Bill Moyers talks with an actual socialist for an honest perspective on Obama
We've been hearing a lot from the likes of Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck that President Obama and the Democrats are imposing "socialism" on America.
Which tends to make anyone who knows much about socialism -- beyond, that is, the bumper-sticker political awareness of a 13-year-old -- wonder what the hell they're talking about. It's pretty obvious by now that these are unrepentant capitalists in the Obama Administration -- just not laissez-faire capitalists. Socialism? Please.
Bill Moyers wondered the same thing. So he went out and found an unrepentant socialist -- a Cal-Riverside prof named Mike Davis -- and interviewed him. As Moyers put it in the interview:
Moyers: You know, Mike, there's so much talk from that side of the spectrum raising the specter of Socialism. And I thought I might as well talk to a real Socialist about what the term means. I mean, I cannot find anyone in this country advocating the abolition of private markets and the wage systems or nationalizing all the major industries, I mean, no one's arguing for supplanting capitalism, are they?
Davis: I am.
But Davis, as he makes clear, stands in contradistinction to Barack Obama, as well as to most Democrats. Like most actual socialists, he considers Keynesian economic measures like this administration's to be half-solutions at best.
The real heart of the interview, though, came when they discussed what all this talk about "socialism" is really about:
BILL MOYERS: And yet, Obama's only been in office two months now. And there's this chorus of voices, the "Wall Street Journal" editorial page, conservative talk radio, Fox News, Lou Dobbs, CNBC's Cramer and Kudlow, all blaming Obama for the bad economy. Are those attacks sticking out where you live in California?
MIKE DAVIS: Well, I mean you know, what could be more absurd than the, you know, the people who brought this country to its knees now being the chorus of dissenters, now representing themselves as the populace? The fact that they're the ones who have erected the antenna, the lightning rod for popular anger is worrisome because if these bailouts and stimulus fail, if the country sinks deeper into what could be a very long period of stagnation if popular anger is monopolized by the demagogues on the Right, I think you could see a real resurgence of the Republican Party or at least of its most anti-immigrant economic nationalist wing.
This is something maybe not very visible on the national screen. But when you live near the border like I do in Southern California, the southern cities, areas of the Midwest, this has really invigorated what you once would have refereed to as the John Birch Society wing of the Republican Party. The vacuum left by the fall of the Soviet Union has been filled by, you know, good old-fashioned Nativism immigrant bashing.
No group is so vulnerable right now as the immigrants whose labor has sustained the California economy for the last generation, legal or un-legal. They have the fewest entitlements. They have the least safety net. And their jobs are the ones that are being impacted most directly because they work in construction services or industries that are highly sensitive to the business cycle. Some have gone back to Mexico. Mexican statistics show that. But it doesn't make sense for most people to go back. The border economy has really collapsed. The tourist economy along the border is dead. The maquiladoras, the border assembly plants are laying off. So having made huge investments to get to the United States, doesn't make a lot of sense to go back to a country where there are even fewer jobs and fewer hopes. How are people surviving? Well, in some cases, they cram five into a room. They're standing in front of Home Depots hoping they won't get picked up by the police or the immigration service. And, of course, this exists in a situation where it's very likely that our southern border and that Mexico are going to become very, very destabilized, further destabilized than they are. And this provides lots of ammunition to construct the whole, like, Versailles myth of the economic crisis. You know, to blame immigrants, to blame liberal, to blame the imaginary socialism of bank rescue plans that are fully endorsed by THE ECONOMIST or the FINANCIAL TIMES.
Indeed, all you need to do is compare and contrast Beck's performance in interviewing the head of the Communist Party USA -- whom he treats with open contempt and then talks over when he refuses to play into Beck's little McCarthyite game -- with Moyers' dignified and thoughtful interview.
And then think about just what purpose it served Glenn Beck and his bosses at Fox to trot out Sam Webber just so they could treat him like garbage: Because it sets an example.
How is socialism confused with fascism?
I mean, the line between government and capitalists is not just blurred. It's been erased.
Socialism? Fascism? Capitalism? Communism?
It doesn't matter.
You're screwed.
The rich WILL get richer.
