Like someone said earlier, call the wambulance.

Shockingly irresponsible that they didn't admit that deregulation is at the heart of the problem.

It is shockingly irresponsible that the Corporate Media continues to pump this Mother of all Swindles for Fat Cats.

Oh wait, they are the Fat Cats.

Never mind.

Preznit Bust told his Republicans to vote for it. Rush Limbaugh told them to vote against it. Two-thirds of the republican reps voted the way Rush told them to, so I guess that tells you that Rush runs the Republican Party (or, rather, that whoever runs Rush runs the Republican Party). What better incentive to vote Democrat and put all these tools on the street (and I don't mean Wall Street, or even K Street)?

I heard him say "Yes, a few words from the House Speaker made them run and go back into their PARTISAN corners?"

I am shocked to be with the republicans on this. SHOCKED!

No one should be ashamed for voting against this scary ass bill!

Hornet @ 4:

First?

I don't know who transcribed that quote, or how fast they were going, but it's a bit hard to read.

Fourth, apparently!

The entire post is hard to read, actually. With all due respect to SilentPatriot, he needs to better edit his posts (or get himself an editor) before submitting them, I think. Hell, I'll do it!

Tom Delay was just on Hardball. When he got through saying all his tripe, Chris ended the segment by saying that Delay is no longer on the hill but he is still working behind the scene or something of that nature.

Who the hell cares what Delay thinks about anything these days.

I have always found Gergen to be rather sensible. He isn't exactly a dependable hack for either side.

According to a post at Kos, Newt was telling the republicans to vote against the bill until just before it failed when he came out with a statement supporting it. Is this a case of playing both ends for the middle?

the Republicans are doing 'merica a favor because the bail-out is a lie - a huge band-aid that will burst and shortly need replacing withyet another band-aid - say no to bailing out millionaires - take it another step - what if no one pays their mortgage - the people screw the bankers

Well, David Gergen is like ACDC - this time he's more on the side of Democrats.
He usually runs to whichever side seems to have the momentum and goes with the flow, Dem or Rep.

I certainly hope the Democrats are hard at work coming up with their own bill to alleviate this credit problem in the short-term without handing over the keys to the Universe to Paulson and Cheney.

Right! And when was the last time Nancy Pelosi MADE Republicans change their minds?
When was the last time any Democratic speech made Bush's Republicans change their (collective) minds?

Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla @ 20:

Why is this blog supporting the bailout of these Wall Street crooks? If there is 700 million to spend, why not give it directly to the homeowners who were swindled into taking high-risk credit arrangements which they really did not understand? The Democrats should be opposing this bill. It is likely to do much more harm than good since it will greatly inflate the dollar, with the very possible consequence of dollar dumping by the foreign banks from which our government have borrowed so much. What kind of Bizarro world is it in which the congressional Republicans actually do something right (if only effectively rather than on principle)? Just because Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi is pushing this thing doesn't mean that we need to tag along with her.

HEAR HEAR.

miss_kitty @ 23:

Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla @ 20:

Why is this blog supporting the bailout of these Wall Street crooks? If there is 700 million to spend, why not give it directly to the homeowners who were swindled into taking high-risk credit arrangements which they really did not understand? The Democrats should be opposing this bill. It is likely to do much more harm than good since it will greatly inflate the dollar, with the very possible consequence of dollar dumping by the foreign banks from which our government have borrowed so much. What kind of Bizarro world is it in which the congressional Republicans actually do something right (if only effectively rather than on principle)? Just because Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi is pushing this thing doesn't mean that we need to tag along with her.

HEAR HEAR.

DITTO!!!!
Where's the outrage on the sellout Dems?

.

Bailout = Robbery.

It is fascinating; the Dems are doing the wrong thing by subsuming to the biding of a president belonging to the opposite party with a 20-something approval rate. And the GOPers end up doing the right thing, but for the wrong reasons.

Sort of illustrates why we are fucked... don't it?

Bailout is a typical Bush scare tactic and this blog fell for it....

Dow has 3rd highest point gain in history..

j @ 26:

I agree with the comments about the editing... yes, spelling nazi or whatever, but the fact is a lot of us on the left laugh it up when the right holds signs that say "get a job, morans" but many of us are just as bad. Plus, using correct spelling and grammar just makes things easier to read!

Apostrophes are not necessary to form a plural... their/they're/there are 3 different words...

Thank you. I'll be more carefull with my speeling and to talk good grammar from know on.

