Harry and Louise Return
By SilentPatriot Thursday Aug 28, 2008 4:45pmBack in 1993 when Bill and Hillary Clinton were trying to achieve real health care reform in this country, an industry-lobbyist group called the Health Insurance Association of America ran a highly successful ad called "Harry and Louise" which featured a white middle-class couple sitting at the kitchen table spewing Republican talking points and talking about the evils of universal health care. The ad was so successful that it's widely considered to be the main reason President Clinton's plan failed.
But now Harry and Louise are back with a new message. With national health care as one of the most important issues in the election, and with Republicans poised to distort the debate once again, a number of groups have come together with a pre-buttal ad featuring the original actors that demands health care be made a top national priority. The ad will run throughout the RNC.
Awesome. You can read more here.
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Look at it this way, McCain=No Insurance. But don't worry about McCain, he gets the best money can buy, courtsey of us, the taxpayers.
It seems like an effective pre-buttal, co-opting the theme before it's used against them.
I wanted to indicate again that Sarah Palin isnt Hillary Clinton.
Hillary Clinton fought hard throughout her primary season, pushing for universal health care reform.
Sarah Palin describes herself as a "conservative republican" who believes in the "power of the free market." Someone should stop and asking Gov. Palin why the free market should decide who lives and dies in one of the richest nations in the world?
There are important issue differences between these two women, don't let McCain put up her as a red herring.
Learn the differences, and vote smart.
http://www.SarahPalinISNTHillaryClinton.com
Saw this last night. pretty god, but didn't realize it was the same actors from the original.
Kudos to whomever thought this up. Nice touch.
I keep trying to email this NEWS TIP to crooksandliars but it gets bounced back . . .
Obama campaigner KNIFED IN THE FACE . . . . here in my beloved San Francisco! GOP intellectual and spiritual constipation is pandemic and this incident is a harsh reality check that rednecks are lurking in even in our climes!
Amazing how the base voting GOP "protecting/spreading democracy" folk . . .somehow gets lost on those who think the nation requires ONE PARTY RULE making democracy they wave flags for . . . MOOT.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/29/BAJO12KNGU.DTL
sigh, shall this nation ever lose it's Barbaric status and join mankind's thousands of years of history wherein women and people of color ruled nations. Heaven's forbid we ever emulate civilized societies!
i encourage people to read and/or listen to this interview with jonathan oberlander he just had a report published in the NE journal of Medicine aug2008. the mccain and obama healthcare plans. you must understand the diferences so we can fight the nonsense 'social medicine'
or government program it's NOT true.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93975730
Sarah Palin is a MAN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5-ss-HPL_o
Actually, the HIAA which sponsored the original ad was made up of all the insurers & HMO's excluded from Hillary Clinton's "managed care" plan to give all of U.S. health care to the top 5 insurers & HMO's.
Thus, the Hillary Clinton plan set the super-big insurers & HMO's against the big & medium insurers & HMO's, and all for very little benefit either for us citizens or for Congress to fight for.
It was the plan which made itself vulnerable -- not just the advertisements.
They should have had the actors say something to the effect of "we really blew it in 1993 when we had our chance, now look at the health care costs, I guess Clinton was right back then..."
average family healthcare policy now cost $13,000.00 yr.
Those actors are flip-floppers!
:p
hillary clinton made a good point during her campaign.
people that are paying for healthcare that live in a demographic where there are people receiving healthcare but unable/don't pay increase the cost of the paying pool.
essentially she said this is a tax. on average this amounts
to about $600.00 extra cost.yes all pools absorb this extra cost but some areas/demographics are taking on more than others.
Y'know, when McCain was a POW, he didn't have a kitchen table to sit at and discuss healthcare.
Harry and Louise... I remember those two from 93... They actually have the nerve to show up again?? WOW! As I recall and as it turns out, Harry was a twit and Louise was a bitch and together they were a pair of IDIOTS! Or maybe I got it all wrong, and this cratoring private industry manipulated health care trainwreck is EXACTLY what our plucky pair mentioned above thinks is just gang busters perfect... Someone want to give me shit for involking the 'b' word as regards Harry's other half.. .Fine, but don't lose sight of what these two shills and their latest propaganda is really all about.. Excuse me please now, I gotta check this commerical out now, just so I spit at my computer screen.... JD
Those actors are flip-floppers!
