I really don’t understand why being a POW gives anyone “bragging rights”. If you are a POW, that means that the “enemy” captured you and you failed at your mission. If he was shot down, then he did not do his job. That is the worst thing a soldier can do is to end up in “enemy” hands. It is not surprising that the dumb ass McDipstick (495th in a class of 500) did get shot down! Anyone that stupid should have been given a desk job. Certainly being captured does not make you a hero of any kind.

We know absolutely nothing about what he did after he failed as a pilot. We seem to have only McCain’s constantly changing moronic anecdotes to go by. The creep is a compulsive liar and criminal. Remember that the “war” that he was fighting in was another bogus war against “world communism”. Now McBush is a big supporter of shipping American jobs to the communist Chinese. What a total piece of shit that asshole is.

Everyone respects John McCain’s Vietnam service...

No they don't. Bombing cities is about killing civilians. Takes a big man to fly over a third world city and drop iron bombs

on families. Read this, he thinks we didn't kill enough civilians, 2 million wasn't enough.

Also, he lost several planes, collaborated with the North Vietnamese and was codenamed Songbird.

The RIGHT stuff.

Leadership @ 4:

Everyone respects John McCain’s Vietnam service...

No they don't. Bombing cities is about killing civilians. Takes a big man to fly over a third world city and drop iron bombs

on families. Read this, he thinks we didn't kill enough civilians, 2 million wasn't enough.

Most righteous, Leadership. I also have no respect for McCain's service in Vietnam, an illegal and immoral war. I respect those who resisted and opposed the killing of innocent civilians by dropping bombs on them.

I hope Dan Abrams does not drift too far away.

wtf barrack is doing teasing people with vp forever. people/press do not like it.

McCain uses his past POW status just like Rudy Guiliani used 9/11. He uses it as a "catch 22" response for questions that he does not want to answer because he knows no one will dare go against it. Watson's script is pure bull. Its a vein attempt to cover up for McCain's gaffes and we would all be wise to look beyond it and focus on the issue at hand.

what's sad is that this repetitive positive and/or negative
framing works. i listened to this guy last night on verdict
he was human version of a parrot.
hey politico asked mccain a simple question now they are going to turn it into an attack on candy mccain. if john would have answered the question it would be less of a deal....i guess he thought he was still in the" cone of silence".....there is no high road.......politics will have to be as usual unti obama gets in office. i can except that. mccain started this and they know that
they are looking for an excuse to get nasty/dirty.
if the mccain didn't play dirty mccain would look foolish
on his own actions. it's time to YouTube the hell out of mccain.

According to the wing nuts John Kerry faked a combat wound so as to use it in a future political life, maybe McInsane became a POW for the same reason.

Folks YOU (yes ... YOU!) need to push this theme at every opportunity ... on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, EVERYWHERE!

McCain is NOT a hero! Again... McCain is NOT a hero! He might not even be patriotic!

Hell - Clark is not even a hero... Schwarzkopf is not a hero... AND THEY ARE CREDITED FOR VICTORIES!

Heroes are people who do heroic deeds.. selfless acts... They typically die in poverty. The Founding Fathers could have been hanged... and nearly all died in poverty!

If you do something FOR YOURSELF .. you cannot be a hero!

McCain is NOT a hero!

Joe Dickwad can do nothing but repeat the POW story and the Rezko stuff, BOTH which are totally irrelevant to this.

I think Obama should also run a Keating 5 ad, as well as an ad that insinuates that he does not support adultery or bigamy.

Joe Watkins is such a GOP tool and stooge.

Hey Joe

If a Vietnam Vet and prisoner of war robs a bank because his country didn't take care of him like it should have , is he allowed to go free because he was a POW ?

What the hell kind of insane rationale is this Chimpy nut hugging sycophant selling ?

Question: Senator McCain, how will you fix the economy ? Can you please give any specific answers ?

Answer:

P..
The crowd waits with bated breath

O..
Wide eyed crowd going ZOMG ZOMG..

W.. !!!!!
Crowd goes wild and has multiple orgasms

Why isn't Randy Cunningham mentioned, when the talk goes to the "hero" nonsense?

First of all, McSame wasn't a survivor of the Bataan Death March, he lustily bombed women and children from an altitude that squelches the lakes of noncombatant blood and noncombatant screams.

Big hero, the source of the Forrestal's fire nightmare.

That's why the son-of-an-admiral-who's-the-son-of-an-admiral was the first airlifted off the stricken carrier even though he wasn't so much as scratched by the debacle his idiocy caused.

