Sunday Morning Bobblehead Thread
By Nicole Belle Saturday Sep 20, 2008 7:00am
Money from Cabaret (1972)
I find that the analogy to Germany during those last waning days of the Weimar Republic to work on many levels, maybe it's just me. However, it's clear that money IS the number one topic on everyone's minds, given that Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is appearing on just about every morning show, save CNN. Sad that no one will have the gumption or journalistic integrity to ask Paulson exactly what he'll do to avoid this situation again.
ABC's "This Week" - Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson; Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.; Rep. John Boehner, R-Ohio.
CBS' "Face the Nation" - Paulson; Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.; Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala.
NBC's "Meet the Press" - Paulson; New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
CNN's "Late Edition" - Douglas Holtz Eakin, adviser to John McCain; Austan Goolsbee, adviser to Barack Obama; former Rep. Rob Portman, R-Ohio.; Gene Sperling, former Clinton administration economic adviser; Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas.
"Fox News Sunday" - Paulson; Sens. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and Charles Schumer, D-N.Y.; Bonnie McElveen-Hunter, chair of the American Red Cross.
"The Chris Matthews Show" - Panel: Bob Woodward, Elisabeth Bumiller, Norah O'Donnell, Rick Stengel; Topics: Which candidate can sell himself as best to fix the economy and Iraq? What do McCain and Obama need to accomplish in the first debate? Meter Questions: Is Gov. Sarah Palin a smart pick for John McCain? YES: 8 NO: 4; Can McCain beat Obama among swing voters? YES: 2 No: 10
CNN's "GPS with Fareed Zakaria" - Question of the week - Who on the campaign trail do you think will benefit most from the current economic situation? The Democrats or Republicans?
What's catching your eye this morning?
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Is This What They Mean by ‘The New Marxism?’
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=3318
Funny...I don't see Miss Sarah scheduled anywhere today.
The GOP should change the name of their economic policy from Trickle Down to Trickle Up.
Because quite frankly, the rich people's coffers did not get so full as to trickle down and rain cash on me and my family.
And yet my kids are going to be expected to pay for this war that Bush's hawkish friends dreamed up and this bailout that his rich friends engineered.
What a mess. And I drive around and see McCain signs in people's yards. Can someone explain this to me? The Republicans deserve to be FIRED just like McCain said.
This is the 4th round of Sunday shows, and still no appearances by Princess Wasilla? I guess no one besides Sean Hannity has shown the proper respect and deference needed.
Has anyone ever asked Fareed Zakaria any details about his attendence at the 2005 Bilderberg Group meeting? Given the financial collapse, and the massive socializing of just the bad debts, this week has been a Bilderberger's wet dream.
PEACE
Wow, Paulson sure gets around. Got to make sure his reassuring words make it into every Murikan TV today.
1984?
Bush has really hit the GOP jackpot with this Republican Great Depression II bail out plan--privatize profit and socialize loss--Phil Gramm's wet dream come true.
Paulson will be out there doing as Leader says, "catapulting the propaganda." To bad no one will ask the really tough questions and any Dems or Repubs that are on the morning bobble head shows will go along to get along. IMHO it's game, set, match for the U.S. of A. If there were any integrity left in the American people they would be on the streets raising hell. Instead they passively accept what a corrupt administration tells them and get back to their football game or tv reality gruel for the mind. The largest transfer of wealth from the people to the Wall Street criminals. Looks like Osama bin Laden won.
patriot @ 3:
Only places I see them here are in the yards of abandoned homes. Probably mortgage companies, hoping for some return on the places, figure no one will complain. Most are actually fairly hard to see among the piles of other trash from the emptied places...
Rick @ 2:
Yesterday a lot of people were complaining about the "change" of format for the Biden/Palin Debate. I was one of them until this morning when I found out that it will be Gwen Ifill (of PBS Jim Lehrers' Newshour). Gwen is a no nonsense Journalist who will ask the right questions.
The way I figure, after what we saw on Hannity (extreme softball and slant) and from the Charlie Gibson (mild mannered) if an extremely intelligent woman like Ifill asks her real questions about America's concerns and direction, we will get a good view of Palin. If she stumbled on Hannity and Gibson, she'll show us how she falls with Gwen.
♠♠...Bangkok Bob...♠♠ @ 9:
And they were smart to pick a female moderator so the Right won't be able to cry foul.
Good Morning Everyone!
Bush said the risk of not doing anything about bailing out wall street could be far worse. Didn't he say almost the same thing when he was pushing the invasion of Iraq? Didn't he say that the risk of not going into Iraq could result in something far worse. Just makes me wonder if things are as dour as they tell us they are.
here's what else he said:
“I will tell our citizens and continue to remind them that the risk of doing nothing far outweighs the risk of the package, and that, over time, we’re going to get a lot of the money back.”(emphasis mine).
get a lot of the money back!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
pissed off patricia @ 11:
I had to chuckle about the way he said he had made a "bold" move and furrowed his eyebrows. Someone must have said it would be bold to do such a thing and he just wants to be a cowboy. I remember kids like that who ran along side us in high-school who would do anything to be one of the guys. He is just a sad version of one of them in a world gone crazy where the inmates are running the asylum.