:p
Well said CatAtomic!
C&L, thanks for trying to bring us all pay to the important issues of this campaign.
constituent @ 10:
But McSame will give you a "tax credit" of $5,000.
Likely result?
Average family healthcare policy will cost up to $13,000.00 + 5,000 / yr.
SPiHC @ 2:
Hillary's health platform was to force everyone to buy insurance and penalize everyone who didn't. That's not health care, it's a windfall for the insurance companies that are the primary cause of the problem. Hillary is OWNED by the health care lobby - and that's just the tip of the Hillary iceberg. She is as dirty as they come.
How Hillary Won Over the Health-Care Industry
BobbyG @ 17:
And if you don't make enough to pay taxes (40% of American citizens), which certainly means you don't make enough to pay for health insurance, you are on your own.
Frankly, the choice we're being offered here is between More of the McSame's status quo and Obama's welfare scheme for insurance companies. The idea that this is somehow 'transitional' and that a single payer plan is 'politically impossible' has never sat well with me.
The problem as I see it is that the dialogue is constantly framed by status quo advocates who use a number of easily refutable straw men to scare people. Not the least of which is the completely bogus idea that this is an either/or proposition, that we either have 'free market solution's or 'socialized medicine.' This is nonsense. While it's true that the defining characteristic of how everyone else does it is the absolute exclusion of private insurance companies from the delivery of primary care (we are the only industrialized nation that does this) everyone else has their own brand of public/private systems.
1. If 'the government' runs health care, it'll function like the DMV or the Post Office.
This is bullshit. With the exception of the British National Health Service (where doctors are government employees) the providers are private, just like here. 'The government' doesn't 'run' health care. It pays for it.
2. There'll be long waiting lists.
In my neck of the US of A, there already are, not to mention that healthcare in America is already effectively 'rationed' by income. The more money you have, the better your access. it's true that in Canada (where I lived for 30 years) the 'average' wait for something like hip replacement can be months. But that's elective surgery. Emergency procedures are 'rationed' by need. If you're dying, you go to the front of the line.
3. Taxes will go up.
Sure they will. But costs (and your coverage premiums) will go down. When I left Canada 5 years ago, I paid $54 a month. No deductables, no co-pays (Canadians don't know the meaning of these things). And any Canadian politician who set up a system where people could be denied treament for any reason would be turfed out at the next opportunity.
The reason we'll never have universal health care is that these and other tropes are left unchallenged. Conservative pundits repeat them all the time, and nobody says boo. Bullshit needs to be immediately pounded back into the ground whenever it appears.
For instance, one of the most compelling arguments against the way we manage health care (and for the way others do it) is that absolutely no one is clamoring to adopt our system. In fact, in Canada, accusing one's political opponent of wanting to introduce "American style healthcare" is considered a dastardly smear.
constituent @ 6:
We should have socialized medicine. In fact we are the ONLY industrialized nation that does not, and all of the others work better and cost less.
Hurrruph... OK, saw the vids.. How cute, how touching.. How FUCKING PHONY!!!!
Ain't buyin... These two actors are protraying republican stooges... The fact is a lot of people don't like her and she was villified by the repubs for her original attempts back in 93... But Hillary was essentially correct on this issue in 93.. We can haggle and iron out details, but basically universal health care is the only way to go for a humane honorable society to deal with the health care needs of its citizenry... Other nations know this already and have implemented it.. Hell our houses of congress know this.. That's why they have it for themselves..... funny thing that..huh...JD
obama's plan is NOT really government run insurance.
it's NOT required. if your happy with your insurance you can keep it. if you want insurance and you have pre-existing condition you won't be turned down by obama's
plan obama's plan will compete with private plans. it will be similar to medicare. it will open up congressional plan to large pool bringing down cost.
This is America.
Nobody remembers 1993.
Shit, nobody remembers 2007, when the Mocha Hope promised to filibuster any FISA bill that contained immunity for the telcoms.
The irony's fine for those of us who paid and still pay attention.
The other 99.5% of the population does not give a crap...
