Barack Obama cites his mom as an example of the Health Care problems we face in 2nd Presidential Debate
By John Amato Wednesday Oct 08, 2008 8:01am
I thought this was a powerful moment in the debate for Obama. When a candidate can get personal about an issue it always rings true and in this case Obama draws on the the horrible experience his own mom had to endure during her final days fighting cancer and the insurance company. I'm still trying to figure out what Lisa Schiffren of the NRO was complaining about.
CNN:
Brokaw: Privilege, right or responsibility. Let's start with that.
Obama: Well, I think it should be a right for every American. In a country as wealthy as ours, for us to have people who are going bankrupt because they can't pay their medical bills -- for my mother to die of cancer at the age of 53 and have to spend the last months of her life in the hospital room arguing with insurance companies because they're saying that this may be a pre-existing condition and they don't have to pay her treatment, there's something fundamentally wrong about that.
So let me -- let me just talk about this fundamental difference. And, Tom, I know that we're under time constraints, but Sen. McCain through a lot of stuff out there.
Number one, let me just repeat, if you've got a health care plan that you like, you can keep it. All I'm going to do is help you to lower the premiums on it. You'll still have choice of doctor. There's no mandate involved.
Small businesses are not going to have a mandate. What we're going to give you is a 50 percent tax credit to help provide health care for those that you need.
Now, it's true that I say that you are going to have to make sure that your child has health care, because children are relatively cheap to insure and we don't want them going to the emergency room for treatable illnesses like asthma.
And when Sen. McCain says that he wants to provide children health care, what he doesn't mention is he voted against the expansion of the Children's Health Insurance Program that is responsible for making sure that so many children who didn't have previously health insurance have it now.
Now, the final point I'll make on this whole issue of government intrusion and mandates -- it is absolutely true that I think it is important for government to crack down on insurance companies that are cheating their customers, that don't give you the fine print, so you end up thinking that you're paying for something and, when you finally get sick and you need it, you're not getting it.
And the reason that it's a problem to go shopping state by state, you know what insurance companies will do? They will find a state -- maybe Arizona, maybe another state -- where there are no requirements for you to get cancer screenings, where there are no requirements for you to have to get pre-existing conditions, and they will all set up shop there.
That's how in banking it works. Everybody goes to Delaware, because they've got very -- pretty loose laws when it comes to things like credit cards.
And in that situation, what happens is, is that the protections you have, the consumer protections that you need, you're not going to have available to you.
That is a fundamental difference that I have with Sen. McCain. He believes in deregulation in every circumstance. That's what we've been going through for the last eight years. It hasn't worked, and we need fundamental change.
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I didn't know that about his mother...that's awful.
Poor John cannot fight stories like that. he only has a POW story that he beat into our heads that it's now a JOKE !!!
The biggest news was Tom Brokaw and his whining about time limits and the "rules."
For real! Brokaw was acting like a damn whiney ass turd.
It's a farce. To call these debates is a freaking joke.
EXACTLY!!!
John does not have a human story like That One's because he was born into a military aristocratic family, then he married an extremely wealthy younger woman.
Can we please get the racist chickenhawk Pat Buchanan off the air?
He defended McCain about the "that one" comment.
The same Pat Buchanan "How can you vote against America's sweetheart - Sarah Palin"?
Yeah...why he isn't on Faux Noise boggles ones mind.
Is proof that Nixon was the gift that kept on giving: Buchanan, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove, et al...
The GOP should have disbanded and declared a criminal organization right then and there, instead Nixon got a pardon, and we have been stuck with the bill ever since.
As long as we continue to tolerate vermin like Buchanan we will never get rid of these parasites...
He spoke at my university when I was in college and a townie threw salad dressing on his face.
It was really immature, but hilarious just the same.
I think Western Michigan University's website may still have the story and photos up, if anyone wanted a good laugh. I think it happened around 2004-05.
See... he has cancer in the face, and he gets free healthcare paid by our dime. No hassle.
Obama's mum should have run for office, get elected, and then she would have had a no-hassle paid by the taxpayer, all inclusive health care system.
Since Obama's mum did not have to spend five and a half long years without a kitchen table, she gets no sympathy from a real 'responsible' person like McCain.
McCain has not paid for health or dental insurance a day in his life.
He has been covered since birth to now with government insurance.
according to mccain deregulation will allow us all to shop around for healthcare.....now if any of you have done this before, its one of the hardest, tedious, and almost humiliating process to go through.
obama presented his healtcare points pretty well, but i think he could have done a better job explain how deregulating the health care industry will only let insurance companies scam the american people more and more....and this is literaly gambling with the lives of individuals.
also, a $5000 tax credit?, that want even cover the deductable if you need major surgery (like acl reconstructive surgery)
I could not agree more. as a european citizen (living in the US) I do not understand, what is so bad about having a mandate that every citizen receives healthcare?
I just recently tried to 'shop around' for a more affordable healthcare plan, and after being flat-out denied by a lot of big carriers (as I am self-employed) I was finally offered a plan for $770/month that did NOT include maternity (kind of a big issue if you're female). including maternity the same plan would have gone up to $2000!!
After venting my frustration to the poor insurance salesman he simply suggested to maybe not have any more children?! Speechless. As for the $5000 tax credit? that doesn't even cover my families insurance for 6 months....
Tell me about it. I am paying $580 a month for family coverage (myself, my wife, and 1 child) on an $8 per hour wage. In 10 months I pay out almost $6000.