According to that idiotic book Librul Fashism. Seems to me repubs are trying to shift ever more rightward than they already are. I wonder how insanity feels about his hero being called a librul though.
Occasionally, there are revolutions in which many of the rich lose their wealth/lives. Of course, then they are just replaced by a diffent group of rich....
don't watch Moyers.
Hell, most of the people that the people who watch Fox speak to at watercoolers and little league games won't even know Moyer's name.
It's nice to contrast real journalism with Beck and Hannity and others, but Moyers isn't going to mold much popular opinion.
...watch Moyers on PBS with "America's Funniest Home Videos" and the "World Wrestling Federation" on television friday nights.
My nephew who was visiting recently who watches nothing but f'k news and listens only to the pedo pig, dildo, and insanity said Obama was a communist n*er.
Ah the ignorance, and there's plenty of people like him unfortunately.
a socialist! oooooh...I'm ascared.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Yeah, that word "socialist" does scare a lot of people, eh?
I belong to a Canadian social democratic party. My favorite political motto is a quotation from J.S. Woodsworth, who was a Member of Parliament during the 1930s. (One of those, you know, evil Canadian socialists.)
The quotation isn't about smashing the state or killing all the rich people. It's "What we desire for ourselves, we wish for all."
Now, that's not so scary, is it?
IT'S IN YOUR SELFISH INTERESTS to have safety nets in place for people. Why?
You don't have to worry so much about you or your family being mugged or robbed.
You don't have to step over homeless people in the street or feel the guilt of people begging you for money.
You don't have to worry about insane people wandering the streets and attacking your family.
I've noticed many benefits, living in a country with good social programs. The taxes are higher, but it's worth it for a better quality of life.
As a Canadian, I can't imagine any other way. If my society did not take care of the poorest and the most needy then it's not a society worth saving.
Period.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Repeal Capitalism.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
And replace it with an "ism" we already know about or do you have another alternative?
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
I'm of the persuasion that neither Capitalism nor Socialism are the best solution. We need another option, but what that option is I do not know.
It's time for a debate on economic change. Fundamental change is needed to end corporate crime and exploitation. The transfer of wealth from 99% of us to the top 1% must stop. Reagan's effect on this country and the inequality it created must be exterminated. We need change Obama, you promised change. The thugs that brought us here are down and out, they are losing. It's time to deliver on your promise of change.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Tough keeping up with this zero attention span stuff.
mental musical chairs on hyper speed.
responding to yourself?
quite a lot - maybe a music therapist is needed??
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
because they are afraid they'll end up working for the Huff Post screening comments all day like Winston Smith.
Huff post has been bought off by Israeli investors. You will only hear the Zionist allowed comments from now. No "crazies" talking about how Bush lied or Impeachment or Treason. Which is exactly where these conversations need to be.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Here it does.
Not at the voting booth.
Not without getting rid of the Electoral College.
Without getting rid of the Electoral College, your presidential vote doesn't count except in Ohio and maybe a few other states.
who wrote Ecology of Fear? Brilliant book. Wrote another, I can't recall the title exactly, City of Glass, something like that; almost as brilliant as the first.
Yup! The book you're thinking of is City of Quartz.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/mar2009/tox...
of brutal inhumanity and we haven’t learned anything.
we have learned the odd thing or two in the last seven thousand years. Having given your statement the full seconds of consideration it deserves I am forced to ask: wtf did you mean by it?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
I think Evet is trying to say, in the nicest possible way , of course, that we are all idiots and only s/he is possessed of the knowledge that will set us free. Oh, the Humanity!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
pretty much what I suspected but I thought I'd give him the opportunity to clarify his statement. Apparently that seemed too much like work.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
You can have that knowledge for only $19.95, but for a special time only you'll receive Evet's Perspicacity for just $9.95.
*And yes, using words like perspicacity automatically means that I'm either extremely pretentious or have actually taken the time to read an entire thesaurus.
If we had an actual media that did it's job, they would do a piece like this so that Americans would understand what socialism actually is.
It would be Bill Moyers. Remember, this is a man who was Lyndon Johnson's press secretary, so he represents what mainstream America used to be. Today, he's considered the "liberal" devil incarnate.
