VP Debate: Biden on McCain: "Maverick, he is not"
By SilentPatriot Thursday Oct 02, 2008 7:30am
In one of his strongest responses of the night, Joe Biden lists all the issues where McCain has proven himself to be the complete opposite of a "maverick."
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
Transcript via CNN:
Look, the maverick -- let's talk about the maverick John McCain is. And, again, I love him. He's been a maverick on some issues, but he has been no maverick on the things that matter to people's lives.
He voted four out of five times for George Bush's budget, which put us a half a trillion dollars in debt this year and over $3 trillion in debt since he's got there.
He has not been a maverick in providing health care for people. He has voted against -- he voted including another 3.6 million children in coverage of the existing health care plan, when he voted in the United States Senate.
He's not been a maverick when it comes to education. He has not supported tax cuts and significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college.
He's not been a maverick on the war. He's not been a maverick on virtually anything that genuinely affects the things that people really talk about around their kitchen table.
Can we send -- can we get Mom's MRI? Can we send Mary back to school next semester? We can't -- we can't make it. How are we going to heat the -- heat the house this winter?
He voted against even providing for what they call LIHEAP, for assistance to people, with oil prices going through the roof in the winter.
So maverick he is not on the important, critical issues that affect people at that kitchen table.
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Palin Gaffe Reminiscent of Gerald Ford Circa 1976
The Palindrone attacks but Joe prevails! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HQJpza5lLA
I'm a Maverick
He's a Maverick
We are Mavericks all
Whenever we get together
We do the Maverick call
Woo,woo,woo,woo
Nyuck,nyuck,nyuck,nyuck
Once we get past the low expectations that were set for Palin, it's clear that she was out of her league. Biden showed a firm command of the situation and played her just right. As frightened as I was of the thought of a Palin VP before the debate, I am even moreso now. The woman is delusional and dangerous.
If maveRICK is the male form, then what is the female form of maverick? Mave______ Fill in the blank.
Well, at least she didn't fall on her face or set the stage on fire. Other than that, she was toally forgetable.
Oh Maverick!
I wanted to throw something at my tv this morning with all the spin about how well she did. Did anyone actually WATCH this debate. Every answer had not substance, and found its way back to general talking points.
On Israel/Palestine, all she could say was that US was a friend of Israel.
On Iraq, all she could say was that ending the was was surrendering and that the surge worked.
On the economy, all she could say was that there was corruption on Wall Street.
The most infuriating part was when she clearly could not respond to the question, she resorted to "I guess it's clear I'm a Washington outsider sinceI don't understand how you can vote for something and then be against it." I really wish Joe would have brought up that Alaskan bridge.
She had no real substansive answers. We've already had one folksy, Joe six-pack, "outsider" try to run this country, we don't need another.
Biden did great. Every response had substansive detail, and he was able to respond to practically every charge Palin made without resorting to just talking points.
I think Biden did a superb job last night. He kept us Obama supporters on the side of the angels, and doubtlessly pulled a a lot of fence sitters down to Obama's side, as well. Palin, however, did pretty well, herself. She emphasized her regional accent, making it so folksy you just wanted to hug her. Her smile was very sweet and charming. Her poise was spot on, as well. She lost the debate, hands down, but I think she pulled back into McCain's camp those Republicans who were put off by the Katie Couric interviews, and maybe won over some others who weren't avid McCain supporters and may have been planning to stay away on election day.
Obama will still win decisively, but Palin may have reduced what was shaping up to be an overwhelming landslide of historic and humiliating proportions -- to an Alf Landon, Barry Goldwater landslide.
stymie @ 5:
Maverussy? ;-)
Biden absolutely rocked last night. Just wish he had stated the correct debt increase under Bush - $6.5 trillion, not $3 trillion, and wish he'd dumped on McCain's not-so-mavericky votes for not supporting the troops - voting against every piece of legislation that would have increased troop benefits and healthcare. And McCain's non-maverick moves against his party's love of deregulation, because McCain never did!
I was so glad that he took on the "maverick" image. Had Palin excluded that word from her recitation, the whole debate would have been over within an hour.
PEACE
Its clear that the McCain campaign didn't get what they'd hoped to get from this debate when they chose Palin so just on that however you score the debate, the Obama/Biden campaign won the night. ANYTHING that happened to Palin, good or bad would have benefited the McCain campaign by giving them red meat to toss to their base. A tame boring back and forth robs the McCain campaign of that red meat.
As long as Biden kept the focus on McCain he won.
stymie @ 5:
Maverina?
Maverette?
Maverelle?
Maveressa?
Maverincess?
Mavagina?
Oh, I could go on all day!
PEACE
I thought the best part is when Palin at the beginning made her pitch against Bush and Washington culture and the people's desire for change, it sounded like she was stumping for Obama.
The Democrats talk a good talk.
Many are Republicrats - some are not.
Nader/Gonzalez
Biden may have won but it looks like Tina Fey may get the weekend off.
http://www.wilytrax.com
Palin sure sparkled. But when you get past the bright lights and big smiles and you-know-what-I'm-sayin' winks, very little of what she said actually had any substance. She didn't answer most of Ifill's questions.
The three things that hit me the most about Gov. Palin were: (1) when Senator Biden choked up over his family as he fired back on being able to understand what it's like to raise kids as a single parent and to wonder if your child is going to live through the night, Gov. Palin didn't acknowledge his pain at all--she just charged on ahead and pressed the "maverick" button; (2) she believes that the role of vice president should have even more power than Cheney has wrangled, bluntly defying the Constitution; and (3) after the debate ended, once Gov. Palin was done holding her infant son, she gave him to her youngest daughter, a little girl...who held the baby while walking down the stairs of the stage. Me, I held my breath until her feet were firmly on the floor. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that giving a little girl an infant to hold as she walks down the stairs is a very good idea. To me, that just reinforces some fundamental differences between me and Gov. Palin--who clearly believes that a 17-year-old girl should be preparing for motherhood instead of preparing for college.
