Peggy Noonan - Not One Of Those "You Must Vote" People
By Jamie Thursday Oct 23, 2008 6:15pm
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On Morning Joe, Peggy Noonan said, "I am not one of those 'you must vote' people." This should come as no shock since Republicans always lose when we have a larger turnout, but her argument is that voters should be more educated. She even raises the question of rather the vote of an 18 year old should count the same as a 70 year old business owner.
A simple question to Noonan. What would become a good caliper for judging the level of knowledge before someone could vote? Would it consist of knowing the duties of the Vice-President?
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And these are the people who say Obama's elitist?
We send 18 years olds over to kill for us, whether as draftees or volunteers. They should have some say over how they're being used or abused.
Noonan has no shame.
And the first people I'd toss off the voters rolls for excessive stupidity are all the idiots who plan on voting for McCain because they just love Sarah Palin! Because she is just like them! And they are just certain that Sarah is qualified to be president because, gosh, she's just a breath of fresh air! (Do I smell moose?) And, besides, they know that any woman with 5 kids can sure run the whole country.
Next would be the idiots who are positive that Obama is a secret Muslim, (or Muslin, depending on the degree of stupidity we're talking about here), who is a secret terrorist.
Mind you, I'm not saying all McCain voters would be tossed off the roles, just the certifiable idiots.
a whole big friggin' bunch of them. We are talking millions.
The Daily Show had her white, dimpled ass on the other week. It was beyond smarmy........had to turn away.
Why Stewart has asshats like this on is beyond me. You could almost smell the old-lady perfume as she clutched her kerchief, and blushed while he showered her with fake accolades.
Thought I was tuned in to Puke Central on account of a Leave It To Beaver-like mistake...........ugh.
...political power and no corporate power.
Yeah, that's it!
She's happy to wave the flag when 18 year olds are sent over to Iraq, but if they want a say in how our country is run, suddenly her patriotitism stops for them outside the voting booth. I'm sure she savored all the votes that her hero, the senile dimwit, Ronnie Raygun got. Go away, Peggy, Kathleen parker has your job now. She's younger and has been a better fluff for Bush.
The rats are jumping overboard from the McCain steamer.
18 year olds don't count as much as 70 year olds? Tell that to the 18 year olds putting their lives on the line in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Since you mentioned it, Vietnam was the impetus for the vote going to 18 year olds, the point being made by veterans, we can die but not vote?
Maybe we can make the 18 year old's vote count as 3/5th's of a 70 year old's vote.
How's that?
Remind me again which party is elitist ?
She was in her 20's. I could never understand how someone like her (a female) could write for Reagan and Bush I (thousand points of light). I cannot stand watching her now. She's so damn smarmy. And so "reasonable." For her to question 18 year old's ability to be "serious" enough to vote is obscene. Apparently she assumes that 18 year old's are as dumb as she was. Sorry. The kids now rock. They have registered in unprecedented numbers (maybe that's why she denigrates them). I turned off my TV during this segment because she makes me want to throw up. Like I say, I remember when she wrote speeches for Reagan ("Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down that wall!" Reagan didn't ad lib. Until this election, we didn't see her. I thought maybe she'd given up and gone into a nunnery.
Her antiquated references and achingly mannered speech are as blindingly out of touch as her entire party. Their day is over and it
will take a great deal of hammering to press that point - new ideas do not penetrate easily. Conventional wisdom is marginalized by actual votes, ALL the people actually making clear what they want rather than being told by these self appointed kibitzers. Let us look at the old school: 1. Smears work. Answer: Maybe as recently as 2004, but heard of The Google? 2. Scare people. They won't have time to think it over or look at the facts. Answer: Repeat - Google + Youtube = accountability. 3. Family Values. Answer: difficult to promote when you have none. Can we spell hypocrisy? The neocon sociopaths of the last 8 years are building with the future in mind? I think not. The 70 year old voter enabled them to create this chaotic hell scenario, how about trusting 18 year olds with an actual stake in the future to vote on it.
Thank you Mrs. Noonan, your driver is here with your horseless carriage.
Is that what makes me want to reach through the screen and smack the crap out of her?
Oh good Lord, Peggy! One does not have to be "young" to be stupid!
Some of my 17 year olds in class could run around the ends of your arguement!
you're not really a teacher.