Hurray for the GOPukes and 1/3 of the dems who didn't cave on this one.

so a dead cat bounce can count as a point gain? sure, as long as you ignore the previous day.

dank @ 35:

Hurray for the GOPukes and 1/3 of the dems who didn't cave on this one.

Right on!

Gergen's Dog won't hunt...

Bush, Bernanke and Paulson are Hyping the Crisis...

Video: Rep. Marcy Kaptur Today on Wall Street Bailout

Dow went up 485+ points...

If things were really dire, the Market would continually reflect it.

Bush & Cheney are on their Shock Doctrine kick again..

King of Kings @ 2:

They were supposed to betray their constituents?

That money belongs to the people, NOT THE NEW WORLD ORDER!

I'm glad they didn't pass it, but if they were going to vote for it but didn't because of Pelosi they are too juvenile to be elected officials. Simple as that.

Glen @ 36:

Pelosi's speech is good whether you support the bailout or not. It is a damn accurate assessment of how we got in this mess. Republicans have augured this country into the ground.

Whether you support the bailout or not - can you honestly trust the Republican party to support the average American citizen? They never have before.

That speech, while accurate was a sample of the unbelievable incompetence that has characterized her entire tenure:
-It was way too late to the dance. (Where was she last year when card companies were tightening credit...A sure sign of trouble.)
-Bad timing. (Duh.)
-Handed the opposition a perfect excuse for the "failure". (Actually the failure was a victory but that's another story.)

Global Evildoer Fighter @ 41:

Gergen's Dog won't hunt...

Bush, Bernanke and Paulson are Hyping the Crisis...

Video: Rep. Marcy Kaptur Today on Wall Street Bailout

Dow went up 485+ points...

If things were really dire, the Market would continually reflect it.

Bush & Cheney are on their Shock Doctrine kick again..

Sometimes I think these people are like the little boy who cried wolf one too many times...

Yes, it is a serious situation but----

We are run by incompetents who use crisis after crisis to shove down our throats their inept and ill-conceived strategies.....

Didn't 95 Democrats vote against it as well? They aren't responsible for derailing it too? If we do pay a huge price those Dems don't bear responsibility along with the Republicans?
I'm against the bailout myself, so I think those Dems and Repubs who voted against it were right. After the Wall Street bankers empty their portfolios to chip in to the bailout then I'll consider using money from taxpayers who are getting screwed again.
Gergen is delusional if he thinks the Dems don't bear some responsibility for this vote.

Why give a fuck about Gergen?
he's an apostle of the status quo.
He's for the bankers, all the way.
Just like McC(umst)ain and Obailout--ooops, sorry, he's calling it a 'rescue' now, too.

Go figger.

"Why is this blog supporting the bailout of these Wall Street crooks? If there is 700 million to spend, why not give it directly to the homeowners who were swindled into taking high-risk credit arrangements which they really did not understand? The Democrats should be opposing this bill. It is likely to do much more harm than good since it will greatly inflate the dollar, with the very possible consequence of dollar dumping by the foreign banks from which our government have borrowed so much. What kind of Bizarro world is it in which the congressional Republicans actually do something right (if only effectively rather than on principle)? Just because Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi is pushing this thing doesn’t mean that we need to tag along with her."

Quoted for truth!

With much fanfare, but little in the waqy of actual details, something to "rescue" wallstreet will "pass" on thursday or friday.
Bet on it...
they ain't gonna spend their re-election recess doing the people's bidness.
No fuukin way...

Eric Cantor looks like my loan broker with the alligator smile.

Meat @ 14:

Alice X - (Click Here for Nader Debate What If) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 3:

Shockingly irresponsible that they didn't admit that deregulation is at the heart of the problem.

It is shockingly irresponsible that the Corporate Media continues to pump this Mother of all Swindles for Fat Cats.

Oh wait, they are the Fat Cats.

Never mind.

I appreciate that few of us are economic experts (I am not one myself), but I'm nonetheless surprised by all of the people who happen to be glad that the bill failed. When it did, the US markets collapsed even further, sinking into oblivion. And now the rest of the world seems poised to follow suit.

No one likes the bill. But many intelligent experts seem to think that it's far better than nothing, and it would seem that the actions of worried investors would substantiate that hypothesis.

We can go about flogging the crappy engineers once the ship is safely back in port.

And the irretrievably disconsolate market is what, wait, it is back up by 485.21.

The market is driven by fear and greed, it can turn on a dime.

The Democratic Congress needs to address the concerns of the people. Do something about the 10,000 mortgages a month going into default and the bubble up process will benefit the bankers.

