bastard

How Christ like.

The cone of dishonesty keeps getting larger.

This marks the first time in human history a member of the Religious Right has lacked credibility.

Classic BAIT AND SWITCH tactic. The set up was they would be together for the debate.
Bullshit flipping the coin days in advance. Who wound up with the cake from the entrance fee shakedown?
Cone of silence was a clue the in fact Mc Cain would be able to hear to anyone brought up on Maxwell Smart. He didn't lie about that point.

Challenging the integrity of the secret service?

The same one that allowed the Bush girls to drink in bars with fake IDs when they were underage?

The same one that let Clinton do all his sexual escapades?

This guy is either Joe-dum-dum or some partisan evangelical wienee.

The way it’s worked out—Obama should have passed on this event.

hindsight being 20-20...

and you KNOW what the ramifications of THAT would've been...

as usual, with repugs, damned if ya do damned if ya don't.

A stupid forum run by a right wing McCain supporter evangelist. What did people expect. Pointless.

cg @ 7:

This marks the first time in human history a member of the Religious Right has lacked credibility.

Love the sarcasm.

Just remember, the Cosmic Zombie still loves you! And he hungers for your brains!

McCain and Warren come out of this with black eyes. I've no doubt that Warren conspired with McCain's campaign to tip the scales as much as he could in McSame's favor. Of course, Warren is the 2008 repackaging of the Fundie Right, a kinder/gentler version of the same hateful rhetoric and Republican agenda. The "cone of silence" sounds like a cynical inside joke between good buddies....I guess Warren figured we are all as stupid as the people who buy his purpose driven crap.

The joke turns out to be on Warren and John. The only longterm impressions the voters will retain are: 1) McCain/Warren teamed up to cheat and 2) McCain made up a story about a religious moment that never happened. Good work!

Actually we're allowed to question the secret services integrity. Its only POW's that have immunity from any questioning of integrity.

All this fuss and muss simply because Obama got his clock cleaned at the event. If "um"s and "uh"s were valuable, perhaps he would have been considered the winner.

Why break one commandment when you can break them all?

I think Bush was probably wired during that debate too. McCain is going to do whatever it takes to cheat, lie, and steal.

Did anyone send emails to the websites listed for saddleback.net? I did, and everyone of them bounced! Hmmmm, mailbox getting a little full perhaps? Moral bastards.
Is Rick Warren part of the secret service? I thought we were attacking him? How did he miss THAT?
:)

I agree with comment #1

goldenjoe @ 26:

Warren stated "we flipped a coin before hand..."

apparently McCain wasn't there for the coin toss and he didn't know McCain wasn't there?

seems odd

Days before the event, you know like they do before football games. Bait and switch
Ever notice Repub's always have strange requests before a debate like no cameras behind the podium? Notice how Obama frisked Mc Cain's back during the hand shake?

goldenjoe @ 26:

Warren stated "we flipped a coin before hand..."

apparently McCain wasn't there for the coin toss and he didn't know McCain wasn't there?

seems odd

I suspect that he had a teleconference call with the 2 campaigns. He probably told them, "OK, I'm gonna toss a coin now......well look at this, looks like Obama "wins". The post-conference details on the "Cone of Silence" get worked out with McCain seperately.

It's all about Warren's power to be kingmaker and benefiting personally with a McCain win. I think it's even more important now for Rick, because I'm sure Obama learned a great lesson about evangelical "values" and hopefully, he'll reward Warren and his ilk accordingly after he wins the election.

This whole think stinks.

Why break one commandment when you can break them all?

Yeah I did that. I was jealous of my father's wife, who lives next door. So I killed her and stole an idol from her to worship. On a Sunday.

How are we supposed to believe that McCain didn't get a tip on the questions and Obama's answers on the way to the forum (texting or cell phone calls) when McCain asked if they were "going to get back to the Supreme Court"? How can you get back to something McCain and Warren hadn't yet discussed?