Biden clearly answered Ifill's questions, and was able to also address the numerous attacks that Palin flung his way. He also made his and Obama's cases against a McCain Presidency with informed statements, and at times, eloquence. Biden showed me that he **understood** the things he was saying, that there was far more to him than just soundbites or toeing the party line. Biden proved to me that he had what it takes to lead.
I want a vice president who puts substance over style. For me, the pick is clear.
votingvet @ 10:
Sounds a tad too Russian,
Like palin's answers.
I am so happy Biden slapped that "maverick" bullshit down once and for all. Palin looked stupid(again) repeating those tired, redundant asinine GOP talking points. Biden did all Obama could ever ask of him yesterday. Palin only seemed OK because she's been so fucking awful in comparison.
For the last 4 weeks, the Republican Rightwing is going to pull out all the stops: push polling, religious smears, the race card, legions of goons in print and on tv spewing lies and distortions (He supports child molesters who make less than $42, 000!!). They will stop at nothing to win and the Dems cannot let its guard down.
If palin represents the working American, or the derisive "Joe Six-pack" is she implying we're all rubes?
votingvet @ 10:
Maverick:
1: an unbranded range animal ; especially : a motherless calf
I believe that the most equivalent human term would be:
BASTARD
1: an illegitimate child
2: something that is spurious, irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
3 a: an offensive or disagreeable person
Left&Left @ 19:
You've boinked sarah?
I haven't really see anyone else address this but it really put me off that she kept smiling out of context during her memorized speeches. There are no points for poise!! I positive she smiled out of habit from her beauty pageant days. And it just struck me as the wrong kind of attitude for such a serious forum.
From Sarah to John,
Oh Maverick,
Well you came and you gave without taking
But I sent you away, oh Maverick
Will you kissed me and stopped me from shaking
And I need you today, oh Maverick
Good for Joe. This is the kind of clarity that Obama should be showing in portraying McCain. This Maverick balloon of McCain needs to be burst once and for all. Obama tried to do that in he debate. The advantage Biden had was that McCain wasn't on stage. I guess if there was going to be a second VP debate, McCain would want to stand next to her (ala the Couric interview).
upchuck @ 22:
I think then keeping in mind the oft pointed out double standard of how tough men are perceived (positively) and how tough women are perceived (negatively) the female form for Maverick would be Bitch. If you think about it, in a business/political sense they describe the same behavior, but society's sexism makes one sound heroic and the other a problem.
A Maverick is a loose cow without a brand, a homeless amimal, a person without a base, a street urchin that survives by hook or crook. It is a daring person with nothing to lose. One that takes risks, unconventional, a loner, an outsider.
Who wants to be led by a maverick? Not me. And those who call themselves Mavericks are not to bright since Mavericks have NO desirable traits.
palin's scariest statement?
combined with palin's remark about "building our embassy, also, in Jerusalem," we would all do well to remember that if successful, this woman would be in a position to decide the date of the apocalypse which she believes will come in her life time.
ysbaddaden @ 21:
I think he was the mascot for Anheuser Bush.
3 Radically Moderate
I'm a maverick...you're a maverick...wouldn't you like to be a maverick too?
I'm sure sarah knows mavericks, Biblically.
She didn't blow up. A tie...she wins and that is how it will be spun.
The issue is still the same. Does the country now want substance over style, or does it still treat it as an extensive of American Idol, 24 and My BFF...all rolled into one.
The initial polls, in my opinion, showed that people were actually listening...and were looking for answers, not soundbites. That's why most polls showed Biden winning.
What did come through in this debate, again...in my opinion, is a very clear and distinct choice for the country. Either a continuation of the same policies and philosophies (deregulation, tax cuts for the wealthy and BIG business) or a return to policy making that focuses on protecting the taxpayer, providing support and relief for working families, improvements in education and healthcare and real job growth.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader on the 'Bailout' Bill) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 15:
Where will the Green Party be when Nader decides that he is too old and irrelevant to make any progress for the Green Party?
Where is that next generation of Greens to take up the cause?
Nader is so yesterday.
Liberal AND Proud @ 32:
You did so good Sarah; you didn't start crying.
And yet the nation won't know about it. A local paper this morning said "PALIN PASSES!" on the front. "Joe who?" says a bleary-eyed nation.
Radically Moderate @ 33:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdCjaiXmUb0
Courtesy of Fact Check.Org
Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.
* Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
* Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.
* Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.
* Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.
* Biden wrongly claimed that McCain had said "he wouldn't even sit down" with the president of Spain. Actually, McCain didn't reject a meeting, but simply refused to commit himself one way or the other during an interview.
* Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.
just the facts ma'am.
Liberal AND Proud @ 32:
She didn’t blow up.
______________________________________________
I'm sure there are plans to make her a blow-up doll.
Palin did not make a complete fool of herself. That would be a success for me during a VP debate but shouldn't there be higher expectations from her? Personally, I think the only thing that saved her was her ability to memorize the RNC script.
Palin was everything I expected..from a St Pauli girl who made the deans list at the local JUCO.
This was Biden's best dig of the night. I was so glad he said that. Everytime Sarah said the word 'maverick' I wanted to vomit.
I believe the plural is 'maveroni'.
ysbaddaden @ 36:
A sad lament indeed.
Karen in CT @ 41:
That would make her a San Francisco treat.
I was watching CNN this morning and some guy from ST Louis was on. A talk radio mouth.