As it stands, the Bankers only need to say lets not lend any money (oh by the way there is plenty of money to lend, I just took 10k unsecured into a checking account, no problem) and they just say it and the screws are in.

Speaking from the standpoint of the Bankers: King Hank I, Henry the former Chief of Goldman Sachs and until recently Secretary of the Treasury but now King of Washington, that Henry will get the Congress to give us boatloads of money for these worthless securities.

We knew they were worthless and we knew that the Congress would bail us out, because WE bought the best Congress that money can buy!

Here, read Glenn Greenwald.

Our Government is corrupt. It is only that we are near the election that they are paying attention.

I will continue to scream bloody murder over this outrageous Mother of all Swindles.

Pointing fingers in the balme game is not the kind of leadership we require at the moment.
There never was any question that Obama had the leadership qualities to lead the nation in either good times or bad and yes, something has to be done with regard to the economy. However, using the American tax payer as the lender of last resort has to end and this is why so many of us are outraged over the Bush/Paulson plan and I was being kind to Bush in even mentioning his name as I wonder at times if he even ties his own shoe laces.
Ever since the Federal Reserve was created banks under its control would lend out nine dollars for every one taken in and eventually the ponzi scam you create falls apart because somewhere along the way a borrower gets sick, or dies, or loses his job and funds that were borrowed can't be paid back. Multiply this process millions of times over decades, add in the cost of a few wars that aren't budgeted for and you have the recepie for a financial disaster.
So where do we go from here? We need look no further than the framework that the founders of our country created. We can start by resurecting a NEW banking system under the US Constitution that at first would run in paralell to the OLD Federal Reserve system and begin printing new US Treasury notes that are backed by both the gold and silver the country owns. That is what puts the good faith and credit of our country back behind the dollar. We would only require perhaps 100 billion not 700 billion to cover money market accounts and banks so that the credit markets can be unfrozen. Exisitng banks would become New Treasury banks and in time, the monster known as the Federal Reserve like the vampire it is will shrivel and die when the light of day and real money have been accepted by the people and the world.
That is how you instill confidence in both the banks and government. Not by running around like a chicken without its head stating that the sky is falling and if you Joe and Jane six pack don't cough up 700 billion your all going to hell in a hand basket.
Secondly, put in place individuals who have NO vested interest in the outcome other than serving we the American people.Paulson was brought up in an atmosphere in which profit at all expense was the name of the game at Goldman Sachs. We need people who will do what is right for the country and not what is good for private sector banking and brokerages on Wall Street.
All of the above can be accomplished in a short period of time an it will require we the tax payers and owners of OUR government to help. But first, Congress must increase the value of our gold which they have kept intentionally low at the fire sale price of $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says it is worth $900.
Third. We must end the influence of big money interests on K street from buying favors and votes from those we elect to do the peoples business. Any less than this, and nothing will ever change.
This can be done with the proper leadership and those who have been responsible for this mess from Wall Street to government must be held to account in a court of law. if we are truly a country of law that the rest of the world looked up to, then where we find ourselves today is a sad commentary on where we have come from as long as we allow mans greed and avarice to destroy what our forefathers died for in giving us. The time to act is now, with force and resolve to move forward. It will take everyones effort. But in the end, we can build a greater country built on the principals of the founders. We can create new industry around alternative green energies and least of all we can bring back to the manufacturing sector good paying jobs and technologies that will provide a launching pad for all who wish to work and support their families. Education of the masses is key to this objective and just as we as individuals have to live within our means, so must government. To do otherwise will leave us to be nothing more than a thrid rate country. The time to act is now, and I sincerely hope that Obama and others are the answer to an even greater furture for our country.

frank verismo @ 58:

Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla @ 20:

Why is this blog supporting the bailout of these Wall Street crooks? If there is 700 million to spend, why not give it directly to the homeowners who were swindled into taking high-risk credit arrangements which they really did not understand? The Democrats should be opposing this bill. It is likely to do much more harm than good since it will greatly inflate the dollar, with the very possible consequence of dollar dumping by the foreign banks from which our government have borrowed so much. What kind of Bizarro world is it in which the congressional Republicans actually do something right (if only effectively rather than on principle)? Just because Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi is pushing this thing doesn't mean that we need to tag along with her.

All reasonable questions. However:

All we really need to know to understand the 'meltdown':

If your country is operating with a 'fiat' currency (i.e. backed by nothing) then you are living in a 'debt' economy.

A debt economy is wholly run by private international bankers, acting as the receivers for a bankrupt nation.

The bankers ensure that this state of bankruptcy remains permanent.

As the nation has no substantive wealth (e.g. gold reserves) the government is forced to put its own people up as the collateral.

