Tom Matzzie defends President Obama speaking at Notre Dame
By John Amato Monday Apr 06, 2009 1:00pmI was flipping through the cable TV dial Saturday and came across the latest in religious right Faux outrage. Tom Matzzie was debating a chap from yet another disgruntled right wing group and his outrage was over President Obama being asked to speak at Notre Dame. He's so upset that Notre Dame would ask President Obama to speak there. Isn't it funny that these same people had no problem when France's President Sarkozy received an honorary award by the Vatican and the Pope even though he's pro-choice? Their hypocrisy knows no limits.
Tom Matzzie joins us on C&L and writes about his appearance and the phony meme.
Tom Matzzie:
Yes, I went on FOX--but I did it to support Notre Dame.
Over the last few weeks some self-appointed watchdogs of Catholic colleges and universities have taken after the University of Notre Dame for inviting Barack Obama to address the commencement of graduating seniors this Spring. I am an alumnus of Notre Dame and
co-founder of www.wesupportnotredame.org. I want on FOX--something I have a general policy of not doing--because I wanted to stand up to
these extremists attacking Notre Dame.The argument the Right is making is that Notre Dame shouldn't host
Barack Obama, the president of the United States, because he is pro-choice even while the president has pledged to implement policies that will reduce the need for abortion. You know, family planning, support for adoption, support for single moms...progressive stuff. One point I brought up, which hasn't been in the mainstream, is that the Vatican in the person of Pope Benedict gave an honorary title--an award--to the pro-choice president of France, Nicholas Sarkozy, in December 2007.Sarkozy visited Pope Benedict XVI on 20 December 2007, and formally received the title of Honorary Chanoine of the Basilica of St. John Lateran...
Here is a photo of Sarkozy and the pope together--its worth passing around.
The groups attacking Notre Dame are an extremists fringe of Catholics--backed mostly by Religious Right Evangelical Protestant groups.
Does Tom mean they aren't even Catholics? What a shock. And as C&Lers know, I grew up a Catholic so I say, good for Notre Dame.
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can blow me, i don't care what the issue is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7oGGP0BWYE&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7oGGP0BWYE&fe...
hypocrites.
they cannot help themselves. they are what they are.
the reichwingnuttia are in a frenzy
because we now have a president who
is intelligent, articulate and personable,
unlike bush who likes to read popup books,
stumbles on polysyllabic words and snarled
at anyone who didn't kiss his ass.
another note...
why does anyone listen to these
stupid c@cks#ckers at fox? a panel
of rotting carrots have higher IQ's.
And talking points. Most liberal. Most pro abortion. Radical. Blah, blah, blah.
Wasn't Tom M. from MoveOn?
In the nation the pope runs (Vatican City is a country) it is OK to hump 12 year olds.
That's the age of consent at the heart of Catholicism.
12.
Please tell us the rest of your morals, Mr Pope.
Maybe Obama can appease them by molesting some small children while he is there. They don't seem to have too much of a problem with people who do that.
The anchor admitted that this is manufactured outrage.
Matzzie said the critics are few and on the fringes. Then the anchor says she's been reporting the story for over a week and now wider opposition is building.
Right! Manufactured, bullshit, Limbot "outrage".
Hypocrisy and religion are like chocolate and peanut butter.
What are all those weird ingredients I've been seeing in my Reese's lately?
Who put the marshmallow cream in there? Was that you Rush? Sean?
But the former are WAY less palatable!
On a side note, I believe abortion does end a life, but I am still pro-choice.
You see, I also believe that each sperm and egg contains a half-soul. And each time you loose or don't use a sperm or an eggy, you are ending a half soul's chance to be somebody.
How's that for complicating the issue?
Keep your hands where we can see 'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8
This is my first venture into a predominantly Leftist website(perhaps totally left until I decided to post - unlike Fox News where both sides of an issue are debated). I do support having Obama speak at Notre Dame. "Know thine enemy" is always the best way to gain the knowledge needed to address those issues with which you do not agree. I consider myself an independent. I agree with Pro Choice that is limited to the first trimester. I disagree with a ban on firearms. I agree with adult stem cell research, but disagree with embryonic stem cell research. So far, it seems most of you post only to see who can be the most profane and obscene, while mocking those who are interested in serious discourse. Who cares, right?
We watched the same clip, my friend. Is manufactured outrage, serious discourse? The only difference between that Fox "reporter" and Stephen Colbert is that she apparently takes herself seriously.
Where?
I do not see one comment on this thread that meets either criteria.
edit-Whoops, missed the first one. Oh well, I agree with him, nonetheless.
The only thing I see which I find obscene is you saying the President of the United States is your enemy. That, to me, my friend, is obscene.
