Michael O'Hanlon tries to justify the US Invasion of Iraq while condemning Russia
By John Amato Saturday Aug 16, 2008 12:00pm
We have a twofer. If you're a warmonger from a Think Tank then you are guaranteed a spot on TV. That's the way the media works. And Michael O'Hanlon is one of those war hawking monsters that will not go away. He was on This Week in Politics with Robert Kagan and tried once again to justify the US invasion of Iraq. It's pretty difficult to tell the world that our invasion is somehow different than what Russia did in Georgia. Bush's preemptive doctrine gives any nation the justification it needs to invade. Kagan did get honest and say that many people can see the difference between what we did and what Russia is doing. What is that exactly? Did we poke Russia in the eye? That's the question.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
His rationale is to say Saddam was an evil dictator-man. And the Russian conflict is only a blip on the radar screen as far as invasions go. It's the 21st century now and as McCain says: In The 21st Century Nations Don't Invade Other Nations" that's just not cool. Except when we did it. Trying to bring Georgia into NATO and set up Poland and the Czeck Republic with missiles is not a big deal. Get over it, Putin. And Obama has caught up to McCain in the latest PEW Poll that asks: Who would make better decisions on foreign policy? Of course O'Hanlon does not believe this poll.
Foreman: Do you think people can see the difference? Because certainly some people who are enemies of George Bush who don't like this White House say there's not much of a difference. They're bothered by it. They're bothered by what Russia did but they're equally bothered by what we've done in Iraq.
O'Hanlon: I would say with both Iraq and the case of Kosovo which is something Russia invokes a lot as an analogy here, we dealt with brutal dictators. There was a question about whether we had gone through all the proper diplomatic preparation. I do not think George W. Bush did a great job at preparing the ground work for the Iraq war. But come on, we overthrew a guy who killed a million people.
Foreman: As opposed to essentially a territory dispute of some sort.
O'Hanlon: Exactly a far lower level of violence regardless of who fired what shot first.
Foreman: Good explanation.
And how many innocent Iraqis died because of this, Michael? If we're using " the bad man" as the criteria for invasion, well, there are many, many evil men in the world MO that we could have taken out already, but the country would never allow that to hapen except when people like yourself help spread propaganda in the media. Why did Colin Powell go to the UN and give a false presentation to out allies? Why did Cheney and "his friends" place lying information in the NY Times and other publications so that they could be used as propaganda tools for Bush's surrogates to lie to the American people on the Sunday talk shows? And as Ron Suskind just reported---Why did the CIA try to plant false information to make connections between al-Qaeda that were not there? I'd say Bush did a great job in America with the help of the press to set the ground work in place for the attack of Iraq.
These warmongers never---ever talk about what they call collateral damage. Foreman gives him kudos for coming up with a nonsensical explanation. Bravo! I have a question for MO. Wasn't our invasion of Iraq a territorial dispute also except on a much larger scale? Let's see, Georgia has oil....Iraq has oil...Russia has oil....Oh, well....
Foreman: You brought up Iraq and I think that's an important point here because Vladimir Putin and many pundits have said both the candidates, George Bush, everybody had their legs cut out him, from them a little bit because of the Iraq war, because the United States went into a country without waiting for this gigantic UN consensus to say let's go. So how, Russia itself says "How do you criticize us? We're protecting our national interest too". Is this a real problem Bob?
Kagan: Not really. I wouldn't say that many pundits have said that. I uh, if you look at what's happening in Europe right now which is where this whole action is taking place uh, European leaders are condemning uh Moscow's action uh from the British government to the Swedish government. Uh there's, there's pretty good, I mean there's some difference between about exactly how to move, but there's very strong trans-Atlantic unity condemning this action. No one is waving ah Iraq or anything else. So people can see the difference between what Russia has done uh and what the United States and many European allies did in Iraq.
Foreman: Do you think people can see the difference? Because certainly some people who are enemies of George Bush who don't like this White House say there's not much of a difference. They're bothered by it. They're bothered by what Russia did but they're equally bothered by what we've done in Iraq.
