Blue America Welcomes Alan Grayson For A Discussion Of American Policy In Afghanistan
By Howie Klein Thursday Sep 24, 2009 2:00pmAlan Grayson has been a big Blue America fave ever since we first met up with him in January, 2008. He was our first endorsement that year and one of our most celebrated victories, having beaten an entrenched, useless incumbent in a traditionally Republican district in central Florida. Since being elected, Alan has been a progressive leader, primarily in financial regulations through his committee position on House Financial Services. But he also was one of 32 Democrats in the House who stood up to demands from the Obama Administration that a supplemental war budget be approved last June.
It was a ballsy move, especially for Democrats in Republican-leaning districts, like Alan, Eric Massa and Carol Shea-Porter. I doubt Alan ever wavered from his commitment to the voters in his district to not approve any more supplemental budgets. But you can ask him yourself when he joins us for a live blogging session here at C&L, 3pm PT (6pm back East). Alan will be helping us launch a new Blue America Initiative to help draw attention to the situation in Afghanistan and figure out what progressives can do to effect change.
Alan is prepared to work even harder this year to head off an escalation of war in the 8th year of occupation of the country. "We are using a 19th century strategy to fight a 14th century opponent, " he told me yesterday. "Does anyone seriously believe that the best way to defend our borders is to send a quarter of a million Americans 10,000 miles beyond them?" He also told me he thinks we can change Obama's mind and turn this thing around. "He's too smart," said the congressman, "to let someone else's war ruin his presidency."
And with Republican Tim Johnson of Illinois promising to introduce legislation to withdraw American troops, an idea that some other Republicans, like Walter Jones (R-NC) and Ron Paul (R-TX) seem to be embracing, Alan is ready to work across the aisle -- as he has been doing with his crusade to force an audit on the Federal Reserve -- and help focus more Democrats and more Republicans on what he calls "the senselessness of war without end."
If you haven't visited it yet, today is launch-day for Blue America's new ActBlue page, No Means No!. We're asking anyone who can afford to, to contribute-- even if it's just a few dollars-- to the Democrats who have already shown their willingness to draw a line in the sand and not break their pledge. Today, everyone who donates-- regardless of how much-- will have their name put in a hat and 6 random winners will get the new book by New York Senate candidate Jonathan Tasini, The Audacity of Greed. Jonathan donated the books for this event and he autographed each one.
Meanwhile, please take a look at the first segment in the BraveNewFilms movie, Rethink Afghanistan, something that every member of Congress needs to see-- at least as much as the briefings from the Pentagon and spy agencies.
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Alan, welcome back to C&L. If I haven't said it to you before, thanks for voting against the supplemental, thanks for introducing the paid vacation legislation, thanks for being the bane of the existence of the crooked banksters on Wall Street and thanks for getting the move to audit the Fed off the ground. I remember from the campaign you were like a forensic investigator when it came to misplaced funds in Iraq and since you're on the Financial Services Committee, let me start off by asking you a question about how the occupation is funded. Obey said June's supplemental would be the last one, which means, I assume, the administration plans to fund the war through the normal budget process. Does that mean Republicans are going to vote for tax increases? Or that Democrats are suppose
Republicans in Congress will vote for whatever that loud voice in their heads tells them to vote for.
The problem is when they start getting drunk at the Capitol Hill Club and the loud voices in their heads get screamed at the president during a Joint Session of Congress
It goes away when they wear those tin-foil hats.
Wow. Crooks AND liars. Usually it's one or the other. Unless you're talking about the National Republican Party.
One word wasn't enough to cover the RNC and the GOP...
Let me try to summarize this. All we are saying is "give peace a chance." We sure have tried everything else.
Too much bad blood between old enemies. I like the strategy of declaring peace and the US forces proper leaving, leave the mercenaries in place to tidy up. What happens to them who cares.
It's bizarre that anything thinks that we're going to solve Afghanistan's problems. The Bablyonians probably thought the same thing.
Alan, welcome back to C&L. If I haven't said it to you before, thanks for voting against the supplemental, thanks for introducing the paid vacation legislation, thanks for being the bane of the existence of the crooked banksters on Wall Street and thanks for getting the move to audit the Fed off the ground. I remember from the campaign you were like a forensic investigator when it came to misplaced funds in Iraq and since you're on the Financial Services Committee, let me start off by asking you a question about how the occupation is funded. Obey said June's supplemental would be the last one, which means, I assume, the administration plans to fund the war through the normal budget process. Does that mean Republicans are going to vote for tax increases? Or that Democrats are supposed to vote to cut social programs? Is this going to help us get this war over with?
