Bailout: Deal Or Trap?
Apparently, there's a tentative deal for a revised bailout plan on the Hill, and lawmakers now hope to get it ready for an announcement before Asian markets open on Monday and a quick vote.
According to Reuters today, the deal involves:
- A structured layout where $300 billion would be allocated immediately, $100 billion would be reserved under presidential discretion for later allocation if needed and the remaining $350 billion under only the say-so of Congress.
- Taxpayers would gain stock warrants in companies using bailout money - an asset stake and an opportunity for future profits to recompense any federal outlay.
- Executives would have their Golden Parachutes cut off if their company used bailout money.
- There will be an oversight board and management also would be under close scrutiny by Congress' investigative arm and an independent inspector general.
- the government could use its power as the owner of mortgages and mortgage-backed securities to help more struggling homeowners modify the terms of their home loans.
- "In the end, House Republicans won support for a provision that would create a privately funded insurance program for mortgage-backed securities, congressional aides said."
- "Democrats jettisoned proposals that would have put money into a trust fund for affordable housing and would have allowed judges to alter the terms of mortgages for bankrupt borrowers, according to aides."
Of course, there's a possibility that Dems will fall into a trap of the GOP's making. Republican talking heads are still urging the GOP to walk away from the bailout or various provisions of the deal. They're simply playing politics with imminent financial disaster, aware that most people are outraged that taxpayers are having to bail out fat-cats at banks and investment houses and fanning that outrage in an attempt to tie Bush and the bailout to Democrats before the November elections. They're hoping, in their zeal, that people will forget that it was Republican pushes for deregulation and lack of oversight (the "free" market) that caused the problem in the first place.
Meanwhile, John McCain's campaign is getting ready to jump on whichever bandwagon looks like it will travel farthest. Today on the talking heads shows, "at the same time that Sen. John McCain was saying that he didn't deserve credit for getting a economic bailout package to the brink of completion, his campaign's chief strategist was arguing that the Senator played an integral role".
And it's still uncertain that House leaders can drum up enough votes to pass the bill over Republican obstructionism for petty political ends. It's telling that they expect to get their Republican support from those not facing re-election this year - in other words, those Republicans who can vote for sense instead of political grandstanding.
So yes, it might become a political trap for Dems. But what else to do? Play the same game as the Republicans and watch the economy go down? This isn't just about big numbers, it's about people's lives. Even if the people who would all be affected don't quite get that, no matter how unpleasant it is to save the fat-cats asses, the fat-cats have put us in the position where it's unavoidable if we're to save our own asses too. The bailout may not work - there are many who say it won't - but in the meantime, Dems will have tried to shield common folk from the massive social and lifestyle fallout of a crash. That's worth doing, in my view, even at this horrendous price tag.
Crossposted from Newshoggers
The idea that no bailout means crashed economy is just fear mongering. No matter what happens, the economy is going down. The only question is whether to give another trillion away to corporate socialism. The Dems should be following the president and his party on this, not leading. It is a trap.
Charlie Brown, meet Lucy and the football.
A pdf of the full text of the bill is available on CNN.com. I'm waiting for someone smarter than me to dissect it though.
Is This What They Mean by ‘The New Marxism?’
Actually they get a 20% cut off their millions of stolen dollars.
This is all bullshit.....why don't the people get to read and vote on this? Oh yeah we're no longer a democracy of the people we are a facist republic of the government.
AND 100 BILLION FOR THE PREZ ON HIS WHIM...NO HOW NO WAY!!
Republicans are currently trying to see if they feel generous enough to give 70 - 100 votes in the Houste.
Yup. 70 - 100. So, this will soon be the Bush / Democrat handout to Wall Street. You just watch.
Cernig, I think you are just wrong about this.
The Boston Globe (may ask for a relatively painless registration) offers a crash course for us dummies on the financial crisis and why we have to pony up the $700 billion. They offer three case studies of people who can't get credit and why that is bad.
First there is Don Castle, a probation officer:
Since buying his Lynn bungalow with no money down three years ago, Castle has used his first home like an ATM. He's refinanced twice to help pay for more than $35,000 in home improvements, including installing 24 new windows, renovating the kitchen, building a deck, and replacing the roof.
Castle had big plans to turn his second-floor attic into a huge living space by adding new wiring and insulation. But the well of cash has run dry. Several local banks and online lenders recently rejected his applications for a $20,000 home equity loan. So instead of spending his days designing a master suite, Castle, 41, took a "Get out of Debt" class at Salem State and is now looking for a part-time job.
Now that is truly sad. The bank won't loan the poor guy any more money that he can't afford to pay back, and now he can't remodel his attic. If that's not enough to convince you to spend the $700 billion, there's this:
Roberta O'Connor knew it was a tough time to start a business when in May she opened the doors to Cabin Fever, a vintage Brazilian furniture store in downtown Salem. Shortly before the shop's debut, Washington Mutual, which was seized by federal regulators on Thursday, cut a home equity line she planned to use for inventory and daily business operations, despite her high credit score.
So the 35-year-old mother of two tapped into her savings and ran up $40,000 in credit card charges to cover the gap. But nothing could have prepared her for the recent financial meltdown on Wall Street and Main Street, when sales at her business dropped 40 percent over the past two weeks alone. "Everyone's in panic mode and people aren't spending," said O'Connor, a former marketer.
With her inventory starting to run low, O'Connor is considering applying for a small business loan to finance a $50,000 buying trip to Brazil. Watching the collapse of major financial institutions over the past two weeks has only made O'Connor more nervous about getting access to capital.
So, unless the taxpayers do something about it, Ms. O'Connor won't be able to borrow $50,000 to go to Brazil and acquire inventory that nobody wants to buy. Economic catastrophe!
Finally, there's this:
For once, [Don] Chiofaro is not rushing to break ground on a bold new development in downtown Boston. That's because he knows the timing for a large project could not be worse. Construction costs are sky high. Commercial banks and other lenders are in turmoil. And accessing a loan is more difficult than it's been in two decades.
"It's impossible to break ground right now," said Chiofaro, who is waiting out the financial tumult before proceeding with a planned development at the site of the Harbor Garage along the city's waterfront.
So Don Chiofaro can't borrow $100 million dollars to build a new housing at a time when unsold houses and condominiums are blighting neighborhoods from Long Island to Lompoc. We've got to fix that problem! We've got to loan Don the money!
Or maybe, just maybe, the time has come for Americans to stop borrowing more and more money to fuel consumption that they can't afford. And maybe the banks have figured that out -- too late for them, but that's not my problem -- and that's why they aren't making loans any more to people who can't pay them back. And maybe, just maybe, we should finally come to our senses. This is a feature, not a bug. It's not a problem to be solved, but rather one to be endured. Under the circumstances, we can make much better use of the $700 billion.
Or, to sum up, what a crack addict needs is not more crack. And the U.S. economy doesn't need more credit.
They should have told us the cost of getting Bush out of office was 700 billion, we would have paid it on week two.
Rosa Brooks of the LAT snarky comments
If the Repubs are involved, it's a trap!