O'Hanlon: I would say with both Iraq and the case of Kosovo which is something Russia invokes a lot as an analogy here, we dealt with brutal dictators. There was a question about whether we had gone through all the proper diplomatic preparation. I do not think George W. Bush did a great job at preparing the ground work for the Iraq war. But come on, we overthrew a guy who killed a million people.
Foreman: As opposed to essentially a territory dispute of some sort.
O'Hanlon: Exactly a far lower level of violence regardless of who fired what shot first.
Foreman: Good explanation.
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Off topic, but I just received this vomit-inducing video link of YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0f6adraE-4
"It's hard work" justifying the unjustifiable (and just plain unjust).
And if you think Russia's going to allow Poland to let us set up missiles within sight of Russian territory - well, if you do, I have some land I gotta sell ya ...
Yes, the average American can have his cake and eat it, too.
Sad, but all too true.
Wait'll Putin ships nukes over to Cuba. That'll be twice in my lifetime.
And the War Pigs keep beating the drums...Amazing.
The ultimate hypocrisy
But the impartial journalist thought he explained himself well.
And complemented him for doing it.
The biggest difference between South Ossetia and Iraq is that the Russian invasion wasn't unprovoked as the American one was. Sanctions should be brought against Georgia for what they did to the Ossetians but instead they'll be rewarded with millions of dollars of US taxpayers money.
1:00 minute mark. a poll showing mccain more able to handle foreign policy. plan a: use any means whatsoever to elect mccain (seemingly legitimate). plan b: take the election to the supreme court - once again. plan c: lose the election, suspend the transition - indefinitely (aka wwIII)
Why don't these talking heads ever mention that one of the reasons that Russia invaded is that Georgia invaded pro-Russia Ossetia? Agree with Russia or not, it was not an unprovoked "expansionist" act.
An Average Joe @ 4, word is that they aren't planning on posting nukes there as in the '62 missle crisis but will only be refueling planes carrying nukes there. Not at all the same thing. And not as much of a threat as the posting of missles in Poland is.
None of the warmongering thugs have an ounce of military experience but they love war. The fascist are lying pigs who instigate war because without war, they have nothing. McSame could only talk about war last night because without fear and smear, he has nothing to sand on by crime and corruption of the Greedy Oil Party and their master, the oil company exectutives
Meanwhile back on the ranch, what have they done to the economy and the constitution in the past forty years of reaganomics? They are they anti-christ.
CNN NEWS
The New FOX
These people need to take their heads out of their rear-ends. Having said this, most Americans are content with allowing others to do the thinking for them; and that is what, so called, "news" in American "is" today.
Ya' mean the propogandist bullshit you and all the neocons , along with the entire GOP and this garbage administration put out , wasn't enough for you , jackass ?
but but but but we , uh no that was different FLMAO. Fricken political sociopaths
☻Bangkok Bob ☺ @ 12:
The same thing occurred to me. And with MSNBC disappearing from Comcast's basic tier throughout the United States this month, I guess the media thugs are now are in high gear.
Every once in a while I wish we could post pictures. I think this would get an over abundance FAIL labeled pictures.
Sometimes I wonder if Americans who listen to this stuff really agree wit what they are saying or just don't care because they think it doesn't affect them.
The propagandists are Nucking Futs.
How do they get Michael O'Hanlon on the air without picking up the laughter of the cameramen? The cameras must be remotely controlled from a sound proof room.
" These warmongers never—ever talk about what they call collateral damage. "
And they never, ever talk about the $2 Trillion - that's Trillion with a T - cost of the Iraq war, all paid for with debt thanks to Bush's tax cuts.
They never talk about debt at all, but they still call themselves fiscal conservatives. And they get away with it.
How can the US be a superpower and the world's greatest debtor nation at the same time?
