Does Obama's election mean we're a center-left country?
By John Amato Tuesday Dec 02, 2008 11:00amMy last AOL Hot Seat poll was in response to the Republican talking points generated by the John Meacham's from the Village who are trying to make the case that America is a center-right nation.
The vote is very even at this point which is pretty amazing considering the AOL readership leans much more to the right.
Please click here and vote...
What is really cool about the AOL Hot Seat is that you can get a state by state break down just by taking your mouse and clicking on any state after you vote. Anyway, it's for fun and for free....
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We are not center right.
John, don't make me come over there. All this right center, left center talk is making me crazy. ;)
for me it's too early to tell. this is a very unique time in our history.
What if you think that both contentions are wrong and that the nation waffles between center-left and center-right depending how the wind is blowing?
(pun intended)
I would say that no, we are not a center-left country.
Given that so far, Obama has populated his cabinet mostly with center-right peeps, he seems to think also that we are not a center-left country.
With all due respect to PoP (and others tired of this meme)...
Center right or center left imply measurement against something - some objective standard - either internal or external. No one has suggested an appropriate internal measure. Externally, US politics are generally compared either to that of Western European countries or at least to politics in other industrialized democracies.
On this scale, the US is definitely centre right. It certainly isn't progressive.
Conservative political parties in Europe are roughly equivalent to moderate Democrats. Eurpoean conservatives (by and large) accept greater market regulation, more social spending, universal health insurance and less religion mixed with politics.
In the US, approximately 47% of the electorate voted for "more of the same" conservative policies. Many Blue Dog Democrats and conservative independents are more conservative than right wing Europeans. This country is definitely centre right. We are now on the right course, but the trip will be measured by incremental steps.
Remember the guns sales indicator. Hey Martha, the country is going to hell, so we'd better hunker down at the armory. Check the most Republican states: dead even or Yes. They are measuring fear, not support or reality assessment. Similar to the racist polls: "Are opportunities for blacks better than ever?" gets an affirmative from closet KKKers every time!
I would just like to see the country become smart thinkers for a change. The election gave me hope that might be happening. The people might be getting it, but the media sure does hope not. If the people begin thinking for themselves, what will the talking heads talk about and who will listen? Labels are for jars, boxes and bottles.
are you talking socially? economically? foreign policy-wise?
i think the answer would depend on which you are talking about. and, in that light, people will vary. they might be open to gay marriage, but also identify with neoliberalism, and other such combos.
what would be interesting is to quiz people on their economic/foreign policy knowledge and then see just where they fall in the political spectrum.
but, really, who decides what/where the center is? america, currently, is led around its nose by corporate power--and they have been influencing american perceptions for decades, moving it to the right. consider just where richard nixon would fit in today's political spectrum.
personally, i think individuals on many issues lean left (universal healthcare, social security, medicare/medicaid, collective bargaining, etc.). but the right has done a great job using wedge issues to conquer and divide.
(note: meacham is a thumbdick)
...perhaps we're a center field country! Hot dogs, popcorn and warm, flat beer for everyone!
I think the "center-righters" are dead wrong. America spoke quite clearly on November 4th.
there's a lot of haters on that site.
And they're spewing the same, tired bilge from their mouths, too. They need to shut their yap. You all tried it their way, and saw the result.
The USA is not a centre-left country. Why? Because the Democratic Party is substantially to the right of all the other left wing parties in the world.
The USA is a far right country, struggling to get to centre right.
Obama is to the right of CONSERVATIVE Canadian PM Harper.
After all the idiocy that has gone down in the past 8 years, 47% of the country STILL voted for John McCain. If he hadn't selected Governor Dumb Bunny for veep, I would submit that he may well have won the election, and half of you would be looking to move to Canada and New Zealand ASAP, while the rest would finally realise the second amendment cuts both ways...
You people have a LONG way to go before you get to centre right. Centre left? Probably never at the rate you're going and the complete fantasy world (what passes for) the left lives in.
Yup. Nailed squarely on the head. This is still the nation the pilgrims founded, and will stay that way even in the face of all the abject failures the right has brought us. To paraphrase Chris Rock, "Neocons love not to know."
OK you got me there. I guess I was thinking in American terms, not world terms. But it is a (minor) step in the correct direction. So thanks for being a downer! :)
Our political parties are right and far right. That doesn't mean the American people are. Why do you think people don't vote and most of us think our government doesn't give a fuck about us? Because we as a people are center left and we can't find a fucking national political party that represents us. We as a people are center left; as major political parties, we have right and far right. A real distinction to be made.
I still see only tiny differences in the two parties in this country. They put on a good show during campaigns but in private and at work they are all buddies. Dont think for a second that Clinton and Obama really disliked each other. Or Obama and McCain for that matter. They have the same corproations donating to their campaigns and work with the same lobbyist. The myth that Obama changed the rules by gettting most of his money from small donor like you and me is just that, a myth. A ncie one made up to make him look more home grown, just like us kind of guy. His PR people are amazing.
