Joe Biden Introduces Himself In First Campaign Video
By Logan Murphy Sunday Aug 24, 2008 8:45am
Democratic Vice Presidential candidate Joe Biden makes a personal introduction to voters in his first official campaign video. Biden seems very much at ease and his no-nonsense, candid demeanor really comes across as he talks about his life, experience and his goals for the campaign. He makes no bones about being outspoken -- and with the ugly, Rove-style campaign the McCain camp is waging, I don't have a problem with that.
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So it goes...
Biden was calling to invade Iraq over the false claims of WMD as far back as 1998 and was among the minority of Democrats to support the illegal invasion of Iraq.
There were better choices than Biden.
Gee so we have a 66 year old VP...can't complain about McCain being OLD anymore....that fresh young guy that promised the country youth youth youth...he he hehe another promise down the rabbit hole. Wonder how much more he will "sell out" and show he is a cheap politician just like the other residents in congress.
I don't give a shit what poll says what, Biden was the BEST choice possible. Also, NO MATTER WHO OBAMA WOULD HAVE SELECTED, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CRITICIZED! Joe Biden will kick the school yard bullies hard in the nuts.
I'm going to vote for Obama, but 15 seconds into the video and I was already tired of listening to Biden.
Left&Left @ 3:
Right. Sure he will. Uh huh.
8 years and he hasn't even been able to lift his foot.
I'm still not sure what I think about Biden... But on a better note, there was this idiot here in my town who was making threats about Obama at the waffle house and the secret service came and got him...
Biden needs an "populist" image makeover. Maybe an ad of him at the Grand Tetons standing next to a Gulfstream jet showing off his concho belt.
heckys bidens a great choice for obamas great plans of furthering the repig agenda , hes in love with the patriot act fisa the demise of habes corpus the retention of fast action troops just on the horizon in iraq to repel any iraqys still willing to fight for thier country, and will backup obamas plans to widen the war in afganistan , the wars will never end as long as we have politicians willing to believe that bushes phony war on terriorism really must be won, i have a hard time wondering why people complain about palosi and ried going along with the bush agenda but wont hold thier candidate accountable for the same views these two tools hold,
And John McCain needs to be reintroduced with this ad.
Jed provides a dose of reality to McCain's latest attack ad:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/08/jed-provides-dose-of-reality-mccains....
Just read over at TP that the 'great and wonderful surge' has killed 239 US TROOPS so far this year! The surge is working for who?..the funeral business?
So much for "Change we can believe in."
So much for "Hope."
It's business as usual and round up the usual suspects. Just for a fleeting second one hoped that this time it might be different. But fortunately, not having drunk the Kool Aid and being able to read, it was clear from the get got that Obama would be more of the same.
In which case, might as well vote McCain and hope for 4-years-and-out.
Pathetic.
"Meet the New Boss", get a clue. Just because he's been around a long time doesn't make him anti-change. He isn't even that much of an insider, he commutes to work by train.
Stop whinin' 'bout Biden. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvYaaUmTeaA
Meet the New Boss @ 11:
Don't worry an extreme home makeover for every American is on the way. Bo and Smokin' Joe are going to see to it.
Biden should talk about his votes in support of the completely corrupted 'financial services' industry and the stiffing of the American consumer. check out the website, www.therealjoebiden.wordpress.com Let's get beyond the soundbites for all of the candidates.
I don't much care for the Obama/Biden ticket. Obama is a centrist, which in today's reality means conservative.
I would much rather be voting for Dennis Kucinich, who would be a true agent of change.
Having said that, I must say that I will hold my nose and vote against four more years of neocon abuses.
I will vote for Obama/Biden because this ticket clearly has the best chance of stopping the runaway ammo train that is the neocon/corporate/christofascist alliance.
I will vote for Obama/Biden in my hope of keeping another reactionary judge off of the SCOTUS, which would place every woman of childbearing years in the position of a sort of third class breeder for the Empire of the United Corporations of America.
I will vote for the party that might be more inclined to protect what I have left of my fireman's pension. It was the Republican policies and a Republican donor that torpedoed my pension in the first place. It could happen to you.
I will not vote for somebody who thinks that "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran is a funny joke.
I will vote for the Democratic ticket with the great hope that they will rise to the occasion; I expect that I will be disappointed. But disappointment is far better than armageddon.
If I am disappointed by their four year performance, I will revert to voting for Socialist or Green Party candidates.
But if I were to vote my heart this time around, McCain just might get his finger on the button.
That could put an end to everything.
......4 Oh Really says: I’m going to vote for Obama, but 15 seconds into the video and I was already tired of listening to Biden.......
In 1998, Joe Biden didn't have the insight he obtained in 2005! Personally, I can listen to Joe Biden talk all day long. I especially like it when he goes into the incompetence of the Bush Administration. I hope we hear more from Joe about Bush, Cheney, Rove incompetence. I hope that by election day, Joe Biden will have managed to imprint the Bush Administration incompetence into our brains -- just like Weapons of Mass Destruction.
There is a decidedly RIGHT-WING MEDIA BIAS ! Please think about that statement. And then, contrast it with the oft repeated phrase "liberal media-bias," in order to really lay the latter beast to bed and see how partisan politics has hurt us all. I cry for the future of our nation, gun-loving, war-proned, and ignorantly heading in the direction that our status quo loving media are content on driving is into (the proverbial ditch of extinction). As a citizen, I want my media back ! Thank you Rachel Maddow for keeping the comments incisive, as I am poorer that our grandfathers/grandmothers... As I sat in a chair at the salon this weekend, I asked the hair stylist if she could name a single bill that congress passed in the last 7 years... She met my question with a declaration that she liked Reality shows... THE MEDIA HAS A RIGHT-WING BIAS AND IT'S HURTING US ALL !
Love,
k
tfitz @ 14:
Biden doesn't have to. People will just see "the image" and substance will go in one ear and out the other.
All it takes to become President these days is a half a billion. A great image marketing team, and few slogans and buzz phrases and your set.
Case in point... http://www.alternet.org/audits/96203/the_three_dumbest_neocon_prediction...
1 -- Isome Hussein says: Biden was calling to invade Iraq over the false claims of WMD as far back as 1998 and was among the minority of Democrats to support the illegal invasion of Iraq.......
In 1998, Joe Biden didn't have the INSIGHT he obtained in 2005!
LAConifidential@5
Yes LAC, I do believe. It doesn't cost me anything and it won't hurt me. Until Sen. Obama lies us into a genocidal murder celebration for oil or shits on the Consitution, he deserves a chance. After eight miserable years with Dubya and four additional years of wretchedness promised from Grandpa, you continue to baselessly proclaim that things will be the same. You offer zero solutions, just more piss to drink. I'm a 39 year old black guy who wants to be optimistic, you're a clearly beaten down old black man saturated with hopelessness...I actually feel sorry for you.
tyree@8:
Tyree's tirade, for sure, there. Hey sweet darlin'- you still hungover? Are you skipping out on English 101 class this morning?
Centrocitta @ 16:
I like him, too. I anticipate his kicking some serious McCain tail from here on out. This is the right man to get Obama elected and the two of them will make a great team. IMHO, of course.
Apparently the Dems are just slicker and better at lying then the Cons. The cons just crush you over the head with lies and the Dems just tweak peoples emotions, hopes and dreams while lying out of their you know whats.
Mick P...
well let's see..
obama is not left enough for you {or me}..
but letting another maniac repo in office would be okay as long as you do'nt have to hold your nose while you vote?
p.s. by the way these elections have benn stolen for quite a while now
For anyone supporting Obama to accuse another candidate of conducting a "Rove-style" campaign is beyond ironic. The Obama primary campaign was a carbon copy of the Bush 2000 run. Complete with character assassination, vote manipulation, media hype, and big money insiders. The Democratic Party needs to purge itself of Obama and his crew or it will be end up in the same state the Republican Party is in after Bush.