4 graph
threw not through
Note and delete above please
OT but IMPORTANT!
From email my brother sent me:
PBS has an online poll posted asking if Sarah Palin is
qualified.
Apparently the right wing knew about this in advance and are
flooding the voting with YES votes.
The poll will be reported on PBS and picked up by mainstream media. It
can influence undecided voters in swing states.
Please do two things -- takes 20 seconds.
1) Click on link and vote yourself.
Here's the link:
http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html
2) Then send this to every single Obama-Biden voter you know, and urge
them to vote and pass it on.
The last thing we need is PBS saying their viewers think Sarah Palin
is qualified.
I first voted on this about ten days ago; the percentages then were tied at 49. A few days later, someone else mentioned that the vote result was the same. What about now?
... I just voted. Thanks for sending the link and will send it to others.
As for Obama's mom, I am deeply sorry for her horrendous treatment at the hands of her insurance company in the days she was dying. What a shame she will not be there on Inauguration Day to see her son's historic achievement.
Must be a crock. Still tied at 49%
So I voted twice. AHHHH - Voter Fraud, Voter Fraud!!!
about teenagers going home from school and playing video games all night, pausing (barely) to get another soft drink or hot pocket.
When that child is 53 and dying of cancer, his bill should be paid by me?
Go to hell.
Correct but your attitude doesn't help anything or anyone.
Rather then saying "go to hell" try sorry. . . I have to look after my own family and self I can't afford to pay for your unhealthy and self destructive life style.
So people who smoke or drink shouldn't be covered by everyone? Nor should people who eat fast food, drink soda or *gasp* eat hot pockets?
You don't want everyone to have health insurance because some individuals don't make healthy lifestyle choices?
I think that's ridiculous. Hell, I'd say almost ALL individuals do things that negatively impact their health (or don't do things that would make them healthier). To say we can't all have health insurance because we all make stupid decisions regarding our health is absurd.
I think health insurance is a basic human right. Plain and simple- we all deserve it.
"Go to hell"
No, you lead the way...literally. You'll of course change your bullshit attitude when some unfortunate tragedy hits you or a loved one...YOU ARE CLEARLY FULL OF SHIT.
Thank You!!!
I assume your handle name "king of kings" refers to your own personal Jesus. Right?
LOL...
I'm in lets say, middle age and belong to a gym, go 3-4 times a week for both cardio and weight training. Also ride bikes or swim some 5-6 hours a week. Any chance that I could get those gym/pool costs as a deduction because I am healthy and do not create a medical cost burden on society? I mean all those electric chairs you see advertised on TV, those cost us, how about rewarding good health lifestyles. Here's one for you. Fresh vegetables and fruits are tax free, while all processed foods (I could define them as anything with corn syrup sweeteners) are taxed for health care? All restaurant and fast food would have a federal tax surcharge, again for health care.
Do we have a health care problem or an eating/obesity problem? All cardiovascular rick-taking activities should be taxed and used for obesity and diabeties problems. I'll pay for my own broken bones (from risky riding).
Very inhumane of you. We all make mistakes in life, but you'd be willing to hoard your money and let others die? THAT is the fundamental problem with America. I don't believe in big government or forced spending either, but when it comes to health care I think we should ALL be questioning our own moral compass.
Unless one of those teenagers who is now going home from school and playing video games all night, pausing (barely) to get another soft drink or hot pocket grows up and pays for YOUR cancer when you're 53.
Health doesn't actually follow the rules some people think it depends on. You can get into an accident or get cancer or have a child with any number of conditions even if you are a totally responsible person. People can smoke their entire lives and not get lung cancer. People can never smoke at all and die of lung cancer. In general people younger people are going to be in better shape and older people are going to have more illnesses. Illness and injury are not punishments or something good/intelligent people naturally avoid is a dangerous fantasy no matter how comforting it would be to believe they are.
When that child is 53 and dying of cancer, his bill should be paid by me?
Sorry to break this to you, but you're already paying it. Just who the hell do you think ultimately gets stuck with the bill for uninsured patients, the Tooth Fairy?
Also, what an ass you are. You are somehow suggesting that this 53 year old person doesn't deserve universal health care because of his lifestyle 40 years ago?
Your attitude is pretty much the Republican attitude: You are only concerned with yourself, and screw everybody else.
Did anyone understand McCain's explanation why health care should be a responsibility? I really couldn't get my head around it. Sure it's my responsibility to eat well, exercise and be safety concious, but I'm not sure that is what he is saying.
$5000 tax credit and go it alone to find insurance. No more bulk discounts.
mccain wants healthcare to be a personal responsibility. i believe he wants to dismantle the entitlement programs if he could. last night mccain misrepresented obama's healthcare proposal: 'mandates' and
'big government'........all obama wants to do is increase the size of the paying pool and bring down cost.
people want insurance. they can't afford it. healthcare costs increase approximately depending on what region
you live in....about 10% a yr. the current healthcare model needs a different direction. i believe hillary and
barack will take healthcare on and get something in the works.
and one that alot of Americans can relate to.
I read the Laurie Schiffren piece. She's either confused, or simply, after listening to GOP talking points and accepting them as the only answers, is incapable of thinking for herself.
