Open Thread
By bluegal Thursday Feb 12, 2009 8:30pm
We is all on the cover of Newsweek! Open thread below....
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©2009 Crooks And Liars
We is all on the cover of Newsweek! Open thread below....
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What drive me nuts about the ongoing debate over the relative merits of conservatism Vs liberals, is why there's any debate on the subject... at all! Because when we look at the sociological sciences for some insight into who is who and which personality traits are hurting the culture and country, we see this from a study that the Oklahoma justice department set up to determine the same thing: "It appears that conservatism has pathological dimensions manifested in violence and distorted psycho-sexual development" (Boshier,1983). This is supported by a study conducted by Walker, Rowe, and Quincey (1993)in which there was a direct correlation between authoritarianism and sexually aggressive behavior. An investigation done by Muehlenhard (1988) revealed that rape justification and aggression toward subordinate individuals was much higher in traditional conservative personality than non-traditional persons.
And if that wasn't enough, they add "Conservatism is not the doctrine of the intellectual elite or of the more intelligent segments of the population, but the reverse. By every measure available to us, conservative beliefs are found most frequently among the uniformed, the poorly educated, and the less intelligent".
Well!.... That about covers everything that one could possibly say positive about conservatives, no? What about the conservative desire to fight terrorism? Let's skip over to Maryland U (College Park) where DHS has empaneled a group of sociologists to determine where the next terrorist attack is likely to come from based on a populations political/ideological views. From their reports it becomes immediately obvious that conservatives are the focal point for their research as well. "Basic social, cognitive, and motivational differences may also explain why extreme right-wing movements are typically obsessed with purity, cleanliness, hygiene, structure, and order( )and why religious fundamentalism is so attractive to right-wing parties and followers in just about every nation stretching from North America to the Middle East."
And speaking of American conservatives specifically, we get this: “We now take it for granted that political conservatives tend to be for law and order but not gun control, against welfare but generous to corporations, protective of cultural traditions but antagonistic toward contemporary art and music, and wary of government but eager to weaken the separation of church and state. They are committed to freedom and individualism but perennially opposed to extending rights and liberties to disadvantaged minorities and others who blur traditional boundaries. There is no obvious political thread that runs through these diverse positions and no logical principle that renders them all consistent." http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~hannahk/reply.pdf
So...what are we supposed to be arguing anymore? Apparently everyone from the penal system to Homeland Security is aware of the shortcoming (to put it mildly) of conservatism. It's not an ideology. It's not just a different way of looking at things...no better, no worse than all the others. It is in fact a strong indication of an aggressive, simple-minded lout who means to make the rest of the world behave as stupidly as they. That's not an opinion. That's the fact of the matter. So that argument is over.
Now all we have to do is make the journalism crowd get up to speed with the intellectual crowd so that we can start marginalizing these people where-ever they are found. That we still elect these misfits should be a strong signal that mankind is still in puberty and has a lot of growing up to do if we are ever to think of ourselves as a wise and noble species.
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/95...
For such smart sounding people, the idea arises from those who know f-all about economic theory and even less about ethics. This "Night Watchman" notion that says capital markets are ethically self-regulating due a built in system of maximizing the most good for practitioners the same way it maximizes profits...is pure, unadulterated BUNK! This is actually imbuing money with a kind of "soul",...a mystical view of a mathematical process that could only be swallowed by someone with few critical thinking skills.
Would you happen to be a creationist as well, per chance? And I don't mean that as an aside. I'm quite serious. It related to why it is that you never ever find a religious fundementalist who is also a left-wing social liberal. Since RWA's and social conservatives both have the same cognitive style that allows them to reject info that doesn't fit their preconceptions, (eg. man walked with dinosaurs, greed is good) they are both well-suited to adopting such irrational ideas.
Anyhow. It got it's start from badly interpreted readings of Smith's "Wealth Of Nations". Probably by H. Spencer is most to blame, but there's been a lot of help from the self-serving industrialists who were desperate for a way to excuse their excesses back when the Industrial Revolution was clearly going off the rails due their greed and lust for power.
Now. I thought that crap had been dispensed with in the university discourse decades ago, but apparently the desperation of the GOP to get in the Dems face over something...ANYTHING!...has resurrected this nonsense. But the fact is, it has no more empirical grounding than Reefer Madness did when they decided to oppose Pot. Bunk, Bunk, and cruel, nasty, mean Bunk at that. Grow up!
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w4r517r19...
as i understand it,during the middle ages,romantic love was basically reserved for the nobility-the peasants had their marriages arranged,either formally or otherwise.today socialism is the exclusive remedy of the ruling class for meeting their obligations.the poor get blistered with victorian workhouse rhetoric,-"when ya fall,ya fall alone,till yore gratefully dead."that newsweek cover is obscene on so many levels-what a fatuous,insousciant,reactionary rag.happy valentines day-couldn't say that back in the days o'old-we peasants didn't have the words for it in the gibberish we wuz allowed to speak.we jest done whut we wuz told in th' middle o' the rode.
If you were all socialists, you would be reducing your military, you would begin to offer free unconditional healthcare to everyone who enters a hospital. You would lower crime by reducing the definition of crime to that which has a perpetrator and a victim, not crimes with no victims (drug crime). You would arrest and detain many of your leaders for Warcrimes pending their trials and you would remove the banking institutions from power over you and your currency.
You would immediately begin to help those who are downtrodden and become ashamed when even one person is wrongfully convicted of a crime. Each infraction is a stamp against your society as a whole.
It would be a government for the society, and to the societies best interests, not for the capital and the capitalists best interests (and the Banks and the families that own those banks)
If you went socialists you would become "normal" and "humane" as opposed to now.
Hell, if they were PEOPLE you'd think they'd be so embarrassed over their economic policies worldwide that they'd throw themselves off a cliff. But their lords and masters on Wall Street have more dirty work in store for the lot I suppose....
Just a couple of things:
1. all of you are eijits(purposeful misspelling so i dont offend you)
2. the best bailout is no bailout. the market is a complex organic system that will always try to maintain an equilibrium. when it goes above the equilibrium point then we have a situation like we do know. what the government needs to do is realize that they have to let some companies go out of business. that they have to help people through painful suffering that is going to take place in the short term instead of trying to be popular and ruining our economy forever.
3. communism and facism are on the opposite of political extremes. communism is left (no wonder) and preaches that we are all part of a whole and must sacrifice our personal freedoms for the good of our neighbor. now i dont know about you but i dont like the idea of not really owning anything or working my butt off without being compensated. facism on the otherhand is a form of overzealous nationalism. you must sacrifice freedoms for the good of the state (and we are not talking about a few tapped phone calls).
4. any move by a government to subjugate the market is a suicide move.
5. if they pass this bailout what happens the next time the market goes south. we will repeat this process all over again. so lets not start it.
6. if obama signs this bailout into law he should be impeached for gross neglect of the oath of office. he swore to protect and defend the constitution which protects our freedoms from the government. quick logical statement here: if the government controls the economy the next step is they control the companies the next step is they control our every action.
7. Lincoln is not a god. if you take a look at the actual history he wasnt even a great president. his presidential platform was to contain slavery where it was (notice it does not say eliminate slavery). the emanicipation proclamation did not free the slaves because it only applied to the slaves in states that were rebelling (notice it does not say anything about freeing the slaves in states that were still part of the union like maryland). this makes the emancipation proclamation little more than a moral vindication for the invasion of a sovereign nation (yes the confederate states of america was a sovereign nation. it declared its independence, formed a government, created a currency, raised and supplied a military. in short all of the things the colonies did when they signed the declaration of independence on july 4 1776, which is the date that we celebrate and not the date that we actually signed a peace treaty with england, which actually established independent of england). the civil war was not about freeing the slaves. to believe so is an gross oversimplification of the history leading up to the civil war. heres a quick history lesson. there had always been a balance of power in the congress, an equal number of slave states and free states. this meant that the senate was always balanced. the south felt that with lincoln's platform they would lose this balance of power and thus in effect become disenfranchised. since the creation of the constitution this balance of power was tenuously maintained the last such measure being the missouri compromise which created missouri as a slave state and maine as a free state. with the disenfranchisement of the south they felt that they would lose economically as well due to tariffs that would be enforced to protect the norths fledgling industry. furthermore, there is the issue of states rights (states choosing which laws they would follow and when). during the jefferson administration south carolina refused to follow a federal law and as a result jefferson nearly sent an army to make south carolina comply. fast forward a couple of years. congress passed the fugitive slave act which said all captured escaped slaves must be returned to their owners. there were 6 cases heard in philadelphia. of those six the state only followed the federal law three times. which means they did the same thing south carolina did and nearly got put under martial law but pa did not get punished at all. and then there was the abolitionist movement, which was relatively small and uninfluential at the start of the war but gained a huge boost with the emancipation proclamation (hmmmm if this movement to free the slaves didnt grow big until after the war started how can it be the one and only cause???) and finally you must remember that back during 1860's a persons loyalty lay with his or her home state first (maybe due to a lingering fear of a strong central government left over from the revolutionary war)which was why robert e lee turned lincolns offer to lead the union army down (he must have been a real evil evil man to receive such an offer). this loyalty to their home states is also why there were black infantry units fighting for the south, hey it was their home too. hopefully, i educated u a little. everything i have said can be validated using google. if you choose not to verify the facts and live in the simpleton belief about lincoln then you choose to live in ignorance and wish you the best. how lincoln handled the reconstruction would have truly shown if he was a great president or not and unfortunately we will never know. things might have been very different from the way they turned out.
