Senate Health Care Debate Liveblog
By Jason Rosenbaum Saturday Nov 21, 2009 4:14pm8:09 EST: Dodd, presiding over the Senate, said the motion passed, smattering of applause. Motion is agreed to. Clerk is now reporting the bill and amendment.
And that's it for the night. Debate will begin after Thanksgiving, plus amendments, then moving on to the final cloture motion and a final vote.
8:04 EST: Cloture passes 60-39. Debate will start after Thanksgiving.
7:57 EST: Voting continuing.
7:56 EST: Clerk reading cloture motion.
The question is: Is it the sense of the Senate that debate on the motion to proceed shall be brought to a close. Clerk is calling the roll.
Voting now.
7:55 EST: Vote starting 5 minutes early.
7:54 EST: Absence of a quorum noted by Reid, and the roll is being called. Vote coming soon!
7:44 EST: The American people want us to start over. All it would take is just one on the other side of the aisle to not end the debate, but change the debate.
And he's yielded.
Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) is up.
My friend, the minority leader, has had since Wednesday to read the bill. Obviously he hasn't done so.
We debate the right to live free of disease and death by giving health care for all. The road has started many times, never been completed. Merged bills have never been done before. We couldn't have got here without the help of many Senators.
As a matter of principle, that I respect, the senior Senator from Arkansas insisted we have time to read the bill. All Senators have now had ample time. That is why we are voting tonight.
I invite Republicans to join the right side of history. Around dining room tables, families are agonizing over what to sacrifice next to afford health care. Employers are wondering whether they can afford to provide health care. Americans need reform.
Debate is constant, but the only place where silence is evened considered is the Senate. Now, finally, we have the opportunity to bring this great deliberation to this body. That and nothing more is what this vote does.
A yes vote says this issue is important and the Senate should at least talk about it.
Some Republicans would like Americans to think voting to debate the bill is voting to pass the bill. Tonight's vote is only the beginning of debate. It's clear Republicans have no problem talking about health care on TV, at town hall meetings, on the radio, yet now that we have the legislation to debate, to amend, to build on, will they refuse to debate?
If we refuse to let the Senate do its job, what are we doing here? What do we fear? And who's voice to you speak for? In who's interest do you vote?
Certainly debating reform can't be more difficult than American deciding to pay their mortgage or medical bills. It can't be more upsetting than having an insurance company take away your coverage when you need it the most.
Kennedy once said let us not be afraid of debate or discussion, let us encourage it.
Don't be afraid of debate. It's our job. We Democrats stand ready to do what needs to be done. We welcome debate. The framers intended for debate here. Imagine if instead of debating historic GI bills, this body has stood silent. Instead of debate social security or medicare, the Senate voices had been still. Instead of debating to abolish slavery or give women the right to vote.
Don't try and silence a great debate over a great crisis. Don't say you ran and hid when given the chance to debate this issue. The right response to disagreement is discussion. Democracy is discussion. Let us debate our differences.
7:32 EST: Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is up.
At a time when Americans are looking for jobs, the Chinese lecturing us about our debt, this bill costs 2.5 trillion the government doesn't have and can't afford.
It imposes punishing taxes on almost everyone. It raises premiums for 85% of Americans who already have insurance. It slashed Medicare by half a trillion dollars.
Anyone who votes "aye" tonight is voting for all of these things. It is a fact, a vote in favor of proceeding is a vote in favor of adding to the tax burden of Americans. A vote in favor is a vote to raise premiums, to deep cuts to Medicare, tells every American family sitting in a waiting room tonight that cost is not our concern. A vote in favor is a vote in favor of a spending binge that's leading to a massive long-term deficit.
If there were one Democrat, just one, who would say no tonight, none of this would happen. And then we could start over.
Under this bill, health care costs will go up, not down. 2000+ pages.
We don't want to end debate, we want to change it. Because once this bill is on the floor, the basic dimensions won't change. It's going to take 60 votes to change this bill. That means the bill that's introduced will fundamentally be the bill we'll be asked to pass sometime in the future. That is a fact.
