The Pakistan Shuffle
By Steve Hynd Tuesday Aug 19, 2008 2:00pmGareth Porter today examines the deeply flawed relationship between Musharraf of Pakistan and the Bush administration - one that sacrificed US national security for the mere appearance of alliance.
The problem faced by the Bush administration when it came into office was that the Pakistani military, over which Musharraf presided, was the real terrorist nexus with the Taliban and al Qaeda. As Bruce Riedel, National Security Council (NSC) senior director for South Asia in the Bill Clinton administration, who stayed on the NSC staff under the Bush administration, observed in an interview with this writer last September, al Qaeda "was a creation of the jihadist culture of the Pakistani army".
If there was a state sponsor of al Qaeda, Riedel said, it was the Pakistani military, acting through its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate.
... For the next few years, Musharraf played a complicated game. The CIA was allowed to operate in Pakistan's border provinces to pursue al Qaeda operatives, but only as long as they had ISI units accompanying them. That restricted their ability to gather intelligence in the northwest frontier. At the same time, ISI was allowing Taliban and al Qaeda leaders to operate freely in the tribal areas and even in Karachi.
The Bush administration also gave Musharraf and the military regime a free ride on the A. Q. Khan network's selling of nuclear technology to Libya and Iran, even though there was plenty of evidence that the generals had been fully aware of and supported Khan's activities.
Journalists Douglas Frantz and Catherine Collins wrote in their book "The Nuclear Jihadist" that one retired general who had worked with Khan told them there was no question that Khan had acted with the full knowledge of the military leadership. "Of course the military knew," the general said. "They helped him."
But the Bush administration chose to help Musharraf cover up that inconvenient fact.
I hope all the Bush-cheerleaders who backed Musharraf simply because Bush called the ex-dictator a bulwark against terrorism are thoroughly ashamed of their support for such an amazingly dangerous lie. The motive for that cover up seems to have been providing an appearance of progress in the War on Terror rather than an actuality. Style over substance. But Musharraf's Pakistan gave nuclear know-how to Iran, North Korea and Libya as well as providing safe haven to myriad of Islamic extremist terrorist groups.
Still, I really don't expect the situation under Zardari, a man who is legendary for his corruption in a land of incredibly corrupt politicians, to improve any. Which mounts a serious challenge to the foreign policy plans of both the presidential candidates. Does either have the courage to call a spade a spade and to call Pakistan a major sponsor of terrorism?
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I'm shocked. Not.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
"I hope all the Bush-cheerleaders who backed Musharraf simply because Bush called the ex-dictator a bulwark against terrorism are thoroughly ashamed of their support for such an amazingly dangerous lie."
When have these people ever been ashamed of anything they've done?
"I hope all the Bush-cheerleaders who backed Musharraf simply because Bush called the ex-dictator a bulwark against terrorism are thoroughly ashamed of their support for such an amazingly dangerous lie."
I am sure they would be if they actually cared one bit about truth and factual evidence. but, over the last 7+ years we have seen no sign that they do.
" The motive for that cover up seems to have been providing an appearance of progress in the War on Terror rather than an actuality. Style over substance."
the motto of this administration has always been " all the sizzle without the steak" or a better one comes from Kieth O. on Countdown..."all hat no cattle"
Maybe if we just ask for their nukes, they'll give them to us.
No???
"Which mounts a serious challenge to the foreign policy plans of both the presidential candidates. Does either have the courage to call a spade a spade and to call Pakistan a major sponsor of terrorism?"
That's not going to happen. Pakistan already has a nuclear arsenal. If we lump them together with those we call state sponsors of terrorism who are only nuclear wannabes, we will have lost the excuse of preventing nukes from falling into the hands of the terrorists as a reason for a preemptive war.
Let's be careful what we wish for here. This really opens things up for Nawaz Sharif, and believe me, he's 10 times worse than Musharraf:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/world/asia/27pakistan.html?pagewanted=...