/ackbar
ckerst @ 10:
Back in 2001, most of the world would have chipped in too.
$400 billion available upfront? At $50 billion per month (as per Paulson), that floats the plan for 8 months... but I'm sure Paulson/Bush, will use that up before Jan 20. This continues to be a bad plan. I'm writing my congress members again. Maybe they didn't notice but the sky didn't fall on Friday and it isn't going to fall tomorrow. I truly believe a vote for this plan is a vote against an Obama presidency. How can they be so foolish???
Just Say No!
i'm curious to see a poll of our representatives messages from the people they represent, pro/con bailout.
are there normal people calling them who are for it?
not that that would matter to most of them.
This plan has no assistance in it for the only people who actually made an investment, in a house.
Nothing.
The assistance appears to be exclusively for those who no longer wish to risk their own money by purchasing overpriced contracts, but prefer to "invest" taxpayer money in scheme to encourage them to risk their own money.
Hoover tried the same thing just before he went out of office.
All it did was make it tougher for the next guy to solve that actual problem. Oh, and provide enough money for the fat cats to stay fat through the long slow miserable recovery.
What hasn't been a trap by these criminals. And it started by Bush's summer long vacation in 2001.
Cheney "designing" the energy task force policy. Give me a break. Give me a god damn break.
$100 billion would be reserved under presidential discretion for later allocation if needed
Are you KIDDING me?!!
Whether Bush or Obama, why the hell should the President be given $100 Billion to do as he pleases, when he pleases? !!
And to give this power to BUSH?!!! He doesn't even need to issue a signing statement to steal the money for himself and his cronies!
This is an economic crisis of choice. These lenders have the ability to renegotiate these contracts themselves. If enough people are defaulting to run your business into the ground then LOWER THE INTEREST RATES TO A FIXED RATE THAT THE CUSTOMER CAN AFFORD. If a company is too stupid or greedy to look out for its own interests; LET IT FAIL. If the CEO is that nearsighted and stupid; his company deserves to go belly up. We are rewarding dumb business decisions from incompetent CEOs.
No!
No fucking giveaways -- meaning no purchase of any asset for more than current fair market value.
Damn it. This is theft in plain sight.
It's guaranteed to ensure a third term for Bush policies.
Britisher @ 19:
I bet Bush uses the money to start a war with Iran.
of course it was a trap. the repugs that opposed it get credit. they actually give boosh discretion over $100Billion? WHAT A FUCKING BUNCH OF COWARDLY ASSHATS THE DEMS ARE! FUCK PELOSI AND REID!
The very few are winning - They are not stupid, nor are they incompetent.
The very few only care for the power of the control-of-the-control of... wealth.
The very few are educated, intelligent, efficient, and successful.
The very few have intelligently, efficiently, successfully transferred the wealth to themselves.
America is not the very few. We, the other 99.x%, are America.
The wealth they stole, was our wealth. It is now their wealth. Their power.
We gave up securities, liberties, freedoms, so the very few could complete the theft.
We still are. . . Without protest, without revolt. . . With our children.
And now they blatantly come demanding $700 billion, (to over $1 trillion,) more -
To pay for their ‘investment’ crimes - Do you think anyone will stop them?
Are “The 32 Words” still in the bailout??? If so - It is a trap.
...a trap induced by blackmail.
The Shock Doctrine: These people know how to create and benefit from "shocks" to the system.
The DINO's like to be pragmatic in negotiations.
Rethugs define pragmatic as MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.
DINO's define pragmatic as YOUR WAY.
So yes, it might become a political trap for Dems. But what else to do?
----------------------------------
It's not that hard. You privately tell 50 to 75 Dems to vote against the bill, forcing the Scum-Suckers to come aboard or see it go down in flames. Democrats can not let the Scum-suckers make them solely responsible for this bill.
No fucking way. This is FASCISISM pure and simple.
And a special fuck you to Barney Frank. I never thought he would turn on us. The others? Well, I expected it.
Goddam Barney. Et tu Brutus?
And the Military Industrial Complex profits once again...
With All Eyes on the Bailout, House Passes Trillion-Dollar Defense Bill
Will it ever stop...
jaja @ 25:
I thought financial doom and gloom was coming if Bush didn't get his money by Friday.
Friday came and went... sounds of crickets... the World did not end....
Oh silly me. Bush meant next Friday.
The bickering in Congress continues. Next Friday comes and goes.
The grass is still green... birds still chirp... the leaves start to turn brown.
Bush says more scary things.
Next... Next... Friday comes and goes.
WE NEED BETTER ADVICE.
After the past eight years most people in the world -- with a significant and pathetic exception of a significant number of the American public -- understand that the Republican party is completely capable of the moral depravity that would be required for them to choose global economic collapse over cooperation.
On a side note Nicholas Kristof brings a sobering lead to his piece in the Sunday Times -- one worthy of serious consideration...
Mike @ 24:
IT'S STILL A TRAP.
And if the dems vote for it, they'll lose congressional seats, because the repugs will go after them as either socialists or elitists or liberal wimps. I've just written to all three of my congress people. What else can we do right now?
Dear Senator - I urge you to vote AGAINST the bailout plan as it currently stands. Please do not fall into a Bush/Dems trap. Democratic congressional seats will be lost if you agree to a plan that makes $400 billion available upfront. At $50 billion per month (as per Paulson), that floats the plan for 8 months… but I’m sure Paulson/Bush will use that up before Jan 20. This continues to be a bad plan. I truly believe a vote for this plan is a vote against an Obama presidency. Listen to the people. Do NOT vote for this plan. Thank you.
Mike @ 24:
This is what I want to know more than anything. Will anyone tell us?
For Fucks sake! They are supposed to work for us, not against us.
Are those 32 words still in there???????????????????????????/ ASK!!!!!!!
- A structured layout where $300 billion would be allocated immediately, $100 billion would be reserved under presidential discretion for later allocation if needed and the remaining $350 billion under only the say-so of Congress.
Nonsense.
"Presidential discretion." So, with Bush in charge, it's $400 billion. Period.
And for the remainder, is it included in the bill that the money is laid out, but Congress can say no? Because that means the money is laid out, AND CONGRESS CAN'T SAY NO! They won't have a legislative veto, and if they say no later, the president can veto that no.
So, $750 billion. Exactly what was asked for.
The Dems should have a counter-attack ready. If the GOP starts claiming that the Dems robbed main street, the Dems reply, that come January we'll introduce a surtax on income over $250K per year and add a per financial transaction tax (e.g., a 1/4 or a percent) on Wall Street. This additional income will be used to repay the American taxpayer, with interest, for the bailout. And the taxes will be repealed once the damage is repaired. That proposal will be immensely popular—putting it to the fat cats—and the only GOP response will be to start bawling about "class war" and how unfair it is to tax the rich people that created the crisis.
Charlie @ 3:
You could provide a link.
Some of us have been warning about the collasp of the economy for many years, frankly thier isn't enought of us who care to do anything about it, We must prepare to get out of USA and regroup. The media will never let up, they will tell you Fema will only kill of the weak and the upper class will be fine with that cause they are souless. Then they will come for the Rich. Too bad we couldn't all work together.
