Finally!

As I wrote in the open thread, this is a rather bad choice. Mr. Obama could have chosen better. Biden is representative of the past of the Democratic Party, a past that has served the Republicans on kneepads while caving in. We need a different type of democrat that refuses to buckled down to these crooks.

As far as I am concerned, Biden is no better than Pelosi, Feinstein and the rest of the old folks in that party who refuse the fight for our collective futures. I'm tired of them betraying the Democratic party. And I am doubly sick of their hand in trying to steer the Dems off course again.

It's about time someone demonstrates that their way of doing things will not be tolerated. I'm am tired of tolerating such mediocre folks stemming back from the Clinton years.

With our economy in the drain and our country in the toilet, we cannot let the Republicans have once inch anymore.

And that would have been highly demonstrative if Obama picked someone unlike Biden.

Biden's only there to appease the centrists and most right of the party. Other than that, he's useless.

I just hope that, this time, Biden remembers to attribute his most impressive and compelling statements to the people he stole them from.

Have a safe flight and comfortable travels, John...

The common man will see white and experience and hopefully that will help Obama's ticket enough.

John, have fun and bring back souvenirs for all of us in the way of photos.

I think Biden is a smart choice and his old democratic bearings will not be as relevant considering the Obama campaign will be dictating his message. Best off all he will be a good vp debate person and he will be an excellent attack dog.

Have a fun trip!

mudkitty @ 16:

First toe shot off...I hope I'm wrong.

I'm disappointed. But you can sure as hell bet that I'm pulling the lever for Obama/Biden. (I won't look good on bumper stickers...)

Sorry - "it" won't look good on bumper stickers, nor does it roll trippingly off the tongue...Obama/Biden...

At least the artificial tension has been broken. Amazing how in the past, the V.P often wasn't even named this early, but now, the news somehow is able to fool people into believing this non-issue is somehow important. By all means, ignore the crimes of the current administration, and instead focus on an issue that is only important to the Republican candidate due to his age (the big bang woke him from a nap). As for Obama's choice, no matter who he chose, it would displease somebody somewhere.

I was unimpressed at first, but this a lot more formidable pick than I originally thought. It reminds me of hockey in 1998, actually.

Stay with me...

Brett Hull left the St. Louis Blues, a team he had become synonymous with after 11 years. Never won the big prize, but recognized as a pillar of the team. He joined the Dallas Stars, a team that was a contender, but not a serious title threat. Hull was seen as just beginning the slide downhill in his career arc.

Most of the league shrugged. Hull, while a goal scorer and a definite star, was hardly the first name that came up when you thought of a missing piece that your team needed for the Stanley Cup. Especially with Dallas, a team that had a reputation as a hard-nosed, checking team. Hull would be an odd fit, many thought, because no one is there to be good support for him.

Funny thing...Dallas did win the cup that year, Hull's first and the team's first. He did play an integral role, adapting to the team and taking their more defensive mindset while staying Hull. He scored fewer points that season than any before, but fit into the Stars far, far better than anyone thought.

Joe Biden is Brett Hull. Not thrilling on the surface. He gives the ticket a lot of what it needed, and cinches up a lot of its existing strengths.

Biden voted for the bankruptcy bill that would make it harder for poor families to get a second chance. But at least Obama now have the credit card industry on his side.

Already on Washington Journal ladies are calling in complaining because Hillary wasn't vetted for the ticket. How much vetting would they have to do? Hillary has been in the public eye for so long that I doubt she would need much investigation.

If each of Hillary's 18 million original supporters sent her just two dollars, she could more than retire her debt. Maybe they could help her more by just doing that for her.

Makes little sense to me. Biden is not change like Obama has promised and he brings no electoral votes to the table. He better hope Biden doesn't screw up on the campaign trail.

As VP, his "foriegn policy experience" ultimately means little because the President makes the final call - unless you have a dumbasss like Bush in office, then it's Cheney who makes the final decisions.

Plus the Dems lose a Senate seat.

The "wow" factor after all the hoopla over the waiting game of the announcement is equivalent to a wet noodle. Not to mention the potential backlash from Hillary supporters.

All that said, we'll have to make it happen, but I don't like the taste in my mouth.

Biden talks a good talk, but in the end none of them walk the walk.

Lets review....2000 Gore (great candidate) chooses Republican in wolves clothing Lieberman....he does nothing to attack/refute Bush/Cheney attacks...hence Gore & Lieberman appear 'weak' to the underinformed masses of the electorate = too close of a race than it should have been...hence, election fraud and the stealing of an election.

2004 Kerry (decent candidate - not a Howard Dean by any stretch) chooses John Edwards (young, aspiring, short on experience)....Kerry listens to DLC and chooses to take the 'high road' against the swift boat attacks combined with the Rovian 'boys choir' (he does like them small....Papa Bear Rove) and Kerry & Edwards appear 'weak' to the masses of the electorate who decided to buy into the fear campaign and someone you can 'have a beer with' instead of the intellectual & the nice guy = hence again, too close of a race than it should have been (by even more of a longshot), election fraud in Ohio & New Mexico and a few others and the stealing of another election.

Forward to 2008, a candidate built to repair the absolute decimation of the American economy, end an illegal war, put us on the path to Energy Independence (with a goal of removing old, polluting, destructive energy - instead of ExxonJohn 'nuke in every garage' McBush), closer to Universal Health Care, Net Neutrality, and restoration of the rule of law and Constitutional Democratic Society. Obama needs a pick who can assuage the 'morons calling for experience' (who obviously don't get the fact that: what good is experience if you have not learned anything from it????), foreign policy experience, and a person who won't lay down like the previous two VP candidates when the campaign gets dirty.