McCain was for privatization of Social Security before he was against it http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/20/mccain-claimed-privatizat_n_127...
Why debate Obama? Watching McCain debate himself is more entertaining.
After dropping off the radar screen for several days, the Pit Bull with Lipstick crawls out of her dog house to appear at The Villages in Florida today.
Bet she doesn't say "Palin/McCain administration" anymore.
Ron Paul ... I think John McCain lost a lot of support this week from fiscal conservatives who see this bailout as a horrible idea, the kind of people who voted for Ron Paul, and were maybe considering John McCain after he lied about Sarah Palin's record. Now I think those people will jump ship to Bob Barr, I just hope that Paul makes a strong case for that this week ..
new word otter @ 12:
I just heard that back, I think the person said around 1930, the govt did a similar thing and bought up a bunch of bad mortgages. It wasn't until sometime in the late 50s that, that turned around and made money for the govt. Based on that, it's going to be a bunch of years, if or when, this bailout makes good for the govt. So now, instead of the banks folding, our whole damned country is to a degree folding. Six hundred billion here and seven hundred billion there, plus god knows how much more we'll have to fork over as this whole thing plays out, sounds to me like a shit load of money someone is going to have to cover in one way or another.
Rick @ 2:
She'll be lying in Florida today.
Ruthless People @ 18:
.....like the goooooood Chreestian she is.
I like the fact that the Obama campaign okay-ed the new conditions for the veep debate. When it's over if someone cries foul against Biden, the Obama campaign can say we agreed to the sort of debate format they asked for. We did everything we could to make her comfortable. If she didn't do well, that can't be attributed to the Obama campaign.
Bush is worried about the 'ripple effect' if the government doesn't help...hell, nothing the Bush administration has done did anyone except his buddies any good.
We have nothing to worry about if the magnitude of the 'ripple effect' caused by the failure of greedy WALL STREET is equal to or even ten times greater than the 'trickle down' economic theory they have touted to bring prosperity to the masses...
Scaring us with a Tsunami again? Maybe that failure will reform government...a bailout using taxpayer money certainly won't!!!!
pissed off patricia @ 17:
we could prolly get it all back by shaking only a coupla hundred CEOs by their ankles really, really hard.
Ruthless People @ 18:
I don't know what she's doing down here. We haven't any moose to shoot. We haven't any wolves to run down. I think it still might be alligator season so she might get to blow the brains out of one of them and wear the skin in some way. Even better, she could challenge on of them to a wrestling match.
new word otter @ 22:
Yep, and have a ton of buckets on hand to catch what falls out.
Fun Fact 1: President of Germany during the Great Depression and the last days of the Weimar Republic: An elderly, nearly senile "War Hero" Ex-General with a bad temper, whose death brought Hitler into power.
Fun Fact 2: Ben Bernanke is an expert on the Great American Depression, which was marked by Deflation, something he has avoided very successfully. The Great Depression is Central Europe was marked by Inflation, something Mr. Bernanke seems to ignore right now. Is burning dollars actually allowed?
Wildspirit @ 21:
There is no such thing as a ripple effect with the bush administration. Since these people have been in it has been one stormy sea after another and the ripples a 80 foot wave. We don't need a "bail-out", we need a Lifeboat ... and that Lifeboat is Obama/Biden.
"I find that the analogy to Germany during those last waning days of the Weimar Republic to work on many levels, maybe it’s just me."
It's not just you. The parallels are rather frightening.
Anyone watching Dodd and "Boner"? They are saying they can't tell us what they were told that sucked all the air out of the room the other night. Why? What is the big fu*king secret? We're big boys and girls, if the Senate can hear it and take it, why can't we.
Plus now they are saying this bailout may not work. Well, what if it doesn't, what then?
♠♠...Bangkok Bob...♠♠ @ 26:
Amen!
pissed off patricia @ 23:
Maybe she heard there was one Florida panther left?
You know how these right wing "pro-lifers" aren't happy unless they can kill as many of God's creatures as possible.
Here's a thought from the far side of my small mind. I wonder if one of the countries that we have been borrowing from as of late, decided to perhaps call in their loans to us. The news of that would sure as hell suck the air out of a room and perhaps a whole damned house.
If they saw our financial structure falling apart, it would make sense they would want their money before that happened. Maybe seeing that we were willing to bailout the financial institutions would placate them for a while. Who knows? I'm just playing with thoughts this morning.
What caught my eyes is that the liberal media has turned the volume on with their bias against Mccain Palin. Next, I expect to hear that Palin's female DNC is not suited for the VP position and Mccain's baldness is a genetic indication of some sort of deranged mental condition.
The whole burn the witch and swat the old man headlines in the media is giving me a rash! And dems wondered why americans are not respected overseas....please, have some respect for yourselves and act like statesmen and humble servants to the people and maybe people of the world will treat you like one. This election is a no brainer for me. Mccain Palin all the way...oh, and I like the idea that Palin doesn't know all the washington, beltway jargons. This is a sign that Mccain did indeed pick a mainstreet maverick independent minded person to break up the good old boys status quo.
WHAT???
Sen Kyl on FnS just said "the BUSH Administration has sought increased regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from day one, and it is the Democrats that blocked them at every turn."