8. (I am going to slam with another thought heavy bullet) a fairly free market is what has allowed us to become the country we have today. it has allowed people with the ingenuity and courage to open up new sectors of the economy and exploit old ones more fully (exploit does not necesarily mean in a bad way). imagine a truly socialist country where the government told bill gates and steve jobs that there was no room for their crazy idea and that they should focus on something practical and that benefits their neighbors, like sweeping the street or deliverying the mail? would we be sitting here typing on a pc or mac thinking of what songs i am going to put on my ipod. the answer is no. we can do those things because a fairly free market has allowed gates and jobs to market their hairbrained idea and make a success out of it. plus a free market has given americans a considerable amount of luxury not found in most of the world and you call it evil. i call it lucky.
9. people on this site talk about europe as if it is some kind of eutopia (correct spelling, look up the definition). news flash they are worse off than we are and you want us to follow their example. hmmm that doesnt sound too smart from people who have taken it upon themselves to educate themselves but still dont see whats going on beyond the borders of america.
10. if china's economy keeps tanking their government will collapse (people have theorized that it will happen if their gdp growth dips below 9%). quickest way to jumpstart an economy is to start a war (hitler did and brought the world out of the great depression). china wants taiwan back so we should really keep an eye on china (we have treaties with taiwan that i will let you research) or hell maybe we should give them a bailout and create a pan-pacific socialist conglomerate.
11. here's a nice simple one. this mess we are in right now is not all bush's fault. it goes further back and into some democratic administrations.
12. all of the pork barrel earmarks should be in a budget bill not a ill advised bailout bill. (political science 101)
13. all educated people are not democrats and all poor people aren't democrats. i am an educated man but am right now pretty poor. so before anyone accusses me of being a trust fund baby please don't.
14. darwin, i mean really who cares anymore. what if both evolutionaries and creationists are right. what if the seven days depicted in the bible actually spanned eons in measured time which would allow for creationism and evolution because organisms would have time to evolve from one of gods days to the next.
15. i have finally figured out why i get so many hate filled responses on this site. it is because i am educated person that defends a more conservative veiwpoint (partly because i believe in it more and partly because i like to play devil's advocate). that i also defend the points i make with facts and not hollow idealism or rantings. and that i can make a logical argument which or idealism and rantings have no power to overcome. if anyone wants to challenge me with a logical argument i welcome it with open arms like a flower embracing a drop of rain in this blue wasteland. (ten points to the person that can name the poem that alludes to, hint its pretty obvious).
anyways i am done now. looking forward to the reply's i get.
"Devil's Advocate" my ass.... You're a right-wing conservative who thinks he's smarter than other's because he has more "stuff" than most. In short, you're a Neanderthal.
Re: #3. I don't know how two political systems can be polar opposites if they both suppress personal freedoms. I like to think that both fascism and communisim are totalitarian regimes that have a lot of similar traits.
Re: #14. I don't really buy the argument that maybe one of God's "days" are different from one of our "days". Its always sounded like the equivalent of trying to put a square peg into a round hole. An extreme extention of this argument is that God put dinosaur bones on earth just to test man's faith. I mean, maybe you're right, but it just doesn't sit right for me.
As for the rest of your post, I have no problem with someone presenting an alternative point of view on this site. I reject the automatic use of the word "troll" to someone who doesn't fall in line with the groupthink. So, though, I may not agree with most of your beliefs, you have every right to present them and not have a name thrown at you.
fair enough. besides i dont really believe the whole gods day thing i either just wanted to offer a different possible reality where there was no hatred.
The economic bailout plan was signed into law on October 3rd, 2008 by President Bush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Econom...
http://www-cdn.npr.org/templates/story/story....
The economic stimulus bill is probably what you’re trying to rant about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recover...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/us/politics...
I'm not sure what facism is, but Fascism is defined as follows:
a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism
As far as Darwin goes, I'm afraid there is not much hope for your species and soon you will be extinct. Sorry about that.
Oh, as far as being an educated person, I'll lift a quote from your last post and let that speak for itself.
______________________________________________________________
Fri, 02/13/2009 - 11:06 — Chris Yoder
15. i have finally figured out why i get so many hate filled responses on this site. it is because i am educated person
______________________________________________________________
One last thing, it's "idgit" not "eijit". I don't think you purposely misspelled it, I think you don't know how to spell it. Try looking it up before you use it, so you don't come off looking like said reference. Here's a link.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?ter...
i am your species moron. and yes political systems can be polar opposites of each other and still suppress freedoms. athens was the first democracy but killed one of the most intellectual men in history because he was a sophist and believed to be a corrupter of the youth. stalin was a dictator and killed millions. polar opposites still suppressed freedoms. economic stimulus or bailout. whatever, the argument applies to both. the government needs to stop interfering with the market. plain and simple. by giving bailouts and stimulus packages the government is trying to subjugate the market which is wrong and will have serious repercussions years from now. and who really cares how you spell a derivative of idiot. its sad you took the time to find an urban dictionary.
...sounding person, you seem to know f all about economic theory and even less about ethics. This "Night Watchman" notion that says capital markets are ethically self-regulating due a built in system of maximizing the most good for practitioners the same way it maximizes profits...is pure, unadulterated BUNK! This is actually imbuing money with a kind of "soul",...a mystical view of a mathematical process that could only be swallowed by someone with few critical thinking skills. Would you happen to be a creationist as well, per chance? And I don't mean that as an aside. I'm quite serious. It relateds to why it is that you never ever find a religious fundementalist who is also a left-wing social liberal. Sin RWA's.
Anyhow. It got it's start from badly interpreted readings of Smith's "Wealth Of Nations". Probably by H. Spencer is most to blame, but there's been a lot of help from the self-serving industrialists who were desperate for a way to excuse their excesses back when the Industrial Revolution was clearly going off the rails due their greed and lust for power.
Now. I thought that crap had been dispensed with in the university discourse decades ago, but apparently the desperation of the GOP to get in the Dems face over something...ANYTHING!...has resurrected this nonsense. But the fact is, it has no more empirical grounding than Reefer Madness did when they decided to oppose Pot. Bunk, Bunk, and cruel, nasty, mean Bunk at that. Grow up.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w4r517r19...
Okay, Chris, you am educated person. Guess I shouldn't have tangled with you.
We are ALL Socialists now??!
But, the very best converts, the ones who are far and away leading the pack, are the very conservative, Republican supporting, reich-wing corporate CEOs and bank/financial institution presidents who have recently stuffed $1 trillion or more of OUR hard-earned dollars into their fat-ass pockets!
I heard on NPR this morning that Pierce County in Washington (my state) is trying to ditch ranked voting (also known as instant runoff voting) which they just adopted a couple of years ago. They want to put it to the voters which is weird because I think it was put to the voters before it was adopted. THe voters support it. It's the politicians who don't like it because it upsets that status quo.
http://www prison planet dot com/beijing-skyscraper-fire-the-silence-is-deafening.html
Massive steel structure burns out - fails to collapse.
So much for the NIST explanation of thermal expansion.
Their science is not replicated. What other hypothesis still stands?
its never been about the truth , its allways been on how to cover up the reality!
I wish it weren't so. Especially from the left. But they also have their horrible skeletons to hide, so they play the game too.
well its sad to say but thier are far to many on the left who arent any smarter then on the right, when asked to check if a guns loaded they most likely would look down the barrel and pull the trigger at the same time!