Politics, unfortunately is a dirty, stupid game. It doesn't serve the people, although the GOP has done a shockingly/shamefully good job at making it seem like it does (employing wedge issues, fear mongering, and the kitchen sink to game the election system). Its not in their interests to have an informed electorate, hence the Big 5 Corp Media conglomerates are in the bag for them (because they'd like to make that 2 Big Corps controlling the information and 'news').

Biden - good pick because he won't back down from the Rovian buzzsaw, Obama can take the 'high road' as long as Biden keeps responding to the BS that ExxonJohn '8 Houses' McBush, the 527 GOP front companies, and Rove's latest batch of submoronic playing cards get thrown at them. As stupid as it is...the Corporate Media has turned Presidential elections into a 'Elementary/Middle School Class President Contest'. People are working longer hours (by design....more profit, less workers being paid to be more productive as in doing the jobs of 3-5-10 people themselves) for less money (so they have to have 2 - 3 jobs to support their families), etcd, etc. The 'news' cycle is now 15 seconds of reporting and 30 minutes of pundit noise making. You need someone to be concise, quick witted, and who understands the easy, short comeback is how you 'win' the debate, the frame is what it is, its how you can muddy it back in their face. If you can't change the frame....then you make the frame a sideshow.

The GOP is going to hit below the belt more than ever this election (they already have)...Biden will return the favor. We'd all like to see substantive high discourse discussions of the issues, but that's not the game the GOP plays...we have to respond this time, its far too important of an election not to do so.

I'm happy with this pick considering the top 3 of Bayh (way too conservative and not known outside the midwest - Obama has the Midwest covered), Kaine (not well known outside of VA & relatively inexperienced), and Biden (experienced, foreign policy, not afraid to return fire). Clinton would have been far too divisive (Independents would have turned away), Sebelius would have been decent (but she's also new & not well known outside Midwest - she would have been my #2), Clark would have been excellent (my #1 choice) but I fear the DLC/DNC decided to push him out of the equation (hence his absense from Denver easily explained - and why the DLC is a parasite).

Now the goal should be for Obama folks to get Biden into the program, let him loose but make sure he doesn't go too far (I'm not sure what that could be...the Corporate Media gives a free pass to anything the GOP does...but one little Gaffe by a Democratic representative and its Chernobyl part 2), and stay on message.

OBAMA BIDEN 08 > ExxonJohn 'PC/INTERNETS ILLITERATE IN 21st CENTURY' McBush and whomever 'he picks'...

Yes, Joe Biden knows how many houses he owns. He's an honest guy.

But regarding McCain and his properties. I wonder if Larry Johnson was the real estate agent on any of those deals.

Yours truly,
The Woman In The Leopard Print Slip

2 Senators? When was the last time that happened? And how many actual votes is Biden going to gain for the ticket? Zip. And there appears to be no Southern Strategy. And believe me, Biden has baggage.

I hope and pray that I'm wrong about this. I'd love more than anything in the world to be wrong about this.

liberalNmoderation @ 332:

Brendan @ 312:

Too many here are forgetting that the VP pick should firstly be about experience and the ability to be president. Most here think it's only about a means to get elected. This is wrong-headed. Worrying about what a VP pick brings to the campaign is important but it is much more important to select someone who can rule the country and do it well. Imagine what would have happened if Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle, or (God forbid), Dick Cheney had been called upon to rule the free world. I shudder to to think...

Stop thinking like Republicans and get away from this means-to-an-end mentality. Think as Americans first and keep what would best for the country in sight.

Excellent post.
Yeah...Cheney would have started WW3 for sure.

Second that. Politics is an imperfect science created by imperfect humans. Let us keep our eye on the big picture of the well being of our country instead of the little picture of personal preference and satisfaction.

Pretty sleazy of the Obama campaign to charge folks to send out the message at 3 a.m. so that the media were sure to get it before most of his supporters. Really, really tacky! The only joy is that probably a lot of the Old-guard Media got dragged out of their beds for a rather underwhelming piece of "news": Obama calls for a bunt to advance him to second base.

Why do people who are not going to vote think it's important to say "Well! Humph! That tears it! So-and-so just lost MY vote!" in a public forum?

You don't want to vote, period, or vote for a particular candidate? Great. That's your right. Just don't pretend that your stance is so much more principled and brave and radical than that of people who are voting.

This might be the one issue on which I agree with Phil Gramm: there are an awful lot of whiners out there. "Bu . . . but this candidate doesn't agree with me 100% on everything! And he never gave me that pony I was promised. Okay, maybe that was my Mommy and Daddy who promised me that -- I get confused. But dammit, someone owes me a pony! And until I see that Pony of Electoral Perfection, I'm gonna sit in my room and bite my pillow! Because you're all bastard people!" (Apologies to Christopher Guest . . .)

Seriously. Whether you wanna vote or not doesn't require a fricking public service announcement.

L.A. Confidential @ 146:

Why the hell he choose a guy who's been a part of the problem in Washington the past 30 years?

Are you beginning to get the picture yet of Obama?