Great that these two actors finally see the light, but I hope they take whatever they earned and donate it to the local charity hospital, and then some.
woody, tokin librul @ 24:
what's with the 'mocha hope'........wow...is that really
necessary...seriously
NY Times poll from April 4
"Regardless of how you intend to vote for president in 2008, how confident are you in CANDIDATE's ability to make the right decisions about health care - (alternatives)"
Candidate, Very Confident - Somewhat Confident, Not too confident, Not at all confident, Don't know/didn't answer
McCain 11 39 25 19 5
Obama 17 44 19 16 4
Hillary 27 34 16 22 2
-- McCain would do well not to push this issue.. And reviving the 90's just won't work. Healthcare was front and center in Hillary's campaign. It was one of her big draws. The failure of 1994 didn't hurt her. Rather, it'd seem the rest of the country has come around.
It's not going to work.
I don't see any reason why I shouldn't have exactly the same healthcare as McCain or Obama or Clinton or anyone else who has spent their life sucking at the public tit. These people are public servants, and we, the people, their employers, pay for their health care. They like to call it socialized medicine, but that is exactly what they are getting. Why can't I have it too?!?!?
woody, tokin librul @ 24:
Plenty of folks seem to remember, by the amount of whining that goes on about it. Seriously, I was all against it but: Get over it already!
What if telco immunity was tacked onto a bill that would create universal health-care, end the war in Iraq and impeach Bush. Would you still oppose it?
No? Then it's just a damn matter of how good the bill needs to be before you're willing to compromise. So quit acting so high-and-mighty about it.
Besides, there were 66 votes against striking the immunity, you only need 60 of those to break a filibuster.
Blue Buddha @ 13:
Oh yes he did, he had a wife and a family, who stuck by him until he returned, whereupon he dumped them.
NE journal of medicine aug.2008
How the McCain plan would affect costs and coverage is uncertain. Nobody knows how effective repealing the tax exclusion would be in controlling costs, but if it turns out not to be a magic bullet, the plan lacks other mechanisms for reliably slowing spending. Prevention, better care for chronic conditions, and enhanced competition represent aspirations rather than concrete policies for controlling costs.
In addition, most uninsured Americans would probably remain uninsured under the McCain plan. Given the high price of health insurance, even with the new tax credits, many lower-income people would still not be able to afford coverage. And if the credits are not indexed to the rate of growth in health care spending, that affordability gap would grow over time (as would the number of Americans who would pay higher taxes for employer-sponsored health insurance). Indeed, with the proposed credits, many Americans could afford only high-deductible insurance policies. The McCain plan could consequently trigger a move from comprehensive insurance toward thinner coverage policies that shift costs onto sicker patients. Moreover, some employers, particularly smaller businesses, might stop offering insurance if the tax benefits of employer-sponsored insurance were eliminated. As a result, some currently insured workers could lose coverage.
Perhaps the most serious problem with McCain's plan is its reliance on the individual insurance market. Individual insurance policies are administratively expensive, typically involve medical underwriting so that sick persons and those with preexisting conditions are charged higher premiums (premiums also increase with age) or are denied coverage altogether, and generally offer less comprehensive benefits than employer-sponsored insurance.2
Noah @ 18:
Universal Health Care, not Universal Health Insurance.
Single payer health care.
O/T, New from the unauthorized McSame store:
http://www.bgladd.com/McSameStore/GOPdeadliestcatch.jpg
Pay it forward.
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 32:
kind of like i'm forced to buy auto ins. and yes i understand the difference....but there are many who
don't buy the auto ins. making my rates go up
Well, this ought to be an easy one to rebut! All you have to do is call them LIARS if/when they are, and ask of McCain's Health Plan: "Where's The Beef?"....remember that ad?
Also, Dems (who are always on the defensive), where's the biting Ad on social security privatization? Lots of "beef" to cook up there. Is there one? If not, why not?
Harry lost his healthcare after he quit his job to join a dot-com startup that planned to "revolutionize the way people think about buying tube socks."
Louise did a subprime cashout re-fi on the advice of an accountant/freelance pharmaceutical distributor working for Arthur Andersen and invested the proceeds in Enron stock.
open up the congressional plan to those who want in ...
i'll bet many. large pool lower rates...put pressure on other companies to become more competitive rate wise.
this will encourage jobs/business/commerce in the u.s.
companies here have to compete with companies/workforce that has nationalized healthcare.
of course GM can manufacture an auto cheaper in russia they have nationalized healthcare. the corporations have an advantage. they are trying to do it in u.s. some industries encourage people to come here
offer low wages and public service health care....tax payers cover the tab. we are taxed more than we know
it's just called fee(s) and increased costs.
happy birthday mccain. who has been collecting social
security since 65....he receives a monthly payment of
$1,930.00 and congressional government healthcare.