And Schumer let him get away with it.
Nationalism + Socialism = National Socialism
The greatest swindle in the history of the world is unfolding before our very eyes.
I never thought I would see the day that Donna B. and George W. agree about how to proceed on the issue of this 700 billion dollar bail out which in fact is socializing our government. Doanna and George are looking for some kind of transparency and accountability and Sam and Cokie are both hysterical, like little girls, "give them everything they want - this is an emergency".
Federal judge orders Cheney to preserve VP records
"WASHINGTON - A federal judge on Saturday ordered Dick Cheney to preserve a wide range of the records from his time as vice president.
The decision by U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly is a setback for the Bush administration in its effort to promote a narrow definition of materials that must be safeguarded under by the Presidential Records Act.
The Bush administration's legal position "heightens the court's concern" that some records may not be preserved, said the judge."
Think he'll scrub stuff them, say they're misplaced, or that he's not part of the US Govt?
Krugman weighs in against the bailout:
http://tinyurl.com/4z44c7
I will not vote for anyone that supports this plan.
There really is nothing Bush can't bankrupt. Impeachment should never have been off the table. Win now and inherit a smoldering ruin. Great strategy Pelosi and Reid.
matt @ 32:
Wrong ... I am overseas (from where you are) and the view for the most part from Germans, French, Italians, Swedes and what have you is that Palin by her own words shows she has not the knowledge or mindset to be in that position and as for McCain, he constantly talks of WAR, he is a bitter soldier, who know what is going on in the tortured mind of his. A really large subject about mccain overseas is that he is a misogynist who picked a woman for political votes, not good reasoning. People talk about how they notice he never touches his wife and she is always behind him, never alongside, they show no affection for one another.
With a population of approximately 300 million people, you could give away your $ 1 trillion by giving every man, woman and child in the U.S. $ 3,400 each. Alternatively, you could give $ 38,500 to every Iraqi living in Iraq.
If McCain gets it... Tomorrow Belongs To Me also from Cabaret and one of the scariest things I've every seen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM8PDu6VMg
Kristol's "Tips on (Debate) victory" for McCain:
"Mention how many times Hillary called Obama inexperienced and naive at every possibility."
Anyone STILL think Obama should of picked Hillary for his VP?
Here's Sarah Palin's favroite number from Cabaret.
Opiate of the Masses
♠♠...Bangkok Bob...♠♠ @ 38:
oops, sorry about all that bold lettering, fat fingers.
[Deleted. Off topic. It belongs on an Open Thread. Thank you. Site Monitor]
28 pissed off patricia Says:
"Anyone watching Dodd and “Boner”? They are saying they can’t tell us what they were told that sucked all the air out of the room the other night. Why? What is the big fu*king secret? We’re big boys and girls, if the Senate can hear it and take it, why can’t we.
Plus now they are saying this bailout may not work. Well, what if it doesn’t, what then?"
I'm not sure what scheme they are going to try next if their plan does fail but from what I am hearing this may be all they have left. The only other alternative that I can see is to monetize the debt. They may have to do that anyway especially since the acutal price tag isn't really known. This thing is so big and covers so many banks and investment brokerages that if they continue to fall we could have a 1929 or 1987 type of stock market crash or worse yet, they will bring down a good portion of the U.S. economy down with it.
L.A. Confidential @ 43:
I do that once in a while. I know a couple of places on the Lao border where you can smoke for just a couple of bucks and they bring in tea and cookies. Too bad you can't do that in America, more people would mellow out and realize that it just is not that important to have everything, just relax with what you have.
(this moment of Zen brought to you be BB)
Seems like history may be repeating itself...the rich and King George take from the people and give to the rich bankers..I think we know what happens next. Does it sound like a plan?
Hank Paulson is worth $500,000,000 .. with that kind of scratch you think he could afford a decent watch, not an iron man triathlon watch that every kid wants in 2nd grade.
One thing I'd like to hear Paulson answer today is this: "What will the banks and other money brokers give back to the public in return for their generosity?"
Perhaps the public through Congress could start by demanding in exchange a reduction in the amount of front loaded interest borrowers pay on home mortgages and other loans? The amortization formula used by lenders represents pure greed and nothing else other than maybe legalized theft.
matt @ 32:
Regarding American's standing overseas, you are kidding, right? I, along with Bangkok Bob (here's a hint, Bangkok is not in Ohio) can tell you, that in Asia, at least, the current political administration has hurt our standing beyond belief.
Here, in Japan, where I live, the average Japanese person is unhappy that Japanese troops were sent to Iraq as their constitution only allows for a self-defense force and they were not attacked by Iraq (nor was the U.S. btw).
They are also upset that their oilers are called upon to re-fuel U.S. Navy ships.
And they are flat-out pissed off that the recruitment standards have been lowered in the U.S. military as the city of Yokosuka has seen 3 murders in 2 years, all 3 committed by people affiliated with the U.S. Navy base in Yokosuka.
When I last traveled to Busan, South Korea (2005), there was a dramatic change in the tone Koreans took toward Americans from the 1990s. The same applies for Singapore, Indonesia and Australia.