Take a look at his advisers. Big time establishment. They don't care if he gets elected with the "Change" message. But when he is president there won't be any "Change." If you wanted "Change" you should have voted for Kucinich.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Lyndon LaRouche as their candidate
for president or VP

Milquetoast @ 282:

Lone Rogue @ 266:

North America doesn't rely on the strength of a person anymore. It relies on the strength of the party. So vote for the right PARTY, not the right PERSON.

That sounds funny as hell coming from someone with the name "Lone Rogue" ...you are not a lone rogue... you are a herd animal. you follow the other cows for the sake of party unity.

...and why did you type "North America"? ...are Canada and Mexico voting in the next U.S. presidential election or something?

Blah Blah Black Sheep...Contribute something, your shtick is tired and played. Wait let me guess, I'm a herd animal of some sort, possibly a bovine...I can't wait for your response...

I'm not thrilled with his pick but to paraphrase our good friend Rummy, "you go to war with the VP pick you have—not the VP pick you might want or wish to have at a later time.."

The 3 am text was a childish insult for Clinton. Punk move.
He is begging for a divisive convention.

Ignorant.

Can anybody tell me why Wesley Clark was never under serious consideration?

Seems he would have been a fabulous choice. Experienced, handsome, military background, etc. etc.

Yippee! Biden certainly has more personal gravitas than all of the other candidates combined. There will be no beating this dynamic duo in November! Hooray for the Dems! Hooray for the american people!

Joe Biden is intimidating even to the most educated of individuals; imagine what he will do to Grandpappy McBush. He'll be chewed to shreds.

crazytown @ 365:

crazylikeafox @ 356:

L.A. Confidential @ 146:

Why the hell he choose a guy who's been a part of the problem in Washington the past 30 years?

Are you beginning to get the picture yet of Obama?

Take a look at his advisers. Big time establishment. They don't care if he gets elected with the "Change" message. But when he is president there won't be any "Change." If you wanted "Change" you should have voted for Kucinich.

Look, lots of us are still with Kucinich and distrust Obama. You've got to understand that Biden was also at the bottom of the list which represented the candidates the pukes are most afraid of.
They are terrified of Biden. He will be a heartbeat away from the presidency, is a friend to the people of this country, and it speaks very well of Obama to have made such a sound and intelligent choice for VP. Please adjust your thinking to accommodate the here and now and acknowledge there is more than one way to skin a republican and take our country back.

Time will tell.

hazmaq @ 328:

Can_You_Hear_Me_Now_? @ 300:

No. 44 @ 229:

liberalNmoderation @ 222: This is why people-driven democracy (not the managed democracy of the Republicons) is disappearing.

VOTE, DAMMIT!

Screw you, you think that you can tell me what to do? That's the problem with you Dems, you think you OWN my vote just because I am a small P progressive and hate the "other side".

Damn, I've been on this veil of tears 54 years and am sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. The country is lost with either of the two major party two ass hats, it will just slide slower into poverty and obscurity with Obama. Starting this election I'm voting for the candidate whom I agree with on most all of the issues.

Nader!

NADER?? Veil of Tears?? Oh you're definately a small p.... all right, to not vote, but

it ain't a 'p' for 'progressive' HAhahhahahhahahhahahhha!

Yup, let's put progressive credentials up for comparison:

War in Iraq? Obama: Yeah, another year or two. Nader: Out now
War in Afghanistan: Obama: Yeah, more more more. Nader: Out now
Universal health care: Obama: Yeah, you are required by law to pay profits to an insurance company. Nader: Universal single payer
Alternitive energy: Nader: Green us up quick. Obama: Green us up slowly, give in on just about everything else (offshore drilling, nukes)
Corporate control of government: Obama: Well no, but 100 mil of corporate money financing the convention. Moster MBNA is VP pick. Nader: Corporations re NOT people.

The list goes on. Defend as many of Obama's positions as you'd like to. Show me how he is more progressive than Nader. I'm listening.

You can talk about Nader being a spoiler all you want but that just ain't true. Florida 2000 five other candidates got more votes than the Gore-Bush difference. Ralph makes a convenient whipping boy for Dems who feel entitled to any non-Republican vote. Why do ya think you're even in the polls? No one can tell your candidate from McSame.

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 202:

Phoenix Justice @ 194:

CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 184:

Phoenix Justice @ 175:
obama/napolitano would be two 'ethnics'. america don't like Italians that much. between msm and hollywood, all they ever depict is the mafia. go figure.

Like I said, it doesn't roll of the tongue, but you can't argue that it wouldn't be a strong ticket. Opening up the Southwest and the West in general is a good campaign strategy and like Governor Richardson (too much baggage, though he was my first choice until he dropped out after Iowa) Governor Napolitano is quite well respected by Latinos/Latinas and has gone toe to toe with the right-of-Hitler Arizona Republican legislature and won many many times.

fear of true progressives then? seems possible.

Not scared of "true progressives" at all. Just wish two "true progressives" were on the Democratic presidential ticket.

I just wanted to add, snark aside, that there never HAS been a truly progressive Democratic president, so why are people deluded into thinking that we're somehow settling for less than we've had in the past on that score if we support Obama/Biden? As I've said elsewhere, that Great Liberal Democratic President you're thinking about exists only in your mind, not in historical reality.

