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Hovering around a 700 point drop at this point...
UPDATE: (Nicole) The Dow closed 777.68 points to 10365.45

That's lower than on Bush's first day in office, January 22, 2001

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106 Comments
Kevin's picture

Go to Hell, Wall Street!

Merlyn's picture

Good bye, Superpower Status and Dollar value! We hardly knew ye!

VeeKaChu's picture

Kevin @ 1:

Go to Hell, Wall Street!

In this case I believe it's appropriate to say "Don't hate the game, hate the players". Bastards.

Obummer's picture

that's like a point for each billion.

LNS's picture

Put your money into Kleenex, I'm telling you...

Tom65's picture

Oh man, McCain is getting his salad tossed over this one. He wanted the glory, let him take the fall.

DeBartolo's picture

DAMN THE PETTY REPUBLICAN'S!

Anyone who votes for them again has to be COMPLETLEY NUTS! The stock market just dropped 700 points as a result of their political maneuvers!

THEY GOT THEIR FEELING HURT...THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF CONGRESS!

It's okay, James Dobson and his Christian Right movement will feed everyone during the SECOND GREAT DREPRESSION.

I have voted Republican my last time!

Tag's picture

I say we give the GOP another 4 years. they have done so f#@%ing well the past 8. how does the GOP get even one vote??

AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

Kathleen's picture

I thought the biggest drop was around 1300

BuelahMan's picture

kleenex?

Toilet paper will be worth its weight in gold once the dollar falls to zero.

Abbybwood's picture

LNS @ 6:

Put your money into Kleenex, I'm telling you...

What money??

Tag's picture

Thanks for your fine leadership McCain. I guess all those trips to the middle east really helped out with this one. Just like it has helped win the war in Afghanistan...DUH !!!

William Wallace's picture

We are screwed. And the poor wittle Wepublicans feelings were hurt by Nancy Pelosi telling them the truth. So the voted to screw the country....even more. Unbelieveable.

Verdillac's picture

Tom65 @ 7:

Oh man, McCain is getting his salad tossed over this one. He wanted the glory, let him take the fall.

Are you sure you don't mean that McCain is going to be tossing someone else's sald?

je's picture

I am about to pee in my pants, right now !!!

Is this the October's surprise? If so, it 2 days early.

Tom65's picture

Verdillac @ 13:

Tom65 @ 7:

Oh man, McCain is getting his salad tossed over this one. He wanted the glory, let him take the fall.

Are you sure you don't mean that McCain is going to be tossing someone else's sald?

I always get that backwards, thankfully from a lack of experience.

Mick Piobr's picture

LNS @ 6:

Put your money into Kleenex, I'm telling you...

Ya can't cook toilet paper.

You can only brown it on one side...

Mark's picture

sweet lets go for broken 1500 points anybody?

tuddies's picture

Giving a trillion to Wall Street will not solve anything. The market is severely overvalued - even with the dot com crash and recent credit troubles, the P/E of most companies are still way overvalued compared to their asking price.

The market needs to correct. The toxic assets need to be accounted for by Wall Street, who are STILL overvaluing them!

Kathleen's picture

O.K the attack Iran rhetoric is going up in Congress. After that false statement out of Obama I am really worried

drshatterhand's picture

This bill was like chemotherapy. It was toxic and no one wanted it, but it was necessary to keep the animal alive. Well, this craven move because of fear in those facing re-election is gonna get it blown up in their face because when the jobs and paychecks dry up overnight without any credit, the voter will be howling for their blood.

CMINCA's picture

Obama made a statement.

Even when pressed, McCain said NOTHING. This is after bragging and strutting that he was the leader, he lead the charge, he got into the arena., while Obama "phoned it in".

The ONLY good thing that could come out of this is the implosion of McCain's entire campaign.

Simon's picture

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

petewsh61's picture

Kevin @ 1:

Go to Hell, Wall Street!

The trouble with that attitude is that over the last few decades all our economic well being has become so closely tied to the market, that if Wall Street goes to hell, we all go with it.

I am make measly 41k a year teaching at a University (big surprise being an academic no longer means being rich) and if the market tanks I will probably not have my contract job renewed (tenure is dying too). The U's endowment will shrivel and I am payed through that.

What we need is a plan to slowly operate on our economy and decouple our well being for the volatility of the market. I'd like the Dems start to talk about that a lot more.