This is what I saw when I traveled to these places as a U.S. Navy Sailor.
The Chinese loved us however. But then again, they pretty much so own us, so...it makes a little more sense.
Bob,
I am moving to the U.S. on Wed (guess I will have to change my name here) and MAY be coming back for a week or so in late October. If I do, depending upon airfare, I might swing by Chiang Mai. Will you have a chilled Singha waiting for me? ;-)
Rico @ 49:
FREE TOASTERS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!
$700 Billion Bailout Plan Would Give Paulson Dictatorial Powers, Which CAN'T Be Reviewed by the Courts
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZ2aFDx8_idM&refer=home
Welcome to the final stages of the coup...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/welcome-to-the-final-s...
We Have DAYS To Stop the $700 Billion Stick-Up (and Fascist Power Grab)
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/we-have-days-to-stop-700-b...
32 matt Says:
"What caught my eyes is that the liberal media has turned the volume on with their bias against Mccain Palin. Next, I expect to hear that Palin’s female DNC is not suited for the VP position and Mccain’s baldness is a genetic indication of some sort of deranged mental condition.
The whole burn the witch and swat the old man headlines in the media is giving me a rash! And dems wondered why americans are not respected overseas….please, have some respect for yourselves and act like statesmen and humble servants to the people and maybe people of the world will treat you like one. This election is a no brainer for me. Mccain Palin all the way…oh, and I like the idea that Palin doesn’t know all the washington, beltway jargons. This is a sign that Mccain did indeed pick a mainstreet maverick independent minded person to break up the good old boys status quo."
Well Matt, the Republicans seem to have followed up your its a "no brainer" with a ticket that has no brains. John McCain, by his own admission has a vast amount of foreign policy experience yet some how continues to be completely incompetent when it comes to his foreign policy decisons. How he manages to do that is beyond me. Then, he picks a VP who knows nothing about foreign policy at all. If you wanted a no brains and all ideology ticket you certainly have gotten your wish.
Sounds like this financial bailout is similar to the Patriot Act. Passed through during times of Emergency and full of unnecessary power grabs for the powerful. Naomi Klein and the Shock Doctrine sums it up really well.
All morning, I've been hearing people misquote Joe Biden, claiming he said paying MORE taxes is Patriotic.
If I'm not mistaken, Biden simply said paying your taxes is "Patriotic" (because we have so many unwilling to do so).
Don @ 51:
Why do I need a toaster? I own the bank! :)
CNBC's Steve Liesman said on MtP:
(paraphrase) "The government is relying the people responsible for this mess (on Wall Street) to get us out of this mess. And I think the number of 'conflict of interest' stories we'll see in the next few months will keep us (reporters) busy for a very long time."
i'm already tired of these jackasses using the term "illiquid assets." i haven't heard yet exactly how the government plans on turning these illiquid assets into cash at some point, but i sure am glad that all the wall street companies and banks have clean balance sheets!
bush has bankrupted every business he has ever tried to run, so i guess i'm not surprised that in his last few months in office, we get a true glimpse of just how completely he (and his administration) has bankrupted this country, in every way possible.
now...time for me to go to work, on a Sunday, because i'm in no danger of being bailed out by the government, and must pay my own bills.
Scheiffer's final comment defending the Regulation that was stripped away to put us in this mess was good, but spoiled with his opening claim that:
"For years, Republicans and Democrats have sought to strip away all the rules & regulations..."
I'm getting VERY tired of all these false claims that Democrats are equally responsible for the current crisis.
fastfeat @ 5:
yes! it has been going on that long.
trueblueinmass @ 60:
they are going to sell your home out from under you if you default and blackwater will be the federal marshall enforcing the eviction notice.
in china, someone responsible for an economic catastrophy they knowingly participated in would be executed. no failing upward, no platinum parachute.
just saying...
since the topic is financial leadership -- where's Mr. McShame's fearless leader PHIL GRAMM been these past couple of days?
Joe O. @ 45:
shock doctrine.
see 9/11, katrina/rita/wilma, osama tapes,etc.
matt @ 32:
Sorry, Matt. No cigar, no door prize. McGramps/Moosegirl is a losing ticket. And as far as other countries not respecting us? It's the fault of a certain cowboy cretin who shall remain nameless ...
Oh, and once again: There is no "liberal media." It's a figment of your and other right-wingers' fevered imaginations.
Next?
pissed off patricia @28
Anyone watching Dodd and “Boner”? They are saying they can’t tell us what they were told that sucked all the air out of the room the other night. Why? What is the big fu*king secret? We’re big boys and girls, if the Senate can hear it and take it, why can’t we.
Is this like the "phoney" threats they have use in the past to get the dems to vote on something? Remember the "threat" they used last year to try to get the spying bill extended? Remember the "secret" intelligence for going to war in Iraq? I'm tired of them treating us like imbeciles. Lay it out there and let us hear it. I can take it.
Every fucking time they do something "secret" we get fucked and learn later what could have been different.
The round table on George's show chewed up McCain and spit him out this morning. If any undecided voter was watching that show was probably very sure of his or her vote by the end of the discussion. If you can get the comments on this site I would do it. It was very clear what they thought. McCain is old. He's got a temper. His economic policies are dismal. This coming from George Will. He can't keep anything straight. And they better start bringing age into the discussion again. This coming from Sam Donaldson. A come to Jesus moment brought to you by ABC news.