Whatever the bill says, taxes, social programs, the war, whatever, I'm pretty sure that the Republicans will vote against it. It keeps them from having to think.
That's funny but I know you work across the aisle with them. Aren't you enjoying some comity with Republicans in your efforts to get the Federal Reserve audited. I think most Republicans want to vote for the war. I know some are against it. It should be interesting to see progressive Democrats making common cause with less insane Republicans.
Yes, on those rare occasions when they're right. Tomorrow is a hearing on auditing the Fed. The bill was introduced by Republican Ron Paul 26 years ago, when I was still in school. And it's never had a hearing until now. But when you're right, you're right, so I worked to get a hearing on the bill. Plus over a hundred Democratic co-sponsors.
Thanks so much for coming on C&L and for voting against the war funding...
You bet. Thanks for bringing like-minded, and right-minded, people together.
A study in the New England Journal of Medicine last year said that 15 percent of all American soldiers returning from Iraq come back with permanent brain abnormalities, otherwise known as brain injuries. Complete with depression, PTSD, and all the rest. Why isn't this on the news?
Aside from being complete tragedies for these soldiers and their families, it's probably very expensive for the taxpayers. Any figures on that?
Two years ago, the figure was $3 trillion -- with a "t." We're talking about a quarter of a million Americans who will need care for the rest of their lives.
and as the Wa Po just told us they have to make sure he's not breaking big news stories so why bother with the health of the troops when they'll have to keep an eye on him
Anyone who remembers the movie Network knows all about Glenn Beck. The "Mad Prophet of the Airwaves." We'll see if the story ends the same way.
the movie Network (my all-time favorite) becomes my hero.
They train soldiers for months to kill people too.
Why not train them for months to ease them back into peaceful society?
For years it was reported in the British media (when I lived there) about how soldiers would be demobbed and virtually booted out onto the street over the weekend, explained why so many homeless people were PTSDed veterans.
Quite a lot of orphans or people with almost no family join the military to fill a need for family, these people are most at risk when they leave, they have no family support network.
That's one of the great tragedies. PTSD is lifelong; these people need help. But the national Republican leadership stops caring about you after you're born, so for sure, they stop caring about you after you serve.
memo leak?
What I said -- it's a 19th century strategy being used against a 14th century opponent. We have to get rid of the Bush holdovers, and deliver what Obama promised -- CHANGE.
How do you rate Obama in the change department so far?
We have a long way to go.
Does that include DoD Secretary Robert Gates, slightly puzzling to me that a Bushco appointee in such a top job was left in place, and how many people surrounding him are also Bushies ! A recipe for disaster IMHO.
Gates is a technocrat. He needs direction. But there are way too many holdovers, and without direction from above, they're playing the same tune that they've always played. McChrystal is not the Commander in Chief; Obama is.
the invasion of Iraq seem to think that the US action in Afghanistan is 'righteous' or 'good.' Al Franken said words to that effect about a year ago on CSpan and it made me ill to hear HIM say that.
How do we began to get our troops out of there? I feel that many Democrats in the house and senate are very ineffectual or confused or don't even know where to start, and that the Democratic Party itself has no real goal as far as getting our people home in a timely manner. Do they realise there's no such thing as a traditional 'win' in both Iraq and Afghanistan?
Am I wrong here?
In both 2006 and 2008, the Democrats were the anti-war party. How soon we forget. Some of us, anyway.
no action. Or worse, doing exactly the opposite of what is being said.
I don't recall a strong Democratic Party anti war movement, as in Let's get out of there, now!"
The reason for this series of discussions we're kicking off today is so we can talk with the members of Congress-- like Alan Grayson now and Eric Massa tomorrow-- who already voted against the war appropriations twice (in June). These are the men and women who put their money where their mouths are
put their money where their mouth is.
That's what I was doing when I fought war profiteers in Iraq for five years, before I was elected. Why should I stop now?
Rep. Grayson - first, thanks for fighting for us!