He said that since Palin put together sentences without screwing up she was the winner. I kid you not.
This country is soooo screwed. If that is what passes for winning in political discourse.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader on the 'Bailout' Bill) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 15:
And Naderites talk what? Wasted air or ink.
All that smiling she did was sort of eerie and off-putting. She's so awful at reading the tone of her interactions, she gives me the creeps. Does nothing reach her?
Radically Moderate @ 33:
You need to straighten out your facts. Cynthia McKinney is the Green candidate for President, Rosa Clemente is the VP candidate.
Ms Clemente should have been in the debate last night but was excluded by the Republicrats, as was Matt Gonzalez.
Nader/Gonzalez are independent.
I am not an advocate for the Greens but I am sympathetic. Here they are.
chicano2nd @ 45:
Spoken like a true rude dupe of the Republicrats.
The Republicrats will seem to be on your side until the Congressional votes are counted.
So she can't answer the simplest scripted questions but doesn't trip up once in 90 minutes of unscripted questions and debate.
Someone posted a comment here yesterday "if she's wearing her hair down she's wearing a wire"
Set low expectations, ensure they are surppassed. Done, Done and Done.
VP Debate: Biden on McCain: “Maverick, he is not”
More like a gelding.
I was actually stunned when she talked about Maverick John going to Warshington to solve the financial crisis and what a great job he did, you know, putting Country First and all!
Pure delusion.
Did anybody catch her "shout out"? Who the eff does that at a V.P debate? This isn't TRL on MTV (my daughter gave me that gem)!
chicano2nd @ 45:
Rather Seussian dont'cha think?
Spoke like a truly dink.
Would a Green Party President Nadir
Require us to switch over to Soylent Green?
Palin is an idiot.
She's annoying and I would rather listen to a speeding
locomotive come to a screeching halt than listen to that voice of hers.
Her folksyness is not charming its annoying.
She's GWB with tits in designer glasses.
Our media sucks ass!
The debate hasn't been the story.
How well Palin did in light of the low expectations of her
has been the story.
Why can't we have a media tha tells it like it is.
SHE'S AN UNQUALIFIED DUMBASS!
But then I guess substance dosn't matter
when ohhh soooo cute and bubbly and cheerful donchaknow.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader on the 'Bailout' Bill) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 47:
Well yes, of course, but are they mavericks.........hmmm?.........and while we're on the subject, why do Repugs consider Ginger the hottie, and Dems think Mary Ann is the hottie?
Radically Moderate @ 55:
And why do Naderites think Mrs. Howell is a babe?
Palin's folksy speaking ways is not vice-presidential or presidential if the need be.
"Folksy" is fine for the neighbors or at the saloon, but I want my leaders to speak less like a country bumpkin on a barstool and more like an educated person with knowledge of at least a few current events and Palin doesn't seem to know what's going on in America any better than Mr. Magoo.
ysbaddaden @ 54:
Maybe you should ask the Green Party Candidate Cynthia McKinney.
It pains me to see someone so ignorant of 3rd Parties.
As expected, I slept through the entire thing. From what I'm gathering, Sarah was running for prom queen and Joe was running for vice president. Yes, she didn't make a total fool of herself so in some circles that translates into "she hit it out of the ballpark".
This is kinda picky, but it bugs me. Why do she and her husband wear Israeli flag pins and why did she wear her's over her gigantic American flag pin? I guess it sends a message of some sort but I've never seen any candidate or elected official wear the flag of another country. Maybe it's happened, but I've never seen it.
stymie @ 5:
How about Maverix? You know, like aviatrix, fellatrix, etc.
Palin scores points with voters!
(Requires sound.)
Happy Anniversary to Michelle and Barack Obama!
Biden: Major league, seasoned player
Palin: Peewee, skips practice and hangs around Wasilla tattoo parlors
Last night, she even admitted that she wasn't going to answer the questions and continued to recite her scripted speech.
At least she didn't shit on herself. Win! ?
To those that think it was a tie or victory for Palin simply because she didn't do poorly: The McCain campaign was hoping for and in fact desperately needed Biden to attack or in someway belittle Palin. Though who won the debate, Biden or Palin I suppose is debatable, bottom line, for Biden to have kept the focus on McCain and not attacking Palin and to have a generally uneventful event definitely equates a victory for the Obama campaign and disappointment for the McCain campaign.
Strange debate tactic, announce that you will not answer the moderator's questions and instead pick your own topic and subject. Talk about a moving target.
Wait a minute...of course McCain is a maverick! Sarah said so, and she winked at me! So it must be true!
Filthy Harry @ 64:
Remember the 2000 debate between Al Gore and bush; they claimed that Bush won the debate. They said that Gore came across as TOO SMART.
upchuck @ 67:
Exactly. By attacking and keeping the focus on McCain and not getting into an actual debate with Palin herself, Biden deprived the McCain campaign of red meat to throw to their base. Which McCain desperately needs.
Finally calling mccain on his "mavericky", perfect.
Her "Joe six pack" schtick was a bit too folksie for my tastes. She was a combination of just adequate yet vapid. She didn't really make any specific points of note; just oozed a lot of spunk and colloquialisms.
If I had never seen her before today, I would have wondered what kind of joke it was having this women on teevee. However, I too saw the circus beforehand.
do us all a favor and fuck off. seriously. get away from the cult of personality and all obama is left with is an empty suit. i cannot believe that the party of john f kennedy who fought castro is leading us down the road to communism. excuse me while i go puke. at least hillary was honest. jesus christ *oops! sorry!* again: do us all a favor and fuck off!
wow. i can't even get posted on your site. how liberal are your views, fuckwads? you suck. hopefully, the truth about nobama will be revealed and someone will have the decency to hide you in the little padded cell they have made especially for you, you looney idiot. "the folded paper holds their faces to the floor"...
pissed off patricia @ 65:
Not honoring the rules set forth and arrogantly ignoring the moderator's questions....mavericky.