If there is no oversight by ELECTED representatives (who they might be is another matter), then this should be viewed as another step in the increasingly quick slide into fascism (a governance model in which corporatist -- i.e., special interests especially corporations -- hold power in lieu of the citizen) for America, something that should be obvious to even the die-hard, jingoistic flag-waver.
This is one of the bullet points in CNN article here.
The phrase under "certain circumstances" is of most concern.
I SMELL A RAT. I smelled a rat to begin with, I still do.
- Executives would have their Golden Parachutes cut off if their company used bailout money.
So, they get their golden parachutes, but if they steal even more, we'll take the parachute away.
Okay, son, you may eat one cookie. But if I catch you taking the rest of the cookies, we're cutting off access to the cookie jar.
Okay, dad, I'll just have to make sure to eat them all now then.
You don't fix bad debt with more debt! Let me repeat that You don't fix bad debt with more debt!
This is just taking our 90 degree vertical death trajectory and giving it a ghost of chance downward 45 degree angle. With any luck well scrape the runway and get caught by the net before falling of the aircraft carrier into the water.
Yes,the taxpayers get equity,but no ability to vote their shares,it's a scam,you don't buy stock without the ability to VOTE your shares!!!!!!
Why aren't we restoring The Glass-Segal act, a law passed in the 1930s that mandated a separation of lending and investment banking? It was repealed in 1999. Now, Congress is discussing reinstating the act though the NY Times calls the odds of reinstatement "very unlikely."
This is another bullet point. These are executive branch people, except for the Fed Chief and he answers to who?
I smell another rat.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader Debate What If) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 42:
Let me see if I have the "basic math" right:
--$300B--now
--$100B--Bush's cut
--$350B--Congress' play money
_________
--$750B total
-----
Now is it just me, but isn't $750B more than $700B?? Now, I realize it's only a $50B difference, but...
What's $50B between politicians and bankers?...
ckerst @ 10:
That's the bestest quote I have ever seen.
McCain will wait until after the election to decide which side he's on.
Bend over, America, your leaders want to help you.
This bailout may be the October surprise. Just came a week early.
Listen closely to the escalated and inflammatory Iran talks the next few weeks they may still have time to pre-emptively attack Iran. This morning on Face the Nation Senator Obama said "Iran is developing an nuclear weapon program", I have never heard Obama go this far by repeating unsusbtantiated claims. Listen very closely.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 49:
Excellent
Democrats caved. Unfortunately it does nothing to actually deal with the real problem. It does nothing to shore up the real asset loss of middle class Americans. It does shore up the potential/imminent future loss to banks and financial institutions. (i.e. it is a bailout against future loss, it is not a bailout against existing or past loss).
Democrats have once again proven my point, which that they are Republican enablers. They are not an opposition party. The party should simply be destroyed. This is just disgusting.
The insurance part of this is completely moronic. It's a way for Republicans to claim that losses will be shouldered by the industry itself over the long term, which is complete bunk. The FSLIC was underfunded and failed to deal with the S&L disaster. The FDIC insures at best 2% of deposits, so banks really aren't insured except by the taxpayer. And this plan is no different. They're fleecing us for their buddies.
The left and the right should start a campaign to vote against all incumbents. Naturally party loyalists will not want to risk this in a general election, but it feasible to do this in a primary election. Vote against any incumbent who has voted for this bill.
Its the October surprise.
The lobbyists never lose.
Impeachment taken off the table, despite the most massive, slam dunk evidence ever seen.
Let the crimes slide. Why?
Bailouts, correctly interpetid in any language, as "extorsion" by the corporate elite.
Pay up, or we will be forced to shut it down. They are talking about putting "limits" on bonuses? LIMITS??
How about NO BONUSES whatsoever? How about severe fines and penalities?
Let the crimes continue to slide.
The legal system has been subverted. Now, it's the financial system.
Wallstreet is now jacking off, like a pedafile caught on video news report, that escaped easily from the cops hidden outside in the unmarked vehicles. They will continue on, to do what they know best, predating on the inexperienced.
Filthy rich Wallstreet predatores = 1
Sacrificing middle class taxpayers = 0
The game wasn't even close. The refs were using solid gold, diamond studded whistles. Most don't even know how many whistles they own.
Why not just give each person in the US a share of the 700 billion? It would net my family close to $16,000 and be enough to pay off my mortgage. The money would be injected back into Wall Street by people paying off credit cards and overdue bills.
Of course that would aid the little guy, why do that when we can force inflation to go nuts and give Wall Street a nice pre-holiday bonus.
Can't wait for milk to be $10 a gallon, brought to you by Bush and the Republicans.
It seems like Crooks and Liars has fallen into the "I don't like the bill, but what other choice do we have?" trap.
In the last few days I have heard such brilliant and honorable thinkers as Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and John Boehner suggest that if we don't pass the bailout NOW, we won't be able to get car loans, college loans, credit cards, will lose our life savings, and may not get our paychecks last week. How fucking stupid do they think people are?
Credit will be tightened up, but it always does in a recession. If you have good credit, you have nothing to worry about. If you have bad credit, the bailout does nothing to help you, in fact it will artificially raise housing prices and make it harder to buy a house. In a nutshell, the bubble was caused by interest rates being too low, and housing prices too high, leading to too many houses being built and too many people buying houses they couldn't afford. Prices need to come down, before people really start buying again.
If we do nothing, the recession will be tough, but will last a year or two. If we pass the bailout, it will be five years or more before we even start to dig ourselves out, the depression may last a decade or more.
Call your representatives now, tell them to just say no to corporate welfare!
stop the Billionaire Bailout!
Capitol Hill Switchboard: 202-224-3121
Here is a good rundown of the causes and effects of the crisis
Bailout Reader: http://mises.org/story/3128
I'm not exactly sure what Wall Street is asking me as a taxpayer to buy?
What exactly is a "Toxic Asset"?
Why is it so important that I buy this?
Why do I need to buy it by last Friday?
All I have been told is financial gloom and doom will befall me if I do not purchase this.
I'm thinking this is some kind of insurance product.
I (Joe Taxpayer) will pay Wall Street $750 billion dollars; in exchange, Wall Street promises not to destroy the economy.
I don't know that I am comfortable doing business with these people.
This just doesn't sound right.
I bet; if all of us got together.
We could mail all of our payments in a month late.
I bet that would get their attention.
Well, this clandestine, partisan, "fuck the citizen" set of negotiations should move a substantial number of American voters to realize that the gig is up. I'm no expert on the American constitution but I think that I read at one time -- probably in one of Gore Vidal's books -- that there is provision in the constitution to remove ALL three branches - the Prez, the Supreme Court and Congress (both houses) -- if 2/3 of the state assemblies pass a bill to that effect (might be a little more complicated). If that won't float, then how about a group of citizens (but only if the 1st amendment is alive and kicking, a dubious premise perhaps) to congregate somewhere near DC and march on all three buildings and literally turf the anti-democrate, corporatist fascists into the Potomac and establish another Consitutional Assembly in Philadelphia. What else is a citizen, the sole source of legitimacy in a democratcy, to do?
