To some evangelicals, Obama will never be a real Christian
By David Neiwert Wednesday Jan 14, 2009 2:15pm
The fine upstanding folks at the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission have announced their Top Ten Instances of Christian Bashing in America. It's highly amusing, of course (Jack Black and you Prop 8 backers, I think you can count on going to hell), but this one caught my eye:
INSTANCE #3: Barack Obama Defames Christianity
According to research into President Elect Obama's own statements about faith, and an examination of Obama's position on moral issues, CADC has determined that by any biblical and historic Christian standard, Barack Obama is not a Christian, although he claims he is a "devout Christian."
First, I'm a bit confused: How exactly did Obama "defame" Christianity by claiming to be a Christian? This is Christian-bashing exactly how?
But then there's the matter of what Obama's writings and statements actually are pertaining to his faith:
Barack Obama was not raised in a religious household. Like his mother, he said he "grew up with a healthy skepticism of organized religion." His father was born Muslim but became an atheist as an adult. His mother's family members were "non-practicing" Baptists and Methodists. It was after college that he encountered a "spiritual dilemma." He realized something was missing in his life and he felt drawn to be in church.
Obama said he had begun to sense God beckoning him to submit to His will and dedicate himself to discovering truth. So one day he walked down the aisle at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and affirmed his Christian faith. During a "Call to Renewal" Keynote Address in June 2006, he refers to himself as a progressive Christian. And in this New York Times article, Senator Obama's denomination, the United Church of Christ, is described as "a mostly white denomination known for the independence of its congregations and its willingness to experiment with traditional Protestant theology."
Barack Obama's Expressions of Faith:
Barack Obama said that his faith "plays every role" in his life. "It's what keeps me grounded. It's what keeps my eyes set on the greatest of heights." In the "Call to Renewal" Keynote Address he also said, "Faith doesn't mean that you don't have doubts. You need to come to church in the first place precisely because you are first of this world, not apart from it. You need to embrace Christ precisely because you have sins to wash away - because you are human and need an ally in this difficult journey."
However, I think I began to get a picture of why Obama might not be a "real Christian" for these folks when I took a look at what he has on his website [pdf file]:
Faith should not be used as a wedge to divide.
“We think of faith as a source of comfort and understanding but find our expressions of faith sowing division; we believe ourselves to be a tolerant people even as racial, religious, and cultural tensions roil the landscape. And instead of resolving these tensions or mediating these conflicts, our politics fans them, exploits them, and drives us further apart.” – The Audacity of Hope.
“Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America – there's the United States of America. There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America – there's the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.” – Democratic National Convention Keynote Address.
The separation of church and state is critical and has caused our democracy and religious practices to thrive.
“[Conservative leaders] need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland ... It was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religion, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith…” – Call to Renewal Keynote Address
We are a nation of many faiths and of those with no faith at all. The religious practices of all must be respected.
“Given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.” - Call to Renewal Keynote Address
For the hardcore evangelical crowd -- who practice a pinched, narrow, picayune, highly judgmental kind of Christianity -- these kinds of sentiments are indeed blasphemy, even though they're perfectly in keeping with what Jesus of Nazareth preached. Indeed, I know many very serious Christians -- priests, pastors, and theologians among them -- who hold similar if not identical views.
And I've known many evangelicals who consider all such people (myself included) not to be "real Christians." But I'm content knowing that God, and not they, will be the final arbiter of that.
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After supporting The Executioner, The Decider who decided some abortions are OK and got his kicks on the death road called "Route Iraq", you might reconsider whether The Rapture will shine on you. On a trivial point, Jesus wasn't a Christian.
Jesus wasn't white either, and to be a real christian, you must be white, or god will send you to hell, along with
1)The jews (they killed Jesus)
2)Muslims (All Terrorists)
3)Black People (for no good reason)
4)Hindus (They don't believe in Jebus)
5)Anyone who doesn't vote republican
6)Anyone who believes in evolution
7)anyone who believes in Womens' Rights
8) anyone who doesn't hate the 'gay'.
9) let's just say it: anyone who is not white and male.
When he denounced Rev. Wright for speaking the truth...as, I might add, I truly believe Jesus himself would have done.
