House To Vote On Bailout Today
By Nicole Belle Sunday Sep 28, 2008 11:00am
The House braced for a difficult vote set for Monday on a $700 billion rescue of the financial industry after a weekend of tense negotiations produced a plan that Congressional leaders portrayed as greatly strengthened by new taxpayer safeguards.
The 110-page bill, intended to ease a growing credit crisis, came after a frenzied week of political twists and turns that culminated in an agreement between the Bush administration and Congress early Sunday morning.
The measure still faced stiff resistance from Republican and Democratic lawmakers who portrayed it as a rush to economic judgment and an undeserved aid package for high-flying financiers who chased big profits through reckless investments.
I have to count myself in the camp that thinks this bailout bill is a trap by the Republicans to tie the Democrats to Bush/Paulson and paint themselves as the populists looking out for the little guy. How telling is it that after all his earlier grandstanding, McCain declined to take credit for being part of this bailout bill?
A side-by-side comparison of the various bills does make the House bill look somewhat better (low bar that it is), but my big fears are that 1) it's all sound and fury, because they don't have the votes for it and more importantly, 2) without critical systemic changes, we find ourselves right back in the same spot in a few months. As Krugman says:
The fundamental problem with our financial system is that the fallout from the housing bust has left financial institutions with too little capital. When he finally deigned to offer an explanation of his plan, Mr. Paulson argued that he could solve this problem through "price discovery" - that once taxpayer funds had created a market for mortgage-related toxic waste, everyone would realize that the toxic waste is actually worth much more than it currently sells for, solving the capital problem. Never say never, I guess - but you don't want to bet $700 billion on wishful thinking.
I simply cannot understand how throwing good (or more critically in this case, taxpayer) money after bad changes anything other than temporarily delaying the collapse of companies with bad business models. I'm not convinced that the Democratic leadership haven't been pressured unduly to come up with something too hastily, too accomodating to the Bush administration and just not far enough to ensure that this won't happen over and over and over again. Minimally, a return of the Glass Steagall Act (something like the plan advocated by Thom Hartmann) would be nice to stem this tide.
While Krugman is on record as saying that there's enough oversight in the bill to "make it worth passing," I'm not convinced. There are some economists that think any bailout is unnecessary, but the freezing of credit lines by illiquid banks will make it difficult for small businesses to run too.
In the end, I'm hoping for a more liberal version of the Shock Doctrine. If crises are used to force citizens to accept policies we normally wouldn't, what is stopping us from using this crisis to move the country towards a more progressive future? To that end, I'm calling my Representative to urge a "No" vote on the bailout bill. If we're going to act, let's do it right.
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barney the purple ass cow, and the bear went over the mountain to screw the taxpayers in the hump
...And why the rush to get in all into *this* fiscal year, not next year?
Sometimes the truth is in the details.
This whole thing smells bad. Why the urgency? I'm no financail expert, but thing is getting shoved down our throats.
If the GOP doesn't have the votes on their side to make this pass, Pelosi should call for the vote ANYWAY. THEN, when it fails...she can blame the intransigent opposition.
She can claim that the "process" worked, the people were listened to...and then move on.
If she plays her card right, this can be a big win for the Democrats and a club to use against the GOP.
Of course, I don't think she's that politically astute.
Don't do it! The very fact that its a Bush admin plan is enough to not do it. I say let the world markets do what they will til January and hopefully let someone else deal with it
why the rush? http://poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=13611
Just one final shakedown from the Federal Reserve mafia, who is the real winner. Raise the debt ceiling another trillion, watch the dollar tank, cash out and ride off into the sunset while America burns.
GOP House Members Seek New Provision: A Bailout ON John McCain
These people just make me tired.
OT--
Palin, the preggo kid, Gramps and pillhead giving a photo-op to the sheep on CNN now. They're letting moosehead speak!!
Listening to the debate this morning, I heard a Republican Congressman railing about this legislation, saying it's a mistake and a result of the governments failure, etc., etc. When the debate shifted back to Barney Frank, his comment was 'although I think the Congressman is being too harsh on the Bush Administration, I certainly understand his comments'.
The Republican Congressman never saw that response coming, and it certainly put his comments into perspective. Great comeback by Congressman Frank!
This is looting, pure and simple.
Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank are letting BushCo loot the US Treasury.
Why?
I didn’t like the $89 Billion loan to AIG in order to keep it solvent, but I understood it. In my view it was to keep the company alive so that it could be broken apart and sold piecemeal to recover the bad debt and loan. Fair enough…
But this current bill is smoke & mirrors. They want to forgive the greed, pay the debts, and put everything right back to where we started. It solves nothing. They’re doing it because they can.
Let's call it what it is: the victims bailing out the criminals.
There's been a disturbance with the taxpayer. Its like the voices of millions of taxpayers suddenly crying out saying no.
Can we just send a clear message to them? You pass this bill, all you rich SOB's are out of office next election? I'll never vote republican EVAH, but these democrats that are in there are too spineless and out of touch. Like Pelosi's slam to every honest american saying impeach is off the table.
The way bush has tried to see this thing reminds me of blackmail or at the very least, a chain letter.
He's saying all sorts of terrible things will happen to us if we don't leave a bag of unmarked bills at his front door.