Orangutan. @ 30:
Thanks for the link
Follow the Money made during the Bush administration...oil...defense....banking..CCHhiing....Mission Accomplished!
"We must speak the truth about terror." -- George W. Bush
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
– George W. Bush (August 5, 2004)
This plan is full of false hopes an outright lies. Notice how the language is geared in such a way as to make it more appealing to the taxpayer. I love how they say "taxpayers" will get stock warrants from those companies and have an opportunity to gain from any future profits to offset federal outlays. How can anyone make a claim like that? There is no certainty that there even will be any future profits and if there are the taxpayer will never see them because the Government will be doing all of the dealing.
Kathleen @ 52:
Obama is starting to sound a lot like the New Century shitheads. Venezuela a "rogue nation"? Fuck off. Threaten Iran, a democratic sovereign nation? Fuck you.
- “Democrats jettisoned proposals that would have put money into a trust fund for affordable housing and would have allowed judges to alter the terms of mortgages for bankrupt borrowers, according to aides.”
This doesn't make sense to me. Does the above mean that democrats let go of ways to further protect regular people. Why aren't they screaming, especially now, that it was republican deregulation that started this downhill motion, and that the GOP is STILL playing politics?????
Also, is someone going to come up with an itemized list of why the bailout is figured at $700B?
upchuck @ 59:
What would get their attention is mass suicide on the steps of the Jefferson Memorial. Us oldtimers just show up with our "water" bottles, hold hands and fall asleep.
The dems fell for Bush's scaremongering once again. Now Bush's buddies get 700 billion dollars, and it wont help the economy one single bit.
My bet is that most Republicans vote against it, then run ads blaming Democrats for supporting the "Bush-Democrat bailout".
So sick.
BPC @ 58:
Good post. Its always been my opinon that there has been to much easy credit out there for just about anyone to get. The real estate bubble really made it easy and now, the banks and other lenders who lent out that credit, knowing full well that many people couldn't pay it back are going under. From the top on down to the last American citizen there has been nothing but a constant orgy of greed and gluttony and now no one wants to pay the price for it. Thus bailout will only may the situation that much worse down the road.
CoIntelPro for Pronktastic Victory Over SCLM, DIEBOLD, ESS and SEQUOIA! @ 23:
Exactly. Lame ass fucking losers who only care about their own investments or some such. Ruling class. Fuck us.
Fuck them both.
This is my question about this issue: are those provisions meaningless?
The way Naomi Klein puts it, any bill that passes in Congress will benefit Wall St. and not the average person.
Neo-classical secular humanist @ 64:
I've been kinda wondering if this wasn't a cover to authorize the release of cash so that Bush can start a war with Iran.
Please study the Federal Reserve System. It's origins. Etc.
Orangutan. @ 30:
No. Not until the country is completely bankrupt.
So yes, it might become a political trap for Dems. But what else to do? Play the same game as the Republicans and watch the economy go down? This isn’t just about big numbers, it’s about people’s lives. Even if the people who would all be affected don’t quite get that, no matter how unpleasant it is to save the fat-cats asses, the fat-cats have put us in the position where it’s unavoidable if we’re to save our own asses too. The bailout may not work - there are many who say it won’t - but in the meantime, Dems will have tried to shield common folk from the massive social and lifestyle fallout of a crash. That’s worth doing, in my view, even at this horrendous price tag.
I confess, I'm somewhat torn here.
Maybe yes, we should let the disaster come. (If it's really coming. I don't buy any Bushevik dire warnings, personally.) And then pull together to clean it up. Deal after deal after deal in the early 19th Century kept slavery alive, but contained, in order to avoid a civil war. Eventually, we had the Civil War.
We can't keep behaving this way. Our country is being slowly -- though not all that slowly -- murdered by this illegitimate regime and its congressional enablers. We like to think we're the greatest country, the world's only superpower, where everyone wants to live if only they could. Please. Getting slightly ill here ruins your life. Our technology is way behind that of other industrialized countries. We manufacture nothing, and all we sell is debt. The list goes on and on.
Perhaps a collapse and depression is what we need to slap us in the collective face, pull together, and fix things for real.
Perhaps. I'm torn.
The Dems screwed us over in favor of the international bankers who own the private Federal Reserve and the banks in this country.
Cernig writes:
Thanks for explaining to us dummies how the courageous Democrats are saving the economy by voting for this heist. And just how many Republican House members do you think there are who are retiring this year and, therefore, "can vote for sense"? As you know, except for those who are retiring, all House incumbents are "facing re-election this year."
Think about the Patriot Act after 9/11. That's a good comparison.
Our Bill of Rights was taken away then. Now our country's monetary system is being taken away.
BPC @ 58:
Excellent post. The corporate welfare needs to end. If tough economic times come from the lack of a "bailout" rushed by Bushevik scare tactics, well, so be it. We'll pull out of it.
If any citizen of a democracy has to scurry around in fear in an attempt to find out or to keep track of what decisions are being made by their representatives behind closed doors, then it should be pretty obvious that the underlying social contract, i.e., the constitution, has no connection with reality. When that happens, the citizenry is collectively psychotic and that will unleash forces that know no constraints. Another Fort Sumter likely isn't very far off.
The private Federal Reserve that took over our government in 1913 issue the liquidity at our expense.
Jo @ 29:
Yes, a very special fuck you to Barney.
Goddamn piece of shit.
If someone is caught inside a store stealing a shirt,or a pair of pants,he will be taken to a police station, fingerprinted,and possibly jailed for theft.
Here we have crooks at the Wall Street who mismanaged stockholders assets,filled their pockets with money,and when they did ruin the US and World economy using schemes that avoided accountablity are coming now asking Uncle Sam to bail them out,by presenting 2 (8 1/2 x 11) sheets of paper submitted by Secretary of Treasury to the Congress asking for 700 billion dollars,without telling Congress how did they come with this figure of 700 billions.
None of these crooks is facing accountability and punishment.
Someone has to be responsible for the collapse of the markets.
This is not a thing that can happen overnight.
Someone was not watching while the water was seeping under the foundation.
Before government starts writing big checks,government better have an acocuntability system that works,before the whole economy goes under.
Some people have said these criminals are planning to destroy this countries currency. Lou Dobbs reported that they have plans to merge our country's economy with that of Mexico's and Canada's in a North American Union. Look it up on YouTube. And then institute a new currency called the Amero to rival that of the European Union's Euro. You can say this is crazy. But did you ever think our Bill of Rights would be taken away. Wake up and do some research. Get uncomfortable if that's what it takes.
Here's the truth and history of the situation if anyone wants to know. It's a three hour class on those that control the money supply... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
How many hearings did we get to find out about drugs in baseball? What the fuck --- a little time and light could not hurt. The dems got a tin-ear on this one.