Of course, had Obama stood up for the man who married he and Michelle and baptized their daughters, Hillary/Bill would probably now be Co/POTUS and Obama would still be the Senator from Illinois and Burris would just be home right about now just chatting it up with his wife about....whatever.
Obama, as a "Christian" is nothing more than an opportunistic Judas. Plain and simple.
As the apologist for Israel that he is, especially with his silence as related to the wholesale slaughter of innocent Gaza women and children, he should be ashamed of himself as a human being.
Goodnight.
May the Lord bless your heart, look likes you need him. May he lives and dwelt in your spirit and may he guide you to be a better person.
Honestly....who gives a rat's ass what these nutcakes think?? This is the fringe element of bor's crusade. Screw them all!! They have no voice, they have no power. They are LOSERS...each and everyone of them.
Go to HELL, gelicals!
It's not like evangelicals are real Christian's either. You don't preach Jesus's salvation and forgiveness on one hand and rabidly defend war and death in the other.
these religious zealots are so gosh darn loud about politics, tax the hell out of them.
On roads NOT paid for by the church!
Hopefully they will all end up in hell with their fairytale Jesus.
http://www.jesuswelfare.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ftc-u5x3ZU
Awesome! David Cross nails it as the wonderfully lazy kid! thanks for the link
these people who pass judgement are experiencing sour grapes. they're pissed that Obama is a recognized christian. he was able to approach the conservative evangelical community and connect with some of them. this shocked the (R) conservative evangelical club. this is the start of trying to find fault and DIVIDE. the way they like it.
Gonna "surge" into Afghanistan and kills us some more of those evil terrists. George Bush Part 2.
in the works before he even got elected taliban in control of two thirds of the country. afghanistan and really pakistan very unstable.
It isn't the Taliban. It's regional Warlords, made rich from drugs, and all of whom are financially and militarily supported by NATO.
There are some fundamentalists who don't consider me a "real" Christian because I wear my hair short and I dress in jeans or slacks most of the time. Too bad.
"Converting" or being "born again" obviously doesn't matter. You're going to hell no matter what.
wow i see steve jobs is stepping down. watch apple stock
I just hope we'll all survive it.
Gold - pure gold! teh gays have made it to #1 on the list (you know full well the folks who put the list together could not tell a "radical homosexual" from a "non-radical homosexual").
I have membership cards for all of you who read that list, find your true self, come out of the closet and want to live your life as the Creator (whatever your name for that is) created you.
I'm just 15 short of that new toaster oven! C'mon, what'dya say ? ;-)
Ahhh the sweet smell of Libel.
his real birth certificate is hidden because "Christian" was written in in pencil and not date stamped.
Hmmmm... what does the bible say about self-deluded assholes who judge everyone?
for loaves and fishes dinner after he finishes with Amato & Co.
Assuming, of course the DFH's don't trash the place.
...if the progressive's idea of Christianity is right, and the Evangelicals are wrong, no big deal, Evangelicals will be forgiven. It's what Christ would do.
But if Evangelicals are right & progressive Christians are wrong, the progs are going to Hell. Because...it's what...Christ...would DO?
That's not the issue.
It's money.
Religion is a distraction.
Follow the money.
The largely unobserved fact about the various religions, is that they are no different than politics. But their claim to a higher power cynically masks what is really happening, and people without critical thinking skills accept the deception. Remember the scene in the Time Machine when the siren sounds? That's America going to church on sundays.
At the top of the heap in all of them - you will always find the "man behind the curtain" running the show, pulling the strings, manipulating his puppets. Religion, like politics, is completely and only about three things - Money, Power, and especially - Control.
I do know that there are good people with real faith who are basically exploited by this system. Their religious beliefs are deep and sincere and their faith is a comfort to them. I have family and friends who fall into this category.
I also know that religion CAN be a powerful force for good in the world - one tiny example - (a personal hero of mine) - Jimmy Carter.
But overwhelmingly these people are simply victims of those at the power levels of their own faiths.