Why should anyone assume that, and what the hell does that have to do with anything at all?
her premise is simple. the only voters who can be un-informed and make an un-educated judgement are teenagers.
Adults, particularly 70 year old ones, would never make that mistake.
Their voting for bush in the last election kept them terrorism-free with a strong economy and dollar, and free, un expected investments for taxpayers in sound banks and financial instruments.
It's pretty obvious that Noonan has it precisely backwards (nothing new there). An 18 year old has a much greater stake in an election as the results will effect the rest of their lives. The greedy old 70 year old Noonan speaks of only has a couple of years left in him, what stake does he have in the future? As a 70 year old business man, he's probably wealthy enough not to depend on Social Security, doesn't care if the environment goes to crap and could care less if the US looses its prestige and squanders its collective wealth on endless and futile wars of aggression.
What we're witnessing is a changing of the guard. A new generation is going to take the helm. The people who are afraid of it are trying their damnedest to stop it. This is the 21st Century. They're still stuck in the middle of the 20th century. Move over Peggy, your time is over. It's time to move into the future. After this election is over, and President Obama takes office.The GOPers will try anything to discredit him. He's a smart man, he'll rise above it. But the GOP will descend into obscurity for the next 4-8 years. The Dems will win over both Houses. But that doesn't mean we should ease up on our efforts. And we should be willing to scrutinize our own. We've seen what happens when a party runs amuck.
There are a lot of stupid 18 year olds out there
who should not be allowed to vote.
The problem is a lot of them grow up to be stupid 70 year olds
who should not be allowed to vote.
well we certainly cant let 70 yr olds to vote can we? i got news for you bub the oldsters kept your ass from being a nazi , oh wait!
The older business folk were the ones doing business with the Nazi regime in those years. I'm sure they thought they knew better than any 18 or 21 year olds.
Peggy Noonan will rue the day she spoke those words. She’s going to have all kinds of kids on her lawn.
Can we vote on who gets to decide who can vote?
My guess is that the eligible 18 year-olds would vote Yea for themselves. But, of course, according to the dessicated bag Noonan, they are not smart enough to make that decision. Why do we bother to deconstruct these reptilian, mean-spirited, anti-democratic failed elites? WHY?
I'll just go ahead and decide for everybody, 'kay?
And next Friday will be Hawaiian shirt day...
Noonan just threw the whole "Liberal Elite" argument of the Republicans under the bus. If only educated Americans were allowed to vote, Republicans would never win another election anywhere.
Darn those "Liberal Elite" eggheads anyway!
Maybe it's code for can we just go back to when you had to be male and a landowner to vote?
And white
I wasn't going to say it :P
If you read the things they said about women before suffrage how could a woman possibly understand the complex issues at stake? Their constitutions were weak and they would get the vapors trying to make a decision. It's like throughout the whole of history, the conservatives resist change, fight for the status quo and always seem to long for those olden days. You know the days when kids worked in factories and made pennies, when worker safety meant making sure someones arm didn't gum up the machinery for too long or god forbid break it. When companies could have a monopoly, when the little guy never had a chance against the monied interests. The good old days like those. When people knew their station in life. Ahh things were so much simpler then....
Wasn't there a time in US elections when a vote by a -- then -- black person was weighted to be some fraction of a vote by a white person? Say, 1/3 or 1/2. Or am I thinking of another time and place?
I believe that was for a formula for the census during slavery, when needless to say, those folks didn't vote.
Alice X:
Yep. It was the now-amended portion of the Constitution that said, for purposes of calculating the population of a state, in order to determine how many Representatives it would be allotted in the House, slaves counted as three-fifths of a free, white person.
The slave states were adamant that their slaves should not vote because they were just property, but that they should be counted as people for the census.
to both of you for confirming my fading memory.
The "Beauty" of that was over representation of the Slave States for purposes of apportioning U.S. House seats...Sheesh, how did that work out?
When you think about it, wouldn't it be under-representation for the slave states? Unless you think slaves shouldn't have been counted at all?
they "cared enough to learn" was the required qualification to vote then the Republican base would not exist.
I don't know about any of you...but I have having a great old time watching the GOP fracture and splinter all over the place.
It's been like watching a two week long race car crash.
'Tis fun to watch after eight long years of tyranny. The repubs are destroying themselves like savage beasts.
An 18 year old kid has just as a much bigger stake in the well being of this country as a 70 year old business owner.