All sides of the equation, except for savers, are the cause for this. Tons of cheap credit belong to Greenspan. Drastically reduced qualifications courtesy of Democrats led to people who never should have gotten a loan, getting one. Republicans for deregulating esoteric financial instruments, i.e. mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps. All of our elected officials who wanted us to keep on binge eating, spending, getting taxed so they can have their pet projects. Americans are debtors. Corporations are debtors. The government is a debtor.
This entire country is based on credit and no one wants to talk about their role in simply over spending and over consuming. That's why we have a huge re-distribution of wealth from the future to today in the form of debt, debt, debt. A huge national debt that is only paid for by future generations. Stealing from them so we can have our toys.
We would do well to default on the debt to fuck those who refuse to pay their own way. Just like the future generation has the right to do that to us. It's a total lack of personal responsibility and there is sufficient blame to go around.
Except for those who save, invest, have lived within their means. And now the majority is going to steal from them whether they are rich or they are middle class. We're gonna steal from them, and we're gonna steal from the future generations to make them pay for our bad choices.
I feel like McCain's first wife must have felt when he threw her over. Abused and abandoned by the very person I had supported and thought supported me. Through thick and thin, I stood by my Dems. I voted Dem. I waited for years for something good to happen. Ever since 2006 I have gotten a sinking feeling that SOMEBODY'S BEEN FOOLIN' AROUND BEHIND MY BACK.
It's over. This is war. See you in court or on the battlefield you scum sucking fuckers.
And remember hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
oh and the only industry doing outstandingly well with tons of capital and assets are the military industrial complex companies. they're making money hand over fist. kinda make you wonder? all those democrats who supported the war. Joe Biden supported the war, and hasn't said his support for the war wasn't a mistake. He said it was a mistake to trust the competency of the administration to carry out the war correctly. Not that war was a mistake.
They're all the same, really. They're all on totally the wrong, big spending, expensive, useless, wasteful, track.
"Let me issue and control a Nation's money and I care not who makes its laws".
"Retired management consultant Gaylon Ross Sr, author of Who's Who of the Global Elite, has been tipped from a private source that the combined wealth of the Rockefeller family in 1998 was approx (US) $11 trillion and the Rothschilds (U.S.) $100 trillion."
Rothschilds & Rockefellers - Trillionaire Terrorists Of The World
http://winnipeg.indymedia.org/item.php?23832S
They own the banks.
They own and run the Federal Reserve System.
Their actual wealth, since the 1998 "guess", is ...UNKNOWN.
They ARE the ultimate, "the buck stops here", receivers of the bailouts.
What Barney Frank said is true. If there is no credit, our economy and country will tank faster than the Titantic.
Where the fuck is the text of the bill. Do they even give us the respect to release this to the public.
"My inclination is to support it." -Obama
Of course you are, Senator.
Robert Rubin and Goldman Sachs are pulling those strings...Hard.
CNN is saying the text should be up at... http://financialservices.house.gov/ I can't get it to load though.
Orangutan. @ 91:
No. Not until they're within hours or minutes of voting on this shit.
MsJoanne @ 90:
Credit yes. This is BAD credit. This is credit given to those who could not pay it back. I'm not talking about Joe Schmo and his goddam mortgage. I'm talking about us bailing out fat cats on wall street who are laughing, LAUGHING at us.
trap...
bushies neocon cronies had to figure out a way to pilfer as much of the american taxpayers $$ before they leave office, especially now that they can no longer count on $$ for iraq.
don't let the pigs feed at the trough again, time to send them packing once and for al!!
Orangutan. @ 92:
Won't load for me, either.
Orangutan. @ 91:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/Sunday_talks_bailout/index....
Jo @ 95:
I agree with what you are saying to a point. There has to be credit to be made available. If there is no money to get, the economy will completely shut down. People cannot get credit to refi their homes. Businesses cannot get credit on they need to operate.
It sucks all around no doubt, but there has to be credit, beit short or long term, and to have credit there has to be money available to be lent out.
The bailout deal is being put together by the same folks some of whom let it happen some of whom were a part of it.Anyone else feel a lack of confidence?
Financial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks
“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people’s money to settle the quarrel.” – Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, January 1837
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10359
upchuck @ 22:
If this goes through,Obama will never see a penny of it.
Well alright, this is the final straw for this old camels back!! HOW DARE THE EVIL POLITICIANS fell it's okay to walk all over us the citizens? I can't help it, I too am disillusioned and dissapointed with the whole freakin' system. I'm too old and too tired to fight the evil empire...HELP does anyone have an antidote?? for the bail out that is?
MsJoanne @ 98:
That's not the text of the bill. That is snippets that they want us to know about. That's the mainstream version of a few details. I'm talking about the 2 and a half page bill. Or however long it is now. The actual text.
Wow, I guess this post is pretty much universally disagreed with then. But its the most wingnutty of wingnuts who are most against this 'socialist" bailout proposal - when have those folk ever been right about anything? Warren Buffett was consulted by phone by Dems about this deal. I dunno, but if he's not yelling from the rooftops about it being crap then...this just might be accurate, from the UK Daily Telegraph:
So go on, everyone say "no", as long as you know the downside if you're wrong.
Here's the gamble: if the bailout works, good - if not then we're going down anyways, for multi-trillions - and an extra $700B is just icing on the cake. But if we don't try the bailout we're all definitely following the fat-cats down and an extra $700B won't scratch the surface of all that will happen. How certain are you that the bailout is bad? Enough to gamble your kids lives on? The free-market fanatics saying "we have to let the market fail" don't have a four year old dependent on their $40k a year job, I assure you.
I truly loathe that saving my 4 year old's future probably means saving rich gits first - but I'm not willing to gamble his future that the rich gits don't need saved for the sake of the rest of us. It's "give us the ransom or we kill the baby" stuff.
Regards, C
I still say "NO" to the transfer of more wealth to the Powers that Be. This is just a stop-gap measure before the election so they can find a way to install thier next "friend" in the White House.
The good news is, as soon as they've sucked out all the wealth, say, over the next six months, they may go away and leave us to lick our wounds for a while.
The good news is that we still have The Constitution of the United States of America as a fallback position. If the leaders we will soon elect (or get installed) are willing to use it as their guide in planning the restructuring of our government and finances, then I think we may be okay in the long run.
It is not the idea of America that has failed - it is the men who have bastardized it.
Here's an analysis from overseas of what is going on in America... I think it makes more sense than listening to Barney Frank blubber through his words, or Harry Reid, or Impeachment off the Table Pelosi..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ItC_nT4rS8
STEVO @ 6:
EXACTLY! Bush is leaving in Jan., the rest of the money can wait until then. REALLY, I quite insist, don't you all????
Amitola @ 106:
Sounds like John Adams would agree with you..
"All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation." -- John Adams
Orangutan. @ 91:
It's up at The Gavel, but the traffic is making it time out for me.
There's supposed to be a mirror of it here
Orangutan. @ 104:
You're right, my bad. Try this. http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-09/42631254.pdf I think it is the current one.
Who will be in charge of oversight to all of this?
Probably the same people who started the whole mess to begin with.
Cervantes @ 8:
Good catch.
One guy mortgaged to the hilt, a failing business that can't GIVE their stuff away, and a developer in an overbuilt market. Not exactly posyer children for this boondogle of a giveaway.