US now claims that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapon.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washi...
That's some change we have there.
Newsweek has sucked for a while now.
Socialism just sounds so...so...
...Sociable.
i once had a collie that lived next door to me , it was a very pretty dog , but you could look into its eyes and tell it was as dumb as a tree stump, kind of like nancy pelosis eyes!
well i was 6ft 4 when i left the navy but some how i shrunk an inch over the yrs , to much heavy lifting is my suspicion!
jesus !hold on here! just checking the death notices in the daily paper if im not in it ill get back to you and solve this mess for yah, dont go anywhere !
Didn't socialism and it's evil twins fascism and communism kill over 200 million people in the last century or so?
Look at this unusual image: Kinda freaky....
NewsWeek Cover Art = INGSOC: WE ARE ALL SOCIALIST NOW
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Unredacted_docu...
Human rights groups accuse Pentagon of shadow prison sites:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Revealed_Pentag...
What will it take people? What will it take?
They also seem to posit several different evolutionary tracks or "branches" simultaneously. There seems to be a race of pre-hominids that had nothing to do with Africa, but Asia, and only stood about three feet tall, and lived into the early history of homo sapiens, and could've been a basis for beliefs in goblins and brownies.
But if you eat them don't choke on the nuts.
Same could be said for the belief in giants. From what I gather, the average height of ancient man was anywhere from six inches to a full foot shorter than modern man. Come across the oddball stone age man or tribe who happens to be 6'4" or taller through hereditary traits, wouldn't he seem like a giant to you?
But wouldn't they be considerably shorter if they were shoeless?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6NkcvsX4Rw
I'm only 5'6", First pair of shoe I buy are gonna have lifts.
I'm 5'3", hence the joke of my nom de 'guerre.
I thought all things were bigger down in Texas.
Gotta go, working the overnight shift.
later
Here's a letter I sent to the Dallas Morning Nudes on the 200th anniverary of Charles Darwin's birth, and their coverage.
They won't print it; their max is 200 words and this is 403:
(Please edit as you see fit, preserving the essential argument[s]).
403 words
In the column by Kelly Coghlan, he betrayed himself. First off, he’s trying to simplify the views of the pro-science faction as being atheist, disregarding that it runs across religious and philosophical beliefs. This statement is both an Argumentum ad Reductio and a False Dilemma proposition, that seems to suggest you’re either for “Intelligent Design,” or you don’t believe in God, despite his protestations that retaining the weakness and strengths argument in the teaching of evolution is scientific. He talked about this stance being used for “decades,” when in actuality it was only two decades, when the committee only debates and votes on this issue every ten years. Of course Texas will be “targeted,” since our state is one of the biggest buyers of textbooks, and influences what will be sold in other states.
Gaps in the fossil record are to be expected since not all organic life forms are fossilized, that requires specific conditions. As for the “origin of life chemistry” and DNA information gaps, what he proposes is God in the Gaps solutions based on faith, not seeking the answer, or acknowledging that humans and chimps share 97% of the same DNA. He also cited unspecified biology and even health instructors who want to teach weaknesses, but since he supplies no names, we have only his word for this.
He really tips his hand when he refers to changes in micro-evolution as, “…a good DESIGNER would design each creature with built-in abilities…” What is that but admission that his position is intelligent design? This sounds reminiscent of William Paley’s watchmaker analogy. He even uses a bit of their lingo when he speaks of “weaknesses,” in evolution, using the example of “irreducibly complex biological features.”
Almost all these points can be found in the Discovery Institute’s position supportive of Intelligent Design, which they admit has no theory, but the political purpose which sounds Dominionist, the Bible taking the place of the Constitution. All of the “scientific weaknesses” have been proven by the case of Katzmiller v the Dover School District (2005) to be Creationism in disguise, a teaching which is illegal in science classes, for not being scientific.
Couglin being a lawyer who has written the Schoolchildren’s Religious Liberty Act, immediately makes his views suspect, which is that this is about religion not science. His arguments are weak and non-convincing. Would he advocate people hire a butcher to represent them in court?
.
An interesting article in the most recent National Geographic about Modern Darwins. Todays biologists beleive that evolution not only occurs at the "glacial rate" that Darwin put forth, but also in "real time", from generation to generation dependent on enviornmental conditions like weather, food sources, competition with rival species and as a responce to preditors.
Sounds like that doesn't leave too many gaps for God to fill it for.
Apparently, Mary the mother of Jesus, believed in God in the Gap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1LIrzsgqA
I was in the mall the other day and stepped into the Gap. I had an epiphany.
Hope you had someone holding down your tongue
Preferably with their own tongue
Like one of those gals working at the Frederick of Hollywood stores.
I'm banned from Frederick of Hollywood stores for life.
Why is this a-hole still around? Rick Santorum Goes All “Crusades” Again - http://allspinzone.com/wp/2009/02/12/rick-san...
Hey Rick...why don't you sit down with your children and another dead fetus and describe to them in detail what you meant by 'man on dog'.....psycho...
YAY! Good news: Another spectacular $50 billion no nukes victory for the forces of Solartopia - http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/7/20...
For the third straight year, against all odds, a national grassroots No Nukes campaign has stripped out of the federal budget a proposed $50 billion boondoggle for new atomic reactors.
They're tragically expensive, heavily-heavily subsidized, dangerous, and a completely wasteful (water, etc) money pit...
Republican 'Free Market' 'Great Economy' Update: U.S. Jobless-Benefit Rolls Increase to 4.81 Million - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
6 hour long lines in Atlanta....yeah, they're lazy, they don't want to work....they need bootstraps damn it!
Foreclosures push U.S. home prices to 5-year low - http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTR...
Foreign 'investors' are over here looting real estate left & right, pretty soon China & Saudi Arabia won't just own our Treasury, they'll own the land too...
Another 'miracle' of the 'free market'...yay....more 'free market' magic please!
Brad Blog: Court Awards Votes to Franken in Coleman's U.S. Senate Election Contest in MN - http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6909
Poll: With 69 percent approval, Obama has political firepower - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/61991.html
Culture of Corruption Update: Another Once-Mighty GOP Neanderthal Takes Another Hit: Domenici’s records subpoenaed in U.S. attorneys probe. And, even more fun: It's related to Gonzales, Rove, Bush and ProsecutorGate!
- http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/11/domenici-...
Krugman: Obama on nationalization - http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/o...
And the argument that our culture won’t stand for nationalization — well, our culture isn’t too friendly towards bank bailouts of any kind. Yet those bailouts are necessary; and even in America they may be more palatable if taxpayers at least get to throw the bums out.
Oh, and not a week goes by without the FDIC taking several smaller banks into receivership. Nationalization is actually as American as apple pie.
Treasury Stick-up Update: Bank bailout: four months later, and no forward movement - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/620...
As if we didn't already know: Pelosi's Office: Conservative Talking Point About $30 Million For Mice Is 'Fabrication' - http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/stimulus-pa...
David Sirota: Help Pass the Stimulus Right Now - http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/200902071...
USA Today Poll: Most Americans 62% Want Bush Administration Investigated to Determine if There Were Violations of the Law - http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-...
To the 3% who had no opinion....why do you even bother getting up in the morning?
How poetic: House GOP Leader Cantor refuses to apologize for profanity laced broadside at workers - http://www.examiner.com/x-2071-DC-Special-Int...
I think he's in line to become my house of reps whipping boy....another Abramoff disciple Sorry Senate, James 'I wish I had a brain' Inhofe is a charter member and will always be #1 as long as he is there...
Republicans & con-servative 'centrists' threatening national security (what else is new?): The global economic crisis has become the biggest near-term U.S. security concern, sowing instability in a quarter of the world's countries and threatening destructive trade wars, U.S. intelligence agencies reported on Thursday.
- http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTR...
Axelrod To Bush Advisers: Butt Out - http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2009/...
Get those green jobs flowing, Bernie Sanders to head new green jobs panel in Senate. - http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2009/2/12/15...
America's Senator, this is the single best appointment in years...go Bernie!
Political Irony: http://politicalirony.com/2009/02/12/satire-r...
http://politicalirony.com/2009/02/13/pin-the-...
The Color of Stimulus, The economic-recovery bill includes green funding and drops nuclear and coal subsidies. - http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2009/2/12/83...
While we're at it...lets start playing the republican's naming/framing game....why not call it the 'jobs plan' then lets see those a-holes vote against that!
Guiding Satellite, NASA will launch a satellite to monitor the planet's carbon dioxide levels. - http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/ca...