Poopyman's picture

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the Asian markets will have their turn later this evening. My guess is that the momentum will keep the markets heading south through tomorrow. Dow below 10K this week, anyone?

OK, I guess that's not going to make anyone here feel better. Probably put a spring in the step of OBL, though.

Any bill that commits that kind of money done without public hearings and extensive research is a bad idea.

The Congress had not seen the books of any of the Corporations singing the blues.

Who knows what was in there?

c. atrox's picture

Not since the fall of the Soviet Union have I felt so damn good. Now if we can just get rid of religion, the world might be a better place.

Fredo's picture

700 points?

and people said I was mad when I put my money into woodlouse farming

nohobear's picture

You follow Hoover's policies of unbridled capitalism, greed run amock, and what do you expect? I'd say let the whole corrupt system collapse, but too many innocent hardworking people who never speculated will get badly hurt, while the bastards who caused this have their money safely parked out of the country.

Welcome to the third world America, courtesy of the G.O.P

CMINCA's picture

Mark @ 19:

sweet lets go for broken 1500 points anybody?

Not to pick on you individually, but I am really sick and tired of this attitude. Small businesses are struggling to survive right now. Their credit has been tightened.

What's up next, you may ask. The suspension of small lines of credit that keep small businesses afloat, you know, the middle class, the core of American, the largest employers in America.

Also, the suspension of credit as it applies to credit cards. Yes, that means MAIN STREET.

This is a very, very serious matter that requires a serious and responsible solution, perhaps not the House bill, but a real solution.

I'm just sick over the glib attitude as if this doesn't or will never affect ordinary people. If you truly believe that, you are quite simply delusional.

Mick Piobr's picture

c. atrox @ 28:

Not since the fall of the Soviet Union have I felt so damn good. Now if we can just get rid of religion, the world might be a better place.

But...but religion keeps the stupid people out of the supermarket on sunday when I shop...

enor's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

Is the opposite of FOX, the truth?

(But really, we know this is just therapy here for us, it's not really journalism. E)

MaryK's picture

petewsh61 @ 25:

Kevin @ 1:

Go to Hell, Wall Street!

The trouble with that attitude is that over the last few decades all our economic well being has become so closely tied to the market, that if Wall Street goes to hell, we all go with it.

I am make measly 41k a year teaching at a University (big surprise being an academic no longer means being rich) and if the market tanks I will probably not have my contract job renewed (tenure is dying too). The U's endowment will shrivel and I am payed through that.

What we need is a plan to slowly operate on our economy and decouple our well being for the volatility of the market. I'd like the Dems start to talk about that a lot more.

I'm an Aggie grad student whose plan is to teach at University level... perhaps Literature is not the way to go? Few people are interested in reading and writing when they read their bills and cannot write a check to cover them.

Kilgore Trout's picture

It is just the markets throwing a temper tantrum. They will get their way and the markets will rise again. Business as usual.

FreeDUMB's picture

We need a bill that absorbs the excess housing that has been built. The best way for the taxpayers to recoup those funds is to renegotiate the loans so that we can keep people in their homes if they still want them. There will be a bill because the alternative is SOOOO ugly.

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

The Electorate rewarded Clinton's fiscal conservatism (he is an older school Republican after all) with a New School Republican Congress in the fall of '94.

Newt Gingrich's Contract On America et al.

Yes it does take more than a few months of mismanagement.

They havenow had plenty of time to screw things up royally.

c. atrox's picture

Mick Piobr @ 32:

c. atrox @ 28:

Not since the fall of the Soviet Union have I felt so damn good. Now if we can just get rid of religion, the world might be a better place.

But...but religion keeps the stupid people out of the supermarket on sunday when I shop...

Gosh, you have a point there...

La Parisienne's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

Well I am not from the USA either but I certainly wouldn't call 7+ years of Bush's gross disastrous (non)eadership and over 6+ years of Republican championing of deregulation, tax breaks for Wall street fat cats etc....etc... "a fexw months of mismanagement" ... that's about the understatement of the year.

Abbybwood's picture

drshatterhand @ 22:

This bill was like chemotherapy. It was toxic and no one wanted it, but it was necessary to keep the animal alive. Well, this craven move because of fear in those facing re-election is gonna get it blown up in their face because when the jobs and paychecks dry up overnight without any credit, the voter will be howling for their blood.