Credit is SUPPOSED to be hard to get. If you've got a good credit rating and a decent abount of your own cash involved and/or some equity it's never ben easier.
What a f'in crock. Call your local auto dealer about a loan, or, assuming you're not a deatbeat or mortgaged to the hilt, your local bank about home equite. Or one of the big mortgage lenders (BOA, Ditech, E-Loan, Lending Tree). They've ALL got money and they'll ALL talk turkey. Rates are even a full point lower than when I bought my house exactly ten years ago next January.
The "credit crunch" is the "credit crock" so that the financial elites can unload their mistakes on US! The Dems have caved big time and, my my, does this not prove Nader's point about how little differrence there truly is between the two major parties?
Up here in God's Country (NH CD2) we flipped blue last election, but, if he votes for this, our new rep will lose my (and a lot of other) votes.
Cervantes, thanks for the nod toward the Boston Globe articles. I'm reading them right now. It is eye-opening. However, I still don't like the blame on everyday folks for this financial crisis. It is like a running meme through all the items I've read on this matter.
It's not their faults that the CEO's of these companies got greedy and predatory. And as a result, the government is committing extortion on the American people in order to get out of this mess and to line a few pockets.
That's why I asked whether the provisions that were agreed upon were truly meaningless. I see this entire thing as an act of self-preservation.
Of all the parties involved in this mess, the American people were screwed up the behind and then some by this so-called "bail-out".
Besides telling my congressman and congresswomen to vote no on this bullshit, what else can I do? I usually don't advocate violence, but when the politicians and financiers of the world are essentially telling every last American to eat some cake, I'm ready to bring back the guillotine or at least lock these people up in San Quentin for eternity. Why are people so willing to give our money and futures away to these asshats? I am beyond pissed. Why is anyone wanting to do what the Bush Administration tells them to do? Why is neither party coming up with alternatives to this fucking disgrace of a plan? Is everyone that mentally inept? We definitely live in an idiocracy. The anger...the stupidity of our "leaders"...I am just reeling.
Where are the politicians representing the American people? Nowhere to be found because they are all bought and sold, they have their ticket punched already.
Now is the time to take a serious look at the "free market" lies which claim this economic approach is sustainable. The net effect of this model is to continue to enslave Americans in a cage of nonstop debt. Where is our Sovereign Wealth Funds like what Alaskans have? We have had all our wealth taken by the 10% who own 90%. If you have an unlevel playing field you can win any game. If you believe the Horato Alger myths I have some swamp land in Florida you will like.
The banks/savings & loans have shown once again that they are incapable of conducting a mortgage market without being greedy and corrupt. How much is enough for these people? Time to nationalize the residential mortgage market so Americans are released from non stop home mortgage debt.
The only people being bailed out are the ones scamming the system. This is not complex and it was planned from the get go i.e. Shock Doctrine - Disaster Capitalism.
Here is a Kentucky type explanation of how all this became a crisis:
Joe goes to the track and bets $2 on a horse.
Two guys standing nearby get into a discussion and Fred says to Sam, “I’ll bet you $5 that Joe wins his bet.”
Next to them are Bill and Bob. Bill says: “I’ll bet you $10 that Fred welshes on his bet if he loses.”
Next to them is Sally. Sally says: “For $3 I’ll guarantee to Bill that if Bob fails to pay off, I’ll make good on the bet.”
Sally then goes to Mary and borrows the $7 needed in case she has to ever pay off and promises to pay back $8. She doesn’t expect to every have to pay since she believes Bob will always make good. So she expects to net $2 no matter what happens to Joe.
A quick calculation indicates that there is now 2+5+10+3+7 = $27 riding on the outcome of the horse race.
(Of which only $2 is "regulated" via the paramutual betting from the race track - the rest of the "bets" have no regulation - better known as credit default swaps.)
Question how much has been “invested” in the horse race?
Wait for it:
Answer:
$50,000 by the owner of the horse who is expecting to recoup his investment from the winnings of the horse and other future deals. Everyone else is gambling, not investing.
So, when Hank Paulson and his golfing buddies go to the track and lose the rent money playing the ponies, we should pay up?
Source: http://correntewire.com/the_crisis_explained
From the Saprano's - pump and dump
A “ bust out” is a common tactic in the organized crime world where a business’s assets and lines of credit are exploited and exhausted to the point of bankruptcy. Richie and Tony profit from busting out Davey Scatino’s sporting goods store in this episode.
When confronted with any problem in life I try my best to reduce said difficulty to its simplest common denominator. First, come to a consensus as to what the problem really is. In this case there seems to be several and a number of these issues also seem to have foundations that were set decades ago.
History is repleat with societies that built fortunes only to lose them by debasing their medium of exchange. Rome had begun with a curency of gold and silver. It built huge armies that conquered all in its path. When all was said and done, its currency was made of copper or other worthless metals clad with gold or silver and its armies stretched to its limits. Sound familiar?
1913 was a major turning point in our history. The creation of the Federal Reserve Wilson would remark after leaving office, was the greatest mistake of his career. A system of debt was created which allowed nine dollars to be lent for every one taken in. Add to this ponzi scam human nature. As I recall, greed is still considered one of the seven deadly sins as well as mans avarice.
Who to blame and what to do? Perhaps the answer may well be found in what our more knowledgable founders had conceived. A U.S. Treasury with dollars backed by real hard assets in gold and silver rather than the ability to flip a switch and print ever more dollars. As for human nature, I doubt that mankind will ever learn. He may learn lessons from past mistakes, but when the will of the majority is taken from them and placed in the hands of the few. Well, just remember the history of Rome. Only this this time, when in Rome, don’t do as the romans did.
How much humanity does our president have left ? I
sn't he a religious man ?
Where was the leadership that he promised during his first presidential run ?
I am tired of this deceitful web of lies and the fear. I cannot stand it anymore.
I give up. The white flag is up mr president. You got us, we give up.
Let us all convert to your brand of delusion.
Sadly,
k
I am pretty much fed freekin up, of hearing N. Pelosi, on the news saying "The party is over".
The party SHOULD have been over a long time ago, mandatorily by law, with IMPEACHMENTS.
The party CONTINUES on, with bailouts handed out like hors dourves at the door.
When's the next phase of the party start?
The rich are partying like it's 1994.
It's 2008. Do you know how many homes you own?
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 114:
Exactly. In the bad old days if you would have walked into a bank with the kind of "credit" these yahoos were using you would have been escorted out by the security guard. It's one thing for someone to ask for something crazy, it's quite another to give it to them.
I heard the reason for the EXTREME NEED TO GET THIS DONE RIGHT AWAY is that it's the end of the fiscal year on Tuesday and it has to do with how the money is clocked. So let's just ask them to hold off on this deal to Wednesday. If the universe is still standing, we give 'em the money.
I long for a day when the truth sets him free, because he has caused enough carnage in our name. For the love of God mr. president, please stop killing us with your lies and your utter lack care for those around us near and far that deserved better. I can't help but cry, because our continued delusion in the belief that a rich white man will solve all our problems. There is little time you said, in order to avoid this financial crisis, well tell me, wasn't your job to steer the ship out of harms way ?