Animadverto @ 13:
This is what I've been trying to explain to people latley. The Mainstream American media is not there to report the news, they are there to tell you how you should think about certain news events. And of course they take their orders from corporate America. It's all trash in my opinion. Fox News is the obvious one, but CNN, and MSNBC operate the same way, it's just that their "journalist" aren't as cartoony
So the media and its goofy Hanlon experts continue to ignore what actions the Georgian leader took militarily in the border area on people that consider themselves Russian but live in Georgia.
This little tidbit reflects Russia on defense in retalitory action and not pre emptive hits.
It sounds as if Georgia was given a green light by the west to use their military on civilians in the border town areas.
Remember, Reagan invaded a little island for the way they were using their military on its people and we had Americans there to protect as an excuse to invade.
That little Island was Grenada....................................
It's not really surprising that O’Hanlon and one of the Kagan brothers try again to tell everyone that the worms in the pile they play in everyday are still the same worms. If you were stuck in a thinktank with the same dirt all the time wouldn't you report on the same worms every time you spoke??
Since CNN and Faux are now the same broadcast feed, this little tidbit probably won't get covered at all:
From the Huffington Post this morning:"Biden To Georgia At Saakshvili's Request"...
link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/17/biden-to-georgia-at-saaks_n_119...
Bush has probably neared the "million people killed" mark, if you count both US troops and Iraqi civilians. Can we overthrow him now?
Why the hell are 2 PNAC members allowed on the same program and during same segment to spew their ridiculous bullshit ?
the problem is that these war hawks say the most absured crap and then they still get votes and still win elections.
Nice try O'Hanlon... but you still can't justify the war in Iraq... nobody can, you asshat! It's an occupation--plain and simple. Iraq did not declare war on the U.S. It's the other way around... Your good friend, Bu$h said as much in noting it was a pre-emptive war, much like you're describing Russia's actions.
"Regardless of who fired the first shot"? I don't think so!!! That's bullshit. If any country were to start firing on us, we wouldn't go in with "guns a blazin'"?
WE PROVOKED GEORGIA INTO ATTACKING RUSSIANS!!!! The GEORGIANS fired the first shots and got their asses handed to them, and Karl Rove, Condi Rice and that Scheunneman fellow who is the lobbyist making hundreds of thousands of dollars from Georgia and managing McCains campaign promised in secret meetings to back up Saakashvili. He would never have fired on the Russians without that assurance. He's no fool, and he knew that he could not take on Russia and win. He was used and betrayed by these assholes, who would go so far as to start a war with Russia to get an old dottering fool elected president.
They've never minded getting people killed, even Americans, if it meant they could get something out of it.
Lot of ramblings in these posts. It's the sad state of MSM that allows for unchallenged wing nuttery.
These neocons will always make excuses for Bush and their faux conservative actions, no matter how many have to die for them.
No mention at all of how Georgia is the one that invaded Ossetia first and was trying for a land grab.
No mention that it was McCain's staff lobbyist who is also a lobbyist for Georgia that is a direct link to McCAin.
No mention that McCain promised "UN support" to Georgia which gave them the balls to invade a soveriegn nation.
No mention that Russia was stopping Georgia from it's land grab.
Yea...
It's so different from Iraq...
Americans have got to stop being so damn arrogant and greedy!!
"In the 21st Century, nations don't invade other sovereign nations."
As Jon Stewart prophetically said the other day, "...in Europe."
Beautiful. We have here the co-founder of PNAC, Robert Kagan. Isn't ironic that a neocon can work for an organization called the "Carnegie Endowment for International Peace?" Oh, unless it's a perfect example of Orwellian double-speak or Machiavellian deceit theory. A robber baron industrialist leaves money for sell out pawns who gather themselves in think-tanks to figure out ways to start more wars and make money from them (or otherwise benefit).
This other pinhead punk justifies murdering a million plus Iraqi's overthrowing a dictator who killed a million people? I feel sorry for the pathetic morons who buy the bull shit these criminals are marketing and selling here.