FDR? Ask the Japanese-Americans whose constitutional rights he grossly violated about how "progressive" he was (shit, even Dubya and Cheney didn't brazenly set up internment camps for vast swaths of Muslim-Americans), or the European Jewish refugees he turned down cold when they sought asylum in the U.S. LBJ? Vietnam, baby. JFK? Dragged his feet on civil rights, was quite hawk-like on other issues. Truman? Bombs away! Carter? He coddled dictators when it was in the national security interest. (Look up Kwangju, for starters.) Even RFK, before he turned into the Patron Saint of the Democratic Left, was pretty damn cozy with Joe McCarthy for a time.

So you know, if you're disappointed in Obama, okay, fair enough. He's disappointed me from time to time, too -- because (news flash!), he's human. (I know -- how disappointing from someone who is supposed to be voting for "the Messiah.")

And it's not all up to him. It's up to us, and we need to stay engaged with politics at the local level and build up from there, which is pretty much what the GOP did for decades before the Reagan Revolution (and after, as well) -- they ran candidates in every dog-and-pony show they could find, from water districts to school boards and on up. Do you think the GOP got power because they sliced and diced every single candidate with an "R" after his or her name on the ticket to determine their absolute purity? No. Now, do I think it's a strength of the Democratic brand in general that we tend to be the party of "But what about. . .?" and "I see your point." Sure. I dig nuance. But that's the stance to take AFTER you win the elections and are trying to get stuff done -- there are only two names on the Dem ticket, and each of them is gonna be a disappointment to somebody, somewhere. That's how it goes in Grown-Up Land -- we get disappointed, but we get busy and try to make things better anyway.

And the biggest reason I still like Obama is that he understands the ground game (I'm volunteering for him in Illinois -- we're actually trying to get volunteers to GOTV in Iowa). If we can change the mindset to the point where the Democrats refuse to cede ANY district or ANY state to the GOP, then that right there would be a good start, and it would be more than I've seen any candidate in my memory (I've been voting since 1984) take on.

Bad Move !! Clinton name on bumpersticker and ballot would have invoked '90s prosperity and $1.50 gas. marketing 101 !!!!

Only political junkies know the name Biden. Mccain now will pick woman like kay Bailey Hutchinson to steal the older women vote that feel slighted and who dems need to win.

AS Thom hartmann always says, "Gop plays chess while dumb dems play checkers"

Dems always manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

Now there will be no excitement at convention and a party divided

Conratulations you naive Obamatons !

I'm happy with this. He's the Pit Bull that Obama needs.

Kerry Reid @ 376:

I just wanted to add, snark aside, that there never HAS been a truly progressive Democratic president, so why are people deluded into thinking that we're somehow settling for less than we've had in the past on that score if we support Obama/Biden? As I've said elsewhere, that Great Liberal Democratic President you're thinking about exists only in your mind, not in historical reality.

FDR? Ask the Japanese-Americans whose constitutional rights he grossly violated about how "progressive" he was (shit, even Dubya and Cheney didn't brazenly set up internment camps for vast swaths of Muslim-Americans), or the European Jewish refugees he turned down cold when they sought asylum in the U.S. LBJ? Vietnam, baby. JFK? Dragged his feet on civil rights, was quite hawk-like on other issues. Truman? Bombs away! Carter? He coddled dictators when it was in the national security interest. (Look up Kwangju, for starters.) Even RFK, before he turned into the Patron Saint of the Democratic Left, was pretty damn cozy with Joe McCarthy for a time.

So you know, if you're disappointed in Obama, okay, fair enough. He's disappointed me from time to time, too -- because (news flash!), he's human. (I know -- how disappointing from someone who is supposed to be voting for "the Messiah.")

And it's not all up to him. It's up to us, and we need to stay engaged with politics at the local level and build up from there, which is pretty much what the GOP did for decades before the Reagan Revolution (and after, as well) -- they ran candidates in every dog-and-pony show they could find, from water districts to school boards and on up. Do you think the GOP got power because they sliced and diced every single candidate with an "R" after his or her name on the ticket to determine their absolute purity? No. Now, do I think it's a strength of the Democratic brand in general that we tend to be the party of "But what about. . .?" and "I see your point." Sure. I dig nuance. But that's the stance to take AFTER you win the elections and are trying to get stuff done -- there are only two names on the Dem ticket, and each of them is gonna be a disappointment to somebody, somewhere. That's how it goes in Grown-Up Land -- we get disappointed, but we get busy and try to make things better anyway.

And the biggest reason I still like Obama is that he understands the ground game (I'm volunteering for him in Illinois -- we're actually trying to get volunteers to GOTV in Iowa). If we can change the mindset to the point where the Democrats refuse to cede ANY district or ANY state to the GOP, then that right there would be a good start, and it would be more than I've seen any candidate in my memory (I've been voting since 1984) take on.

Excellent post! He's disappointed me as well, but I sure as hell wouldn't even think of voting for any other candidate this fall. We have way too much at stake!

OMG Obama picked a John McCain clone for VP. He's old, has old D.C. experience (no change there) and he voted in favor of the Iraq war. What an idiot. And there names together rhyme with Osama Bin Laden. It couldn't get any better. I have to get me one of those bumper stickers. Obama-Biden Osama Bin Laden. I love it. Dems are beyond morons.

Well, no-one's going to be perfect. Because if they were, people would eventually look at the VP candidate and ask ... why isn't THIS person running for President instead ...

It's fine that there are folks out there who think of Biden as an astute choice. That's fair.

But my question is when will Democrats finally get the courage to get rid of the folks behind the DLC and put in some new blood?

Is anyone else tired of the Dems rolling over and playing dead with picking only "safe choices"?

This is the one question that I've wanted to know for the longest time.