The people, through instruments such as birth certificates, social security numbers etc enter into a system of voluntary servitude, as prescribed in the 13th and 14th Amendments.

The wealth of the country is then converted into the tools (and human resources) the bankers need to force this system onto the remaining countries of the World.

When a given country has served its purpose, its economy may be crashed in order to force an economic merger with its neighbors. This not only makes things much tidier for the bankers, it moves them closer to World government - the final merger of all trading blocks into one global system - an unopposed oligarchy of masters over serfs - global feudalism.

Any questions?

So when McCain says that the economy is fundamentally sound, it is because of the hard working Americans that have been sold out in slavery to pay off our bad debt.

Congressional Federal Holidays

1. New Year’s Day, January 1.
2. Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr., the third Monday in January.
3. Inauguration Day, January 20 in the year after a presidential election; the next is in 2009.
4. Washington’s Birthday, the third Monday in February.
5. Memorial Day, the last Monday in May.
6. Independence Day, July 4.
7. Labor Day, the first Monday in September.
8. Columbus Day, the second Monday in October.
9. Veterans Day, November 11.
10. Thanksgiving Day, the fourth Thursday in November.
11. Christmas Day, December 25.

House Schedule

January 15 110th Congress, 2nd Session convenes
January 21 Martin Luther King, Jr. Day
February 18 Presidents Day
February 19 - 22 Presidents Day District Work Period
March 9 Daylight Savings Time Begins
March 17 St. Patrick's Day
March 17 - March 28 Spring District Work Period
March 23 Easter
April 20 Passover
May 11 Mother's Day
May 26 Memorial Day
May 27 - May 30 Memorial Day District Work Period
June 14 Flag Day
June 15 Father's Day
June 30 - July 3 Independence Day District Work Period
July 4 Independence Day
August 11 - September 5 Summer District Work Period
September 1 Labor Day
September 26 Target Adjournment
September 30 Rosh Hashanah
October 9 Yom Kippur
October 13 Columbus Day
November 2 Daylight Savings Time Ends
November 4 Election Day
November 11 Veterans Day
November 27 Thanksgiving Day
December 22 Hanukkah
December 25 Christmas Day

I think its time we called our Representatives and Senators what they really are, SLACKERS !

Everyone that voted against the the Bailout did the right thing, no matter what reasons they did it for, they did the right thing. Let the market fall, let the free market economy take it's course, if this is the end of the empire then so be it, you can't keep using toothpicks to prop it up. The economy will either learn to stand on it's own feet, or it wont, but printing up more IOU's will never fix it, because you are not fixing anything, you just keep buying time and as in anything, the longer you wait the worse it will be. That change everyone is chanting for is happening right now, let it take it's course and you will see how resilient this country is, or isn't.

So Kudos to everyone that voted against the Bailout!

Meat @ 14:

Alice X - (Click Here for Nader Debate What If) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 3:

Shockingly irresponsible that they didn't admit that deregulation is at the heart of the problem.

It is shockingly irresponsible that the Corporate Media continues to pump this Mother of all Swindles for Fat Cats.

Oh wait, they are the Fat Cats.

Never mind.

I appreciate that few of us are economic experts (I am not one myself), but I'm nonetheless surprised by all of the people who happen to be glad that the bill failed. When it did, the US markets collapsed even further, sinking into oblivion. And now the rest of the world seems poised to follow suit.

No one likes the bill. But many intelligent experts seem to think that it's far better than nothing, and it would seem that the actions of worried investors would substantiate that hypothesis.

We can go about flogging the crappy engineers once the ship is safely back in port.

Nevermind the rebound today and the lack of confidence that a bailout would provide positive results! I, for one, can't wait to sell out my unborn gradchildren so banking tycoons can mover their debt bubble scam to some unsuspecting thrid-world country so they can start over!

After all, the rich are the bastions of the American Way, and if we don't protect their lifestyles, well... that's like saying you don't believe in the American Way, right? And then the terrorists win yadda yadda yadda.

We've heard it before, man. Sell it somewhere else.

woody, tokin librul @ 68:

ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 62:

One thing that stunned me this morning, while watching the local Fox affiliate in HD.

They mentioned that Congress was on holiday today, THE DAY AFTER they scuppered the bail out.

and its not an American public holiday,...

Congress and most of its members are a F***ing joke, they dont care one iota about the economy or the people.

By the same token why should they suspend business for "Christmas?" Just because the sect of the blood/death cult celebrating the feast is the more numerous?