It the condition of the patient is terminal (chemotherapy?), I suggest that we put the patient in hospice, give him/her plenty of morphine for pain management and declare "DO NOT RESUSITATE!!" and let him go out peacefully.

Let Wall Street go under. Reorganize the National Banking System for the benefit of the U.S. taxpayers and NOT for the benefit of the Wall Street Fat Cats.

This is a wake-up call to the American people and a golden opportunity for us to restructure or eliminate the IRS and The Federal Reserve Bank.

High interest rates and the Federal Reserve, unless stopped, will bring this country to it's knees. Back to the gold standard say I!!!

Susan's picture

Good. Now the chant needs to be, "Kill the Bill!" So they quit putting it up for a re-vote. We have reneged on our debt before, and we didn't go down in flames.

Invest that $700 billion that magically appeared for Wall Street into rebuilding our infrastructure -- railways, waterways, and public thoroughways. Invest it into preventative health care. Invest it into trade schools, so that we can actually begin manufacturing things HERE, for OURSELVES.

If the money was there for Wall Street, it should be there for WE, THE PEOPLE. You know, the Main Street they all were so worried about.

Abbybwood's picture

Here's what's happening on Wall Street in front of the NY stock exchange...wonder why this isn't on MSNBC or CNN???:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Protests-on-Wall-Street---what-the-news-media-is...

Doug448's picture

They closed the market after 9/11 otherwise the drop quite probably would have been worse. I am far from Libertarian or Republican, but I was actually proud of the democratic process that defeated the bailout. There would be a point in time when we would have to pay for the house of cards economy caused by our loss of manufacturing, corporate favoring legislation, and the industry of debt.for sending those jobs abroad. I guess the time starts now. I'm just thankful that the bastards that created the problem aren't going to profit from it.
Now the POS House republicions, after doing one of the greatest things in their political lives are basking and talking about Iran.
Rebuild America First

es-HUSSEIN-me's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

this should give you some BG

remember that congress flipped republican during Clinton's second term (remember the impeachment hearings, yes)...

nuf said

clabber_grrl's picture

"Point drops" are meaningless. What counts is percentage. This one doesn't even make the top 20.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3024-djia_alltime.html

Old man and his pig's picture

It's a great time to be a filthy rich billionair..scoop up the bottom and watch it grow, at some point.

Zachary B.'s picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

I believe Republicans had Congress during the Clinton years, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Note: Republicans are for deregulation. The worst thing the Democrats have done is to bow to Republican pressure. Therefor the Democrats are complicit in this however the problem was brought on chiefly from Republicans (and specifically neoconservative ideology or neoliberal economics for the rest of the world).

Simon's picture

enor @ 33:

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

Is the opposite of FOX, the truth?

Touche! But I suppose I meant in slant rather than content. And sorry, I just don't buy that under Clinton everything was economically hunky dory and then W came along ad everything went to hell. Surely they're both culprits in this? Come on, someone give me a reasoned conclusion rather than a bunch of finger pointing cos the other side are doing that too and for people like me (who are pretty ignorant with economic matters), I get the feeling the truth lies somewhere in the middle

(But really, we know this is just therapy here for us, it's not really journalism. E)

Nicole Belle's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

Wow, I don't know if I should respond, given that you've insulted our intelligence, but the reason the blame centers on Republicans is that it is the Republican-controlled Congress (and they were in control of Congress during Clinton's term as well) were the ones that pushed and got all the deregulation of the market that put us in this mess.

As to our "insular, slanted perspective", we make no attempt to hide that we are liberals and this is a liberal-oriented blog. We're not a news organization like Fox. We give political opinions. Agree or disagree, we ask that you remain civil, both to us and to other commenters--which your comment would probably not fall in.

If you're looking for news, go to a news blog. If you're looking for analysis from a liberal perspective, you're welcome to stay...but given your ignorance of our government, I'd advise you to lay off questioning our intelligence.

Terrible's picture

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of crooked thieves!

nohobear's picture

Well said. We should be rescuing American homeowners, not Wall Street financiers. Bailing them out is throwing our money down a rat hole, and will only forestall an even bigger crash. So much for GOP "free market" hypocrisy. Read the history of the Great Depression. This is an exact replay. Hoover tried bailing out the banks and they failed 24 months later.