However, Obama and Warren had already discussed the Supreme Court. McCain revealed himself and there's probably more reveals if the transcript is carefully checked.

Not the first time a Christian has lied, not the last. They seem to forget their own rules, only forgiven if they repent and promise not to do it again. Its just too bad that there are so many people that have so little confidence in their selves and others that they need this myth.

All I can say is Rick Warren is a liar. He lied a couple of times. Oh, his congregation will say, they weren't lies, just differences of opinion. BUT if he planned this interview to show how he (and chrisitians in general) could be fair, he had a responsibility to do better, to do it right. He "bent the rules", didn't back-up his promise, he lied. And, christian or otherwise, a man only has his good word to live by, he lost his.

Larry King gave Warren a pass last night and every fucking time he opened his mouth he was plugging Warren's book.

Rich "Blinky" Warren is an evangelical preacher. Isn't that synonymous with "no credibility"?

Chickaboomer@39-

That's the tell.

Reminds me of Bush on 9/11 when he said (and I paraphrase), "I was watching the 1st plane hit the tower and thought, that's one bad pilot."

see what happens when your easily duped? believe in honesty in religion? cant see the writeing on the wall? and dont listen to your mommy?

I hate when I proofread after the fact and find a spelling error...should have been "there" not "their"...oopsie

Here is a question for McShame inspired by a caller on WJ or a radio show this morning...IF the rights of a "baby" begin at conception, do you reject In Vitro Fertilization???? Seems to me that when those embryos are frozen or tossed away that might not be something within their RIGHTS?????!!!!!!

Golly gee, Rick Warren assumes a lot. I suppose he assumes that since secret is in the name of the Secret Service, their job is to keep everything secret from McSenile. Well, they’re doing an excellent job of it since McSenile always seems to be in the dark and never knows shit, unless, of course, he’s fed the questions in advance, but hey, let’s pretend that’s secret too, shall we.

Rick Warren also said that they did a "coin toss" to see who went first.....

how the hell do you do a coin toss if one of the participants isn't even there?

So what other christofacist tests will the MSM throw at the candidates?
Fred Phelps from the Church of Inbred Nation interviews Obama , live from N*ggerNuece Hill , sponsored by FoxNews.

test

Funniest line of that entire interview:

"I was asking heartland questions"

because the heartland is located on the shores of sunny southern california. I know when I look for heartland values I turn to Orange County, CA

"By the time he got on stage, I knew he was there." Warren
-- Hmm.

"If you don't know who you're voting for after that forum, then I don't know what else you need."
-- I need to know if we're sending in the marines every time John McCain is insulted. I need to know when the burden is coming off me and others making $50k or less. I need to know that I don't have to stay at a sh*ty job just because it has health benefits. If I could start my own business and not risk health care, I would.

I believe evil does exist and evil does need to be defeated." Hannity
-- I'd be surprised if he believed it exists and DIDN'T want it defeated.

"A lot of political pundits ask pundit questions. I was asking heartland questions." Warren
-- F*#k you! You don't speak for me. From a Kansan

Just because you're christian doesn't mean you can erase all your sins on the board of life,

You're credibility is on the line with the facts don't match up with your "cone of silence" revelations.

MODERATOR:
Why are there posts predated minutes ahead?

I've been noticing that each post I make there are ALWAYS three or four ahead of mine... some predated by several minutes ahead of the actual time. So I quickly posted a "TEST" post that took a whole 3 seconds to write and submit. The Time Stamp of my post was 10:51 and right behind it was four posts timestamped ahead in time... #64 was the same time as my TEST. So I'll chalk that up to being posted at the same time. Post #65 was time stamped one minute a head of my "TEST". #66 and #67 were time stamped two minutes a head of the "test" post of mine.

In posting, there were no delays in the appearance of the "TEST" post.
Also, when this "TEST" post appeared, these pre time stamped posts appeared with it.

Any clues?