Sarah Palin is Tina Fey, without the brain.
Good news:
In his ruling yesterday, issued minutes before the start of the vice-presidential debate, Alaska state court Judge Peter Michalski said the Alaska Legislative Council can move ahead with its investigation, including having the state Senate Judiciary Committee subpoena Palin aides to testify.
"It is legitimately within the scope of the Legislature's investigatory power to inquire into the circumstances surrounding the termination of a public officer," Michalski wrote in his ruling.
They are debating the bailout for 90 minutes, no amendments, on C Span.
The problem I had with her folksiness is that it was too much, it was all the time. Which gives rise to the question: Does she know how to behave with dignity and respect on a world stage? My Mom made it clear to me when I was a kid "You say 'Ya' to your friends, say 'Yes' to me and other adults.
Granted I know her base probably likes it but I hope the undecideds were put off by it as much as I was.
Edwin Hussein @ 70:
I'm kinda wondering if her husband isn't an alcoholic. It just seems kinda odd that she thinks most men drink a six pack every night.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader on the 'Bailout' Bill) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 48:
The Democratic Party is marginally better than the Republican Party.
The Democratic Party is more likely to win than a third party candidate at this time.
Better to play the long-term strategy of protecting the SCOTUS with the Democrats at this time.
I would rather vote for the Socialists, but that would be an irresponsible vote in a dangerous time IMHO.
A bitter pill is this reality.
Obama Hits Palin's Debate Performance In Ad
McCain Camp Admits Palin Got Homeowner Protections Position Wrong
pissed off patricia @ 65:
I was at a junior high football game during the debate and my wife told me she said that. I accused my wife that she was joking with me. It seems to me that it was one of those lines written in the margin of her notes, but not one of those that she was supposed to read outloud.
"Maverick" is rather gender neutral. For the sake of the of the conversation I went to check out to see if Dallas Maverick cheerleaders had their own name, but alas they don't. The Dallas Mavericks are pretty good, but the stick it up in the playoffs where it really matters... kinda like John McCain he was a Maverick when he needed to be, but not when it really required him to be one.
Sorry, I want a vice president who doesn't sound like one of the cows from the Real California Cheese commercials. Y'know. You betcha.
And I simply cannot believe that there are voters and pundits who think reciting talking points for ninety minutes negates the inability to form a coherent thought in the face of softball questions and not-so-subtle guiding from the reporter.
I don't expect the candidates to be the next Ken Jennings, but being able to address problems without crib sheets is essential. Because real-world crisis aren't going to wait until your handlers put talking points in front of you. And shrewd opponents like Vladimir Putin are going to look in those big doe eyes and realize nobody's home.
Everytime McCain calls himself a "maverick", lets recall that the "Original Maverick" - played by James Garner - was an amiable con-man and gambler.
Wake up, folks.
Palin went down really well with a lot of "just plain folks" (see ersatz poll on Drudge) who will probably vote.
One BBC correspondent watched the debate with a couple of "hockey moms" from St. Louis and their comments provide important fundamental insight that should send cold shivers down your spine.
Basically, Palin succeeded in controlling the repeatable sound bites (i.e. her dismissal of Obama/Biden's plan to extricate the US from Iraq as "showing the white flag of surrender" has gotten a lot more airtime here in Tokyo than anything else said). Biden (and Obama, for that matter), on the other hand, used too many big words (and bigger concepts) for the country's "least common denominator" electorate to understand -- their eyes glaze over waiting for a quickie turn of phrase they can get their little minds around. Palin SPEAKS to these people, and "smarty-pants" lefties here and at sites like Huff-Po and DKos just don't get it. We dismiss her at our peril. Her spiel may be carefully crafted reinforcement of hackneyed, eye-rolling (to us) stereotypes, but it WORKS! These people feel COMFORTABLE with those stereotypes, even if most are pre-fabricated from whole cloth by the Republican propaganda machine. Lies? Distortions? Criminal behavior? Who cares? A large cross-section of the electorate (going back to St. Ronnie) clearly can't be bothered with silly things like facts and follow-up questions. These are the dunces that not only elected Incurious George once, but TWICE!
With only a month to go, THIS is still going to be a big problem for the Obama/Biden ticket, as it always has been for Democrats.
Never forget Adlai Stevenson's 1956 response to the woman who told him:
"Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!"
Stevenson called back, "That's not enough, madam, we need a majority!"
The more things change . . .
A.
Edwin Hussein @ 70:
"Oozed" is right. She didn't even strike me as folksy -- more as phony folksy. Fred Thompson is folksier than Palin.
Winking and nose-scrunching as debating techniques are not so far off from Ann Coulter's eye-rolling as a substitute for intelligent commentary.
When he laid this out, I stood up and cheered. I would have paid good money to see her face when he did.
snoozer @ 81:
"Oozed" is right. She didn't even strike me as folksy -- more as phony folksy. Fred Thompson is folksier than Palin.
Winking and nose-scrunching as debating techniques are not so far off from Ann Coulter's eye-rolling as a substitute for intelligent commentary.
Did you catch her eye rolling and head shaking when Sen Biden was speaking or contradicting her blatantly untrue, or half true comments?
upchuck @ 58:
Oh that's right, he was Green in 2000.
He has no party.
Like that would be an effective way of governing.
MAVE-A-NICE-DAY...
"John is a Maverick, I am a Maverick, we are Mavericks! ! !"
MAVERICK---> a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates.
