Mort Zuckerman: "We still don't know where the bottom is"
By Steve Hynd Sunday Sep 07, 2008 5:00pm
Shorter Mort Zuckerman: "Oh boy, we're all screwed".
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Financial expert Zuckerman appeared on Morning Joe to talk about the Federal bailout of Fannie and Freddie Mac - a move that he estimates will cost the taxpayer upwards of $500 billion added to an already record federal debt. The panicked looks on the faces of the hosts as he laid out just how bad it could be were the most vocal commentary though. Zuckerman says that Fannie and Freddie are "too big to fail" because their paper is held by financial institutions worldwide and if they fell then the world economy would plummet like a stone in a "systemic crisis".
But he also says that "this is not the end of the real problem", which is $5 trillion plus in mortgage loans with record foreclosures and falling house prices. In other words, America's piggy bank is broken. Zuckerman says that no-one should think the bailout is the end of the story: "this problem is still not measurable, we still don't know where the bottom is," and that the only way out in the long term is to "force savings upon the American people, and that's called taxes."
We're already seeing the immediate results of the the credit crunch. For instance the Highway Trust fund, which pays for infrastructure repairs and improvements, is almost broke. It's funded by the gas taxes it's tapped out. That has a knock-on in the ability of the federal government to provide construction contracts to businesses and construction jobs to those unemployed, in a time of rising unemployment. The massive amount of money that is going into financial bailouts could have been going to such projects instead, which would have provided some buffering against recession.
It's possible that the Bush administration will ask Congress to give money to the Highway Fund anyway - and it probably should - but yet again someone has to pay the bill eventually for deficit spending and that someone will be you and your grandchildren. Ditto the huge bills for Iraq, massive homeland security and defense spending, the trade deficit and so much else we can thank the profligate Bush administration and Republicans in Congress for. They have, as a solid group, opposed any kind of financial regulation legislation. For Republicans, it's a free market only until John McCain's "middle class" with over $5 million in the bank are hurting, then its socialism for the financial markets all around.
Just remember, though, that the economy does better with Democrats in the White House and Congress and that in this election, while John McCain cares most about personas, the Democratic convention revealed that Democrats care most about the economy.
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OT but MSNBC has demoted KO, for attacking them over airing the 9/11 video at the RNC. They're replacing him with none other than conservative ass kisser Gregory. Time to turn the channel.
i hope the administration regrets their aversion to regulation. they gave profits to some businesses but they screwed the entire country.
there's over 5 TRILLION $$$$$$ of vulnerable paper in the Freddie/Fannie clusterfuck. 500 BILLION doesn't put a bandaid on the problem.
This is mostly the fault of Mr. Andrea Mitchell and the Clenis, who refused to veto, and even promoted proudly the "modernization" of the Glass-Steagall Act...
Oh Billy @ 1:
agree. gregory is from the elite barbecue media. cnn is better. even chuck todd's credibility is suspect. they want to keep their access to mccain.
Why does he insist on talking about the issues -- didn't he get the memo that this election isn't about the issues.
You first argue that the bailout is bad because of how much it adds to the national debt by saying it is "a move that he estimates will cost the taxpayer upwards of $500 billion added to an already record federal debt."
But then, as with the war in Iraq, you say we could be using the money here at home by saying "the massive amount of money that is going into financial bailouts could have been going to such projects instead."
If you are going to criticize the bailout for increasing our debt, anything else you do with the money would be susceptible to the same criticism. This argument always drove me nuts with the war on Iraq. We don't have the money to begin with, so we shouldn't be spending it.
Oh Billy @ 1:
There is no end of irony in the fact that thepeople who were mostly responsible for the 9/11 catastrophe were the ones who brought it back as a campaign symbol...
Mort Zuckerman's scary figure is far more realistic than the one I heard this weekend. When I first heard that these bailouts might cost the American taxpayers about 100 billion dollars, I was trying to figure out how that could be. With lots of California homes have mortages in excess of one million dollars, that would mean that you are talking about 100,000 to 200,000 foreclosures throughout then entire country. Granted, there are lots of places where defaulted loan have smaller balances, but there's going to be lots and lots of homes.
Thank, you, Phil Gramm, for loosening those banking rules so that all these lenders could make the risky loans and we, the taxpayers, could bail them out.
My friends, remember this one when you go into the voting booth and look at Phil's good friend, John McCain's name. After all, this is one of his trusted financial advisors.
