Beck gets Thomas Sowell to say USA is on a 'fascist' path
Glenn Beck likes to get people to say the word "fascist" when they're talking about the Obama administration. Yesterday it was Thomas Sowell's turn.
Beck: So let me start with that question: Are we still a capitalist country?
Sowell: Oh, heavens, partially. We're not a socialist country, because the socialists believe in government ownership of the means of production. But the fascists believe that the government should have private ownership, and the politicians should tell the people how to run their businesses. So that's the route we seem to be going.
Beck: So, what route is that? What route is that again?
Sowell: That the private people still own the businesses, but the politicians tell them what to do.
Beck: Right, but isn't that, uh ... Trying to remember, that's uh ...
Sowell: That's fascism.
Beck: Yeah, I was gonna say, I knew it was a bad one!
Ding! He just loves that word. Too bad he has no fricking idea what it really means.
Anyone who talks about fascism primarily as an economic system has no idea what the hell they're talking about. Fascism was also a social/political/cultural phenomenon, focused on a fetish about national honor and blood and soil and the instinctive will to power. It openly sneered at economists and economic analyses of history (which is, after all, what Marxism essentially was) and derided them as puling parasites. It only manifested any kind of economics after it had obtained power, and even then its economics were a mixed grab bag of responses to varying economic conditions. As Stanley Payne put it in Fascism: Comparison and Definition, "no fascist movement ever completed the elaboration of an economic system." For more on this, go read Payne, Robert O. Paxton, Roger Griffin, Walter Laqueur, Klaus Theweleit ... any of the many serious scholars of fascism who will confirm all of that above.)
Moreover, here's what we actually saw from fascism as an economic force once it attained power: It primarily set out to destroy the labor movement by outlawing unions, forcing workers to submit to state control, while propping up private captains of industry in order to build up a war machine. It also set about to attack international banking systems while freeing national banks.
Now, that's nothing like what Beck and Sowell want to describe as " fascist system. Now, a system whereby "the private people still own the businesses, but the politicians tell them what to do"? Hell, that's just classic "mixed capitalism," which has been around since at least the days of FDR.
You know, I got a certain amount of criticism when I decided to tackle Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism in a serious fashion. People wanted to know why I should even give it the time of day, instead of dismissing it out of hand as the profoundly unserious book it is.
Well, this is why: Because right-wingers will take that little Newspeak ball and run with it as far as they can.
It's now part of the right-wing conventional wisdom that President Obama is a "fascist." Isn't that special?
If Hitler were alive today who would he support. The Democratic Party or the GOP?
Nuff said.
Mussolini invented the word fascism and his definition is
"the perfect union of state and corporate power."
So they are both right.
As for Hitler, he would support neither, but he would embrace them
and lobby them like he did the Reichstag weenies, and get them to
cede him dictatorial power. You know like Bush in 2001!!
Sorry, but Mussolini never said that. It's a bogus quote.
What an honor!!! To be corrected by Neiwert!! Kinda!!
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
Kennedy also quotes Benito Mussolini's insight that "fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
"The biggest threat to American democracy is corporate power," Kennedy told us. "There is vogue in the White House to talk about the threat of big government. But since the beginning of our national history, our most visionary political leaders have warned the American public against the domination of government by corporate power. That warning is missing in the national debate right now. Because so much corporate money is going into politics, the Democratic Party itself has dropped the ball. They just quash discussion about the corrosive impact of excessive corporate power on American democracy."
www.commondreams.org/views05/0122-10.htm
...to remind people that Thomas Jefferson was stating his fear for our democracy at the hands of a corporate ruling class as early as the late 1770's.
It really doesn't matter if he said it or not, because the actual quotes that the article refers to actually validate the statement more than they refute it.
My mom was born in Rome in 1941 while my grandpa worked for
the ministry of finance. Latert that year they moved to San
Lorenzo en Campo, because grandpa joined the resistance.
So I HAVE TO get a Mussolini quote right and I will.
Working on it, I IMed mom shes sending me a translation.
"Il fascismo dovrebbe propriamente essere chiamato corporativismo perché è la fusione dello stato con il potere industriale."