Susan @ 41:

Good. Now the chant needs to be, "Kill the Bill!" So they quit putting it up for a re-vote. We have reneged on our debt before, and we didn't go down in flames.

Invest that $700 billion that magically appeared for Wall Street into rebuilding our infrastructure -- railways, waterways, and public thoroughways. Invest it into preventative health care. Invest it into trade schools, so that we can actually begin manufacturing things HERE, for OURSELVES.

If the money was there for Wall Street, it should be there for WE, THE PEOPLE. You know, the Main Street they all were so worried about.

Brendan's picture

Susan @ 41:

Good. Now the chant needs to be, "Kill the Bill!" So they quit putting it up for a re-vote. We have reneged on our debt before, and we didn't go down in flames.

Invest that $700 billion that magically appeared for Wall Street into rebuilding our infrastructure -- railways, waterways, and public thoroughways. Invest it into preventative health care. Invest it into trade schools, so that we can actually begin manufacturing things HERE, for OURSELVES.

If the money was there for Wall Street, it should be there for WE, THE PEOPLE. You know, the Main Street they all were so worried about.

If they wanted a bailout, that's exactly where the money should have gone. $700 billion into infrastructures would be 100,000s of jobs for skilled and semi-skilled workers, meaning tons of money injected into retail, etc. and a firming up of existing loans. (i.e. People who were on the cusp before would be able to actually afford the loans they already had.)

That's how you know it was a middle-class bailout of the rich. Infrastructure investment would have made a long-term difference to millions of lives and the country would have been better for it. This bailout would have just covered margins and would have been forgotten in a month. Until the next crisis.

enor's picture

Susan @ 41:

Good. Now the chant needs to be, "Kill the Bill!" So they quit putting it up for a re-vote. We have reneged on our debt before, and we didn't go down in flames.

Invest that $700 billion that magically appeared for Wall Street into rebuilding our infrastructure -- railways, waterways, and public thoroughways. Invest it into preventative health care. Invest it into trade schools, so that we can actually begin manufacturing things HERE, for OURSELVES.

If the money was there for Wall Street, it should be there for WE, THE PEOPLE. You know, the Main Street they all were so worried about.

Give the foreclosed homes to the poor, the homeless, the laid-off financial workers.

Karin Byars's picture

The only bad thing about this bombed bailout is the fact that a weak dollar makes my Austrian coffee very expensive.

smchris's picture

#25 The trouble with that attitude is that over the last few decades all our economic well being has become so closely tied to the market, that if Wall Street goes to hell, we all go with it.

Which is another way of saying America isn't actually making anything anymore, we're just trading "value" amongst ourselves? Sounds like a plan destined to fail. Whose bright idea was that again anyway?

Simon's picture

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

Terrible's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

I have 4 words for you Simon: Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

Loonie's picture

Verdillac @ 15:

Tom65 @ 7:

Oh man, McCain is getting his salad tossed over this one. He wanted the glory, let him take the fall.

Are you sure you don't mean that McCain is going to be tossing someone else's sald?

I've often remarked that he's quite a tosser.

FunMe's picture

tuddies @ 20:

Giving a trillion to Wall Street will not solve anything. The market is severely overvalued - even with the dot com crash and recent credit troubles, the P/E of most companies are still way overvalued compared to their asking price.

The market needs to correct. The toxic assets need to be accounted for by Wall Street, who are STILL overvaluing them!

Exactly! This is a NECESSARY CORRECTION.

We survived the S&L crisis. we survived the dot com crash.

So we suffer, as long as the CEOs and other executives suffer too, so be it.

Nicole Belle's picture

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

We'll miss your contributions. Good bye

Eric L's picture

I'd like to be the first person to thank McCain for getting back to DC and getting the job done!

Wait... he didn't? Oooooooooh....

Nicole Belle's picture

Terrible @ 57:

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

I have 4 words for you Simon: Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

Simon doesn't care. He just wants to blame us for being partisan. I think Simon may be a screenname for Rep. Eric Cantor.

NoOneYouKnow's picture

Simon=concern troll. Give us a few examples of C+L's spin, please?

Simon's picture

Nicole Belle @ 60:

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

We'll miss your contributions. Good bye

The reason we lost the last election...

"you don't agree with us on every point ..blah blah blah...go away, you're not wanted..blah blah blah"

Liberal AND Proud's picture

Gosh...I feel 30 years old again!