If there were ANY justice in the world, Alan Greenspan would lose his house and die of exposure sleeping in a cardboard box under a bridge...
The borrow and spend Republicans aided and abetted by the borrow and spend Democrats, dual wings of the US War Party, in order to fund the largely unnecessary but hugely profitable 'war on terror' have borrowed us into a tank.
Meanwhile they deregulated every thing in sight AND cut taxes.
Greed and stupidity in the unregulated marketplace has led to same place it always does. The sh!thouse.
At some point our ability to bail ourselves out is going to end.
'The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.'
John Kenneth Galbraith
The bailouts of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae should--and could easily--be linked to another bailout: the S & L debacle, brought to you by the Keating 5. This would register in the minds of voters!
Obama's campaign needs serious ads going up every damn day. They've got the money; they need to go for it!
brother, can you spare a dime?
No matter what happens you will hear no republican take the blame. They have a way of talking responsibility but they ain't shit when it comes to accepting responsibility they will just tell another lie and say elect me i can fix things.
john bush does it everyday along with his wonderful VP pick pailchenny.
Funny the trolls stay away from the issues threads.
Wonder how much bush and dick lost in the stockmarket?
Well, at least someone has the courtesy to let us know how badly we are being screwed!!
Holy shit.
GOP -- an conspiracy of the greedy to hoodwink the stupid.
Brian @ 6:
Oh, but that's fiscal conservatism. Republicans don't want to hear about fisc...oh...wait...sorry.
I swear to god, Progressives could manage the books in this country much better than Republicans. It's home finance 101, just like they teach you in high school: if you don't have it, don't spend it. Unfortunately, we've been encouraged to "just go shopping" by our nitwit elected officials (because "it's morning in America") and we've forgotten how to do what's in our own best interest: live within our means. No one wants to pay any taxes--but we all want expanded services.
A major tenet of Howard Dean's campaign in '04 was "pay as you go; if you spend, you will owe." No one went for that. Not sunny enough.
woody, tokin librul @ 9:
Instead of a veteran with a traumatic brain injury or PTSD. It makes me sick.
Marvin @ 14:
If it's not about arugula lettuce or foot tapping under a bathroom stall, their attention spans quickly fail.
Oh Billy @ 1:
I don't have any problem with recognizing that KO and Tweety went a bit over the line (as much as I liked it) and that someone else would be assigned, but Gregory? He's like the like a big ol' slobbery, stupid dog. As incompetent as the Republican party. David, setting up for big pay-off? Sure it would be nice to wealthy, and who needs a soul anyway?
So, its shapin up to be A-nother public sector bailout for a private sector fuckup... Yet, repubs don't want to regulate the financials and housing industries, nor will they relent on their blocking tax increases on the top 1 percent of wage earners or any other tax increases because... Well hell, their story is they don't want to burden tax payers.... They just want us all to have more of 'our' money to spend ourselves... And they don't want to burden big bid-ness with more regulation and oversite and beurocratic hoops etc.. Noooo, their story is the private sector and that magic little hand(job) of the free markets will cure all, protect all.... Uh-huh.....
Hello...I just said 'Public sector bailout of another private sector fuckup'. right along the lines of the Keating Savings and Loan fiasco only much bigger and even costlier.. So who the hell does anyone thing is being stuck bearing THAT burden??? The thread leadin is correct, ya just can't 'print money' your way out of this mess...Real wealth is being burned up. So much for being able to keep more of 'our' money to decide for ourselves how to spend it....Cee-rist,what kind of smoke is being blown up my ass this time??!! And I don't even own a home and probably never will now! There is some kind of a fundamental disconnect with the repub party as well as some financial experts on all this shit...... Ya know, I ain't no math whiz but I think personally, if financial big-shots or day tradin type speculators want to play Vegas style odds on some get rich scheme, then it ought to be their goddamned asses and wealth on the line to pick up the pieces, not me or my piddly little bit of sweat equity wealth dammit!! JD
woody, tokin librul @ 9:
Let's not just limit it to Greenspan. I've long advocated the junta now ruling the US be stripped of its wealth and let those who don't go to jail end up on the street too. Families too. Those smiling Stepford Wives and their outfits that cost anywhere from a couple thousand to over a couple hundred thousand. Let them live in old used cars. A lot of women do.
Kathy in St. louis @ 8:
Quit whining! Its just a mental bailout.