BTW ..thanks Tyree
UselessOlHOfromNO Says: say it would be swell if you could answer me why palosi and ried get by with selling us out but your hero gets a pass but i guess you got no answer just insults, oh and dont judge me by what you drink as i only have a dozen beers in a yrs time , hope that clears up the alcaholism question,as for english 101 guess thats the class i missed while i was in korea ,say where were you we needed you then,
Johnny@26 Nice try. Now go back to comedy school.
Senator Joe Biden, by election day, I would like for you to have imprinted Bush, Cheney, Rove incompetence into my brain -- in the same manner they imprinted Abu Musab al-Zarqawi into my brain.
Some people don't vote but they nag all day long. Fatalism. What a poor inhuman quality.
Centrocitta Says: —
— In 1998, Joe Biden didn’t have the INSIGHT he obtained in 2005!—
Oh' it's not so clear cut as that because there was ample evidence to the contrary that he refused to consider. He's a hawk and that's that.
"Biden also refused to honor requests by some of his Democratic colleagues to include in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings some of the leading anti-war scholars familiar with Iraq and Middle East. These included both those who would have reiterated Ritter’s conclusions about non-existent Iraqi WMD capabilities"
"The veteran Delaware senator has been one the leading congressional supporters of U.S. militarization of the Middle East and Eastern Europe, of strict economic sanctions against CUBA, and of Israeli occupation policies."
He could have made a much better choice.
chicano2nd @ 31:
It's called mediocrity. When their not breeding or sucking down Television.
Johnny @ 26:
Yeah...right Johnny..put down the crack pipe and get some oxygen to that shriveled little brain of your...might do ya some good.
Obama has run a pretty damn honorable campaign...can't say the same about the competition can ya?
bushisaliar@25 In case I didn't make it clear, I plan to vote for the Obama/Biden ticket. I don't think that I could ever vote for a republican and cannot recall having ever done so in forty some years of voting.
If I want to hold my nose, that's my business.
If I didn't make it clear that I'm voting for the Democratic ticket, that's my mistake.
Isome Hussein @ 32:
Like who?
"But the presence of a liberal on MSNBC instantaneously destroys traditional principles of Journalism." Glen Greenwald
Does michelle malkin speak for us as people ? Or does she speak for her own narrow self interest that has caused many people to die, including American Soldiers.
Right Wingers Hate our Troops ! Chomsky stated it best that invading another country is the supreme War Crime. Andrew J Bacevich should be nominated or pushed to be part of any future administration's war policy team, as his profound experience with the Hell that is War should temper some of the mindless, destructive and batshit crazy positions that are continuously offered by the likes of kristol, malkin, o'reilly, beck, hannity, savage, etc.
Where does this leave Iran ? How has the most powerful nation in the world not been able to address the issue of (in their words) islamofascism ? Have we asked ourselves the hardest questions ? What caused their rise ? Who supported their creation ? What are we not seeing in the media about the hardships exacted on the people of Middle East and the terrible cost being paid by our troops ?
The constitution doesn't make room for the first amendment to be curtailed in times of war. Actually, it should be strengthed, as the current prince ruling our country with the complicity of much of our elected governing body has decided to acquiesce to the monarchial fanaticism exhibited by our (crazed) executive leaders. If you think I am crazy, then legitimately argue with me, don't lob invectives my way, as I can say that legitimizing torture is crazy ! Spying on us Americans is loco ! Dispatching Blackwater to *keep the peace* is tantamount to funneling some money to a private militia, in order to keep the order around your castle. How about rendition ? PLEASE READ THE FEDERALIST PAPERS and you will see that the government is not designed to self-regulate: WE THE PEOPLE IT SAYS ! Where are the people ?
It saddens and emboldens me. Also - how about this one ? - http://www.alternet.org/rights/95351/at_jfk_airport,_denying_basic_right...
Peace,
k
BTW ..thanks Tyree think nothing of it ,
So we can expect a glossy "commercial skin" over the Dem Convention I assume.
Did you people know that John McCain was a pirisoner of war?
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
If mediocrity is asking too much then vote McCain.
Most boring thing I have ever watched....seriously.
CafeenMan @ 41:
There's no guarantee of anything really, except competitive struggle with one another for work and money.
Mike @ 40:
Holy crap! That changes everything! You'd think if McCain really wanted to win he'd at least let that fact slip out once or twice. Everybody would vote for him. A genuine war hero!
CafeenMan @ 44:
There is almost no discussion of the meaning of anything, just emotionalism managed by politics, marketing, etc. Thats why we're in the mess we're in.
Mike @ 40:
Nah...seriously? Now, where did you hear that? ;)
CafeenMan @ 44:
I think we should let him get away with stuff.
Gosh! That clip didn't entertain me. I wanted some other guy for VP. Obama doesn't vote the way I think 100% of the time. Guess that I'll just stay home and let McKeating win. At least I'll be entertained 100% of the time - at least until we're all vaporised.
Don't say or do anything, nothing matters, nothing will change. It's in the cards. That's fatalism. Hope springs eternal for those of us that feel we have something in our lives that make it worth fighting to preserve.
"To anyone who really believed Barack Obama's candidacy represented "hope" and "change," the selection of Joe Biden as his running mate should put that illusion to rest."
And Obama picks...
A friggin wet dish towel.
Thanks!
Not Clinton, not Clark, not Gore....
Bid...
Who?
Pack it in...
This shit is over.
Rusty "One House" Shackleford @ 47:
Well yeah...
I mean it's a documented fact that repatriated POWs suffer greatly from infidelity, binge home buying, discarding ethics when aspiring to reach one's goals, geographic confusion among many other afflictions.
In fact, it's also widely known that all these things clear up instantaneously when a person reaches his goals and generally performs at a much higher level of wisdom and enlightenment than others trying to reach the same goal by another route (not volunteering to be a POW for example).
26 Johnny Says: For anyone supporting Obama to accuse another candidate of conducting a “Rove-style” campaign is beyond ironic. The Obama primary campaign was a carbon copy of the Bush 2000 run. Complete with character assassination, vote manipulation, media hype, and big money insiders. The Democratic Party needs to purge itself of Obama and his crew or it will be end up in the same state the Republican Party is in after Bush.
Johnny, if you are intent on proving your point, please cite some sources I could possibly verify, not just broad sweeping statements, as Global Warming is really happening, no matter how you disagree with its inevitable impact on the oil companies that depend on us NOT VOTING WITH OUR DOLLARS. To the best of my recollection, I don't remember Obama employing Rove or any of his disciples to seed the campaign of change that is truly needed in this country. Hence, I will shelve your critique until you can provide some sources and citations that I can verify.
However, I will agree with one underlying theme to your post - Presidential Campaigns in this country (and many others for that matter) have devolved into a high school popularity contest where facts and actual voting records don't matter anymore. Where is the truth in the coverage ?
I could write all day on the instances where I sit after having read an article and want to find that journalist and ask - really ? You think the current situation is not bad ? We're doing better in Iraq ? WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM ! Some still cover the deepening crisis in our country. As Andrew J Bacevich stated on Bill Moyers two Fridays ago - we need to look at home and deal with some of the simmering problems that are eating us alive.
Hoping that this message finds you well Johnny, as I welcome great heated debates - just please don't call me names (ok, ok, you can if you want to, but that won't necessarily make some of your statements true !) or attack my family (did you have to go that low ?) or cite fake French libertarian sources (o'reilly tried that once, as did ann coulter on CBC's The Fifth Estate and was called on it, but she never got back to Bob Mckeown, who stated the fact that Canada never faught in Vietnam; now that I think about it, how am I supposed to speak with someone that cannot agree on the facts of the matter - if Canada was never in Vietnam, what good does it serve you to lie about it ? hmmm, I will need to think more about it). As Stewart says - don't mean no disrespect.
Kudos,
k
32 Isome Hussein says “Biden also refused to honor requests by some of his Democratic colleagues to include in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings some of the leading anti-war scholars familiar with Iraq and Middle East. These included both those who would have reiterated Ritter’s conclusions about non-existent Iraqi WMD capabilities”.........