The chain letter idea might be more apt as he says if we give him seven hundred billion dollars after some amount of time we will receive some part if not all of it back. If we don't give him the money within a certain time, a pox will fall on all our houses.
This thing will pass regardless of the will of the people.
If for some reason it DOES NOT, and we go into a major
depression, they will blame us, and things will get sooo bad
that the people will BEG them for a solution, in which
they will get what they want in the end.
Nice representation hey?
I'm missing the page with with the signing statements.... anybody have a link?
jimbo92107 @ 12:
Nancy Pelosi is a TERRIBLE politician, and totally unqualified to be House Majority Leader...that's why.
First, when the public outcry came out...she should have walked away from the plan...and told the Administration to re-do it. If they couldn't...tough shit.
If the Administration and the GOP then blamed the Democrats for inaction...they could have a) used their own conservative base's opposition to beat the GOP over their head with, b) had a REAL discussion on how this problem was created, and c) started an investigation of Wall Street.
The Democrats should NEVER have appeared on tv yesterday by themselves. That was plain and simple...STUPID.
fastfeat @ 10:
I heard earlier today that they are changing her schedule and sending her to McCain's house to continue cramming for the debate. I guess she's not exactly ready just yet. I'm guessing that about now they are thinking her moose is cooked.
Min @ 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-pmpgrYQgs
jimbo92107 @ 12:
Barney Frank had a relationship with a higher up in Fannie Mae.
Nancy Pelosi is a well connected SF socialite.
Who do you think they are looking out for: you and I, or their friends with money? If you have to ask...
At this point, what really is the point. Dem/GOP we're screwed either way...
A question. Another law inacted in the 1930s was the ban for commercial companies to own utility companies. One of the results from the depression was that lots of utility companies failed when their parent companies went bancrupt. The utility companies had been used as dollar printing presses to to buy stock, leaving them wo money for maintenance.
This law was repealed by Bush a few years back. Does anyone know how this has worked out?
This is nothing more than legalized robbery for the rich... now lets see, it's not against the law to rob wall street, but you still can't smoke a joint. WTF !!!!
I don't trust the people working so hard to get this through so fast... no siree! I don't trust a single one of them. What's the rush? is right!!
Like Bobo and the Mustache of Self Regard, I occasionally have an imaginary conversation with a fictitious cab driver in order to pull a column out of my ass.
Bernie was one of that rare breed of taxi operators whose first language is English. He had 25 pounds of extra belly sitting in his lap and peeking out between the buttons of his Hawaiian shirt. Chewing on an unlit cigar, speaking in his unmistakable Dorchester (Dawchesteh) accent, he went off.
"Those politicians get all their money from the bankers and stockbrokers and rich people and like that, and that's who they're gonna take care of. What do I care if some guy who already made millions is gonna lose half of it? If I'm losing my job or my house they aren't gonna bail me out. Tough shit, pal, that's capitalism, am I right? But they've just got to grab more of my money to help out some snot noses in 3-piece suits.
"Now they're saying if they don't do it, there's gonna be a recession. Tell me about it. My business is already off twenty five percent and the fares barely pay for the gas anyway. How about giving me a bailout?
"Y'know, I was starting to feel okay about that colored fella after all, but now I'm not so sure. It seems like it's George Bush and the Democrats who behind this thing. I hear the Republicans are mostly against it. McCain's half wacko but he hasn't said he's all for it and if he really tries to stop it . . . "
In case you think I'm way out there on this, what David Sirota says. Which is what I'm saying. The Democratic party is following George W. Bush over a cliff. Again. The second time, the third time, and the fourth time -- it's still tragedy, not farce.
i just want the billionaires protected so i can enjoy all that "trickle down" economy............
McCain is live on every MSM stations spouting that "he's never been afraid of being in the arena to solve problems, that you have to be in the arena and not out on the campaign trail."
So, he's continuing to take credit for the bailout plan, rather than accept responsibility for its collapse last week. Un-be-lievable.
Gallup Poll: "Most Americans (78%) favor congressional action to help fix the current Wall Street economic crisis, but only about one in five think that should entail passing a plan similar to what the Bush administration has proposed."
right on! @ 25:
Indeed, have you seen them working one hundredth as hard to solve the health care crisis, the outsourcing crisis, the climate crisis, the education crisis, the crumbling infrastructure crisis, the rebuilding of New Orleans, the prosecution of the current administration for lies about starting an illegal war crisis, etc, etc, etc?
Heck if you look at it, the only times congress/senate has been burning the midnight oil were the shoveling of the Patriot Act down our throats, the Schiavo mess, and the bailing out of WallStreet.
So basically our representatives only work to enact fascist powers, appease the born again base, and steal our money for the elites to enjoy.
Which, basically, it is the Bush doctrine in a nutshell...
Any congressman received any anthrax letters yet?
the economy is going to crash either way... all these bandaides are just to prevent it from happening before the election.
the fannie and freddie bailout didnt fool anyone and this isn't either.