Our fandamentals (and fundamentalisits) is still strong. If we could just have another round of tax cuts for millionaires, then we would have plenty of money to pay the bills.
Brian @6,
If you are going to criticize the bailout for increasing our debt, anything else you do with the money would be susceptible to the same criticism. This argument always drove me nuts with the war on Iraq. We don’t have the money to begin with, so we shouldn’t be spending it.
I'm well aware of the contradiction, but I'd argue that deficit spending - if it must be done at all - is best done to create blue-collar jobs and thus inject money into the economy from the bottom up, not the top down. That way, there will still be a recession - that's unavoidable now - but its effects will be softened. Unfortunately, the $1.5 trillion cost in real terms of the Iraq misadventure has made such choices unpleasant ones of robbing Peter and Paul both.
Right now, as Zuckerman points out in the clip, there is *no* way to balance the budget in the black - and there won't be for years. That's Bush's fault. But what's to do in such a situation? You have to work at what you can for a long term solution, even when it keeps the nation deep in the red in the short term, and slowly claw matters back from the edge of the precipice.
Regards, C
Brian at 6:
Look at it this way - if you're $1,000 in debt, do you take a high-interest loan to pay the debt off or do you go a further $2 into debt to take the bus to work and earn a paycheck? The "kitchen-table" choice there seems obvious to me.
Regards, C
Pat Riot @ 12:
Brother can you spare a trillion?
I can confirm this. I own some shares in a Canadian bank. They rose a staggering 10% in one day today. I can think of no other reason since the Canadian market as a whole was down today. Someone should point out that deregulation in the USA, something McCain would favor, could bring the whole goddam world economy down like a proverbial house of cards. I have seen some people worrying about foreign overlords calling the shots on this -- that is a xenophobic distortion to some extent. It is one world economy -- Canadian banks fail, Swiss banks fail, Chinese banks fail and so do American banks. Hyper-deregulation in the USA puts everyone at risk.
james Ratliff @ 13:
The Republicrats talk of personal responsibility and how horrible is the concept of socialism.
Yet when the Fat Cats go bust they turn to government for a handout. A big handout.
With not one hint of personal responsibility for their predicament or sense of irony that they are seeking Socialism for Fat Cats.
THAT, by definition, is hypocrisy. They're good at it.
See, this is why I'm hoping they'll bring Sarah out of cold storage. She is a no nonsense, mean mamajama, and she will straighten out all those economists and all of our economic woes.
I can't wait to see the first answer to the first question from any reputable journalist about how she will apply the executive knowledge she gleaned from running the Wasilla town budget to fix the giant Ponzi scheme that is out national economy.!!
Seriously, the neo-cons and their elitist/fascist buddies who run the world's financial institutions have been working overtime for the past 40 years or so to suck as much as they could out of the American economy. Cheney has just been licking his chops - and Bush can't wait to be the next Pinochet.
It might be a good idea to start getting tutored in your favorite Chinese dialect; you may have a few years yet to become proficient.....
baby jesus is investing in pant suits
Notice the last frame of the video. Mort has a cheshire cat smile of someone who knows no matter what, he's gonna be fine. I think the fat cats that really run this game may wish the economy was doing better, but deep down inside, they don't have to give a crap.
Amitola @ 29:
xe-xe, brotha!
Marvin @ 14:
The trolls do not want to debate the merits of Socialism for Fat Cats.
If it were a single mother with six kids who needed help they would be against it. Though they would be glad she didn't abort any of the 'babies'.
Miatch @ 31:
Bingo! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
This is just why we need Obama - someone who can see how deep the hole is, and not only stops digging, but uses creativity to start filling it it.
Maybe, just maybe, we don't need a Manchurian candidate to destroy America. The neocons have already accomplished it.
An economic “9/11". Thanks for keeping us safe.
(Heh)
There is one and only one inviolable rule in the Murkin Kapitalistic System:
Socialize risk, privatize profit.
That's it.
If you understand that, every other single, petty, little, complex thing makes perfect sense.
Siay it with me, brothers!
AMEN! We Got To SOCIALIZE de risk, and PRIVATIZE de Profit, for de gloray of Jaysus...
Powkat @ 35:
His economic advisors are the same University of Chicago crowd that gave us Milton Friedman and the Raygun revilution (stet). One of his top guys ahs argued that Health Care costs OUGHT to rise, to absorb excess earnings of the citizenry. High medical costs are GOOD for you...