But omg the uber right wing Italian websites are
CRAZY!! No wonder mom uses the word Berlusconi as a
curse!!! In this article Berlusconi calls judges that
don't do his bidding "Communists and a minority who
are meaningless" later saying they are "criminals or
journalists...which is the same thing"
Never say never! Homie!
He's a crazy man child. I find myself embarrassed for him.
girl's lunchbox. It is embarrassing.
I've never seen change without a fire
Uncle Tom, where have you been? He even says "guvment" like a southern white conservative.
himself, isn't he?
The way he lowers the political discourse in this country is a pox on us all...
I've never seen change without a fire
I have become to savvy with age and I'm not easily seduced by hype and especially the bullsh*t these guys at Fox are cranking out.
*
I've never seen change without a fire
I don't think it's going to be pretty...in fact I know it's not.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
*
I've never seen change without a fire
I betcha the word "house" will be there.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Oh yes!
I've never seen change without a fire
But the fascists believe that the government should have private ownership, and the politicians should tell the people how to run their businesses. So that's the route we seem to be going.
Sowell has it ass-backwards. Fascism is a government by corporatists (i.e., special interest groups) who may take the form of wealthy families, unions, corporations, associations, economic leaders, etc. Any or each of these corporatists by definition are not concerned with the public good -- a.k.a., the common weal -- and will actively attempt to derail any means for the citizen to impact on governmental policy. The neo-liberals and neo-cons of the last 3 decades in North America, Europe, New Zealand and Australia are glaring examples of governments that have been hijacked by fascism. The free trade agreements (FTAA, NAFTA) in North America are a pristine example of fascism as they allow for corporations to trump the sovereignty of citizens in another country. Witness the soft lumber dispute between Canada and the US. Oh, and Fuck You, Dick Cheney.
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
"Sec_Humanist" Abides.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
Where did you get that definition of fascism? Corporatism only figured into fascism relatively late in the developmental game (namely, after it had achieved power). You're ptobably going off that bogus Mussolini quote.
Fascism always, always starts out as right-wing, ultranationalist populism, focused on blood and soil and political will. It morphs from there, and when it obtains power it typically forms alliances with status-quo business-establishment forces.
"Fascism"???? In America???
They say that like its a new thing?
Sheesssh.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
Agreed. I snicker when someone throws out the capitalism card when talking about the U.S.A. I hope I can stop feeling shame for my country pretty soon.
Sheesssh?
Please define.
..I'll probably be banned!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
the Corporate Fascists have looted a country dry. You need something to get back on your feet and get production going again. Something to unite people and distract them from the looters running off to their yachts and secluded estates.
John Dewey
The massive post WWII anti-social propaganda program has worked. The corporate media is a charade to point attention at the shadows but not the substance or sources of our problems: the Oligarchs.
Chomsky - Class war - see links here.
And… …Peak Oil, the future history of homo sapiens simplificatus we should have always known but keep forgetting - see links here.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Rock it Alice!!!
I can't get enough Chomsky, never knew of these.
As if anyone with a brain would look to Beck for serious information. I know some do, but they are probably lost souls anyway.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"We need to be empathetic in our own personal lives"
That would be called selfish you stupid meet puppet. The definition of empethetic requires feeling for people OTHER than yourself. Does this shit for brains know anything about the words that spew out of his muzzel?
Glen, get back on the meds and save us all from your psychosis.
middle-aged conservative talking heads and punditry are immature, but I can't avoid it this time, Glenn really, really, really, I mean really, has a maturity problem, at 45 years of age, IIRC. Sad.
I've never seen change without a fire
..the only real "fascists" are the ones appearing on the "Weasel" News Network.
Glenn Beck, the brave culture warrior who laughs at fascism..."HA! Fascism, I sneer at your impenetrable mysteries! HA!"...Of course, if America was truly on such a path and arrived there in his lifetime, 'religious zealots' unapproved by the state such as himself would be enjoying a lovely train ride to a camp filled with his peers and fellow travellers, bound for a stimulating portion of work experience.
Bangkok Bob, Xoites and YSBadden when you really need them??