With a heavy heart,
k
A very large majority of Americans didn't want this bail out, but since we are no longer a nation represented by the people for the people we're stuck with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcZSh1diQRQ
Here's part of a solution based on the experience of Abraham Lincoln...
"The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will become matters of practical administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity." ~ Abraham Lincoln
As it currently stands the government gave its power to "create, issue, and circulate all the currency" over to a privately held firm known as The Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve takes the responsibility of running our economy and controlling the money supply and hence the inflation/deflation rates and in exchange for this service we pay them interest on the money they create, issue, and circulate. Does that make sense.
The bottom line is more leaders in our society need to educate themselves on the monetary policy of this country. The media doesn't understand it. The elected Representatives don't for the most part. And those that do understand it, too often use that knowledge to exclusively benefit themselves and those in on the game to fleece the American society. More bloggers/journalists need to step up and take responsibility to spread the necessary knowledge on the Monetary Policy and Federal Reserve.
In other words we can't trust Alan Greenspan/Ben Barneke/Hank Paulson to have our best interests in mind anymore. They don't. Paul O'Neill was replaced with Henry Paulson because O'Neil wasn't playing along with the Bush corruption. So bush got someone who'd play with the good ol' boys club. Hence we have Paul O'Neill's book.. The Price of Loyalty ...where he lays out the criminal nature and desire to attack Iraq etc etc. Great book.
We need a journalist class to step up and fill the void of the military based/corporate/crap media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcZSh1diQRQ
Explains the hurried schemes.
John Amato is playing politics with the bailout. Look, whether this bill passes or not, we're all still fucked. Anyone who thinks ANY bill is going to rescue the economy is in denial. Let's look at some realities that aren't being address:
a) Where is this money going to come from?
b) Does anyone think $300B to start or even $700B in toto is going to be enough to bail out this mess?
c) Does anyone think that this is the end of it?
Well, here are my answers, for what they're worth:
a) It's going to be conjured out of thin air, because no foreign country is going to continue to finance our debt indefinitely. We already have a $9,000,000,000,000+ (that's Trillion, folks) deficit, soon to shoot to $11T or more. So when I say "conjured out of thin air", that means you and I, or at least those who choose to pay their taxes, will be paying for it. It means the value of the dollar will plummet as we pump more debt into the treasury and debase the currency to where we will become the next Peso. Either way, it means it's going to cost the American, and it will be painful, FOR US.
b) Even if they got the $700B that was initially bandied about (which was really a $700B slush fund that could be replenished, but that's old news) we don't even really know the true extent of this. $700B might just be the down payment in the overall cost of this mess, so they pass a crappy bill this week that they rush through that saddles the US taxpayer in debt for 10-20 years, no problem, but what do we do next week? Pass a bill ten times larger? What about the week after that?
c) This crisis is not done. It is only getting started. The proposals being put forth are untenable.. This is a system broken beyond repair. The only solution is for the US to go insolvent and start over from scratch, like Russia did. The silver lining is that if the Russian government can go into default and emerge ten years later on top of the world again, so can we, but not with the current government we have in place, and not with the same political climate, and certainly not with the same politicians. We need a clean sweep. We need to literally throw the bums out, make arrests and put people on trial. We need war crimes trials for the Bush regime if we are to be a responsible part of the world community. This country has to re-invent itself if it is to remain irrelevant. I know it eventually will, but it will take lots of time, and it will be very difficult for the regular folks.
Yet, meanwhile, all John Amato can do is sit on the sidelines and snark about Republicans playing politics. That's useless. I have respect for the guy as I've been a C&L regular for years, but all you are doing is playing the same political game. You are distracting people from the real issue, which is that they need to divest themselves of dollars and dollar denominated financial instruments and put it into gold, silver and other currencies.
ANYTHING BUT THE DOLLAR.
I am a registered Dem. If I lived in Alabama and had a choice between Shelby and a Democrat that supports what the Dems are doing right now I would vote Shelby with no hesitation.
I am calling each and every one of the incumbents in my state/locality and threatening to vote them out if they support this bailout.
This is theft of our democracy. If this happened in a less fearful country there would be blood in the streets right now.
More people need to study and disseminate information. People naturally look to leaders to lead them.
America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Lucky thing is we have never been able to spread information with such ease as we can today. There is reason for hope. An educated society is the only thing necessary. And not everyone has to study it. But those who wish to be educated need to have access to the information and they'll tell the others what is necessary to know. Unfortunately we are all confused because the media industry and the bush administration make it their goal to confuse us. Access to information is limited. Even here. Look at the school system. Do they teach monetary policy there? No. They say leave that all up to us. Or else we'll cut your funding under the "Leave No Child Behind" legislation. I'm just saying. I'm dying here. But I know this country and the people are worth fighting for.
Why is the compromise on the Wall Street bailout not helping those homeowners who are about to lose their homes. Where is the language that was originally in the bill that gave them some relief, will help them reorganize their loans? What is being proposed now is left to the banks and Wall Street to determine whether they will give homeowners a break. That won't work. Put the original safe guards in for homeowners or vote against this bill. The bill without this is not acceptable. Obama should not let this slide. He has stated time and time again he wants this language included. He must speak out strongly about this. Without giving homeowners who are about lose their homes some help in renegotiating their mortgages this is only a bailout for Wall Street and does little for Main Street.
“Democrats jettisoned proposals that would have put money into a trust fund for affordable housing and would have allowed judges to alter the terms of mortgages for bankrupt borrowers, according to aides.”
That is inexcusable. If the courts can't act, nobody else is going, no matter how many trusts are set up. The bad guys are getting away with murder. Again. I also can't believe that the executives of the companues that created this mess a going to not only keep their jobs, but escape prosecution. As a taxpayer, I don't want warrants, I want they keys to the door, the deed to the property and ownership of all its assets. Warrants are useless if the company fails or if the strike price is never reached. I also don't want a penny of it under the control of the Executive branch, which has declared war on the American People; Congress needs to control every cent.
This is a get-out-of-accountability pass for the parasitic, gangsters-in-designer-suits class and a butt fucking for the People. Any of my Congressional representaives vote for this, they can be sure I will vote against them when the time comes.
700 Billion is just a scratch of what these people are bailing themselves out with. Some reports say already over 5 trillion has been taken from the Federal Reserve. This is just this particular bailout bill. They've been bailout people for weeks now already. Add all that up and its far more than 700 Billion.
abarts @ 12:
Obama is backing this too, genius.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY
This plan will not help anyone except Wall Street, if you are unemployed, after this plan you will still be unemployed, if your house is being foreclosed, after this bill, it will still be foreclosed, if your 401k and other other stocks are worthless, after the bail out they will still be worthless. Do not be seduced or fooled by this urgent call to act now, the markets will be just fine without our money, it may fall a bit, but it will go back up.
