Put It On The Turntable, See If It Spins
By Steve Hynd Friday Aug 22, 2008 8:30pmHow's this for spinning Bush's humiliating climbdown in accepting an Iraqi timetable for withdrawal and McCain's poor judgement in wanting a 100 year presence where the US isn't wanted? According to the WSJ's Yochi Dreazen says that Bush was right all along - the timetable can only happen because the Iraqis finally stood up so we can stand down! Wingnuts like the American Power blog are lapping it up. No mention at all of Bush's words from May, 2007:
It makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing. All the terrorists would have to do is mark their calendars and gather their strength -- and begin plotting how to overthrow the government and take control of the country of Iraq. I believe setting a deadline for withdrawal would demoralize the Iraqi people, would encourage killers across the broader Middle East, and send a signal that America will not keep its commitments. Setting a deadline for withdrawal is setting a date for failure -- and that would be irresponsible.
However, the Iraqi Army has no artillery, no airpower, no logistical capacity, no field hospitals and little else that a modern armed force needs. It's a glorified internal security paramilitary police force. And it has other problems too. Even Dreazen has to admit that:
Some U.S. officials warn that the army also is still vulnerable to internal sectarian tensions. Baghdad recently ordered a Kurdish brigade operating in Diyala to move elsewhere, but the Kurds refused, saying they would only take orders from the semi-independent Kurdish government in northern Iraq.
So if the Iraqi Army are standing up, it is only a bit - and the important question is "who for?"
No, this timetable is all about Noor al-Napoleon believing his own hype and really thinking his Shiite and Kurdish factions can keep a lid on Kurds, Sunnis and the Sadrists long-term. It's unlikely to be true, but if Iraq is a free and sovereign nation then it should get to sort such questions out as it wishes to and on its own.
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It was aways the argument they were going to use when finally ordered out of Iraq:
The job was done. We won. We were right all along.
But only 28% of Americans believe that...and no one else in the world.
The only Republican who cannot claim this is McCain. His all too recent proclamations of the need to stay longer prevent him from reasonably claiming victory now.
Sorry, but this "timetable" is all about the election in November. Same thing with gas prices down 50 cents a gallon. This timetable BS could've happened years ago. But it didn't make political sense in BushWorld. Now Bush isn't running. McCain is. The war is incredibly unpopular, so they can now end it with those horrific timetables. It's not that hard to figure out. I cannot even begin to describe what maggots Republicans are. I just can't.
No worries if McCain gets in we will invade Iraq again and even bomb Iran and Russia. No need for the draft we'll send immigrants and minorities. These people should be honored to die for the USA maybe we will then give them equal rights in time. Our American kids have to stay safe at home and go to school or just hang out. McCain will do as he said he'll stay in Iraq for 100 years and bomb anyone we feel like bombing for any reason we make up.
The seeds of civil war are looming again... remember the "Awakening" where the Sunni insurgents sided with the US to hunt down Al Qaeda?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/world/middleeast/22sunni.html?_r=2&pag...
Show of hands here folks... anyone think that these thousands of Sunnis will just calmly let the Maliki government eradicate their leaders and them?
oh no....link to Americaneocon, aka Ameridonaldocon, aka Americaneoclown, aka Americandonkeykong, aka Americhakakhan, at your own peril.
while he's a somewhat amusing troll performance artist, once he comes to your place, he won't leave. just ask the good folks at Lawyers, Guns, & Money.
Yeah well you can pull back to bases, or even pull entire brigades out of country and still bomb the fuck out of civilian targets with impunity. Who's going to stop them? the Iraqi AF? LOL
Shannon @ 1:
Your right on that point. The Moron Factor in America (that 28% you speak of) get their talking points from Rush and Weiner and probably Hannity. No mater what the news, they will always believe they, and the presnit were right. If they could they would vote for the dumb shit again.
I can tell you first hand, the world that i see from on the outside looking in is about 89 percent for Obama (the Israeli;s are not sure)
My little Ex-Pat community has German, Canadian, Brits, a few Aussies and a bunch of Yanks. I don't think one supports mccain, he's looked at like bush and believe me, that isn't good. bush is hated by most.