A 70 year old has only a few years left. An 18 year old has their whole life ahead of them.
Just cannot handle the fact that young people are willing to accept and vote for a black man as President.
Old, bitter ladies that have lost all hope for the future and hang on to whatever ideology was "in" when they were loosing their virginity, should not be allowed to vote either.
A simple question to Noonan. What would become a good caliper for judging the level of knowledge before someone could vote? Would it consist of knowing the duties of the Vice-President?
That's an easy one for the likes of Noonan: Anyone voting Republican or otherwise conservative has thought out his or her vote properly, and thus should be allowed to vote. Anyone voting Democrat or otherwise non-conservative has not thought it out properly, and should not be allowed to vote.
Heh, she's concerned that too many young people are voting without really understanding the issues. Actually, young people are the hardest demographic to mobilize, precisely because they don't care enough. The ones who are motivated to vote know what they're talking about -- at least on par with their older counterparts, who, by the way, are often stupid, ignorant fools who think Obama is an anti-Amurkin terrist.
I'm not a big believer in qualification tests for voting but if there were I'd settle for a simple yes or no to the question: Did your human ancestors hunt dinosaurs? Yes means no way.
One other question that could be added would be: Do you have an imaginary friend that tells you what to do?
Just trust the wealthy benevolent white patriarchy Peggy says, with our vast knowledge of the universe that is incomprehensible to you rubes and simpletons, you will survive and prosper.
Go ahead Peggy, lay your condescending and smug elitism on Native Americans for a starter. They weren't exactly thrilled about the "benevolence" of Manifest Destiny, and I'd bet they won't exactly warm up to your patriarchal garbage today, either.
Better yet, be silent next time and be thought a fool rather than speak up and remove all doubt.
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/mccai...
I think I saw your 70 year old business owner in there.
get off the bashing older people , your not helping your cause, after all these years the young people finally get off thier asses to vote, big deal where the hell were they when we needed them before oh thats right smoking dope and trying to get into the gal next doors pants,
in both 2000 and 04
so stfu
stfup yourself who the hell asked you alfonso!
you decrepit old fool
decrept old fool he he sonny i could still ty your ass in a figure eight knot!
Next she'll be saying only dried up old wasp hags should vote
that have performed oral sex on a"sitting" president...that gives us Luciane(Honorary Wasp)and Peggy...no,wait, isn't she a co-religionist of MoDo(RC)?
Don't trust her!
There are many different constituencies in the U.S. - what are the to do let someone else decide what they think? As many have pointed out this stinks on many different levels - old enough to pay taxes, die and be effected by policy. Not to mention how voter suppression factors in. How could you possibly make this argument - obviously if someone is voting they "care" enough to vote and they must meet her litmus test. I know a lot of over 60 year olds that are not voting - they don't care enough to go down to the polls.
Also you prefaced your statements with "I have questions" - where were they? - you didn't have a question you just spat out your 58 year old two cents.
Shouldn't that be going down on the pole...
Although her comment about the vote of an 18 year old vs. a 70 year old was inarticulate and ill-advised, I still agree with her larger point that it's NOT a good thing if people just vote to be voting. Ideally all voters would have some basic understanding of the issues and candidates, and those who don't care enough to get to that basic level should not be encouraged to vote.
Now, before anyone's head explodes, notice that I did NOT say that they should not be ALLOWED to vote, but that they should not be ENCOURAGED to vote. I'm not suggesting any kind of test, either. I'm just suggesting that the meme should be changed from "Vote" to "Read. Think. Vote."
I'll let you live. You added sufficient caveats.
when they are bombarded from the right 24/7 with outright lies
just fuckin vote
maybe next time we can get them educated...but this time i want all 18-24 year olds in their polling places
Amendment 26
1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
These rethugs sure have a hard time lately with the Constitution of the United States.
Why do they hate America so much?
Nothing to add here.
I want whatever she's been smoking. WTf is wrong with her? Another fucking fake and book whore.
it is apparent that she hasnt cared enough to educate anyone on the real issues
or even enough to care to say what she feels about the mccain/palin ticket
and i have heard from more young people who are truly educated on the issues
it wasnt an 18 year old at a mccain rally who said that obama is an arab
it wasnt an 18 year old who said that obama pals around with terrorists
it wasnt 18 year olds who have been lying about obama's responsibility and connection to fannie and freddie
it isnt 18 year olds who have lied about repugs wanting more regulations
NOONAN GETS A BOOT TO THE MOTHERFUCKIN HEAD
Mark me against voting litmus tests but mark me very much FOR teevee bloviator litmus tests.