[Server syncing, I'd say without asking the team, who are very busy trying to fix all this stuff now. It drives us crazy too-Sitemonitor]

Got to hand it to McCain all that hard work really paid off...
But look how this guy is off-the-cuff...
He could be a double for Abe Grampa Simpson...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUhlws5TOI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDIAsS9VXiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9maO_GK884g

It occurred to me this is the second instance of the Secret Service being blamed after his own campaign was busted for malfeasance. Remember the librarian being thrown out of his campaign rally a few weeks ago? McCain's spokesmen initially stated they were merely following Secret Service orders, which prompted a rare news release from the agency flatly denying the charge. They even waited a few days for McCain to retract the lie before doing it. The fact the accusation was leveled by his partner in subterfuge makes not a whit of difference.

I don't know about you, but I for one would be careful not to piss off any group of people whose job was to guard my life 24 hours a day.

This strikes me as a dumb storyline to be pressing. What were the ratings for Warren's little event? I'd imagine they were rather low, and that most of the people watching were politically involved, i.e. people who already know who they are going to vote for. Everyone else was watching the Olympics.

If someone did not watch the event and they hear our side complaining about the "cone of silence" or McCain receiving an unfair advantage, who do you think they are more likely to think won the debate? Sports teams do not usually protest the officiating in games that they win. I think Obama's campaign hit the right note when they said they had no comment on the cone of silence issue other than that McCain certainly seemed sensitive about it, but that Obama appreciated the opportunity to appear.

So please, lets' give this conspiracy theory a rest unless there's some actual indication of foul play. What the hell is a "cone of silence" anyway? Why waste the energy when it's just as easy to go after McCain's general unimpressiveness at this event and in every other aspect of his campaign.

I certainly believe that's the case now. In retrospect, he couldn't wait for Warren to finish the question , so he could deliver his snappy 1 sentence retort. Sorry, McCain is never that sharp and decisive in an environment when the questions are unscripted and unknown before....just look at his performance in any one of his friendly townhall meetings. Even though they are generally sympathetic questions, he stutters and screws up his responses with regularity. Didn't happen in this event....no need to wonder why.

The self-righteous only get outraged when they are NOT the ones lying, cheating or buggering......and then there's mccain......he's mad all the time.

to rickw@saddleback.net
date Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:04 AM
subject RE: "cone of silence"

Have you by chance seen this line before?

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

I guess we now know what purposes drive your life.

Progressive Libertarian @ 76:

This strikes me as a dumb storyline to be pressing. What were the ratings for Warren's little event? I'd imagine they were rather low, and that most of the people watching were politically involved, i.e. people who already know who they are going to vote for. Everyone else was watching the Olympics.

If someone did not watch the event and they hear our side complaining about the "cone of silence" or McCain receiving an unfair advantage, who do you think they are more likely to think won the debate? Sports teams do not usually protest the officiating in games that they win. I think Obama's campaign hit the right note when they said they had no comment on the cone of silence issue other than that McCain certainly seemed sensitive about it, but that Obama appreciated the opportunity to appear.

So please, lets' give this conspiracy theory a rest unless there's some actual indication of foul play. What the hell is a "cone of silence" anyway? Why waste the energy when it's just as easy to go after McCain's general unimpressiveness at this event and in every other aspect of his campaign.

Prog. Lib,

Does it not bother you that Presidential Candidates are appealing to "Christian values" impressed upon them?
I mean, what implications does this have upon the Progressive Liberals? You're only viable if you're a "Christian"?
Come on... THAT'S THE CONSPIRACY... NO? America... the "Christian Nation"

And why not point out the inconsistencies... ? Turning a blind eye to them only is a tacit permission that lying, cheating is an American value to live up to because no one stops you.

.

LATE FOR THE BIGGEST SPEECH OF THE CAMPAIGN TO THIS DATE...... good thing it wasn't at 3a.m.

Not defending Rick, but you really didn't get the "Get Smart" reference? That's the _first_ thing I thought of! "Did these people really name their isolation area 'the cone of silence'? Ha ha!"