7:25 EST: Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) is up.
Recognizing Kennedy, who "is with us only in spirit."
Then asks why we're all watching C-SPAN on a Saturday evening.
Health care costs is the single biggest threat to our financial future. Never before has this body confronted directly this issue. Health care is our most basic need. No matter how much you make, your hopes and dreams, who you are, where you live, what your job is. In America, we should be able to get the care we need.
For too many health care has become our most basic fear. Can't see a doctor. Premiums skyrocket. You lie awake at night wondering what if you lose your job, or you get sick and find out your policy doesn't cover care you need, or it's canceled altogether.
I wish I could say those fears are irrational, but they're not. Our system is broken. People are losing their homes and dying because they get sick. This is not acceptable in our America. That's why we're here on a Saturday night.
We need all the ideas we can get to fix this. But if you've watched the debate over the last few days, nobody has stood up and said we should do nothing at all. Tonight's vote is nothing more than a choice between doing something and doing nothing. I urge my colleagues to join us.
Dodd has yielded.
7:17 EST: Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) is up.
"To be mature means to face, and not evade a crisis." Our health care system is in a crisis, and this crisis will not solve itself. We must face the crisis.
For years we've studied the issue. We've held nearly 70 hearings. We combined a bill and we've brought that combined plan to the Senate floor.
We have a bill that will put Americans, patients, and their doctors back into control. It will end harmful insurance industry practices. No more denials of care. No more hyping up rates for sick Americans. No more taking away health care if you're sick. No more lifetime or annual limits. If you pay your bill, insurance companies must provide you benefits. No more discrimination based on gender. Insurance companies must disclose the share of premiums that go to medical benefits. No longer will insurance companies get tax credits if they pay their CEOs too much.
Our bill is paid for, it will lower costs, and it will reduce the deficit.
Many are happy with their current plans. This bill will not change that. But too many others don't have access to quality insurance. Our bill will give people choice and know exactly what they're buying. Tax credits will help insure all Americans can afford health insurance.
Small businesses will also have access to tax credits, and will be able to spread their risk. And no longer will there be a separate congressional health plan.
Our bill will strengthen Medicare.
We hope to have a full debate. But we have the opportunity at last to face the crisis and show mature leadership.
And Baucus has yielded the floor.
7:10 EST: I believe passionately that we should defeat this bill. We need a bipartisan bill.
Before I came to the Senate, I was a small business owner, a shoe store. When someone said they couldn't afford a shoe, I didn't give them a sales pitch, I found a shoe they could afford. The people in America are complaining, we're showing them the shoe they can't afford.
We have a big decision to make tonight, that will have a lasting effect on our country. If we pass the motion to proceed, we'll debate it for a long time. America will be surprised at the time we waste when we could be doing jobs and the economy.
And Enzi has yielded.
7:00 EST: This bill creates mandatory spending in perpetuity. Talks about the debt growing and jobs being lost. Reid said this bill will be deficit neutral. But the real cost is hidden by implementing taxes first and spending later. When you extend it on out, you won't continue to cover those cost. So, disaster.
What would constitute fraud in the accounting world is being voted on. Medicare is going to go broke, and we're going to take billions from Medicare. If Washington accounting had to come under the same laws as private business, the administration would be in jail.
Now talking about the American people. Majority of Americans believe their costs will go up. The American public isn't fooled. David Broder, the dean of Washington's journalists, said a recent survey said less than 1/5th believe that health reform will be deficit neutral, and a majority oppose the legislation. Broder said it was a "budget-buster."
The group of six couldn't come to any conclusions because the topic is so big. It's a thousand billion dollars. A billion is a thousand million.
6:50 EST: Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) is discussing jobs and how health care represents a "massive government intrusion" into health care. Government will determine whether your health care costs too much. What services you should receive. Now he's bringing up the mammogram recommendations.
Saying this bill gets it wrong. Doesn't fix what's broken and leave what works. Senator Reid is trying to jam through a strictly partisan bill. Will increase the deficit and harm our jobs. No serious economist would say this bill creates jobs or helps our economy. Health care spending will increase, will not improve quality, or change the delivery system.