China wants a currency not dependent on the dollar... as does most of the wrold i'm sure.
once this bill passes we will be taking on 5.4 trillion of fannies debt, the 23ish billion from Wachovia, we've got the motor city bailout.
our dollar will plummet. China will run away. the bin laden's will run away. Mitsushi ULF will onload all their debt onto morgan stanley and whatever firms these foreign banks are buying.
we are so fucked... and all these people really care about is bailing out their buddies and a 1-2% increase in the polls.
Almost all need to be hung for treason.
lucid fiction @ 31:
I am surprised Kucinich is still alive to tell you the truth...
"I have to count myself in the camp that thinks this bailout bill is a trap by the Republicans to tie the Democrats to Bush/Paulson and paint themselves as the populists looking out for the little guy."
I think you can go to Vegas and get odds on the GOP doing exactly that. If during the next Presidential election, this and the huge debt that must be paid off isn't the lynch-pin of the GOP platform, I'll be amazed. That is to say, the bail-out or specifically the reason for the bail-out is all the Democrats fault. The GOP and the MSM in the tank for the GOP can rewrite history all they want but they can't change the facts that "trickle-down economics" doesn't work, deregulation and lack of oversight was stupid, the war in Iraq was not worth it and the sun rises in the east.
P.D. @ 3:
The theory is that acting quickly will help prevent additional bank failures. Many financial experts believe that if John McCain had not interfered with the process last week, that Wall Street confidence would have risen, a bailout plan would have been voted on by the House last week and that the failure of WaMu on Friday and Wachovia today may have been prevented. May have.
If you are going to quote Krugman, at least do your readers a favor and accurately portray his view. His current take (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/opinion/29krugman.html ):
"The bailout plan released yesterday is a lot better than the proposal Henry Paulson first put out — sufficiently so to be worth passing."
And on even last Friday:
"Many people on both the right and the left are outraged at the idea of using taxpayer money to bail out America’s financial system. They’re right to be outraged, but doing nothing isn’t a serious option."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZTdhY1GVE
Great image on tv yesterday.
The Democrats standing alone with...the Administration! LOL!
Now McCain will bellow that HE is standing against GW Bush.
Barack Obama doesn't have to worry about the GOP...his own party is going to do him in.
odendin @ 32:
What I don't understand is why are dems pushing this shite, while the GOP had the gall to pull out of it... and try to look as the heroes of the mess they are responsible for.
Are the democrats really that dumb?
If you compare the same situation between Hoover and FDR and the current McCain and Obama it is like night and day...
CMINCA @ 28:
Read Post #37
McCain can now say that it was because of HIM that a solution will be found. Wanna know why. Because the bill isn't even going to come to a vote. Pelosi has boxed herself in, because she has promised a "victory" for this bill as it stands. The GOP will not give her the votes...and then claim that they and John McCain are fighting for the people.
tjb @ 18:
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/financialsvcs_dem/press092808.shtml
But if the bill doesn't get passed, how is power and wealth going to be further concentrated amongs only the largest banks left standing? C'mon, people - use your heads!!!
So, without the GOP votes in favor...Pelosi cannot bring it to the floor and LOSE.
She is so easy to outflank...it's pathetic.
Buyer Beware!!
The last time Bush and his cronies scared the sh*t out the people in this country to get us to support them............We got the Iraq war. Good for them Bad for us!
This is more of the same........... The final F.U. before they leave office.
They have nothing to run on ..... (unless you admire corruption and stupidity).
They are going to break this country and then sit back and complain about everything the Democrats do trying fix it!
Hunt them all down and put them where they belong..... make an example of them!
Heck of a job Dumbya for putting our country last again and just wanting to bail out his buddies, the rich Reslug Pricks.
Liberal AND Proud @ 39:
In true Pelosi fashion she once again manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Why is she and the rest of the Dem leadership in both houses trying to save an administration with one of the lowest approval ratings in history.
The Democrats are simply IDIOTS. They do not understand that there is no interest on the GOP side for doing what is right for the country (and I am not implying that the bill is right..I am making a point).
It's only about POLITICS and winning elections...the GOP is amoral. They are not arguing for a better bill...they have to appease their constituents. Period.
The Democrats did not pay attention to THEIR constituents either. They took Paulson at his word that this is a crisis( the jury for me is still out), and then simply followed through with a knee jerk reaction.
DUMB DUMB DUMB.
I doubt the dems had to be pressured too much to do anything. But I'm sure they'll try to appear as though they were.
They have the opportunity right now to make this an acceptable bill with oversight and proper management but they won't.
Forgive me but they're either complicit criminals or they're cowards.
Which is it?
Tyler Durden @ 45:
Because they are political morons.
Nancy Pelosi has NO BUSINESS being Speaker of the House, and Harry Reid is a PATHETIC Senate Majority Leader.
Why do I get the feeling that both the republicks and Dems had a backroom deal agreeing to this so that the republicks could run on that platform and gain a few seats? For what reason I don't know, maybe to promise the presidential elections won't be rigged too bad maybe.
Nada @ 47:
LOL. You can't get oversight and proper management if you don't have a bill. They don't have a bill. The GOP is NEVER going to allow a winning vote. PERIOD.
Let's try to remember that these are crooks we are bailing out. Now explain again why we help crooks that have wrecked our economy? That's it, we don't!