Oh well, I'm 45. I guess this officially makes me old. Yet, I'm constantly amazed at the level of cultural illiteracy in this country, even _pop_ cultural illiteracy.

Flackman @ 84:

Rick Warren lied? My God! What would Jesus think?

He made the Baby Jesus cry, but what does he care.

P.D. @ 52:

As I watched, I was amazed at the simplicity of Mccain's answers. He seemed as if he was on autopilot. And how the audience responded to his crap? They thought he was great!, I as any other normal American, saw McCain's comments for what they were. A pander act to get the religious sheep to fall in line.

I stumbled on this blog post today. Based on this, in all likelihood, John McCain will be the next president of the United States.
From Mahablog.com:
It took me a while to find it, but I thought you’d enjoy this little nugget from October 5, 2004, dug out of the Mahablog Archives.

Why We’re Screwed

Bush’s years as a good-time Charlie and heavy drinker may actually help him draw a contrast to Kerry. Bush led a more “normal” life as a young man, spending his college and postgraduation years partying, chasing women, and raising hell, while Kerry sought academic excellence, positioning himself to be a leader of his generation. Kerry’s devotion to high-minded pursuits, first through his combat service in Vietnam and then as an opponent of the war, may have impressed some, but it now is often portrayed by adversaries as opportunistic and self-important. Those accusations are rarely made against Bush, who showed little interest in leadership as a younger man. [U.S. News and World Report]
We’ve come a way from George Washington and the cherry tree, huh?

The original U.S. News and World Report article, by Kenneth T. Walsh and Dan Gilgoff , appeared in the October 3, 2004 issue. It serves as a nice time capsule to show us how the “elite” versus “regular guy” narrative played out four years ago. The paragraph quoted above still makes my jaw drop.

Smart is elitist, and elitism is, you know, bad. So we can’t elect smart people, and instead elect stupid people, because they connect with us, and they’re more fun to have a beer with, even when (they say) they’ve stopped drinking. Then we wonder why the government doesn’t work. Stupid? Do tell.

I mean, where else in the world is someone accused of academic excellence and high-minded pursuits?

Occasionally we hear that there’s an “anti-education” culture among African-American males that causes them to under-achieve. I will leave it to others to decide how true or false that is. It just seems to me that this phenomenon is not limited to African-American males. The whole country is infested with it. It’s just plain not cool to be smart.

Case in point: Saturday’s event at the Rev. Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church. Discussing this not-debate, Sally Quinn writes that she wishes she could live in John McCain’s world:

I want to live in a world where Gen. David Petraeus and Meg Whitman, former chief executive of eBay, are the wisest people I know, where offshore drilling will help ease our energy crisis, where a guy stays in a Vietnamese prison camp even when told he could get out, and has great stories to tell. I want to live in a world where I was absolutely certain that life begins at conception, where a man is a maverick and stands up against his Senate colleagues when he disagrees with them, where the only thing to do with evil is defeat it, where a guy will follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell to capture him.

I want to believe that our biggest enemy is radical Islamist terrorists. I want to be part of a world that doesn’t have to raise taxes; where America is a beacon, a shining city on a hill; where our values are simply Judeo-Christian values; and where a man always puts his country first. I want to be one of “my friends.”

John McCain’s world doesn’t appeal to me all that much, but let’s go on …

Obama came first, and he handled himself well in front of an audience that clearly disagrees with him on many issues. He also managed to put to rest the notion that he is a Muslim, which 12 percent of Americans still believe he is. He talked directly to Rick Warren as though they were having a real conversation, whereas McCain played to the audience, rarely looking at Warren. He was low-key, thoughtful and nuanced.