Barack's plan will work. It will cover literally everyone. The key will be in the details, and the details are as follows:
1) reining in the AMA and insurance lobbies...more regulation on pricing of services...if that sounds like nationalized healthcare..well...duuuuuh...it is...and it works in every industrialized nation on this planet and it will work here. It will not reduce R&D...new products means new revenues.
2) businesses cannot be allowed to pass on costs...otherwise...the plan does not work.
3) yes...taxes will go up...but the playing field will be leveled. Upper income folks will bitch and moan that they are subsidizing poor people...well...duuuuh...here's a newsflash...that is happening anyway...hospitals cannot refuse to treat anyone and that cost of treatment is pushed back onto the insurance system anyway...with no defined premium collection to offset it. This system will define revenues and outflows, make budgeting easier and allow for the system to kept in financial balance.
This would have been a good time for McCain to throw in one of his POW stories how when he was a POW in Nam he didnt have health care.
*weep!*
Once they found out - cough cough - he told them - his father was a 4 Star Admiral - they gave him better health care then the other POWs.
McCain himself has a federal health care plan! What an f-ing hypocrite.
MCain wants to dismantle federally funded health care, employer health insurance and social security. Then, McCain and his cronies will probably make millions investing in building poor houses!
McCain wants private sector jobs to be go it alone insurance. Of course, he does not want to change is "gold plated" insurance.
Essentially turning insurance into go it alone and a company with 5-50,000 employees can't get bulk discounts. Bush did the same thing with prescription drugs - no more bulk discounts.
"And, Tom, I know that we're under time constraints, but Sen. McCain through a lot of stuff out there."
Should that be "threw a lot of stuff out there"?
I was reading this just now and that tripped me up.
Your non sequitur aside we all pay anyway. If you think the insurance companies are not gouging you then you (like millions of other Americans) have no health insurance.
Your comment is, at best, silly. You are pretending that only people who "don't deserve our help" (whatever that is supposed to mean) get sick.
Go lie down.
What he's saying is, the translation, is . . . I feel sorry for the poor bastards who are victims but it's not my responsibility!
I hate to agree with Xoites on anything, but I disagree with King's comment as well.
If playing video games and having unhealthy lifestyle disentitles you to medical care if you otherwise cannot afford it, then:
1. You only pay for poor lifestyle choices if you don't have enough money for private health care (what else is new...); and
2. More importantly, who decides if your lifestyle choice disentitles you to taxpayer assisted care? You? Me? Christian fundamentalists? Whatever the local majority decides in each state? or county? or municipality?
If I get a group together that believe being gay is an unhealthy lifestyle "choice" do we get to deny poor homosexuals access to funded health care? What if I can find a local majority of people who think being a visible minority is unhealthy? Hell, what if I can find enough people who think being a Republican is an unhealthy lifestyle choice...?
Very revealing when you stop and think about it
I know the story about his mother is very touching but was I the only one leaping for joy when he said that health care "should be a right for every American"? I really wasn't sure how he was going to answer on that and I'm glad we have a candidate who is able to see that.
he stated that. It is a right. Yes it is.
YES WE CAN!
Just keep in mind the giant corporations that have taken over medicine aren't going to lay down and say "whatever".
True.
He's going to have to overhaul the system so the insurance companies don't say to Physicians. . .
If they don't have insurance let them drop dead.
Get the insurance industry out of health care. Let doctors decide instead of some clerk at an insurance company.
Fine. Tell the insurance companies to go fuck themselves when they come crying for a bailout because their investment portfolio is in the shitter.
MaryK, it's still tied...49% to 49%
Hey! John McCain and Cindy McCain know the pain and horror of the American health care system! They had to work VERY hard to get the insurance companies to cover their elective surgery. John McCain had to insert language into an omnibus spending bill in order to get his last chin lift covered as a routine biopsy for skin cancer. And Cindy McCain had to spend $100,000 out of pocket (that's literal: she had that much cash in her pocket) for her second-to-last face-lift!
Don't mock the McCains, because they KNOW the pain of having to spend a fortune on health care! Fortunately for them, they have several fortunes. But it still hurts them to part with money!
Why didnt John McCain tell this story.
*weep!*
What he's saying is...since he was responsible enough to be shot out an admiral's cannon and then got his maverickyness shot down and parlayed his POWness into a Senate seat...he got his...for life.
The rest of us...tooo bad.
Health Care, full employment, food, air and water are all rights. We can afford it. Look at what we spend on the rich.
Let's spend some of that money on the rest of us.
Alaska, well said.
I guess he is ok with not insuring NASCAR drivers, rodeo cowboys and motocross racers.
Yeah, and while he's at it, those Americans who volunteer for the military. Talk about making a risky lifestyle choice! No health care for people who subject themselves to limbs being blown off!
While we're on that point, my fiancee, a combat veteran who served 15 months in Afghanistan in 2003-04, still doesn't have health insurance. Awesome! It's so sad how poorly America takes care of it's veterans. I think we can do better.
I don't normally nit pick about spelling errors, however it's "threw," not "through" ("but Sen. McCain through a lot of stuff out there.")
I remember hearing that tale and knowing full well that's what they insensitive dolts did.
Well catch you's later I'm starting to feel like McCain sitting at a keyboard. Babbling, avoiding work and accomplishing nothing.
No, but they may fall down any day now.
my wife had insurance through her federally funded non-profit (helping children and parents and teachers) until GW needed more money to pay for his war....funding got cut, and the wife got laid off....after her surgery for breast cancer, but before the chemo and radiation treatments.