Would I be correct in assuming that the above mentioned leading, anti-war scholars, as well as Scott Ritter were NOT born and raised in Delaware and had NOT lived ten years in Austin, Texas while George Bush was governor?
Fine, Biden is not perfect
But you forget something NO politician is! Every single one Voted Wrong on an issue, had the Wrong Judgment at some point in time and has had past gaffs, mistakes and also personal problems.
Obama's message is change, sure Biden is old Washington but did you really think America would vote on just having 2 change candidates?
WHY McCain might beat him?
Prejudice usually comes coded in distortions about Obama and his background. To the willfully ignorant, he is a secret Muslim married to a black-power radical. Or—thank you, Geraldine Ferraro—he only got where he is because of the special treatment accorded those lucky enough to be born with African blood. Some Jews assume Obama is insufficiently supportive of Israel in the way they assume other black politicians to be.
Then there's the overt stuff. In May, Pat Buchanan, who writes books about the European-Americans losing control of their country, ranted on MSNBC in defense of white West Virginians voting on the basis of racial solidarity. The No. 1 best-seller in America, Obama Nation by Jerome R. Corsi, Ph.D., leeringly notes that Obama's white mother always preferred that her "mate" be "a man of color." John McCain has yet to get around to denouncing this vile book.
Let's face Obama need an old white guy with military/foreign/washington experience
I’m sure if he chose Clark or whoever else there would be other problems.
They Vetted, they probably picked him for a good reason!
Oh yeah Selibus and Clinton
while it is change, Clinton has too much baggage (did you see McCain’s new ad with praise form Clinton trying to get her voters), Selibusis is prefect for Obama's messages but as Rove points continue to live and breath, both Racism and Sexism might be to much for DEMS to handle.
People don't Vote for VP but for PRESIDENTS
chicano2nd @ 49:
I think what your trying to say is develop the ability to be hopeful and optimistic while everything around you is crumbling and falling apart?
Mike @ 40:
Yeah, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4msHu_9EQ
Chris Gamble says: —
— Like who?—
Like someone who didn't support the war in Iraq, and isn't a hawk... a Democrat who doesn't sit RIGHT of center on the political spectrum. Someone who is NOT responsible for helping Reagan implement the property siezure and no-knock raids (from the War on Drugs) that have killed too many citizens innocent of a crime and someone who did NOT vote for the Republican-backed resolution authorizing the United States to go to war unilaterally.
If the best we hope for is less evil (figuratively speaking) we will still wind up with evil.
Fine, Biden is not perfect
But you forget something NO politician is! Every single one Voted Wrong on an issue, had the Wrong Judgment at some point in time and has had past gaffs, mistakes and also personal problems.
Obama's message is change, sure Biden is old Washington but did you really think America would vote on just having 2 change candidates?
WHY McCain might beat him?
Prejudice usually comes coded in distortions about Obama and his background. To the willfully ignorant, he is a secret Muslim married to a black-power radical. Or—thank you, Geraldine Ferraro—he only got where he is because of the special treatment accorded those lucky enough to be born with African blood. Some Jews assume Obama is insufficiently supportive of Israel in the way they assume other black politicians to be.
Then there's the overt stuff. In May, Pat Buchanan, who writes books about the European-Americans losing control of their country, ranted on MSNBC in defense of white West Virginians voting on the basis of racial solidarity. The No. 1 best-seller in America, Obama Nation by Jerome R. Corsi, Ph.D., leeringly notes that Obama's white mother always preferred that her "mate" be "a man of color." John McCain has yet to get around to denouncing this vile book.
Let's face Obama need an old white guy with military/foreign/washington experience
I’m sure if he chose Clark or whoever else there would be other problems.
They Vetted, they probably picked him for a good reason!
Oh yeah Selibus and Clinton
while it is change, Clinton has too much baggage (did you see McCain’s new ad with praise form Clinton trying to get her voters), Selibusis is prefect for Obama's messages but as Rove points continue to live and breath, both Racism and Sexism might be to much for DEMS to handle.
People don't Vote for VP but for PRESIDENTS
john j @ 59:
In McCain's case, there's a very good chance his vice-president will be president. Has anyone noticed McCain is kind of old and looks pretty tired and worn out?
I believe the object of the progressive/democrats this election year is to win back the white house to try and make some major corrections in the direction our politics and economy have taken for the last number of years.
Most C&L folks like and support Obama, but many Americans cannot see past the color of his skin or his so-called lack of experience. And, many Americans have been in shock mode since the 9/11 false flag attack; they remain afraid and insecure about change of any kind. And, as we know, the Rovian right has had the propaganda machine running in high gear to ensure that they stay scared enough Not to vote for Obama.
Ergo, choosing a known quantity as a VP running mate was absolutely necessary if the Democrats want to win. Biden is well known, he has 30-some years of experience, most-notably in foreign policy, and he is personable and is not afraid to speak his mind. And, yes, he has supported some legislation that is awful.
I have some doubts about Obama, but I know for sure that if McCain is elected we are definitely screwed. If Obama had chosen Kaine, or someone else on that short list, or another prominent progressive Democrat, there would be no way he could get elected. Biden provides a lot of older Democrats and, I think, a lot of independents a level of comfort that will convince them to vote for the Democratic ticket.
Bo and Smokin' Joe are going to see to it.
************************************************
Make your momma proud, you racist fuck.
CM@60 It's because he was a POW. For five years he had no pillow.
Biden is a good choice to be Obama's attack dog against Grandpa. Clinton wouldn't have been as strong and tough against their dirty tricks.
"...can’t complain about McCain being OLD anymore…"
You (we) shouldn't have been complaining about that anyway. McCain is bad enough in policy position alone without the inane attacks.
"that fresh young guy that promised the country youth youth youth…"
Show ANYTHING from Obama's camp where "youth" was promised. You can't.
Relax and see if Biden is going to support the correct positions now, which it seems he does.
I believed the war was wrong from the begining but I recognize I start off with my inherent biases and I have NEVER seen an intelligence report or spoken with a head of state, forgien or domestic. Nor do I have any extensive insight to geo-political strategy or warfare strategy.
Average Joe @ 64:
Oy. The things you read here.
Other than the fact they've both praised McCain more than they've praised Obama and Hillary only more so since she was in the primary race longer, it'd be hard to make the case Hillary would be the wilting flower compared to Biden when it comes to firing back at McCain.
I'm trying to remain open-minded about an Obama-Biden ticket. I understand the selection more after reading extensively about it yesterday. Biden bridges the experience gap, the foreign policy gap, the elitist gap, (Biden is actually one of the poorest senators, contrary to what has been posted above), etc. Clinton Dems would have been outraged had Obama selected someone with less experience, so it tries to bridge the Clinton gap. I also understand, from what I've read, that a Biden ticket theoretically narrows McCains down to two nominees, with Romney being one of them.
I am also trying to remember that the Democratic party has many faces and facets and that Obama is trying to appeal to the most people through this nomination. Historically, the VP nomination has meant little. With the Bush Administration, that has changed significantly with Chaney.
Some additional food for thought . . .
The Next President Will Disappoint You:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bacevich24-2008aug2...
(Or watch here)
Bill Moyers Interviews Andrew J. Bacevich (Professor of International Relations at Boston University, retired Army colonel, and West Point graduate)
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/profile.html
LA @50
There's a saying that your attitude creates your reality. Poor attitude= poor reality. Like it or not, Hillary lost and won't be the nominee. Moreover, she has asked that people like you get on board and elect a Democratic president in November.
Complainers don't lift up America and don't get us one step nearer to getting rid of the Neocon criminals that have torn down what other centered people like us progressives have tried to build.
So why don't you and the other posters here that can't get over Obama being the nominee help us solve problems instead of being the problem? There is absolutely nothing redemptive in your complaining.
The Spaniard @ 65:
When the people whose job it was to find WMDs come out and say Bush is wrong - there aren't any, what more do you need?