No bailout unless it addresses every American's home first. And the first should be the people now sleeping in tents and in their parents garage or their grandma's barn. We don't give a damn what these crooks have done to their company. Let it go away if they have destroyed it, all the better.
Greed is apparently commonplace in our congress. Ms. Pelosi, do not let this debacle come to a vote. We the people have spoken, and you should listen, for once.
If the bill doesn't put the firewalls back in place, the ones that were removed to allow for all this lawlessness (Glass-Steagull, etc.), this will just be the Bush bailout. But, not to worry, some time early next year we'll be dealing with the "issues" again. Oh, boy!
this is what warren buffett has to say..bailout or melt down....
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/28/bailout.deal/index.html?eref=rss_...
That stuff trickling down is NOT money.
The best way for the Democrats to help Barack Obama is to NOT HELP HIM.
I'm getting a little fed up with this "shock doctrine" bullshit... as if it's new.
IT'S CALLED THE HEGELIAN DIALECTIC.
Create the problem, then have a ready-made solution.
They've only been doing this kind of stuff for THOUSANDS OF YEARS! But it took someone like Hegel to finally put it to words.
But no. You can't actualy USE the phrase "Hegelian Dialectic", because it's associated (ironically by the people that it describes) as being the domain of the "conspiracy theorists".
Wake up America.
Get away from the one-party system.
But there will be short term consequences of not passing a bill - dropping DOW, worsening credit crunch, etc. The dems would be able to hold up their hands and say, "we tried" while even Bush cannot support the house repugs.
Is this what the dems actually want, or are they truly just shills for WS?
People are still under the illusion that there are two parties that we are choosing between.
Look at both Obama and McCain. Their biggest contributors are banks. Both trample on civil liberties... just different ones. Both keep wanting to fight wars... Obama might as well be the liberal neoconsevative. The CIA has even said that Al Qaeda was made up and still it's the main talking point whenever terrorism is brought up.
It's all bullshit.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=power+of+nightmares&emb=0&aq=f#
The Power of Nightmares. Watch all 3 parts. I'm trying to get an exgirlfriend (who's a teacher) to show it to her class.
All these economic crap we're going through, is just going to be magnified by this universal healthcare (that the top dems said they wouldnt back if Barrack won), social security, fighting these fucking wars (Obama is on the Iran bandwagon, too, even after the EIE saying that Iran is not making or seeking nuclear bomb technology (even after Halliburton sold them the information in 04).
It's crap. All a charade.
People need to go outside. Stop working and stand on street corners. Don't buy anything and take all of our money out of the banks.
I hope you all have green thumbs because it's going to be hard to find food. If you need air or heat, invest... buy solar panels now.
Obama is not change. McCain is not change.
Same shit, different names.
If you want change... youre going to have to demand it. In person. We're already too late to prevent this collapse from happening. What happens after/during will dictate how you and your children live the rest of your lives.
Surging Blue Lensman @ 57:
The street is not going to collapse. The Fed will continue to pump liquidity into the markets, and the consolidation of banks will continue.
The INVESTMENT banks, the Wall Streeters, will crumble...and that's ok. Once their equity is reduced to an acceptable price, then foreign companies can buy them up. The Congress need not intervene...let the free market work.
If that means that the U.S. is up for sale....oh wellllllllllll...sucks to be us. Maybe we should vote Republican again.
I just heard John McCain claim to have had a major part in developing the bail-out legislation. He seems to not be sure of what his position is because he's waiting to find our what it should be from polling. Pathetic. He only knows the politics of smears and attacks and half-truths. A little dismaying.
By the way I heard him speak on MSNBC about 15 minutes ago.
HEY! I got an idea! Let's PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY!
That way we can enjoy the benefits of the free market! Just like we've enjoyed in our 401K plans and personal money market accounts!
Yeah...yeah...that's the ticket!
Actually what THEY are NOT telling anyone is it . . involves essentially a $1.5 trillion bailout, take over and a “guarantee” of a wide variety of US financial markets. The keystone of this bailout package is to provide $800 billion to purchase so-called “toxic mortgage paper” from banks and other financial institutions in order to re-liquefy marketplaces.
Temporary Fix at Best
Liberal AND Proud @ 62:
Let's privatize our public water companies too...and and...more Medicare...yeah yeah..Medicare...and Medicaid!...let's privatize the VA!!...oh oh...and then we can privatize the entire public school system...yeah yeah!!!
Someone... ANYONE... USe your contacts and STOP THIS BAIL OUT!
Here's what's happening...
America: Freedom to Fascism
For people who like learning visually rather than through reading alone.
L.A. Confidential @ 63:
Estimates range from $3 to $5 TRILLION dollars.
Oh...and that doesn't include the oncoming pension fund crash.
Orangutan. @ 66:
Actually it's basic DEBT Slavery. Like get a second job if you want to pay your internet and cell phone bill.
Tyler Durden @ 45:
I don't regard this as saving the Bush administration. I regard it as an attempt not to allow history, (the Great Depression), to repeat itself. I've been following this almost obsessively. I've read much on both sides of this issue. I've read financial proposals, economists' statements, I'm even in the middle of reading the 110 page proposed bill, (not fun reading, by the way).