I think it was a Krugman article where I first read that we shouldn't become a Wiemar Republic because our debt has been (and presumably will now be expanded) in dollars. Perhaps a stylish handbag but not a suitcase of money to go to the grocery store.
Of course, the world could decide en masse to make the Euro the de facto standard.
I found this in my newspaper from the AP yesterday morning...it was again in the newspaper this morning:
'The Administration is asking Congress for far-reaching new powers to take over troubled mortgages from banks and other companies, including purchasing sour mortgage-backed securities.'
J. Brew, Chief Bank Strategist at M. Rae Resources, inc: "This is the biggest travesty the Federal Government has ever gotten involved with. This is just going to lead to a much deeper and prolonged recession"
This situation is so much bullshit. It's 'duct tape' designed to delay an inevitable crash until after Bush has vacated office. As everyone knows by now, our monkey-brained President plans to use The Peoples money, OUR money to do it...after he tells the Treasury to print more, because last Wednesday 700 million in value simply evaporated into thin air. Which financial giant is next to go under? It seems that the New York times has it's bets on Washington Mutual.
JerryO @ 71:
does it matter? they're all collapsing, like those buildings at the end of "fight club"...
got any popcorn..?
paulson was sweating like a guy strapped with an explosive vest on "face the nation"... wonder why?
brother can you spare a dime? many here dont like me !why ? because im not your kind of democrat !why am i not your kind of democrat its because unlike you for the most part, im far to the left and dont believe in any democrat being a centerest, like obama has become , naturaly i hate republican politicians they are the party of screw the poor and middle class, the problem with americans is they never lived thru the real depression of the thirtys, today for a poor family thiers food stamps , social programs to help the poor and unfourtunate survive untill maby times get better, when i was a kid thier wasnt anything except maby a welfare order you could apply for for getting food for your family, and it was little enough at that because you werent given hardly enough to survive for the month , i saw my mother eat a crust of bread and she gave us five children what was left, ive seen skinny hoboes come to our door begging for food and though we had little she never turned a hungry man away without giveing them something to eat, times are comeing back to where you may see your kids going to school in rags , unfed and hungry , think it wont happen to your family , well good luck there folks, the rich are out to get you and wont be happy till your back to where we were in the 20s and thirtys, politicians today are pond scum, and they are owned by the same bastards sons who payed for the strike breakers who beat your grandfathers skulls in when they asked for unions and fair pay so thier children could eat ,
Janet @ 68:
Good question. I truly believe that it was Paulson sating that the whole thing would collapse in another day or two if the rabbit wasn't pulled immediately from the hat. The pic of the whole group (Pelosi, Reid, Bernanke, Dodd, etc) on Fri looked like a group of zombies. Dodd looked and sounded like he just got word of a death in the family.
I think that the reality was that it was far more ominous than we were lied to believe it was over the last couple of weeks. The secrecy was just the way ShrubCo works. They probably couldn't afford to pull National Guard troops out of Texas to guard the WH from torch-carrying citizens...
George Will was remarkably critical of McCain this past week, talking about how McCain seemed clueless about how to respond to the crisis on Wall Street.
Will criticized McCain's simplistic reaction: "Let's fire someone!" and chose Chris Cox of the SEC, a Conservative Republican that did nothing wrong other than to enforce the policies of this Administration.
OK. What have you done with the real George Will???
The next few weeks/months will be an emotional roller coaster ride.
I don't see how this can be fixed in the short term. Good luck folks.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with tyree up there.
I think this will be worse than the 80's. And I remember no food in the kitchen back then. Months of no food.
Those were tough times for my family.
I'm not going to get into who's at fault. We all know who was in charge.
All I'm going to say is good luck folks.
"I find that the analogy to Germany during those last waning days of the Weimar Republic to work on many levels, maybe it’s just me."
I only make the analogy on the economic level for the time being. In order to avoid an American 1930s style depression, the government is raising the national debt. That's what we're hearing today. We also hear that the government is guaranteeing money markets and so forth.
What we're not hearing is how the government intends to pay down this debt. I only see four choices.
A.) Print money like the Weimar Republic
B.) Raise taxes
C.) Cut government spending to create budget surpluses
D.) Do nothing, Jesus will miracle away the national debt.
Until we hear a discussion of whether or not we can continue to spend $600B to be the world's policeman, we're not having an honest dialog about the problem. Until we have a discussion on how "free market" ideologues have created disincentives towards producing cures, causing the economy to be saddled with unsustainable health care costs, we're not having an honest dialog. Until we have a discussion on how we have off-shored manufacturing so that America no longer makes anything, we're not having an honest discussion. Until we have an honest discussion, the likely scenario is option "A", hence the analogy to the Weimar Republic. Of course, that's not the end of the world, as Adolf Hitler came to the rescue with his plan of "benevolent global hegemony", leading to a glorious new world order. So, we have a model to emulate in the event we go with choice "A".
Meanwhile - we're discussing whether being intelligent is "elitist". And we're hearing ads about taxes, ignoring that choice "A" is the only option if the government continues to spend more than it takes in.