Nobody is off the hook on the call for war. I knew and it's not my job to know. The people whose job it is should have known and they have no excuse for anyone in our government to have voted for the war.
bmw H 528 @ 68
Well said.
I would not have like it much had Clinton been the VP nominee, because I would have thought Obama's decision to be a weakness, but I would have gotten over myself and continued to support the mission of driving out the promise of Bush Administration's 3rd term. That is the REAL issue here. Perhaps there is no promise of real change with Obama-Biden, but what does LA @ 50 think that a McCain presidency promises? A future?
10000 times the man that Edwards never was.
Obama is a genius. Biden is the perfect attack dog that will not garner the side-door distractions that Hillary would of brought
i saw bill richardson last night on the news on one of the spanish channels last night. it was difficult to understand because of the bad reception and i have extremely limited spanish language skills but he was doing a great job speaking on behalf of obama with regard to immigration, the election, "hillary," etc, etc.
while i was watching i was thinking "why couldn't the vp have been bill richardson!" but then i realized that the republicans by their very nature make that an impossibility -- "oh my word, a black man and a hispanic -- who speaks a foreign language! -- running for pres/vice pres! get the women and children in the bunkers!"
biden's activities with regard to iraq and the bankruptcy bill will never be forgotten by me and he has a long way to go before either are forgiven, but given the realities of living with the right(-the-same-number-of-times-a-day-as-a-broken-clock), obama made a choice that i can live with.
but let's give some c&l love up for bill richardson -- quietly out and about, speaking like an adult to people who listen like adults on behalf of obama.
Bmw H 528@68 & CMINCA@70,
LAC is very much like Grandpa....bitter old people like them don't give a shit about the future.
Fil @ 71:
I wouldn't count on that.
"Did Biden tag-team Lewinsky in the Oval Office? Some people think so. Stay tuned to Fox."
.......69 Caffeen Man said: When the people whose job it was to find WMDs come out and say Bush is wrong - there aren’t any, what more do you need?.......
Somebody's ex wife?
People are saying Obama is just a politician; Obama is a man whose job is unfortunaly run by politics
Only in our own dreams world people see the truth about the MSM, John McCain's a liar and every body knows he is not Muslim.
Well, guess what? Americans are idiots. The Change we want will have to wait. Voting for a Black man is big enough change for most Americans and that’s not even looking at Obama stance on issues! He could promise Gold, Free heath care and a Cure for Cancer and they would still say he's the anti-Christ
If it makes you feel better, you can rationalize Obama's missing 10-point lead on the basis of Clintonite sulkiness, his slowness in responding to attacks, or the concern that Obama may be too handsome, brilliant, and cool to be elected. But let's be honest: If you break the numbers down, the reason Obama isn't ahead right now is that he trails badly among one group, older white voters. He does so for a simple reason: the color of his skin.
Those who say they lost hope in Obama, You are just naïve.
Change will come but first we need are foot in the door. Show that change is not scary and then clean up Bush & co after all the damage (including WH/ GOP/ ROVE propaganda)
If we lose now, change will never happen. So Biden I welcome you.
Left&Left @ 73:
C'mon, Left². If you want to come here and lead the Obama brigade that is fine. But just because someone doesn't just STFU and fall into line like you'd like them to do when it's looking like Obama's dissing of Hillary may go down in history as one of the most boneheaded Dem VP selections since... well, since the last two, doesn't mean you need to say he's a bitter old person who doesn't care about the future.
JoeMarasmus @ 12:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah????
Do you read what you write before you post it? I mean that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here and brother, there has been some bat sh*t crazy stuff.
"no nonsense", eh? except for the part when he voted to go into iraq.....
Left&Left @ 73:
Bmw H 528@68 & CMINCA@70,
LAC is very much like Grandpa….bitter old people like them don’t give a shit about the future.
C’mon, Left². If you want to come here and lead the Obama brigade that is fine. But just because someone doesn’t just STFU and fall into line like you’d like them to do when it’s looking like Obama’s dissing of Hillary may go down in history as one of the most boneheaded Dem VP selections since… well, since the last two, doesn’t mean you need to say he’s a bitter old person who doesn’t care about the future.
--------------
Personally, I cannot stand Ms. Clinton, but I understand the dedication and loyalty of her admirers. This VP nomination was their last hope and now it is dashed. However, I hope they don't vote for McCain, believing he will only serve one term and Clinton will run again in 2012. That would be foolish and self-destructive.
L.A. Confidential @ 24:
How long are you going to keep bitching and moaning because your personal savior, Hillary, wasn't nominated? You're like a broken recording that plays the same pathetic whining over and over and OVER again. Any credibility you may have once had is pretty much spent now.
I hate to break this to you, but both Bill and Hillary are CENTRISTS. Even though Bill Clinton, like Obama, was certainly no "true progressive," most sensible people would agree that he was 100x better than our current embarrassment, President Dumbass. The non-inductees to your Doomsday Cult are going to vote for Obama because they think he'll probably be no worse than Clinton, but McSame will most likely be no better than President Dumbass, which is a pretty realistic assessment.
It’s amazing how eight years of a totally fucked up administration has scrambled the brains of so many people that they’re convinced our government is hopelessly beyond repair. Bush, Rove, Norquist et al don’t believe in a government that helps the ordinary citizen. They wanted to “drown” our government in a bathtub, so they grabbed control of it and turned it against the ordinary citizen, hoping that dejected folks like you would feel alienated and lose any enthusiasm to participate, because less participation among ordinary citizens = more control for Corporate America.
Well, congratulations, man, because you Doomsday Cultists are the neocons’ wet dream brought to life. The rest of us who actually give a shit about where this country is headed aren't just going to "lie back and enjoy it" while the right wing rapes us. We're going to make do with what we’ve got and attempt to enact small, incremental changes for the better.
Getting Obama elected instead of McBush is one of those small changes.
Johnny2Bad @ 78:
Change is a bullshit term.
You are a politician after one year in Washington and you are a politician after 30 years in Washington. All I see on this blog is people with buyers remorse who voted Obama ONLY on the principle of "change". This isn't the first or the last time a candidate runs on this theme, GET OVER IT.
Vote Democratic "Because we are better than the Repugs".
dennis@77
Ever since Obama disposed of Hillary in the primary LAC has made nothing but anti-Obama comments while saying nothing negative about Dubya's anicent rent boy, Grandpa. Deductive reseasoning suggests to me that LAC, in a Passive aggressive kind of way, is for McOld. If you wish to apologize for LAC that's you biz Dennis. He should at least be fair in accessing Obama rather than come to this site with Hannity, Malkin and Dennis talking points.
Left&Left @ 83:
Yeah, OF COURSE our resident McBushBot is going to defend L.A.! They're on the same team, after all...
......How long are you going to keep bitching and moaning because your personal savior, Hillary, wasn’t nominated? You’re like a broken recording that plays the same pathetic whining over and over and OVER again. Any credibility you may have once had is pretty much spent now.......
These are McCain supporters -- not Democrats. They're afraid of Biden. Biden is going to be a broken-record about Bush incompetence -- and he has facts!
joe, your video says it all. i have always respected your experience. you've been at it a long time. your experience with foreign policy is second to none. your devotion to crimes against all people but women and minorities in particular is laudable. Above all, in this campaign, we need your candor, your ability to sift through the bullshit and hit the opposition where it hurts. this is where obama needs you most and i believe this is the reason above all, your foreign policy experience not withstanding, that Barack chose you as his running mate. he wishes to be perceived as the "clean" candidate (apologies there and you know why) and he can't allow himself to get into the fray of calling out the obvious. that's where you come in. you have a knack for pointing out the wrongs without alienating your constituency and perhaps opening the eyes of some on the other side who have not drunk completely of the kool-aid. Joe, if ever there were a savior for the democrats and liberals, you are it. wish i would have known you while we were both in college, about the same time, different parts of the country.