I'm not convinced this will work. It may just be the equivalent of applying a band-aid where a turniquent is needed. However, to do nothing is completely irresponsible. This is affecting Main Street and it will not just trickle down, it will become an avalanche if not addressed. It must be addressed thoughtfully and deliberately, not hastily. In addition, there needs to be a reinstatement of regulations that have become eroded or non-existent. There needs to be an increase in the FDIC coverage to protect Main Street and to prevent the runs on the banks that have been occurring. There needs to be an increased vigilence, by the IRS, over the lax standards as they have been applied to total executive compensation. There are standards, but they have been virtually ignored by the IRS. Executive compensation packages should pass certain tests, but the compensation packages have been watered down to ENSURE payment to execs. Excessive compensation is not supposed to be a deductible business expense, but it has been. The IRS has not been doing their job either. Executive compensation normally requires a net profit not a net loss. All of these losses need to be adjusted to the accounting periods they occurred and executive compensation retroactively adjusted. Any unearned compensation should be converted to loans by the financial institutions to the executives. No profit, no bonus. Period.
There need to be some teeth associated with any plan. Fraud investigations and prosecutions. Nancy Pelosi is calling for this. I'm not a fan of Pelosi's, but I was impressed that she even mentioned this.
They want this so main street business can borrow money, unfreeze credit for them!
It seems to me Credit is what helped cause the problem in the first place.
Dump the Dem/Rep and vote Nader
Liberal AND Proud @ 59:
I know that extreme times call for extreme measures but this is rediculous!
Liberal AND Proud @ 64:
Maybe we can outsource both houses, I heard we can get some indian guy writing more legislation (some of which may actually be more useful than the current crap passed by the congress/senate) for 1/100th of the cost of our traditional all-American representatives/senators. It just makes business sense (tm).
Jack @ 65:
It's too late. You have a choice of poison.
Payoff Wall Street and have your balls taxed off...with NO benefits to you...no improved highways, no national healtchare...or don't pay them off and use the $1.25 left in your pension fund to retire on.
See...this is what the GOP and the free market are about! You have...a choice! Such personal freedom...don't you feel empowered!!
odendin @ 58:
guess its to late to get a real patriot for president DENNIS KUCINICH!
L.A. Confidential @ 68:
You don't have time for the cell phone and internet. Those are for the privileged and rich.
Now...GET BACK TO WORK...YA SLACKER.
Oh...I guess you'll be wanting Christmas Day off tooo.
I agree with everything in this piece except the last graf. A Shock Doctrine to push a progressive agenda is as bad as any other.
this is a one page read explains phil gramm's role in this
mess and how the financial institutions were 'betting'
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html
Liberal AND Proud @ 67:
It's the Derivatives, Stupid!
The Bank for International Settlements recently reported that total derivatives trades exceeded one quadrillion dollars – that’s 1,000 trillion dollars.3 How is that figure even possible? The gross domestic product of all the countries in the world is only about 60 trillion dollars. The answer is that gamblers can bet as much as they want. They can bet money they don’t have, and that is where the huge increase in risk comes in.
L.A. Confidential @ 78:
There is no money...that's how.
"It's only strips of paper" - George W. Bush
Liberal AND Proud @ 75:
My house, my cat, my car, my kids, but keep ur' dog gone hands off my internet and cell phone!
The collapse of sub-prime mortgage lenders has already happened. What we're talking about is the people who lent them money, and in turn, the people who lent them money. It would pretty much devastate the US and the world economy if we stiffed all the banks, domestic and foreign, who invested in securities from these firms.
Or put it in another way: I saved my money in Smallbank of Smalltown, who in turn, invested that money by buying securities from Lehman Brothers (formerly a well-reputed firm). Further, we can imagine that those securities weren't even backed by subprime mortgages. But since Lehman had a large amount of subprime, they've now gone bankrupt. And what you're saying is that Smallbank deserves to collapse, and me potentially lose my savings, because of Smallbank's 'bad business model'? That makes no sense.
Those parties immediately responsible for this disaster are already bankrupt and noone's trying to save them. It's about stopping the chain-reaction in the financial system.
Congresswoman: Criminal Insiders Behind Bailout Bill
http://www.infowars.com/?p=4944
"Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur boldly slammed the bailout bill this past weekend as the work of criminal insiders who have shut down the normal legislative process to commit “high financial crimes” and defraud the American people, while Rep. Michael Burgess warns that “martial law” has been declared."
Rep. Burgess: Congress “under Martial Law” to pass banker bailout bill
http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2008/09/28/rep-michael-burgess-we-are-und...
*Note: I would not have posted to Infowars, a controversial site, if I saw another "respectable" news site covering this. Please excuse this post in this instance for that reason.
Liberal AND Proud @ 59:
Please make sure you know what you are talking about before you post something like this. Wall Street is already collapsing. Read your history books about the crash in 1929 and the almost daily decline since September 15th. Who do you think invests in the market. Union pensions, for teachers, firefighters, government workers, individual pension plans for MAIN STREET. You act like no one but Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have any money in the market. The Fed is broke. That is one of the problems. Educate yourself.
Investment banks have already collapsed. Have you been living in a bubble? There is only ONE left. ONE.
My God, it is so embarrassing to be a Democrat these days and read such ignorance.