This is a secular state. It should not 'celebrate' any sectarian holidays. NONE. Not "Christmas," not "Rosh Hashana," not "Eid," not the Dalai Lama's birthday, not Ganesh's recapitulation. All of it is inapproprate for a secular state and a secular society.

agreed, time to separate state and religion once and for ever.

i can't believe i'm about to say this, but i've been agreeing w/gergen for a while now...

Mark @ 70:

I'm fucking pissed off at CNN. They are completely trying to spin this Bail out as necessary. Obviously CNN is controlled by interests who want the money form the bailout.

Five big holding MIC type companies own 90% of the US media, and prob have stock int he banks themselves,

would be good to see a subtexted disclaimer stating which bank or financial company a particular TV network is related to.
Would put some of their BS advice and punditry into a new light.

UrinationNation @ 67:

Everyone that voted against the the Bailout did the right thing, no matter what reasons they did it for, they did the right thing. Let the market fall, let the free market economy take it's course, if this is the end of the empire then so be it, you can't keep using toothpicks to prop it up. The economy will either learn to stand on it's own feet, or it wont, but printing up more IOU's will never fix it, because you are not fixing anything, you just keep buying time and as in anything, the longer you wait the worse it will be. That change everyone is chanting for is happening right now, let it take it's course and you will see how resilient this country is, or isn't.

So Kudos to everyone that voted against the Bailout!

I was pondering reasons why the Republican Reps and some Dems, voted overwhelmingly no,
partly ideology, partly a fear of loss of power.
One of the jobs of the House Of Representatives is money allocation,
Paulson or Chimpy or any Czar bypassing them seriously undermines their role, they could become a mere symbolic debating chamber.
Some of them must think this way.

Mark @ 70:

I'm fucking pissed off at CNN. They are completely trying to spin this Bail out as necessary. Obviously CNN is controlled by interests who want the money form the bailout.

Well, YEAH?!?!?! Duh...
In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.

C'mon, say it with me: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.
Again: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.
All together now!: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.

Yeah!!!!
All commercial media outlets, and all the ones claiming to be non-commercial, too, are the designated propaganda disseminators of the Corporate State.
very public utterance dircted at 'the people,' either commercial, entertainment, or informative, is always already propaganda for the status quo.

Protecting the power of the status quo is the entire function of the State...

an interesting 18 page excerpt

woody, tokin librul @ 79:

Mark @ 70:

I'm fucking pissed off at CNN. They are completely trying to spin this Bail out as necessary. Obviously CNN is controlled by interests who want the money form the bailout.

Well, YEAH?!?!?! Duh...
In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.

C'mon, say it with me: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.
Again: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.
All together now!: In the Corporate State, corporate media are State Media.

Yeah!!!!
All commercial media outlets, and all the ones claiming to be non-commercial, too, are the designated propaganda disseminators of the Corporate State.
very public utterance dircted at 'the people,' either commercial, entertainment, or informative, is always already propaganda for the status quo.

Protecting the power of the status quo is the entire function of the State...

'We the People' ah I remember the days...

I see a lot of hand-wringing from the usual suspects about how the bailout bill is imperfect and outrageous, but necessary. We are assured by Bush, and by supposedly more serious people, that this bill is essential to saving the nation's economy. I see it as the Shock Doctrine writ large, with turncoat cheerleaders in both parties. Act now or we will face certain disaster, the "experts" assure us. Now when have I heard that before?

It's about time the crybabies and idiots on both sides of the aisle realize that THE VILLAGERS ARE STARTING UP THE HILL TOWARD THE CASTLE.

That's why a lot of these robots in congress are voting against this scam.

And believe me, if Obama really believes we need this bailout, this country is DEAD.

Might as well start the burying process now.

One more thing, ALL the MSM is going to try to scare you...DONT LISTEN! If the markets go down it will remove the shackles from our ancles..its will be tuff but we will make it. THE RICH FAT CATS WILL LOSE!:)

Go to the Campaign for liberty website and get organized, we are hitting congress with everything. We need a real currency with no debt or interest attached.

"There are no accidents in politics", said Joseph P. Kennedy to a reporter in 1960. (full quote:"We're going to sell Jack like soap flakes. There are no accidents in politics.") LBJ and FDR have been purported to have said the same thing.

'Shockingly irresponsible'.....

I would say that appropriately describes not only the current Congress, but also the last one and all of the Bush Government. It seems irresponsibility has become a disease endemic to Capital Hill for the last eight years and Dick Cheney and George Bush are the carriers who introduced it. Speaking of Dick, how come we haven't heard from him over this little 'crisis'? Is he hunkered down in a bunker at some undisclosed location riding out the remainder of their regime?