.......“Did Biden tag-team Lewinsky in the Oval Office? Some people think so. Stay tuned to Fox.”.......
I guess FAUX Noise is aware that the father of Nick Berg, Mr. Michael Berg, is also from Delaware, Joe Biden's state. Yeah, this is going to be VERY interesting.
I've read that he's against net neutrality... If so, then that may be a deal breaker.
I can tolerate them putting WHATEVER operative they want in place, but don't mess with my ability to circumvent the media, and find the truth.
This web site used to be FOR net neutrality... Is it now against it?
I did not vote for Obama or Clinton or Edwards or Dodds or Biden or Kucinich or Gravel.
I did not vote for any GOP fascist candidate.
So I think I can safely say that I have no dog in this fight.
Having said that, just because a man takes the train back and forth to work doesn't make him progressive and doesn't excuse him from the political choices he has made in his career. Joe Biden is a consummate insider, a politician who can be counted on to defend the interest of his financial industry constituents. A man who stands up for American imperialism by never questioning America's "right" to tell the rest of the world what to do.
What we have, in Obama / Biden, is the more polished wing of the United States War Party. It's not that they oppose war and American unilateralism. They both assume these as givens. What they argue is that they are better able to execute the neo-conservative agenda than the NeoCons themselves.
Stop defending these posers just because you're a faithful Democratic Party member. Stop drinking their Kool Aid. Listen to what they actually say. Listen to Biden rail against Russia like the Cold Warrior he's always been. Listen to Obama pledge more death and destruction in Afghanistan and promise to spread the conflict to Pakistan. Listen to Biden hedge in his concession that his Iraq War vote was a mistake but only because the President and his regime were incompetent. Presumably a Democratic regime would have led us to "Victory".
The government of the United States is under the control of a political elite who relentlessly whore for their corporate masters and differ only in how much they're willing to pretend to have a conscience. Yes there are a few people in Congress who mean well... but they'd be doing us all a favor if they would step up to the microphone, denounce their colleagues, and resign.
Now that would be courageous and those would be people who would be worthy of your vote.
Kaine, Clinton, Sebelius, Biden, Bayh and Richardson were vetted
Vetting
-often refers to performing a background check on someone before offering them employment. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.
-A party's presidential nominee must choose a vice-presidential candidate to accompany him on the ticket. Prospective vice-presidential candidates must undergo thorough evaluation by a team of advisers acting on behalf of the nominee in later stages of the vetting process; the team will examine such items as a prospective vice-presidential candidate's finances, personal conduct, and previous coverage in the media.
-can refer to the process of analyzing stocks, bonds, and any other securities and financial instruments before committing money.
Biden was chosen for a reason, Look change candidates are nice but how well do we know them?
Do you know were there money or personal investments are?
Or past problems (look at Edwards and had the nerve to still run for President)
Or conflicts of interests (Senator Evan Bayh and questions about potential conflicts of interest from his wife's work on seven corporate boards that paid her more than $837,000 last year.)
Have you seen there taxes, friends and maybe even pastors.
Caroline Kennedy was a Vetter and she's not a political kiss ass
Obviously they thought Biden was best.
Left&Left @ 83:
My point is, he's got just as much right to his opinion as you do, and you don't need to resort to saying he doesn't care about the future because he's not aboard the same train-wreck you have yourself firmly fastened in and bolted down to.
Christ, Left², I'm the Republican and the pro-business guy- you're the liberal and the lawyer. Something's wrong with this picture here when I have to be the one defending the minority opinion and someone's right to express it without being slandered.
as one soldier in the iraqy movie on hbo the killing generation said , at the end of the movie , thiers the ones who are going to be killed iraqys and afgans and the douchbags that will be allowed to kill them! usa usa usa! biden obama mccain usa usa!
dennis@77
Dennis, I had never attempted to suppress anyone's right to the First Amendment, I just challenge LAC on his one sided anti-Obama BS. Why do you believe that you can reach my conscience all while people like you consistently slam Obama as if he never says or does anything right? I'm just like you Dennis, I have a soul similar to you Neocons...I don't give a shit. We can make nice on 11-5 08.
dennis @ 91:
Who the hell is saying anyone has no right to an opinion? Man, you just make up shit and run with it, don't you?
"Slandered." Gimme a break. The lady doth protest too much, methinks...
On paper, allot of people are better then Biden (not my choice) but good point.
Sure not picking Clinton (not my choice) might have been a stupid (which only the future can tell)
But they made a choice for reasons they can't say
Biden is old Washington but Obama would be in charge.
Obama will be the one to make decisions. (If Biden wanted to start war in Canada, I do not see Obama letting it happen)
Biden supplies a safety net
From (crazy/AA/Radical/Muslim/Foreigner) to (American/progress/hope/change)
Some times New and Old need to work together
I just want to say that this will be my final post on this site. I have never seen people whine so much in my life. It wouldn't have mattered who Barack picked b/c someone would have had a problem with it.
Yes Clark would have been a great pick or maybe even Clinton. Maybe even a relative newcomer who had only been in politics for a short time. You just can't please anyone. However, I can't stand by and read post of people who claim to want a change in policies and say, "Well I'm not voting for Obama b/c of Biden" or "Well let's hope McSame is only 4 and out". Shame on you. If you had any faith in Obama that he can change things, then you should support his pick.
By the by, and this should come as a little shock, but he IS a politician. I love him but I know he's a politician. That comes with the inherent ability to show pragmatism whilst appearing to sell out. It comes with the territory. Granted there is selling out, but not every decision can be perfect. So might I suggest you listen to what he has to say, make suggestions, fight for them, and show up in November and vote. Hold his feet to the fire if he backs off on his proposals, begin to build up someone to replace him in four years via the Democratic Party or a third party that has a more Populist message and widespread funding and support.
In closing, I'm going to continue on this site but avoid looking at the comments because they give me a headache.
Oh and you right wing trolls who are being paid by McCain surrogates to...well...troll, get bent!
rekroc @ 94:
If you re-read my statement, I said 'his right to express an opinion without being slandered'. I don't think I'm using poetic license to describe what Left² described LAC as 'bitter old people like them don’t give a shit about the future' as slander, but I'm not the lawyer, either.
If you guys don't like a certain poster's thoughts, it's just as easy to skip over them as it is to continuously berate them. It's like you think you are quelling an uprising-- nipping something in the bud before it mestatasizes.
Brian @ 96:
I hear ya. This site has become infested with Doomsday Cultists. And I think most of them ARE right-wing trolls trying to accrue McPoints so they can save up for that prized O'Reilly Anal McDildo.
Brain @ 96
Great post! I hope you reconsider not posting on this site.
Oh, boy, am I soo tired of this constant whining and bickering and moaning on progressive websites about this snippet Obama said, and that vote of Obama, and about this VP short list and that one. "I want Hillary", "and I want Richardson", "and I want Sebelius", "and I want Edwards".
And now it's Biden - and the whining continues. "I will keep my nose voting", "and I won't vote at all", "and I'll vote for McCain", and on, and on, and on, and on.. It's as if you guys haven't had enough of the eight years of crap we've been through.
You know, Bobby Kennedy wasn't available this year, so we had to settle with what we have. But then you'd whine about him, too, wouldn't you?
I think Biden's terrific. And Obama is terrific, too. Both have their shortcomings, but so effing what. In 2008 I'd vote for any Democrat, centris or not. I'd even vote for any (true) centrist Republican, as long as the McBush/Rove cabal is defeated. If you can't see what's at stake, I really wonder if you're truely hurting at all.
You know who you are, Pumas and almost-Pumas, and I'm sick of you all!
I can see how it would be difficult to find an anti-war, anti-empire VP candidate within the Democratic Party. There are virtually none in the Senate, and the precious few on the left wing of the party are so marginalized that they could never seriously be considered.
But that should tell you something. If Obama's handlers did all this vetting and Biden was the best they could come up with, then there really is no reason to take the Democratic Party seriously when it claims to be an agent of change. It is not an agent of change and will fully support the status quo in Washington.