I mean who is the Democratic party really for anyway if we don't get the appropriate leadership and representatives who can truly bring about change not only in the federal government, but across the country?

How many times do we have to get sick of the Dems just giving in instead of fighting back?

That's why I see Biden as a "compromise choice", and not a powerful pick.

Wow,

I am suprised by all the poor analysis here. Biden is a great pick and compliments Obama well. #1 Obama sets the agenda for change. Biden offers the necessary counter point to think things through from a respected and different POV (not a yes man) and experience to get things done. #2 Biden is doesn't just say he from Scranton, PA, He is from Scranton and can help with all those rustbelt, hardworking blue collar folks the msm tells us Obama can not get. #3 He is not a shy Edwards type, he will rip McCains face off and I can't wait to see him debate Mittens. Remember this is the guy who took down JulieAnne with 6 words (a noun, a verb and 911)!

Come on people the fun starts now!

Obama/Biden 08 &12

The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 3:

As I wrote in the open thread, this is a rather bad choice. Mr. Obama could have chosen better. Biden is representative of the past of the Democratic Party, a past that has served the Republicans on kneepads while caving in. We need a different type of democrat that refuses to buckled down to these crooks.

Biden's only there to appease the centrists and most right of the party. Other than that, he's useless.

In the Down With Tyranny site they show Biden as having the 29th most progressive senatorial record, coming in just after Ted Kennedy. He surpasses Hillary and Dodd, as well as Obama (number 46!) and Lieberman (45). They show him at the 85th percentile level of progressive votes--not really bad in my humble opinion, for a senator.
Also, it is my understanding that Biden is a man of modest means, and that he has not enriched himself in his senatorial career. If that is so, that speaks volumes.

mudkitty @ 38:

I guess if you're going to have an attack dog it might as well be Biden - when Biden doesn't cave he's good at the attack dog role.

Good Morning mudkitty. Nice to see you again. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
Biden will do well being the attack dog . It's his own words in the primary debates that have me a little concerned.
Not much, just a little. I would hope that they prepared for this. They had plenty of time.
Ok, gotta go. Gotta go to work soon. Nice seeing you again mudkitty.

I like Biden, He's a good man. I know his soul. Heh heh heh.

Kerry Reid @ 376:

I just wanted to add, snark aside, that there never HAS been a truly progressive Democratic president, so why are people deluded into thinking that we're somehow settling for less than we've had in the past on that score if we support Obama/Biden? As I've said elsewhere, that Great Liberal Democratic President you're thinking about exists only in your mind, not in historical reality.

FDR? Ask the Japanese-Americans whose constitutional rights he grossly violated about how "progressive" he was (shit, even Dubya and Cheney didn't brazenly set up internment camps for vast swaths of Muslim-Americans), or the European Jewish refugees he turned down cold when they sought asylum in the U.S. LBJ? Vietnam, baby. JFK? Dragged his feet on civil rights, was quite hawk-like on other issues. Truman? Bombs away! Carter? He coddled dictators when it was in the national security interest. (Look up Kwangju, for starters.) Even RFK, before he turned into the Patron Saint of the Democratic Left, was pretty damn cozy with Joe McCarthy for a time.

So you know, if you're disappointed in Obama, okay, fair enough. He's disappointed me from time to time, too -- because (news flash!), he's human. (I know -- how disappointing from someone who is supposed to be voting for "the Messiah.")

And it's not all up to him. It's up to us, and we need to stay engaged with politics at the local level and build up from there, which is pretty much what the GOP did for decades before the Reagan Revolution (and after, as well) -- they ran candidates in every dog-and-pony show they could find, from water districts to school boards and on up. Do you think the GOP got power because they sliced and diced every single candidate with an "R" after his or her name on the ticket to determine their absolute purity? No. Now, do I think it's a strength of the Democratic brand in general that we tend to be the party of "But what about. . .?" and "I see your point." Sure. I dig nuance. But that's the stance to take AFTER you win the elections and are trying to get stuff done -- there are only two names on the Dem ticket, and each of them is gonna be a disappointment to somebody, somewhere. That's how it goes in Grown-Up Land -- we get disappointed, but we get busy and try to make things better anyway.

And the biggest reason I still like Obama is that he understands the ground game (I'm volunteering for him in Illinois -- we're actually trying to get volunteers to GOTV in Iowa). If we can change the mindset to the point where the Democrats refuse to cede ANY district or ANY state to the GOP, then that right there would be a good start, and it would be more than I've seen any candidate in my memory (I've been voting since 1984) take on.

Here, here!

Eileen @ 384:

OMG Obama picked a John McCain clone for VP. He's old, has old D.C. experience (no change there) and he voted in favor of the Iraq war. What an idiot. And there names together rhyme with Osama Bin Laden. It couldn't get any better. I have to get me one of those bumper stickers. Obama-Biden Osama Bin Laden. I love it. Dems are beyond morons.

Lol, It rhymes if you can't pronounce Bin Laden (an idiot). He is older, but he is sharp as a knife, can't say that for McCain. Good luck with the bumper sticker sales smart guy.

Milquetoast @ 269:

mudshark @ 254:

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd support whomever the Dem candidates are.
It's time to move forward folks, so lets get on with it.

You, ...are a herd animal caught up in the blind stampede, watch out for the cliff! ....moo.

I know you're not stupid, but this comment sure as hell is.

As an Obama supporter from the beginning I'm disappointed. My hunch is that if Hillary had received the nomination, she might have made exactly the same pick for VP.