Jobs will be the first thing to go when businesses start cutting back. Small business owners are the largest employers in the U.S. Normally, they keep all of there money in one bank. Normally, they exceed the FDIC limit, because their largest expense is PAYROLL. I would like to see statistics on the number of individuals and small business that suffered because of bank closures such as Indy Mac.
Think. Wall Street is invested in by MAIN STREET. You may continue to act like you are immune, but you ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been thinking this exact same thing. The whole reason the shock doctrine works is that so much change is forced upon the public so quickly that people don't have time to react and they become paralyzed. I say turn-about is fair play. What's good for the goose, and all. Do the same thing to the conservative movement that they've been doing worldwide for decades. The first thing Obama should do upon inauguration is get Congress to enact a new fairness doctrine. Get the conservative noise machine back on their heels. Then just start ripping apart the machine that Cheney created as quickly as possible. Let everyone know that there's new sheriff in town.
I've sent letters to both of my senators and my representative, and I've called one of my senators. Mikulski said she was flat out against the bail out. We'll have to wait and see, however.
What is "money" backed up by, LA. C'mon you're a smart guy. Tell me.
Gold? Nooo. Bananas? Nooo. Prophylactics? Noo.
The FULL FAITH AND CREDIT of the United States.
Now...HOW funny is THAT! LOLOLOL!
Print away oh mighty bastions of finance. Print! Print! More money! Moooore mooore mooooore...BUWAHAHAHAHAHA!
watch the FDIC need a bailout very soon, then what?
Liberal AND Proud @ 79:
Lines and Digits on a computer screen.
Later. . I'm busy busy busy busy busy.
Congresswoman: Criminal Insiders Behind Bailout Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAADyc6t4nY
“Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur boldly slammed the bailout bill this past weekend as the work of criminal insiders who have shut down the normal legislative process to commit “high financial crimes” and defraud the American people, while Rep. Michael Burgess warns that “martial law” has been declared.“
Rep. Burgess: Congress “under Martial Law” to pass banker bailout bill
http://www.dailynewscaster.com.....rtial-law/
Suddenly, Americans are concerned about our country.
My friends on the left have been deeply concerned about our country for eight long years. Disaster after disaster they have been screaming but fallen on deaf ears.
Welcome to the real world concerned Americans. I hear the same from the drunk, bible thumping, radical right, neighbors and I tell them.
Told ya and welcome to our nightmare.
It’s your ideology stupid!
But you are too late with your concern and your candidate is stuck in this failed ideology.
Country last. Greed first.
CMINCA @ 82:
"Never get emotional about stocks, Gordon" - Charlie Scheen in Wall Street
Buffett saw this coming way in advance, so that qualifies him to be a genius to listen to, and he recently said that this bailout is needed.
shaggles @ 76:
There is quite a difference between conservatives creating the shock to further their interests by seeding panic, fear and uncertainty. And liberals using the shock of the fuckups by these conservatives to enable legislation to fix said fuckups.
Timewatcher @ 85:
Didn't you hear?
You get to work for free....in CHINA!
Hermina in Montreal @ 60:
I heard that too. He also framed it so that it was a criticism of Obama stating that you cannot work for America unless you are in the arena and that he (McCain) would rather be in the arena rather than campaigning.
He must have seen the Gallop polls to be delivering this message in such a hostile way:
Obama 50% (gain of 1%)
McCain 42% (loss of 2%)
Track who is for or against this heinous act against the people here:
http://track.nocashfortrash.org/
This looting is the Bush Administration's goodbye kiss to America. We the People is now We the Peons.
getalife @ 89:
It's the American way!
"delaying the collapse" I think you hit the nail on the head. The timing of Paulson dropping this long time coming disaster in the laps of our Reps confirmed that. Allow the Republicans who voted for deregulation to take "off their Republican uniforms" and run back to their district or state races to say "we voted against the bailout". They get to run away from 12 years of a Republican controlled congress during which most of the deregulation that created this mess was passed.
Really wonder why many of the Dems are going with this?
The CEO's of these companies have all ready taken their million dollar packages over the last several years knowing the likelihood that these companies would go down.
odendin @ 58:
Thanks for the great insight. Anyone that still thinks there is 2 parties is brain dead. All the political leaders are puppets of the central bankers. It is not Republican vs. Democrat, black vs. white, Christian vs. Muslum, or any other nonsense they use to divide and conquer, IT IS ELITES VS. EVERYONE ELSE.
The Elites must be stopped or we are doomed.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 95:
We're allll Golden Showerists NOW!
Repeat: the $700 billion figure is just some crap they pulled out of their asses. Many experts believe that it will be in excess of $5 trillion, but no one knows for sure because these toxic derivatives can be quite complicated.
Mmmm, this is exactly why I didn't want president dickhead to privatize Social Security. Imagine where those funds would be right now. Bush and his buddies would have stolen all of it to line their pockets, driving their companies broke, then asking for gov't welfare. Any republicans voters finally seeing the crap that has been sold to you by the GOP for thirty years? How's "trickle-down" working for you after thirty years of breaks for these asshole corporations?
Corporate America is worse than terrorism. The CEO killed by his own workers last week in India is the right direction. Mess with the longevity and earnestness of my country and you should die.