No way she could get on MY insurance (pre-existing conditions) and no other insurance company would touch her.
It will take us YEARS to pay off the bills that stacked up...if we don't lose the farm first. Also, we don't dare let her miss a mammogram now, and we have to pay CASH for them when she gets one.
I used to be a Republican, but right now any kind of socialized or other health care that can cover my family sounds good to me.....the "free-market" system isn't working for families like ours......probably not for many of you as well.
Your story should be a rare case but sadly, it is not. It is what millions of Americans are going through and what many millions more are just a layoff away from. If you lose your insurance for any reason, you have to be the healthiest human on Earth in order for another insurance to even consider talking to you.
People are forced to just stack up the medical bills or else.
Ugh... i didn't know about that.
It's eerie, since my best friend is currently going through the same thing. She has a tumor in her jaw, and the insurance company is trying to argue, despite a signed letter from her doctor, that it's a "pre-existing condition," therefore she can't get a CT scan.
These people would rather watch a young woman die than pay for a test (and possibly, dear god... TREATMENT!) because it's in their "best financial interest" not to do so.
These people are monsters of the highest order, and there is no pit in hell hot enough to roast these bastards.
Yes, Obama's story about his mother is very moving and compelling and something that many of us can relate to, I think. I can't even get on most group health plans due to a preexisting condition, or if I can, there's a 1 year waiting period for the very illness I need the health coverage for! I'm stuck with Medicaid right now, meaning that I am not allowed to have assets or savings over $1000 and cannot earn more than $900/month. I basically have to earn poverty-level wages to receive the health care I need. What bugs me about Obama's stance is that he will not come out and in support of true national single-payer, that gives everyone the same high quality coverage regardless of employment status, financial status, resident status, etc., with no out of pocket costs and can be funded by only a 3-7% payroll tax (and of course eliminating welfare for the richest 1% of Americans). The plan Obama offers isn't good enough because it still puts different people in different categories with different levels of coverage. Haven't we learned that separate is not equal? Of course I want Obama to win if a more progressive 3rd party candidate who actually does support HR 676 can't, but personally I'm going to continue working with grassroots groups to educate people about single-payer and build the movement for it. (My local group in Chicago is www.chispan.org) If the movement grows large and strong enough, we will win single-payer.
Does McCain really have cancer of the face??
This outrageous standard qualifier is the insurance companies' way - between themselves - of playing "tag - you're it!!"
The American people lost - big-time.
*
Argh! I know! You know in Michael Moore's "SiCKO," when they're scrolling Star-Wars style a list of the medical conditions that are automatic rejections? That's one of the best scenes in the movie. I've got 3 conditions on there. And if you're lucky enough(?) to have private insurance, I read that they reject 1 out of 7 claims! They basically make their money by not allowing doctors to provide care, and by rich people buying stock in their companies. These companies really should be illegal. WHEN we finally have nationalized health care, they will be.
Typical right wing crap
"I'm sure she was a wonderful, fascinating person. But she was not a paragon of responsibility."
so she deserves nothing.....
aarrgho, I'm sorry about all your troubles.
The bottom line to all this is that there is no panacea on either side of the political spectrum.
I am as much of a free marketer as anyone else, but the fact is, and has been proven again...that the free market is INEFFICIENT and it takes a long time and is a very painful process for it to self correct itself.
Government is there to assist in that process and to protect the citizenry...not big business. No matter what happens...economy up...economy down...big business manages to make money. The little guy...like you and I...don't have the resources to ride out those troubled times.
thanx.....one question during the debate that neither answered sufficiently was whether or not they felt Health Care was a "commodity" or not. Clearly it is. The more you can afford, the better health care you receive.
The wealthiest nation on the freakin' planet and we STILL treat basic health care as a commodity!
shameful
When large corporations write the very legislation that is supposed to "regulate" their industry. Until we get to single-payor, healthcare will not be fair nor widely available.
I think i will assume that was a compliment and thank you anyway. :)
I didn't know this about his mom either (kinda embarrassed about that) but it does perfectly symbolize what's wrong with our "health" "care" "system" and that is that none of those 3 words are actually true.
If it were about "health" we'd give full, free access to doctors for *preventive* visits, not just seeing people in the ER when it's developed into full blown whatever.
If it were about "care" we wouldn't have to bankrupt people who get sick.
If it were about a "system" there would actually be something that would *include* people into the medicine they need.
Just like Big Pharm doesn't want to cure anybody (they want to treat the $ymptom$ - as long as you can pay), we need somebody who has the will to CURE the health care crisis in this country. It may not be Obama but it sure as sh*t ain't Grampa.
I worked for 25 years for the Star Tribune newspaper when I lost my job threw cut backs. I retired and got to keep my healthcare plan at the same rate as I had as a employee. Under McSlmes plan I would have not gotten that deal. I would have ended up after 25 years without any healthcare.
The biggest problem America will have implementing what we in Canada call universal health care is illustrated right here in this discussion thread -- the idea that some people "don't deserve" health care and the rest of us deserving people "shouldn't have to pay for them". In a universal health care plan, yes they do, and yes you do. It's taken us several decades in Canada to develop a mature understanding of what universal health care really means and how important it is that it be truly "universal" in its approach, so that politicians and special interest groups don't chip away at it.
Cathie...please help me understand.....all of the right-wing-conservative talking heads down here in the US bemoan your health care plan and ridicule it....
