up so he jumps through the hoop.
McCain just did the same smoke and joke routine that he has done on Letterman, Leno, Stewart, all the talk shows, for years. He is never forced to talk serious issues and accurate facts. People just see him as a funny guy and he gets a pass. This has annoyed me for ages.
No comments about how Obama threw the GLBT community under the bus?
I am very disappointed in him.
Tonight it became official. Religion has now trumped important issues like war and health care in deciding who will get the WH.
I'm ashamed of Obama and of my country. It's about who is the biggest christian...not who can do the job better.
mc war 10
obama 5
the repubs win again
one thing came out loud and clear
the evangels love war and no new no taxes to pay for it
welcome to america
send nancy and reid in they can take on the repubs
yea right
the repubs 527 machine will eat obama alive
now the repubs have americans afraid of russia again
they are good very good too smart for the spineless demos
banjomon @ 126:
You're right, it's just frustrating to see this bullshit happen. I dunno, just the fact that this took place in a church is unsettling. CNN put their stamp of approval on an event that violates separation of church and state and fed it to the masses. Then they supply an "analysis" that favors one candidate more than the other. It's a slippery slope, methinks.
Nathaniel @ 6:
Exactly!!
You and I both know that the CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA is going to put McCain in the White House come November I could see it in there ans., on CNN. Most of those people on CNN are REPUBLICAN Chickenhawks you could see it in there ans., McCain is there Boy for they love to see someone else so BEED AND DIE for there wars. Maby this is harsh but I think it is true. How many of those REPORTERS have ever put on a U.S. Uniform or any of there Close Relations I would say NONE.
DaisyDeadhead @ 128:
Oh good grief!!!
Give it a rest for a while. No man or woman would get elected President today if he or she pushs to hard to fast.
Elect the most Progressive of the two and elect progressives to congress so that progressive agendas can have an upper hand in this fight.
You know we live in a sick homophobic society and change WILL be slow but change WILL occur.
PorridgeGun @ 118:
I thought McCain was just trying to be funny with his "yes yes bla bla" but maybe not. He did joke about listening through the wall. Wouldnt surprise me if he was prepared
McCain very obviously had the questions beforehand and had prepared answers memorized and so antsy to give them, he didn't even let Warren even finish asking the question. I thought he was robotic and mechanical, reciting from memory with out even pausing to think, so eager to prove that he wasn't too senile to memorize a list of answers. As for Warren, he said he was a friend of both Obama and McCain. I thought believers go to hell for such lies. I would love to see a commentator ask McCain if he cheated, but of course, that will never happen. Bush used a wire in his debates with Kerry and now very clearly and obviously McCain cheated by having the questions and answers prepared for him in advance. Honor, integrity, character, honesty, decency, are virtues completely lacking on the Republican side. My guess is those words are falling down, uncontrollable, hysterical jokes to Republicans. Sad! I once thought far better of McCain. I guess I was very sadly mistaken.
4thwardcouncilman @ 67:
IMO, none of the Republican candidates/presidents going back to Ford (too young to recall much before him) have been on the same intellectual level as their Democratic counterparts.
researcher @ 130:
Funny you should mention this. Indeed, look for more of this. In a weekly editorial column in our newspaper on Friday, a local Repub, referring to the false claim that China was drilling off our coast, specifically referred to them as the "Communist Chinese."
I'm not sure what question McCain was responding to, but he managed to mention that "secret ballots" should be used in determining union membership. I believe this was a direct dig at the "Employee Free Choice Act". Was he possibly channeling Fred Smith?
You can be quick on the response providing you already know the questions, but in this case to be so quick that you don't really answer the questions because you know that the goons have your ass anyhow.Can’t wait for the debate, where they both will be faced with a random question and answer forum, because there is nothing honest or truthful I believe that comes from any of these networks, especially with fat ass Candy and the other CNN, trick standing on the sidelines to pipe in the questions to McCain, who came flying out.