Closer to Gandhi. Everyone else including Obama is right of center and authoritarian. Obama has pulled center right and right right authoritarians into his admin.
The myth is that there are really any left of center politicians at all. I could only come up with one. The whole political system in the US is right of center and authoritarian, always has been.
i believe OBAMA is showing us the needed strategy to get positive governing. governing with less division and
"labels". it's difficult for people to rid of labels. this is a time for common sense compromise. the
right in my opinion often likes to blame the government for everything. i'm in agreement with obama i'm
neither for large or small government.........i'm for efficient government. now that the government is so
involved with "bailout(s)", there will be opposition to government especially the right unless of course they personally need "bailout" help.
A "Pretty Even" vote?!? I just looked at it. It is about as "pretty even" as the election. A landslide is more apt...saying we are NOT center left. Those AOL things are so bogus anyway, those REDnecks vote and vote and vote on their issue as if it were really important, then post the most venomous crap possible on the message boards. I have AOL and am considering dropping it simply because of the bad reporting, poor English and most of all, the ignorance they allow on their boards.
John, I voted "we always were" as we never were center right, it's always been center left, or way laft!
The poll isn't close as if you add the always were to the center lefters there is a whopping majority saying the "center right" meme is center WRONG!
Right. To color most of the map claiming it's center-right is higly misleading. A big statistics FAIL to these bozos.
adding to what I said. 45 + 16 is 61.
So 61% saying left to center left as opposed to 39% saying still lean to the right (well maybe I do if I am drunk off my keister and am falling over!) Is saying we're lefties now, not right wing hawks!
at the moment it is:
55% - yes, center left
45% - no, not center left
and this from AOLwingnuts...
You're an AOL subscriber? Does that mean you still have dial-up? And still paying over $20 for it? That's how I think of AOL. It's pretty rare to run into a subscriber these days.
By the way, for me the moment this country jumped the shark financially was when AOL bought Time Warner. They called it a merger at the time, but AOL had the upper hand in the deal. When a 5 year old company with almost no assets or profits, and a business model that was already outdated, was able to buy one of the oldest and largest media companies in the world, with vast, global assets, the train had come off the tracks.
It's a landslide saying we are center left. 40% say we are NOW, 18% say we ALWAYS were. That means 58% say we are center left. How is that a landslide saying we are NOT center left?
Compared with almost any State in Western Europe (conventionally understood--the EU, mainly) we're only a short step away from toppling into fascistic theocracy, all the pretensions of our flaccid 'left' notwithstanding.
Compared to, oh, Zimbabwe, or Myanmar/Burma, we're paragons of liberalism, the bright light of the political firmament.
The "center" of USer POLITICS (maybe not the population) is further right than "center-right" politics in other advanced nations.
In other countries, there seems to be a somewhat smaller disconnect between the politics of the people and those of their representatives. But they have more choices among parties to align themselves with parties that really represent their interests.
In France, the wacktards can flock around LePen, for example.
Interestingly, I read the other day of another remarkable breakthrough on the frontier of race relations: an ethnic Turk has was named the leader of Germany's Green party, one of the most powerful Green parties in Europe.
Compared to the CCTV system used for policing in the UK, or the UK's laws concerning censorship, libel and slander?
Compared to the Irish or Polish laws concerning abortion?
Don't get me started with the attitudes towards immigrants all over Europe....
Admittedly, Europe tends to be much more liberal concerning labor rights and healthcare. Europe isn't nearly as religious as the US, and it follows that Europeans have fewer issues concerning sexuality. Europeans tend to be more open to regulating business (but don't mention banking regulation in Switzerland).
Sorry, but it's an apples/oranges comparison.
this will be an ongoing theme during Obama yrs. there are interests/groups/demographics that want a title/label. it creates opposition/division. differences that give meaning to belonging to a group/under a label. this was a very effective strategy by the (R) to win elections. there are people and interests that don't want us to talk and compromise. this compromise and working together blurs their identity and flaws their self-deception. the (R) culture club that voted for mccain/Palin are still in shock. they will try to find fault and apply labels..........perpetual politicization.
They want there to be team names so they can compete. That's just the problem, there has been too much competition and not enough unity to overcome our problems nationwide.
'we the people..........' can have our own version of too big to fail. there are special interests that want that division otherwise the people (usually low and middle class) are a powerful foe if united. this was part of Obama's message. this country does NOT belong to 5% of the population although it's basically been that way the last 8 yrs.
If you can give everyone a common goal that will have mutual benefits, most people will come together. This financial melt down may be that goal. If Obama can show Americans that if we all work together and yes, sacrifice together, we may be able to dig ourselves out of this mess he may be able to remove the "labels".
to compromise.
Talk of compromise is very heart-warming and seasonal, like pumpkin pie cooling in a pie-safe, and we're all just sitting around drinking egg-nog and working things out in a fraternal and honorable way.