---------------------
Register to vote and get your friends to do so also.
https://www.voteforchange.com/index_obama.php
Email the link around. There's still time, but no time to waste.
mudshark @ 77:
Buy in bulk. Thank god my dog and I enjoy the same brand of dog food and smoke the same brand of cigarettes...
Don @ 51:
Loans now available to buy bread for those who qualify.
NoBuddy @ 78:
no, no, you don't understand -- i learned this morning why we're in this disaster:
it's bill clinton's fault.
karen marie @ 81:
I know you're making a joke, but the reality is, if we had the balanced budgets that Clinton engineered, we could take this hit. The Bush tax cuts and the resulting deficits have caused the federal budget to be over extended, and that lies squarely with the Republicans like Cheney who stated that deficits don't matter, and to some extent, the American public who accepted the tax cut logic, and refused to see that we can't continue to spend more than we take in indefinitely. That combination leads me to think that eventually, we're going to wind up printing money banana republic style, hence the analogy to post World War I Germany.
I don't agree with Pat Buchanan on a range of domestic issue, but he has been right on the mark as far as foreign policy.
Today, finally some food for thought on domestic policy
http://www.creators.com/opinion/pat-buchanan/the-party-s-over.html
where all the trolls today?
could they all be out collecting fresh samples of dung beetle dung for grover turdquest's magic potion, the one that's gonna make the economy all sparkly and pretty like a unicorn?
patriot @3 sez:
"The GOP should change the name of their economic policy from Trickle Down to Trickle Up."
It's more like "Piddle Away" in'nit? (;>
Pickles @ 67:
Filling Shrubby's beer bong.
Mugsy @ 42:
Anyone remember the last time KKKristol was correct on anything?
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 35:
Alas, so many of us are permanently asleep...
Ruthless People @ 18:
Consulting with Katherine Harris.
fastfeat @ 89:
Hillary would have been a good choice except it seemed that the Clintons, especially Bill, was walking around with chips on their shoulders. It didn't seem that the adversarial relationship had evaporated at convention time.
Germany-1932. Bread lines. Soup kitchens. Veterans on the streets, begging in their old uniforms. Unemployed workers, angry and broke.
Enter the N.S.D.A.P. (Nazi) party. While the rich sip expensive champagne in the nite clubs of Berlin, the angry masses are becoming mobilized by a rabid ex corporal named Hitler. America is Germany 1932. We've been transported back in time by the Republican mess of Bush.
kit_wilson@93
The US also had bread lines, soup kitchens, vets on the street, etc., in 1932. We got FDR, regulation of the economy (SEC, FDIC), Social Security.....Not saying that your example couldn't happen here, but it could break another way, too.
NoBuddy @ 92:
Yep. Clinton support has seemed lukewarm at best. If the Clintons were really involved in promoting Obama, we'd hear the Rethugs speaking ill of them to deflect attention away from Palin.
Sorry to be somewhat off-topic. PBS Now still has the "Is Sarah Palin Qualified to Be VP" poll up. And it's 53% Yes. Thought everyone would like a reminder to check it out:
http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html
Without a doubt this move by Treasury, The Federal Reserve and our elected officials is going to be the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the richest 1% of the population who can well afford the hit considering the billions they have made in gaming the system for years.
When the politicians keep telling us that this must be done or the consequences would be even greater, they are using nothing other than scare tactics ( Schock Doctrine ) to get the American people to go along. There is another way out of this that won't cost us a dime, but I'll tell you why they won't do it.
When our country was founded, the fonders very clearly stated in the Constitution that there was to be a US Tureasury with coin in both gold and silver. That held for nearly 170 years until in 1913 the Federal Reserve or central bank was created and we then went to a fiat system which we have today with trillions of paper dollars with nothing to back them floating around the world.
Presently Congress which controls weights and measures states that all of the US gold holdings are only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says gold is worth $900 and ounce currently. All Congress would have to do is to re-value that gold to the current market price. The Federal Reserve has already used half of its reserves to bail out all of the banks that have failed to date, so why buy them out on the taxpayers back for 700 Billion? Because our wonderful politicians who have grown accustomed to sucking off the teet of the bakers can continue to keep all of us an endentured slaves to a system of continuous debt. Without the Federal Reserve which is nothing but a cartel of private banking concerns, the American people would no longer have to pay outrageous interest rates so that the bankers can get fatter on our hard work and sweat which is not what the founders envisioned. Cut off the head of the hydra known as the Federal Reserve and many of our current problems simply disappear.
The bailout in its current form doesn't even allow Congress or a court of law to review the process and gives unlimtied power to one man. Paulson, who should have been kicked out of office along with Bernanke because they were well aware of this financial tsunami over a year ago and did nothing to stop it.
If any of you reading this have a free moment to contact your Congressmen and Senators, thell them that if we truely live in a society that is supposed to have free markets, then DON'T allow them to steamroll this through as the did the Patriot Act in the dark of night. Many in Congress never even read the bill.
Time is short everyone, but there is another way. Stop and think about it. Why is our gold only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says it is worth far more. The revaluation of our gold, can buy out the Fed and send them back to hell where they belong. Jefferson knew this. The Republicans under Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, and since that time, the dollar has lost 95% of its value.