Yea, I'll vote for the ticket but I've totally given up on seeing any change of significance in my lifetime.

Rico @ 403:

As an Obama supporter from the beginning I'm disappointed. My hunch is that if Hillary had received the nomination, she might have made exactly the same pick for VP.

Yea, I'll vote for the ticket but I've totally given up on seeing any change of significance in my lifetime.

Biden will go a long way to help unify the party!

I had two other choices that I preferred over Biden, but as I thought about it I began to realize what a really good pick he is.

There was one final "snif" test though that convinced me he is the right choice. All of my mother's friends are white women in their 70's and 80's and they were all ardent Clinton supporters. So I decided to call them all and these were the answers I got:

"Biden? Really... I like Biden"

"I heard it on the radio this morning and said... YES!!!"

"Thank God! He made a good choice!"

Remembering that older women are one of the most reliable blocks to turn out to vote... Obama made a very wise decision on many levels!

Rasputin @ 405:

Rico @ 403:

As an Obama supporter from the beginning I'm disappointed. My hunch is that if Hillary had received the nomination, she might have made exactly the same pick for VP.

Yea, I'll vote for the ticket but I've totally given up on seeing any change of significance in my lifetime.

Biden will go a long way to help unify the party!

I had two other choices that I preferred over Biden, but as I thought about it I began to realize what a really good pick he is.

There was one final "snif" test though that convinced me he is the right choice. All of my mother's friends are white women in their 70's and 80's and they were all ardent Clinton supporters. So I decided to call them all and these were the answers I got:

"Biden? Really... I like Biden"

"I heard it on the radio this morning and said... YES!!!"

"Thank God! He made a good choice!"

Remembering that older women are one of the most reliable blocks to turn out to vote... Obama made a very wise decision on many levels!

Hello Ras, how have you been?
I'm quite happy with Biden as the VP choice. He was not my first choice but none the less, I feel he will serve both the country and the Democratic party well.
I'm all about trying to get the Dems to unify now. We have a golden opportunity here to correct the wrongs done by this current admin. It won't be easy but I think we'll be ok. It's going to take hard work and brains to fix it. Obama has brains, and Biden knows how to work.
It's going to get very ugly soon. Lets hope for the best.

Lone Rogue @ 274:

It took 65 posts before anyone actually commented an alternative to Joe Biden, and half of those 65 posts were people bashing the selection.

As another person said, if you supported the Democrats this far, and the VP selection is what breaks the straw for you, you were never in this for the long haul in the first place.

North America doesn't rely on the strength of a person anymore. It relies on the strength of the party. So vote for the right PARTY, not the right PERSON.

The "party" not ht e"person".
Where have I heard that before?

mudshark @ 401:

Milquetoast @ 269:

mudshark @ 254:

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd support whomever the Dem candidates are.
It's time to move forward folks, so lets get on with it.

You, ...are a herd animal caught up in the blind stampede, watch out for the cliff! ....moo.

I know you're not stupid, but this comment sure as hell is.

Agreed. Seriously, what kind of comment is this, Mr. Milquetoast ? We support our candidates! I myself am comfortable with Biden as a VP pick. What's wrong with supporting our guy(s) ? How does that make us "herd animals" ? Consider the alternative. It's time to take our country back. I am happy and proud to put my full support behind the Dems.

First, do no harm...

Washington Post-ABC News Poll: Biden doesn't help Obama

dennis @ 413:

First, do no harm...

Washington Post-ABC News Poll: Biden doesn't help Obama

If you want to quote a Poll that means something please get one from and another source... ABC (Fox News Junior) doesn't impress me.

Obama and Biden equal chnage you can believe in?

And I thought McCain was the delusional one.

Slabo @ 416:

Eileen @ 395:

OMG Obama picked a John McCain clone for VP. He's old, has old D.C. experience (no change there) and he voted in favor of the Iraq war. What an idiot. And there names together rhyme with Osama Bin Laden. It couldn't get any better. I have to get me one of those bumper stickers. Obama-Biden Osama Bin Laden. I love it. Dems are beyond morons.

I agree !! Watch Mccain pick a women. THAT will energize the women that WERE gonna vote for Hillary.

Naive Dems love to lose !!! Simply amazing !!! Obama just spat in the face of an army of 18 million dem Clinton voters!

First lady Clinton's husband left office with a 65% approval rating with Peace & prosperity and...most successful democrat since FDR and he kicks them in the face. GREAT MOVE !!! Na na na...we don't want to remind America of that success and compare it to today. No...why would we want to do that... we want it close so GOP can steal it AGAIN !!

Dems are complete MORONS !!! Dems play checkers while GOP plays chess !!

You don't have Frickin' clue! I've been talking to scads of women Clinton supporters all morning and they really like Biden!

Your mistake is to think that they would put gender over policy and it doesn't. They were looking for a reason to warm up to Obama and he gave them a damn good one... they likey Joe Biden big time!

You call saying the Obama is the antiChrist and mudslinging ads on Reszko (which are illegal to the point that Fox won't air them) chess? BS!

This is going to be a knife fight in the mud and Obama chose the right guy to have his back!

Geeze... when the Dems do something right it sure brings out the trolls!

Rasputin @ 415:

dennis @ 413:

First, do no harm...

Washington Post-ABC News Poll: Biden doesn't help Obama

If you want to quote a Poll that means something please get one from and another source... ABC (Fox News Junior) doesn't impress me.