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And I've known many evangelicals who consider all such people (myself included) not to be "real Christians." But I'm content knowing that God, and not they, will be the final arbiter of that.
today's so called evangelical
christiansmoronsare the very people who would persecute jesus and deny that he
has come back. they would call him unchristian.
i am agnostic and still avoid anyone who calls themself
christian, because they have been the most caustic influence
to promote hate, racism and ignorance i have ever encountered
in the USA.
is a "real Christian"?
II Corp, III Corp, or IV Corp.
Time, date, unit, and place?
Thanks.
I'll be thrilled when Jebus returns, and announces that all this time his "chosen people" turn out to be us homos. Just the look on all those right wing Jebus lickers will be priceless.
Who really gives a shit what these religious cretins think? So now there's a sliding scale of degrees of christianity? Kind of like picking and choosing from a Chinese food menu.
Thank God for atheism!
When will we give up imagining that the idiot, or that which makes money on an idiot, will ever give up their notions of reality, and what might lie beyond? When will we realize it is a sickness and start intervening for these pathetic folks? Texas is about to install a creationist as their head of schools. Go figure? Their children will not be allowed to graduate, or to go to college. They appear to "want" this to happen. We have seen it happen in other states, seen it prevented too.
If we continue to allow the sort of criminals that take advantage of the weak minded to go on with their great mission, it is our fault the world becomes more ignorant that we are today. Stupidity is their goal. What else causes someone to believe lies and pay for the privilege?
Did anyone think another below 100 IQ president would be coming in after Reagan? It is just absurd to think the people have become so ignorant, so I have to assume that stupidity has to be measured into the equation.
I look for a time when Religion is removed entirely from politics.
/Church vs State.
//Obama is too religious for my tastes, anyway.
///Dubya claimed to be a man of faith and look how that worked out.
..look for a time when Religion is Removed E-n-t-i-r-e-l-y!
Who needs the Comedy Channel when we have these righteous fu*ks?
Just wait until Obama is sworn in and he makes us all become Muslims and we have to marry gay people and have a baby a year until we die. Boy, are they gonna be pissed then.
But in order to have babies, we must marry a gay person of the opposite sex and have sex with them.
So does that make me gay or her straight? I have to know: my salvation depends on it!
is a good thing. One out of three is Hall of Fame in baseball.
they get off HATING people that aren't like them....justifies the means for some. they should/need to go see the movie "Doubt"......very good.
movies are tools of the devil.
Actually back in the '30's small towns in England tried to prevent movie theatres being built for just that reason.
For a whole bunch of people religion is an excuse for doing whatever they please. They just do it in the name of god and no one is supposed to question anything.
Do not see how you can be a republican and a christian!
They are totally oppisite things.
republicans hate everyone, are selfish and greedy, don't care about their fellow man, everything that jesus was supposed to be about republicans are not.
Someone tell me how you can be republican and still claim to be a christian how?
You cannot. Rabbi Yeshua suggested a 50% tax on the wealthy to support the poor and condemned the rich to eternal damnation (several different times in fact). He also stated explicitly that "as you have treated the least among you, so have you treated me."
Sociopaths literally do not have the same understanding of the world around them as those who are not sociopathic. It's a real mental disorder, and they cannot be redeemed. We're stuck with them and we need to understand what they are in order to protect ourselves. And I'm NOT kidding.
Know your Enemy.
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Being a recovering catholic (actually I got cured a long fucking time ago) I know that you can be a complete dick/sinner and all you have to do is go to confession every week or two and get absolved, but what these fuck sticks ignore is the last thing the preist on the other side of the confessional booth says....Go forth and sin no more. Just like they pick and chose what parts of the bible to heed. Bonus point: Religion relieves one of the responsibility of thinking for ones self or critical thinking what so ever.
He is acting to avoid attacks from the right.
The real question is, how will he serve the country?
I give him 4 years.
Because he's first and foremost a politician.
These bigoted, hating, intolerable evangelicals are proving to be the Non-Christians.
Here ya go, people at Christian Anti-Defamation whatever:
Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." So the folks at CAD better watch their own Ps and Qs.
Having grown up among our Talibangeilcals in Oklahoma in the 50s and 60s (and obviously having no great love for the breed), I am only surprised that they did not declare him the anti-Christ for statements like those. The Talibangelicals are not Christians, as they oppose just about everything the Rabbi Yeshua al Nazarat taught. They are rather Paulists or disciples of St. John the Delusional.