".....we don't want to end up with a health care plan like they have in CANADA for crying out loud...why do you think Canadians come down here when they need some procedure done???"
Does it work for common, every-day Canadians??
I live in Minnesota and we don't see Canadians storming the border to get healthcare down here. In fact its the other way around when it comes to buying drugs for a lot of people.
I grew up in Metro-Detroit and found that to be true, as well. My mother is a nurse in Macomb County and always clarified that misconception when people wrote off the Canadian health care system. The one exception, she said, was when someone needed a very specific kind of surgery or required experimental treatment that was only offered at an American hospital.
We do have a two-tier health care system in Canada. If want instant service and have bushels of money you just head south. The down side is that the US market which is designed to serve wealth creates a perpetual draw on Canadian health care professionals of all types. The money is frankly much better in the States. Such shortages as exist in Canada are largely due to this drain in critical specialties.
McSame (and to a lesser extent, Brokaw) was trying to make a demonstrative argument for euthanasia.
I'm bothered that an old man who's had free govt provided health care his entire life doesn't pause for a second to think that others might deserve the same RIGHT.
What exactly is it that makes him so special?
And at what level of personal wealth does an individual suddenly become worth helping? Because that seems to be his measure for everything.
There is something fundamentally wrong
Wed, 10/08/2008 - 09:11 — King of Kings (not verified)
about teenagers going home from school and playing video games all night, pausing (barely) to get another soft drink or hot pocket.
When that child is 53 and dying of cancer, his bill should be paid by me?
Go to hell.
------------------------------------------------------
I hope you don't consider providing health care for your children too. They haven't earnrd it.
Do you believe me now Trinity? He is That One.
I would think that after his family went through that experience, Obama would understand that what he is offering is NOT healthcare. Americans want universal healthcare, NOT a welfare program for insurance companies who have repeatedly proven that they don't even deserve a seat at the table. It is a dishonest misrepresentation whenever Obama call his plan "healthcare". It's health insurance subsidies. He needs to stop misrepresenting it immediately. If he wants to talk about healthcare, he needs to sign on to HR-676. Otherwise, there is practically nothing to distinguish his from John McCain's plan....the profiteering bad guys are still in control.
If we can devote trillions to wars of aggression and to bailing out criminal enterprises, all arguments about costs to finance universal, single payer healthcare become null and void. I'd rather see my tax dollars going for universal healthcare than for the evil enterprises upon which they are currently being squandered. More, placing and maintaining a parasitical middle-man structure into the equation makes the total national healthcare bill higher, not lower. And, it is delusional to think that any regulation of the industry is going to succeed; the profit motive will assure that every kind of conceivable cheating and fraud will be rampant... with new scams being invented as fast as regulations are written. It's time to end this bullshit.
I think this is the point that the questioner wanted answered and both candidates failed to answer it. To be fair, Obama would really make news if he called to Kucinich's health care plan and he doesn't want to scare anyone right now. After the election, it will be time to push, push, push on universal healthcare.
I'm sure everyone has seen a collection can at a cash register asking for help for a local person to pay surgery or any other health related bills. That's the Republican plan for the un- and underinsured. (This point is made in an ad from Larry Zamba running for Rep from Wisconsin and it's a damn good one.)
I applaud your healthy life style and wish you the best, however you can't predict when your next accident will be. A catastrophic accident can occur to anyone and you won't see it coming. I assume you have health insurance because of your confidence in your future. Be aware that many people with insurance have found out the hard way that they are not as fully covered as they thought.
I find it difficult to understand how you can quantify health in terms of tax breaks. If for instance we did have universal health care and we all had access to doctors don't you think the general health of all of us would be improved? Preventative health care would be accessible and the electric scooters you detest would probably not be as prevalent.
I have had many discussions over the past few months with people who are republicans. What I have discovered is that when you cut through all of the crap and idealistic talk (oh, I am a republican because I don't believe in big government)the majority of republicans can be bolied down to two statements: I don't care about other people.As long as I've got mine!
People who think that they aren't already paying for other people's health care are delusional. You pay. You pay at a higher rate, and you pay for more expensive services than you would if you were straight out subsidising insurance.
Instead of people going to a walk-in clinic for an earache or sore throat, they are accessing an ER at 3 or 4 times the price, not to mention the hogging of resources. Instead of prevention and well care, we have people who wait too long to be seen when they are having a problem, who end up sicker and in need of more services.
So, don't care about other people. You will still pay for them.
So true.
"You're sick and you have NO money? You should be ashamed!" Man, I hate these selfish fucks.
For real.
Where's the humanity? The so-called Christian-values? Help your fellow man, etc.
And if not humanity, how about critical thinking skills? When will people realize that we ALL benefit from having everyone covered?
exactly......well said. when people use healthcare services and can't pay the members of the paying pool absorb that costs. there are several variables for the increase in healthcare. i still one of the reasons is
the influx of cheap labor into this country. these people sometimes work in substandard conditions and live
in large groups in homes/apts. they often have larger families and can't afford healthcare. so they use the
local public/private services. the burden is often absorbed by the tax payers and the paying pool. some
u.s. corporations want to compete with china. they do that with cheap labor with NO benefits. allow the public
to take the burden. this extra cost is essentially a TAX on the public. it's one of the many reasons corporations
move or do some of their manufacturing in china...they have endless cheap labor, much less regulation and
NATIONALIZED healthcare.