Mmmm, this is exactly why I didn't want president dickhead to privatize Social Security. Imagine where those funds would be right now. Bush and his buddies would have stolen all of it to line their pockets, driving their companies broke, then asking for gov't welfare. Any republicans voters finally seeing the crap that has been sold to you by the GOP for thirty years? How's "trickle-down" working for you after thirty years of breaks for these asshole corporations?
Corporate America is worse than terrorism. The CEO killed by his own workers last week in India is the right direction. Mess with the longevity and earnestness of my country and you should die.
Liberal AND Proud @ 84:
Well, that is the next logical step, isn’t it?
The numeric figures exist, but the dollars do not. To back up the numeric figures they must print more money. Wealth is not created or destroyed, it just changes hands. Money is not like wealth – it’s just a one pool in which to place it, and Money can be created. As the Fed necessarily prints more money to back FDIC et al, what the Dollar gets you decreases.
We’re in for some inflation it seems.
Remember that the Great Depression did not begin with the ’29 Crash. It took 2-3 years for the dominoes to fall. That’s what we’re seeing now, the fall of the first domino.
What do you think about this?
Video: Democrats insist “nothing wrong” at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac in 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=http://hotair.com/archiv...
Mission Accomplished. Spend so much taxpayer money on wars and bailouts so there will be NO money for such things as universal health care... and oh yeah we might HAVE TO privatize SS. Bush and the neocons won the class war!
This will be a disaster. The lobbyist and their billionaires win yet again. This is about saving the fortunes of people who should be rounded up as terrorists--bush has the power, you know. They committed economic treason. This is game, set and match for bin lauden. America as a superpower is dead, The republicans killed it and got rich in the process. Democrats, their accomplice, got an easer re-election.
Already people are finding out that the bill is extremely lax on executive's golden parachutes, and does nothing for homeowners. This was a money grab folks, your money:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcZSh1diQRQ&feature=related
So kids ...how many times did Mccain say Obama was 'right' about something? ... hmmm (think slim and none and slim just left town .. )
But how many times did Obama say Mccain was 'right" ...?
Lets see:
OBAMA: Well, I think Senator McCain's absolutely right that we need more responsibility ..
OBAMA: Well, Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process ...
And he's also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing ...
John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he's absolutely right....
John is right we have to make cuts...
Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops ...
And, John, I -- you're absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say ...
Now, Senator McCain is also right that it's difficult...
So obviously, our policy over the last eight years has not worked. Senator McCain is absolutely right ... ,
Taarak @ 102:
Maybe the government should set up a tourism trade. You know...free bus trips to Wall Street. Everyone gets a $10 and a free lunch in the Federal Reserve dining room.
Everyday of every week we are called upon to call or write or e-mail our congress just to get them to do what is right, and every time they thumb their nose at us while giving us any and every excuse they can think of. Why do we have to keep telling them right from wrong? I have been saying for a time now that we have a chance to vote every last one out into the street where they belong, now Ron Paul has come up with a "vote bomb" idea that just might work, I don't have a link but google vote bomb and you should find it. I turned on the tv after not watching it for 3 years or more and I can not believe the goofy, crazy and just plain stupid bullshit I saw there. What the hell is the matter with everyone? America, the land of the fucking stupid, The dumb shit I saw on tv says it's because of those child books about witchcraft and the use of a ouija board. What the hell has happend to everybody? Backward in time we go, just how far back is unknown, rock tools and witch doctor anyone?-CEO
CEO,citizens,eyes,open @ 109:
Or...you can simply join Sarah Palin's church.
facehead @ 91:
Americans need to learn that money does not equal brain power, correctness, or respect. In some cases it does, but having lots of money does not entitle your opinion to be automatically validated.
If that was the case we should be listening to thieves. Oh wait...
I find it ironic that people propose Buffet as a messiah, when he is one of the main reasons why we are in this mess. He made his fortune by speculating on the real work of other people.
Tyler Durden @ 111:
Corporations tell us what music to listen to, what clothes to wear, what toothpaste to use...why shouldn't they tell us how to handle our money.
Daisy Zimmerly @ 95:
Now???
This has been the American way all the way back to the 18th century.
People think the New Deal years were the norm, when in reality they were the exception if you look at American history.
And yet...no crowds in the streets, no marches on Washington, no demonstrations against George Bush.
Aren't we good little sheeple.
So long as no one takes away our cable tv and microwave meals.
We're a happy people.
Ron @ 106:
this is a one page read explains phil gramm's role in this
mess and how the financial institutions were 'betting'
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html
I've heard some people suggest it's the democrats fault
no one else is at fault....my question is where was the
SEC? my other question is who shut up eliot spitzer
when came out publicly about 'predatory lending'?
Liberal AND Proud @ 115:
So long as they don't take away our Happy Meals.
And for those of who can't connect the dots...let me connect the dots for you.
Do you think we're really gonna need a draft now? Heh...people will be lining up left and right at the recruiting stations to ensure a regular paycheck, clothes on their backs and food in their tummies.
Now...all we need is an enemy! Ohh...the Russians! Yeah...that's the ticket!!