After the Bush crime family mothballed the 100 million dollar ready to lauch DSCOVR satellite and turned down France's offer to launch it FOR FREE....NASA is now heading back on track - God Speed to Scott Gration if he takes the job
Damn those bastards, haven't they stolen enough of our money already? Wall Street executives trying to get to get US Government to recover its costs for the bank bailout by raiding our nation's Social Security funds - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/greider...
I'm sorry anyone who defends Wall Street, has a serious malfunction, bad wiring, or they're just plain stupid... Pitchforks, ha, if they do this....it will be a lot more than that...
If this goes down, this would make me an independent in less than 10 seconds...
Pigs & Monkeys Claim They're Just About to Fly; Oil industry executives 'say' they want to work with Obama administration on global warming - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/science/ear...
At the same time, they declared that the country would still need oil for a long time, and sought to persuade the new administration of the need for more drilling off the nation's coasts.
Exxon Mobil, which had long been skeptical (err...denying) of global warming (still are), offered its 'own suggestions'. One of the company’s top executives, Michael J. Dolan, said that Exxon would back a tax on carbon, while criticizing a so-called cap-and-trade approach.
Under the cap-and-trade formula, which has considerable momentum in Washington, the government would set a ceiling on how much carbon dioxide could be emitted into the atmosphere each year. It would then give or sell permits that companies would be allowed to trade to meet their limit. Emitting carbon dioxide at present involves no penalties in the United States, meaning that companies have little incentive to curb their pollution.
Yeah....cap & trade with 100% auctions is the only way to go, if they 'institute a tax' then the moronic right wingnuts & other denier fetishists...will destroy any chance we have at educating & protecting the citizens of this country....of course they 'want a tax' so they can spend tens of billions of dollars railing about it....
Enough support in Congress for renewable energy standard - http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNew...
This is a huge, huge step... Somewhere in Oklahoma, James 'I wish I had a brain' Inhofe's family is cowering in a corner crying their sorrows over spilt martinis
FINALLY!!! SOMEBODY SAID IT! Barney Frank: Cut the Military Budget - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/frank
Gregg + Bipartisanship = Zero. P.M. Carpenter Exclusively on BuzzFlash for Friday, February 13 Obama as president very much wanted a nice, pleasant and Kennedyesque game of touch football, but Republicans see themselves as apocalyptic commandos in the throat-cutting Thunderdome. Ironically, the president's bipartisan overtures could in the years to come eventuate an intensifying partisanship.
I can easily envision near-future Dems campaigning for high office, avowing that they have little good to say about crossing-the-aisle attempts. Just remember all the heartburn President Obama suffered when he tried that routine, they'll say, and they'll further promise not to make the same mistake.
- http://buzzflash.com/articles/carpenter/311
Gregg is a scumbag liar: Calculated political posturing - http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/12/1...
According to MSNBC's John Yang, all indications are that Judd Gregg didn't even tell the White House that he had decided to withdraw his name from consideration for the cabinet before announcing it publicly. Gregg also released his statement just as President Obama was about to speak at the Caterpillar plant in Peoria, Illinois. (Caterpillar has said that as soon as the stimulus is signed into law, it can begin rehiring laid-off workers.)
All this strongly suggests that Gregg's move was calculated partisan politics, and it underscores this fundamental truth of modern politics: the Republican Party can not, and will not, put partisan politics aside for the good of the country. With near unanimity, they are utterly incapable of compromise.
If the Dems don't start sharpening their teeth and biting into these a-holes, we're screwed... Time for a full court press Obama...
Oklahoma has new competition for dumbest state: Hidden guns approved for Arkansas churches - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article....
Imagine: Two rednecks having a friendly debate about who loves Jesus more, then...its gets out of hand...yeah, good thing guns are allowed in there, eh? Talk about PRO LIFE!!!
John, I agree with you to the extent that too much of anything is bad; however, so is not enough. I would hope that you would agree with the premise that civilization, as we know it, could not exist without government. And our government is one of many in the global community, which as a result of our Constitution and its’ public support enjoys a distinguished status among all nations. It is not by accident that this is so. One of the prominent reasons is the protections and benefits our citizens receive from their government. Of course, as citizens, we must always be on guard against attempts, even made with the best of intentions, to destroy the equilibrium between unneeded government intervention and onerous destruction of individual freedoms.
Your posting contains several examples of earmarks. Unfortunately, the word “earmark” has developed a bad connotation as result of past widespread abuses of the process by many members of Congress. But, in reality, earmarks are nothing more than a method of directing funds to be spent for specific purposes. Obviously you classify these spending priorities as either an intrusion upon your individual freedoms or a waste of money. They are neither. They represent an effort by our government to protect the health and welfare of its citizens and develop systems and regulations to meet the challenges that most informed individuals believe we face in the future. The last eight years of Republican governance with its widespread abuses of power and lack of oversight with regard to the environment, the health and welfare of its citizens, and misplaced priorities regarding the economy and global challenges should at least raise your concerns that they had the wrong approach. Of course, any enterprise can develop a well-designed initiative and spend the money poorly or otherwise screw up the implementation. However, that is yet to be seen, and given the Bush Administration’s talent for wasting taxpayers’ money on useless endeavors, this Administration could hardly do worse. The Bush admonition to take individual responsibility was nothing more than a mantra to allow them to abrogate their duties and responsibilities to safeguard our citizens.
Maybe I'm just grumpy this morning but we'll have a "socialist" society when we have universal health care like every other first world country, when we don't need contractors' profits to suck the stimulus out of the stimulus package and when corporate whistleblowers are specifically prohibited from protections.
Reminds me why I haven't read a Newsweek in, well, decades.
I couldn't have said it better myself. It seems odd that we never see any covers like this when the rich are being subsidized, only when everyone else gets something back is it Socialism.
Capitalism will fail if you do not have a lot of money
Another "letter" intended for Romney ended up in a Texas mail room.
I don't know what its like for others in the US and other parts of Canada but here on the west coast of Canada, gas prices have risen again to nearly $1.00/litre. From what I gather the price of oil has remained pretty steady at around $40/barrel or slightly lower. So, what gives?
GNA! It's been fun.
Nothing in the US Constitution specifies that the US should have a capitalist economic system.
In fact a Socialist economic system would obviously better guarantee our "unalienable rights of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
Without adequate Health Care, Education, Food and Shelter .. how are "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" possible?
There is nothing in the Constitution that gives Congress the power to authorize any kind of economic system.
All the powers of Congress are spelled out in Article 1, Section 8.
One could totally read into the Commerce Clause that Congress has the power to do whatever they like when it comes to commerce in the US, even though that was far from the original intent.
The recent interpretations of the Commerce Clause (the past few decades) have allowed the Federal Government to intrude into all sorts of areas where it was never intended.
Socialism has been tried over.. and over.. and over again. It is an ancient uptopian idea that fails every time. It equalizes everything all right... it makes everybody equally miserable.
What the Constitution does specify is that you guaranteed your rights. Its up to you to get up off your ass and do something with that freedom. In a free society, the government does not have the right to take your wealth to redistribute it or force you to see what doctor you dont want to see. The government does not have rights, or the right to set prices, tell CEO's what they can or cannot be paid, or tell you what to teach your children.
The Constitution was not written to make life fair, but to make the playing field fair. The pilgrims were the first Americans to give it a shot and it didnt work out so well.
Then again.. I suppose we became the most powerful, wealthy, creative and smartest people in the world because LIBERTY DIDNT WORK.
Wake. The. F*ck. UP.
I guess Animal Farm must no longer be read at public school, how do people think the USSR got started. It started with an idea that looked good on paper but was anything but in the end.
you have no idea where the money is going to come from. BTW Get ready to bend over for...
Congress kills plan to recover Wall Street bonuses
Congress kills plan, approved in Senate stimulus bill, to recover Wall Street bonuses
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Congress-kills-...
Looting Social Security
The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090302/greider...
LET THEM EAT CUPCAKES!!
I've got a news flash for the geniuses at Newsweek: The only acts of government that aren't socialism are those despotic acts that involve preying upon the citizenry and those acts that are criminal in nature and intent. Any act that represents an investment in the continuity of society, that stands for community and people is based in socialism: Police? Socialism. A common defense? Socialism. Emergency services? Socialism. Public education? Socialism Interstate highway system? Socialism. Air transport and air traffic control? Socialism. Management of our public seaways and waterways? Socialism. Provision for a national treasury? Socialism. Healthcare for any segment of the population at any any level of coverage? Socialism. Judicial system? Socialism. Park system? Socialism. Bureau of Land Management? Socialism. Coast Guard? Socialism. National Guard? Socialism.Veterans Affirs? Socialism. I can do this all night.