What are the requirements for these @ssclowns again? Whatever they are they clearly need to be more stringent. That was one of the more stupederest and transparent things I've ever seen.
I've always thought that people's votes should be weighted according to their score on a civics test. To uphold the 'one-person, one-vote' ideal, everyone gets a weight of 1.0 regardless of what they do. But then, people can choose to get their vote multiplied if they elect to take a test in government and civics, similar to what immigrants now take. A perfect score bumps your vote up to 2.0 (the maximum), while anything less still gives you 1.x based on your test score.
Again, everyone gets one vote, just as we have now, but those who demonstrate additional interest and initiative can have their vote count for more if they take this entirely optional test.
I'm sick of having my vote canceled out by the 'low-information' voter who thinks that the Vice President actually makes laws in the Senate, to choose one example. Weighted votes would allow me to feel better about my participation in government.
Your "interest and initiative" argument is absoutely ridiculous. The right to vote is not something to discredit/upgrade based on intelligence, interest, action, etc. In a democracy, even a democratic republic such as ours, every vote cast must be equally weighted. If we're going to offer an optional civics test to power-up someone's vote, why shouldn't we give more weight to the votes of those who pay money into the public financing for elections fund while we're at it. Or even better, how about for each dollar you pay you get an extra vote. I'm bringing $300k to the polls when I vote, maybe I'll swing texas' electoral votes to obama's side.
On Noonan's comment
I can't decide which is more obscene, her nasty comment or that she wasn't laughed off the set.
My vote, your vote, every goddamn vote is absolutely as legitimate as any other vote.
In an ideal world, all votes would be equal. Unfortunately, many people vote not based on their own knowledge or intelligence, but instead based on their adherence to an authority structure that persuades large numbers of 'low-information' voters to vote against their own interests. See: religious right, talk radio, Fox News, et. al. Very few citizens are truly informed about the issues. Numerous authoritarian figures and organizations take advantage of this and get them to vote without thinking. This is how Bush won his second term, pure and simple.
So where does this leave someone who values critical thinking, research, informed participation? Why should my vote, with all the effort I put into reading and discussing the issues, (not to mention reading through all the endless California initiatives) get canceled out by some zealot who blindly follows the voting guide of their fundamentalist church, from A to Z? Is there any incentive left for me to even bother?
I do sympathize with your position,and I have struggled with the idea that my 'informed' vote is canceled out by one that is less informed. but in order to preserve a democratic society you cannot give one set of people more say in an election based on ANY criteria. The intention of the action does not matter; it is disenfranchisement at its core. The solution to imperfect democracy is education alone.
I firmly believe if your old enough to die for your country your old enough to vote. Conversely, if your looking for your glasses and there on your head, your too old to vote.
Weighted votes might've given McCain a chance.
I am amazed that you can still find anyone in this country-- let alone a "mainstream" commentator-- advocating this sort of inequality in the vote. She's basically making the old 3/5th of a person argument-- that her preferred segment of the population should have more votes.
Disgusting.
Suffrage for the MALE LANDED GENTRY ONLY.
From what I read it was all the rage when Peggy was a girl. Surely we could post a Phrenologist at the door of every polling place to gage the size and shape of every voters head...just to make sure they "measure up".
Does that mean criminalize abortion (how much time should women serve for this crime noone ?)?
I am repeatedly disappointed with the disintegrating state of our news outlets - other than Moyers on his Friday show, Frontline, and others internationally - this is a joke ! I said, let me repeat it, it's a joke ! noonan is a joke and through this guilt by association bit - hate me for saying it, but at least listen to the argument - the wall street journal is quickly becoming rag-like material, losing alot of its in depth coverage of business.
This, however, brings me to the multiple ideas that have been festering in my head after reading voraciously about the abuses of this current administration, the disappointment of coward democrats after 2006 (go progressives ! VAN JONES FOR PRESIDENT !), cheney (war criminal after watching torturing democracy and knew it even before that with his in the shadows bullshit !)