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
expect ysb to drop in later! :)
I've never seen change without a fire
YS has to finish up his "Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble" ritual and give his wand a rub-down (whoops!!).
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot . . . fuck you, Dick Cheney.
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
You know by saying that, you can expect a link to the video of the opening scenes of Macbeth from ysb.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I already did that earlier today
But I suspect you already know that.
Why hadn't the Bubble Bubble Toil and Trouble line ever been used by Mr. Bubble commercials?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTUNQlVJZLg&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
And yes, fuck Dick Cheney!
I've never seen change without a fire
Wasn't there a scene in a movie where Harry Potter was practicing with his wand under his bed covers?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Speaking of regulars here, has anyone seen Tyree here recently? I miss his own personal way of expressing his feelings.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
is off hunting down commas, semi-colons and chickenshit right wingers who are going to hear -- whether they like it or not -- a few heartfelt stories about what it really meant to serve time in Korea.
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
need it!
I've never seen change without a fire
...says it all. Finger in his mouth and drooling over the prospect of someone saying we're all headed to fascism or is it socialism or is it tyranny? I may have little sense where all this economic and partisan turmoil is leading us, but, these clowns don't know wtf is going on.
after North Korea renounced the truce keeping the peace between the two Koreas since 1953 a while ago.
North Korea has renounced that truce at least two other times in the last five years.
They're just whining for attention again.
Bush set this country on the path towards fascism, actually he inherited 40 years of gop meddling in government. President Obama is doing a few things to break the cycle but not enough yet. Once Dems get the 60 vote filibuster proof majority I expect Obama to become more Progressive and put us back on the path to rebuild the middle class, and join the civilized world on health care, education, and other places where we rank low.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
"It primarily set out to destroy the labor movement by outlawing unions, forcing workers to submit to state control, while propping up private captains of industry in order to build up a war machine. It also set about to attack international banking systems while freeing national banks."
With the exception of "forcing workers to submit to state control" -
maybe - doesn't that paragraph pretty much describe what the right-wing-nutterie is trying to do?
Let's all thank Glenn and his cohorts for setting us straight!
Don't be too upset with Sowell, folks; Massa told him to say that!
Fascism is corporations telling what the government can do, even forming the government to further their purposes.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Anyone with even a basic knowledge of history knows that there was a symbiotic relationship between corporations and the Nazi party in pre-WWII Germany.
Corporations financed the rise of the Nazi party because they were terrified of a communist takeover. When Hitler took power, companies like IG Farben and Siemens made billions through government contracts for German rearmament.
Idiots like Beck want people to believe that Hitler came to power without corporate support, then proceeded to force businesses to act a certain way. This is garbage. Beck may not know better, but Sowell sure as hell does. Beck is just an idiot, but Sowell is an intellectual fraud.
I understand for the German citizens the Nazi state continued to use the codified law from the 1890's with the only addition being political crimes and punishments, primarily born after the fire at the Reichstag.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Of course one should remember that all it took to be accused of a political crime in Nazi Germany was not being careful with what they said and did from then on, being a producer or performer of any art considered deviate, being a trade unionist or a communist.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Actually, we are very much on the path to fascism. This is the one thing that Beck is right about, and it is frustrating because he comes to the right conclusions for all of the wrong reasons. Mussolini's definition of fascism was the marriage of state and corporate power. that is exactly what we have in this country, and the giveaway of billions of taxpayer dollars to corporations in the last year brings this to the fore. Just because they are doing this insidiously, without rallies and goose-stepping soldiers does not make is any less real. There are plenty on the left that have been warning of this very real danger for quite a while. The Democrats have yet to show me any evidence that they are reversing this trend.
Obama _isn't_ doing anything toward accountability and the rule of law and _is_ supporting FISA, warrantless wiretaps, letting the Bush White House go free, suppressing torture evidence, and seems to be happy with bailing out a tariff-less corporate global economy that will do nothing to bring jobs back.