I'm Australian, forgive me if I don't understand the US health care system, but do you guys have to PAY for mammograms? All mammograms are free in Australia as a matter of public health. If you don't have private health care you can be a public patient in hospital and pay nothing.
Whoever wins the election will inherit a recession, I think if there is a Bush third term there will be world panic. How can the American public want to continue channelling billions into the Iraq War above everything else?
How indecent for McPrincipalSkinner to call Obama that one, it's a wonder he didn't call him 'boy'. The only thing I'll miss are SNL skits. Thank god for Tina Fey.
I'm bummed at the moment as the Australian dollar has slipped from 83 US cents last Friday to 65 US cents down from 97 cents a few months ago. Got to stay away from USebay.
"How can the American public want to continue channelling (sic) billions into the Iraq War above everything else?"
Honestly, most of us don't. Remember many Americans were duped (aka lied to) into supporting the war in the first place because "THEY HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION" and "THIS IS THE COUNTRY HARBORING THOSE WHO BOMBED OUR GREAT NATION" etc etc.
Since 2003, our public opinion of the war has plummeted as some of us grew more informed.
On a side note, I agree I'll ALMOST miss the brilliant SNL skits. Tina Fey certainly is something amazing.
Yes! We have to pay for everything! In America, "entitlements" is a bad word! There are some ways to access free or low-cost care, but you better not have a tumor growing because you will wait days, months, years to access it. The waiting list for mammograms at Cook County Hospital in Chicago, the public hospital, is at about 8000 now. I have one friend who is an emergency room nurse there and another who is a social worker. It's killing people, this lack of a health care system. 22,000 people/year die due to lack of health insurance, and many more from denials of claims (procedures, treatments, tests) by insurance companies. We've had about 3 protests outside insurance companies in Chicago in the last 6 months. One was centered around a man who died of cancer when his insurance co. denied him treatment. The last one I went to, an 18 year old spoke (well, through someone translating from Spanish to English for him) about how the All Kids health program wasn't going to pay for the kidney transplant he needed to save his life because he had turned 18 and because his parents were not legal to work here and got deported. It took a bunch of us screaming and protesting outside U of I hospital and eventually he got the transplant. It is a murderous and victimizing system we have. More than half of bankruptcies now are due to medical issues, and people actually lose their homes here because of medical debt!
Yes, my wife just had one the other day, but our healthcare paid for it. We are lucky, or both educated with desirable job skills, so we can choose employers that offer this benefit. Not everyone can. I don't know what other people do that don't have health care. I don't ask people about their business, but I do know that many (statistically) don't have any and I can't imagine how they could pay for medical services out of pocket. Its not right, its like food, a basic need.
Hey, by the way, I think I bought a CD from you on eBay, I never got it you cheeky down-underer!
But don't forget that even if your health insurance paid for it, really, you still paid for it. Even if you don't have to contribute any cash to the cost of your premium, you would get paid more by your employer if your employer was not paying for your health insurance. When we get hired, our total cost to the company is figured into the equation, including any benefits that we receive from them. And that's another thing! I know many people, self included, who have taken jobs they disliked or even hated or stayed in them only because they needed the health insurance. We'd have lots more freedom as workers if our health coverage wasn't connected to our employment.
i have decided to have my wife and i here in indiana will vote for obama , i am not happy with his votes on fisa ect and his views on afganistan, but since his actions will not affect me much longer its your country now, if your willing to take a chance on him fine ! hope he works out for you, id have been happyer with kucinich but i guess its obama biden 08!
"McCain through (sic) a lot of stuff out there."
Threw
mccain doesn't seem to be quite on the money about his own 5,000 dollar okay we gave you some money now go away with your problems plan - this paragraph buried in an NPR fact check style article on the debate, funny presented as though both candidates were corrected, but reading the article, it's really mccain who seems to keep coming up busted:
"During the debate, McCain said that he'd give $5,000 to every American as a refundable tax credit on health insurance. David Welna, who covers Congress for NPR, said that under McCain's plan, it's actually $2,500 per person or $5,000 per household. "Small point," Welna said, "but he doesn't seem to remember this key distinction."
full article here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?...
incidentally obama spoke of it but didn't really hammer it home as much as he could have, the fact that a little extra money won't do anything about the fact that insurers only insure healthy people, if you're sick or have any preexisting condition, you don't "qualify" for health insurance. if you are insured but get sick, god help you if you lose your job or happen to miss any premium or requirement, because then they'll dump you.
no wonder mccain likes private health insurance, that's because the only thing they insure is a state of mind.
oh, btw, mcpalyin doesn't need to meet with any journalists any more, turns out, she can see the future from here.
The health insurance monopoly has for decades created smaller and smaller pools of coverage in an effort to reduce the coverage and increase their premiums. For those that do not have coverage through their employment, this has made insurance absolutely unaffordable. For those who do, that coverage is increasingly limited – either by (many false) pre-existing conditions, increased co-payment, or lack of coverage altogether for dental, pregnancy, cancer, etc.
They spend 100s of millions to fight claims, regularly cut coverage, and increase health care costs across the board. Very few benefit from health care coverage anymore, and the costs are sending thousands PER DAY into bankruptcy.
The cure for this is not to give a ridiculous “tax-credits” to purchase additional unaffordable health-care coverage, but a universal coverage for all. Whether it be in the form of government paid health-care, single payer, or shared pool, health-care should be readily available and affordable to all.