That kind of nuance is hard to understand sometimes — it’s unclear, complicated. Obama’s world can be scarier. It’s multicultural. It’s realistic (yes, there is evil on the streets of this country as well as in other places, and a lot of evil has been perpetrated in the name of good). It’s honest. When does life begin? Only the antiabortionists are clear on that. For the majority of Americans (who are pro-choice), it is “above my pay grade,” in Obama’s words, where there is no hard and fast line to draw on what’s worth dying for, and where people of all faiths have to be respected.

Stupid is easy. Stupid lets you give clear and unambiguous answers to murky and complicated questions. Smart, on the other hand, requires dealing with reality.

Columnist William Kristol, a high priest of the religion of stupid, wrote of Saturday night’s whatever it was:

Obama made no big mistakes. But his tendency to somewhat windy generalities meant he wasn’t particularly compelling. McCain, who went second, was crisp by contrast, and his anecdotes colorful.

Smart is boring. Stupid is much more “compelling,” i.e., entertaining and comforting.

(Later in the same column, Kristol challenges his readers: “Where in particular has the United States in recent years — at home or especially abroad — perpetrated evil in the name of confronting evil?” He really doesn’t know. Truly, this is the Stupidity of the Gods.)

Michael Gerson, who’s just a watered-down David Brooks as far as I’m concerned, wrote,

First, the forum previewed the stylistic battle lines of the contest ahead, and it should give Democrats pause. Obama was fluent, cool and cerebral — the qualities that made Adlai Stevenson interesting but did not make him president. Obama took care to point out that he had once been a professor at the University of Chicago, but that bit of biography was unnecessary. His whole manner smacks of chalkboards and campus ivy. Issues from stem cell research to the nature of evil are weighed, analyzed and explained instead of confronted.

Now, let’s think about that last sentence. To me, weighing, analyzing and explaining issues are inseparable from “confronting” them. You have to understand an issue thoroughly before you can deal with it wisely, and sometimes the wisest course is to leave the dadblamed issue alone. In Rightieworld, however, “confronting” an issue takes these steps:

1. Identify what you want to do (e.g., attack Iraq; help your oil industry buddies increase their profits).
2. Find or manufacture a reason why you should do what you want to do.
3. Overwhelm news media and the American people with blustering rhetoric about why America must do what you want to do, accompanied by juvenile taunting of anyone who disagrees with your doing what you want to do.
4. Do the thing you want to do.
5. Spend the next several months or years denying or making excuses for the mess you made by doing what you wanted to do.
6. Eventually, when the mess turns out to be an undeniable failure — blame liberals.
Notice there is neither weighing nor analyzing in the list above. Weighing and analyzing is for academics and women. Red-blooded Americans take the hairy-chested, Neanderthal approach and just smash the hell out of whatever is bothering them.

Let’s talk about moral issues. I’ve written in the past about how “moral clarity” is not clear at all. “Moral clarity” is based on bullshitting yourself; a refusal to weigh and analyze all facets of an issue.

Essentially, “moral clarity” is about bullshitting yourself. It’s about not dealing honestly and compassionately with all aspects of a moral issue. Instead, the “morally clear” begin with the position they want to take and work backward to justify it, scamming themselves and others when necessary to achieve the desired outcome. This twisted way of achieving “clarity” is founded in the dualistic thinking Glenn Greenwald writes about. This dualism assumes one side of an issue must be “good” and the other must be “bad.” Thus, in much anti-choice literature embryos can talk and women who choose abortions are either ignored or assumed to have evil or selfish motivations. But real-world moral issues often involve multiple “good” sides. It is actually quite rare for people and facts to so neatly sort themselves into “good” and “bad” boxes as the morally clear want to sort them. And by achieving “clarity” based on lies and false assumptions, the “clarifiers” actually create more pain and complication.

But, by gawd, “moral clarity” works great on television. The “morally clear” can look the camera in the eye and give decisive, sound-bite answers. People attempting to deal with reality have to explain things. They must fall back on nuance. Boooooooring.