JasonS @ 37:
I always like it when a story has an epilog. This one is priceless-- I guess that's why Harry and Louise were willing to take this job.
Ads like this are profoundly stupid. How can you have bipartisan solutions when the sides don't even agree on a definition of the problem? In this ad the actors say that the new president should simply bring all the decision makers to the table and "get it done." Well, what's IT? To me health care reform means making sure that all Americans have health insurance have regular access to preventive medicine. To John McCain health care reform means enabling providers to make even higher profits. Where's the solution there? Clearly, there has to be a winner and a loser -- there's no win-win here, no matter what Harry and Louise say.
Did anyone else notice the subtle "Sound Effects of Despair"? Seriously, what's with the hidden, almost subliminal anxious-making soundtrack?
constituent @ 34:
Comparing health care with auto insurance is not valid.
Driving is a privilege, living is a right.
The only way that insurance companies should be involved in health care is the same way they are involved with medicare.
With a single payer, costs are controlled. Very effectively and efficiently.
There is no free lunch, everyone has care, everyone pays the taxes that support the system. In a progressive manner.
The net cost of the system is reduced. Who loses? The Fat Cats who own the system, because a single payer fights their greed.
Those poor poor fat cats. I will be weeping crocodile tears, by the buckets.
FUCK Harry and Louise in the ear! Fuck 'em in the other ear! GO AWAY!!!!!!!!
Yay! Lets force the workers of America to gift even more money to Big Pharma! I mean, its for the children, right? America's children need their mercury-laced vaccines!! Pay up, laborer! The Socialist State needs your money!!
That 'Harry and Louise' advert is as relevant today regarding the proposed fake universal health care schemes we will be offered, as then.
True UHC or a NHS system doesnt offer same ol same ol dressed up in fancy new clothes, it is free at point of service and paid for through taxation of various types.
A person doesnt pay income tax, they dont pay the NI period. And everybody is covered.
Whats proposed by the various peoples including Clinton, Obama etc is forced health insurance not matter whether people can afford the weekkly/monthly premiums, this is fine and dandy for the health insurance companies, their profits will go through the roof with all the extra millions forced at the point of a federal crime to purchase.
True UHC NHS is free at point of service, and not by expensive policys, every other industrial country does the NHS system, I wonder why...
Noah @ 18:
Which is why she was very unpalatable for the more progressive liberal Dem.
Every point you make is valid and true, HRC paid puppet of big health.
An European NHS system is the cheaper, logical, humane way to go.
"Bring all sides to the table"
F**K YOU Louise. There's only one side, and that's us. The insurance companies simply do not even get a seat at the table. That's the weakness of even the best of the Dems and illustrates how they are beholden to the corporations.
Time has proved that the Democrats had the right idea over a decade ago. Now those who thought that Hillary and Bill were wrong want that fundimentalist forgiveness. How many did those that wanted to keep the status (profit for the health industry) pro let die for their own profit.
The ad was so successful that it’s widely considered to be the main reason President Clinton’s plan failed.
Haha, that's a good one...
I think Bill Clinton was a great president and I voted for him twice, but he really screwed the pooch on his healthcare plan. It was simply a horrible plan. That's why it failed.
You're going to hear the refckyoucans say, "Why should I pay for someone else?" and I don't want to pay for someone else," and until we dems can boil an arguement down to a sound bite, THEY WIN. Selfishness wins.
Was it Barack who said,"Bush's republican ownership society means, 'You're on your own'"?
If the gangsters from the health insurance and drug companies want to run Harry and Louise ads, I suggest that Sicko be given an airing on cable and broadcast TV, plus another run in the theaters. That ought to knock the wind out of their sails, but good.
Greetings from a Canadian. Love the "pre-buttal" ad. I hope that this time Americans get serious about healthcare. I saw the movie Sicko and it made me appreciate Canadian Medicare a whole lot more. I can't believe the stuff American citizens put up with. As for the argument that taxes would go up if America got universal healthcare, that's bogus. You either pay thousands to private insurance companies who will try to screw you out of your benefits when you need them, or you pay a bit more in taxes for a system that will take care of you.
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