Where's Uncle Ronnie.

Gosh..I feel 37 years old again.

Where's Uncle George.

Gosh...I really feel 50.

Where's the drunk?

KEVKEV IN APACHE JUNCTION's picture

In the 1950s Groucho Marx was invited to take a tour of the New York Stock Exchange. While in the observation booth, he grabbed the public address system handset and began singing "Lydia the Tattooed Lady". Upon hearing silence coming from the trading floor, he walked into view, was given a loud cheer by the traders, and shouted, "Gentlemen, in 1929 I lost eight hundred thousand dollars on this floor, and I intend to get my money's worth!" For fifteen minutes, he sang, danced, told jokes, and all this time, the Wall Street stock ticker was running blank.

Nicole Belle's picture

Simon @ 64:

Nicole Belle @ 60:

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

We'll miss your contributions. Good bye

The reason we lost the last election...

"you don't agree with us on every point ..blah blah blah...go away, you're not wanted..blah blah blah"

Now I know you're a troll. YOU were the one asking for other blogs and complaining about the partisan spin on a liberal political opinion blog. But you've always been a lefty and support Obama. Riiiiigggghhhhtttt.

And the reason we lost the last election is because it was stolen. Can't say that enough times for some trolls.

Simon's picture

NoOneYouKnow @ 63:

Simon=concern troll. Give us a few examples of C+L's spin, please?

Examples? Okay, sure. Firstly, the idea that anyone who disagrees with ANYTHING on here in a Troll. I mean, seriously?! Secondly, it's not so much the stuff that is here that I'm worried about but the stuff that ISN'T, ya know? I want both sides to be up to scrutiny but the very few times I've seen Obama or a Dem under the blowtorch it almost seemed like C&L was apologetic about doing so? Don't ask me for specifics, you wont agree even if I gave em to ya. I just feel like the debate has become stagnant and is no longer 'debate', just a whole lotta useless finger pointing from both sides, both too hungry for power to actually do anything about our probs.

But jesus, sorry for going against the grain!

Geraldo's picture

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

Pssst... "Leftist" is a dead giveaway.

Terrible's picture

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

Simon firstly a Clinton veto of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act would have been useless because: "The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15."

And secondly never before in history has being a prisoner been considered some heroic act!!! And don't expect us veterans or soldiers to buy into that absurdity!

False Dmitriy's picture

At less than 7%, this isn't even the biggest drop of the w debacle.

In 1987 the Dow dropped 22.6% in one day. The market would have had to fall by more than 2500 points today to match that.

Of course there's still tomorrow...

KEVKEV IN APACHE JUNCTION's picture

Songs of the Great Depression

Brother, Can You Spare a Dime," lyrics by Yip Harburg, music by Jay Gorney (1931)

They used to tell me I was building a dream, and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear, I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?

Once I built a railroad, I made it run, made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad; now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower, up to the sun, brick, and rivet, and lime;
Once I built a tower, now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?

Mick Piobr's picture

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

Fingerpointing is such an ugly word.

How about the term "post mortem"

Is there any possibility that the rampant deregulation that started with Reagan and has characterised the Republican party since 1980 has anything to do with the current meltdown?

KEVKEV IN APACHE JUNCTION's picture

Songs of the Great Depression
"Life is Just a Bowl of Cherries," lyrics by Lew Brown, music by Ray Henderson (1931)

People are queer, they're always crowing, scrambling and rushing about;
Why don't they stop someday, address themselves this way?
Why are we here? Where are we going? It's time that we found out.
We're not here to stay; we're on a short holiday.

Life is just a bowl of cherries.
Don't take it serious; it's too mysterious.
You work, you save, you worry so,
But you can't take your dough when you go, go, go.

KEVKEV IN APACHE JUNCTION's picture

Songs of the Great Depression

"We're in the Money," lyrics by Al Dubin, music by Harry Warren (from the film Gold Diggers of 1933, 1933)

We're in the money, we're in the money;
We've got a lot of what it takes to get along!
We're in the money, that sky is sunny,
Old Man Depression you are through, you done us wrong.
We never see a headline about breadlines today.
And when we see the landlord we can look that guy right in the eye
We're in the money, come on, my honey,
Let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along!