I personally think bush and his group will have a hard time in the world after they are out of office, Kind of like Augusto Pinochet (Chile) who was hunted down by people outside of Chile because he like bush and cheney had put into law that they could not be tried once out of office.
I would be out there cheering if any of them got picked up by any other government for War Crimes.
I want to see McCain eat his words about Iraq now, but I bet the media won't ask him about it, like they did on Georgia.
Without the war what does McCain have left to sell himself with? Oh, no----the impending threat from Russia!
So what are we going to do with the huge bunker-like embassy we built there? My vote is to convert it into a casino. I'm sure the surveillance cameras are already up.And how are they doing with those permanent military bases? Were they just in the planning stages?
lj @ 9:
His type need fear in order to get into office. A boogy-man to scare everyone. I kind of figured that would happen after the USSR fell apart, we had to invent something new to scare the populace into proper alignment.
Not only are these guys corrupt, they are bungling idiots. What are they trying to achieve. Was it all about cleaning out the treasury?
Rasputin @ 4:
McCain was right about one thing. This fucking mess in Iraq will last 100 years. Bush opened a can of worms so bad, there is no way to round them all up and put them back in.
And we will have to live with the consequences. I truly loath that sorry excuse for a man.
lmab @ 12:
Feeding the MIC and the Oil Corporations. (read bush and cheney)
Maliki's like the decent looking girl at the party that every guy's been hitting on - he's been gassed up for awhile and is believing his own hype, thinking he's better than he actually is.
Let's see the Iraqi Army win just one battle without US air support.
Funny how America brought Al Queda in Iraq in the first place. Is this what could be called irony?
What is this Drill Now as doing on this site? The oil companies are the problem and this Drill Here Drill Now crap is just another big oil scam like $125 per barrell.
French-speaking AFP White House correspondent extraordinaire Olivier Knox managed to work in every discarded bushie talking point masterfully in this piece that walks us through this outright reversal in policy.
In reversal, Bush to accept Iraq withdrawal timetable
by Olivier Knox Fri Aug 22, 3:35 PM ET
You have got to love that snark.
The whole piece is pretty good. Credit where it's due.
Don’t kid yourself, though the armed forces may be pulled out, the contractors will stay even if they have to holdup in the largest embassy in the world just to make sure they get a good % of the oil!
By the way, do kids today even know what a turntable is?
Looks like Bush stole all of Obama's ideas on how to clean up the "War awn terrah"
Put at least 2 more brigades in Afghanistan (Obama called for this in the primaries)
Draw down 120,000 troops in 18 months from Iraq (Obama called for this in the primaries)
Is Bush taking Obama's advice? or is the evil little Bushie just trying to cut Obama off at the pass and take away his main campaign tools?
The Eurasians are our allies. They have always been our allies. The Eastasians are our enemies. They have always been our enem//The Eurasians are our enemies. They have always been our enemies...
Frank Lee Speekin @ 20:
Sure, it's where you spin some mighty Muzak records in da mix. Preferable a technics 1200.
SHHHHH!
Just let them DECLARE VICTORY... so then all of our troops can come home!
I really believe we, "the Left" are torn over Iraq. Part of us wants the darn thing to work out well and quickly as posssible, so we can get out and not be going back in. I don't care who gets "credit' for it,
because no Republican should ever have the gall to run on anything relative to the years of debacle in Iraq. Then, on the other side, it seems that whenever there's a report, blogs such as Huffington and Kos
want desperately to point out that in reality things aren't going "well". But where's that ultimately leave us in the end? I just wonder about the schizophrenia I see here and elsewhere.
The bottom of this CL article is should be filed under "neo con opinion".
I believe Iraqi army can stand up, little you know about Iraq history. but certainly once the sectarian wars between Sunnis and Shiites fade away, the war will be with Kurds. Kurds controlled by their nationalists and they want independence badly, they want to take more than they give, the Kurdish issue is old as old as modern Iraq history. they already tried to be independent when Brits took over Iraq in the beginning of the 20th century and they failed. Other Iraqis are sick with take but no give, beside no other nation in the area want them too.
Regarding the military funding, Iraq budget is very enough to complete building the army in those years . US can provide assistance, training and protection from foreign threats. Now there is a feeling in Iraq that the government is strong and the army is strong enough, that effectively destroys the morale and feelings of the mob, and provide the citizen with a cause to rally around.