Thank you for an intelligent article on this issue. Appreciated.
But the republicans say that the free market will self regulate. When government sets in and regulates private institutions it prevents the free market from doing what it will do on its own.
We were assured of this, we were promised this was true, we were told anyone who didn't believe this with their whole heart and soul was a d*mn anti-American socialist.
Sure wish we hadn't turned down that fantastic opportunity to give these wise people all of the money we've contributed to our social security accounts. Dang we missed a great opportunity.
We might not know where the "bottom" is, but we sure as hell know where it all started.
The stolen election of 2000.
Just think of what we've been through over the past seven plus years, and right now McCain who backed Bush's policies 90-95% of the time...leads in the polling.
The rest of the world must think we are the dumbest people on the planet.
Let me put this another way... My son's son who doesn't even exist yet.. Should not already be responsible for sweeping up after George W. Bush and his administrations free market gone wild unregulated financial shitstorm.. While Bush himself and all the other principles, business or political, who bear real responsibility for this mess (Yea, Phil Graham, I'm thinking of exactly you asshole)... Gets to waltz away to their off-shore retreats or mansions in the Hamptons or mega mcmansions in Texas or Hilton Head SC or wherever it is those types like to go and to masterbate while staring at money.. Motherfuckers!!! I'm sick of seeing all the little people getting jammed up after another one of these fancy modern financial 'models' or 'ideas' goes freaking sideways yet again.... When I start seeing the Phil Grahams and the poppy Bush and Babs of the world start getting their digs reposessed and they're forced to live in a walkin closet and pay condo prices for it.. When the rich are selling their trinkets in pawn shops just to pay their electric bill, When that day comes, I'll start to feel like this financial 'burden' we all now have jammed up our asses sideways till we die is 'starting' to be equally shared.. Until then... This just feels like another ass rapin without lube to me.................JD
Whose to blame for deregulation Mort? Whose to blame for corporate welfare and giving lobbyist way too much power? You half-heartedly made reference to it. Congress Mort? Not nearly specific enough. Try Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats. Try the Bush administration who work so hard putting our taxpayers money into hedge fund and tax breaks for corporations and use cronyism and no-bid contracts to help make their elite friends even wealthier. Try Alan Greenspan, the modern architect for deregulation and monetary shift to ultra-elite. Try the MSM (what do you do for a living Mort?) who cover politics and the economy by regurgitating poll numbers and reducing analysis to base emotional reactions.
Saying it's "Congress's" fault is like saying the assassination of the Archduke Francis Ferdinand caused WWI.
Dalton @ 42:
Sorry, but it wasn't my choice.
Dalton @ 42:
Just finished a lovely visit from one of my wife's Swedish cousins and his partner. They're in shock, they absolutely can not believe what is happening right now. They watched as Palin was selected, I kid you not, they had to pick their chins up off the floor. Best way to describe their attitude as we put them on the flight to CA: Profound Disgust.
fuck it...the highway fund is a socialist enterprise anyway
if those rednecks who have fallen in love with palin want to go down to the local swimmin hole, let them pave their own roads...thats the american way
if this country falls for that "country first, im fighting for you" bullshit, while the candidate's wife walks out dressed in a 300k ensemble...they deserve the shit they get
im moving to alaska...shoot me some caribou and then run for vp
this is just around the corner too...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226.shtml
jakflorida32169 @ 37:
No one could see it coming. No one could have predicted it.
redsaunas @ 16:
Ding Ding Ding! Today's winner!
This should be on a bumper sticker.
LegallyBlonde @ 5:
Even if it were about the issues, McNasty admits he doesn't know jack shit about the economy..........guess that Keating Five thing kind of messed with his mind.
BrokenArrow @ 51:
What some people say about his 51/2 years as a POW could affect his mind as a MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.
He's right, we are screwed.
You see, they like to keep the profits private. But when the losses show up, they make the tax payer eat it.
And lets not forget their golden parachutes for the CEO's. They still get them.
miss_kitty @ 22:
Damn right miss kity. If they want ta do all that "elites" bashing bullshit to fool the dupes, let em' walk the walk too! Let em' live in the merikuh' they created for everyone else. The SOB's!
... wow! we are so screwed.
Everything the Bushies ever came near turned to shit. But John McCain says that the fundamentals of the American economy are sound.
Is he senile or just stupid?