Pay attention folks.These massive Tax Breaks this fool continues to promote are not going to help average citizens in this country one dame bit, when we all know that millions of our well paying jobs have been run out of the country and the big bad greedy, slime ball corporate bastards have wiped out the companies for themselves, when they all lobbied these disgusting Congress members to vote for these massive tax shelters, under the guise that it would help them to maintain their operations and keep employees working.
They have been selling this dame lie for the last eight years, yet we now see our cities and counties, going bankrupt, because NO ONE is paying taxes, not the little people because they don’t make enough to eat, let alone pay taxes and the big bastards have been relieved from them altogether, complements of our US Congress.
Obama is right on the mark to tell the truth and to let the public know that we cannot continue down this rhode of destruction, where NO One is tasked with paying for our city, county and state services for this country to survive.
This is simply insane to keep buying into something so dame clear to anyone that would do the re-search. It’s cut and dry folks. We have to force these massive corporations to pay their fair share or we are all doomed.
And we need a President that has the guts and the courage to stand up and talk about this very unpopular need for this country, and it is so clear to me whom that person is.We are always going to get the answers that are going to be well thought out from Obama, because he knows that he is out there on his own and any kind of misstep that he makes will be recorded in debt, for days to come. Face it folks, most of us do not make more then $30 thousand a year and I am being generious believe that, so how much dame Taxes can you pay with that.
They are blowing smoke up your asses to keep thess greedy ass bastards like Shaun Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and O'Riley swimming in the big bucks, who will use it to keep on screwing you with, and then laugh all the way to the dame bank, providing its still open.
He did very well under the kind of audience he was tasked to preform under and he was very honest and forth wright about everything he believed in and was asked. We got no answers like that from big bad John and we still don’t know what he really stands for other then he is going after Van laden and will keep us engrossed in war after war after war, to make his self and his rich right wing supporter more wealthy.
Obama is just not going to sell himself or the majority of American people to these folks, or anyone else for a dame vote, like McCain will do. It is not in his interest or the interest of MOST American people to sell the rights of women and gay Americans to the higest bidders, even though he personally agrees with them, in that he does not approve of what they do, but knows it is not his personal write to make that call. I understand exactly what he is saying because I am also a person that believes the same way, yet I also believe in allwing people to make these very personal decisions themselves.
It is the right of these people to do with their bodies, what ever they need to do and NO one has the right to take that from them, period. And if these people want to use that as a reason to deny the best hope we have to get the hell out of this massive mess, we are in. Then so the hell be it. I know dame well I want NO ONE, dipping in my dame business, so who the hell am I to do unto them, what I do not want done to me.
He gave the best answer he could give to a nation that is so called split, by offering to do all that he could as President to prevent young women from having to make that choice., because the majority of us would have him do no more or less.
The flip flop answers came from McCain, who is never going to be called on to tell any kind of truth.They will roll this old ass 73 year old stump right into the White House, where he will finish the job that George Bush started.
And he will have to get it without the black and brown support, so they can forget about the 25% black vote the black republicans are now tasked with bringingng home to big daddy.
They have the nerve to tell this lap dog group of fools, that is all he will need to win this election. If the old bitch has 5% (which i doubt), he is doing real good in this day and time, and that he can bank on.
It may be they can blow smoke up the asses of some people with these abortion and gay rights issues, along with this religeous right wing bull shit. Fools that they are, will get on board with these liars and sell this entire country down the toilet, because they fail to see these people for who and what they are. How sad for this country.
It makes average well thinking and informed people that are looking at this shit, simply want to go postal on all of their stupid ass fools.
They continue to allow themselves to be played with. As faith based as black Americans are, they would never sell this country to these cheap tricks, whom all these people have to do is put the dame bibles down for a minute and get the hell on line or even read a book ( try the project for the new american centry), to see that once again if they buy into it, they will have made the 2nd worst mistake in the history of this country and they will not get an opportunity for the 3rd strike. They may be sure of that.