And just for the record....the TARP scam isn't socialism, because it has provided zero benefit to the People and to society. That clusterfuck was just plain ole crony capitalism, a merger of industry and government for the exclusive benefit of a bunch of plutocrats. In other words, fascism.
Capitalism and Fascism are the same?
Is Barack Obama a thug? Do blackberries equal inner city gangs? I don't know, but read the top line of the above cover. It states:
THE BLACKBERRY PRESIDENT QUITTING THE THUG LIFE
This is what this thread is all about. Equating Obama with the "thug life". These "journalists" want people to equate Obama with "thugs", meaning gangbangers.
THIS COVER IS RACIST!!!! Am I the only one who sees this????
to Newsweek or Time. I see your point but, I think they will argue that the separated them by colors. I think the inside story is probably more telling.
Peter Schiff On Kudlow & Co: Money Makers
Just listen to their arguments the other experts try to use to against Peter, they are laughable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uETjCQfQsWw
and Jim Rogers did a better job of explaining things than any of the economists on TV
Jim Rogers Says Geithner Caused Crisis, Must Let Banks Fail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6sMOQCycpk
Who is going to loan it us, China?
China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasuries, Yu Says (Update2)
Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won’t be eroded by “reckless policies,” said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.
The U.S. “should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way,” Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
This is a left site. You dont want to be exposing far right economics to 'progressives'. Only the government can solve problems it creates!
ps. I hope Schiff decides to run against Dodd. I would jump for joy to see a real conservative unseat that scumbag.
Government run well solves problems; your ilk, though, prefer to run government badly, thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Why can't we get a real debate going between the Krugmans and the Schiffs of the economic world?
Id buy tickets and bring the kids to that debate!
in a debate, he dominates every debate encounter he has leaving the the opposite grasping at straws. Even in the video above Debra Brede and Robert Froehlich were left swinging at the air with lame arguments. Schiff effortlessly exposes peoples lack of knowledge, you could tell both of these two were simply making stock picks and had no breadth of monetary history or understanding of economics.
So many of these experts are little more than peddlers of investment tools for the companies they work at and are bound by contract to not even discuss options outside of their company offerings, which of course are derived from the larger firms currently failing and sucking on the government tit.
Krugman is frightfully vague in every debate he has, he only looks smart because he only debates the utterly clueless. Yet he is never specific. He has yet to explain in detail how borrowing more money is going to help a nation bleeding to death from foreign debt or how or why China will keep extending it to us.
we need to start teaching the rules of acquisition soon then, I'm sure that'll make us better as a species [tee hee].
Specifically to jon...
Did you have to pay for your own School teacher growing Up?
Do you have to Pay for your own Cop?
Do you have to pay for your own Fireman?
I'm pretty sure you are a policy holder for some sort of Insurance plan!
All of these are based in SOCIALSIM
How come now all of a sudden your are terrified over SOCIALISM?
A country can have aspects of other governments and not TOTALLY be that government. We were not socialist before, We are not now...
I would much rather have a little more socialism in my government than have a little more totalitarianism in my Bussiness...
I trust my Government A little more than I trust bussiness because Now Business is More powerful than government. I can petition My government and hold it accountable I CAN'T PETITION a Business cause they don't care about anything but profit...and they can Refuse my business and slander me to the Nth degree because they have WAAAAY more money than I do and can afford better lawyers and destroy me...
Face it Business is the new fascism and you are voting for fascism!
Late,
QSE32
One might say there are antisocial tendencies.
Bob Dylan - Chimes of Freedom 1964 live
all your base are belong to us
…I won’t miss Newsweek after it’s gone. How about this headline: “Can Newsweek survive the 2nd Great Depression”.
No link yet.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090213/ts_nm/us_...
So much for Bush preventing another 9/11...
in order to have the strength to spend all that stimulus money.
As a scientist the more I consider the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) theory, the FSM theory has a lot going for it. First, it should satisfy even the most ardent Intelligent Design detractors. Secondly, since everyone needs to eat and to believe in something, the FSM theory fulfills these desires. Finally, FSM neatly ties together the many ideas about the creation of the universe. I plan on exposing my students to the FSM theory over a pasta dinner.
RAmen
http://www.venganza.org/
Nah, God is a giant space penis. Just look at everything he's made or done and you'll realize he's nothing but a dick.
I was at my parent's house and saw this cover.
Newsweek has become a rag. Socialist??!! I wish. But that's not the travesty. Check out the top line of the magazine, it states, "The Blackberry President quitting the thug life".
Seriously, WTF!!!! They use no punctuation to determine the difference between the "Blackberry President" and "Quitting the Thug Life". Are we to assume that Obama is a thug, i.e. gangster i.e. inner city black????!!!!
Once inside, you see that there's an article about gang members leaving gang life, but from the cover it implies that Obama is some kind of inner city "thug" (read black).
Shame on you, Newsweek. Just like comparing Vietnam the week before.
This week their misleading crap ass headline accused the Obama Administration of intentionally understating the severity of the economic downturn. That's their form of journalistic quality reporting? By whose standards--Pravda?
how can one be 'fear mongering' while simultaneously 'understating' the problem. Could it be more BS from the main stream media? Survey says "Likely"...
for your Neocon masters---Newsweek is the result. These neanderthals of the media make Pravda look like positively competent in comparison.
As we become more like Europe life will get better for everyone. Looking back on the dark days of the Bush years when the people's money was spent on corporate welfare and war profiteering, the light of this new era will bring comfort to the middle and working classes who have been deliberately deprived by the rich since the beginning of the industrial age. We should try to become democratic socialist, not any other kind of socialist. That is the best system.
"As we become more like Europe life will get better for everyone"
"We should try to become democratic socialist, not any other kind of socialist. That is the best system."
This is the United States Of America, NOT Europe. If you wish to live in a system such as theirs, guess what? you can move there....Stop trying to change this country into any form of socialistic system. For anyone who does not like the system, you can always leave. I am sure Europe would love to have you.
I thought by your silence you'd left the building. Now that you're here, what were the earmarks you thought were so ludicrous and why?
Your posts confirm the stereotype of the ignorant, stupid American held by most everyone else in the world. John, we care about the United States. That's why we wish to improve it by pushing the 1% capitalist ruling class out of the way and implementing more humane, fair, practical and effective socialist policies. Get out of the way, John, or we'll run right over you.
...were racist because they voted for Obama...ignoring the fact that we also voted for fellow Democrats Carter, Clinton, Gore and Kerry with similar high percentages. This dumb fuck surely listens to Rush and Hannity.
like Amerukuh. If you'd spend some time in Italy you'd be singing a different tune but you're stuck in your moms' basement eating cheetos and playing x box while listening to Rushbo. Just tell us one thing that the moron presnit did during his eight year reign of (t)error. One thing, c'mon put down the cheetos we all await your erudite response...........
'Love it or leave it.'
'Better dead than red.'
you get beat down by the plutocrats every day of your life, yet you still crawl back to them and lick the shit off their boots, hoping THIS time they'll let you into the manor house.
Tell ya what, sparky...how 'bout doin' us all a favour and follow your second point.
like bailing out wall street on my honestly paid tax dollar? while tax cheat timmy egghead in a jeri curl keeps the dog and pony show alive a little while longer?
you are OUT OF YOUR MIND, AMIGO.
?
.
Tell me you're not this stupid. Please-- it's embarrassing just to *read* this crap.
Socialism is an economic system, not a political one. It may surprise you to learn that unrestrained capitalism is not part of the Constitution. The country could be every bit as socialist as France, and still be completely in line with the Constitution.
It's the the American far-right that's tried to transform this country into something else-- a fascist state, to be precise. I believe they're the only ones that ever attempted a military coup. It's you and your ilk that need to take a fucking walk.
What you said.
I appreciate this moron showing up...it gives me a way to stay awake at 3AM while working through a painfully slow midnight shift. Good entertainment.
..to see how distressed the unfolding of current event is making you GOPers. Social and economic justice are concepts you guys seem to have a big problem with.
I'm sure the Europeans would love to have us. On the other hand, I'm fairly confident that the Somalians would love to have you. Their
neo-feudaltrickle-down, despot-ruled system is the logical end and outcome of the ideas you guys value so dearly.My bet is that the socialist Europeans with their production based economies will fair better than America with its consumption based economy.
for four years. I loved it!