Of course the signing statement saying Congress couldn't tell him not to build the 50 some permanent military bases would argue the fact Bush ever intended to leave.
I think Republicans have spun so much they no longer have a strong grasp of reality, they suffer from the strongest case of cognitive dissonance in history.
But no matter what they call it, I'll be glad to see the troops come home. I live in an army town and see how it affects the lives of these dedicated servicemen.
And don't look now, but I hear some very senior Afghan officials say their preference in aid is equipment and the Americans out. This last unfortunate accident will only accelerate that.
Cernig,
Thanks for posting this, but I'm not quite convinced this so-called "withdrawal" is what everyone is hyping it out to be. How many troops will Bush withdraw? Is it just the combat units? Does the withdrawal include mercenari.......errrr contractors as well? Assuming there are no permanent bases (i.e. concrete barracks etc.) besides the embassy in Baghdad how many troops can the embassy itself house?
The devil's in the details and I'm not prepared to accept the Bush/Pentagon/NeoCon hype about such a withdrawal until it's all said and done.
my friend @ 26:
A war with the Kurds has been in the making for years now ever since many in the Military Industrial Complex and their surrogates have realized they can benefit from sectarian division inside Iraq.
For example, Israeli special forces have been training the Kurds in northern Iraq since way back in 2004. Israel has also been "assisting" the Kurds in building a new airport in Kurdish territory. Once U.S. troops leave (supposedly) one can expect the Kurds to be supplied with more aid and weapons in an attempt to maintain an alliance of convenience with Israel and the U.S.. The U.S. will do so out of keeping the Iraqi government in check while supplying both sides, the Kurds and the Shia/Sunni sects, with arms. Israel will benefit from having a base closer to Iran from which it can strike. It's a win win for all except the average Iraqi citizen who ends up homeless and unemployed.
It would seem American intentions in Iraq from March 2003 on were to kneecap Iraq's infrastructure and established civil and martial institutions. Allowing rampant looting,plunder and pillage to take place across Iraq and the dismantlement of established Iraqi governance institutions from Iraqi Oil Ministry to Iraqi Army and Air Force were successful Shock and Awe elements. Iraq and the Iraqi people were taken backwards and downwards by the Americans to open up Iraq for American Occupation and American desired policy outcomes in and for Iraq. Iraqi oil control and exploitation gaming surely at the middle of much American desires and intentions for attacking,invasion and occupation of Iraq.
The chain of events since March 2003 pointing to this as being premise for attacking Iraq,destroying Iraqi social/infrastructure fabric and introducing levels of daily terror,death dealing ,civilian mayhem patterns and refugee displacement of civilians that here in United States if applied in scale to what Iraq has seen would fully disrupt United States and Americans too.
Surely after the 2006 US national elections the Bush/Cheney WH and pretty much all the rest of WashingtonDC went with raising the mayhem and deathdealing thresholds Americans brought to Iraq more still. The Democrats won many more seats in Congress but the Bush/Cheney WH and the pro-war crowd did not suffer much despite these Democrat gains. We got the Surge and two more years of American hell raising in Iraq. This now morphing into some kind of murky SOFA and partial American withdrawal plan that is being fitted around 2008 election and surely being gamed by Bush/Cheney WH to push American Occupation of Iraq as far forward towards 2016 as can be done in remaining months of the Bush/Cheney regime. Bush/Cheney WH did not build those American super-bases and that super embassy in Iraq just to have a Obama/Biden WH leave them behind. Americans will be in Iraq for a long time to come no matter who wins the WH in November 2008. That is certain.
Here in mid 2008 the Bush/Cheney WH is seeking to prolong Americans being in Iraq as far into the next Presidents first four year term as they can. The SOFA snafu and Iraqs American backed "Green Zone Puppet Government" bucking over time lines and Americans losing imperial status in Iraq surely unwelcomed evolutions of events for American Occupation of Iraq the Bush/Cheney WH is desperate to contain and shape to still favorable terms despite these unwanted setbacks.
Iraq will need to throw off and out the Americans. Just like Vietnam did.
Bush/Cheney WH now gaming Iraq to set up GOP for 2008,2010,2012 and 2014/2016 electioneering slams and scams against Democrats in Congress or in the WH.