Oh, yes we're in the money, you bet we're in the money,
We've got a lot of what it takes to get along!
Let's go we're in the money, Look up the skies are sunny,
Old Man Depression you are through, you done us wrong.
We never see a headline about breadlines today.
And when we see the landlord we can look that guy right in the eye
We're in the money, come on, my honey,
Let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along!

Ruthless People's picture

The GOP economy knows no bottom.

Simon's picture

Terrible @ 69:

Simon @ 56:

Well as I've stated before, I support Obama and have always voted left. I'm just tired of the growing insular nature of this blgo and lack of perspective here. I used to love Crooks and Liars but now all I see is left SPIN (as bad as Fox and the right on occasion). First McCain's no war hero (and the attempt to dismiss his bravery ala the swift boat attacks on Kerry 04!) and now complete and utter absolution of Clinton and his people for the current crisis. I'm getting tired of it, just want a leftist blog with a bit more proper debate rather than sanctimonious finger pointing, blaming the other side everytime something bad happens.

Simon firstly a Clinton veto of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act would have been useless because: "The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15."

And secondly never before in history has being a prisoner been considered some heroic act!!! And don't expect us veterans or soldiers to buy into that absurdity!

Firstl of all, thanks for a few facts rather than just ANOTHER accusation about being a troll. It's almost ridiculous, say something everyone doesn't agree with and you're automatically a troll? Get a grip people. Secondly, no one argues his time in a prison was 'heroic' per say, though his personal sacrifice for his country could be argued as being Heroic. But his decision to stay when offered an out, on account of his fellow prisoners certainly WAS heroic. His policies may stink, his general demenour during the elction cycle ridiculous. But I urge you to read the late David Foster Wallace who wrote on McCain during the 2000 election primaries and you may get a different view. Can link you the article if you want. Much more clarity and thought in that article than the banshees on here who wont have anything question their ideas

Simon's picture

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18420304/the_weasel_twelve_mo...

Okay theres the David Foster Wallace article on McCain (and for those who dont know, Wallace was one of Americans great modern authors). Gives a little perspective. Let's not go the way of repugs and turn into howling banshees, hurling spiteful, personal insults this way and that. Let's show em up (ala Obama during the debate) and give a bit of dignity back to politics. I guarantee it'll be the difference between a win and another 4 years of "bush"..

Beach Bum's picture

Time to start rounding up Republicans and Evangelicals for Palin, stripping them of all property and finances and settle them in the Nevada desert in camps. Don't forget to take away their voting rights as well.

xylonjay's picture

Abbybwood @ 40:

drshatterhand @ 22:

This bill was like chemotherapy. It was toxic and no one wanted it, but it was necessary to keep the animal alive. Well, this craven move because of fear in those facing re-election is gonna get it blown up in their face because when the jobs and paychecks dry up overnight without any credit, the voter will be howling for their blood.

It the condition of the patient is terminal (chemotherapy?), I suggest that we put the patient in hospice, give him/her plenty of morphine for pain management and declare "DO NOT RESUSITATE!!" and let him go out peacefully.

Let Wall Street go under. Reorganize the National Banking System for the benefit of the U.S. taxpayers and NOT for the benefit of the Wall Street Fat Cats.

This is a wake-up call to the American people and a golden opportunity for us to restructure or eliminate the IRS and The Federal Reserve Bank.

High interest rates and the Federal Reserve, unless stopped, will bring this country to it's knees. Back to the gold standard say I!!!

I agree 100%, Kill the Federal Reserve!!!

Mark N.'s picture

Stock market drops 777 points. Anytime I see three sevens, I think "one-armed bandit". Maybe we hit the jackpot today.

Animadverto's picture

Good, let it hit the fan! This will put the average citizen on a level playing field with those who think that they are "so inside". You see, real action will take place when it starts to make a lot of people suffer. Good, let it tank...its going to happen anyway at some point in the near future. It may as well be now. If now, at least it is throwing a lot of people off balance. All the better.

basterdo's picture

Burn usa burn hehe

Wdav's picture

Heck-of-a-job,Poulson! Resign.

President PNACcio's picture

A few thoughts and an opinion.

First, there is a difference between the biggest point drop and the biggest percentage drop.
All these headlines about the point drop is sensationalism. It's the percentage drop that matters.
Asian, European, and Latin American markets have moves in this percentage range often. The US markets rarely do, and Americans are not used to it.