The ENTIRE Russia/Georgia conflict is CLEARLY contrived. Plans within plans. All we can hope for is that they will fail. This may be just another plot to destroy millions of lives in order to usher in some nefarious dark hearted, unforeseen objective(s).
If Georgia were to be admitted to NATO, the US would have 'legal' authority to put missiles there, too.
Despite all the empty, Condaleezzie reassurances to the contrary, USer policy is STILL to 'contain' Russia.
Interestingly, de Tocqueville predicted the coming US/Russian international conflict, already in 1830...
I challenge anyone who thinks that Russia shouldn't have separated the Georgians from the South Ossetians to read about the civil war in (Georgian) Abkhazia 1992–1993 and still not wish someone had been able to intervene at that time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)
Actually the main difference between what the Russians did in Georgia y'all and what we did in Iraq, is they were successful in a matter of days, whilst we're still bogged down in Iraq nearly 7 years later.
Of course, with the US building one of the biggest embassies in the world there with South Asian slave labor, it doesn't look like we're going anywhere.
And even if there's a pause in hostilities long enough for us to leave what would we have achieved? There were no WMD's. It's life and treasure spent for nothing.
Sure Saddam is dead, but OBL is still at large, and Muqtada al Sadr could very well be Iraq's next muscleman. Al Maliki's government is cozying up to Iran. And when he tried to attack al Sadr positions a few months ago, there were reports of hundreds of officers refusing to fight.
Do you really think Average Joe cares about Georgia? This is all too complicated for Joe. Afterall he is trying to watch the Olympics and beach volleyball. War is just too much for him to comprehend.
Georgia doesn't have oil. It has a pipe line. Big difference.
How the hell do you get a job in a think-tank or as a pundit?
I swear I can dance circles around them with just two associates and a bachelor degrees.
But then again, maybe that's the problem, I use circuitous logic.
Saddams cruelty or the Iraqi peoples freedom was never a reason for the invasion. The US has a long history of friendly relations with brutal dictators including Saddam. So that argument cant be made. Its when dictators arent doing what they're told the problems start.
Doesn't Nato still have troops in Kosovo?
foolme1ns @ 28:
Absolutely correct.
Check it out:
Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia
(but is cut off by Fox anchor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ
Good stuff John - nice to see some fire in the belly. I can't tell you how frustrating it was watching this segment yesterday... well, I could but my post would be deleted for inappropriate content.
It's a sad day for democracy when we have to go to a foreign news source, "Russia Today" to get the facts about the conflict in Geargia. In the U.S.A. we get propaganda.
Pay attention to the frequently uttered statement: "It is not in our [America's] interest".
No matter what part of the world they talk about, why do they [the neocons] believe that everything in the world has to be in our interest.
For instance take any Iran/Iraq rapprochement. "It is not in our interest", not caring whether it is in theirs or not.
ronhohn @ 43:
What they mean, it's not in the corporate fascists interests.
As for our overthrowing the brutal dictator Saddam, he was our dictator. Even before he had US support he was behaving as a dictator.
All this proves is just because you're America's ally today, we could be gunning for your ass tomorrow.
So like the wee-willy thread above the world is unsafe not because they're not confident in our abilities, but because they see us as a bigger threat than terrorists. We're essentially a rouge nation.
When we should just pinch our cheeks.
we have at least 1,000,000 Iraqi dead to show for our invasion, along with a completely destroyed Iraqi infrastructure.
Did the russians kill 1,000,000 yet?
Do the georgians lack drinking water?
How many Americans were supposed to be saved by us invading Iraq?
Did the russians say that the georgian were threatening to use WMDs?
Or did the georgians just fall to another boosh sucker play?
What did rove promise the georgians when he was vacationing in georgia, rather than testifying before congress?
Were the georgians set up, just like Saddam was setup by rumsfeld?
Since the poles are going to buy a "missile defense" system using american taxpayer dollars, are the winners again the Mil-Indus-plex?
Just asking...
Wow, I felt like I was watching Fox News. A couple of guys poo-pooing the idea that this has any resemblance to Iraq and a host who frames a question by saying, "some people who are enemies of George Bush who don’t like this White House say..." Unbelievable.