Before the election, at least one group was calling Obama the anti-Christ.
"Talibangelicals?!" I love that term!
They like their Christians more in the style of Sarah Palin, Joe the fake Plumber, George Bush the killer, etc. Pat Robertson the assassin. etc. What they think or want is irrelevant and opposite to our cause. They are enemies in my opinion. Most of them.
onward christian soldiers
I can honestly say that those who are cynical of Obama's faith would not meet my personal criteria for "real christians."
And with a background in the catholic faith, including catholic schooling -- I have a good idea what real christianity looks like. Actually - Jimmy Carter just about embodies the concept by himself.
So - to the pompous well-fed, fat judgmental assholes that sit in their fancy warm houses, raking in the money like they're the dealer at a blackjack table -- I say - when you can emulate the good example of that remarkable christian, Jimmy Carter - you will show yourself to be one as well.
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A rather Dickensian description.
Except for the asshole part.
But then xians are assholier than thou.
What do these right wing nut cases need for Obama to do to become a "real" christian?
-- I guess he could start molesting children like the priests do
-- I guess he could find some hooker to bed like those evangelical preachers do
-- Maybe if he found a gay lover that would work instead.
I find it quite ironic how on one hand these people preach love.... but on the other hand, if you dont believe everything that I do then you cant be in our club. Christianity is full of hypocrites.
ewww religion, god, faith...it's all nonsense. Gods do not exist. Get over it already. Esssh.
Obama's not a Christian?
I will respond to this question the same way I respond to accusations that Obama is a socialist:
"I wish!!!"
This reminds me of an old Emo Phillips joke:
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
Beelzebud.....funny as hell. that's the deal your not like me........i hate you. i'm sick of it. i ignore them.
That's funny!!! :)
...except, as we are all aware, that's the way it is. If anyone truly believed in Jesus and the teachings ascribed to him, we wouldn't be in the predicaments in which we find ourselves. Follow the money & power.
after being frustrated for years by his flocks.
Nobody wanted to help the poor, nobody wanted to open the church building to a small group of homeless people.
He said that they wanted to come in once a week, hear happy talk, condemn others and be forgiven.
He went back to social work.
allowed people of color into his Ten Commandments Theme park anyway.
Good thing he returned to less ambitious work.
He wanted to open up the church to the neighborhood people (mostly black) instead of serving only people that fled to the suburbs(mostly white).
..and maybe it never was.
I just hope he doesn't think God is telling him what to do deep in his guts.
That would be a bad thing.
Maybe these folks might need to read what Obama did as a community organizer. And by the way, wonder what positive things they have done for their community lately.
...but I thought that any list of the "Top 10 instances of Christian Bashing in America, 2008" would have included the Right's treatment of Obama and the lies about his faith.
Guess I was way off.
Don't pick some dumbfuck.
Pick someone who is really smart, who knows how to manipulate you.
Religious zealots contribute nothing but division and hatred to our society- These mentally unhinged people need to be marginalised.
The Christian freaks can't accept Obama? He should openly REJECT them.
Luckily some athiests, like Christopher Hitchens are starting to challenge the Christian zealots- I hope other athiests and secularists also stand up and push back the tide of religious zealotry.
I hope other athiests in the media follow Hitchens's example.
I am sick of the christian loony fringe.
Secularists and Secularism sounds too much like a cult. And as everyone knows cults have the worst Pot Lucks because they always have everyone bring brown rice with broccoli casseroles.
Unitarian Universalists. Lots of lentils too.
At the end of U.U. potlucks, a brownish-green cloud can be seen misting about the tables, and it isn't the holey spirit...
to some of us Christians, evangelicals are not real Christians.
Evangelicals, especially the Southern right wing ones, are against everything Jesus stood for
as far as I know, Jesus was a socialist who wanted help the sick, the poor and fought for equal rights and fought against greed if think about it.
Since when is being a "real Christian" anything at all to be proud of? Ashamed? Now we're talking...
Just one simple two word statement to thoes say they know anything about what god thinks or said to them: PROVE IT.