If you are 'put off' by our posts here - why bother?? But if you stay and read the posts over a period of time, you will learn.
And, by the way, what could be more obscene and profane than the abuse of young boys, or the degradation of women, or the promotion of war????
Why be so concerned about the unborn - what about those 18-yr-olds??
Independent of what? I laugh at people when they tell me they are "independent", talking with them further they stand on one side or the other and more often than not they turn out to be former repugs. Somehow they changed because they don't want to be tied to the shrub.
Or the people like Bloomberg who say we have to stop the "partisan politics" on both sides. Ignoring that on one side you have the democrats bending over backward to accomodate the right while on the other hand you had the neocons destroying the constitution and corrupting the political process in ways the republic has never seen before.
That was meant to be ironic right?
Had to be. Couldn't be that blinkered.
Could he?
Why exactly? These embryonic stem cells that are used for research get destroyed otherwise. Why is somehow less moral to use them for research than to incinerate them or flush them down into the sewer system?
for letting us know your opinions on all those issues. The enlightenment is intense. My soul is refreshed.
I shall now go forth, purified in the light of your Right and Holy Wisdom.
would not start with an attempt to claim that Fox News looks at both sides of issues. I cannot understand how anyone can see what you see and can only assume you engage in wishful thinking most of your half-awake moments. It's time to wake up and face reality.
A prime example of hit and run posting. I might be wrong, but I doubt we'll ever see ettucat in here again.
I was smiling from ear to ear at Tom Mattzie's putdown of that other guy. There is no spokesgroup for Catholics, we all live according to our own conscience. And if the Pope is against both birth control and abortion, what's a woman to do except break the rules once in while? Thank GOD, Obama is above all this nonsense.
After all, as seen above, His Holiness does support pro-choice politicians. I think it would be profitable to meme-push the noncatholic evangelical backing of this astroturfing.
All right, I don't watch Faux Noise, and now I know why. "Fair and Balanced" my arse! That interviewer was about as lame as I've seen in a while.
The Church of the Poison Mind?
Watch it...you'll have the anti-gay crowd after you now. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppu_w09Xm9U
We promise not to burn "All" the books, just the other guy's. I see a new tax source in our future, that is unless they go bankrupt. Fox spews... A portal between heaven and earth. (Where You Decide®) :-P
http://www.amazon.com/religions-man-Huston-Pe...
This is where I learned about religion. The Religions of Man, by Huston. It is a great primer that covers the major religions of man.
If you want a more contemporary study of religion, watch South Park. They have an episode for Mormons, edit Scientologists, Jews, Catholics (am I forgetting anyone?) and even one on Atheism that stars Richard Dawkins.
Very informative and accurate information.
what about Islam?
Was that Saddam in bed with Satan as his gay lover? Or was there one that was a little more specific about Islam?
There was the show where they made fun of Osama bin Laden's EXTREMELY small penis.
And Mohammed has appeared on the show. You know how some Muslim fundies feel about things like that.
Thanks Burton I'll look it up.
Don't want to miss any of their religious episodes. they had one on the financial crisis a few weeks ago called "margaritaville", .
And on another note...
Your God is imaginary...
....proving his omnipotence; his ability to control our imagination.
Care to continue this debate or do you surrender, non-believer?
Who are you giving credit, for controlling (imagination)?
RE: "proving his omnipotence; his ability to control our imagination."
God. I meant it tongue and cheek TC. My religious beliefs are all over the place and very insincere. I was just joking with merkin.
I offended one visitor above with my remarks earlier. I'm not even sure if she will come back to this site. I will now cease and desist.
RE: "omnipotence"
PS. God was not "omnipotent" remember? He was not able too "repel" (chariots of iron)
Omnimpotence: the condition of a superpower that is helpless against lightly armed terrorist and guerrilla groups.
Limpotence.
...a catholic. I just listened to the blond bitch from fox with her lame shill to represent this HUGE group of 100+or- group of Catholic nut cakes from ND. I'm guessing that they are ALL repugs, and probably most not even Catholic.
They shame their school, and I am ashamed of these 15+or- cardinals that voice any opposition to President Obama's appearance at ND. Puppets of the far right loon org.
Looks hard enough they can find a bishop that opposes an African- American being president. A cardinal or bishop don't speak for Catholics as a whole. If BISHOPS and CARDINALS would have been doing their real jobs the Catholic religion would not have never gone through the whole priest misconduct scandal. Right now they don't carry much credibility.
child molestation or a bishop who wants to excommunicate politicians?
just asking.
Should also point out that Sarkozy is -- shock! -- divorced.
If he deserves some Vatican medal, Obama should be made a cardinal.