Let me add, however, that I am optimistic but not for the reasons that those who dream that our political system can yield meaningful change might have. Rather, I believe that the Janus-faced War Party will continue down the path of empire and eventually bankrupt the country and destroy the economy. At that point, the U.S. becomes just another nuclear-armed "player" in a multi-polar world, unable to tell anyone what to do or enforce its hegemony on others. It will cost most Americans their standard of living but that seems a small price to pay to rain in the terrorists in Washington D.C.
@brian
@rekroc
@CMINCA
I see I'm not the only one fed up with the whiners. I was so upset with the first half of comments that I just typed away.
Don't let these idiots drive you away. This website is still terrific and needs all the constructive comments it can get!
frenchfries @ 102:
Is it "whining" to criticize the selection of Biden as VP candidate? Please explain. Or is the comments section only for high fives and group hugs?
dennis @ 97:
If you don't like a certain poster's thoughts, then you can just as easily skip over them as well, instead of accusing people of "slander" when they're simply pointing out the inanity of a previous post.
Hey, but that's very heroic of you to defend a "minority" from being "slandered." Keep up the good fight.
"Pro-business," dennis? I guess you'll be voting Obama then. With luck we'll have a return to the economic prosperity of the Clinton years.
Meet the New Boss @ 103:
No, it's whining to repeatedly insist that WE'RE ALL DOOOOOOOMED!! AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU OR I CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!
Yeah, that's what I'd call whining.
I agree with frenchfries - stick around guys. Tune out the whiners and trolls that come here for that reason only, there's plenty of interesting and constructive content being generated daily.
Brian @ 96:
Glad you closed with the acknowledgment about some of the "whiners" being organized "concern trolls" because they are.
Its no secret that the liberal blogs have been targeted by Rethug blogs who have supplied them with links to C&L, D-Kos and others and encouraged them to sow dissention into the mix where ever possible.
Their main talking point has been "well there goes the part of change", which of course is idiotic because it ignores the fact that Obama will be the President... not Biden!
It also ignores the fact that Obama could never have brought change by himself because he needs the cooperation of the congress. Even if the Dems pull off a "super majority" in both houses there are far to many DINOs and Blue Dogs on the lobbyist payrolls to get Obama's agenda through the gauntlet without a seasoned advocate to lead the charge in congress. Biden has a extremely excellent record of being able to cross party lines and he knows the levers of power in congress better than most.
I originally wanted Clark or Hillary to get the VP nomination, but the more I thought about it Biden is a far better choice. Clark has no experience in congress and Hillary has not been anywhere near as successful in the Senate as Biden.
Obama also needed an outstanding attack dog since McCain brought in Rove to advise on his new negative campaign. During the debates in the primaries and for that matter through his entire career... Biden has been superb at being able to express complex issues in simple, understandable terms and come up with those pithy one-liner zingers that the MSM loves.
Biden is perfect for the job!
As to Clark and Hillary... both would be good for cabinet positions that I can think of. The problems America faces thanks to the disastrous policies of Bush, Cheney, and the Neocons, which McCain supports, are dire and the hole we are in is so deep that we will need all the best minds we can find to dig our way out of it!
the fact is if obama keeps his campaighn promisses your treasury will keep being depleted financeing the occupation in irq and in afganistan, the war profiteers will still be rakeing in the big bucks, to widen the war in afganistan obama will need to keep for the presidency the rights bush stole from you, the patriot act fisa habius , he cant get rid of them , sure mccaims for the same things hes a repig , i never seen so many people willing to cut thier own throut just to get more of the same as they got!
Frenchfries @ 102
I'm staying put. I find all the comments interesting. I do become weary occasionally, but people have to vent.
We all need to remember that these are politics. Politics are ugly. I remain idealistic and hopeful, but realistically and practicallly balanced remembering that fact.
Rusty "One House" Shackleford @ 105:
Raising the cap gains tax to 28% ain't gonna bring us economic prosperity, Russ.
Even with luck.
That's why McCain HAS to pick someone with economic experience because I don't think he's had to even think about finances for the last 30 years.
Could you point to one thing Obama has done in his career that would show he'd be competent turning around the economy, besides the good deal he negotiated (got, really) from Northern Trust on his jumbo mortgage that you think was so shrewd.
dennis @ 111:
McBains experience does not help if he has not learned from it.
Keating 5.
Deniis @ 111
I'll name two (just off the top of my head)
Amend NAFTA
Provide tax credits/incentives to business who do not outsource their labor overseas companies
Chris Gamble @ 82:
Explain to me how the Democratic Party is "better" part?
Better on the war? Its still f*cking going two full years after Pelosi promised to end it and they've funded it ever since.
Better on the economy? How's that "free trade" thing workin for ya? Ever found anything at Wal-mart made in the USA? One thing?
Better on energy? Paleeze. That one's too easy.
On the constitution? Obama and McCain were both on board the FISA "Compromise" and both oppose impeachment.
So, "better"...how? How the f*ck are the Democrats now in power...."better" than the Republicans now in power?
Hint 1: There's not a rats ass of difference. They're all totally involved in one thing: Preserving their power (paycheck).
We've abdicated our responsibility by putting our faith in each succeeding presidential "savior" to swoop in and deliver us from the previous horror. The unpopular evil (Bush II) or pervert (Clinton) or incompetent (Bush I) or popular evil (Reagan) or wimp (Carter).
Obama's not going to change anything. He's running to replace the current idiot president with those outrageous executive powers that congress handed Bush firmly in place.
Hint 2: Its us. We have to tear down the big money political system first. Then figure out who'll be our voice. it just won't work the other way around.
(Thanks to Andrew Bacevich for my script)
MTNB@103
It is whining when you complain about things you cannot change. Need help with that concept? Read the Serenity Prayer and learn the difference between complaint and affirmative actions.
And Dennis---your point about civility is well taken, I don't necessarily agree with your methodology but believe all of us could disagree without being disagreeable.
Johnny2Bad @ 114:
Hmmm. That sounds extremely vague. Can you fill us in on some of the details?
Rasputin @ 108:
Raspy- I check in to see quite a few blogs on both sides, mainly directed through memeorandum.com, but I have never seen a 'Rethug' blog encourage anyone to target a liberal one, and then supply the link. Maybe I'm wrong or just haven't stumbled across the site, but could you provide a link or tell me one where this occurs? As for me, I started posting here a full 3 years ago this week- (I remember wussing out on a challenge reply to nonny mouse that I had to take my kids to the season's first h.s. football game), so maybe there was a site that was giving McCain points that long ago that I might've accrued enough to buy my own McMansion by now, and I just fucked up not signing on then.
dennis @ 91:
If you were truthful about your motivations it would be laudable, but your not... your primary motivation is to stir up as much contentiousness as possible so please stop BSing all over this thread!
As to Mccain and his economic plan and business... no doubt he is pro-corporate interests, but his economic policies are the same as Bush's and you can see the result... to your liking???
McCain's primary economic adviser is none other than "Enron" Phil Gramm, the guy who deregulated the energy markets and allowed the Enron debacle to happen while his wife was on the board of Enron and he got over a million dollars in fund from them.
This is the same Phil Gramm who also led the charge for deregulation the banking industry to allow them to be both savings banks and mortgage brokerages, as well as issue securities... all of which opened the door to the "subprime mortgage" disaster and the current spate of bank failures. This also has produced "the credit crunch" and now even viable businesses can't get the necessary "operating lines of credit" to survive. I know... I've got three friends who are CEO's who are crying the blues to me on a daily basis over this.
The same Phil Gramm who deregulated the Commodities Futures market that has allowed speculation on oil futures that have threatened the economies of not only the US, but global economies. Did you enjoy the $4 a gallon gas prices?
Yes indeed... McCain good for business??? Corporate interests yes, business not a chance!
dennis @ 111:
Phil "Enron" Gramm is McCain's first choice for Treasury Secretary... you want to tell me why that would be good for the economy?