"WE ARE MAVERICKS" HAS THE INTELLECTUAL PUNCH OF THE MOVIE AIRHEADS (coincidence? i think not!)
Ian: Well, there's three of you. You're not exactly lone. Shouldn't you be the Three Rangers?
Edwin Hussein @ 70:
sarah repeated use of Joe's patronym and repeated refering to Joe Sixpack was just her fascination with her opponent's abs.
ysbaddaden @ 38:
I'm willing to bet good money that someone WILL make and sell some Sarah Palin blow up dolls. The open mouth 'Deer in the headlights look' will turn on many a MILF loving 'maverick' out there.
Speaking of MILFS, did you know the GOP had a website up called 'voteforthemilf.com'?
What's next? Will they be promising massages from Palin, complete with 'happy endings' for everyone that votes for her?
Seriously, the morons that are praising her are only a few steps away from stuffing dollars in her g-string, while she dances around a pole.
Nowonmai @ 83:
Did you catch her eye rolling and head shaking when Sen Biden was speaking or contradicting her blatantly untrue, or half true comments?
No, I was mostly listening and occasionally glancing over. Not surprised.
Numinous @ 87:
My spousal unit made me leave the room because I kept hollering at the moniter," SHE"S LYING! IS SHE ACTUALLY WINKING??! MAVERICK MY ARSE!"
I went to the bedroom and read a book.
ysbaddaden @ 89:
Numinous @ 87:
Funny thing about the term G-String, besides it's not being very G rated, which sounds like gyrate...
Wait, I'm getting lost here...
The funny thing is in at least one Tarzan book published around the twenties, Edgar Rice Burrough's referred to Tarzan's G-string.
And soon after making the Buddy Holly story, to help promote it, Gary Busey met Buddy's widow. He looked so much like Buddy, it threw her, and he got a chance to sing one of his song's while playing Buddy's guitar. She told him his G-string was flat.
But was she talking about the guitar?
ysbaddaden @ 21:
and male?
Hey, KevMC_Hussein, she was winking at me! Not you, me.
These debates could be so much harder hitting. The questions just get lofted out there and the candidates can completely dodge them if they so choose. Biden didn't, but some of Palin's answers were just drivel, and she doesn't get called on it. Ridiculous.
Mick Piobr @ 90:
I watched it on my lap top with head phones on and only bits and pieces of it at that because it is too difficult to listen to that nattering, ignorant hag and suppress the desire to put my fist through the monitor.
MAVERICK—> a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates.
And McSame voted 95% with bush.......what a terrable slogan. This is why dummy girl doesn't want Biden to 'look back'. Who was the 'Keating 5' anyway?....opps....
Joe Biden was great. Of the two candidates women like him more at least the ones I've been talking to.
As for the most noticed moment, that is when he talked about his wife and daughter and started to lose it. Number one....Irish don't lose it. They suck it up. Number 2...I think he has gotten so pissed off listening to the "we represent the people sitting around the table" garbage for the past 10 years coming from the religious right and the value people he lashed out. It's bullshit and at that particular moment he said enough is enough. Good job Joe.
Nick @ 94:
I agree. But I think it's a mistake to dismiss Palin's performance, even if it was vacuous.
The fact is, the VP debate wasn't the train wreck (or NASCAR pile up) most people were predicting. And while Biden was great, the story of the debate has become, "Palin didn't screw up".
Sure, she might have dodged every question put to her and reverted to talking points, but like it or not that was smart strategy, given her apparent mental faculties....
Interesting clip here shows a media coach talking about the debate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4vDcnAahAk
He describes Palin's "bridging" - seamlessly jumping from the question to the rehearsed talking points.
We've all seen it and it's frustrating but works for most viewers!
There must have been some heavy coaching this week!
Anyway - it allowed Palin to survive and shine (depending on who you ask) as the folksy, fundie, hockey/soccer/whatever mom that the right love to love.
95 Nada
After about 45 minutes sarah's voice was giving me a headache, and I can't stay up until 10:00 pm, since I have to get up at 4:45 every day. So I switched over and watched an episode from the first season (the best) of George Reeves The Adventures of Superman, and have been catching highlights on the boob tube, newspapers and online since.
I don't think even Tina Fey can portray the absurd chatter of this wacko....we should be ashamed.....
joe schmoe @ 8:
I watched the "debate", if that is what you want to call it. It really was more of a pageant, than a debate.
She had no real answers. She talked in circles. She attempted to use manipulation and emotion, rather than facts and reasoning. There was one point, it may actually have been the first question, where Joe Biden began his remarks with "I didn't hear an answer to that question" and later Gwen Ifill asked Palin, "Would you like to answer the question", after she rambled on and on about something else entirely. To start a debate out with "soccer moms" is really telling. As a former soccer mom (my children are grown now), I find that demeaning and condesending. I was hoping (not expecting but hoping) to see an intelligent debate and to find out where McCain differed from Bush. One month before the elections, this remains a mystery.
Palin didn't do well. Had this been the first real contact with the American people since the RNC, I think everyone would be able to see that there was no substance, just a lot of smack talk, right-wing rhetoric and one liners. They would overwhelmingly agree that there was not any evidence that Palin was ready for the Vice-Presidency. A lot of what Palin did try to inject into the debate was factually incorrect and meant to cloud the real issues affecting our country. Because of the Gibson and Couric interviews, expectations were so low that all she had to do was show up and not stutter and stammer for a response. The American people will suffer because of this.
You could see the point where Joe just felt enough was enough. He was waiting for an actual debate. He decided to somewhat ignore Palin and get his own points across, which he did rather well. He was told not to body slam her, but you could tell by that smile that he knew he could wipe the floor with her if he wanted to.