Not only is he responsible for ushering in both the Taliban and the Pakistani nuke program, but he almost succeeded in establishing Sharia in Pakistan back when he was in power in the early '90s. I'll take a corrupt strongman over a genuine fanatic any day.
And of course, our wonderful "friends and allies" in the War on Terror continue to pull the strings in all of this:
http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com
When have these people ever been ashamed of anything they’ve done?
Good question!
Who cares about Pakistan? Its not like its a part of this planet Earth or anything, right? Bush said he would go to the ends of the Earth to catch OBL and he stopped at...wait for it...the ends of the Earth which just so happened to be at the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Musarref was all cute and such on American TV when he wrote that book; we should've sent him home with a warning. What ye sow, so shall ye reap!
Let us not forget that the head of the ISI, General Mahmoud Ahmad, transferred $100,000 to Mohamad Atta before the 9/11/01 attacks and was meeting with Sen. Bob Graham and Rep. Porter Goss at a breakfast meeting the morning of the attacks.
Or that Sibel Edmonds discovered that nuclear technology was being transferred from the US to Turkey by some of government officials that was then being sent to A.Q. Kahn.
Or that Valerie Plame-Wilson was working covertly on non-proliferation of nuclear technology before she was outed as a CIA agent.
Musharraf got just what the Hell he deserved. Sleeping with Dubya would castrate the worldwide credibility of any politician....just ask Condi.
Obama VFW :
We must also recognize that we cannot succeed in Afghanistan or secure America as long as there is a terrorist safe-haven in northwest Pakistan. A year ago, I said that we must take action against bin Laden and his lieutenants if we have them in our sights and Pakistan cannot or will not act. Senator McCain criticized me and claimed that I was for "bombing our ally." So for all of his talk about following Osama bin Laden to the Gates of Hell, Senator McCain refused to join my call to take out bin Laden across the Afghan border. Instead, he spent years backing a dictator in Pakistan who failed to serve the interests of his own people.
I argued for years that we need to move from a "Musharraf policy" to a "Pakistan policy." We must move beyond an alliance built on mere convenience or a relationship with one man. Now, with President Musharraf's resignation, we have the opportunity to do just that. That's why I've cosponsored a bill to triple non-military aid to the Pakistani people, while ensuring that the military assistance we do provide is used to take the fight to the Taliban and al Qaeda in the tribal regions of Pakistan.
The end. Thats it. Now, lets call Pakistan what it is...the most dangerous nation on Earth, and lets treat it as such. For starters, lets not talk India out of any more retaliations against them.
Another Bushite deposed. Lets see, Tony Blair (England), Howard (Austraila). It seems anyone tied to Bush falls from grace. Except McCain. Go figure?
samdog @ 12:
Stupid. There are people living in Pakistan and India. In fact, Pakistan used to be part of India. More blood?
What should be done is that people should stop playing pattycake with terrorist-supporting nations. Of course, this is what we were told a Kerry Administration would do four years ago. Projection: it's a conservative value.
Is the Pakistan Shuffle anything like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mNDHTfdn1A
McCain leads Obama among likely U.S. voters by 46 percent to 41 percent, wiping out Obama's solid 7-point advantage in July and taking his first lead in the monthly Reuters/Zogby poll.
Proof Negative ads do work!
slippy hussein toad @ 14:
Boo hoo. You called me a name. That does so much good. I am sure all the people in India and Pakistan thank you, you made me jerk my finger right off that button.
Well, it’s another unstable nuclear laden country regime change…
Do you ever feel the deck is continually being stacked against global harmony?...
Is it any wonder that bin Laden has never been captured? Pakistan is utterly corrupt. Bush is utterly stupid. A match made in heaven, methinks.
samdog @ 12:
We need to invade Pakistan!
Quick...get the plane.
Liberal AND Proud @ 20:
If you happen to acquire a plan please give me a lift to a far-off deserted island where I can watch everything go up in flames from a safe distance....