It's in the BuyBull!
Just to show that there are other ways of dealing with the issue.
and pass the ammo!
and praise the ammo! Fixed it for you.
To me, fakes who claim to be religious are the ones who spout the words of the bible, then thumb their noses at the poor, the weak and the helpless. Politics and religion do not mix.
P.S. The Prop 8 Musical was hilarious!
So the Inquisition is back and in high gear once again? Geez, who knew?? Religionist intolerance burbles just below the thin veneer of civilized behavior. Amazing.
Religion is crap, it has never done anything good for our planet and even God would agree that it is a useless way of our world. Truly teach love and compassion and stop the nonsense of Religion.
means that you can describe the infinite source of the universe with the breadth of knowledge from iron age shamans.
the male religious leaders wear such pretty dresses...and sharp lookin' hats!
http://images.myspace.drewpydraws.com/8948~I-...
To those evangelicals who are wasting their time and breath judging Obama and others on whether they are Christians or not...read the Bible. Chances are you will be judged for your attempts to judge. You should know that Christianity is a PERSONAL relationship between the individual and Jesus Christ....not James Dobson or his hypocritical sheep!
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/index.htm
the KKKlan claims to be christians.
American christians as a whole are the dumbest race on the planet. American christianity is actually THEATER. I have had the unfortunate experience of working on several churches, as I am in the construction business. These churches vary in denominations from Baptist to methodist, to pentacostal and beyond. (dont tell me YOUR church is different, it isnt if it is a protestant evangelical church, or roman catholic, you will just be lying in public)
These churches are not worried about people, they are worried about bigger buidlings and new sound systems. While working on more than on church I have been in earshot of the discussions of the so called elders of the church taking money that was supposedly set aside for helping people ( which I dont believe for a second) and use ALL OF IT to further the construction. They do not even attempt to hide it. But then again I am not a member who will tell the other people who donate the money. If you are too dumb to figure a budget, you shouldnt steal from the poor.
I believe they simply put a name on an amount of money which they never intend to use as such. For instance , MISSIONS ACCOUNT. when in reality their missions are non existant. When I ask what missions they have carried out they stumble and bumble over their own tongue trying to make excuses for why NO MISSIONS are carried out. Its worse than watching Sarah Palin trying to answer which newspaper she reads. FAKES ALL AROUND. Show me a person who acts like Christ, and I will show you a Hindu.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi
THATS the truth there Ghandi.
If you disagree with this then you are more than likely a christian. Dont bother replying to me because I have already assessed you belong to the DUMBEST race on the planet. And for those of you who dont know the definition of the word race. LOOK IT UP in a dictionary before you reveal your stupidity by saying they arent a race.
Sammy Davis was Jewish.
Although I'm sympathetic to your main point, the concept of race is dead. After Crick and Watson, it is abundantly clear that the superficial differentiating characteristics (skin color, hair, eyes, stature) between and among primates are due to approx. 1% of our species DNA. I think that the word that you are looking for is "collective" or "group". You can add the descriptor "pre-scientific" to either one if you'd like.
RACE: any group, class, or kind, esp. of persons
Journalists are an interesting race. example
I warned you not to reveal your stupidity. You MUST be a christian. Race is NOT synonymous with ethnicity.
anti-intellectuals are everywhere!
Journalists are a race?
oh, ok.
Open a dictionary, or better yet look at an online dictionary. Race is a group , especially persons. It is NOT synonymous with ethnicity. Are the words too big for you?
You don't have to get shitty. I was merely asking a question.
It would appear all you're interested in is a fight.
You'll have to look else where. I'm not interested in matching wits with you.
It's just I've never heard anyone try to categorize journalists as a race.
That's a first for me .
But hey, have at it. You'll keep yourself good company.
So I suppose you would fit in the asshole race then.
You warned me?? Jeez, I guess I better retroactively decline my Ph.D. (Toronto) just because you called me stupid. Thanks for that. I needed a reality check. Ya got time for a coffee next week?
Jesus and the Interpreter. A modern-day christian helps Jesus get started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLOUWl-L-s
http://users.ucom.net/~vegan/Prayer%20to%20Is...