A little early Raspy. My own anecdotal polling, unlike yours, indicates it was a ho-hum pick, that it doesn't buy Obama experience or legitimacy, and that his gaffes and problems contradicting Obama on just about, ohhhh, everything, will be a huge distraction.

Picking a VP from the Washington establishment because you need someone to be an attack dog doesn't project a great degree of confidence. And it's too easy to point this out, but it goes completely against his message of change. So the 'First, do no harm' title to my post was meant to be a good sign for the Obama supporters who are scratching their heads on this pick.

dennis @ 423:

Rasputin @ 415:

dennis @ 413:

First, do no harm...

Washington Post-ABC News Poll: Biden doesn't help Obama

If you want to quote a Poll that means something please get one from and another source... ABC (Fox News Junior) doesn't impress me.

A little early Raspy. My own anecdotal polling, unlike yours, indicates it was a ho-hum pick, that it doesn't buy Obama experience or legitimacy, and that his gaffes and problems contradicting Obama on just about, ohhhh, everything, will be a huge distraction.

Picking a VP from the Washington establishment because you need someone to be an attack dog doesn't project a great degree of confidence. And it's too easy to point this out, but it goes completely against his message of change. So the 'First, do no harm' title to my post was meant to be a good sign for the Obama supporters who are scratching their heads on this pick.

Time will tell the tale... but as I posted earlier...

Why Biden?

1. VP can rip the lungs out of the opposition and say things that the candidate can't. During the debates we saw that Biden can do that. Alterman pointed this out this morning on NBC and it is the function of the VP nominee in a campaign... while the candidate appears to be above the fray.

2. Appeals to working class voters...

Biden comes from a blur collar background... drives his own car, hauls his own wood to the dump etc. etc. etc.

3. Extensive foreign policy experience, national security experience, military affairs experience.

4. His famous mouth and gaffes... if he has a gaffe while ripping up McCain... who cares... that actually is the roll he is supposed to play.

5. He's Catholic... lots of swing voters in the Catholic category and lots in swing states like Pennsylvania and they are in large part working class too boot!

6. Biden knows how to talk prose... He can say the "inconvenient truths" that everybody knows but the candidate can't say. Although he talks too much sometimes... he frequently comes up with the short pithy zingers that ring of direct talk with no punches pulled that register with average Americans.

Left&Left @ 356:

liberalNmoderation @ 311:

Here's a vid our new veep kickin ass and takin names...enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

Great shit Liberal! THE GOP IS SCARED AS HELL OF BIDEN. C ya.

ATTENTION: To any and all who are bitchin' about the Iraq vote, etc., REMEMBER: THE LYING LIARS WHO LIED TO THE SENATE, CONGRESS, AND THE CITIZENS........NEVER FORGET THE LYING LIARS WHO CREATED THE ENTIRE, STINKING, STEAMING, PILE OF SHIT!!!

RE: Biden............this YouTube video is all you need to know.

RELEASE THE KRAKKEN!

Biden is already hitting John hard for his 7 kitchen tables and tying him to Bush on every issue!

Post American @ 428:

Watching the Bidens and the Obamas after two electric and gracious speeches. They were both a little nervous,

Obama is a lot smarter then some of the critics on this thread. I think it was a great speech. Lets focus here.

I think Obama and Biden vs. McCain and Bush is about RESULTS vs. RHETORIC!

Actually, I think it's a good choice..

Let's not overlook the fact that yesterday the Clinton camp took advantage of the heightened level of media alert to step all over the veep announcement and further enrage Hillary's supporters. Read more. http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008/08/hillary-kicks-off-2012-presidential.html

ConcernedCanuck @ 46:

The past? Who could he choose that isn't the past? Hillary? She IS the past. The only choices he had ARE the past.

Regrettably, you are right. But, my question is whether this choice is about throwing anything against the wall to make it stick (Biden) or choosing someone who will at least try to make a difference apart from the drivel we've had in the WH now.

That is my main concern. That is also the reason why I am tired of Dems who roll over and play dead instead of doing something to better the lives not only folks within their country but across the world.

I think Obama is trying to shore up one of the most important issues to most Americans which is national security, if Biden can at least help Obama this way, I think the victory in november will come a lot easier.

The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 52:

ConcernedCanuck @ 46:

The past? Who could he choose that isn't the past? Hillary? She IS the past. The only choices he had ARE the past.

Regrettably, you are right. But, my question is whether this choice is about throwing anything against the wall to make it stick (Biden) or choosing someone who will at least try to make a difference apart from the drivel we've had in the WH now.

That is my main concern. That is also the reason why I am tired of Dems who roll over and play dead instead of doing something to better the lives not only folks within their country but across the world.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't understand why anyone is shocked. These guys/gals that are "elected" all stick together. It's "them" against "us"....they don't consider themselves government employees, but lifelong rulers. The only choice he could have made would be someone progressive, and then sadly he would have been slaughtered come November. Face it, voters are idiots. It's either that or there is no such thing as a democratic election and it's all rigged.

The YOUTUBE COMMERCIALS are already up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg

candideinnc @ 55:

MadInCT @ 53:

Great...the Senator from MBNA one heartbeat away from the Presidency. Now I have to go find out who is running for Green Party so I can vote for him/her.

To be fair, Biden IS the senator of Delaware, the home of the credit card industry. He has represented his constituency, if not all the American people, on those issues. Perhaps if his constituency were broader, he may have voted differently.