"Wet-Start McCain" didn't come out of nowhere.

Second, Randy "Duke" Cunningham was a Veet Nayum "hero" too.

Remember his little bit of legal trouble not long ago?

Cunningham's recent criminal corruption conviction should have been used to knock down McCain's peacock routine over being captured and pumped for information by the "enemy"...but the Pelosi/Emanuel Demz would never unlimp a wrist in order to make a fist.

When your pale, millionaire's hands are stuffed into the dollar/shekel bag, why make a fist anyway? One can't properly pat the top of little Bushie's head with a fist, after all. Right, "Off The Table" Nancy?

I forget the Texas powerhouse politician who said: "you hafta make a fist to fight like a man, and fists are poor tools for scoopin' them greenbacks outta the public till"?

Too bad Dan Abrams is losing his show. It was pretty entertaining, balanced and informative. Oh well, at least Rachel Maddow is taking over. I have no doubt her's will be even better.

Boot the head! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhx6PAqsM_w

SHAME ON ALL OF THEM !

It's really begining to dawn on me... All these political operatives, whether they be on the left or especially the right, have nothing valid to say. Their prime objective is to spawn fear/hatred, perpetuate lies, and get paid for their declarations. If you go back to anything that william kristol has said prior to the start of the Iraq war, then you will see that if it was in the context of a sale or an operation, the results would have been either fail or death. So please, if you are going to be putting on a show, as a moderator, do your job, because I've stopped watching you, but I LONG FOR FRIDAYS, as Bill Moyers' show is on - quality ! Andrew J Bacevich was on last week and I was in tears listening to this man, who sensibly put things pretty bleakly, but kept a realistic perpective on things. Also, he was very credible as having served in Vietnam and having earned a PhD, but I guess kristol's phd from harvard really went to waste.

These exchanges sicken me, because bush knew ken lay, who would have gone behind bars, but they never mention that. How about asking mccain about his involvement in one of the largest genocides in vietnam, laos and cambodia ? You were actually dropping bombs on the villages and you surely would have continued...

It's sad when our country is so saturated by the evil fumes of war...

Love,
k

I like the comparison idea.

How much money did Rezko give Obama? How much money did Keating give McCain?
How many times has Obama cheated on his wife? How about McCain?
How many homes does Obama own? How about McCain?
How many high-powered lobbyists in Obama's campaign? McCain's?

This is fun!

During the time tropical storm Fay was beating the shit out of where I live, there was an elderly man staying on his boat through the storm. During the worst of the storm he saw another boat in the marina had broken loose and was washing all about. He knew the man who owned the loose boat but he couldn't get in touch with him. So this elderly man jumped into the thrashing water swam to the loose boat, boarded it and discovered the owner passed out due to a diabetic coma. The elderly man put a life jacket on the passed out man, eased him into the water and swam him to shore where he called 9-11. The diabetic guy recovered and was fine. That elderly man was a hero. That's the definition of the word.

So for 8 years, we've had George Bush in the White House, and he was above reproach, and could not be criticized on any point or for every reason because 9/11 9/11 War War 9/11 9/11 War War War America 9/11 War.

Now we're supposed to vote for McCain, so we can have four years of a president who is above reproach, and cannot be criticized on any point or for any reason because POW POW POW POW POW POW?

Sounds good to me.

Any reason, sorry. But I guess "every" works too.

Four years of endless fuck-ups, with "but I was a POW!!!" as the excuse. I can't wait.

Wow, I guess McCain could kill someone right in front of them and they still say,
" Ah come on now, he is a POW "
I think Americans are entitled to a President who can count to seven.
Besides he isn't the only POW in the world.

there really is no way to defend mccain's stupidity this time. poor surrogates, their principal put them in quite a fix.

Noun, a verb, and POW.

american education lacks emphasis on logic.

I wonder how people like Watkins sleep at night, he just repeats what he is told no matter what.

I understand that McCain is having his name changed to Formerpowjohn McCain.

Why does nobody bring up the fact that McCain wrote his own hero story and everybody just believed it?

None of the factual details about it were ever really checked. In fact, the full official account of his record hasn't ever been disclosed.

Even some of his medals, some of which required 2 witnesses, were given to him on his word alone of what happened. This was standard with POW's but the point still stands that we rely on his own account for his heroism.

Now McCain the national war hero is something "everybody knows." Talk about a perfect setup for national office.

I say McCain's POW story is a TEST of his honesty and honor, not proof of it.