I swear I am much more convincing in person, especially with glancing at all the comments, the video, alternet, and a great article I read in the columbia journal review about the outright lies that are being perpetrated by the press, but this article focused on the business press... nobody knew about the possibility of a financial meltdown ?!$E@ You gotta be shitting me dude ! That's ridiculous ! Nouriel Roubini, James Gardner, etc. I did read a great article by their business editor based on an interview that he conducted with Anna Schwartz, who wrote a book with Friedman (ouch), about Bernanke fighting the last war, aka the great depression.
Politicans are fighting the wars that lobbyists want them to fight. Another great book I would highly recommend on who else we can blame this current debacle (financial and economic)on are oil companies and their ICE exchange in Atlanta, all setup by the Enron boys or at least populated by ex-enron traders who under the watchful eyes of self-regulation, have contributed to the fastest rise oil prices in human history (Antonia Juhasz is the author of The Tyranny of Oil: the World's Most Powerful Industry -- And What We Must Do to Stop It (HarperCollins, Oct. 7, 2008). www.TyrannyofOil.org.) and also now, as it previously happened in the early 80's, we are entering a recession.
These problems are so mind-numbingly complex and now inter-related that it does all of us (the country really) a GREAT DISSERVICE to have people blaming the poor. I must say that I am proud that I convinced an avowed republican today at work that ACORN and Feddie/Fannie are not solely responsible for the current shredding of our world economies (like anyone intelligent would have a problem connecting those dots) - but i marvel at the thought process that must go on in their minds to beieve this meme.
I could go on, but I need some rest and I just wanted to say how I would love to write for this blog or any others of its caliber. Work is okay, but this stuff I could read forever...
With love and understanding,
k
You miscreant of fiery scorn...
Must you give that look of supremacy?
Must you attempt to segregate
as one attempts to educate?
There are plenty of 25, 30, 40, 50,
60 year old citizens who vote
because of the candidate's faith
and a twisted belief that God
has anointed a certain candidate!
Fairy tale kings have better chance
Of governing our country than they!
Are they more competent
or eligible
to vote than an eighteen year old?
Are the countless ignorant rednecks
who put flag before reason
more capable of deciding
who is best fit to lead?
Are the rich,
who could afford an education
to attend an Ivy league school
because of a parents money,
more adept to vote?
Or are you just a damned fool?
Methinks you need to acquaint yourself with history and perhaps read the constitution before you seemingly challenge another citizen who is, I'm rather certain, more privy to our history and laws than you.
The 18-24 year olds likely know nothing about Peggy, but they do know about being drafted.
It has to be obvious by now that the GOP, who hated McCain during the first half of Bush's takeover, put McCain up as the 'sacrifice,' knowing he would lose... saving the likes of Romney, Huckabee, et.al., for 2012.
It's as simple as that - send the old voting men to war.
because the eighteen year olds are not buying McCain's bullshit.
It's funny I was just thinking about this today.
I don't think there should be a test for voters to determine their right to vote. What I do think we should have is a mandatory test that anyone running for office must pass before they are eligible. The same test must also be passed by anyone they appoint. We have a Vice Presidential candidate and members of the US congress that barely even know the constitution. We have people who don't understand even basic economics pushing economic policies onto America. We have people who know nothing about nations or other cultures nation building in Iraq.
Nobody should be able to run for office unless they can at least pass a test that a perspective immigrant to this country is expected to pass. Ideally they would need to pass a much higher bar than that.
I have felt for years that the sanity of anyone running for the White House should be put into question. McCain certainly proves i was on the right track.
So I guess she'd exclude "the base" that still belive Iraq and 9/11 are connected (amongst a litany of other falsehoods). They haven't taken the time, to care, to learn.
Maybe she wants to tie the vote to income. An elitist's Rep. by Pop. And part of why there was a revolution in 1776.
No taxation without representation.
She would have those elitist fucks suck us dry with taxes to bail out their friends, but then not give us the right to vote.
How about the requirement that you take a fucking civics class before being allowed to get anywhere near politics!
jeeeeez
OK Piggy. How about an IQ test for Congress members, before they can vote.
Questions:
Is the earth flat?
Did we cohabit with dinosaurs?
Was Saddam Hussein responsible for 9/11?
Can I make $1 trillion dollars into $55 trillion dollars with clever accounting? (Shades of Jesus, you know: or pure alchemy.)
Add your own here __________________________.
Oops, it appears I misspelled Peggy. No vote for me?