If you want to continue being a slave to the debt masters do nothing. If your in agreement, get on the phone, write a letter, send an e-mail or fax, but do it now as this proposal will be out of the house this week and then onto the Senate waiting for the signature of the ultimate crook in chief. George W. Bush.
Anyone else note "another Sunday with no Palin"? Geez, not even Fox?
The McCain campaign is scared to death of letting her anywhere near a format where she might be expected to answer some real questions.
patriot @ 3:
I agree. Those who were guilty of this crime were unhappy with McCain's straightforward speech. I hope McCain wins.
Mugsy @ 98:
They have decided to keep Sarah Palin out of the media curiosity, so you can have regular synapses in your brain. Palin excites the liberals. Have rest until the debate.
Paulson needs to do something a bit more dramatic if he wants my support.
I believe the traditional method for reform on Wall St involves an open upper story window.
tyree @ 76:
Stop blaming the republicans. BTW, the poor dems and repubs are overly fed and spoiled by the system. When they are overly fed, people are not motivated to educate, work, and pay back to the govt., so they could recycle their efforts to the poorest of the poor. Taking advantage of the system is a sin. Whining is also a sin. Consider you are better than the poorest of the poor in the third world countries. The poor in the U.S. do not pay taxes and yet are complaining that they did not receive more.
EZ @ 99:
I don't know about that, it's getting difficult to tell where the Republicans stop, and the commie pinkos start.
"Government is the problem, not the solution" Ronald Reagen
"The Fed is not a piggy bank" Alan Greenspan
"We need to give $700 billion to prop up Wall St" George W Bush
Looks to me like the GOP just threw it's ethics and morals on the ash heap of history.
EZ @ 102:
Stop blaming the Republicans?
You're joking, right?
Oh, wait -- you're EZ. You're a moron.
I can see a bailout to the extent that it protects depositors, but not to the extent it protects stockholders. I think we should have a little more transparency in any bailout program, so that we, as citizens have a chance to provide feedback to our elected officials before any plan ensues or is voted on.
Fat chance of a government of the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation to cooperate with that.
The financial crisis should be blamed partly on Clinton. According to Drew Zahn, "A New York Times article from Sept. 1999 states that Fannie Mae had been under increasing pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans among low- and moderate-income people and that the corporation loosened its lending requirements to comply.
An ominous paragraph of the article reads, "In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s."
BTW, the media, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, do not report the accurate news to the people. NBC comedy channel is going to be in big trouble for defamation of character on the Palins. We have to put an end to such scandalous comedy on the air.
What about Biden's true story of how his wife really got killed is a mystery to many of us.
Read the entire story, guys. Biden is looking for sympathy on false allegations.
Who is Biden? Do you really know who he is? I hope they opened up the cold case on the driver of the truck.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080904/NEWS02...
U.S. Treasury Is About To Be Robbed. Secretary of The Treasury Paulson is the Head Gun Man
Ohio Governor Ted Strickland was on Ohio University’s campus Friday at 5 p.m. His support for Obama had the crowd going. But when he addressed the bailout crisis his words were grim. He had talked with Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) and what ever Senator Brown had heard in the meeting with Paulson and Bernecke had shook him to his core. All I heard out of Governor Strickland’s mouth was how important everyone thought it was to move quickly QUICKLY. That same evening I turned on MSNBC and there was Senator Dodd saying “quickly” we need to move “quickly” to bail these companies out. Dodd went onto say that “the oxygen had left the room” when Bernecke and Paulson let our Reps know just how serious it is claimed to be. WTF
As I watched and listened to Secretary of the Treasury Paulson on Meet the Press and This Week I thought to myself the U.S. Treasury is about to be robbed, cleaned out by the very same people who take stands against a national health care program, equity in education etc. The banking thugs who bundled bad loans and passed them on (so they would not be held accountable) to Insurance companies that entangle the American taxpayers pensions, retirement funds etc. I feel like the American people are sitting in their living rooms about to watch one of the biggest bank robberies of all times. The U.S, Treasury and Paulson the key holder to the treasury is holding a gun to our Reps heads and to the American taxpayers heads ” better give in now or it’s going to be worse”. Paulson would not support any suggestions being made to hold these corporate thugs accountable. No severance packages, investigations etc. Paulson stated that “it pained him” that the American taxpayer was going to be left holding the bag. But the bailout was the best way to “protect the American taxpayer” Where the hell have Paulson and Bernecke been? Where the hell have they been?
The only person to say “whoa, what’s the rush” was Donna Brazille, with a bit of support from George Will. (could hardly believe that one)
It seems we are about to witness the biggest robbery of all times and the American taxpayers are sitting and watching the robbery from their living rooms.
CALL YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSPEOPLE THIS WEEK AND SAY NO TO THE BAILOUTS. HOLD THESE THUGS ACCOUNTABLE. AT THE VERY LEAST INVESTIGATE EVERY CEO AND THEIR PERSONAL HOLDINGS AND MAKE THEM PAY FOR THESE VERY SERIOUS MISTAKES.