Second, trading volume is the pressure that moves the markets up or down. Trading volume was not high today. In fact, it was just a little above average. This is actually a very good sign. (considering)

My opinion is, the markets were sending a message to Washington. Stop f****** around and help solve this liquidity jam. As soon as we see some progress, one way or another, I expect things to improve rapidly.

John Boggs's picture

LOL...idiotic democratic "give the poor affordable housing" policy's forced this fiasco upon us. Live with it, Democrats!

fred's picture

Real, profound crisis is a necessary component for real, profound change. I hope the whole thing gets shit-canned.
2012 OR BUST!!!!!!!!!!!!

James's picture

Most of the market analysts that I've been hearing from and reading about think that the market needs to drop down to about 7500 because most stocks are overvalued at 10,000.

Isn't it wonderful how we humans write our rules?

I mean, only a human being could think of writing a law that allows a 200 pound human being to win an argument with a three thousand pound vehicle, but our pedestrian laws fly in the face of the common sense knowledge that a human being is capable of something that a car is NOT capable of... lateral movement... in other words, a human being can step out of the way!

Now, the MATH is telling us that the market needs to correct, no matter how painful that may be... but the Fed and the Congress will sell this country down the river to maintain prices on OVERVALUED STOCK!

What next? Are we going to pass a law that says that two plus two is now FIVE?!?!

Hey Congress, instead of buying the crappiest stock in the country for "us", why don't you pony up some money, and buy us all some Microsoft stock?

fastfeat's picture

666 +111= 777

gffish's picture

On Bush's first day in office, the Dow Jones average was at 10578, which in purchasing power equals $12,423 in today's dollars. The market closed today at 10365. Thus, in terms of real dollars, the stock market has declined 16.5% since Bush took office. Heckuva job, Bushie.

Maybe Americans will finally realize that we shouldn't vote for president based on who we would most like to have a beer with.

Truth Ragle's picture

#90 Exactly... And the real kicker is that you shouldn't have a beer with a recovering alcoholic, anyway!

ontheleftcoast's picture

The lure of hyperbole and superlatives in the press (and the blogosphere) always amazes me. This was hardly the largest fall on Wall Street. Unless you use the rather poor metric of absolute value. The percentage of the crash is what matters. Take the '87 crash. That was a roughly 20% drop in one day -- roughly 3 times the size of today's crash. So if you had $1000 in the market the day before the crash then you'd have lost $200. Today if you had $1000 in the market you would have lost $70. Which is a bigger deal?

Math. It adds up!

shaggles's picture

I was pissed the day the market shot up on the news that the feds were considering bailing out Wall Street. "Oh boy!" cried all the greedy little brokers and even greedier investors. "Someone else is going to fix our mess so we can make money again!" FTS. No bailout. Let all market based economies die.

President PNACcio's picture

Oh, THIS is RICH.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican John McCain's campaign blamed presidential rival Barack Obama and his fellow Democrats on Monday for the congressional rejection of a $700 billion rescue plan for Wall Street and said Obama failed a test of leadership.

"Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain and refused to even say if he supported the final bill," McCain adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said in a statement after the House of Representatives voted 228 to 205 against the plan.

"This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country," Holtz-Eakin said.

The last part is the kicker.

- A majority of House Democrats supported the proposal and the majority of House Republicans opposed it. A total of 133 House Republicans voted against it, with 95 Democrats opposing the plan. -

So the majority of Democrats supported it, the majority of Republicans opposed it, and it's OBAMA'S FAULT it failed?

fry's picture

but McCain said the fundamentals were strong =(

David762's picture

The Wall Street investment banks were all originally self-insured, with perhaps some margin covered by the likes of "LLoyds of London". Unfettered and unregulated financial markets are what all the Wall Street wizards have wanted, for at least the past 100 years. The greed, avarice, and stupidity of these "sharks" is what brought them to this point. Truly "free market capitalism" WILL self-correct on its own, but it WILL be a ride that many investors may lose their lunch over (multiple times).

I say "FUCK THEM ALL!"
Any BAIL-OUT should go directly to the Middle Class and Poor, who don't have any problem identifying which house is their primary residence, or which kitchen table they want to discuss their family finances over. Time for some "trickle-up" economics in the way of (1) debt holiday OR (2) mortgage refinancing for the common folk, instead of the Corporate Socialists.