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 33:
I don't think you could improve on that analysis.
Obama and Biden should come to crooks and liars to find some GOOD old fashioned, ass-kicking liberal democrat surrogates. The ones I always see on t.v. are pathetic!
This is a terrifying report and, coupled with all the comments, it just leaves me stunned that the race can be as close as it is. If McBush & Co. get into office, whatever is left of this country will receive even less respect in the world....if that could even happen.
"Even though many investors might purchase bonds that are based on multiple mortgages, betting that only very few of them would have any problems, the US government sought to increase demand for these bonds (and therefore supply of mortgages, and therefore, lower mortgage interest rates) by creating Fannie Mae to guarantee the bonds."
wikipedia
Every time I hear that something was caused by deregulation, I look into it and find out the government set it up. Same with the Enron rolling brown-outs in California:
"State lawmakers expected the price of electricity to decrease due to the resulting competition; hence they capped the price of electricity at the pre-deregulation level. Since they also saw it as imperative that the supply of electricity remain uninterrupted, utility companies were required by law to buy electricity from spot markets at uncapped prices when faced with imminent power shortages."
wikipedia
waterboarding for jesus @ 55:
Nope! Like Bush, he's just a couple of I.Q. points above all the morons who will vote for him.
Its not that they think the merikuhn' people is stupid, but rather, they know about half of them (their base) are clueless blithering idiots. And as long as they can keep the election reasonably close, Diebold will take care of the rest.
Here's an excellent piece expanding on some of these themes.
When Buchannan asks "Who's responsibile...?" He sure as hell knows it has been republican greed and cronyism propped up by McCain's adviser, Phil Gramm.
What people need to understand is that this bailout means nothing in the large picture because of all the bad paper still out there.
We had outright fraud on the parts of all parties from the brokers that wrote loans to people they KNEW did not have the means to pay to the people that flooded the financial markets with mortgage backed junk they knew were worthless.
Because of all the bad paper still out there and the houses that have not yet foreclosed, we most certainly have not seen bottom yet.
Then there are all those toxic debt instruments hanging out there. No one wants to get caught holding those turds.
We have yet to see this shake out. Not by a long shot.
redsaunas @ 60:
Whitney is the most important financial writer out there. Unfortunately, no one is reading or listening to what he's writing. They are not interested in the truth.
"Who" is to blame, Buchanan asks.
It is the wrong question: What is to blame is the system, the "Free Market" (the latest fashionable euphemism for "Capitalism") is to blame. Marx labeled it more accurately "Market Anarchy" this madness of wealth concentration by way of share manipulation, "securitization" & other such scams to create money from money by coining new terms.
So 2 "mortgage giants" that are "too big to fail" (this phrase has to be some sort of inside joke) are now in government "conservatorship" or temporary parental custody or whatever else the rulers wish to call it this time (see "scams" above) so to protect the private individuals that profited during the boom from the bust they have caused. They are in the hands of the people now & that is where they must stay. The rest of the banking sector should join them there.
"We want the abolition of the National Banks, and we want the power to make loans directly from the government. We want the accursed foreclosure system wiped out...We will stand by our homes and stay by our firesides by force if necessary, and we will not pay our debts to the loan-shark companies...The people are at bay, let the bloodhounds of money who dogged us thus far beware"
-from "Wall Street Owns the Country" circa 1890 by Mary Elizabeth Lease.
Reflect on that a bit & how far we have & haven't come in 118 years
euthyfro @ 64:
Good point. I always tell people, the Bushies represent the worst of the 19th centuries social Darwinists. How could we have elected these pigs to run (ruin) our country.
Mike V. @ 63:
I have been following the writing of Mike Whitney (the financial writer, not the Australian cricket player) for several years now. He predicted this whole damned mess with uncanny precision. Given his track record of accurately forecasting the trainwreck now in progress I advise everybody to pay very close attention to his views.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 50:
Not until you include the puppeteers who are pulling the strings of both the greedy AND the christotaliban. They're the truly evil entities in the little morality play we find ourselves living in.
They can start economizing immediately by immediately getting out of Iraq and by abolishing the naziesque Department of Homeland Security. Taxes are going to have to be raised, probably to pre-Reagan levels. Wallstreet and the banking industry are going to have to come under some serious regulationThe world will be lucky if it avoids a global economic collapse that would make the Great Depression look like a cakewalk.