Polling by far proved Joe the winner. For example, when questioned on how well the candidates knew the issues, Palin improved from 40% to 60% among those polled pre and post debate, while Biden improved from 70% to 98%. A stunning statistic.
I'll admit, I muted Palin for the last 20 minutes. I wanted to hear substance and she just wasn't providing any. She became annoying, like a mosquito buzzing in your ear, while you're trying to sleep. I don't mean that in an insulting way. I was just so disappointed by her superficial performance and so insulted by the winking and flirtatious facial gestures that I felt it better to tune her out and listen to some actual policy present by Biden. She proved herself to be someone not meant to be taken seriously, a true liability for women everywhere.
Radically Moderate @ 56:
Who is Mrs. Howell?
How can I have an opinion about her, who is she?
How can you have an opinion about people you do not know and why do you speak in generalities ABOUT those people you do not know?
dragonjax @ 17:
Chris Matthews pointed out that it was 11:00 p.m. on the east coast when that baby was dragged up on stag for the photo-op. I'll let all of you decide whether that is an appropriate time for an infant to still be awake.
Palin holds that child like she's never bonded with him, like he is someone else's child and she's hoping they'll take him from her before he spits up on her. I too, being the overprotective parent that I am, held my breath when that little girl carried that infant. Is that the recklessness that makes Palin a Maverick?
upchuck @ 22:
No it would be that at all. The word maverick was coined after Samual Maverick, a Texan who refused to brand his cattle. It pertains to those who do not abide by conventional rules. It has nothing to do with illegitmate children. Let's not go there. We're better than that.
What Biden Should Have Said:
If at last night's debate Gwen Ifill had asked Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden whether he thinks Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and he said: "Gwen, let me speak for the vast majority of people in this country when I say, frankly and honestly, 'What the fuck?' No, really, What. The. Fuck. I mean, everyone's seen this goddamned idiot over here running around and playing national candidate dress-up. And isn't it embarrassing? Isn't it just so depressingly, godforsakenly embarrassing? C'mon, Republicans, you gotta hate yourselves for having to constantly defend her when she says something utterly incomprehensible or just plain friggin' dumb. You gotta hate yourselves for how far you've devolved.
"Really, what the fuck? And don't gimme that fuckin' little sour-faced sneer, Sarah, where you look like you just sucked a sweaty hobo's cock. 'Cause you know it's true and every time you get asked a question that stumps you, which is every fuckin' question, and you get that look in your eyes like the deer laying on the road way after the headlights have gone by, you gotta wonder, 'What the fuck?' yourself. You're in over your head, and there ain't no life preserver here.
"Last week, we all had to watch while John McCain treated Barack Obama like he had just fucked McCain's daughter's lily-white snatch with his big black dick. Barack Obama fought for months to win the votes of his party to win the nomination. What the fuck did you do, Sarah? You ran a town that's the size of a Super Wal-Mart? You're a governor? Of fuckin' Alaska? Jesus fuckin' Christ, that means your only job is to see how much you can get away with fucking up the environment to squeeze a little more filthy oil lucre out of the wheezing earth so you can please the corporations that fuckin' own your state and to see how much you can afford to bribe the citizens there with Exxon's profits. And you're on stage with me? At best, you should be the second focus group-ready questioner in a townhall meeting, you know, the crazy Christian chick from a rural state no one gives a fuck about but we all have to pretend matters because of the electoral college.
"And you wanna make fun of me? Saying you were in 2nd grade when I was first in the Senate? Fuck you. You know what I was doing then while your daddy was showing you how to rip the intestines out of a moose or some such shit? I was trying to stop the Nixon administration from blowing the fuck out Cambodia. And when you were sashaying your ass around a stage in a swimsuit and heels, wondering if you could just handjob the judges backstage, I was facing down Ronald Reagan for his insane policies, including in Lebanon. But that'd be history and that requires you to think about more than whatever talking points John McCain has been jamming up your twat and down your throat for the last couple of months, which is the only time you've given a shit about more than how to use your office to get jobs for friends, take revenge on ex-in-laws, and get pretty, shiny presents.
"I don't wanna fuckin' hear about this dink anymore. I don't wanna know about how she went to five different safety schools before squeezing out a vanity degree like a turd from a constipated old man. I don't wanna hear about her retarded baby. I don't wanna hear about her knocked-up teenage daughter. I don't wanna hear about her fuckin' redneck husband. Fuck them. They are the ones who need to be led, not the ones who need to be leading. So I don't give a fuck about what Bush with boobs here has to say about jack shit. And you know what else? I don't wanna hear about the wisdom of small town America. You know where the Founders spent their time? In the cities. In Paris. In London. Small towns? That's called 'isolation.' And it's bullshit political talk for 'white,' Gwen. Oh, do I sound elitist? If it's elitist to want to elect people who actually have a thought in their head about more than whether or not to name the next child 'Remington' or 'Colt,' then, fine, fuck me, it's elitist.
"This ain't a fuckin' game, Gwen. It ain't a fuckin' beauty pageant where you can give a cross-eyed hummer to a flute and charm your way to second place. We already played let's-put-the-idiot-in-charge. How'd that work out, huh? So it ain't funny that we are actually having a serious discussion about someone who is caught off guard when asked for a newspaper she reads. It's not funny. Not when the top of her ticket is Old Geezer Grumpy McStrokeEye. So, no, Gwen, even if the economy was so good that everyone was knee deep in cash and pussy or cock, even if Osama bin Laden told all his people to go back to goat fucking and then killed himself, even if all of a sudden we discovered we could all power our cars cleanly with pig shit, even if the streets were paved with gold, Gwen, this fuckin' idiot, who couldn't discuss a foreign policy even though her soldier son's life depends on it and who couldn't even name the Exxon Valdez case, fer chrissake, oughta be arrested if she sets foot in Washington, DC," then the whole thing would have been well worth it.