The health-care insurance monopolies have crippled too many families. They are a drain on the economy, and a health-risk to all Americans. They’ve become filthy-rich behemoths on the backs people and providers alike. This needs to stop. I applaud Obama’s priorities when he says #1 Energy, and #2 Health-Care.
The existing health-care infrastructure IS a big pile of #2 – and is in need of an enema.
Beautifully put Taarak.
The only thing I can add to your comment is: even if you ignore the price of buying into a policy there is simply no guarantee that they will pay out if you ever need expensive treatment.
As far as I'm concerned the US health care is system is to health care as the US financial system is to banking. Both claim to be "free market" but are actually unregulated pyramid schemes. Risk is socialized - profits privatized. Lots of suckers pay into it - few ever get anything out of it.
Basically, if you want to have access to "the best health-care in the world" you better have enough canes in you collection to pay for cancer treatment out-of-pocket. Otherwise expect to do as Obama's mother did: die arguing with a bureaucrat who understands he can wait you out.
My brother's been in the mental health system of our state for over two years. At the tax payer's expense. He's going to be there for several more years probably, but he just qualified for SS disability. This happened when he lost his job and his health care - tried to treat his condition himself and became depressed with psychosis - he started hearing voices.
His stays in one facility after another - doctor visits, medication, therapy, etc. - have cost the rest of us a bundle.
When people don't have health care - you and I pay anyway.
BTW -- grammatical error in second paragraph of Obama's commentary. "Through" should be "threw" ~~
*
So...is it...After McCain's performance last nite I threw up....or...After McCain's performance last nite I through up? ; 0 )
[Quit spamming this blog-Sitemonitor]
"fear the black man" message to the wrong place, Rob. If I feel the need to worry about things, one look at McPalin get's it done.
wait a minute...what are you saying???....Obama is BLACK???!!!
right...next you're gonna try and tell me McCain was a POW in Viet Nam or something like that....sheesh
I have no clue what was supposed to sound "Un American" about any of the OPs statements, nor do I understand what is wrong with a statement that does sound "Un American" anyway... "That one" (haha! bad joke, I know) poster definitely chose the wrong audience.
scared shitless. man, really, you are so petrified. Now you know how 49.9% of us (50.1% in 2000) have felt for the last eight years. many of us have hated Bush. I'd get up in the morning and feel good for 2.1 seconds, and then remember, "oh yeah, we're in a bullshit war and it will destroy our country". And, the result justifies exactly the fears and anger we had (HAVE) towards Bush. No McCain (and that twit Palen) can say all they want about not looking at the past and playing the blame game, but he cannot run from it. He is a Republican and member of good standing of the Republican Party (or as you so arrogantly call it, "The Party") so we do not see McCain as anything other than another water carrier for THE Party.
Dr. Phil says, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I agree and do not believe that McCain can function outside of the party's interests, witness the "selection" of Palin, by who? McCain? or The party? He'd only met her once or twice before. Hardly a soul mate selection. Hell, he could have done better on VPMatch.com.
So you reap what you sow, and you've been sowing crap for a long time, time to enjoy the harvest and eat it.
The politicians keep lying to the public, saying that America is the most wealthy nation in the world.
Only if you ignore the debt.
That's like saying, I've met this loan shark, and he gave me a million dollars. Now I'm rich, and I'm a millionaire!
No you're not. You're in debt up to your eyeballs with no way out.
what does it matter
the repugs destroyed the economy so that no programs can be instituted for the next 20 years
that was the plan all along
The citizens of the United States can relate to Barack because of these comments. He represents us because he can relate to the average taxpayers. Another comment he made was a reference to the cost of a gallon of gas in the area. Obama drives an Escape hybrid (their only car) while McCain drives a Cadillac STS (one of many vehicles the McCains own). Joe Biden is also relatable and took this tool away from Sarah Palin in the VP debate.
This is the biggest reason Obama will be the next President of the United States. If the person you vote for can relate to your circumstances, he or she stands the best chance to represent you and the challenges that affect your life.
I was displaced from a job a year ago and took another position with a smaller employer. They can't afford to offer healthcare because the cost is too expensive. I now pay aprox $9500./yr for coverage. Combine the increase in healthcare with the increase in fuel for my vehicle and the cut in pay I received and I'm now in the same position as a lot of my friends. McCain can not relate to this on any level. It is time for change and John McCain just does not represent change.
Rob in Florida wrote:
"* If you have never forwarded an e-mail, now is the time to Do so!!! We CANNOT have someone with this type of mentality running our GREAT nation!! I don't care whether you a Democrat or a Conservative. We CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of character in a President".
"We CANNOT turn ourselves over to this type of "character"? Do you mean because he's BLACK?
Rob, what are you so afraid of? He has lived his life as a black man. Diversity is what made our country great! Since when has "Muslim" only meant "terror"?
This fear tactic the neocons have melted your ability to think freely.
The Bush family has strong connections to the Bin Laden family. Was your mindset of GWB that of a supporter of terrorists?
Apparently, you are not black and you don't know much about the Muslim faith.
Health care is not a right nor a responsibility; it is a smart investment in productivity and social well-being.
A workforce that has to worry about:
1) coverage
2) underinsurance
3) financial wiped-out by catastrophic disease
4) constant erosion of purchasing power because ever increasing deductibles and copays are eating disposable income
CANNOT be as productive and focused than a workforce free of these worries. Why is it that such a simple, common sense concept isn't part of the health care debate is beyond me. BTW, this also impact competitiveness within the USA and against international competition.