The prior comment is entirely correct: IF Americans were educated as to what socialism is, America would be better for it. Unfortunately, most Americans aren't exposed to simple U.S. history. If they read Zinn's "People's History of the U.S.," they'd understand WHY the labor movement came about and its importance in raising the quality of life for most Americans.
They'd understand what happens when wealthy powers go unchecked: economies tremble at their mercy, kids work in sweatshops, people die in inhumane work conditions. In the late 1800s, companies would send out private security to kill you if you tried to strike.
Look abroad. Most countries have a strong labor party. I can vouch that in Australia, Unions are strong, the minimum wage is over $14 and Australia's Labor Party dominates the country.
today, the US has become the country of tyranny that our forefathers fought against a long time ago.
It's Revolting I tells ya
This is the 1930s in Germany. It only takes a little bit more to close off us and keep us all quietly whispering for fear that the 1984 world is already here.
No Jews, but Arabs and Mexicans will be stoked by the 15 minutes of hate so we all fear and understand what is "different" and what to "fear".
Just scream at the Telescreen and do what you are told.
Those that think differently from the party will be taken away like Winston.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Here's the thing that bugs me...Beck et. al. are trying to equate Socialism to Communism or Leninism. Dumbass doesn't even understand that there's a fraking world of difference between Socialism and Communism. And, not every Communist nation acts the same way just like not every Capitalist nation acts the same way, look at the differences between Sweden and the US.
I applaud Moyers for at least allowing a Socialist to speak and tell his perspective. It's a damn disservice that our educators and media don't even discuss and teach one of the major economic and social systems to where people can distinctly say what Socialism is and isn't.
If we could have Socialism and Democracy side by side as with Scandinavia, would that be a bad thing? Methinks not.
The Post Office, The Public Library, Public Education, Social Security, Medicare.
All these programs are socialist programs. What the corporate elite and the right wing like to call "big government." Why do you reckon the hate these programs and want them gone?
We live in a Social Democracy, just one whose balance is frighteningly out of whack, where social programs are being starved, marginalized, even demonized because they aren't profitable.
who wrote City of Quartz.
It's a powerful, insightful and even prescient book about the history and future of Los Angeles. It covers a lot of issues like resource allotment and scarcity, racial and ethnic relations, gated communities, etc, that in many ways actually apply to America as a whole.
And Davis basically predicted the Rodney King riots that occurred just a couple of years after City of Quartz was published.
He's a very bright fellow.
Obama's No Socialist. I Should Know.
More at link.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
I find it revealing that the media now considers Keynesian economics (essentially, macroeconomics) to be Socialism. Talk about a false equivalence. If this is the touchstone (Keynesian economics equals Socialism) for the economic debate, then we really are in dire straits.
Thanks for posting this, John. Both Moyers and Davis didn't follow the point more deeply as to why Democrats are afraid to discuss how economic power influences political decisions. They merely stop with their being beneficiaries of the system. Belle's excellent post of a true journalist investigating campaign fund raising provides more of an answer, especially since he got a quote from a Dem Congressman hoping for public financing of campaigns. Great posts today!
baby jesus is a Socialist, possibly one of the first?
baby jesus really likes the concept Socioeconomic Democracy
love baby jesus?
Never miss the show. Bill Moyers, a journalistic GOD, never fails to have on the most enlightening people. Davis sounds more like my dad, who was a member of the UEW, and a stuanch Democrat.
I will be buying all of his books.....one amazing American there.
The US is just fucked, judging just by the uncomprehending comments here, where people know almost nothing about socialism but believe that it has "failed". Such ignorance evidently prevented a lot of commenters from having any idea what Mike Davis, one of the greatest historians alive today, was talking about.
Sheesh ...
were centrist where I grew up.
This country has moved to the right of Atilla since
Davis made a really good point about the current economic stimulus effort, which I think is worth passing around.
When FDR dumped a whackload of money into the economy in the 1930's, people used it to buy stuff, which created or preserved manufacturing jobs in the US.
Today, a lot of the stimulus money is going to be spent at Wal*Mart. According to Davis, this means that 40-45% of the stimulus money is going to be stimulating China's economy, not the US one.
Too true...I received this forwarded email from one of my nice Christian relatives today.
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