Do you believe we need to keep some level of troops in Afghanistan for containment? Or why not? (And I'm for getting out, but how...?)
Declare peace and then the US forces proper leave, the mercenaries stay in place to tidy up.
I wouldn't call them mercenaries, but troops from countries that are nearby would be more likely to be well received. Not flowers in the barrels of their guns, and the Neocons predicted for us in Iraq, but something better than implacable hostility.
They are disposable to a degree, they sign up to their companies to fight for money, its not like the media and public cries much over their troubles.
Mercenaries have a bad reputation generally, people envy and begrudge their fat paychecks. Makes them the perfect Patsies to leave behind to hold the peace.
Containing what? "Containment" is an empty metaphor, like "the domino theory."
Good point...but would we pull all troops out? Or leave some? In your opinion. (Thanks for going after the war profiteers.)
I'd just like to hear a *plan*! (And when can we get all Blackwater, et al outta there too?!)
As even George Will seems to recognize now, occupying another country does not make us safer. In fact, the cost to us, in both money and blood, is far greater than the cost that the enemy could inflict on us itself.
Some person wrote about what if Al Quada or anybody took out a US city, his/her reasoning went along these lines.
'is that the best you can do !!! we have 10,000 more cities, FOAD terrorist fcuks.'
The reality is that the public and the media get worked up over one terrible incident and people lose the ability to reason, certain poltical types take advantage of this. GWB/Cheney etc.
But life goes on we are a big country. Ditto for all the rest of the world when some nasty natural disaster happens and a city dies.
There are times when you have to be stoical and look to the future, not the past.
Fear and hatred, hatred and fear. That's their whole game plan.
Terrorists or some members of the conservative movement?
I find it hard to at times...
Hi Rep. Grayson,
Do you know the status of Rep. McGovern's bill, 2404, to demand a Pentagon exit strategy by the end of the year? I imagine it would probably get close to 160 votes at this point- it got 138 early in the summer.
Thanks!
outofafghanistan.blogspot.com
I know all about it. And McGovern is very, very determined.
Doesnt it have to get out of committee somehow?
That's always a problem. I'm more hopeful that Obama will simply change his mind, when he sees the political consequences of endless war. He didn't start these wars; why should his career be destroyed by them?
there really are no moderates left. The Michele Bachmann's are all that's left it appears.
Moderate maybe, but with a surreal perspective on life.
There are few as out of their minds as Bachmann (Mean Jean, Virginia Foxx, Paul Broun, Joe Wilson). These days Ron Paul looks sane-- at least in terms of the war-- compared to most Republicans.
he's not screaming about turning back to the gold standard lately.
Dr. Paul has always been against the war, for an interesting reason. He points out that the Constitution doesn't even contemplate standing armies, much less armies standing in Afghanistan.
Alan Grayson on Audit the FEDERAL RESERVE Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt6maprKisI&fe...
I agree with Dr.Paul on these two issues too:
No imperial WARS and Audit the FR.
But sadly most politicians today care more about parties rather than Ideas.
Question:
Can you elaborate a little more on the ACORN lawsuit and the Congress' push to de-fund ACORN and the resultant legislative quagmire that results when basically it means that most programs for The Pentagon would have to be de-funded due to fraud??
I, and I venture to guess, most of us here at C&L would LOVE to see The Pentagon get it's nose cut off.
At least that way we could pay for Single Payer Health Care!!!
Thank you for EVERYTHING YOU DO!!!!
Warmest regards,
Abbybwood, R.N.
Member, PNHP
The bill, H.R. 3221, defunds every organization that has ever filed a fraudulent report with any Federal or State regulatory agency. As it turns out, this includes all 10 of the 10 largest Government contractors. To which I say, hooray. Finally, we take the fraud out of government contracting. Too bad that it was inadvertent.
to a sad chapter...
in your district try to capitalize on your anti-war votes?
We've polled it already; people in our district are just as unhappy about the war as people everywhere else. But since the national Republicans think that the entire electorate shares their weird obsessions, maybe they'll try.
Although, we may rightly complain about the Republicans remember, it was a large block of Democrats who stood lockstep with George W. Bush for eight long years. Either through personal conviction, voice of constituency or sheer cowardice as being branded weak... fill in the blank- terror/ war funding, torture/ Patriot Act, gay marriage, Wall Street bailouts... as I suspect the latter.