Also, a lot of high flyers need to be put in prison for a long, long time.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 65:
We didn't elect them. Diebold and the Extreme Court installed these people in a bloddless coup. Expect more of the same in November.
masha @ 2:
They don't. Don't kid yourself.
Why would Joe Scar care about record deficits? He's a Republican, independent, in McCain's corner, isn't he?
Its okay, in four years, we'll still be in the economic shitter and the GOP will blame Obama and Biden!
Emma Hussein Goldman @ 70:
Too true.
As the Romans might have said: "Cui bono?" Or to put it another way: "Follow the money."
Oh Billy @ 1:
I fell the same way about Gregory!
KO got tossed because he apologized for a tasteless viewing of the grossest political grand-standing ever tossed out by a political party in the history of this country.
HOW MUCH MORE DISGUSTING CAN YOU BE? To show images of our embassy personel being held captive by Iranian students - “They’re the enemy! The enemy that wants to KILL you! They’ll be here if we don’t fight them forever!” Using 9/11 to sell a campaign, you disgusting pigs! I know where I was on 9/11. I remember the day vividly and I also remember a President who read “My Pet Goat”, who promised to go to the ends of the Earth to find the masterminds, who went to war in Iraq, a country that WAS NOT responsible for the tragedy, cost the lives of 4000 young men and women, who damaged the lives of thousands more, killed how many thousands innocent Iraqis and displaced so many more, all the while running up huge tremendous national debt. “All fear, all the time!” and the media gives John McCain a pass because he’s old, he’s a POW, he’s a Maverick and if he is, was and still was, he wouldn’t have picked the inexperienced, lying, sanctimonious, Governor of one of the smallest states in America.
That’s why KO was removed from commentary. Media has been hijacked by the GOP.
Miatch @ 31:
Add the question that prompted the smile, "You're not going to lose your house in the Hamptons are you?", and it has a much better effect.
It's time to start taxing all those Mega Churches. They got the influence over Washington they sought. Time to pay the bill.
Commander McCane to the rescue.
"Bailouts are essentially SOCIALISM"
Sometime it has to be done, for political and economic reasons.
So the US of A , despite the politcal rhetoric, practices Socialism.
The fat cats that were the CEO's ,or whatever, of the bailed out firms walk away with millions in their pocket and keep their mansions .
In this case the federal debt increases a few trillion, hopefully only one trillion, and I am afraid the American tax payers foot the bill.
So federal taxes have to increase.
Mike V. @ 62:
Mike,
I was reading some neo-con blogs the other day and the way the neo-cons are spinning this is that it was the liberals who are at blame for this mess because the loaning institutions were forced to make loans to minorities (their words; not mine) who they knew were high risk due to affirmative action.
Just letting you know how that one is getting spun. It wasn't predatory lending. It was FORCED lending to non-whites that is causing the problem.
I really wish I was making this shit up.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 23:
Well said. After all, it's only money....and since we've allowed these jerks to mismanage is for eight years, it's worth less every day.
And while the economy is tanking and the subprime pit gets deeper and deeper... John McCain promises change... with the help of his economic adviser Phil "Foreclosure" Gramm.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html
Oh cripes.
I actually looked into applying for dual citizenship with Canada today. Looks fairly simple enough - some forms to fill and some fees, but that's about it.
Its actually gotten to this point for me - I'm about thisclose to applying and looking for an apartment in Toronto...
Interesting discussion here. Reminds of the old jokes about corporate welfare bums and socialism for the rich, free enterprise for the poor.
Cernig @ 24:
Bush certainly has his fair share of the blame here... but lets not leave out congress... you know, that group of people which wrote all the bills that authorized the out of control spending for everything.
The irony is that both Obama and McCain are coming from the very group that is responsible for this out of control spending and they really haven't done much of anything up until this point to address the problem. And yet somehow, we are supposed to believe that they both represent change? CHANGE!?! LOL!
And no had the courage to ask Mr. Zuckerman whether he was proud of the work US News and World Report had done in 2000 to falsely portray Al Gore as a liar (just like that stinker Clinton when he "lied" about Whitewater, Vince Foster, Travelgate, and Trashing the Whitehouse on the Way Out-gate).
Mr. Zuckerman owes this nation a huge apology for trashing and flat out lying about Democrats and sucking up to destructive lying Republicans like George Bush and now McCain/Palin..
Our children, and their children, and many generations to come will be paying for the deceit of Mr. Zuckerman and the new-age Republican Party.
a former USN&WR subscriber.