I like living here as well; I don't dislike it, except when Repubicans and conservatives try to ruin it; but if it weren't for my family and good friends, and if I could get a job in Europe again, I might just move back!
Oh, and by the way, many of us are descendant from Europeans...I know I am! I don't know why so many Republicans are so hostile to Europe and their "evil" brand of socialism.
Tough shit if you don't like the way the country is going. It was your hero george bush who started the move towards socialism anyway. I like it just fine here, if you don't like progress you should follow glen beck and move out of America.
The United States of Europe: The New Superpower and the end of American Supremacy
www.amazon.com/united-states-superpower-supre...
You chest thumping America Firsters need to get a clue.
Sorry I don't respond to trolls who infest this wonderful site.
look, you wingnut stooge
ARE YOU BETTER OFF NOW THAN YOU WERE 8 YEARS AGO
IF YES....YOU ARE A CROOK AND WILL SOON BE IN PRISON
IF NO...THEN STFU...FOR YOU ARE JOE THE PLUMBER
... you are on fire.
and please don't be offended when i say your jew goggles are thicker than henry kissinger's, and that you could find anti-semitism buried in a box of wheaties.
i actually mean it as a complement because there are a lot of sick anti-semitic f$cks out there... like nazi pope's stooge.
What's a travesty is the loaded enuendo involved in the cover. Read my post below this. Ignore "John", he's just another brain-washed nitwit listening to Hannity. His day will come, soon.
found a really good article about this whole socialism/finacial crises ordeal in my bookmarks. It's by Chomsky and it's back in October of '08, but it is really good if anyone wants to check it out. http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArtic...
The pro-life people only hate abortion when it involves white babies, hence recent threats against Mrs. Octuplet. Bush's legacy: Al-Qaeda and the Taliban managed to get their hands on weapons caches. Barry asks, "What would Abe do?" Ken Skill-less hopes SCOTUS can undo his felony. Global warming is not for the birds. Most Americans refuse to believe in evolution. A court overturns a lawsuit against a vaccine believed to cause autism. Over 60 computers are missing from a Los Alamos nuclear weapons lab, as well as any possible Chinese scapegoat to excuse the staff's incompetence. Home prices are the worst in 30 years.
...I was interested in the Pew report, since it's also the 200th anniv., of Darwin's birth today. It is rather disheartening to see that such a large percentage of Americans do not accept his theories and that 64% or so think creationism should be taught in public schools along with the theory of evolution.
This distresses me because the fundamentalist whack-jobs who think this way have put a major damper on science education and the pursuit of all sciences (theory and empirical research). The study of the sciences is what has made our lives so comfortable (and long) and has enables us to follow other pursuits in the the liberal arts. And, it has and will enable us to develop the new technologies we desperately need to get us out of the ecological and economic messes
we'vethey've helped to make.Take matters into your own hands:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
The Truth is an Offense, But not a Sin ~ Roberto Marley
Both parties need their head checked and a 3 hour presentation from Chris Martenson is just what is needed
VegasRage, you've mentioned several times how "both parties" are corrupt, wasteful, and spending our future generation's money. Just wondering, did you express this same kind of rage during the last 8 years when bush was wasting BILLIONS and BILLIONS on an unnecessary war?
Just wondering, cuz I don't remember seeing you around crooksandliars until recently.
I have been on this board flogging the Bush administration since at least 2006 when I first learned of C&L. NeanderBush took us from a $5 trillion national debt to $10 trillion. He had no damn idea nor cared where the money was going to come from for the wars.
Rep. Pete Stark rightly pointed this pointed this in 2007
http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal/open-thread...
Bush played war like a novice card player plays poker throwing all the military cards out allowing the evil doers to sit back and trade cards, up the ante, and call without spending a dime. The Democrats may tax and spend as the Republicans love to point it out but the Republicans are worse; they lower taxes and spend what we don’t have anyways! That is stealth tax robbing the wealth of our nation hurting our global standing and destroys our currency. The argument both parties have over this is a sham! The problem is foreign debt, until that is addressed taxes mean very little.
The Republicans now dare to act as the party of fiscal responsibility after rubberstamping and/or turning a blind eye to asinine fiscal policies for 8 years. Their heads all belong on a post. Both parties voted for the bailout! Both parties are for this ridiculous stimulus! They both agree to the fiscal insanity of $770 billion out of $800 billion we don’t have and must borrow from China assuming they will. They moronically debate over an insignificant $30 billion in the face of an $800 billion catastrophe, and so Godzilla grows.
Right now both parties are living on rainbow fluffy hope we will pay it one day and that runaway inflation won’t happen. They are f*******g us and our children and not bothering to kiss us first or have the decency to at least turn off the lights! Pitch forks and torches for the lot of them, run them out of town. They are using the nation’s fiscal ignorance to get away with this. They treat Ron Paul like a leper and while he has his faults and doesn’t always make a great presentation, in the end he will look like a champion of the people. He is one of very few who rightly pushes Bernanke’s ass up against the wall and leaves him without answer.
America better wake up and start to learn what these jokers in DC are doing to us all before it’s too late. Well, it’s already pretty close to too late, but I will raise a stink all the way writing my lack of state representative and bitching often on any site I can post on.
BTW I voted for Obama, but not because of his fiscal policies
Everyone should watch this, since it isn't taught in school anymore:
Monarchy ~ Oligarchy ~ Democracy ~ Republic ~ Anarchy
What is America's true form of government?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
So much better than the Lord serf scenerio.
A simple definition of fascism is that the means of production controls the government. I've been calling it a corporatocracy... government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations. That's not going to be easy to stop doing.
You get an A+ for current American history.
"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln
To honor Abe, I went to my local library this evening to hear a talk by a senior history major from Gettysburg College. His presentation was entitled "Lincoln and Racism" and it was quite excellent. It chronicled the development of Lincoln's thinking about race and slavery in particular, and how he worked behind the scenes, slowly and methodically to achieve his ideal of living up to the Declaration of Independence - that all are created equal and deserve their chance at the starting line of the race to make a good life.
I was interested to learn that in working to preserve and improve this Union, Lincoln held the Declaration to be the preeminent document, moreso than the Constitution, as it embodies our true human values, not just policies, laws and procedures that can be amended.
ADD: And, just a few minutes ago, I listened to Obama's speech at the
event in Springfield, Il, in honor of Abe's 200th. I would say
that is was inspiring and worth a listen, as Barry does seem
to embody much of Lincoln's thought in his oratory.
was a picture of Glenn Beck's big fat head and eyes!
I think I possibly saw some good news tonight. While flipping channels, I wound up on Fox and saw an ad for an upcoming Glenn Beck show. The announcer asked, "Will Glenn Beck move out of the United States due to the stimulus package?"
Oh, boy....I really hope he does!
Somalia is the single country on this planet that is most true to his ideals. He should apply for permanent residence there, with an eye on eventually obtaining citizenship.
I may never understand how people think more Government intervention and Bigger Government is a good thing...
I mean, at least give me an explanation as to why a Bigger Government is a good thing. The bigger it gets, the less freedom we will have until the people have had enough and a revolution is born once again.
Now as for the package being shoved down most Americans throats at the moment. Explain to me how anything listed below is going to stimulate the economy.
There are over 11,000 earmarks in this bill...
For example; There are earmarks for Del Monte and the Samoan Indians. Pelosi’s husband owns $70m stock in Del Monte, whose workforce is mostly Samoan Indians. That is a conflict of interest, and misuse of her congressional seat. She should be impeached.
Other examples include;
-- $100 million for the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Control Grant Program
-- $200 million to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund Program
-- $300 million for "Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs"
-- $900 million for the IRS for the "Limitation on Administrative Expenses"
-- $1 million for the Railroad Retirement Board for administrative costs
-- $2 billion for the Drinking Water State Revolving Act
-- $50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs
-- $1.1 billion for studies on the effectiveness of different medical treatments -- $200 million to upgrade labs and facilities for the Department of Agriculture "to improve workplace safety and mission-area efficiencies"
-- $10 million for urban canal inspection
-- $16 billion to pay for student financial aid
-- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
-- $600 million to pay for a fuel-efficient federal auto fleet
-- $650 million for the Digital Converter Box Program to help the constantly delayed transition from analog television
-- $485 million to the Forest Service for "hazardous fuels reduction and hazard mitigation activities in areas at high risk of catastrophic wildfire"
-- Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-- $40 million for the occupational research agenda
-- $3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control wellness programs and vaccinations
-- $410 million for Indian health facilities
-- $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations
This bill is down right Ludicrous!!