HEJHOG @ 29:
You watched McCain give his basic stump speech to a better crowd than he could have garnished for any of his "Town Hall Meetings" - and you are concerned? The only thing good or surprising about McCain's showing was that he actually appeared human most of the time (except the "my friends" crap - sounds like a friggin' robot!).
We learned little of John McCain's spiritual side or origins in this "Religious" forum. It was just him interjecting his well-rehearsed talking points and tear-jerking POW stories. Borrrring :(
Having Presidential candidates answer questions in a faith based forum is just plain nuts. What happened to the separation of church and state? Why are we letting a bunch of religious zealots pick and choose who leads our country? We tried this already and we all saw what happened. How are we any different than middle-eastern countries when we allow religious beliefs define our laws, who we choose for president, and how we live our lives? This was a huge mistake and although Obama answered sufficiently for these religious nuts (straddling the line of common sense for the majority of Americans and holding back from upsetting the bible thumping audience ever so tightly), McCain was flat out brilliant in his jaded answers (all of which we're lies). You see, it's not what they say, it's what they do. McCain simply can't pass the lipmus test of morality based on his life experience but a few "my friends" and some well rehearsed conservative lines and he's their man. The day a black man named Barack Hussein Obama can get the votes from this neocon group of religious phonies is the day I'll eat my hat. Religious belief should be about personal faith, not a political group of conservative jurors choosing the president of the United States.
Sen. Barack Obama was great.
Mcsame was terrible and just far right. Of course considering the venue, the place was full of christofascist.
I how the heck does one think that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Those people at that so-called church are extremist.
Rumor has it that tickets to this event sold for between $500 and $2000 each, effectively excluding the lower orders. If this little soirée was actually a fund raiser, why was it packaged as a forum?
HA, I just heard a media guy say that NATIONAL ENQUIRER gives MSM "cooties"...as if they hold themselves in some high regard...what a joke they all are...I'll believe in one who stands up and calls last night for what it was...Obama got PUNKED because he came to the forum believing (silly Christian boy) that it would be as advertised...and Warren set things up for McShame (who as been bumbling and stumbling through recent weeks - until the prospect of another WAR got his privates in a twitter) ...I agree that Warren treated the candidates differently despite embracing them both as "friends"...about as meaningful as the "my friends" uttered every 10 words by BIG JOHN!!! It doesn't matter that the audience was from the choir...the media (who always tell us what we heard and what it meant - not about it's accuracy or veracity) will continue to spin this as a HUGE POSITIVE for McShame...and the sheeple will lap it up!!!
I tried to watch (on CSPAN) - so I didn't hear any commentary. I agree with everyone else, Obama seemed thoughtful and spoke to Warren; he seemed to honor the request NOT to give a stump speech.
I knew, as soon as McSame started and then repeated all the old Viet Nam stories how it was going to go: the cross in the dirt story, the torture story ad nauseum.
The audience was very pleasant to Obama but they clearly were in the bag for McCain.
Watch McCain for excessive blinking, which is a form of nervousness or insecurity. Excessive eye blinking can occur when a person isn't telling the truth, or is worried about not being believed.
John Amato said:
"McCain refused to address the classes when it came to wealth. What constitutes being rich and so forth. Obama was very clear on that issue."
Uhh... were we watching the same forum?
I heard John McCain answer $5 million/year as where wealthy begins. Go back and watch the tape. He quickly quipped that they'll (dems) go after him for that.
I thought this comment was going to be the talk of the debate. It was the biggest gaffe between either -- as stunning as his 100 years comment.
Yet nobody here even talking about it? Let alone on the television.
Salmon Dave @ 5:
My wife and I got home at 9:15, so got to see only the second session. After the commercials, we got to watch a well-coached candidate bursting out of his skin to answer while the questions were being asked. There was no doubt in our minds that he was rehearsed for every answer. From the news reports later, it was obvious Obama wasn't extended the same courtesy.
Not my cup of tea as far as a setting, so it was all Olympic watching for me. I am not surprised that the bible thumpers played to Gramps favor. Also no doubt that Obama was once again, more intelligent and nuanced and Gramps was black and white about everything, like the setting.
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