Let's see her try telling that to the 18 year old Iraq veterans that have to fight and die for Dubya's stupid bullshit. Let's see her tell that to the 16 year olds fighting for their right to vote that could drive her into the fucking ground in a real debate(there's plenty of 'em). Hell, let's see her try to pull that on anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size.
Fuck that ageist ****. Feed her to the maggots that are her intellecutal and moral superiors.
LOL! Touché!
Applause...
The 70-year old business owners who can vote, get drafted and fight wars, and the 18-year olds who can't vote, get to stay home.
The really strange thing is, Republicans fought tooth and nail against early voting, yet they are doing it in large numbers. All the while many of them bitch that it is the road to voter fraud.
Any vote for a democrat is fraud in their book. They can't stand the idea of brown skinned and young voting. Unless it's for them, then it's all right. Voter fraud is a non issue. First of all anyone who goes out to do a registration drive MUST turn in ALL registration forms PERIOD. Imaging some Obama supporting registration effort is off in the community, they collect 200 registrations, some are going to be republican some democratic and some independant. They must turn in every one, if that wasn't a requirment enforced by law you would have people going through the stack and removing the "funny" ones most likely from the oppositions party affiliation. Imagine the uproar if Micky Mouse registered as a Republican and some democrat saw micky mouse and threw it in the trash? ALL registrations must be submitted to the STATE for verification. it is not the person going door to door to assertain if they are valid. Actually there was a story in 2004 or 200 can't reacall exactly but that's what happened basically, the Republican office in the state was going through the registrations, well if there was misinformation or some problem with the registration if it was a Republican one it got a phone call and they attempted to contact the person to get it fixed, if it said Democrat, poof, right into the trash no attempt to verify. So the DEmocrats do the right thing, IE turn in ALL registrations no matter how ludicrous or silly and they get attacked nation wide as voter fraud, secondly it's not voter fraud till someone votes. Thirdly Mickey Mose is not going to be allowed to vote. The right is just putting the pieces in place so they can take this election to the courts and say there was fraud. The Republicans did this in 2000 you have to accuse the other guy of doing what you are doing. So they attack us on fraud when it's the right that likes to use extra-legal means to suppress the vote and deny people the right to vote on any level. It worked in 2000 and 2004, why wouldn't they do it again?
Ever since they realized that young voters vote Obama they come with this argument. They. The party that supports the teaching of creationism. That twists abstinence and abortion studies. That abhors intellectuals. That couldn't give a damn about intelligence, actual and military. That mocks good grades on top universities. That slashes education budgets.
They. The Stupid Party. It's so effing ridiculous.
So we should count younger people's votes more or less than those of older 'more experienced' people?
Next, let's count minorities less. You know, preserve the traditional vote, the way God wanted it to be, 'cause this is a Christian nation!
/snark
Assulting and insulting the foundations of out democracy -- talk about anti-American!
Voting against your self-interest.
As I liberal I discourage selfishness, but as for people of modest means voting for your self interest means voting for the interest of your country.
The people behind McCain rallies cheering for tax cuts for the wealthy are not only pathetic, but dangerous to the rest of us.
Will we have to swear that we only get our news from FAUX News?
Peggy and her rich,white friends are scared to death because the end is near and after over 200 years it's about time! I bet this wrinkled old bitch looks under her bed every night,to make sure there are no boogey men waiting to rape her!
She doesn't want them too?
Recalls to me a joke about a 9th century mother superior telling her sisters that a Viking horde was on their way to pillage and rape and not to be afraid. But the sisters weren't listening to her because they were busy primping and preparing.
If you're a citizen, you vote.
Make it worth a rebate on your taxes, or someone else's taxes if you're claimed as a dependent.
It wouldn't have to be a huge amount, but a $50 tax rebate on election day would encourage a LOT of people to vote.
Why don't we just go back to suffrage for landowners only?
And to think that she's one of the "reasonable" voices in the Republican Party.
Voting is a civic DUTY! Obviously Noonan thinks very little of America and American deomcracy if she dares say such an un-American thing as that! And don't even get me started on the insanity involved with her idea of votes counting differently based on age. Ahhh heck you got me started already. I think it's safe to say that 1) younger people are probably better informed of current affairs then the elderly. 2) younger people have MUCH more of a stake in the future that will be shaped by those elected to office.