Finally, the really great thing about stupid is that it allows you to believe whatever you want to believe. Peter Dizikes writes that gurus of the Right like Rush Limbaugh and Jerome Corsi are telling people there is all kinds of cheap and readily available oil here at home if only the snotty, elitist liberals would let the noble and virtuous oil industry drill for it. In fact, Corsi tells people that petroleum is not a fossil fuel but instead is something the earth keeps regenerating, never mind what those snotty elitist scientists with their fancy Ph.D.s say.

See how we’ve solved the energy crisis? All we have to do is drill, drill, drill and we’ll get all the cheap oil and gas we want as soon as we want it. And we’ll never have to worry about an energy crisis again. We don’t have to listen to the boring liberals and their boring explanations about science and renewable energy and technology and stuff.

Stupidity like this makes me wonder how our species survived as long as it has, frankly.

Well if it looks like a duck....
I think it safe to say McCain is defiantly this guy Warren's man. It is also safe to say that things did not go down as they were supposed to or as they were initially said to have. And safe to say that all these irregularities could have provided McCain an undeserved advantage.

Now, look at how this schmuck talks about it. Obama was on TV for all the world to see, answering questions that McCain, traveling in a limo outside of any cone of silence, would soon be asked to answer. The point is that any creep with a TV and a cell phone could have been tipping McCain on this questions and certainly the Secret service would have no knowledge of this activity. But they try to put the problem in a green room and mention 'Secret Service' numerous times. The monitor nonsense is in your face dishonest and nothing but a diversion from the limo ride.

The very way Warren defends himself suggests something is Rotten in Saddleback..

beancounter @ 10:

"Why did Rick Warren lie to his audience and say McCain was in a cone of silence when he knew he clearly wasn’t even at the event?"

OK, let's go over this one more time: Warren lied because he's an evangelical wingnut. Lying is how he earns a living. If he didn't lie, he'd be a homeless stewbum begging on the streets. Lying pays better.

Warren also makes a living peddling an invisble man to his customers.
He's gotten very wealthy selling superstition.

Sarah @ 96:

YOU GUYS ARE SMART. I'D LOVE AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION.

Before the debate, Rick Warren said the order of appearance was determined by a coin toss. Can someone explain to me how a coin toss was possible when McCain wasn't even present?

Jesus was present, so he stood in for McCain.

Rick Warren.... Since when is this guy anything other than another phony hack using religion and guilt tripping people, in order to get rich???... I thought he had to go to prison over having too many wives or some kind of screwy tax scheme anyway... Whatever, I don't intend to base my voting choices over whether or not the likes of a Rick Warren has any opinion on anything anyway... Personally, when the political animals vying for president feel like they have to get the blessings of snakeoil salemen like a Rick Warren or any of the rest of that ilk... in order to run for president??..... Well then, forget it, we're just fucked period... Politicians need to get that rightwing fascist relious monkey off their backs about as badly as this nation needs to get the oil monkey off its' back. That's a fact............JD

Sarah @ 97:

Before the debate, Rick Warren said the order of appearance was determined by a coin toss. Can someone explain to me how a coin toss was possible when McCain wasn't even present?

http://www.prlog.org/10038491-one-sided-coin.jpg

I think it's time TD Jakes had one of these forums and McCain goes first this time. Let's see how it goes. I was also wondering about the coin toss thing. How does that happen when one of the participants isn't there already?

Sean....evil is as evil does.

Have a piece of United Fruit....

Excuse me for butting in here, particularly if someone else already has made this point:

As for Rick Warren's charge that the Secret Service is at fault on McCain's whereabouts, the charge is ridiculous at best and a lie at worst.

Here's what Rick Warren had to say to a reporter when another religious group said it was co-sponsoring the McCain-Obama event:

"Actually, we're (Rick Warren) in total control of the format, the program, the questions," he said. "It's at our church; and so it's not their event, it's our event." *

If Warren and his church was in total control, then no one is to blame for the breach of security except Rick Warren and his church. If a person or entity is in total control, he/she or it should exercise that control. Rick Warren and/or his followers do not stand as Caesar's wife.