"The voices of August are still echoing, and coming from a vast majority."
Says there is a job-killing tax on business because they will have to provide health insurance. The health reform bill will threaten your jobs. Heritage foundation says this new job-killing tax will put 5 million at risk of losing their jobs.
The bill will threaten our nation's jobs and economic growth, and increase our debt and deficit.
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Hello everyone! For those who I'm meeting for the first time, I'm Jason and I write for The Seminal as well as work for Health Care for America Now.
John Amato has been kind enough to invite me over to Crooks & Liars for a little bit of liveblogging the Senate health care debate today leading up to the cloture vote at around 8 pm EST.
I'll be keeping up with the debate in the Senate (on C-SPAN 2), as well as trying to explain the Senate procedure and answer questions folks might have.
And with that, here we go...








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I've been watching all day and I'll continue to watch until the vote but I get the feeling it really doesn't matter because in the end we're getting a crappy bill that doesn't even fully kick in for another 4 years.
Prozac and Jack Daniels is a more attractive proposal.
I'm a Lexapro and Laphroaig type.
time release.
Bitch McConnell is on the Senate floor now sniveling about the deficit. Oddly, he didn't open his ugly yap when Bush gave 3 tax cuts to the uber rich then bailed out Wall Street.
But you see, the American people need help now, and Bitch McConnell can't see how he's going to get anything for himself out of it.
Oh, horrors! That piece of shit!!!
The wingnut hand wringing and chicken little whining will begin in
earnest now on FOX and Hate Radio.
I wonder if it will finally settle in that they are marginalized,
irerelevant and have no real power except to make your ears throb.
Humility eludes them, denial becomes them and trouble follows them.
For some this simple but essential spiritual lesson is just too hard to grasp.
Here it is early-on in yet another new and very challenged century and republicans are still stuck in their own selfish screenplay of perpetual angst and exhausting victimhood.
bush package?
http://static.open.salon.com/files/bush-fligh...
Xanax and MJ
how come i get a sick feeling watching the senate? oh i forgot i cant get sick, or my death insurance cabal will drop me................
this is a joke. if they wanted to do it right, it would be a 3 page bill to make medicare start at age 0................
bullocks........
hooray the dems got the 60 votes for cloture.
all repigs vote no...as expected.
So, it's like what do we do about the Obama problem?
Frankly, if the Obama administration keeps on supporting some of these pernicious Bush policies I'll probably (for the first time) vote third party in 2012 along with many other disappointed progressive Dems, most likely giving the Republicans the win in which their first order of business (besides huge tax cuts to the very rich) will be to roll back & rescind any health care bill passed now. Sad, but true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrjHKMJTh1w
Priceless!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtVLK9jruKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27au5OicbI&fe...
The special effects in the Lon Chaney film are quite impressive!
The equipment was Kenneth Strickfadden's first used for Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, Son of Frankenstein, Ghost of Frankenstein, Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman, House of Frankenstein, House of Dracula and Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein, but also used in Universal Studio's Flash Gordon: Space Soldiers, Flash Gordon Goes to Mars, and Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe.
Simplified versions were in the Paula the Ape Woman series, which I've been meaning to catch.
It would reappear in Mel Brooks Young Frankenstein, and he tried, but couldn't get Jack Pierce's make-up design.
your knowledge of movie history is truly encyclopedic!
I wear ear plugs.
I've seen that probably 100 times - but it's really never, ever been funnier than tonight after watching all the fools in the Senate.!!
you POS if just one or two or maybe three of you regressives would vote yes instead of the regular policy of always no, you wouldn't have to be there on a Saturday.
are going to get anything.
Except maybe the mandate requiring all of us to tithe to the Insurance Industry on policies that still don't cover us on pain of owing a penalty to the IRS for not doing so.
It sez here by ur chart ur all f-*k*d up and everything.
and has Reid asked that Senators vote from their desks.
Just like in school.