The way these extreme people behave and try to push their beliefs onto others is far from being a Christian act. They're mean, nasty, and take pride in being judgmental. Isn't it written someplace that your relationship with God is just between you and He (or She)? These people need to worry about themselves, as they're the ones who need "saving" after treating people so shamelessly.
Jesus came for the LOST. Yet Christians are of the mindset, if you dont look like me and act like me then you aren't worth the time.
So from an analytical standpoint, if I want to be a christian, I must first clean myself up and make myself righteous THEN Jesus will save me?
The only righteousness I see american christians display is self righteousness. I always use the term american christians because I think in other parts of the world, it MIGHT be different, I sure hope so anyway.
Currently reading "2000 Years of Disbelief: Famous People With the Courage to Doubt" by James A. Haught. Excellent read with many, many great quotes.
Amazing how many of our founding fathers weren't Christian and how many great people since were also non-believers. Not hard to imagine when you see how funamentalist true-believers cling to their anti-intellectual beliefs and attack anyone who's not part of their cult.
You nailed it right there. In the bible it tells people who believe to reason with God in order to come to the truth. American christians have no reasoning power, if they did they would realise what they are doing is the opposite of what Jesus said to do.
I do not disagree with what Jesus taught, be kind, help the widows and orphans, deny self righteousness and do unto others as you want them to do to you. To me these are all Good qualities. But one must have a TEENIE TINY bit of intellect to be able to look at themselves to see if they are adhering to these.
The anti-intellectual mindset of christians doom themselves to never address this. As I stated in my previous post I work in the construction field and have worked on many churches. By the way the ONLY people who owe me money, are christians.
You're forgetting, the average xian does not follow the teachings of Jesus, instead they worship Jesus.
Miracle births and resurrections belonging to solar cults is their main thrust.
In fact, the entire New Testament seems to be written on the Greek dramaturgical model of the Dionysian school: Agon, Pathos, Threnos, Anagnoreses, and Apotheosis.
X-tians are clowns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=act6JIFZG-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWAfiYyypeM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqpZITYexNQ
That first one is fantastic, as Kate is. The other two, I'll have to check back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=act6JIFZG-M
These extremist Christians are such a small group that they should not be significant to politicians. Obama (and others Democrats) do not need this vote and should not acknowledge them let alone cater to them. Doing so alienates larger groups of voters that they do need. Let the Republicans cater to the extremist whack jobs and continue to lose.
That said, who the hell is this group to declare that Obama or anyone is or isn't a Christian. It's beyond arrogance. They probably believe that members of the mainstream Churches like Roman Catholics and the Orthodox are not Christian either. I'm all for real Christianity and if everyone acted like a real Christian, what a wonderful world this would be. Alas, some people who profess to be Christian have a very hard time actually following the teaching of Christ. That is probably true for most religions.
What you call minority is actually the majority. I am owed money by an Orthodox Christian for work done, this man even went as far as manufacturing a fake receipt to show his friends.
THATS the whack job right there.
I am owed money by roman catholics and protestants, but at least these didnt create a fake receipt, like that makes stealing any better.
Keep walking around with your eyes wide shut and you will see what you imagine to be true.
By the way the MAJORITY is why I will NEVER help a proffessing christian ever again. If you are a REAL christian SHUT THE HELL UP and let your ACTIONS do the talking.
As Saint Francis wrote, Preach the Gospel and if neccessary use words.
One thing christians HATE is non-christians knowing the scripture and the church history better than they do.
When St Francis was a kid did the other kids jeer, "Francis is Asissi... Francis is Asissi...?"
about Jesus' statement (the mythical one as opposed to the one for which there is no evidence that he existed) that no one can get to heaven except "through him"? That is, Jesus was an elitist and an excluder. He was in effect saying that one could not enter heaven unless the believer who acknowledges that there is only one true religion, the religion of Christ. Doesn't sound too loving, caring and Lamb-of-God-like to me? Of course, the Gnostics, the true deluded religionists, were closer to something less exclusionary when they declared God to be in each individual's soul/heart/whatever until the Nicene Creed power grab in the 3rd or 4th century C.E. Geez, it's hard to keep all those fairy tales straight!!