I'll take a shot at this.
Your premise (that more government equals less freedom) is too simple. First, "freedom" is contrained by any person or organization with more power than you. Government is merely one example. Corporations, unions, associations - all collectives in which organizational concerns set out in rules, policies, laws, etc. limit the free choice of individual members effectively contrain the freedom of individuals.
Second, some form of government is essential to prevent anarchy. Simply stating that bigger government is not a good thing, without specifying the manner in which the government is becoming "bigger", is too simplistic. I assume you have no objection to government managing public works (like infrastructure), or do you believe that roads, electricity, water etc. should be controlled by unaccountable, local, private monopolies able to charge monopoly prices and shut off essential services to those who cannot pay?
If you accept that government has some role, then all we're doing is arguing over whether the government should be involved specific endeavors - in this case, the stimulus package.
Regarding your complaints about the stimulus and the "earmarks", you are just repeating Republican talking points. The only thing that matters is that the money be spent. The earmarks are essentially irrelevant. In order to stimlate demand, it does not matter whether $1 billion is going to pay for a new census (though I note that an accurate census is long overdue and is essential to allocate social assistance and track demographic changes). It only matters that new census takers will be employed and paid. Providing census takers with employment income allows them to spend it, thus stimulating demand.
A similar argument can be made about all of the other earmarks you complain about. The government could stimulate demand simply by giving the money away (so long as it went to the bottom 50% of income earners or so). If the government gives the money away in exchange for a new census or new roads, so much the better.
I'm not getting it John. What is so "down right Ludicrous" about this bill. I'm, for the first time, pretty impressed with the projects being funded. The magnitude and far-reaching impact does this old heart good. I'm so tired of the attitude...."If I can't get mine, I don't want anyone else to get anything, either".
...the problem is capitalism. How else to explain the selfish lust for money behind all those "earmarks?"
You need to educate yourself. Among the G8 nations, the United States is at the bottom of the barrel in quality of life--including individual freedom. The reason is the other nations maintain mostly socialist policies while the U.S. maintain a dictatorship by the 1% capitalist ruling class.
You are being used. Take a look at the REAL world for a change.
However, it is not socialism that is bad, it is the system of socialism that the US has been saddled with since its inception. Socialism for the wealthy, and the free market for everyone else.
Why should taxpayers cover the risks of greedy speculators? And why would we buy toxic assets from these clowns? Wipe the banks out that speculated and filled their portfolios with questionable mortgages and other insecurities. Wipe them out.
Drop this bogus Eco Fascism and War of Terror and you will save a boatload of cash.
Understand that this is a Jobs Bill. Even though you may not want your paint to be lead free or your kids to go to school people will be employed in order to do those things.
It sounds bad when you just mention $600 million for fuel-efficient autos! WHAT?! That's crazy!!
But those autos won't be grown on trees. Many people will be employed to make those cars and maintain those cars. With the money they make from that employment they will go out and buy groceries, clothes and maybe even their own fuel efficient cars...and the cycle begins again.
We're not just spending these billions and losing them, they will be circulating in our economy.
I am mystified how people who say they understand investment creates jobs and wealth continue to think that by putting money in the hands of people with money (tax cuts) they will have the incentive to create.
If you take 100 dollars and give it to one person who have 100000 dollars they are more likely to save it. If you provide 1 dollar to 50 people through employment they are more than likely going to spend it on things they NEED while creating things WE NEED. The multiplier effect kicks in and the money spent creates jobs, provides goods and infrastructure, generates cash flow to others (you know M1 M2 M3....) and finally generates tax dollars back to the government. So that 100 dollars brings back income and sales taxes to the fed and states needing it.
Now you might say that the 100 dollars saved by the tax cut recipient would be then loaned by the banks, but that's the damn problem now isn't it. The banks aren't loaning and their balance sheets are stuck with toxic securities. They are more than likely going to use any funds they receive to fix their companies and not help the country as a whole. So if you want to grease the economic wheels in the short term you spend now to save later.
Many of the items above have been neglected in the last 8-15 years and sooner or later will need to be done anyway... we are not going to go down the privatization route so touted since it's just transferring our inherited shared wealth from past investments/generations to the current wealthy. There are things that only public sector can do and there are things best left to the private sector. The balance is always swinging, but it can not be all or the other.
On a final note: The money that is UNACCOUNTED for in Iraq by the last administration is easily equal to this amount. UNACCOUNTED for and we haven't even finished the audits . How is it that when money is spent to improve OUR country its pork (I see no bridges to nowhere above) and when more than 18 Billion is lost to pockets, swiss bank accounts and Cheney's cronies it's OK? Where is you outrage with that?
John, I agree with you to the extent that too much of anything is bad; however, so is not enough. I would hope that you would agree with the premise that civilization as we know it could not exist without government. And our government is one of many in the global community, which as a result of our Constitution and its’ public support enjoys a distinguished status among all nations. It is not by accident that this is so. One of the prominent reasons for this is the protections and benefits our citizens receive from their government. Of course, as citizens, we must always be on guard against attempts, even made with the best of intentions, to destroy the equilibrium between unneeded government intervention and onerous destruction of individual freedoms.
Your posting contains several examples of earmarks. Unfortunately, the word “earmark” has developed a bad connotation as result of past widespread abuses of the process by many members of Congress. But, in reality, earmarks are nothing more than a method of directing funds to be spent for specific purposes. Obviously you classify these spending priorities as either an intrusion upon your individual freedoms or a waste of money. They are neither. They represent an effort by our government to protect the health and welfare of its citizens and develop systems and regulations to meet the challenges that most informed individuals believe we face in the future. The last eight years of Republican governance with its widespread abuses of power and lack of oversight with regard to the environment, the health and welfare of its citizens, and misplaced priorities regarding the economy and global challenges should at least raise your concerns that they had the wrong approach. Of course, any enterprise can develop a well-designed initiative and spend the money poorly or otherwise screw up the implementation. However, that is yet to be seen, and given the Bush Administration’s talent for wasting taxpayers’ money on useless endeavors, this Administration could hardly do worse. The Bush admonition to take individual responsibility was nothing more than a mantra to allow them to abrogate their duties and responsibilities to safeguard our citizens.
Most of what is listed here creates jobs and helps financially those entities that need it. Removing lead pain, repairing/replacing underground storage tanks, inspecting water quality, helping poor Americans convert to digital, making vehicles that are fuel efficient, etc. etc. etc.
So John, please tell us how a small government (small enough to drown in a bathtub!) is good for America.
The only thing that stimulates the neocons is tax cuts & Rush Limbaugh. Nothing else works.
me just say that any of these things that you listed stimulate our economy much more than if we were to take the money and dump it in some foreign war like say IRAQ. Funny how you people on the right never complain though about the spending being to high when we are kicking the shit out of some poor country so that our elites can have a crack at their resources and markets.
And, if you are against education spending then you are just a total douche anyway. Education is the one area where we cannot afford to not spend in this day and age.
We don't have a problem with different viewpoints, but when you seemingly cut and paste segments from transcripts of shows hosted by people like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity, we see right through it. If this site doesn't jive with your political philosophy then I'm sure that there are plenty of them out there that do.
What would you take out?
Do you think it's ok that there is lead paint in many school throughout America?
You think battered women should just, "get over it?"
Safe drinking water NOT an issue for you?
Don't like the idea of people preventing injuries that could make waiting in hospitals a little less tolerable?
Don't like the ide of our canals being safe or our children getting college educations?
Tell me...which of these things do you find unnecessary?
John,
I think a lot of people here were aware of the spending in this bill. It's a pretty simple concept to grasp if you allow yourself... To stimulate the economy you will need to spend quite a bit of money. Under Bush, the money went straight into the corporations that helped cause the mess. Obama's administration has decided that the needed spending should actually go to good use and help us cut spending in the future.
Some of the things you listed make me wonder if you even gave it a double thought or if you just cut and pasted. Let's review a few real quick and then you might be able to get the hang of it yourself:
-600 million to pay for fuel efficient federal auto fleet
-Up to $1 billion for "summer activities" for youths as old as 24
-$10 million for urban canal inspection
- $1 billion to pay for the U.S. Census
What's the alternative John? Tax Cuts? The tax cuts that will give me an extra 20 bucks a week. And do you get a tax break if you don't have a job? Is that really going to save people? It's been tried and it failed miserably. And if you're complaining about the price tag and you're a republican, were you aware the tax cuts they proposed would end up costing 3 times as much as Obama's plan? So really, their only argument is that they think that if they do the same thing they've been doing, the same thing that's caused massive national debt, that it will work this time unlike the others. That's a pretty hard notion to buy into John.