That's only before they go to recess.
what if one of them has to wee-wee?
Wouldn't that be the French delegation?
What are you taking tonight??
Spicy buffalo wings, and store brand diet grape soda.
sounds as though it could an adverse effect on your brain, similar to the Python anesthesia..!
Or, listening to Mitch McConnell or John McCain ranting for 10 minutes...
Beat's listenin' to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMkIuKXwmlU&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmbw8OycJrE
It sure does!
:)
to work with pharma and insurance companies to exorbitantly raise rates between now and 2012 so that in 2012 they will be able to say: "See, the Dem plan didn't do anything - as a matter of fact it had just the opposite effect!" And millions of voters will buy it.
Health care is our most basic need.
What? Where did you get that?
Health care is not our most basic need. Air, water, food and shelter are our most basic needs. Health care comes after those. This is an important issue, but let's not let the rhetoric get out of hand here.
If there is not clean air, clean water, nutritious food and safe housing for everyone, all the health care in the world will not save us. If you're breathing fumes, drinking poisoned water, eating chemical-laden food or living in dangerous, run-down housing, no doctor will be able to make things right for you. Maybe someday we'll be smart enough to focus on THOSE issues before the cart-before-the-horse of health care.
World peace is a basic need. If you are killed by a nuclear explosion, no amount of health care will save you and it doesn't matter how clean the environment is. So we can't do anything at all until we achieve world peace.
it.
we lose either way
Liberman voted to let it pass
Yeah, but now he has to vote to close debate on the issue (more opportunities for pompous bloviating) and will probably vote against the bill's passage should it move to a vote.
In short, he's still got a couple chances to be an asshole.
This is terrible!!!!
What an awful charade on the American people....cutting deals so the likes of Lieberman, Landrieu and Ben Nelson go along with it must tell ya something.....
This is truly a bad idea---"healthcare reform" my ass!
I would Vote No because this Bill Sucks!!!! And I don't give a rat's ass whether you agree with me either.
No Liberal should be "happy" today....And if I have to explain it to you well, then check how "liberal" you really are!!!
The disabled and poor people should be very, very concerned over this bill. They should be strenghtening Medicaid for the poor and disabled rather than helping to ruin it. I have seen what Rahm Emanuel has wanted to do with Medicaid and that is to destroy it more so. The disabled and poor have not been figured in here when they pay so much attention to the "needs" of the Insurance companies. This bill should not be so long and confusing either. Who do they think they are kidding? We should all know that long, long bills are dangerous and what they do not say in explicit terms and that long bills aid and abet the big money players. This is nothing BUT A GIFT TO THE PRIVATE CORPORATIONS AND IF THIS WAS NOT THE CASE, THE LIKES OF MAX BAUCUS, MARY LANDRIEU, BLANCHE LINCOLN, JOE LIEBERMAN, AND BEN NELSON WOULD NEVER HAVE AGREED TO THIS!!!!
The Democrats and Obama are HOSTILE TOWARDS THE POOR AND THE DISABLED!!! IT'S NOT IN THE DNA OF THE DLC-DEMOCRATS TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE POOR AND DISABLED!!!!
so who can really 'win' this debate?
we still are most likely going to lose in the end but damn it passed.
Congressional history was not made today
these days.
Even if we win this in the end and get universal health coverage, the next Republican president will simply repeal it....
Universal Health Care. Starting at $1400 a month.
Such an action will be, the new GOP pres will do it. Some silly claim on presidential authority or some such will be brought up and anyone who questions the then president will be labeled a traitor and quickly silenced
..Mainly to undo any health care legislation put forward by the Democrats..
12' Republican nominees????
Wow, who new ANY Republicans were 12 feet tall!!
All Republicans will have to run on is fear and hatred...
I understand their cocktail bar has a twelve inch pianist.
Whats historic about it anyway.
It would of been historic.
60-39
How that make you progressives feel?
Progressives want a single payer system...why would progressives feel any worse than they did before this clown circus got to this point?