Please take the poll at my local paper. It's close right now.
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/255/story/584210.html
Filthy Harry @ 24:
I think she must have been told to mirror or ape Biden. It didn't work. It came off as contrived. The smiling didn't bother me as much as the winking and the coquettish facial gestures.
karen marie @ 29:
Agreed. The very telling language for her base was "I'm glad we agree that we both love Israel". Not we both support Israel; we both love Israel. This is End Times/Rapture speak, just like the Dred Scott language Bush used in one of his debates with Kerry.
Liberal AND Proud @ 32:
I thought so too, but I watched some of the pundits after the debate and they did not declare her the winner. They said that this is her format because "there are no follow up questions" like there were with Gibson and Couric.
moondancer @ 40:
Someone at MSNBC, Robinson I think, wrote that "the debates were to be held at Washington University, a much more pretigious school than any of the six Palin attended".
Can O' Whoopass @ 57:
Just consider that the "folksy" stuff may backfire. It may just remind people of the "folksy" failure presently in office and equate his policies with McCain, which is exactly what McCain-Palin have been trying to get away from.
Me, I don't understand this folksy stuff at all. I don't understand why Americans don't want a dignified, intelligent and capable leader. What is this facination with putting Joe Sixpack in control. Is it the blur between the fiction of movies and reality? I consider myself to be leagues more intelligent that Palin, but I wouldn't have the arrogance to consider myself VP material. In my lcareer, it has been my experience that the most arrogant and confident of people are normally the most incompetent and they normally have a higher opinion of themselves than is actually warranted. I'm not certain why the correlation exists, but it certainly does. I guess that is where the whole "legend in one's own mind" comes from.
I just want everyone to know, I was using "JoeSixPack" long before Caribou Barbie was.
Edwin Hussein @ 70:
This isn't meant to be a joke at all, (unfortunately), but while I was watching the debate, I felt I'd seen this before, in a movie or something. Then, it occurred to me where it was. It was from a scene in White Men Can't Jump, where Rosie Perez finally makes in on to Jeopardy, (her life long dream), and she is introduced as "former disco queen . . . ". Think about it. Do you agree?
Filthy Harry @ 74:
No, she does not. I cringed immediately when she came out screaming (fully mic'd) "Can I call ya Joe?" not, Please call me Sarsh and may I call you Joe? Would you mind if I called you Joe?
Can I? Ahhhh!
Everytime she said new-Q-lur. I corrected her aloud.
She doesn't even walk with poise. It is the female version of the Bush swagger. We don't need another folksy swaggering maverick in the White House.
Shadowgm Hussein @ 78:
You need to share this exact sentiment with every MSM news source. Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Clap. Well said!
I'd say Biden was too easy on him. McCain has never been a maverick except in his own mind. He used to talk like a maverick but he's always voted like rank and file Republican.
Possibly after Obama wins the election he could hire Palin as his press secretary.
Li'l Adam @ 80:
The analysis I've read is that she may have stopped the bleeding on the McCain campaign, but she didn't convince any independents. She didn't hit is out of the park for McCain, which was needed right now. She is still considered a liability to the ticket by fiscal conservatives (and other intelligent folk). She proved she is capable in the element she is comforatable with, but when pressed to explain or provide details, she just cannot do it. She can only memorized and regurgitate talking points. This doesn't go unnoticed.
Perhaps I'm late to the party, but I need two things clarified for me:
Is John McCain a Maverick? There's been some talk about that, including in last night's debate.
Is it true that John McCain was a POW? I've been hearing rumors to that effect, but I wasn't really sure.
As for Her Palin Nibs, Senator Biden absolutely eviscerated her last night. What's even scarier is that she's too dim-witted to have even recognized it. And to think that if McCain were to kick off in office, she wouldn't assume command of the ship?
This is some scary shit. If O-B are not elected, I might consider leaving the country. How's Death Valley this time of year?
Carlin@103 Thanks. Good rant.
Note: "...would assume command of the ship..."
Joe Citizen @ 104:
Take the poll people. 45% Palin. Are you kidding me!
ShotoJamf @ 117:
Hot. Still in this country.
That was one of the best moments in the debate. I just loved how Biden shoved that tired old myth about the Maverick back down her throat. "team of mavericks" my ass
He wish he had done the same when Palin stuttered about "McCain knows how to win wars" and say something like "Excuse me governor. I've heard this "know how to win wars" many times from senator McCain and now from you. What wars have McCain won that makes him such an expert on winning wars? I'll tell you the answer right away. McCain has won just as many wars as senator Obama has. Zero."
correction #122
"I wish " not "He wish"
Mick Piobr @ 118:
Agreed. Good job.
galmud @ 122:
Really, McCain knows how to win wars. Why isn't he sharing this information with his fellow senators, with the president. Why has he allowed over 4,000 Americans to lose their lives with over 30,000 wounded. And how many innocent Iraqis have died while John McCain kept his secret stategy to himself. What wars has John McCain won? Vietnam? No. Where does his expertise lie and why does he consider himself an expert in war? Empty, contrived, talking point nonsense. John McCain will prove himself to be an expert in nothing more than getting us into wars, but never getting us out of them. Maverick, my ass!
And while we're on the subject of the "debate", was anyone else absolutely creeped out by Palin's constant, Moonie-esque grin?
Again: McCain would be 72 in his first year in office. The actuarial stats are leaning unfavorably in his direction. (There's also grim family history on his father's side - Dad and Grandpa). Accordingly, Ms. Moonie Grin might well be positioned to (as they say) Assume The Position. As I said: That's some truly scary shit. How many supreme court appointments are we talking about? Then again, that would only throw the country back to - say - the year 1400, give or take a few minutes.