JerryO @ 93:

'Shockingly irresponsible'.....

I would say that appropriately describes not only the current Congress, but also the last one and all of the Bush Government. It seems irresponsibility has become a disease endemic to Capital Hill for the last eight years and Dick Cheney and George Bush are the carriers who introduced it. Speaking of Dick, how come we haven't heard from him over this little 'crisis'? Is he hunkered down in a bunker at some undisclosed location riding out the remainder of their regime?

I have a suspicion they revive him for public outings, otherwise he lives in a cryo chamber.

The problem with the the Republican right-wing nuts that infest the congress is that they have the same mind-set as the mullahs in Iran. They cling to their medieval political, social, and economic orthodoxy regardless of the disastrous impact their agenda has on the people of their respective nations. Unfortunately, there is a substantial portion of the American people who foolishly support right-wing nuts in the government and the media even when they their own self-interests are being undermined.

What's C&L's point?
Stopping this was a good thing. Here is Dennis Kucinich (my hero) on the subject
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/29/stream
Lets examine the problem, attach solutions to the 700 Billion and not just a rushed panic vote like the Patriot Act.

ps.
Anybody have a link to or list of the people that voted against it? They should be given a round of applause, Rep and Dem alike.

Do you know what kills me? Most people in this country think this bailout is a BAD idea. Yet, the media has been drinking the KoolAide and threatening us with annihilation. The RESPONSIBLE thing to do is to vote out these asshats and replace them with fiscally responsible people.

I'm happy they voted it down. I didn't want to increase the debt by 10% without any evidence that this will help anything. Plus, where is the goddamn free market? Aren't companies that suck supposed to go out of business? Socialism for the rich is worse than trickle down.

Fuck that. Gergen can bite me.

another tim @ 37:

so a dead cat bounce can count as a point gain? sure, as long as you ignore the previous day.

Been trading have we? You'll get better after the first few days.

By definition today was not a "dead cat bounce". Such an effect is limited to 5-15 poercent of a takeback. Today would be properly classified as a recovery.

all i know is the Grand Old Perverts are a bunch of petty cock smokers and you can't get a straight answer from anyone these days. there is no right or wrong anymore, everything is done for political reasons and morons permeate the entire government now

so we now have any idiocracy

MK Ultra @ 104:

Why have all the democratic and leftist blogs thrown their support behind Bush and and rip off plan?

Even if the idiot republicans shot this down for the wrong reasons they did us a favor.

. the plan the dems were behind was not that two and a half page mess first brought to the table. the second one where the dems were trying to get better for the taxpayers was derailed by McCain throwing politics into the mix. the third was supposed to be dressing some of the concerns on both sides. is doing nothing an option we can afford. the average American will pay the price.

ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 94:

Johnny2Bad @ 86:

ferrofluid (Obama + Biden = 2008) @ 62:

Congress and most of its members are a F***ing joke, they dont care one iota about the economy or the people.

Tell me something. I understand McCain's obviously massive Wall Street bribery money make him a perfect whore for the bailout:

Merrill Lynch $298,413
Citigroup Inc $269,251
Morgan Stanley $233,272
Goldman Sachs $208,395

But how can you support Obama and Biden when its obvious they are both pimping this criminal trillion dollar bailout because they too are in the pocket of Wall Street?

Goldman Sachs $691,930
Citigroup Inc $448,599
JPMorgan Chase $442,919
Lehman Brothers $370,524

Its the lesser of two evils, with Democrats come social programs and an attempt at an equitable society,
Republican governments as proved by them over the last 50 years just comes corruption and slavery.

Sorry. Not good enough for me. Evil is evil.

What kills me is that no one pol or media member was even thinking about this until Bush deemed it was a crisis. Not during the Glass-Steagall repeal, not during the Bankruptcy Bill atrocity. Only now, when a couple of big Wall Street firms go down.

Where were the miserable elite scum while people were losing their jobs and their houses? The crisis has been here, taking root. A few in power caused it, and the rest just ignored it.

Read Greenwald. Just like FISA, they'll pass a bailout bill, and us great unwashed will be left out. Count on it...

Meat @ 115:

Kucinich_Nader_Gavel @ 102:

Meat @ 14:

Alice X - (Click Here for Nader Debate What If) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 3:

I appreciate that few of us are economic experts (I am not one myself), but I'm nonetheless surprised by all of the people who happen to be glad that the bill failed. When it did, the US markets collapsed even further, sinking into oblivion. And now the rest of the world seems poised to follow suit.