The thing is, people tend to react to things like this under the assumption that because Musharraf was head of the Pakistani military, he was actually in control of it. Like most dictators, most of the time he was trying to keep a balance so that none of the various factions within it would overthrow him. That's (yet another reason) why having doctrinaire people like Bush (or, for that matter, most of the purists who read C&L and other left-leaning blogs) deal with people like that is doomed to failure, because they expect straight dealing when there's a vast amount backhandedness going on.
4Liberty @ 9:
those are conspiracy theories.
you must not doubt what the government tells you is your reality.
they don't lie.
More instability in the Middle East. And a fully nuclear Pakistan. We certainly screwed everything up. With the mess in Iraq (I don't think citizens living behind concrete walls a success), growing violence in Afghanistan, an enboldened Iran. Well thank you Bush. In seven years, you have dragged us through the mud, soiled our reputation and destoyed our Treasury and Military. Bravo!
DC @ 16:
all the candidates are jockeying for is who gets to be Chief Sockpuppet for the real powers that be.
Pakistan is unstable?
The current leader resigned after their democratically elected government just impeached him.
I only WISH we were that unstable.
Che's Lounge @ 26:
Well it smells like a stable around here.
I think I stepped in something.
"The motive for that cover up seems to have been providing an appearance of progress in the War on Terror rather than an actuality."
Face it: the "War on Terror" is a coverup.
Now, 2 points.
(1) Musharraf and Bush came to power within months of each other, one by coup, the other by selection. Both men's questionable rise to power were approved by their Supreme Courts within weeks of each other.
Hmmm ...
(2) I listened to the BBC Radio blow-by-blow description of the US Invasion of Afghanistan as it unfolded. The US was pursuing a long convoy of military vehicles and overtook them as they entered the Kandahar Airport. The BBC reporter said, "Good, now they've got them bottled up. Shelling should begin momentarily." Then, after a pregnant pause, the reporter - shocked - said, "Oh no! I can't believe this! Airplanes are being allowed to take off and none of the US forces are firing a shot!" He counted some 200 planes taking off.
ISI leaving.
Another sad little tale from the Bush years to haggle over with conservatives and Bush apologist/revisionist morons for the next 50.... 'Lies of convenience'... 'Actions designed to create an "appearance" of progress'... you know, as opposed to the real thing... 'Style over substance'.... And that's just the shit we know about... Then there's all that redacted bullshit we will never know about in our lifetimes.. And all the documents they're busy wearing out shredders to destroy and eliminate from the publics ever knowing period...probably this very minute... Yea, that pretty much sums it all up about this idiot president of ours and his sick administrations eight year royal screwup.... You know, without all the gory details...like the details about the dead, maimed, homeless and ruined economies...That sort of thing...
There is a popular phrase, actaully one word that one could use as shorthand for how the Pakistani president, it's ISI intel service and generically how the pakistani military 'handled' our mighty U.S. gub-mint during these last eight glorious years of shit!...
That word? POWNED!!! For those less into slang.... It's defined as punked out and OWNED!!!! That's right... The Bushies were played.. played like a cheap one night stand then kicked to the curb..... These so-called allies played this nations buffoons who thought they were the biggest brains on the planet and the slickest consharks in the room...Thought they were the best thing for western civilization and the concepts of crapatalism since freaking sliced bread hit the shelves... I.D.I.O.T.S!!! And this almighty smartypants Bush administration turned around and played all of us, the citizens of this country just the same way.... And this, 'my friends'... is the only thing this generation of republicans know how to do.... But govern, lead, be responsible stewards of this nation?? No, not even close...
So, all you fence sitters? (and really, I'm one insofar as I ain't totally onboard with Obama, but am totally onboard with shitcanning republicans) Take this little tidbit of knowledge into the voting booth in November.. And as the right, and the evangelicals, and the Kristol, Hannity fascist wannabe mouthpieces harp on and on over the next few months about how great they are and how wrong and bad the other side is... Remember... Just who it was who had the last eight years to show us just what they were made of... Remember just who it was that put this little train called America into this fucking ditch! Remember, and vote accordingly. It's only the future of our children and the fate of the nation on the line here........JD
Quick reality Check:
The article states: al Qaeda “was a creation of the jihadist culture of the Pakistani army”.