They don't have poor people in Delaware? I should move there it sounds like paradise. Or, possibly, he screwed over some of his constituents in order to help his big campaign contributors.

I wouldn't be buying the fireworks yet...thinking that this choice will please REPUGS (not as much as Hillary would have though)...of course Biden has baggage - find me a candidate who doesn't...but it does kinda ignore all those white women that Obama could really have used to pull in the numbers which is HOW you win elections...how many DEM tickets that were pretty smart and good on paper have been in the "L" column? This country can NOT afford more REPUG rule...and I tremble that, with the assistance of our ego-centered celebrity driven media, we are headed right back there...

Mr. McCain, congratulations. You've just become the next president of the USA.

What was Barack thinking? He just lost my vote.

Hey Canuck @ #59,

First things first, If you are digging a hole in the wrong spot, to stop digging is the first change that has to be made.

Let's stop digging!

BuddyGoodness @ 13:

I think Biden is a smart choice and his old democratic bearings will not be as relevant considering the Obama campaign will be dictating his message. Best off all he will be a good vp debate person and he will be an excellent attack dog.

I agree. I just hope the platform is not ...

all corporations all the time!

Bad choice, nobody in this ticket has ever balanced a budget or leading anything anywhere..

Medical Diagnosis by Video @ 430:

BIDEN IS A JERK, BUT KNOWLEDGEABLE.

Not a great choice, but not a bad one either--kind of in between. Obama shows himself as a mainstream Dem. Maybe an "impeachment is off the table" kind. I'll just have to hold my nose, once again, and vote for ObamaBidenBlahBlahBlah.

If they run a add with his "I have a higher IQ then you" flippant responses to reporters when asked about his grades in college that will hurt the working class vote.

Rasputin @ 419:

Slabo @ 416:

Eileen @ 395:

OMG Obama picked a John McCain clone for VP. He's old, has old D.C. experience (no change there) and he voted in favor of the Iraq war. What an idiot. And there names together rhyme with Osama Bin Laden. It couldn't get any better. I have to get me one of those bumper stickers. Obama-Biden Osama Bin Laden. I love it. Dems are beyond morons.

I agree !! Watch Mccain pick a women. THAT will energize the women that WERE gonna vote for Hillary.

Naive Dems love to lose !!! Simply amazing !!! Obama just spat in the face of an army of 18 million dem Clinton voters!

First lady Clinton's husband left office with a 65% approval rating with Peace & prosperity and...most successful democrat since FDR and he kicks them in the face. GREAT MOVE !!! Na na na...we don't want to remind America of that success and compare it to today. No...why would we want to do that... we want it close so GOP can steal it AGAIN !!

Dems are complete MORONS !!! Dems play checkers while GOP plays chess !!

You don't have Frickin' clue! I've been talking to scads of women Clinton supporters all morning and they really like Biden!

Your mistake is to think that they would put gender over policy and it doesn't. They were looking for a reason to warm up to Obama and he gave them a damn good one... they likey Joe Biden big time!

You call saying the Obama is the antiChrist and mudslinging ads on Reszko (which are illegal to the point that Fox won't air them) chess? BS!

This is going to be a knife fight in the mud and Obama chose the right guy to have his back!

Yeah, my wife is/was a strong Hillary supporter. She likes Biden. And so do her sisters(all except one, she married a repub)

Rasputin @ 414:

mudshark @ 407:

Rasputin @ 405:

Rico @ 403:

Biden will go a long way to help unify the party!

I had two other choices that I preferred over Biden, but as I thought about it I began to realize what a really good pick he is.

There was one final "snif" test though that convinced me he is the right choice. All of my mother's friends are white women in their 70's and 80's and they were all ardent Clinton supporters. So I decided to call them all and these were the answers I got:

"Biden? Really... I like Biden"

"I heard it on the radio this morning and said... YES!!!"

"Thank God! He made a good choice!"

Remembering that older women are one of the most reliable blocks to turn out to vote... Obama made a very wise decision on many levels!

Hello Ras, how have you been?
I'm quite happy with Biden as the VP choice. He was not my first choice but none the less, I feel he will serve both the country and the Democratic party well.
I'm all about trying to get the Dems to unify now. We have a golden opportunity here to correct the wrongs done by this current admin. It won't be easy but I think we'll be ok. It's going to take hard work and brains to fix it. Obama has brains, and Biden knows how to work.
It's going to get very ugly soon. Lets hope for the best.

I be jus' fine Muddy ole Buddy and you?

I just dropped by to check out the reaction to Biden... see milquetoast was drivelin' on your boots... geeze how predictable.

As to the campaign... it is getting ugly already and that's why Biden is the perfect choice... remember "a noun, a verb, and 9/11" during the debates?

Biden has blue collar roots and can talk in short catchy put down phrases like that and working class voters resonate with them.

He also has tremendous appeal with the women who supported Hillary and will help close ranks... and his fiery tirades about Bush and Cheney on the senate floor are legend.

McCain wanted to pick a fight... well this election just graduated to a "contact sport." Biden is the perfect attack dog! "Cry havoc and release the hounds of war!"

I'm doing well Ras. Glad to see you still popping in now and then..

.
" milquetoast was drivelin' on your boots... geeze how predictable" .Yeah, go figure. There's a certain other pinhead who pesters me as well.
Aside from that, things are looking up.
I'm wondering who McCain will pick. I have a feeling it's gonna be Gov