No one likes the bill. But many intelligent experts seem to think that it's far better than nothing, and it would seem that the actions of worried investors would substantiate that hypothesis.

We can go about flogging the crappy engineers once the ship is safely back in port.

Not only are you a self proclaimed "economic expert" (as if that is required to understand what is going on) but you apparently have a very short term memory. The day after "the markets collapsed even further" they made up the lion's share of that decline. Last week the Dow had a one thousand point swing in the course of two or three days.

See if you can remember back ten days. Paulson and Bernake were warning us that things would collapse "within days". The Dow is actually 2 percent higher today than it was then. Volatility is the rule.

Now I'm not denying there is a problem. But

1) The "credit crunch" has yet to hit the so called "Main Street". Look at the "examples" of the people and businesses who "can't get credit". Every one of them poor risks or up to their eyeballs in debt. Credit is SUPPOSED to be hard to get. If you've got a halfway decent or even average credit rating and you're house isn't over-mortgaged you can get an equity loan or car loan in days. Call around. I did.

2) When and if (or hopefully prior to) when it does, there are better fairer ways of aleviating it than buying up any or all of the bad debt. Injecting equity into banks or other lenders marked specifically for the purpose of certain types of loans. Directly lending to borrowers. Buying the existing bad debt is about the least cost effective way to do it and has no effect upon helping the defaultees either.

Plain and simple, if you messed up you eat your losses. Personal responsibility. Isn't that what both parties (but more the Thuglicans) have been preaching for years?

Sigh.

Firstly, I indicated that I am no economic expert. Secondly, what does being a snide asshole solve? I was respectful with what I wrote, whereas you're being absolutely condescending and snide. Whatever hostilities you are carrying with you, I would ask that you stop directing at me.

The markets did bounce back somewhat. Do you know why? Most experts attribute this to the talk of a new bill hitting the table, and dubbed it "cautious optimism." People are investing because they are hoping against hope that a bill will come along that will make their investments something more than absolutely worthless.

And even if the markets did bounce back somewhat (far from fully), I doubt that you'd contend that the crisis is over and we can all go home. Far from it. The fact remains that things are going to get worse before they get better. It's difficult to find any economist or investor or businessperson who will tell you otherwise.

Personal responsibility? Attempting to apply morality to the ebb and flow of the American dollar is like trying to reason with a natural disaster: it's pointless. You can put on a cap of moral righteousness and tell those crooks suffer, but the fact remains that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. Save these American businesses, then deal with all of those crooks responsible.

Oops. Screwed up a tag. [Post removed-Sitemonitor]

Meat @ 116:

Ronin Tetsuro @ 69:

Meat @ 14:

Alice X - (Click Here for Nader Debate What If) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 3:

I appreciate that few of us are economic experts (I am not one myself), but I'm nonetheless surprised by all of the people who happen to be glad that the bill failed. When it did, the US markets collapsed even further, sinking into oblivion. And now the rest of the world seems poised to follow suit.

No one likes the bill. But many intelligent experts seem to think that it's far better than nothing, and it would seem that the actions of worried investors would substantiate that hypothesis.

We can go about flogging the crappy engineers once the ship is safely back in port.

Nevermind the rebound today and the lack of confidence that a bailout would provide positive results! I, for one, can't wait to sell out my unborn gradchildren so banking tycoons can mover their debt bubble scam to some unsuspecting thrid-world country so they can start over!

After all, the rich are the bastions of the American Way, and if we don't protect their lifestyles, well... that's like saying you don't believe in the American Way, right? And then the terrorists win yadda yadda yadda.

We've heard it before, man. Sell it somewhere else.

Like I said to the other self-righteous, moral crusader: Stop conflating morality and economics. It is possible to punish those responsible while also saving American businesses. It strikes me as--I'm sorry--patently stupid to let the boat you're on sink so that the terrible, corner-cutting engineers on board can also drown.

Oh, and any number of articles on the subject will speak of how confidence went up because there was talk of a new bill hitting the table.

Furthermore, I'm sick and tired of the arrogance of every anti-bill individual who comes along. Hopping on a soapbox, telling me how I just love to sell out future generations and save crooks in big business? Please. I can barely pay my own damn bills. I struggle. And I'm not even an American! I live in Canada. I am probably, technically, below the damn poverty line. There are things that people don't want to do, but things that are nonetheless necessary in their eyes. Your rhetorical tactics, your emotional appeals - don't pull that nonsense and then act as though someone else is using Rovian tactics. Think about what you say. You can disagree that the bailout will help, or that the economy will collapse without it, but appreciate that this is a complex subject and not one that can be whittled down to 'They're stupid fat cats who hate poor people and children and I'm just the average Joe.' Jesus Christ.