Tim in Japan @ 79:
Hilarious. And absolute rubbish. Not that we should be shocked.
Greenspan and the banks were behind the funky loans. And of course behind keeping the Fed rate below the rate of inflation for 3 years.
But the larger picture that the rethug blogs miss of course, is the toxic debt instruments.
The way they were sold was outright fraud.
Orangutan. @ 40:
Agreed.
I've never been a good money manager myself, and it's been a personal, often self-defeating struggle. Somehow, I expected a little better from my government with my tax dollars though.
I guess it's time for another drink...
Buchanan asks "who's responsible?", and NO ONE says "fiat currency"... NO ONE says "fractional reserve banking".
Mort Zuckerman, at the end of the interview says that milloions OWN their homes... but if they actually OWNED their homes, they wouldn't be sweating a credit crisis.
No. The TRUTH is, practically NO ONE OWNS THEIR HOMES IN THIS COUNTRY! What you end up "owning" is a payment book, and thirty years of enslavement to the banks.
But no. Keep on thinking that this is going to be solved by performing some minor tweak to the system.
Don't think about the gold standard, think about the BREAD STANDARD!
A hundred years ago, before the advent of the Federal Reserve, which isn't actually owned by the federal government, a loaf of bread cost a nickel. Now, that same loaf of bread costs a DOLLAR. If we do NOTHING to the Federal Reserve,and simply allow it to continue on with the same exact policies, then in another hundred years, a loaf of bread will cost TWENTY DOLLARS!
You think that's absurd? Try asking a person living in 1900 what they think about a loaf of bread costing a dollar.
Why would any politician ruin their political career by asking the nation for a TAX, when they can simply borrow it from the Fed, and tax your CHILDREN a generation from now?
Abolish the Federal Reserve, and eliminate fractional reserve banking. The bankers don't DESERVE the power to issue our money.
redsaunas @ 66:
Correct. Do a google search on his articles.
One of them was about how he and his wife sold their home when things were starting to look insane. In 2005. I'll say that again - 2005.
Now, think about this as well. He sold his home they had lived in and owned for 25 years.
As in they were not in debt to the bank.
I'll tell you a story.
When I got divorced in very late 2000, I had money from the sale of our condo and took it to use as a 20 percent down payment on townhouse in San Diego while I was still living in the Bay Area.
I took a standard ARM (principle and interest loan that was based on the bank passbook rate fluctuations) which is nothing weird then, now or ever.
HOWEVER, this was just when the banks were starting to do things funny. They DID NOT REQUIRE that I prove my salary to them. Only employment verification. I knew I was not going to have a problem paying the mortgage, but how the hell did they??
Think about when this was - post dot.com meltdown.
Banks and financial institutions had to churn stuff.
Take all that to the logical conclusion if I had turned out to not be a good risk..
Zuckerman's a neocon or at least a neocon apologist, what's a blog about him doing on a liberal blog?
Both CEOs earned $14 million in 2007. Again it looks like they were paid big bucks for running the companies into the ground. Can't we get people that would do the same thing for less?
thank bush and neocon cronies.
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and they want four more years!
If you are confused about the mess we find ourselves in, I recommend viewing this crash course.
Ron Paul has been warning of this outcome for a very long time.
the dollar is already tanking and mort wants to print money?
remember the germans and the wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.
[ Site Monitors: the links for quoting posts have disappeared.]
Sometimes I wish Buchanan would just STFU. "Who's to blame?" I mean, what an idiot. Most people have only the sketchiest idea of the massive crisis that is taking place right now, in real time, and all Pat the PaleoCon can think to do is interrupt someone that is telling it like it is.
Who's to blame?? Practically everybody. Ronald Reagan and his bogus supply-side tax policies, that never, ever worked (increasing gross tax revenue by reducing income tax rates). George H. W. Bush. Alan Greenspan. George W. Bush. All the loyal Neocon economists, appointees and think-tank drones. Clinton, too, even though he generated surpluses and rising incomes, for getting rid of Glass-Steagall.
And everybody who elected and enabled the above.
[Let me guess-you're using IE7-Sitemonitor]
Annoyed Canuck @ 97:
(Quote feature still works for me, using Firefox)
Agreed about Buchanan; I don't think he really wanted to hear the answer he knew was coming. Was he substituting for Joe Scar (I don't watch the show)?