McCain a hero? Being a hero requires more than being captured and imprisoned no matter how terrible that imprisonment may be.

Are there any Vietnam era POWs in prison? I don't see how there could be if their lawyer used McCain's campaign theory.

Hello C&L. I am someone. I do not respect John McCain's Vietnam service. So your point that "Everyone respects John McCain's service" is wrong.

Mtm
ROFL

pissed off patricia @ 60:

Are there any Vietnam era POWs in prison? I don't see how there could be if their lawyer used McCain's campaign theory.

McCain actually helped shut down the POW/MIA families who believed they had compelling evidence that some POW's were still being held. There is evidence of a big Pentagon coverup.

lj @ 67:

jimbo92107 @ 34:

I like the comparison idea.

How much money did Rezko give Obama? How much money did Keating give McCain?
How many times has Obama cheated on his wife? How about McCain?
How many homes does Obama own? How about McCain?
How many high-powered lobbyists in Obama's campaign? McCain's?

This is fun!

I still think that a split screen ad will really work. Use these and more to give a clear comparison (one side Obama/one side McSame) and then go on to having McCain vs McSame (a flip flop extravaganza) Use this approach over and over until even paid sheeple like Watkins can't save it with hero claims.

that's a good idea actually i would put mccain on both sides...reveal the flip flops....lying

i can't take it anymore. the issue here is that Mccain's campaign has made an issue out of his ability to understand the economy and also that Obama is an elitist. why is it so freakin hard for pundants and media to debate this.

Joe Watkins is as right-wing and as partisan as they come, so I don't put too much stock in what he has to say. And I find it pathetic how he totally ignored the comment Roy Sekoff made about the Keating Five being fair game if the right-wingers will keep bringing up Tony Rezko.

If St. McCain is elected president then will he cite POW privilege (instead of executive privilege) if he is caught lying or wrongdoing? Because if he does then he will be bulletproof since, according to the GOP, you cannot criticize or hold accountable a POW.

Frybread @ 72:

Joe Watkins is as right-wing and as partisan as they come, so I don't put too much stock in what he has to say. And I find it pathetic how he totally ignored the comment Roy Sekoff made about the Keating Five being fair game if the right-wingers will keep bringing up Tony Rezko.

Yeah, noticed. He just basically ignored it altogether, but you could tell he heard it.

I see repug mouth-pieces do that a lot, even more than the interrupt-and-yell-then-dry-foul-when-it-happens-to-them crybaby tactic. They don't care about truth or debate, just look at what they think of the voters, voting and the democratic process; they just want to get their own way. Debate just a big inconvenience to them.

McCain is a traitor. He gave up so much information (flight plans, targets, etc.) to his NVA captors that the US had to suspend its bombing campaign due to a sharp increase in downed aircraft in '69. He violated the military code of conduct and undermined the war effort. To many that may be a good thing, but it's disingenuous to run on his "war hero" status unless survival at all costs is now considered heroic. I even heard (unconfirmed, or perhaps supressed) reports that his fellow POWs tried to attack him on the flight home. They didn't want him to get off that plane alive.

John McCain. aka McNasty by his Navy pals.

John McCain And The USS Forrestal Fire

On the USS Forrestal In 1967, Lt. John McCain was seated in the cockpit of his A-4E Skyhawk jet aircraft ready for launch.
Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his plane.

Did He Start The USS Forrestal Fire?

Incompetence Or A Stunt.

In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' 'cooked off' and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it's 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire. 'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. 'Wet starting' was a common practice among young 'hot-dog' pilots. Lt. McCain had done this numerous time before.

Who should be set blame for these USS Forrestal deaths... the one that started the stunt.

132 Dead Sailors, And Countless Wounded

The Carrier USS Oriskany CVA-34

The USS Oriskany came along side to treat the wounded. Wounded flown off, were transferred to other ships.

McCain left with the wounded, as the ship's Captain and Air Commander saw that Lt. McCain was the blame for the horrible accident and deaths.

When the carrier Oriskany came along side, and McCain was put in a chopper and whisked away. McCain was the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred

The Forrestal Crew, I have a hunch McCain left for his own safety, because the crew wanted blood.

McCain's various stories never added up. Somehow, he was at the center of the USS Forrestal fire. His father covered up the biggest war crime in American naval history, the USS Liberty attack, and saved Israel. Now, McCain is shot down over Vietnam, and the Jewish/Communists supposedly tortured him half to death? After what McCain's father did for the Communists, he could have demanded anything.