With ZERO money for homeowners in trouble here's the headline for tomorrow's papers:
Congress to Taxpayers: Fuck You
Rob @ 103:
i've heard some people suggest it's completely the
democrats fault. couple questions where was the SEC
and who shut up eliot spitzer when he came out
publicly about 'predatory lending'?
The vote is taking place on CSPAN.
earl @ 107:
Indeed, I am willing to cut Obama some slack since I assume he was triangulating that if he did not kissed McCain's ass he would be painted as the "angry black man."
However, McCain (as an old white folk) saying Obama is an idiot makes him a straight talker.
The biggest issue with what passes for liberalism on this country (and Obama to me is a moderate conservative in the best case scenario) is that them liberals (again using the term loosely) are too worried about how the conservatives will frame them, rather than be more concerned about framing the conservatives. Which is the mistake which has allowed the left to be almost extinct in this country, when you worry more about what your enemy is going to say about you than to fight for your interests... you lose. Period.
Obama should have obliterated McCain in that debate, he was unable to close the deal, too polite to go for the kill. We are truly screwed...
So, in the meantime, where is this money coming from?
CMINCA @ 121:
Well, should be over quick. They don't have to count to 700 million.
Tyler Durden @ 33:
Don't forget Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) Toledo, OH. She's my hero in all this quagmire:
http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2008/09/28/marcy-kaptur-warns-there-are-d...
Liberal AND Proud @ 79:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZlWqVeLzg
We need to (I hope C&L does) post a list of the members of Congress who vote for and against this bill.
It's important to see who represents us and how they vote on important legislation that effects us.
If all elections used mandatory public financing I think the taxpayers would be getting their money's worth several thousand times over. The best antidote to this is compete and total campaign finance reform. The influence of moneyed interests corrupts or clouds every act made or opposed in the halls of power.
Max H @ 128:
They're gonna jump right on that.
Tyler Durden @ 122:
YOU might be correct i'm looking at it differently. mccain has ALL of this experience and obama is said to have next to NONE...mccain should "obliterated' obama
and he didn't.
Tyler Durden @ 122:
Agree.
Found myself yelling at my car radio:
"... WHAT ARE YOU DOING? MCCAIN ISNT RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING!..."
I can' think of anyone that has ever run for office that has had more experience in bailing out, than John McCain.
wow the DOW just dropped to -465
[Bush] said most if not all of the tax money spent to buy distressed mortgage-backed securities should be recouped when the Treasury sells them in the coming years.
In how many years? Do we get a time table or a "time horizon?"
constituent @ 133:
So?
---- Dr. Cheney.
Liberal AND Proud @ 132:
LOL
Liberal AND Proud @ 132:
LMAO
meanwhile even your oreo cookies are not made in the US
constituent @ 133:
That all?
Well, at least there's still optimism on Wall Street.
Hey...you got an extra $10 you can lend me...I'm thinking of buying Citibank.
constituent @ 133:
Anyone with a brain expects it to be a roller coaster this week.
Can we sell short yet? :)
Mike88i @ 134:
Yes. Long after George is out of office, and out of the country.
I'm constructing a concept for a new board game...Wall Street.
Whenever you pass GO, you collect $700 billion.
DOES ANYONE THINK THIS MATTERS?????
Whether it's the taxpayers paying to bail out whomever, does it really matter? We're $10 trillion in the hole already, what's another trillion? No one will ever pay that back, not in the next 10 generations. China will come by here and pick a state or two, make them a colony, and it will be settled.
But right now something needs to be done, and I find it apalling that House repugs don't want to be associated with this bill even though it was them who have been causing all of the fiscal problems that have befallen this country.
They pushed for and got deregulation. They (Reagan and Bush #1 got us on the downhill slide by creating record deficits, and after Clinton finally got us back and created a surplus that could have been applied to the national debt, these greedy and corrupt repugs decided they needed it more, and blamed Clinton for 'liberalism'. That has been their philosophy: More money in my pocket, I know better how to deal with my money and make me richer. The hell with balanced budgets. How many repugs ever talk about the deficits and the national debt? Not a one. They talk tax cuts, and when someone mentioned that it is patriotic to pay takes they completely lose it. Send Americans half-way around the world to get killed, maimed and disabled, but don't dare ask me to sacrfice anything beyond a magnet on my SUV.
Talk to them about the obscene salaries these company executives vote for themselves, and they claim 'free market', in other words 'whatever you can get away with'. WAMU just went under after hiring a new president, who was there for only three weeks, and will now get somewhere between $13.5 and $18 million for his three weeks of inconveniece.
They should add to the bill that no company executive will ever receive more than xx [insert a number here] times what the most common employee receives. If most employees are minimum wage, executives will get no more than xx times the minimum wage.
Food for thought
http://www.creators.com/featurepages/6_comics_wizard-of-id.html
http://www.dilbert.com/
Hey junk food's food too.
You can see that Bush knew this was coming since the mortgage crisis started a year ago; and all he offered was neglect and limp entreaties to do something about the mortgage problem. He knew he'd be a pathetic weak-ass president (well, even more so) if he was forced to deal with a year of this issue exploding. He holds it until 5 weeks befroe the election. I despise this man. PUT HIM IN JAIL.
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