CMINCA @ 113:
Better read his NAFTA position again (assuming you have once). He only wants to "amend" the labor, safety and environmental sections. He's a full on free trader.
"He stated that he would not abrogate NAFTA unilaterally: "I'm a big believer in opening up a dialogue and figuring out how we can make this work for all people." He declared that he is indeed a free trader; he will also work to ensure that trade treaties are revised to include higher labor and environmental standards. He insisted that he is consistent: "I've always been a proponent of free trade and I've always been a believer that we have to have strong environmental provisions and strong labor provisions in our trade agreements." -Obama, Fortune Magazine
dennis @ 117:
Uh, dennis... Come on. It's obvious you're not even trying. Do a google search. Points. McCain. Blogs. It's easy. Or do you need help navigating our internet tubes like Grampy McBush?
rekroc @ 116:
Click on the link. Take the time to watch the Moyers/Bacevich interview. Then get back to me.
j2Bad@114
I don't appreciate your reference to Jimmy Carter as a "wimp." He isn't. He had the courage and vision to suggest conservation and living within our means at a time when that was decidedly unpopular. And if we had actually adopted his suggestions we would be better off today. He also decided to lead by example with no prompting and build homes himself for Habitat for Humanity. And finally, ask yourself---did you or any of the others you cite win a Nobel Peace Price? No? How about that.
As to your suggestion that we need a radical makeover of our government, we probably do. Your suggestion that we need to have it immediately and all at once is a politically impossible pipe dream. Get a grip and have some patience, and recognize that our gains will be incremental and require a long haul committment that may take a generation or more. And stop beating down those who don't subscribe to your unrealistic view. Like it or not, you have the political system that is, not necessarily what you personally want it to be.
Johnny2Bad @ 122:
Saw it. It offers no solutions. It only points out all of the problems, which most of us on this blog are already aware of.
bmw 528 @ 123:
Re: Carter. He lost because that was the perception Amaricans had of him. I admire him no end.
But to your main points: "...radical makeover...". No. Simply eturn to basic principles of shared government. Checks and balances. But hey...Its all going to come tumbling down here in a couple of years. We simply can't sustain this credit/consumer/military based economy any longer.
Second: I understand the realities involved. But to suggest the these "increments" will begin with the election of Barrack Obama is just not supported by his policy position, his votes or his history. It is based on one thing. Hope. And hope as we all know...is not a plan. Obama is simply the next juggler in chief. Hired to keep all the balls in the air. He'll fail because we have failed ourselves by allowing it to happen.
its a very bad idea thinking that it could take a generation to undo all the faschisim thats been done to this country, we dont have the time for small incriments , were running out of time , money , humanity , its now or never , time to hold thoes who take our tax dollars accountable!, and that means obama or mccain, its not so far from where your liveing now to that bridge you could be liveing under, you know the one on that highway they sold to hungary!
dennis @ 117:
There have been several diaries on D-Kos of late that link to conservative blogs that have been advising their memberships to "visit" D-Kos, C&L and post here.
The most damn article though is McCain's own website and story that C&L ran on it...
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/26/mccain-gets-the-internet-thing-...
rekroc @ 124:
You missed the point. You reacted just like the congressmembers that questioned him. "What do we do?" "Tell us Professor". So ok, if we're all aware of the problems than why do most here think Obama is the solution?
Odd thinking.
bmw 528 @ 123:
Absolutely. The Doomsday Cultists flooding this site are really no better than spoiled children screaming and crying because they're not getting exactly what they want, when they want it, so they've decided they're going to run away.
@Meet the New Boss
It's the incessant complaining about the democratic candidates that's whining. Biden is not perfect (no Democrat is), but policywise he's about 95% perfect. And after the first half of this year I'm just fed up with debating the remaining 5%.
In case you haven't noticed there's the real threat of four more years of the worst government this country ever had. I've visited some Puma websites, lately. And I was just freaked out (for the record, I supported Hillary in the primaries). So coming here and seeing the same mindless bitching about the democratic ticket I just freaked out again.
McCain is within reach of passing by Obama - and your concern is what Biden said in 1998?? Are you nuts?
So, this is what I call whining. Maybe you're only unhappy with Biden, maybe you have been content with everything all along, maybe I'm unfair to you. In that case: sorry, pal.
But this is just how I felt when I saw all these astonishingly negative comments on a website that should know better.
i dont know maby the doomsday cultists are just realists and others are just settelers for anything , such as im going to wake up every morning thinking what i can do for you, seems like i heard george w bush saying that bull dooky!
James @ 88:
I highly doubt BIDEN is against net neutrality. In fact, I'd be more willing to believe he drinks the blood of kttens. NO Democrat that I know of would ever vote to destroy the internet....it would career suicide. And besides, BIDEN is more of a liberal and a populist than OBAMA. Ne's also correctly refers to a woman's so-called "right to choose" as a woman's "constitutional right to privacy."
On second thoughts, where does Lieberman stand on net neutrality? I wouldn't at all surprised if he was against it.
Rasputin @ 127:
I know about the McCain points thing, Raspy, but I honestly hadn't seen other sites encouraging that. And I thought Kos required sign-up, with any conservative posts that might've slipped through easily banned. I'm not surprised the newbies here accuse me of that, but I am that you, one of the fewer and fewer old-timers from 2-3 years ago would. I remember tangling with you two years ago about whether or not Bush lied to get us into war, and you came up with a doozie of his that was pretty hard to refute, even for me.
McCain was a distant longshot then; not many even thought he'd throw his hat in the ring. But if you think I'm doing the McCain points thing, I tell you what, I'll donate $100 to your favorite charity or cause if you can find one post of mine that was C&P'd from a McCain website and I'll swear right here and now never to bother you or anyone here again. I'm good for the c-note and you'll have this post to shove in my face if you find one and I don't comply.
Johnny2Bad @ 128:
Well, I think you're missing the point. I don't need to watch some video of a professor/retired colonel to know what's wrong with this country. I already knew all of that stuff. Repeatedly pointing out the problems without having any ideas for a solution is nothing but whining. Encouraging others to just give up because we can't immediately tear the system down and build it back up nice 'n perfect is actually the OPPOSITE of a solution.
Bacevich is an admitted conservative. He was a Bush enabler. He voted Republican his entire life and watched our country go down the toilet. Now he wants to argue that he decided to give the other side a whirl, voting for all Democrats in the 2006 mid-terms (you know, just TWO YEARS AGO when the Democrats gained a small majority in the House and, thanks to Lieberman, no real advantage in the Senate) but they've let him down, so now BOTH parties suck equally.
Sorry, but this Bacevich guy is just oozing with concern-troll disingenuousness.
j2bad@125
Thanks for the clarification, and glad to hear that you admire Carter. Hope is not a plan but is the first step in incrementally to where we need to be. Continuing to bash Obama over and over because he doesn't represent your point of view is not a plan for success either. Personally, I wish I could sweep away eight years of Neocon incompetence overnight but it's gonna take a whole lot longer than that and involve compromises. You may not want Obama as your agent of change, but most likely you will get him. In that respect, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Frankly, I don't know what you would suggest is a better realistic alternative that what we have now. Mc Cain? Nader? Paul? Get real.
PorridgeGun @ 132:
Does it matter what Biden's stance is on Net neutrality since Obama would be the President?
Since you asked...
Lieberman Opts for Net Neutrality Sell-Out
http://www.freepress.net/news/18400
McCain Opposes Net Neutrality
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/3/224720.shtml
Obama Promises To Reinstate Net Neutrality During First Year In Office
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/29/obama-promises-to-reinsta_n_703...
Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg, has a front-row seat at the convention with the Delaware delegates. The Rove machine is afraid of Joe Biden and must hide behind Hillary.
I'll get a good look at Michael Berg on TV. I'm watching the convention coverage on Al-Jazeera English. Fox News can suck an egg.