The Zionists cooked the Forrestal story for a reason. They said McCain was on the catapult, but video shows he wasn't.

Do you think the bias news media will report this as fact, or let it hide

McCain is a traitor. He gave up so much information (flight plans, targets, etc.) to his NVA captors that the US had to suspend its bombing campaign due to a sharp increase in downed aircraft in ‘69. He violated the military code of conduct and undermined the war effort. To many that may be a good thing, but it’s disingenuous to run on his “war hero” status unless survival at all costs is now considered heroic. I even heard (unconfirmed, or perhaps supressed) reports that his fellow POWs tried to attack him on the flight home. They didn’t want him to get off that plane alive.

He gave up that information despite not being tortured since, according to John Yoo and the Bushies, interrogation techniques have to result in organ failure or death to de called torture.

That Rachel Maddow has gotten her own show is excellent,
That Dan had to go is a bit saddening to me tho.
Coming, as it at first seemed, from the nancy-grace-missing-white-girl-of-the-week school of sensationalist TV lawyers, He was able, thru his Bush League Justice series, to evolve into something i'd never seen before: a TV lawyer who appeared as concerned with the law as with the particular case under discussion.
As unsought for advice, i'd ask Ms. Maddow to consider, once in awhile, having Mr. Abrams on to follow up that investigative series until such time as we are free of the scourge that is the Bush administration Department of Justice.

Kent Weed @ 78:

McCain is a traitor. He gave up so much information (flight plans, targets, etc.) to his NVA captors that the US had to suspend its bombing campaign due to a sharp increase in downed aircraft in '69. He violated the military code of conduct and undermined the war effort. To many that may be a good thing, but it's disingenuous to run on his "war hero" status unless survival at all costs is now considered heroic. I even heard (unconfirmed, or perhaps supressed) reports that his fellow POWs tried to attack him on the flight home. They didn't want him to get off that plane alive.

If any of this is true I would hope that those with courage to do so will come forward soon. However there may be an honor system in affect here.....except for the dishonored Swiftboaters of course.

Im the biggest asshole on television.

McCain is a M A V E R I C K !!!!! Period. End of discussion.

Now repeat my talking points please.

I saw the video on the USS Forrestal Fire when I was in the Marine Corp. I was under the impression that there wasn't any flight operations going when that Zuni rocket went off. The zuni rockets are notoriously screwy, a stray radio transmission could have set it off; and the aircraft that set it off was on the stern of the carrier. Was the Navy really using Kerosene back then!? In addition the crew made the fire worse by spraying down a layer of fire retardant foam then another team came by and washed it away. I don't know, some of your assertions aren't adding up. Please source your material.

Tarro @ 87:

"Uhh, no. Bad plan and quite immoral. But I am sure you were kidding."
You are right Bonkers but they deserve it.

Who? The Repugs? They deserve a lot! Poverty, jail, the pox! Name it! But lumping all POWs together and making some snarky comment or commercial to get at John McCain is pointless, gross and, speaking for myself, doesn't fly. I am not lowering myself to the level of those yuppy morons who ran around the RNC with vacuous grins and purple bandaids on their fingers. Those people needed a galactic-sized spanking.

euthyfro @ 84:

That Rachel Maddow has gotten her own show is excellent,
That Dan had to go is a bit saddening to me tho.
Coming, as it at first seemed, from the nancy-grace-missing-white-girl-of-the-week school of sensationalist TV lawyers, He was able, thru his Bush League Justice series, to evolve into something i'd never seen before: a TV lawyer who appeared as concerned with the law as with the particular case under discussion.
As unsought for advice, i'd ask Ms. Maddow to consider, once in awhile, having Mr. Abrams on to follow up that investigative series until such time as we are free of the scourge that is the Bush administration Department of Justice.

rduke @ 10:

I hope Dan Abrams does not drift too far away.

Perhaps we should start a letter-writing campaign to have Abrams replace Chris Matthews as the main, general news anchor.

Oh, and, Nancy Grace is the devil. :)

Before we channel our inner Corsi, it would be good to have more facts. McCain was apparently in the bottom 1% of his class, but was the class 500 or 899? I've heard both. And there must be a definitive report on the Forrestal disaster. Actually, none of that is Corsi stuff, just facts. Corsi would say that McCain practiced by crashing jets in Corpus Christi, the northeast US, and the Mediterranean, killed a lot of troops on the Forrestal before ditching in North Vietnam in order to aid the communists.

Robert Lee Gates was a military veteran and patriot, he was also the Spokane serial killer.