So if Death Valley is out, how about Daggett? Or Mars? (I hear there's water there...)
I think it is important to point out that PALIN asked to come back to interview with Couric on a second day so she could "DO BETTER". So, it wasn't enough that she failed the first day, she imploded the second. There are no DO OVERS in nuclear (not NU-Q-LAR) war, my dear. There are no DO OVERS when our sons and daughters are needlessly slaughtered in your ego-driven, bombastic, "bring em on", talking points, no diplomacy administration.
Grow up, and go home!
ShotoJamf @ 126:
She's best when she is allowed to be mean and hateful, slinging shit and being manipulative. Remind you of anyone else? Maybe someone they DON'T want to be compared to or aligned with?
One of Joe's strongest moments. I noticed he had strong ones when the format gave him the last chance to speak on an issue and Palin's answer to her next question was too important to her to go back to Biden's answer.
I just have this mental picture of McCain, alone in his bedroom at night, he slowly goes over to his closet, opens a plastic coat bag, and slides out a high-school lettermans type jacket (with the leather sleeves), he puts it on, looks over his shoulder into the mirror and it says on the back, "Mavericks". And then he makes the curled bicep pose....
Sounds like she might fit right in under the current regime. Her Secret Service name could be: Dick "Lipstick Hockey Mom Pitbull" Cheney. Or just "Wack Job" for short.
As wacked out as she and her family appear to be, there just has to be some dirt that can be dug up before the election. Electronic media (television, especially) tend to milk a story like that. There has to be something to counteract whatever Duhbyah is intending to pull out of his ass just days before the election. Don't be surprised if it happens.
It keeps ringing in my head that Duhbyah unleashed some special ops teams into the Pakistan-Afghan border just about a month back. Maybe there's intel on a high-value target and they're intending to make a splash in the press on about 10/31/08, give or take a few days.
I'm not the conspiracy type, but it's plausible...
So Death Valley is out. No comment on Daggett. I'm still thinkin' Mars, what with that whole water thing. And there's already a few cars rolling around on the surface. No problem getting around. I'm all about exploring possibilities.
Early in life, I had a few girlfriends that did that winking, cutesy look and spoke like I was a fool.
Ran like the wind from each of them (good advice from Dad, thanks!) until I found a real woman, who never has had to resort to that kind of crap. Been with her ever since.
134 Just walking the dog
Did you ever see the Marx Brothers movie Horsefeathers? One of my favorite scenes is where the University president (Groucho Marx) is on a boat with a beautiful female spy trying to coax football secrets out of him, and at one point employs a baby voice to cajole him.
Groucho mocks her baby voice, and says approximately, "If wittle girl keeps talking that way, she'll find herself in the lake."
Biden rawks.
CMINCA @ 131:
She asked to come back to do better? Where do you get that stuff? Everyone of those interviews was scripted and rehearsed with Couric. You don't really think those two women take a little stroll and chat, do you? Couric had more people watching her this past week than ever before, she needed to get her ratings up, Palin, on the other hand, needed to get expectations down. She got more viewers because we all wanted to watch her crash and burn again, instead she winked at every Joe Sixpack and talked perfect trailer park. For those 'average' Americans she can fib a blue streak and they will swear it is the 'Honest to God Truth'
She needs to back to Alaska.
Karin Byars @ 138:
I forgot: We need to stop watching anchors like Couric who serve up contrived stuff as news and the networks that bring them to us.
Palin is no maverick! She is loved in Alaska because she doubled the oil dividend check every citizen of the state gets from $1,600.00 annually to $3,269.00. She did this by doubling the money big oil has to pay to Alaska. Alaska has a population of 683,000 people and 900,00 caribou There is no state sales tax, property or income tax in Alaska. What challenge has she ever had to faced as the chief executive of Alaska? Big Oil pays for everything in Alaska so of course drill baby drill is the mantra.Palin is loved in Alaska because she doubled the oil dividend check every citizen of the state gets from $1,600.00 annually to $3,269.00. She did this by doubling the money big oil has to pay to Alaska. Alaska has a population of 683,000 people and 900,00 caribou There is no state sales tax, property or income tax in Alaska. What challenge has she ever had to faced as the chief executive of Alaska? Big Oil pays for everything in Alaska so of course drill baby drill is the mantra.
Dave @ 140:
New rule: Only James Garner is allowed to utter the word "maverick" ever again.
The more I see Palin in this debate the more incoherent she becomes. What the fuck is she talking about. Its like insert any talking point here even if it has nothing to do with the question. She makes zero sense.
i think john mccain has a unique idea of what being a maverick really is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITToVCGgvEk
I smell an ad in this.
The dems would be crazy not to use it.
ysbaddaden @ 43:
No. But maybe a San Francisco trick.
Alice X - (Click Here for Nader on the 'Bailout' Bill) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 104:
I was having fun this morning trying not to be serious.
However Ralph Nader is very much a Green Party member, he chose not to run for the Greens nomination but later chose, as you state, to run as an independent. Still, what do the Greens have to offer any voters outside of their small sphere of influence. What are their issues? Banning croutons on organic salads?
OK I've had it with the "Maverick" crap from McAncient and Chatty Palin the wind-up doll.
The "Maverick" was a crappy car foisted on the American public by Ford. It helped to drive Americans to foreign made cars.
This latest incarnation of "Maverick" is a crappy ex-fighter jock who nearly failed Annapolis got his ass shot down over Hanoi and married a beer heiress. His claim to fame is he supported Bush 95% of the time. And then, he has the gall to put the equivalent of a "Yugo" as his VP pick.
Two clunkers Unsafe At Any Speed.
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