Excellent article:
Superpower Swoop
"But come on, we overthrew a guy who killed a million people."
If tyrants killing a million human beings is grounds for being hanged, George WMD Bush would have been brought to justice a long time ago. The truth is, we live in a nation of cowards. Land of the free, home of the brave. Not so much! USA! USA! USA!
Ron @ 42:
Democracy? Where?
Welcome to right wing punditville where journalism is getting two war-hawks to agree on US imperialism while condemning a foe's aggression. Shocker. Hanlon kills me. I'd love to ask him his thoughts on Iraqi's killed, on the selling off of Iraqi assets to no-bid contractors, disbanding Iraqi unions, destruction of Iraqi infrastructure, etc.... Are the Russians doing any of this? It's so frustrating to see the war profiteers (you bet Hanlon and his journalistic cronies are war profiteers) frame the issue around saving Iraq from itself, like the US's only interest was to overthrow a dictator. Anyone can plainly see the US has seriously compromised it's standing when it now tries to play peacemaker. It's so obvious Europe and anyone else wants to use this conflict as a trump card against Russia irregardless of the facts.
And you gotta love his "regardless of who fired first shot" comment. Beautiful. In one comment he acknowledges and disregards all context--US preemptive aggression in Iraq and Georgian aggression, as it appears they did initiate violence. Had to sneak that one in there so he could call himself an honest journalist.
CNN should be ashamed of itself.
Every time I see O'Hanlon he looks exactly like my little brother acting out...
Ron @ 42:
J.C. @ 47:
Throughout the conflict Russia Today has been contesting clips from both CNN and FOX.
Russia Today interviewed a cameraman who swore he shot the footage CNN was using to prove the Russians had bombed Gori. It was, he said, footage of the devastation of Tskhinvali by Georgian bombs and artillery.
And though I view Russia Today's motives with some suspicion I must say that CNN has joined FOX at the bottom of the pile of "news" coverage and Russia Today's criticism rings true.
A little snippet from MtP this morning
DAVID GREGORY: .........."In the days since the simmering conflict between Russia and Georgia erupted into war, Bush administration officials have been adamant in asserting that they warned the government in Tbilisi not to let Moscow provoke it into a fight - and that they were surprised when their advice went unheeded."
Did Georgia provoke this crisis?
SEC'Y RICE: This crisis has been going on for, as I said, more than a decade ............
Another key difference is we're bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Putin knows it. He was outright smirking at the idea of any American response.
Expect more of the same around the world.
ronhohn @ 54:
Saakashvili is a loose cannon.
McCain is a loose cannon.
They BOTH need strong electoral support at home and BOTH are relying on being the victims of Russian "aggression" to shore up their sagging popularity.
It's very simple math.
Of course, thousands of lives have already been lost, and the US and Poland hurriedly signed a beefed-up pact to put US missiles on Polish soil (a pact that had been sitting unsigned on the table for 18 months), and the Russians have responded by announcing their intention to put nuclear missiles on their entire Baltic fleet and to consider using a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Poland as a viable deterrent.
But McCain and Saakashvili both had their electoral moments of looking tough.
Doh... "..Foreman: Good explanation..." Maybe for you, just another shill from CNN.
The "good explanation" was pathetic in my humble opinion. They were "poked in the eye" by the Georgian army, and they responded. WE, on the other hand, invaded a nation halfway around the world who had done NADA to us.
Ok....way to get your air time, you chicken-hawk war-monkeys.
Disgusting propaganda....AGAIN!
More GOP hypocrisy.
I've heard it before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrgFGZYFzE
Let's have some fun now:
The McCain-Nixon-Bush Tango
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvJVy_7LYU
While we're at it,let's not forget the horror and despair Bush the Senior inflicted on Iraq.