The real self-confessed creator of Al Queda was none other than Obama foreign policy advisor and co-founder of the Trilateral Commission Zbigniew Brzezinski. Yes, that Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor and who will be the real power behind any Obama throne. He created and funded Al Queda to fight Russia in Afghanistan.
Zbigniew Brzezinski is also devoted to the implementation of a new world order focussed around a global government with power centers in three distinct regions: The Americas, Asia and Europe. (Hence the Tri in Trilateral.) His presence in the background of the Obama campaign would also explain to exasperated Democrat supporters why Obama is now further right than even McCain, and why he keeps backtracking, dare I say flip-flopping on important issues like the war in Iraq and his voting for the unconstitutional and illegal FISA provisions.
As Obama parrots the line "Change you can believe in" (even if it is all smoke and mirrors) you can only marvel at how much the MSM promotes him as the next messiah, and yet he is still 5 points behind McCain, who in my mind is a walking corpse. (Won't last a full term if he wins, watch out for who he picks as a VP.) I hope this is an indication that the average voter -- as opposed to Democrat shill -- realize both parties are corrupt and working against the interests of the average Americans. This also is reflected in the single digit approval rating of Congress despite the horrific Bush presidency.
A pox on both their houses.
ysbaddaden @ 27:
(sigh)
Ys, does it ever occur to you that maybe YOU are a bit unstable?
David @ 30:
Zbigniew Brzezinski:
How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen
DC @ 16:
CNN: Clinton strategy working for McCain
slippy hussein toad @ 14:
What you dont understand is those *people* you say live in Pakistan, the exist in the 1200s when Iranians conquered Afghanistan and separated it from indian influence... then in 1500s captured delhi and still think they should rightfully rule the entire subcontinent.. They launched three wars against india thinking 1 pakistani soldier is equivalent to 10 indian soldiers.. after that didnt work, they started their proxy war by supplying terrorists with arms and money.. I am not one for wars.. but if ever India's territorial integrity is threatened, I hope Pakistan gets bombed to the stone age.. At one time in history India extended from Afghanistan (Rajah Kambhoj in 325 BC was from Afghanistan and aligned with Alexander to defeat Paurus) to Tibet (the Nagas) and indo-malay in the south east.. today they are concentrated at the epicenter of their civilization.
$10 mil (bil?) a month.
Please dont blame Bush for US policy failures towards South Asia.. Kissinger aligned US with Pakistan and forced Indira to align with USSR. Until then, India was vehemently like the swiss (google NAM: Non Aligned Movement).. US turned a blind eye towards pakistan's support of terrorists and also the fact that american arms ended up being used against India..
Bush tried to set the record straight by aligning with India.. he deserves credit for that..
Dave@30;
Without taking issue with your perspective.. Hell, at this point, I tend to believe all this tri-lateral commission business and the fact that many many dems are as guilty and braindead stupid as repubs. This I know, I just want to point out, what your post truly indicates... It's the fact that 'we the people' are again faced with another shit sandwich of an election with that seemingly inescapeable choice of the 'lessor of two evils' yet again.... Seems like its been like this my entirely life and it is getting tiresome. Be that as it may, I have to go with the dems this possibly last time. I'm ready for a viable third party but there ain't one on the horizon that doesn't have its own stupid issues to deal with. So until someone or some party can show its got a bit more strength and stamina than a newborn, that's its got a little bit more on the ball intellectually than drowning babies in bathtubs or pretending to be populist just because some figurehead might have given the Detroit auto industry hell about 45 years ago, it's going to be dem or repub again this november... Do you really want to bank on these same assholes who have ruined our country over the last eight years another shot to finish us all off.... Just because Jimmy Carters security advisor is an asshole globalist too???? If so, Why?? JD
Che's Lounge @ 31:
You ought to ask me when I don't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjVKUap1HgU&feature=related
Is the coast clear?--- @ 21:
You missed the irony of my statement. ; 0 )
the impression here of bush and Musharraf of Pakistan is
that bush has been supporting with aid and u s military
backing the al qaeda, which makes bush/cheney
enemy combatants of the United States. both
of them should be immediately arrested and tried
for their crimes against the United States and
humanity.