Just to reiterate, I love this site. I've turned many people onto it. I just said I'll leave the comment section be because my brain starts to hurt from some of the comments.
I too have issues with Biden (verbal diareha, credit card companies in Willmington, etc.), but I understand that Biden has qualities that can help. I agree with Rasputin @ 108 that Biden is a great attack dog. I've heard many in the liberal community comment on how bad the "message discipline" is for the Democrats on Sunday morning shows or basically any appearance on television. I believe Biden can set the message for the week and help to keep the rest of the party on that message.
Another thing I find refreshing is his Iraq War stance. Yes, he voted for the war. However, he has since proclaimed it to be a mistake and has worked diligently to raise accountability of contractors and the other goings-on of that insanse war. I guess there's a case to be made that he didn't help to stop financing the war, but I think that is indicative of the whole of the Democratic Party.
The point that I'm laborisly trying to get to and from my original post @ 96 is to say that you should have faith in Obama. His pick was vetted to fit his strategy. How can you go from loving Obama one day and then say you will sit on your hands on Election Day? Even more puzzling is how can you rant and rave about the insane (and I think insane is putting it lightly) policies of the current administration and even consider voting for McCain? Because of Biden? Really?
You who are considering this need to understand the reality and listen well and think clearly.
dennis @ 133:
I don't think it would surprise anyone here to learn that you spew right-wing talking points gratis.
Brian@ 139
Nice job. We would all do well to keep focused on our country's needs in a big picture way. Other centered people diligently working to make a positive difference will prevail in time. It may not be in the timeframe you like, but the wheels of justice turn slowly---but finely. And no political system or candidate is perfect, just as perfection is not a human attribute.
dennis @ 133:
Tell ya what Dennis...
You keep the C-note and just tell me why you think that McCain would be good for business?
As to Mccain and his economic plan and business... no doubt he is pro-corporate interests, but his economic policies are the same as Bush's and you can see the result... to your liking???
McCain's primary economic adviser is none other than "Enron" Phil Gramm, the guy who deregulated the energy markets and allowed the Enron debacle to happen while his wife was on the board of Enron and he got over a million dollars in fund from them.
This is the same Phil Gramm who also led the charge for deregulation the banking industry to allow them to be both savings banks and mortgage brokerages, as well as issue securities... all of which opened the door to the "subprime mortgage" disaster and the current spate of bank failures.
This also has produced "the credit crunch" and now even viable businesses can't get the necessary "operating lines of credit" to survive. I know... I've got three friends who are CEO's who are crying the blues to me on a daily basis over this.
The same Phil Gramm who deregulated the Commodities Futures market that has allowed speculation on oil futures that have threatened the economies of not only the US, but global economies. Did you enjoy the $4 a gallon gas prices?
McCain's tax policies are the same as Bush's and he would continue you with the Bush tax cuts and his "trickle down" theory... did you ever hear the phrase "jobless recovery"? We have only had one in the history of the US and it was the result of Bush's policies that McCain continues to support!
Yes indeed... McCain good for business??? Corporate interests and Wall Street... yes, but real businesses with employees making products... not a chance!
Excuse me... I forgot we are just a nation of "whiners"
Johnny2Bad @ 128:
This argument is similar to that whole "properly inflating your tires = Obama's energy policy" nonsense.
Obama isn't the solution. He's just a small part of it, because, if nothing else, he's going to be better than a McBush third term. Sorry if that's not earth-shattering enough for you. There is no magical solution that will make everything all better; there's simply a slow, constant progression in the proper direction, and that takes effort and involvement. Giving up solves nothing.
You gotta love this guy. He's so clean and articulate. Hercules! Hercules!
Rasputin @ 142:
It'd be OT, Raspy. Meet me on the Open Thread sometime and I'll set you straight, I promise. Not now though, I'm in the middle of a trade problem from taking my eye off the ball here at work- cost me a lot more than a c-note. But in general, I've stated McCain has to get someone good for business in his VP pick. That, and I don't think Gramm will be his Treasury Secretary.
frenchfries @ 130:
Biden is 95% perfect? Are you sure you don't want to go back and edit that? I'm sure it was typed in the heat of the moment.
Consider this: On the key issues - the Iraq War, the economy, SCOTUS, and the Constitution - Biden has been 95% bad. His record is not hard to track, you can Google it and decide for yourself.
On the other hand, if your a Clinton / DLC Centrist then the only thing you have to be unhappy about is that Hillary doesn't get to lead the show she and Bill have worked so hard to produce. And for that you can blame her campaign managers for getting out-marketed by a much better marketing team. Coke beat Pepsi in the marketplace of image, since we'll all admit that Obama and Clinton are peas in a pod on almost every issue.
My point is this: the Democratic Party is offering up "Change you can believe in" then turning right around and playing the politics of triangulation to perfection, in which everything winds up being pretty much what you'd expect from people who depend on the billions of dollars of lobbyist and corporate largesse to keep themselves in power.
I come from perhaps the most progressive congressional district in the country, and our representative voted against the Iraq war and is progressive on damn near every issue there is. But she is in a tiny minority in the Democratic Party and the Party leadership is reminding progressives again that our services are no longer required now that they've got they've concluded the latest round of kabuki political theater.
To close, I'm not pessimistic about the country or the future. I truly believe that the United States needs to be dismantled for the good of the world. We are not the "city on the hill" or the "shining light" and the rest of the world doesn't consist of Americans trapped inside foreigners' bodies yearning for us to liberate them. What is troubling about this site is that so many people are willing to give the Democratic Party a free pass when they have done nothing whatsoever to deserve it, and are as guilty as the GOP for the current assault on civil liberties and the destruction of the economy. It has all taken place on their watch and they ought to have their feet held to the fire.
but let’s give some c&l love up for bill richardson — quietly out and about, speaking like an adult to people who listen like adults on behalf of obama.
Hey, he was my choice from the beginning. :-)
rekroc @ 143:
There are substantial differences between Obama and Mccain's Energy plans!
First... McCain has proposed building 45 new Nuclear Plants...
At an average costs of $8.5 Billion per power plant his proposed 45 new nuclear power plants would cost about $380+ Billion dollars.
That would leave little for funding alternative fuels sources, not to mention that these plants are usually built with Federal and State tax dollars... yet he says he won't raise taxes!
So where does he propose getting this kind of revenue stream from... more "borrow and spend" national debt spiking borrowing?
Worse yet...
1. Those plants take on average 7 to ten years to build so not one watt of power for a decade.
2. He doesn't say which lucky state gets the waste storage site.
3. The $380+ Billion doesn't account for cost over runs, which these plants are prone to big ones, nor security for protecting these sites from terrorist attacks, nor the decommissioning costs after they have finished their 40 average life span.
Secondly... McCain is proposing Immediate off-shore drilling
The US has only an estimated 2% to 3% of the world's oil reserves but that not with standing... it would take an estimated ten years to see the first drop of oil!
Who says so??? The Energy Information Administration of the US government... that's who!
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/methodology.html
So McCain's proposals would NOT add one drop of oil or one watt of power from a nuclear reactor for ten years!
By Comparison... the average time to build an alternative wind farm... is 18 months.
Obama also has stated his willingness to use off-shore drilling and nuclear power as part of his plan... the difference is they are the last resort not the first!
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy
Even Bush blathers on about alternative fuels and wind and solar... but he never allocated real financial support for these energy sources.
And McCain? The Sierra Club compiled his votes and a D-Kos blogger posted them and Video of McCain telling outright lies:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/18/14622/9065
Johnny2Bad @ 114:
Obama’s not going to change anything. He’s running to replace the current idiot president with those outrageous executive powers that congress handed Bush firmly in place.
Hint 2: Its us. We have to tear down the big money political system first. Then figure out who’ll be our voice. it just won’t work the other way around.
Hmmm. That sounds extremely vague. Can you fill us in on some of the details?
---------------
See the links at my post #67 for more on Andrew Bacevich.
Johnny2Bad @ 120
I'll do that. Thanks.
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