What is the point of your accusation?
deals that turned this "reform" to the right more and more was because they were working with the GOP. The reason was to get GOP votes. The reason we progressives were the one makeing the deals again and again and again was because it would bring in gop vote to make passing the "reform" a sure thing. Yet here we are on such a basic vote and not a single Gop vote.
My point is the reasons we were sold for the changes to reform makeing it less and less progressive are bullshit.
Why am I makeing apoint that should be clear to all because many still don't see it.
what happened was centrist dems controlled by big business, and lead by a couple of spineless fools did all that 'compromising.' There are maybe 2 progressives in gov't and I can name them in two tries: Kucinich and Feingold.
'We' who were sold what? I wasn't sold shit. Someone else might have been, but it sure as hell wasn't a progressive doing any of the buying. It was a bunch of corporately owned politicians who did all the 'buying.' and since the fix was already in...
You really aren't making anything clear. You are erroneously blending progressives with conservatives, because you apparently think there are only 2 sides-conservative and not conservative. The problem is, this country is so far right, so regressive, dems in gov't who would be liberal republic oparty members 30 years ago are considered 'left.' There is no 'left' in mainstream politics now.
I'm going back and forth between here and Simpsons reruns.
The Simpsons are about when Marge got sugar banned from Springfield after they got named the fattest town
And they broke for a commercials for anaconda sized Steak and Shake burgers.
Ultimately what's important is the bill that comes out of the joint committee. So while we maintain a constant vigil, let's not go around yelling, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" - yet.
After the joint committee do the disperse to the Twinkie committee?
With the new healthcare bill, Twinkies may be seen as a health hazard to eat...You know those shopping cards at the Market? Those electronic tracking machines of what you buy at grocery stores could be used by Insurance companies in the future to deny or approve your health coverage.....
They have not told you all this, but mark my words people.....Technology can be abused....
Eat up all your Twinkies Now!!!! Before the Insurance Company Gestapos have their way and you are forced to buy stuff you cannot afford now!!!
Forcing People to Buy Health Insurance is not:
1. a Public Option
2. Single Payer
Not Strenthening Medicare and Medicaid and Teaching Hospitals and Community Health Centers is:
1. Idiotic
2. Typical
3. Insane
The Chemical Industry is bigger and meaner than insurance. They won't stand for such mistreatment of their products-that-barely-classify-as-food.
The Timothy McVeigh's fellowship is pissed... as are the utopian's.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."--Albert Einstein
They pass this bill and then cap and trade, its over America. The Democrats and Republicans suck. It is just a show to get more money out of us to give to their corporations who own both parties.
No, America died when they passed Mediare. Or the Federal Income Tax. Or maybe it was when Washington put down the Whiskey Rebellion.
.
... like minds I guess? ;)
...if they get the Stupak craziness out of the final bill, and get rid of the mandate without an affordable open Public option...
Did you know? A single payer system could cover everyone, provide almost twice as much health care, pay all medical school tuition after graduation, quadruple the number of nurses, double the total medical research budget in the country and re-train all of the insurance company workers put out by this policy for almost half of what we pay now per capita?
That would make too much sense! And we don't do that kind of thing in America.
Oh, it's actually a health care industry give away / windfall?
Never mind.
.....for Obama to show who's really in charge. THIS is THE defining moment of his presidency. Either he drums up support for what we REALLY need (a ROBUST Public Option, with abortion rights for women), or he allows the Senate to slap some bullshit together. Without strong presidential leadership, RIGHT NOW, this past year will go down in history as a major loss for the
DEMSAmerican people.What else could go wrong for the Dems when they have General Patton on their team. Yes, General Patton!!!
Caucus Chair John B. Larson of CT has compared Rahm Emanuel to General Patton in political terms.....Aren't the Democrats and all their apologists so special to have the one and only Rahm Emanuel DICTATING the Healthcare bill to the House and Senate?
You all think Obama is controlling the shots about this "healthcare reform" debate? Think again. It is Victor Fuchs, Ezekiel Emanuel and Rahm Emanuel controlling every aspect of this so called "healthcare debate."
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