Cait's picture

Even though this is the biggest drop on Wall Street according to points, it's not the biggest drop according to the percentage. There's a little hope. Let's stop playing the blame game and pass a bail-out plan.

Tom A,'s picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

A few months?!?!?!?!? What planet have you lived on? almost 8 years is NOT a few months.(2008-2001 =7 yrs and counting) and the lack of enforcing regulations, turning a blind eye to the massive greed on wall street, among many other things, is what occured these past 8 years.

CMINCA @ 31:

Mark @ 19:

sweet lets go for broken 1500 points anybody?

Not to pick on you individually, but I am really sick and tired of this attitude. Small businesses are struggling to survive right now. Their credit has been tightened.

What's up next, you may ask. The suspension of small lines of credit that keep small businesses afloat, you know, the middle class, the core of American, the largest employers in America.

Also, the suspension of credit as it applies to credit cards. Yes, that means MAIN STREET.

This is a very, very serious matter that requires a serious and responsible solution, perhaps not the House bill, but a real solution.

I'm just sick over the glib attitude as if this doesn't or will never affect ordinary people. If you truly believe that, you are quite simply delusional.

I dont know how old you are, but when a person is a certain age (40 ish), you tend to have lived through assorted engineered and accidental recessions by governments.
No matter what a small person does, the crap alway hits the fan, wages stagnant, jobs evaporate, same ol same ol.
And then they engineer a small boom before an election to fool the guliable.
We have seen it all before, not impressed, so Wall Street burns, main street follows, big deal.
Lets see it go down big time and maybe a proper sustainable economy (not a boom bust one) might emerge from the ruins.

David762 @ 96:

The Wall Street investment banks were all originally self-insured, with perhaps some margin covered by the likes of "LLoyds of London". Unfettered and unregulated financial markets are what all the Wall Street wizards have wanted, for at least the past 100 years. The greed, avarice, and stupidity of these "sharks" is what brought them to this point. Truly "free market capitalism" WILL self-correct on its own, but it WILL be a ride that many investors may lose their lunch over (multiple times).

I say "FUCK THEM ALL!"
Any BAIL-OUT should go directly to the Middle Class and Poor, who don't have any problem identifying which house is their primary residence, or which kitchen table they want to discuss their family finances over. Time for some "trickle-up" economics in the way of (1) debt holiday OR (2) mortgage refinancing for the common folk, instead of the Corporate Socialists.

good points and well said.

bastonal's picture

The DOW is hundreds of points lower than the day Bush took office Jan 2001!!

someguy's picture

Thanks W.

humbledummy's picture

Points shmoints.

What was the biggest PERCENTAGE drop in history?!

Tom Belt's picture

who really gives a shit?

Market drops, don't sell your holdings.
Market raises, do not sell your holdings.
What have you lost?
ZERO.
The same scare tactics used by this administration since 2000.
This time, lets shove the hot poker up their ass!

Rick's picture

The market was down 9.35 points by the end of Bush’s first day in office.

Yesterday’s drop was the largest point drop since at least October 1, 1928. But it was only the 17th largest percentage loss since 1928.

The largest percentage drop was on October 19, 1987, during the Reagan administration. The decline on that day alone was greater than the percentage losses on October 28 – 29, 1929.

The greatest percentage gain was 15.3% on March 15, 1933, after Roosevelt closed the banks for a week and gave his first “fireside chat.”

Mike's picture

Simon @ 24:

Excuse my ignorance - not being from the US of A - but am I wrong is wondering why all the blame centres on the repugs when prior to Bush the democrats had power of the white house for eight years under Clinton? Don't these sorts of things take years to unfold rather than a few months of mismanagement? I love C&L, it reflects my support for Obama and gives me great links to great articles. But I've noticed it start slipping into a totally insular, slanted perspective. It's like Fox, but the opposite. Kinda depressing me getting such bias views. Anyone know a leftist blog that allows some INTELLIGENT (and not reactionary) debate?

Thanks!

You're absolutely right and both parties are responsible for this debacle. Sadly, politics have become so polarized in the US, that people turn a blind eye to their own party's faults and simply place all blame on the other. It's how the two parties maintain their power, since neither party truly delivers on providing real reform.

Instead of relying on the biased opinions of a few extreme Dems/Repubs, a little research on your part will go a long way. Both sides must share the blame on this one.

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