David Berkowitz was an army veteran and patriot, he was also the Son of Sam.

and also, I agree with comment #99.

Everyone respects John McCain’s Vietnam service...

Please refrain from sharing your delusions.

Joe Watkins makes me turn the channel each time I see he is the reichwingnut on the show. He has as much credibility as Dick Cheney. A lying reichwing preacher is a dead giveaway everytime.

Being shot down by the enemy does not make anyone a hero. Being a POW does not make anyone a hero. Being tortured (which never should have happened to mccain, oh wait gw/cheney/rumsfeld/mccain say it wasn't torture) does not make anyone a hero. Someone please tell me what action mccain has ever willingly done that makes him a hero?

Is it my imagination, or does the GOP throw out the token black guy to speak on their behalf in order to neutralize the Obama effect. "Hey America, we have some too." All three of em.

Doggiebobo @ 15:

Entire GOP Party should just "get over it". Damn, we are ALL sick and tired of
McLame's use of his POW status in each and every BS speech. Get a life "Old
Man"...and find a suitable retirement facility in Arizona or Florida and join YOUR
aging crowd, for you are senile and incapable of running anything but a golf
cart to the grocery store.

McSame's golf cart perhaps...

http://www.badassgolfcarts.com/cartinfo.php?idcart=40

I'm really tired of everyone saying, "everyone respect McCain's Vietnam service".

I don't.

So there, not everyone does.

Okay...to explain the Giuliani campaign i said that we should take the song 'Rock Me Amadeus' and inject the words '9/11' over and over....

what song would work for 'POW'?

Is it just me, or did anyone else get the feeling that Watkins was asking himself . . . "Does anyone believe the shit I'm spewing?"

Yes, McShame tries to hide behind his P.O.W. past as refuge from any criticism, as witness the silly "five years in one house" TV commercial, put out in a desperate attempt to justify John and Cindy's score or so of houses, condominiums, and other digs. But even Obama praises his "heroism" and "patriotic" service during Vietnam. What is lost upon both candidates is the fact that some of us thought Vietnam an immoral conflict America had no business getting involved in, and one that gave our generation a clear choice: to serve or not to serve. McShame chose to do so. I, and many others, chose not.

It really didn't matter that we had a draft then. Those of us who objected to the war on pacifistic and moral grounds found ways to stay home. McShame did not. Not even waiting to be drafted, McShame blindly followed his family tradition of signing up: he volunteered to fight a war that was odious to many of his generation. While some of us were participating in protests and sit-in's, Mr. Flyboy eagerly joined the fray. For all I know, he dropped napalm indiscriminately on the Vietnamese people, a latter day Arnaud-Amaury, the papal legate chose to head the Albigensian Crusade, who, being asked how his troops would recognize a Cathar from an ordinary citizen, said: "Kill them all, the Lord will recognize his own."

Given his willing participation in an immoral war, McShame deserves no respect for his service, nor for his imprisonment. We know that many of our captured troops in that conflict were subjected to far greater deprivations and torture yet refused to cooperate with their captors. McShame was not one of them. He did a few cutesy things like telling his tormentors the names of professional football players when requested to list fellow "imperialists," but so what? He caved. Worse, he learned nothing by the experience. Not only did he support Bush's illegal, imperialist invasion of Iraq, he flip-flopped on the waterboarding issue, which made a mockery of his own captivity.

McShame is a dangerous man who wants to attack Iran, get tough with Russia (although we now know, clearly, the Georgians provoked their invasion of South Ossetia). The last person we need in the White House today is a militaristic, jingoistic, slavering warmonger like John McShame. As for all of his dwellings, I'm surprised he hasn't gone whole hog and, in response to queries some Iraqi vets are homeless, sleeping in underpasses, and going hungry, said: "Let them eat cake."

Sorry to burst your "war hero"illusion bubble guys,but Sen.MCCain was a Navy
BOMBER pilot-meaning he surely dropped a LOT OF BOMBS on innocent women and
children.HERO ??? GIVE ME A BREAK! I was but a child in WWII and have traumatic
memories still to this day of the relentless and absolutely vicious bombing raids
days and more often during the nights (for psychological reasons).Cities and even
smaller towns were incinerated-just because.!We had no place to hide as our dear
"leaders"did---- don't mention the word " WAR HERO'' to me in the context of
a bomber pilot. So he had the bad luck to be a POW- not a good outcome for him,
but to lift such a person into quasi godlike adoration is simply sick.