Wilkerson: If I Were Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jim Haynes...I Wouldn't Travel

Lawrence Wilkerson tells CNN's Rick Sanchez just who he thinks was running the show in the Bush administration, why the Cheney family is out in full f

Lawrence Wilkerson tells CNN's Rick Sanchez just who he thinks was running the show in the Bush administration, why the Cheney family is out in full force defending torture and suggests that a number of members of the Bush administration should avoid travelling.

Sanchez: You know the idea...I was struck by that because I heard the term "lawyer up" and I was trying to figure out what she meant, because it seems there's an implication with the quote lawyer up implying that these suspects shouldn't be allowed any kind of representation. And it makes me as an American then wonder, given the legal system that I know that we have in this country, if they don't have lawyers and there aren't any courts, then who decides that they're guilty or innocent? Did anybody ever ask that question?

Wilkerson: This is absolutely Orwellian. His speech yesterday was Orwellian too and George Orwell when he was with the BBC talked about this a lot--when lying drives out truth telling. And Mark Twain of course said a lie will make it around the world before the truth can pull its socks up. That's what they're involved in. That's what Karl Rove taught them. That's what they've been involved in for some time. And her bona fides scream at me that what in the world is America's media doing listening to this woman? This woman has absolutely no bona fides to talk about this.

Sanchez: She has made eleven appearances in nine days, so she certainly has been getting...um...a lot of us....

Wilkerson: They're scared. I think they're frightened. And I don't blame them for being frightened.

Sanchez: Why? Why would Dick Cheney be frightened?

Wilkerson: Well we've got the possibility, I realize the political will doesn't exist, but we've got the possibility of domestic problems for him, and we've certainly got the possibility of international problems. Judge Baltasar Garzon in Spain has started a case and if I were Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jim Haynes and a host of other lawyers in the administration, I wouldn't travel. I wouldn't travel anywhere.

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