Please give me a list, that is, of the names of GOPukes whom you trust absolutely to negotiate in good faith; tell me with whom those compromises are to be negotiated.
And for what you'll hold out from your opponents?
What do you/we/i get for what you're willing to give up?
I believe in compromise. But you cannot compromise with folks who want to kill you, shut you out/up. And I NEVER enter a negotiation already ready to give up anything without a fight.
On election day here in Chicago, I loved when Obama spoke to those who didn't vote for him saying "I'll be your President too."
Obama won't restrict himself to imaginary lines, catagories or catch phrases.
Labels bad! Why did you do this? :(
America is America. And that is what it is.
The US doesn't even have universal healthcare. Stop kidding yourselves.
The US is a right wing nation. Obama's election just means a slight tilt to the left for a still right wing country.
Compare yourselves to other western democracies and you will find the US very much on the right side of the fence.
we are center left socially, as in abortion rights, and center right idiologicaly, as in rush to war in iraq.
I think it's pretty obvious that the citizenry is center-left. But the GOP talkingheads are correct that the government is center-right and the media is right. Now if only they could recognize that the Republican party has steered so far far right that they're going over a cliff...
The comments on that AOL page are downright scary... seriously..
Anyway the numbers are via AOL--
57% yes..
43% no..
The point is, this country is mostly center. And we have as much substance and wherewithal as the center of a donut.
As a Canadian I had to vote no. From where I stand you are way far right.
People walking around the streets have liberal ideas, but in politics you're dictionary example right. The war on drugs, religion, abortion, gay rights, the military, capital punishment, your prisons, security issues, wiretapping, and so on.
Under Bush you were nearing Fascism, so you're pulling way from that, but still 80% right.
In most democracies in the world, the democrats would be called conservatives, and the republicans would be called fascists.
The US doesn't have a left wing in the traditional sense. Maybe if you mean in the US's sense of "left" and "right", but then, the US's view of the world has always been skewed.
This vote isn't even close. You've got 58% who say we are now or always have been a center-left country. That's a landslide.
When you add the two responses that CLEARLY indicate that we are now or have ALWAYS been a center left country the responses are overwhelmingly YES. I guess the author is discounting those of us who believe that we have always been a center left country due to our left leaning biases.
To get Bush elected, the Republicans had to resort to stolen elections by means of voter disenfranchisement, altered voting machine software, outright fraud and many other methods that we probably will never uncover. A large portion of Democratic voters have been pretty consistent in not exercising their right to vote in the past. I feel that this changed in getting President-elect Obama into office. But I worry that many who voted for him this time around will fail us next time around.
The numbers speak for themselves in that the U.S. is undoubtedly a center-left country and always has been. The progressive principle is what drove the genius of our Constitution and caused the people who decided that they wanted to elect their own government when our government was first formed. It was quite different then compared to what we have now and that was also the intention. This has been accomplished without changing the basic tenets of the original idea.
In future elections we need to continue to ratchet up the effort to make sure that we get the young, the minorities and the middle class in general out to vote. If that can be accomplished the results will certainly show that the U.S. is made up of mostly the young, minorities and middle class people.
European and Canadian comparisons don't work as liberalism there is defined by socialism, liberalism in the US is defined by the democratic party. Which is more liberal is debatable, but generally people recognize both as being on the "left". Traditionally the country is known worldwide as the leading liberal country that brought democracy into fashion as well as progressive ideas born here over many decades. So the country is liberal, or "left" and always has been, even the conservatives are liberal if you look at things historically.
I was educated overseas for a few years, most of my colleagues knew the date and stages of the French revolution. Not a single one would be able to tell me the exact date of the American revolution. That all changed with the movie "Independence Day" though, yet ask for the year... and sure enough you will draw blanks.
There is no left in this country. And yet, we are such a "liberal" nation that in 2008, on a presidential election... the term "socialist" was used as an accusation/insult. Yeah, liberal my ass...
How many of these voters have read books as the, "Shock Doctrine" and still think were a center right nation?
With people being shoved into into the far right. It is hard to see the center let alone the left of center.
If the nation can return to the center. Then it may be possible to see left of center.
I do not understand how right leaning voters could think we are right of center after they screamed Obama was "the most liberal Senator" but still elected all the same......
I can't wait for Obama nominations for positions in the judiciary around the country to make their way through Congress. The work the Republicans have been doing since 1994 to stop the placement of qualified candidates nominated by Clinton or to rubber-stamp nominations by Bush -- that could be reversed quickly. I don't think the Republicans could filibuster every one of them. I'm tired of these pro-business, pro-Executive Branch decisions.
If you count the "We always were", then you have a big win for saying that we have always been center-left, or that we are now...which means as to right now, most people are saying we are a center-left nation. I wish that option wasn't there. It throws it off-balance to the right. Damn me for voting that.
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