Meat @ 117:

Meat @ 116:

Ronin Tetsuro @ 69:

Meat @ 14:

Nevermind the rebound today and the lack of confidence that a bailout would provide positive results! I, for one, can't wait to sell out my unborn gradchildren so banking tycoons can mover their debt bubble scam to some unsuspecting thrid-world country so they can start over!

After all, the rich are the bastions of the American Way, and if we don't protect their lifestyles, well... that's like saying you don't believe in the American Way, right? And then the terrorists win yadda yadda yadda.

We've heard it before, man. Sell it somewhere else.

Like I said to the other self-righteous, moral crusader: Stop conflating morality and economics. It is possible to punish those responsible while also saving American businesses. It strikes me as--I'm sorry--patently stupid to let the boat you're on sink so that the terrible, corner-cutting engineers on board can also drown.

Oh, and any number of articles on the subject will speak of how confidence went up because there was talk of a new bill hitting the table.

Furthermore, I'm sick and tired of the arrogance of every anti-bill individual who comes along. Hopping on a soapbox, telling me how I just love to sell out future generations and save crooks in big business? Please. I can barely pay my own damn bills. I struggle. And I'm not even an American! I live in Canada. I am probably, technically, below the damn poverty line. There are things that people don't want to do, but things that are nonetheless necessary in their eyes. Your rhetorical tactics, your emotional appeals - don't pull that nonsense and then act as though someone else is using Rovian tactics. Think about what you say. You can disagree that the bailout will help, or that the economy will collapse without it, but appreciate that this is a complex subject and not one that can be whittled down to 'They're stupid fat cats who hate poor people and children and I'm just the average Joe.' Jesus Christ.

Well, if you live in Canada, STFU. American's made an American mess and Americans are responsible for cleaning it up.

Meat @ 114:

miss_kitty @ 23:

Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla @ 20:

Why is this blog supporting the bailout of these Wall Street crooks? If there is 700 million to spend, why not give it directly to the homeowners who were swindled into taking high-risk credit arrangements which they really did not understand? The Democrats should be opposing this bill. It is likely to do much more harm than good since it will greatly inflate the dollar, with the very possible consequence of dollar dumping by the foreign banks from which our government have borrowed so much. What kind of Bizarro world is it in which the congressional Republicans actually do something right (if only effectively rather than on principle)? Just because Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi is pushing this thing doesn't mean that we need to tag along with her.

HEAR HEAR.

Uh, let's assume for a moment that Congress could pass a bill that gave every 'working-class American' a bunch of cash. It wouldn't solve the problem, or even help to keep the economy afloat. This is about much more than 'bailing out those crooks on Wall Street.' Letting the last of your major institutions go belly-up will cause a crash that will make what we've seen already look like child's play.

Except, if we keep bailing these assholes out, then they have NO INCENTIVE to do things the legal way, the right way, the moral and ethical way.

This situation did not develop overnight -- or in three days. How do you think a bunch of self serving asshats are going to cobble together a bill in a day or so that 'fixes' this mother of all clusterfucks and doesn't screw the smallest -- those with the least to lose -- and doesn't reward the villains?
Answer: You can't. My sis, a financial sector worker saw this coming months ago, told me to watch WaMu, because the wheels would be coming off. Do you honestly think that a bailout bill, granting the people and institutions [responsible for this mess] all sorts of protections from THEIR OWN VAGARIES, and not those they have tricked, was written up AFTER THE CRASH? No. They've had it ready to go for awhile.

I saw it coming, my sis saw it coming -- really, you don't need a fucking crystal ball to see this was on the way.

No way should those who dealt it should say how the rest of us should smell it. If they're so goddammed concerned about where this country will go after they've fucked it up they should:
1) have not fucked with it in the first place
2) step aside and let the rest of US handle it-it's our fucking money after all
3) STFU.
4) be stripped of their wealth.

I don't think that the gov should stand on the corner and had every working class American a sack of cash, but I sure as hell don't think the suits should walk away with OUR MONEY, and tell us how they're smarter than we are, and we don't need to know what they're doing with it. While kicking defaulters out of their digs. ANd grabbing up big bonuses for themselves.

This fake money game has to stop. Betting on the outcome of market activities should be disallowed. People involved in puts and derivatives and any other activity, not directly involved in getting money from a lender to a borrower, should be totally cut out of the equation, just for starters.