* July 26, 2008, WorldNetDaily

I wonder which "bright" adviser to Barack Obama thought this would be a good idea?

I mean, which "bright" DLC/Christian Coalition adviser thought that Obama's attendance at a rigged forum wouldn't end the way it did?

Rick Warren obviously will vote for McCain. He didn't ask the exact same questions of each. He lied about McCain being "insulated" from hearing what questions were asked Obama and what were his responses.

If I were Obama, I'd slap down whichever DLC/Christian Coalition adviser of his thought this would be a good idea. I have a hard time believing that Hillary Clinton would have fallen for such a blatant right-wing propaganda stunt, agreeing to attend a rigged "values debate" forum slanted in the direction of her opponent. She, and her husband, are quite aware of all the smear tactics employed by right-wingers hell-bent on ramming a "permanent Republican majority" down the throats of freedom-loving U.S. citizens.

Hopefully, Barack Obama will learn fast that one cannot compromise with right-wing Fascists, because to do so means that one is compromising the safety, security and constitutional health of our democracy...which is exactly what we've seen happen over the past eight years during the Fascist Reign of Fascist Republicans like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and all the Fascist neo-cons they planted in our federal government...to destroy it.

Another super-evangelist con artist.They are all the same. Religion is BIG BUSINESS. There is BIG MONEY in the Religion Business nowadays. This asshole is NOT in it to "spread the word of God" He's there to cheat the poor suckers who attend his "church" out of their hard-earned cash and line HIS POCKETS with like all good little Republicans do. No more close to God than the devil. Just another REPUBLICAN EVANGELIST CON ARTIST rooting for MCSAME who is HIS kind of people. Mabye someday his past criminal history will come to light.

Mc Dummy will probably get "sick" and unable to attend the real debates. Mc Cain would prefer the formats where partisan jerkwads toss him softballs and the answers beforehand.
Obama will tear him up good in a real debate. Mc Stupid is terrified of a structure that don't favor him.

james k. sayre @ 2:

Why would a right-wing Rick Warren want to help a right-wing John McCain. It is just the same old GOP: lie, cheat and steal.

Why Obama agreed to this is a puzzle. Warren's credibility should definitely come into question here.

What are we saying here? That a man who makes his living selling the idea that magical bronze-age carpenters walked on water and have magical, sin-washing blood would just abandon all that integrity and LIE about the cone of silence?

How could anyone SUGGEST such a thing. He's clearly a man of deep faith. That being the case, he's obviously beyond any and all criticism or questioning. Anyone who says otherwise hates goodness and decency.

This has been a fascinating discussion.

I wish I had time to go through the three transcripts--Warren's, McCain's and Obama's to see if there are more incriminating moments such as the "Supreme Court" gaffe.

I bet there are. Once there is evidence that lying happened -- real, consequential lying rather than conjecture -- the lying liars can be confronted.

Someone, please oh please, do an actual analysis.

thank you.

Obama unfortunately blew this appearance all by himself. If he wasn't ready for questions about abortion, marriage, etc. in a respectful forum -- without fear of an immediate rebuttals -- he's got a long way to prepare for the debates.

Pari @ 120:

This has been a fascinating discussion.

I wish I had time to go through the three transcripts--Warren's, McCain's and Obama's to see if there are more incriminating moments such as the "Supreme Court" gaffe.

I bet there are. Once there is evidence that lying happened -- real, consequential lying rather than conjecture -- the lying liars can be confronted.

Someone, please oh please, do an actual analysis.

We need to get Olbermann on the case quick on this one....

thank you.

Technically, Warren and McCain could be right that McCain "didn't hear" any of the Obama interview. However, someone in McCain's camp could have heard the Obama interview and then relayed the questions to McCain and gave him some answers. Technically, in this case, McCain "didn't hear" the Obama interview.