From Bill Moyers Journal 8/15/08 [I highly recommend watching the program on PBS]
ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I think the clearest statement of what I value is found in the preamble to the Constitution. There is nothing in the preamble to the Constitution which defines the purpose of the United States of America as remaking the world in our image, which I view as a fool's errand. There is nothing in the preamble of the Constitution that ever imagined that we would embark upon an effort, as President Bush has defined it, to transform the Greater Middle East. This region of the world that incorporates something in order of 1.4 billion people.
I believe that the framers of the Constitution were primarily concerned with focusing on the way we live here, the way we order our affairs. To try to ensure that as individuals, we can have an opportunity to pursue our, perhaps, differing definitions of freedom, but also so that, as a community, we could live together in some kind of harmony. And that future generations would also be able to share in those same opportunities.
What "think"-tank is o'hanlon from
Romper Room?
One word in response:
BULLSHIT.
That is all.
Look!! It's another neo-con pretzel!
*
so what he's saying is, if you think the president is an ass, you're his enemy. opponents of insanity are enemies of america.
no matter how outrageous the republicans are, their standard is still the only standard that counts. no matter how corrupt, how egregious, how violent and despicable.
just another sunday morning in america.
Seems an overwhelming majority of Americans are enemies of Mr. 28%.
It's hilarious that all these uneducated spokesmen for Reslugs are such stupid Dickheads.
Kagan: "countries from Britain to Sweden are condeming Russia"....from Britain to sweden? Is there suppose to be a variance of some sort here...a high/low?
What bullshit english is this?
What do Georgia and Iraq have in common?
a brutal dictator? ... nope
democracy? ... nope
oil? ... yep
Russia Jets Bomb Georgia Oil Pipeline "The $3.8 billion pipeline is the only major conduit for Central Asian resources not under Russian control."
Georgia - Oil & Gas Politics "The United States has supported the principle of multiple export options for Caspian exporters ... The success of these projects would end an almost century-old Russian stranglehold on the oil and gas resources of the Caspian."
The Bush / Cheney Legacy: Legitimizing aggression based on economic interests. Sadly funny how appalled they are when somebody else does it.
Using this tortured logic some power like Russia would be justified in invading Saudi Arabia because they're mean to their people.
Mugsy @ 1:
Interesting. I got sucked in and watched all six minutes. They only interviewed about 5-6 people. We all see exactly what we want to see in any given situation. Not too disturbing.
The part I saw today then turned away was his reasoning why it is okay to attack Iraq. He pulled a million dead people out of Sadam Husseins' dead carcass, so it is okay for us to attack Iraq. I have yet to hear a definitive number of Husseins' dead and never anything approaching a million. Besides, whatever the number, Bush/Cheney are competing for top serial murderers and this is happening NOW -- while we watch. There is no justification for USA attacking Iraq or Russia attacking Georgia. Looks like oil, money, and power to me. If justice prevails Bush/Cheney will be indicted for murder and crimes against humanity. If they are free it gives other maniacal idiots the license to do the same.
Can someone refresh me on anything we did different to Iraq and what Sadaam Hussein did?
while i agree with your frustration, i'm just curious. who do you WANT to see on TV? maybe that's a more potentially useful approach to take than just pointing out how MSM shows consistently bring on discredited neocons to spout nonsense and not be called on it.
just a thought.
again, i agree with your point and your frustration.
How unfortunate it was to have oil and to have had the even greater misfortune of having lived under an authoritarian regime or under a freedom loving democracy before the liberating bomb blast blew you to hell.
Imichael @ 72:
... the Iraqis did not ask us to "liberate" them. Also most Iraqis were neither American citizens or ethnically linked to the US of A.
Interesting, too, that Iraq never charged Saddam with "killing millions of Iraqs." He was found guilty of killing 46 people in a small town where an assassination attempt on his life took place. I wonder how many Georgia killed in their initial invasion of South Ossetia....might it be more than 46. Should its president be hunted down and hanged?
And since when did American stop supporting "self-determination." Isn't that what South Ossetia voted for?
Russia just shot itself in the foot. welcome to 100 years of domestic terror Georgian style.