The Democrats are complicit in the Bush Crime Spree and their hands are soaked in the same blood as their Republican brethren.
Now that Obama is in Office there remains a block within the Democrat Party that oppose this President. Excluding good men like Mr. Grayson and all rhetoric aside, there is very little difference between the two parties.
Thanks, but the situation is better than that. I deal with the Leadership every day. They are good people who really do want to make things better. It's our job to mobilize support for this throughout the country, and make sure that we don't get rolled.
How can grassroots and netroots activists help members of Congress end the occupation?
Blog, write letters to the editor, write to pro-war Congressmen and Senators to tell them what you think, and make appointments with Congressional office staff in your district to politely press the point.
Do members of Congress really care if someone makes an appointment to talk to a district staffer and say they want the war to end? I thought they were just sensitive to their campaign donors and Rush Limbaugh
What exactly is The Public Option???
Who would be eligible to join?
What would it cover?
How would it be different from Medicare/Medicaid?
My understanding is that it would only take the sickest of the uninsured and it seems like it's being set up to FAIL so in the future politicians can say, "See!! It didn't work!!"
Will it be allowed to cost less than private insurance?
Of course. But it will provide the same basic coverage, without any operating subsidies, so it will be a "level playing field" for private insurance.
The public option takes the Medicare provider network, which we've spent billions and billions to create, and opens it up to people who are willing to pay for it. The purpose is to provide an alternative network in places like Alabama, where one insurance company has a virtual monopoly. Anyone who is willing to pay for it will be able to join it, but the project is that 7% or less will. It will provide much needed competition, however. It will offer the same coverage alternatives (meaning no discrimination for preexisting conditions, etc.) that private insurance will offer. It will not be limited to the sickest, and (unlike Medicare and Medicaid), it will be open to everyone. But no one, including those receiving Government subsidies, will be required to join it.
for profit health insurance corporations for 25 years.
If I am "qualified" to join "The Public Option" I will work double shifts to pay for it just to spite the ROTTEN for-profit health insurance corporations!!!
Give me the 800 number to sign up! I'm ready to dial it NOW!!!
(What a shame that the Senate will probably deep-six The Public Option and that the Progressive Caucus will back down for a "trigger" or "co-ops").
More Democratic "going along to get along" shenanigans. (No offense to you Alan!)
They are going to be swamped with millions of claims and people, this is what will happen when people are forced by fear of tax penalty to purchase Hi they cannot afford.
Are we looking at a subtle plan to collapse the whole system and rebuild it !?
The answer is no. We are looking at a plan to provide affordable, comprehensive, universal health insurance coverage. No more games by the insurance companies.
Of which the teabaggers are a visible symptom, are going to scream blue murder over their lost share earnings.
One thing that puzzled a lot of leftie bloggers, why poor people in red states vote for Republicans who oppress them and offer them a pittance or nothing in return, akin to turkeys voting for xmas.
UHC will lift a monstrous load off the American public's minds, no more worrying about bankruptcy and homelessness after sickness.
To hear some Republicans and their ilk talk or to read between the lines, they seem to think sickness and illness is a result of sin, they think poor people deserve their pain and suffering.
UHC will drive a stake through the heart of the rotting corpse of the Republican party.
That's very benevolent of you Congressman but how do you propose to pay for Universal Health Care?
I know there's a lot of health care questions, but we're trying to focus on Afghanistan
Right. Let's focus. What is this, a town hall meeting or something?
Sorry , been a long day at work.
Rep. Grayson:
Here's why I believe we are in Afghanistan.
Please save the link for later perusal. Thanks:
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntn81969.htm
Actually, I think that Rudyard Kipling had a good grip on the reason:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden
Both Russia and China are playing games in central Asia, so reminiscent of 100 years ago and the great game.
and updated below
The point is we are paying for two failed wars, a failed economy and now are being foisted into paying for a failed health care plan.
Mr. Obama is as free wheeling with our tax dollar as any Republican. He has also increased troop strength in Afghanistan where we are losing 12-15 Americans a week. Yet, the Left and war protests have disappeared as if we are now fighting the "Good War" in Afghanistan.
It begs the question... How are we going to pay for all of this?
Well, Bush never paid for it. Which is why we all ended up paying for it.
We did not elect Barak Obama because he would continue the failed policies of the Bush Administration.