In actuality Jesus condemned the religous leaders of the day, excluding them. While at the same time telling the prostitute her sins were forgiven.
The prostitute wasn't religous at all. Don't confuse what Jesus actually taught for what christians teach, they are polar opposites. I was going to become a christian once but the hatred from the believers and religous leaders, talked me out of it.
The hatred and hypocrisy.
Yes and the hypocrisy.
I'm not sure which "prostitute" you're referring to, but he supposedly forgave an adulteress, by telling those who were about to stone her, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
None were ready to make that admission, and so she was spared.
I wonder how many would today?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNeq2Utm0nU
Additionally, the funny thing is, of all there, according to common theology, Jesus was the only one who was sinless and could've stoned her himself.
So does that prove he's not sinless, or that he was against the death penalty?
Jesus needed the death penalty to fufil his purpose.
I make no distinction between an adulteress and a prostitute. You say adulteress, I say prostitute. Neither can keep their legs shut.
Hmmm...sounds like your social life is less active than mine.
The whole prostitute thing has been problematic since Josephus. He spoke of a temple hierodule (sacred prostitute) named Miriam who had a son who gathered followers. The Protoevangelium had Mary threading cord when when the Annunciation came, in the same three colors of the Hindu Fate gayunas. This was also a common practice of hierodules. For the longest time people taught that the other Mary, who followed Jesus and the apostles was a reformed prostitute. But in actuality she seemed to be one of the leaders of the movement. Jesus was recorded in the scriptures teaching her with the phrase Dearly Beloved, like Buddha to a favored disciple. Later theologians may've tried to downplay that relationship.
Mary wasn't a prostitute until the church of Rome took over as the center of the church.
And I am married, so you are right, no social life, HAHAHA
That's the common consensus, however I don't believe the Vulgate Bible of St Jerome ever refers to her as such. That was the Bible the Catholics use, although I'm not sure of today. There was a later one in response to the Protestant Bible of Tinsdale, that I believe was called the Daur Bible(?). That seems to be the scuttlebutt of the day. She did behave in some ways like we would call a "camp follower."
The RCC doesnt go by whats written. This is what caused the split in 1099 from the orthodox church. The pope is not infailable.
When I ask Roman Catholics if Mary was a prostitute, almost all of them say yes, some say they don't know.
On the other hand when asking orthodox belivers if she was a prostitute, none I have talked to say yes.
To me this is the truth of whats taught.
Actually the Great Schism was 1054. 1066 was when England was conquered by William the Conqueror and forced to convert from their Church of England to the Norman's Roman Catholic.
The split was caused by the Roman Church's claim to authority world-wide, although they weren't one of the earliest churches. There are records of English Bishops (probably of mission churches) in 3rd century church councils. Additionally, there were differences in the RC being Paulian, and the Orthodox being I believe, St. Andrew. There were also calendar differences. The RC adopted the Dies Natalis Solis Invictus date for their Christmas, and the Orthodox the birthdate of the Aeon (Epiphany, 12th Night.)
Interestingly, the Russian branch of the Eastern Orthodox church had a "Reformation" of their own in the 17th century. The state church adjusted back to fit the Greek calendar and rite methods, while another group called the Old Believers splintered off.
So these are other examples of how Christians accuse other Christians of not being Christians. And I should know, I was raised a Mormon, but have been a Witch for some decades, and a reverend in the Church of the Sub-Genius.
Praise Bob!!!
I didnt mention a date for that, just as an example of not following whats written.
And yes the split was in 1054, my mistake,
The Catholics during the Reformation came up with the Douay Rheims Bible.
William Tyndale did translate the bible. I am not sure if he called mary a prostitute or not but I will check. Maybe thats where the rumor snuck into the teachings.
I think it was before. Tyndale only was the second to translate the Bible into English, the first was Wyngate (?). German versions were already preceding them, and were less controversial.
The RCC's teachings are based both on their versions of the Bible and what they call their Magisterium.
I forgot to mention earlier. The Infallibility of the Pope did not become an official doctrine until after the Reformation, to counter the Protestants Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura approach, although I'm sure it was there unofficially.