Control the Message , Control the Message and how , by continuously putting on the same propagandist all the time . Whether from PNAC or the Council on Foreign Relations (Haass , Gergen etc. ) Reminds me of watching Aaron Brown (former CNN lapdog), introducing KAGAN as his " good friend " .
The only difference between these guys is one wants to drop 500 lb bomb and the other wants to drop a 1000 lb bomb and if CNN and the rest of the corporatist where REALLY honest , they'd have SCOTT RITTER on opposite of O'Hanlon , gee what is that...because he was RIGHT .
As far as Afghanistan is concerned , can liberals stop with the " finish the job " BS , bcs the U.S. has already killed at least 6 - 8000 civilians there , and the Taliban were wanted business partners until 2000, when they refused UNOCAL's pipeline offer .
The time line tells it all , After the Taliban left Houston Tx. and UNOCAL's HQ , preparations for war were already being made .
CIA op. Karzai is put into office SIGNS oil pipeline deal with Pakistan and Turkmenistan WEEKS AFTER TAKING OFFICE , for the CASPIAN pipeline that will run From N. Afghanistan to the South . Some say Caspian has around a TRILLION dollars of oil , so now you know when the Job is finished . When all resistance to U.S. occupation is crushed , whether it's the Taliban , freedom fighters or Girls Scouts , it doesn't matter and when the Pipeline is built , U.S. military will remain , FOREVER .
I saw five minutes of those two on CNN today and vowed to never again darken its door. Picking those two as offsetting somehow make FOX seem fair and balanced by comparison, especially when you realize that this is non-prime time which is devoted to Glenn Beck and Lew Dobbs. Goodbye CNN it was swell.
How is this different than liberals who condemn Iraq and celebrate Russia taking two georgian provinces by force? One province wasnt even involved in this. I opposed them both so I dont have any confusion.
Just remember your positions the next time a country invades another under the pretext of helping seperatists...then keeps the land. You can be sure that both provinces will join the Russian Federation.
Dear Michael O'Hanlon -- BULLSHIT
Saddam killed 18,000 civilians, (those figures courtesy of the net) So if you are attempting to justify or compare his performance as the commander in chief, please let's keep apples with apples, ect. If you insist on claiming ONE million dead, that would be the TOTAL bodies in a declared war (both Iraqi and Iranian forces.) Using this interesting neo-con accounting method (my definition) should we not total up all the war dead on both sides of all the declared wars with the USA on one side? (War against Britain -- civil war -- Spanish American -- WWI -- WWII -- Vietnam -- Gulf war -- Gulf war repost -- please feel free to add what as a poor history student I may have missed.) So using YOUR standard Saddam is quite the piker. Then of course I would be remiss -- not to mention the Bush administration has managed quite the civilian kill numbers -- 30,000 plus according to the Pres., __,000,000's if you take the numbers that were offered by the Lancet (a very trusted MEDICAL research journal.) Now to slam Russia, and I would certainly like to have seen that happen, while in the self-same bold stroke build the rep. of the neo-com poops, well that's just what one would expect.
the Iraq war has completely destroyed the US's credibility on foreign diplomacy. Medvedev and Putin can just say "don't preach what you don't do"
but you guys probably already mentionned this.
There is no such thing as "collateral damage." Modern warfare is predicated on the killing of women and children. This is a fact and we need to quit letting people lie about this. Every time a calculation is made about war it must include an explanation that justifies killing women and children.
I think it's time to run away from home. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Yeah, right!
When propagandists get desperate...
Michael is completely right, and you shouldn't get on him about this.
After all - the Russian's are actually *winning* their war on a small country that didn't attack them.
Jonnan
Terrible @ 7:
1993
Serbia = Genocide
Bosnia = Muslim victims
Result: Serbian leaders are hunted down and brought infront of the world crime tribunal
2008
Georgia = Genocide
S.Ossetia = Muslim victims
Result: Georgian leadership is awarded with financial and political support from the United States
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