Jack Damage @ 37:
Number 1, at the end of my post I said a pox on both houses, which in this case are the Republican and Democrat parties. I never said I would vote Republican, and quite directly, I won't vote at all, period. What I will do, though, is continually discuss the reality of the situation we are in, which is that the entire political process is literally run by a group of corporate globalists who don't care who gets into power because regardless, they are going to get their way anyway.
Get their way, that is, unless enough people wise up enough to call them on their bullshit which is what most of the world is starting to do. And these guys are into robbing the treasury, leaving the taxpayer with the bills and using the military might of the US to advance their empire. This shouldn't be tolerated in America, but it clearly is. I suppose it is because people don't want to get hurt, but the end result of all this could be a nuclear war which could literally kill hundreds of millions. This is no game.
Case and point: While most of the American media pretends that the situation in Georgia was started by Russia, it was in fact Georgia, with Israeli and American soldiers, who invaded South Odessa. Today Rice signs a deal with Poland to put the "Missile Defence Shield", another great white elephant, in Poland. Russia has stated that they reserve the right to pre-emptively use nuclear arms to take out that threat. These guys are playing chicken with the Russian Bear at a time when they are in no position to fight.
The US is trying to demonize and isolate Russia now at a time when they have killed hundreds of thousands in the middle east and have the largest battle group ever assembled off the coast of Iran. The world media, BTW, has picked up on how skewed and false much of the reporting in America has been about the Odessa situation, which has further eroded American credibility. It is clear who the real Hitler is, the real threat to world peace really is.
Fact of the matter is that the powers that be need the distraction of war to keep rolling out the police state and keep people's minds off the financial trainwreak that is coming. America is resourceful and will likely, eventually, work their way out of what is coming, but we are in for a world of hurt in the interim. And the globalists, if they can position themselves as our saviors and think the American public will buy it, they will drop us into another crisis and use that crisis to advance their interests even further. And believe me, it won't matter who is in the White House, as Congress has demonstrated time and time again since 2006 the political class will give the globalists every thing they want, even if it means going against the expressed wishes of the very people who put them in office.
Until people in this beautiful country recognize there is shit in your sandwich election after election, that basically Americans are continually being fed false choices time and time again, the system will never change. If enough people get up and start asking tough questions, are prepared to look at some of these issues in new ways and stop jumping on a bandwagon just because there are only two, the political class will be forced to respond accordingly. Then there is hope that the system can change and evolve. But the way things are going, with people parroting the big party talking lines and prepared to bite into that bullshit and mayo sandwich one more time -- which really will give the globalists one more shot at taking us all down -- I really don't see things changing.
Until the whole country collapses, which may even happen this fall, what with all the economic problems bubbling away.
If politicians knew the people were onto them, onto their corruption, onto their repeated lies, they would smarten up in a heartbeat, and given that the MSM is as much a part of the fraud as the political system is, people aren't going to have the truth spoon-fed to them, they have to dig for it and think a little. By highlighting the reality of the personalities we are dealing with, at the very least it should give people a reason to think a little deeper on some of these topics. Pursuing the truth, no matter how uncomfortable and challenging, would be a value our founding fathers -- who sacraficed so much to create this country -- would find in short supply today.
And you can vote for Obama if you want to, your right of course, but don't kid yourself that you are voting for change. That's called denial.
David @ 41
Fantastic post.
Everything you wrote is the truth.
American politics is just one giant streetside shell-game. A fraud.
HOW IN THE HELL CAN THIS NOT BE INVESTIGATED.