All-in-all, where it really matters on human rights (ironic for the first black president, eh?) and the rule of law (ironic for a constitutional law professor, eh?), yes -- Obama is Bush lite with a happy face. The only question is: Where were these patriots who are so worried about Obama's fascism when Dubya was getting the ball rolling? Where were they when we wanted Pelosi to hold Dubya accountable to the rule of law? Which I suspect is to say, too bad they're just playing politics and aren't sincere patriots who really would want to hold Obama to his duty to prosecute past crimes and hold himself within the constitution.
Becoming fascist?
We've been a fascist state since the spanish-american war. Once the west was "won" we expanded internationally, fueled by perpetual war, racism, nationalism and corporate domination of foreign natural resouces, all protected by assassination, media control and military occupations.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
Thomas Sowell ... seriously? LMAO!!!!
Has Sowell made a honest, accurate argument ever in the past ten years?
Wouldn't this be a better question --
Has Sowell made an honest, accurate argument ever
in the past ten years?I don't remember him ever being credible.
I think that headline is misleading. It makes it sound like Sowell needed some prodding -- it seemed to me like he jumped at the chance to make the fascist characterization.
As usual these ass wipes have it backwards , the big boys on wall street , corporations and and the lobbyists have been telling government what to do and the politicians follow their orders , that's what's been going on and what is going on . A government for and by the lobbyists and big money .
He looks like somebody's child molesting uncle.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
I think he was pretty much happy to say it on his own... as a Stanford alumnus, it's pretty disappointing to see people like Sowell hawking his pulp under the SU name, however it's par for the course for Hoover Institute fellows.
Is he trying to look like the Gerber baby?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Although we are supposed to be a Democratic Republic Corporations and Government have been merging us into a Capitalist Country where Corporations tell Government what to do.
It's all for one Big Business interests protected by Government and Citizens are forced to support those Corporations with our Tax Monies.
That is why we Spend more than $500 Billion annually of our tax monies to protect and support Business activities in foreign nations.
Ninety percent of our Governments Foreign relations efforts go to support Corporate business interests.
That is Capitalism!
Donaldd
Beck must have loved the Bush administration because NEVER has the US been more of a fascist state than under the Bush crime family's rule.
As for Beck, they have medication like Zyprexia to help but he refuses to take his meds. That kook aid he drinks makes him even more crazy.
I feel a lot of progressives who voted for Obama, on human rights and his antiwar stances, are going to be disappointed. What is Cooks and Lairs going to say? When we are still in Iraq four years from now? When the death toll keeps going up for dead Americans, Iraqis and Afghanis? When the criminal Bush administration is still sipping mint tea in Texas? When we run out of money for their progressive ideas—Opps!! We are already out of money. When the dollar continues to lose value? When a loaf of bread cost 10 dollars or more? It scares me to think that any one party has control of the oval office and congress. People are kidding themselves if they think they have a choice in our present system. The Democratic and Republican parties are two heads feeding the same body-- of corporate/banksters greed, the military industrial complex and the slow steady rise of fascism. We are still losing our civil liberties. I didn’t hear much from Crooks and Lairs on Obama’s new plan for preventive detention—Down the memory hole I guess. I predict that we are going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan for a long time, or worst yet, there will be a new war in the Middle East or somewhere else. If you look at history, most of our bloodiest wars have been under a Democratic leadership (WWI, WW2, Korea and Vietnam), so brace yourselves. Change is coming. by the way of more wars, more Corporatism and lost civil liberties. Right now, that is the only change I can believe in.
Read a history book and chill out.
I find it funny how liberals demonize anyone who refers to the administration as being fascist. I do recall a woman named Naomi Wolf being loved by the left after her book 'The End of America' where she outlines her 10 steps towards Fascism and America's drive down that very road. Does this blog hate her too? Oh right, Bush was President then, and dissent is fine when we're dealing with Republicans..
Obama with a mustache? THAT'S SO HORRIBLE! Ahem..
http://aron2201sperber.files.wordpress.com/20...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-jZgWHWq9EI/Rvj9jQa...
http://blog.vanityfair.com/online/politics/Bu...
Where was the outcry then?
You mention Newspeak, but this seems more like a case of Orwellian Doublethink to me.
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