Call write, email QUICKLY QUICKLY QUICKLY before these thugs rob the U.S. treasury
MAKE THEM PAY FOR NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FOR THE 40 MILLION UNINSURED FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
Glenn Greenwald's updates on the potential robbery of the U.S. Treasury
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....index.html
UPDATE: Here is the current draft for the latest plan. It’s elegantly simple. The three key provisions: (1) The Treasury Secretary is authorized to buy up to $700 billion of any mortgage-related assets (so he can just transfer that amount to any corporations in exchange for their worthless or severely crippled “assets”) [Sec. 6]; (2) The ceiling on the national debt is raised to $11.3 trillion to accommodate this scheme [Sec. 10]; and (3) best of all: “Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency” [Sec. 8].
Put another way, this authorizes Hank Paulson to transfer $700 billion of taxpayer money to private industry in his sole discretion, and nobody has the right or ability to review or challenge any decision he makes.
SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY PAULSON IS THE GUN MAN ON THE INSIDE HE IS ABOUT TO OPEN THE U.S TREASURY TO THE BANKING THUGS AND WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
CALL YOUR REPS TOMORROW AND ALL WEEK. SAY NO TO THE BAILOUT UNDER THESE TERMS
DaveK @ 96:
It's up to 54% Yes now.
Glen @ 101:
where the hell was Paulson and Bernecke up until the last week. Odd somehow that they show up a week before the break and hold a gun to our Rep's heads and say sign this "quickly" because it is only going to get worse. WTF.
Paulson is the head thug and he is on the inside with the keys to the U.S. Treasury. Will U.S. taxpayers just sit and watch while they are robbed by rich fat cats being driven away from the scene of the crime in chauffered driven black sedans to their yachts and mulit billion dollar houses.
I want to see Time or Newsweek do a spread on the top 10-20 CEO's holdings, homes , cars, diamonds, yachts ,stocks etc ect in all of the companies that are asking to be bailed out. HOld these fat cats ACCOUNTABLE OR NO NO NO BAIL OUT.
Sacrifice these thugs or let the public at them.
Donna Brazille was the only one to say "whoa what's the rush" in regard to the push for these bailouts. I never thought I would see Donna Brazille and George Will almost agree on this issue
Watch the roundtable. Watch Paulson hold the gun to the head of American Taxpayers "it's going to be worse later"
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek
Read Secretary of the Treasury Paulsons biography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Paulson
Paulson was Staff Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense at The Pentagon from 1970 to 1972.[5] He then worked for the administration of U.S. President Richard Nixon, serving as assistant to John Ehrlichman from 1972 to 1973.
He joined Goldman Sachs in 1974, working in the firm's Chicago office. He became a partner in 1982. From 1983 until 1988, Paulson led the Investment Banking group for the Midwest Region, and became managing partner of the Chicago office in 1988. From 1990 to November 1994, he was co-head of Investment Banking, then, Chief Operating Officer from December 1994 to June 1998;[7] eventually succeeding Jon Corzine (now Governor of New Jersey) as its chief executive. His compensation package, according to reports, was US$37 million in 2005, and US$16.4 million projected for 2006.[8] His net worth has been estimated at over $700 billion.[8] Paulson has personally built close relations with China during his career. In July 2008 it was reported by The Daily Telegraph that: "Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson has intimate relations with the Chinese elite, dating from his days at Goldman Sachs when he visited the country over 70 times."[9]
WHY DO THEY LET SOMEONE LIKE PAULSON ROLL BACK INTO ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION AFTER SERVING IN NIXON'S ADMINISTRATION. THIS GUY IS ALL ABOUT THE BANKS. HE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO HE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
THIS GUY SHOULD BE ASKED TO RESIGN. LOOK AT WHAT HE IS ASKING FOR.
LOOK AT HIS COMPENSATION PACKAGE.\
Kathleen @ 112:
Donna Brazille is right (now that feels pretty weird to say). What is the rush? If these banks are insolvent then let them go under. Remember sell high, buy low? Might as well buy low and save taxpayer dollars. Save the rest to pump up the FDIC and protect Americans.
Come to think of it, this is not even really Bush's problem to solve. Bush is a lame duck. It's for the next President to fix. Let's not handcuff Obama with some piece of $hit legislation rushed through in the middle of the night. We've had too much of that crap already.
Screw Paulson - let the Fed absorb the bad debt if they're in such a bloody rush.
Everyone keeps saying, in unison, "First save the system (with a $700 billion gift from the taxpayers). Ask questions later." I say, first we should examine if the system warrants saving. It appears to be broken. But then, a lot of millionaires would go broke, and we can't have that. Better to nickel and dine the taxpayers to death, isn't it? (Fuck them: they're NOBODIES.)
The way to keep the rich supporting the GOP is with a $700 billion bribe, shortly before election day. Don't worry, you wont have to pay it, your grand children will. Nice.
Listen, if McCain admits to having 13 cars, that means he has 25. If he admits to having 7 houses it means he has 20...and an island! He needs to go to that island, set up a hammock between two palm trees, lay there and let Cindy sit and comb his hair, like she says she likes to do and relax his old bones. Not attempt to do a job he has proven this week he is unable to do.
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