"But the Bush administration apparently conveyed to the Pakistani military after that episode that it now expected the Musharraf regime to deliver high-ranking al Qaeda officials -- and to do so at a particularly advantageous moment for the administration. The New Republic magazine reported Jul. 15, 2004 that a White House aide had told the visiting head of ISI, Ehsan ul-Haq, that "it would be best if the arrest or killing of any HVT [high value target] were announced on 26, 27 or 28 July." Those were the last three days of the Democratic National Convention.
The military source added, "If we don't find these guys by the election, they are going to stick the whole nuclear mess up our a**hole."
Can it get any more politically depraved than that. This has Mr. Rove pudgy little prints all over it.
Forgot the icing on the cake.
Just hours before Democratic candidate John Kerry's acceptance speech, Pakistan announced the capture of an alleged al Qaeda leader.
Make me want to shake those people I see with Bush/Cheney '04 bumper stickers on their cars and yell: "You god dammned idiot WAKE UP!"
David@41;
Ya know Dave.... I can't disagree with anything you have just posted. I think you are correct in your assessment... Indeed, a pox on both houses.. I just wish.... I just wish things hadn't got so bad, but they have... I wish I had a solid idea to offer to fix it but I don't. The path out of this cesspool is going to be painful. I don't know about Obama, I have many doubts... In very fundamental ways I too, know it doesn't matter who gets the wh... But I do know the path to total ruin is much shorter with repubs driving. And I know there is no viable third party option to turn to yet. So here I am, left with the, actually, three choices... Vote dem, vote repub, or as you say, don't vote at all... I don't think I can go the 'not vote at all' route and not end up feeling like I'm just as bad as the bastards trying to work the globalist agenda and tear this nation apart.... I'm probably going to go with the dems, but I'm holding my nose even as I write these words... No, I can't disagree with anything you've said, and I am not kidding myself that anythings really changing regardless of who wins it this time... except maybe to the extent I think in Obama there might be some hope.. Hope to at least slow this shit down a little until someone not beholden to globalists or WTO agendas might rise up from the background and create that viable third option... Personally I think Kucinich might be that kind of pol. But maybe not, I'm sure someone still thinks Ted Stevens was a great little senator too. But it doesn't much matter what I think about Dennis Kucinich.. That ain't gonna happen...not this time... Anyway, thanks for the discourse and views...........regards; JD
Jack Damage @ 46:
Dear JD,
Alternative steps to doing nothing:
A) Educate yourself. Study both sides on an issue to ensure that what you believe can stand a certain amount of scrutiny. As soon as you know the truth about something, it changes it for everyone, even those who disagree with you. When enough people fully grasp the truth -- think the 100th monkey syndrome -- change can happen literally overnight. Think of the Soviet Union and its fall.
B) Educate whoever you can, learn from whoever you can, don't waste time with the rest.
C) Prepare to be more self responsible in the future. You will likely have to do that soon anyway, so you might as well start now. The cozy support structure that surrounds you may not be there much longer.
D) Learn who your friends are and what is really important about life.
E) Find a candidate who represents your values and support them. Are you voting your values or are you voting to be a winner? (That little bait and switch is why this country is in such a mess and why there are only two parties.)
F) Hold your Congressman or woman accountable, demand answers and demand the truth. There are way more of us than them, they need us to keep the gravy train going, the problem is we let them own us all the time. If even a small percentage of voters got on their backs, that can be a major drain on their resources.
G) I know many people here won't like this suggestion, but if you are still so inclined to vote for one of the "major party" candidates -- gotta love that terminology -- then vote the Dems into Congress -- they are going to steamroll into power there anyway -- and then vote McCain to balance that. He's going to be a lame and likely dying duck when he gets into power anyway, and I think some degree of gridlock is better here than Obama having a completely free hand. Although I fully understand that again, with the globalists owning both parties, even this arrangement will do nothing to decrease the likelyhood of war or the continuing rollout of the police state.
H) Realize it is the truth that will set us free, not our party affiliation.
Might want to learn to pray, too.
David@47;
Interesting suggestions... I try to practice some of these already, A. B. C., though my personal effectiveness at these may be open to debate. I hope to figure out C. before I die, but mostly consider this one part of lifes ongoing learning experience..