We elected him to reign in the free spending and feed at the US Taxpayer trough mentality.
Instead we get an escalation in two theaters of war, continuation of rendition/ Patriot Act, unaccounted bailout dollars, a new front on the War On Drugs as if we have elected Republican-lite.
I guess we'll blame it on Bush just like Republicans blamed it on Clinton.
It's a cycle of ineptitude.
on the Afghanistan war?
What people like you, with an audience, can do is to focus again and again on all the different aspects of the tragedy of the war. The fallen soldiers. The civilian deaths. The war profiteers. The outrageous cost. The more that people know about the war, the more they hate it.
Resigned to the horror so ignore, and focus on other things, the saturday BBQ, the football game etc.
You'd be surprised at how many people do really care. We through up a five-minute video on YouTube from a hearing on the Federal Reserve, where I grilled the Inspector General. 2.7 million people have watched it. That's more people than watch Glenn Beck. So people do care.
But also a lot of people think they are powerless and small.
The war mongers take advantage of this fractional thought.
The truth and reality of the apparently failed pointless exercise.
War is never a fun game outside of Hollywood, everybody loses.
we must have a clear strategy if we indeed decide to send more troops we must have a clear endgame. if we start pulling out troops there needs to be a clear message to the citizens of this country and people of the world about the definition/meaning of"victory"......"peace with honor". if the message/linguistics is not handled appropriately we can count on getting beat up if you will be the politica/coporate opposition.
personally, i like many..... are wore thin on the osama bin laden hunt. it's time to pull bin laden' body out of the freezer and claim victory/job done.
Whose strategy? KBR's strategy? KBR's strategy is to perpetuate the war, and KBR's profit stream.
no doubt. the pentagon and the defense department need a strategy that can be voiced. these war(s) have been endless on purpose. cut a deal with the Taliban and get the hell out. have a off-shore presence.
While we're talking with Congressman Grayson I want to remind everyone-- hopefully without embarrassing him-- that we're in the middle of a fundraiser for the 32 Democratic members of Congress, like himself, who voted against the war funding supplemental budget. Every other Democrat voted yes.
Even a small donation will help us make the point to members of Congress that it pays to keep your promises and pay attention to what voters want. You can donate here at No Means No!.
That's exactly what I tell my five kids all the time -- No Means No!
But I'll save the link for about a week from now....
When my ship's coming in.
Rep. Grayson....you are worth every dime of a contribution!
Thanks. The 2008 race cost over $2 million. I don't think that 2010 will be any different -- not when the Executive Director of the National Republican Congressional Committee says that I'm their #1 target. So we need the help.
In case I missed someone else saying it.
War is a racket, it always has been.
End the wars.
I'd love to call Smedley Butler to testify in Congress, but it's too late for that.
I am hoping that there is someone who will speak with the same authority and conviction. Thank you!
Surely one or two consider themselves psychic and could channel Gen. Butler in a debate ;)
I don't know what the Speaker or the House would say/do, but would be interesting...
Seems like they should be tracking pro & con on Afghanistan.
And that Pres. Obama should be getting those figures.
I've written in (and to Congress people too).
But what else can we do (going back to Howie's question above)?
Write to the pro-war Members of Congress. Go to their town hall meetings, and . . . well, you can figure that part out.
Well, it looks like our time is up. "I'm so glad we had this time together . . . ." Have courage, be strong, and don't give up.
We appreciate the time and the efforts you're making.
Thanks for sponsoring these chats.
Thanks! It always helps to share time with people who have a conscience.
Been enlightening and hopeful, good things can happen.
Have a good weekend Rep. Grayson.
Rep. Grayson? I always hear different figures being tossed out by the idiot media.
The appropriated cost is around $10 billion a month, which is enough to pay for the entire health care plan by itself. But that doesn't include the future health care costs for injured American soldiers, which is staggering. Nor the cost to the Iraqis or Afghans, of course.
The staggering amount of human suffering now and in the future.
Makes me sick to my stomach at times.
Let's give a round of applause to Rep. Alan Grayson!
And thanks to John and Howie!!!
Great job!!!
... No Means No!
Eric Massa
I hope someone will pass this on to Rep. Grayson (as if he doesn't already know):
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/09/24-10
A tragedy of epic proportions.
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