Regardless of whether or not McCain "heard" anything before hand, the thing that gets me is the following: Warren asked both candidates not to use their standard stump speech response. Obama did not. McCain did, and he did so with fury. I cannot stand it when I hear any candidate constantly repeat their stump speech, and it is especially annoying when McCain did so when asked not to. What is this guy, a tape recorder playing back over and over his stupid lines? Can't he think for himself???

In addition, McCain himself said he was "pandering" to the crowd....and, boy was he ever. It annoyed the hell out of me every time he said "my friends" and every time he said "Reagan."

By the way, I loathe Hannity.

Sarah @ 97:

YOU GUYS ARE SMART. I'D LOVE AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION.

Before the debate, Rick Warren said the order of appearance was determined by a coin toss. Can someone explain to me how a coin toss was possible when McCain wasn't even present?

A surrogate. It was McCain that was absent, not his team.
Let's all not rush to obtuseness. I've read this site for years, and I know posters here are smarter than this oft-raised question would indicate.

CHARLIE @ 125:

Wow John, you should really lighten up! How is Pastor Rick's integrity in question? He asked the best questions of the political season, unless you're in the camp that likes the "Is Rev. Wright a patriot" or the "Can Obama win" type of questions asked by the so-called professionals. And I can't believe you've never heard of the "cone of silence" reference from Get Smart.

'Pastor Rick?' Are you one of his sheep flock? He's a liar, that's how his integrity is in question.

CHARLIE @ 125:

Wow John, you should really lighten up! How is Pastor Rick's integrity in question? He asked the best questions of the political season, unless you're in the camp that likes the "Is Rev. Wright a patriot" or the "Can Obama win" type of questions asked by the so-called professionals. And I can't believe you've never heard of the "cone of silence" reference from Get Smart.

Warren's integrity? He says he had a coin flip beforehand to figure out who goes first, then we find out McCain wasn't even there. He says the candidates didn't get the questions beforehand - except for McCain who got "all" of them.

That, my friends, is how you set up one candidate to look good and the other to look unready.

When did Warren ever have integrity?

miss_kitty Says:

Where’s the fuckin League of Women voters? Why don’t they have the juice this guy has? WTF.

While this wasn't a debate per se, I agree that non-partisan groups like League of Women voters MUST be the ones to handle the debates.

Anyone else want to bet that they won't get the chance?

What's the GOP fallback if McCain starts to decay during the debates?

Liberal AND Proud @ 136:

What's the GOP fallback if McCain starts to decay during the debates?

Cardboard cutout of Ronnie Reagan.

I can hardly wait until they wire up McCain for the debates now.

Karen with a C @ 67:

"If you don't know who you're voting for after that forum, then I don't know what else you need."
-- I need to know if we're sending in the marines every time John McCain is insulted. I need to know when the burden is coming off me and others making $50k or less. I need to know that I don't have to stay at a sh*ty job just because it has health benefits. If I could start my own business and not risk health care, I would.

that part bothered me a lot, too. the economy, healthcare, poverty, the environment - apparently, "Pastor Rick" can do without all that being addressed, just as long as he gets to tell me what to do with my uterus. "common ground" my ass.

guess we'll find out when the real debates come up whether McCain can give a real answer to a question about real issues.

pete @ 47:

Rich "Blinky" Warren is an evangelical preacher. Isn't that synonymous with "no credibility"?

Rapid blink rate is a classic indicator of lying. Unless his contacts were bothering him or they moved the interview to Beijing, he was really flustered and making stuff up.

I remember during one of the final episodes of the show "The West Wing", Alan Alda playing the Republican Presidential nominee refuses to buckle to the pressures of the religious wingnuts and makes a statement to the press that "the easiest con is the religious con". Truer words were never spoken.

This Saddleback forum was a setup and a con from the gitgo.

Rick Warren is just another religious scam artist.

Meet the latest in the long, long line of religious hustlers. Conning the masses goes back to the golden calf. The con gets more sophisticated, but the swine that perpetuate it are the same. Greedy, cynical liars.