As for E. That's why I like Dennis Kucinich, at least at this point. Thing about that is, it seems like one has to always keep an open mind.. Some would describe this as hedging ones bets.. Because ya just never know when your favorite pol of the moment will let you down. Obama for instance, really kinda lost me on FISA. That was a big letdown to me, though I'm sure that there are many other reasons to be skeptical about him... Many of them have been debated on this forum.. Nevertheless, that's the one that made me go 'huh, wait a minute'??!! The only thing you can seemingly always count on is this potential to be let down by the pol dejour of the moment always exists. The only ones in my life who never let me down are the ones that were killed before we could find out either way what they were going to be all about long term.. As for F.?? Yea, I do that, and I get the form letter/email responses back filled with platitudes and glad tidings and be sure you visit my web site and donate pablum.. Or Office flunkies droning in my ear how they will pass along my thoughts, requests for action, whatever it happens to be at the moment and thanks so much for calling blah blah blah.. And then I get ignored.. Same as I suspect it is for everyone else... The only way I know to legally hold them accountable is at the voting booth... Others go the Oswald/Sirhan Sirhan route, but as mad as I get, I can't subscribe to that sort of insane response to bad politicians... The only thing I've seen that accomplish is more chaos and a hole in the ground for the perp or a small cell for the rest of the perps natural life... Kinda self defeating actually... G.... Yea.. that's a tough one.. I can't actually buy into that one...although I get the logic and understand why you might subscribe to it.. I think a lot of people have already been playing that game for a few election cycles... Just don't seem to be working out like it ought to on paper... Gridlock as preference?? I've seen gridlock.. I don't think that works either H... I'm totally behind you on H. That is always smart... . On learning to pray.... Nothing against you or your religious preferences, but I don't know about that one either... Nothing wrong with having a personal relationship with whomever you regard as a creator... And I have been known to hit my knees and ask God's help too... But I can't help thinking, the big Kahuna in the clouds is sitting this one out... I think whomever he or she or it is, probably has more to think about than whether or not the moronic little species on one little rock in the middle of a vast universe is going to get its' shit together or fuck up and kill itself off. I just ain't buying that 'we' the homosapien species is the center of it all.... So the praying idea?? Probably the least helpful suggestion though I'll probably do that as well on the ride to this election... Again, interesting suggestions and an interesting conversation, thanks for the ideas and regards; JD
David @ 41:
Yah. Because that's, like, gonna halp alot. Let's discuss shit until the election's over, and then you can pack up your fucking trollskin suitcase and disappear again.
You gave yourself away, dude. It's not the "Democrat" party. I see your concern and raise you a trough of voter-apathy trollfeed.
.
Oooo... h/t ME
Now, lets discuss who's the new Pakistani Lobbyist...
None other than one of the most wanted by the House Judiciary Committee...
h/t... ME
This should get real interesting.
Q U E S T I O N:
Who set her up for the job?
Inquiring minds need to know...
After all, making the "HOMELAND" less safe while giving aide and comfort to the enemy is called what...?
Here's a hint... it begins with a capital "T"-----and ends with an "N".
.
David @ 41:
I`ve really enjoyed these last few comments full of fantastic insight, except I believe that thinking things will change for the better or that there is hope is actually living in denial. I`m sure it`s too late. The fact is there are just too many fucking human beings. We are like rats on a sinking ship. The Vietnam fiasco was a great turning point. To see the American People demonstrate day after day to show their disgust in what their government was doing. There was a system in place that allowed for the removal of a corrupt President. I was so proud of the American People. Now where are the demonstrations? Where is the will and strength to correct the wrong? The American People have been sold out, but they let it happen. Remember the Chimps approval rating as he stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier and proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" I believe it was 95%. You fucking well loved him because wanted blood. Now stew in your own shit.
9/11 conspiracy anyone?
the most dangerous place on earth - the whole world is dangerous now - equally - the world leaders see to that - and the defenceless suffer. pakistan is a poor country that is getting poorer by the day
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