I have to go to bed now, because I have to get up at 4:45 a.m. every day, and I'm behind in my drinking.
I didnt mention a date for that, just as an example of not following whats written.
"Jesus needed the death penalty to fufil his purpose."
That's going back to the solar god schema, when scripturally, it seems his purpose was to teach, which his followers choose to ignore.
There's been some comparison of the Jesus Church to the Egyptian God Horus, but I'm not sure how much I agree, but there does seem to be a cult of Cybele and her lover Attis in Jerusalem, referred to I believe in Joshua, which xianity seems to be a Jewish version of before they heavy layer of Greco-Roman religion was put upon it by Saul/Paul.
Now I'm off.
No surprise.
It's time to watch a chapter each of Jungle Girl, and The Green Hornet Strikes Again with Warren Hull.
So now they define Christian, as "REAL CHRISTIAN". They keep defining meanings and words to their benefit.
Now we will have another war. The war against the right wing Nut case evangicals.
Your description is redundant.
Right Wing
Nut Case
Evangelical
All have the same meaning.
sure obummer will be accepted by the real christians just as soon as he takes over the killing fields of afganistan ! murder and persicutions a thing to be desired by the good church folks, onward christian soldiers and all that shit!
{Deleted, Flamebaiting and Off Topic. SiteMonitor}
Actually it's been shown that lemmings blindly following into leaping over a cliff is only an old legend with no real basis.
LOL
I had a couple of drinks while reading my book of Batman daily comic strips from 1943-1946, and my memory jarred loose.
It wasn't Wyngate that translated the Bible into English before William Tyndale but John Wyclif. I try to remember him because he was burned at the stake for the blasphemy of translating the Bible into the vernacular. Because of his popularity they tried to strangle him before setting him afire, but he had a thick neck, so after they lit the fires, he revived and died screaming.
Yes Wycliff translated the bible before standard spelling was even adopted. Father was spelled Fader, and many other words are not spelled as they are spelled today.
Hello Mudder
Hello Fader
Greetings from
Camp Higherwadder
Send a Lifeboat
I am drowning
Love Sonny
From Camp Open Sewer.
that you were falling behind in your drinking. Are you catching up a bit now? :)
Although I use a lot, I don't drink ketchup.
And I'm trying to lose weight.
Obama isn't required to be a real Christian. He's required only to obey the laws of the US, something many of you do not give two shits about. This is why smart people voted for him.
The right wing Evangelicals which are running their mouths and throwing their comments around , do not seem to know what Christianity is all about...
Or is it that they are trying to build their congregation into a very profitable organization,,and brain wash their followers into following their every command..
.
Of course it's not Christian bashing...
... when the Evilgelicals do it, NO?
.
There is no God but our God
The humble Christians say.
There is no God but our God.
To Him alone we pray.
What of the others by the score,
Gods just as great and mighty.
Of Allah, Odin, Jove and Thor,
Venus and Aphrodite.
If to the one alone we pray,
And He is just a faker (fakir?),
There surely will be Hell to pay
When we meet our maker.
So, good Christians take my advice.
Don't be so egotistic.
And on occasion in your prayers
Address some other mystic.
Remember there have been a score,
A hundred, thousands, maybe more.
To say there is but one God
Might make the others sore.
Good Christians believe in one God.
Myself, I must confess,
Am not so very different.
I believe in just one less.
If you click through to the authors at http://www.christianadc.org/, you can post info on an incident of Christian bashing, if you've seen one. Sorta like mine:
(Posted to http://www.christianadc.org/ as an incident of Christian bashing)
"A website ludicrously claimed that Barack Obama, a good Christian, was not a Christian, while at the same time ignoring clear political manipulation of faith by politicians like President George Bush.
The link is here, but prepare to have your intelligence insulted:
http://christiannewswire.com/news/437499077.html"
Federal judge: Schools 'promote' religion, orders activities to cease (see DOCUMENT)
January 12, 2009 06:46:00 PM
Snip - "U.S. District Court Judge M. Casey Rodgers granted the preliminary injunction late Friday following the district's admission to the court that it has violated the constitutional rights of students."
http://www.newsherald.com/news/santa_70988___...
Praise the Lord!!!
May God Bless you
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