Is she saying that people should be older than 18 in order to vote? So does that mean they have to be older than 18 in order to join the military too?
What a twit. yes 30% of the population shouldn't vote because they're morons, but hey they're old enough to go to war. We can't exactly have 70yr. olds running everything.
right in the lumber yard.
/noonan
Denial of the right to vote because of preceived participation.
Thats Anti-American.
Valuing one vote more than another for any reason whatsoever.
Thats Anti-American.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights....
Equal and Unalienable
call michelle bachman!
Noonan's stilted, affected rhetoric comes straight from Wm Buckley. He loved that whole 18th century/Edmund Burke school of mile-long sentences designed to steamroll the reader. It's not something to try off-hand, but the modern writers who've made a success with it have been comic: P.G. Wodehouse, S. J. Perelman, Evelyn Waugh, and John Collier. For conservatives, it's either sound like a fop or sound like H. L. Mencken. Most conservative writers (Safire, Coulter, P.J. O'Rourke) have tried to ape Mencken. Noonan, not so much. Mostly, she just sounds affected (her polemical work) or cloying (her speech writing).
buckley was no Edward Burke. I happened to enjoy reading Burke's Reflection on the Revolution in France.
buckley used argumentum ad abstractum, argumentum ad antiquitatem and the logical flaw of ambiguity as his raison d'être for writing.
But then I always liked raison bran.
I have two words for Ms. Noonan...shut. up. Is she really advocating a return to the days of telling a certain group of citizens that they are not educated enough to vote? What's next...a poll tax?
noonan's never up for a nooner.
A 70 year old business owner? You had to get that business owner in there didn't you? Because they usually vote Republican. The last thing this country needs is business owners having even more of a say. How about a 70 year old on Medicare? And WTF? One persons vote should count less than anothers? This is America you creep. One person, one vote. This is as bad as the idiots who want to bring back the idea of only land owners getting a vote.
If that same 70 year old screws up on a butterfly ballot, he's just too damn dumb to be voting according to some, right?
)O(
When I was fifteen I was more informed than a lot of 70 year olds. Puhleeze. This is what it looks like when they lose. When the failures of the past 8 years come back and bite them in the butt.
I don't know what kind of "young people" she's hanging around (probably none), but I'm impressed with the enthusiasm and hopefulness today's youth.
She's implying that voting for Obama is somehow naive. How elitist is that? Maybe she was a nitwit at the age of 18, but some of us were actually paying attention to the world around us. Don't foist your lack of intelligence at 18 on the rest of us.
Peggy Noonan is worried that young people not having sought enough information to make a decision about the election.
I guess shes not worried about the the 60 yr old who thinks that Obama is a Muslim or that he's a terrorist.
Age does not automatically make you smart.
So aptly demonstrated by Noonan comments
she looks like she still doesn't know if she's coming. it shows in her taut, uptight plasticky-looking face. poor bitch.
A Republican who says that voting is optional...
You can die for your country at 18, but your vote....well, that's a bit shaky there, dontcha know?
I have three words for this lady, and they're NOT "Happy Birthday Peggy."
They involve self-fornication as described by the soon-to-be former vice president.
Stop trying to mess with the basic principles of the U.S.A. File this under another stupid anti-American idea.
All of these "conservatives" who want vote suppression, unequal voting, unregulated markets, unitary executive theory, suspension of habeus corpus, torture and whatnot can go find an unused piece of South America or something and make a go of it. And good luck trying to make your sick version of "America" work.
Just please, for the love of God, stop trying to screw up what my country stands for. Or try reading the fershlugginer Constitution sometime, for crying out loud. It's a pretty straightforward document.
Let's make it official! We can send these authoritarian elitist idiots to Alaska.
Since most of Alaska is owned by the US Federal Government, we have to charge them a fair amount for the land. I think $1,000,000,000,000 sounds about right, given all the natural resources there, don't you?
Once they pay the start-up fee, the Utopia of Alaska can then enact whatever crazy Ayn Rand/Pentecostal psycho theocracy they want, and the rest of us can thrive and eventually merge with Canada to form Unida, the Sane Hyperpower, Eh?
Don't worry, Alaska, we'll send you a bit of our budget surplus from our prosperity each year, just because it's easier than dealing with your laughable bellicosity and your deranged refugees. With our supplementation, you won't sink to third world nation status. Second nation, maybe. But not third.
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