Likewise, it is socially inconceivable that private actors operate in the health care sector with a business model that is based on an unsolvable conflict of interest. Insurance make more money by raising premiums AND minimizing outlays a.k.a. denying coverage. Can someone explain to me what is so freaking AWESOME with that paradigm? When 15 cents (over the 38 cents in administration and profits) on every HC dollar in premium is dedicated to screening customers a.k.a. "how to deny coverage?" And people are satisfied with such a model that is out there to try to avoid giving them services? WTF??
After 11 years in this country, I still can't fathom why health care is such a blind spot in the collective American psyche.
Health care is STILL about the economy STUPID!!
Oddly enough, there is more profit to be made by letting people die of prolonged preventable diseases than by collectively ptacticing preventative medicine. Capitalism is a dysfunctional economic model.
His mother... My God, I had no idea. And so young...
Lisa Schiffren is a heartless bitch. His mother was irresponsible? Does Schiffren have access to Mrs. Obama's financial records? Can she honestly make the same generalization for countless others like Obama's poor mother?...
Karma's a bitch, and her callousness will come back to haunt her.
... is the fact that if McCain was to be kicked out of his current federally-funded health care, he would be most likely denied coverage by most (if not all) insurance plans. After all, his cancer is a pre-existing condition and god knows that the health care in American ain't about our health care, but THEIR profits.
At the end of the day, people who are against any form of universal health care as a right... are pretty much making the case that corporate profit is a right. Looking at the fact that the Wallstreet bailout passed in a record amount (and record low time) where as we are yet to see the same level of expediency applied to the health care crisis, I guess I am right on that assessment.
I am sure these are the same pricks who go to their mega churches and masturbate mentally about how great Christians they are...
You've brought your
Wed, 10/08/2008 - 11:00 — Blue Lensman
Rob in Florida has the exact same comments word-for-word on the Hannity thread, and I suspect others.
He's just a troll, and his party knows they backed a loser and garbage like this is all they have left.
I would suggest stop going to Florida if you keep getting Robbed there.
)O(
Wed, 10/08/2008 - 10:52 — WR (not verified)
You could've mentioned as well that boosh's grandfather prescott was a Nazi sympathizer who tried to help overthrow the US government and install a fascist dictatorship.
)O(
What bothers me is at first Obama stated his mother had NO health insurance and, with two adult children, was worried during the last part of her life about her bills. First of all, her bills would be cancelled by the companies because there is no spouse to pay them, or they would be paid out of a lien of her home. Secondly, her son, Barack was 34, a Magna Cum Laude Grad at from Harvard, a practicing attorney at a Chicago law firm and an Associate Attorney at the Chicago Law School, teaching constitutional law. Don't tell me for a minute, he couldn't counsel her on the bills (since there was nobody legally responsible for her debts) or pay them himself.
Then last night during the date, voila!!!!! Mom did have insurance but was arguing with insurance companies over their insistence it was a pre-existing situation.
Obama's story changed..........I can't buy into his story because of the circumstances which would have occurred. He's a con man.
How is he a Con man? When Obama arrived in Chicago he was not rich (although very educated), he was driving a broke-down assed car. His riches came way later (after his books). Ovarian Cancer teatment ain't as cheap as you apparently think it is. In his stories he was at his mom's bedside alot (helping out any way he could). Point being her insurance was'nt pay up because she was sick...THAT'S THE CON.
How is he a Con man? When Obama arrived in Chicago he was not rich (although very educated), he was driving a broke-down assed car. His riches came way later (after his books). Ovarian Cancer teatment ain't as cheap as you apparently think it is. In his stories he was at his mom's bedside alot (helping out any way he could). Point being her insurance was'nt going to pay up because she was sick...THAT'S THE CON.
You are being conned...by McSpain/Plain and the neoCONs in the GOP.
One of the best moments of the "debate" Tuesday night.
Bring it home, O!
And the morons were thinking ...
"Is that his muslum mother... or was that his black mother?? What if she was both? Should I feel bad for her?... "
Sad but true. Today I talked to several people who somewho brought this up thinking his mother was a muslum and/or black, and somehow even if either of these were true these people wanted to base some arguement on it.
Funny and Smart political T's and such-
http://www.showyourthoughts.com
There was an earlier comment on here, from King of Kings I believe, addressing the issue that those who are healthy will pay the medical bills of those who choose unhealthy lifestyles. I can see that view, but it is very narrow-minded. King of Kings, I would suggest, has never endured tragedy. It can be sudden, and it can be cruel. Beyond that, the point is missed by such small-minded people. Ultimately, a healthy country has healthy workers. These healthy workers give life to the country, which leads to a healthy economy. In no way is it beneficial to the US to have their citizens in hospital arguing with insurance companies about how their bill will be paid. With proper coverage from the beginning it is very likely that these people wouldn't have ended up in hospital (also, they would be working longer). They would have gone to a doctor sooner and had the issue addressed sooner. With the current American system, they avoid the doctor, until a rush to the hospital is necessary, and, in turn, take up a bed that could have been used by those with sudden tragedies. The only reason that someone wouldn't support universal health care is because they are ignorant and small-minded, and only care about themselves (which would change when tragedy arrives to them).
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