Eight years of unrestrained, moronic economic policies under Bush and the GOP, and that didn't seem to bother you.
I hope this really makes you steamed. :)
I like everything you just listed. Money well spent. Every penny. The problem with you GOPers is that you don't give a happy damn about people. Only money and the power and privileges it buys at other people's expense. People and their problems are just meaningless abstractions to you.
Well...that's your problem.
Sure, Pelosi should be impeached. She is irredeemably corrupt and up to her ears in complicity with the criminals and monsters of the Bush regime and their toadying accomplices in Congress. Far as most of us can tell, she's really a Republican.
I might point out that the Samoams aren't Indians, and they are American citizens, too. The hard times that afflict us, touch their part of America, too.
Thanks for trying to "educate" us, but you'll probably find that most people here have taken on the duty to educate themselves as a personal responsibility, instead of passively allowing people of such noble-minded intentions like yourself do it for them.
Have a nice day...good luck with your fishing expedition.
Oh...BTW. McCain lost the election and his campaign closed down shop; you aren't going to score any McCain bonus points for trolling liberal/progressive blogs. That generous offer ended with McCain's campaign.
The MSM and pundits have taken our eye off the ball. "Big" government (a term open to debate) isn't the issue. It is big government run well. The Republicans run it horrifically so, of course, the conclusion is that govt is bad. However, if it is run well, then big or bigger government can do wonders. Do you think for one nanosecond that big corporations have your interest at heart? If you do, god help you.
As for big government, republicans seem to be afraid of the type of government they run, yes. What they don't think of in their rush to make it as small as possible is the importance of it's role in maintaining everything they trumpet. Without government regulation we would have factories like many in China. We most likely wouldn't be sitting here typing to each other as a middle class would be hard to find. When was the last time anyone saw a majority of America's corporations volunteer across the board raises? Doesn't happen - The majority would love to keep it as low as possible... That's the reason why so many undocumented workers get jobs... low wages and no restrictions for the working conditions. We need government to enforce what we as a public believe in. We need transparent and open government though, and we seem to lose that from time to time.
It can certainly be your worst enemy, but it can also do a world of good. What is rather certain, however, is that it's not going away. I think it would be more productive to look for ways to improve it rather than disparage it no matter what (except for the military of course... Republicans do love the gargantuan military..)
if you spend to invest...ultimately it pays dividends
the space program has always been overbloated...but it was the space program that spured on the pc revolution
too bad that we dont make pcs or parts anymore
WE CREATED THE FRIGGIN THING
The statement is made that "the bigger it (government) gets, the less freedom we have..."
I'm really curious about how this is the case. When I lived in The Netherlands, I saw all sorts of freedom, including some we do not have here. I'm not advocating legalized prostitution or legalized marijuana (not saying otherwise, either), but I'm just saying.....
Most of it is money well spent IMO, and the few things I might have found questionable are for like $2mil, chump change in the grand scheme of things...
Enjoy your short stay at C&L, you're sorely missed at little green footballs...
A nearly $800 billion stimulus package and you are freaking out over almost $30 billion in pork?!?!
What the hell ???
How about getting pissed at the $800 billion! Or at least the $770 billion!!?!?
Both parties are drunk with stimulus and NEITHER have a clue where the money is going to come from! NOT $800, NOT $770, NOT even $30 billion. You think China? Yeah OK good luck with that. Both Republicans and Democrats wield ZERO fiduciary responsibility and ZERO understanding of economics. By the time they do it will be too late. Anyone who thinks stimulating a debt ridden country with more debt needs their head checked.
It's not that hard to understand. If your credit cards are maxed and you are having trouble paying them down do you...
A) Tighten the belt, cut the cards up, and pay down the balance?
B) Go get another credit card and max it out on things to stimulate your personal economy?
If you answered B), please schedule to have a lobotomy at your earliest convenience.
God it's like no one ever learned what fiscal responsibility was, a bunch party parrots you are repeating everything you don't understand.
This is the FED's Base Money (1919 - November, 2008), we have NEVER printed this much currency in our history and not one of you can explain why this is going to help. Think people, this chart spans the Great Depression, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War, and 9/11 and look what we have done since just September of last year. HELLO!?!?!?!?!?!?!
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/fredgraph?s[1][id]=AMBNS
It's real easy to explain how it will screw us all though, hello $100 milk and bread, it's only a matter of a few years, 10 years tops before all hell breaks loose.
I respect Krugman's opinion and he's made the most sense thus far. You also can't question his mastering of economics. He makes the case it's necessary and probably even too small. I'll go with that instead of some tirade about getting into more debt as that will certainly happen when losing over half a million jobs a month. And your analogy seems off a bit, as we didn't run out of credit, our our whole system hit a depression. It would be like having a credit card full of debt and then losing your job. If someone said they would give you another job for 1000 bucks down the road, it would be more prudent to take the job so that you could pay him and the card back later.
When you use credit, you are creating debt! Soon enough your belief is not required because soon reality will force you to know the truth. What so few here understand is the economy was going to drop like and anvil no matter what we did. They call it a correction for a reason, the market is correcting, why would anyone try to stop that? That IS the medicine! The question is do you want a short sharp V shaped downturn or long agonizing L shaped one, Obama is leading us into a L shaped one.
Krugman? Krugman is vague and his arguments have been debunked again and again. I have listed many times here who has shattered his arguments already. Krugman has not explained why his position is right ever. Be careful what you rest your coat on, his Nobel prize was for trade patterns not economic downturns.
You might want to listen to other economists like Marc Faber, or if you want to another Nobel prize for economics who says the exact opposite of Krugman then listen to Nobel economist Joseph Stiglitz who says Let banks fail!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/4424418/Let-ba...
and does a better job explaining his position in detail.
Well, we aren't bailing out the banks with this bill, as far as I understand it. That was last year, and I would be prone to agree with not bailing them out.
Yes, credit is debt. You're obviously a master of the obvious.
Yes, we need to get the debt down, but we also need to have a stable economy to do so. You throw out a lot of obvious points but you don't have much substance behind your argument. I'm willing to listen to other ideas, but you need to put a little oomph in your argument. Thus far, I have yet to hear an economist say we shouldn't do anything.
You're just not a good salesman for your ideas, sorry. I'll promise you I'll read up on it though and I won't close off to other options... And please don't say Krugman has been debunked time and time again without relating it to what was debunked and providing a link to at least some rudimentary information on it. Thanks -
I would just like to hear more from each side (eg. Krugman vs. Schiff) so I could make a more informed opinion.
we handed them the keys
wtf....
lets spend into oblivion
I guess it's time to learn Mandarin and Cantonese
I thought you were already speaking it.
If people here are finding themselves broke month after month, I have a good idea why.
How many credit cards have you racked up? Seeing you think it's great way of stimulating the economy, just wondering.
none.
Did you look at the monetary base chart above dating back to 1919? We have never done that in our history to the dollar. That is unprecedented monetary inflation. We will never repay our national debt, but it will destroy the dollar.
None here have even an inkling of idea why a debt based stimulus is good, you can't explain where the money is going to come from, nor do any of you even ask.
hmmm Funny Democrats asked this very question to Bush on the Iraq war and the Republican's didn't have an answer then either. They had no idea where the money was going to come from except our old friends in China.
Rep. Pete Stark's speech to the Republicans
"Where are you going to get that money? Are you going to tell us lies like you're telling us today? Is that how you're going to fund the war? You don't have money to fund the war or children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xa5A5yW21I
that we will be putting on future generations. But, it has always been future generations that have paid the debt. Look at the real history of our debt even from the revolution.
For nearly 200 years this nation lived without inflation spare at times of war and our nation paid down those debts fast, we even knocked out WWII's debt for the most part, it wasn't until the Vietnam War we had a problem paying it down and in truth stopped trying, it has been on an exponential growth curve ever since. The last 38 years to be exact since detaching from gold in 1971. Go back and look at the chart and you will see a few years after 1970 the money base chart starts it's parabolic climb.
Unless you can explain why my points are wrong in detail I submit you might want to rethink your position. In a few years reality is going to prove this out and won't matter what any of us think. Our path will be blatantly obvious.
obbliterate the fact. Furure generatiopns have always paid the debt.
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