Thank God someone got on TV and told the truth. The one thing they haven't mentioned yet is the ERISA act of 74, 75 million baby boomers are required by law to start taking payment on their 401k stock market retirement which is now losing money at a terrible rate. Since there are more mutual funds than public company it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out more sellers than buyers is not good. What happens the ederly panic and pull their money out all at once?
scuez the typos,
Chicken "Hussein" Little - Not! @ 67:
Most certainly. Maybe we could offer several different versions that all get the point across.
MN USA @ 92:
I would be more than willing to run them into bankruptcy for say.......$750,000 a year. Not only that, but the value of the company to share holders just went up by13.25 million.
Oh Billy @ 1:
You got that right! I'll be changing my channel for certain!
redsaunas @ 16:
The gop reminds me of Barnum... there's a sucker born every minute and they've proven that by their abject decisions that have run the country into the ground these past 8 years.
James @ 89:
he almost almost explained fractional banking to the poor saps watching, he got very close to it.
explaining FB on TV in plain language would freak out the viewers.. :)
Commenter on another blog (can't remember) said Sunday if the stock market goes down, it will mark the date in history the depression began. If the stock market goes up, it means we are still sinking into fantasy land.
Either way, we're screwed.
At the latest we will get some ugly reality shortly after the elections, and that's being positive.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul476.html
What Dr. Paul is talking about is THE reason why we face the calamities that we are now facing.
Who are you going to talk to about this issue? Any other economist is oblivious to the crime syndicate that is the Federal Reserve, because they have all been indoctrinated into neo-liberal Keynesian economics. They simply have no frame of reference that would tell them that the SYSTEM is wrong, and nothing else.
You have someone who's actually on the Congressional Banking committee, and he's warning you about this, and has been warning about this for years, but O.J.'s on trial today, so you don't have to think about it.
Every empire in recorded history has fallen some time shortly AFTER devaluing their currency, and it's now happening to US. And every empire in history that HAS collapsed has entertained the people with bread and circuses, right up to the day of the collapse.
Look familiar?
Good luck America.
Look, I know you've all drank the Obama kool-aid, and I can't blame you. But hope is only good for BREAKFAST, it's useless for dinner.
To whomever wins the election, I wish them well. But even Mort Zuckermen admits that, at some point, the Fed is going to HAVE TO print money, and that's GOING TO cause hyperinflation. All the hope speeches in the WORLD isn't going to change that fact.
But when it happens, someone like Keith Olbermann will accuse the republicans, and you people will buy it, when the truth is, BOTH PARTIES do the same thing!
Again, I will ask the question: "Why would any politician ruin their political career by asking the nation for a TAX, when they can simply borrow it from the Fed, and tax your CHILDREN a generation from now?"
Annoyed Canuck @ 97:
That's an equivocation. And it's being used to justify continuing to elect people who are STILL IN THE LOOP! When Obama talks about "investing" in something, that's neo-liberal, keynesian CODE for "borrow money".
The irony is, "neo-liberal" economics isn't "liberal" at all! And Keynsianism is nothing more than a complicated excuse for selling our country down the river, because the politicians are too gutless to raise a tax to pay for their pet projects.
Ron Paul isn't responsible for this mess. He's voted against Federal taxes EVERY SINGLE TIME! He's been warning us about the dangers of fiat currency for over THIRTY YEARS!
But no. YOU think Ron Paul's ONLY motivation to be president is to take your abortion rights away... as if ONE MAN can do that.
Stop letting the PR people swerve you. They yell "wedge issue", and you fall right in step with whatever THEY want you to do.
ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 105:
Agreed. It's practically impossible to explain it without exposing it for the scam that it is.
The consequence sof Christian terrorism, fascism, and treason are coming home to roost. The Christofascist Bush regime has instigated a rolling world wide economic depression the likes of which will occlude anything seen in 1932's Great Depression. And the Christian terrorists and traitors who reaped all the tax payer money with their terrorist lies won't be protected from the consequences of their treason against us. They'll get to starve like everyone else.
A good 6 months back the Newspaper front page here where I lived said each household of a family of 4 would owe on average 500,000 dollars and that was the only time in the history of news casting did I hear anything about the national debt, what is now news is we all owe probably closer to a million now due to worsening mismanagement.
Did you hear Adolf Buchanan?! He tried to blame Barny Frank, when he knows congress has been under Republican control since 1994. What an SOB.
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