Only the Corporate elite will benefit from this bail out, ask yourself when the last time Government acted in your best interest and not the interest of the elite,I can't think of one, but I can tell you about all the legislation passed to help every Corporation that has donated billions to our Congressional leaders, this is the same thing, a wolf in sheep's clothing, our Government telling us how they are going to help us, by bailing out the rich.
Everyone needs to contact their Representative and protest this bill NOW!!! before it's too late, here is the site to contact your representative. www.house.govThis plan will not help anyone except Wall Street, if you are unemployed, after this plan you will still be unemployed, if your house is being foreclosed, after this bill, it will still be foreclosed, if your 401k and other other stocks are worthless, after the bail out they will still be worthless. Do not be seduced or fooled by this urgent call to act now, the markets will be just fine without our money, it may fall a bit, but it will go back up.
Only the Corporate elite will benefit from this bail out, ask yourself when the last time Government acted in your best interest and not the interest of the elite,I can't think of one, but I can tell you about all the legislation passed to help every Corporation that has donated billions to our Congressional leaders, this is the same thing, a wolf in sheep's clothing, our Government telling us how they are going to help us, by bailing out the rich.
Everyone needs to contact their Representative and protest this bill NOW!!! before it's too late, here is the site to contact your representative. www.house.gov
BTW....
1) This government is irredeemably corrupt.
2) It long past time for the "Federal" Reserve to be abolished and the function it has usurped be returned to the People's government. Until the FR is abolished, this kind of shit is going to keep happening.
As someone who understands the markets fairly well, I can now say after watching carefully the actions of certain members - this is all bullshit -- all smoke and mirrors.
ComeOn! Right before an election - big crisis - 24/7 coverage - same people in charge - same Republicans, same Democrats in particular- that pushed the War and the Patriots Acts.
Henny Penny?? But wait. The henny penny is to help the markets- right ?? No.
The henny penny turns out to be - the Jewish holidays.
If they can take a holiday -and postpone the urgency of a collapsing economy - because of the religious beliefs of a few - it is NOT A SERIOUS issue!!. Federal holidays are supposed to be for THOSE NON-ESSENTIAL GOVERNMENT OFFICES.
They say they're worried about the taxpayers MONEY ?? How about the taxpayers paying the holiday salaries of over 500 members of Congress while most of us can't afford to take a holiday?
SPEAK UP AND SAY NO TO THIS SPECIAL INTEREST GIMMICK!
MsJoanne @ 99:
I just got a LOAN for $20,000.00. The money is there. If you have good credit there is credit. Oh, my loan came from a CREDIT UNION.
People, get your money out of banks and put it in a credit union.
Pelosi looks as if she's lying or simply doesn't believe in what she's saying.
Open Letter to Congress from Farm Aid's Board of Directors
~ Willie Nelson, John Mellencamp, Neil Young and Dave Matthews
Marvin @ 136:
Totally. And Bush is laughing in our faces. And Rumsfeldt was giddier than a schoolgirl in his press conferences going into the war in Iraq. These people are psychopaths. They are professional liars. Professional frontmen for the criminal syndicates. They choose these stooges to put out front for a purpose.
Hurry hurry rush rush.......stop!....Let wall street borrow money for themselves,and leave the taxpayers out of it. FEAR FEAR,....B.S..... Congress wants go get on vacation, and go home for election time. Go, I say, we'll take this up on Feb. 1st. No BUMS RUSH for America. If I lose gambling, I must suffer for it. This is no bail out, it's 'The great American money scam." Wall street should 'pass the kitty' around at the 'Golden Parachute Club.'
Different Anonymous @ 120:
That's wrong. I believe that they should have taken as much time as possible. All this represents is a giving in to Bush's terms, as usual, a la Patriot Act.
What do they say about the rich getting richer while the poor getting poorer?
Jerry Gifford @ 128:
Because THERE'S NO TIME! to put together a 'bottom up' solution which helps homeowners stay in their homes and continue to pay their mortgage and make those 'toxic' investments worth something! There's only time to pay the banks for those 'toxic' assets.
Oh -- and the guy losing his house and his kids and his grandkids will be paying for ALL of this.
Angry yet?
Kathleen @ 53:
appropriate
Jo @ 135:
Ok, let me start by saying I am not in favor of this. There is too much of a give away but I am not going to dissect this bill right now. I need to read it again when I am not so tired.
What you are talking about is people who have good credit. Dandy. They can get a loan.
Now let's talk about people who do not have good credit, possibly because of the shit loan they got where they fell behind, or those who got into houses who never should have.
What needs to be done is to reevaluate those people to see if they have the means to stay in their homes. If they have sufficient income, they, too, should be allowed to refinance. If there is no way they can sustain the home, they are going to lose it (one way or another).
At some point, these loans all need to be reviewed (the ones in foreclosure, pre-foreclosure and very spotty history) and either get them into a stable fixed rate mortgage, if they have qualifying income, or get those toxic loans out of the mix.
What complicates everything is WHO OWNS THESE MORTGAGES?
Once these mortgages were bundled and sold as these varied instruments (all with AAA ratiings, where they should not be), it's anyone's guess as to who owns what and how you unbundle them to get bundles which are AAA rated (if they continue to be sold on the market).
if the dems are going to be corrupt, then at least they should be good greedy hagglers.
The dems are (we are) always left holding the check.
WTF!!!!!! is the Fn Dems problem?????? .... is this their S&M pleasure fetish bending over for more?
And the Republicans who got us into this mess are already beginning to blame the Democrats because they are too wussy to own up to their hideous mistakes. Freaking cowards.
MsJoanne @ 90:
Theoretically...Ok, yes. But this isn't credit based on the American economy of the 1960's...a strong manufacturing base, high wages and no NAFTA. This is Greenspan's world now. We're at nearly a trillion in debt with no manufacturing base and no end in sight.
Its borrowed credit. Money borrowed from the Chinese and loaned to ourselves for a profit to buy more Chinese goods. I get a kick out of folks who actually say things llike...Can you imagine how much good we could do, like in education, health care and infrastructure with all that cash?"
They're printing that worthless paper up to save the Wall Street party boat from crashing on the rocks.
All that cash is a vapor.
Its not real.
Its not there.
The Hamptons Dictionary defines "it's a deal" as an expression indicating that a midpoint in bargaining has been reached and that tough negotiations are about to begin.
And the Democrats just never seem to catch on ... every time they agree to something that becomes the new basis for negotiations.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me 8,462 times and I am fit to be a Democratic Senator or Congressman.
Jeanne @ 145:
That asshole Brad Blakeman was on with Chris Covinis railing that it is all the dem's fault. They have been in power for two years and it's all their fault for not doing oversight.
Covinis did a good job of yelling him back down (Welcome to the WWE of news) but not once did Covinis mention deregulation and oversight by the oversight agencies.
the folks in europe are calling it cash for trash
http://watchingamerica.com/News/#newssources
others are saying this is the decline of america like the soviet union declined
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/28/usforeignpolicy.usec...
ya think someday nations will learn the price of imperialism?
ya think
Helena Montana @ 2:
Oh man,
that's the BEST analogy on the situation I've seen so far!!
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