The Bush/Cheney WH now suddenly taking up timetables,timelines and time spans for some American pullback (surely not all American pullback ever) to grease GOP 2008-2016 electioneering ploys and misdirections. A "surge" of another sort.
Iraq will have to endure/overcome the aftermath of American adventurism and reckless imperialism excess and warcrimes conduct. It will be tough going but Iraq needs to kick the Americans out and work through the wreckage of what Americans created with senseless and plain stupid invasion and occupaton of Iraq.
Americans surely would prefer to keep Iraq in role of supplicant but Iraq likely is not headed that way.
Iraq was not a derelict country and the Iraqi people were not a derelict people prior to Americans busting in and going on a war crimes spree/colonial occupation stroll of Iraq.
Americans have demonstrated levels of incompetence and malice in Iraq that truly should preclude anymore American adventurism for the rest of this 21st century.
Should preclude but will not.
American Exceptionalism has crashed and burned in Iraq.
American stupidity and arrogance likely are already being taken up for some more American Adventurism elsewhere on the planet. Iran? China? Georgia? Russia!!
How very convenient that Russia now "emerges" as being big, bad and evil again.
How very convenient.
"However, the Iraqi Army has no artillery, no airpower, no logistical capacity, no field hospitals and little else that a modern armed force needs. It’s a glorified internal security paramilitary police force."
Please stop lying about the Iraqi army. Company level 60 mm mortars are mostly complete. 8th IAD has 81 mm mortars. The MoD recently announced the purchase of many 120 mm mortars.
9 IA divisions have location commands (base supply units.) All 14 divisions expect to have them by next January. All 14 divisions expect to have MTRs (Motorized Transportation Regiments) by January as well (except for the armored/mech divisions that don't need them.)
4 corps headquarters, 4 corps QRF (Quick Reaction Force) combat brigades, and 4 corps support brigades are currently being formed.
The Iraqi army will soon be the most capable army in recorded Arab history. Cernig, are you jealous of the Iraqi Army? Do you think that you can never compare to the men of the Iraqi Army? Is this the real reason for your racist smear job against the Iraqi Army?
hahahahahahahahaha...
This is such bullshit. The U.S. is NEVER leaving Iraq. We have dozens of superbases and plan to manage the Iraqi's in a 'reservation' type strategy similar to what was done in conquering the American west.
New Texas will be controlled through a series of lightly manned fortifications and air power to maintain oil flow and subdue the brown skin Iraqi Navajo.
McDuff @ 28:
I must agree.
With Republican control of the military any American withdrawal from Iraq will resemble the Russian withdrawal from Georgia.
We shouldn't underestimate the lengths Republicans go to for their constituants (oil companies).
The Sunis, Shiites, and Kurds have been enemies for 1400 years. It is a pipe dream to believe that they can come together under a central democratic government. When the US leaves Iraq there will be a blood bath until one group controls the others. It does not matter if we leave next week or 100 yrs. from now. It will happen, so we may as well pack up and go home now.
The only good thing to come out of this is that Bush now takes full ownership of Iraq. He started the occupation and he's gonna end it. Now when the inevitable collapse of peace occurs, nobody will be able to say that Obama had anything to do with it as President.
I pray that I'm wrong, and that peace breaks out in that region, but I don't believe it. More violence is coming, and when the finger-pointing begins, Republicans will have nobody but themselves to point at.
Given Iraq was a post-World War I hodgepodge in the same way Yugoslavia was, a three-way Balkanization seems inevitable--a Kurdistan, of course over Turkey and Iran's dead bodies, a Sunni Iraq, and a Shiah Iraq.
With a withdrawal of American troops, I can't help feel that that process will start. And when it does....oh dear!
so what if they cannot stand up they are muslims and all we want is that oil we deserve for freeing them
now give us our oil
this is the 21st century countries dont invade and occupy other countries except we americans and we have a god given right to do that. check the bible it says so.
signed
just your average evangel neo con repub
A largely forgotten pre-invasion talking point was that we had to save the Shia from Saddam. A short 5 1/2 years later, it turns out we "win" by throwing down with the Sunnis. Would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting and gruesome.
And it will probably get worse. We leave, and the place probably erupts again. And sadly, that really will be good news for Republicans. Because then it's President Obama's fault...
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