I'd like it if SOMEBODY pointed that fact out. Certainly, Obama has always said that abortions ought to be minimized. And I can GUARANTEE you he NEVER said "I'm all for abortions! Bring 'em on! The more, the better!"
They twist the language to maximize the impact of their propaganda. Which I don't blame them for, but I do blame the people who have a chance to point out the lies hidden in their language.
And its not just pointing out the lies in their language but the effects of their policies. For example that abstinence only sex-ed leads to MORE unwanted pregnancies and abortions.
On the University-politics-hypocrisy front, St Frances University of PA (who pays their instructors less than the tuition of one full-time student) has accepted ROTC on their campus. For anyone who knows who St Frances was or what he stood for, this sounds like an Onion story. Sadly, no.
By going to Notre Dame he is tacitly endorsing the Catholic Church. That is unconstitutional. The President has NO business speaking at any religious institution.
Not that shoving his Christianity in our faces at every opportunity has ever been a problem for him, mind you. It's one of the things I like the least about Obama.
I'm an ex-catholic atheist and have no use for the catholic church. But to suggest that Obama just stop talking to all religious groups is ridiculous. I think the country and the world will be a lot better off when we discard all organized religions and I think it will happen eventually. However, in the mean time we have to acknowledge that religion plays a big part in many people's lives and it is just politically stupid to ignore that. In fact, there are many concepts from Christianity that support a progressive agenda. I'm all for us building bridges with the church when possible and recognizing that helping the poor, preserving life, etc. are common ground for both truly religous and secular people. The alternative is to abandon the faith based community to the hypocrites on the right which will bring us more Bush and Reagans.
Politics before principle, eh?
I think its an oversimplification to see it as politics or principle. For one thing even though I'm a hard core atheist another core principle of mine is to be open minded and to convince people by reason. You can't reason with people if you don't talk to them. Also, politics is all about compromise and forming coalitions. To refuse to recognize that because you want to remain pure to your principles seems foolish to me in the extreme. Its the kind of thinking and that has the left waste their resources on things like Nader's pointless presidential campaigns. The fact is that things such as peace, healthcare, justice are consistent with the principles of most humanists and religious people. I want the left to keep on winning and to make REAL changes, not to win debating points or to be true to some abstract principle while more of our country is squandered on wars and greed.
talk to the Catholics all he wants. I just think it is wrong for him to do it at a Catholic institution. When Obama does that, on top of all his other religious posturing and pandering, he is sending me a very clear message that I am not part of his America and that he does not take the separation of church and state seriously.
Also, you cannot have a truly 21st cent. agenda while trying to build bridges to people whose minds are stuck in the 9th.
"he can talk to the Catholics all he wants...Also, you cannot have a truly 21st cent. agenda while trying to build bridges to people whose minds are stuck in the 9th."
So which is it? Can he really talk to the catholics or are they just too 9th century?
I also don't see how simply talking at Notre Dame is somehow violating separation of church and state. He is not passing any laws that make catholocism or christianity a supported religion. I think the religious fundamentalists are deluded when they talk about how this country was founded as a "christian nation" but it is equally deluded to deny that religion has played a major part in our history. I believe all the original major universities were founded in conjunction with some church. Presidents have been speaking at religious institutions since Washington.
I guess I should have been more specific in differentiating between Catholics and the Catholic hierarchy, the actual power in the Church.
And, yes, presidents have been speaking at religious institutions since the beginning, and it should stop. It is an endorsement of that religion, and Obama is far too into endorsing Christianity as it is.
He's far too "faith based".
I would wholeheartedly agree with you if...
"The Bridges you speak of" were built/financed fairly. I should not be forced too support somebodies spiritual convictions while at the same time disregarding all individuals beliefs.
It's gotta be a two way street and often it's just one. It should be kept separate from politics and our forefathers knew it. Just my brief opinion.
"I should not be forced too support somebodies spiritual convictions while at the same time disregarding all individuals beliefs."
I didn't mean to imply that you should. I completely agree that this country has made a major mistake in turning away from our secular heritage and that separation of church and state should be one of the most valued ideals for our government (e.g. see my comment below on JFK). If we disagree at all I think it is more on tactics than on principles. I'm not all that bothered by Obama's religiosity, for one thing because I think it at least is honest and sincere with him and not hypocrisy as with so many others. For another given all the other problems he has to deal with and the importance of building a coalition to be able to restore the economy, do something about climate change, restore our infrastructure, get us out of Iraq, ... I'm willing to put up with a little bible thumping right now.
since the 60's. I've been reading up on JFK's campaign. He was the first catholic president. One of the issues that he had to overcome was the idea that the Pope or the Catholic hierarchy might influence his decisions as president. It would have been unthinkable for the right wing to apply this kind of church based pressure back then.
Every Sperm is Sacred, run time,(04:10)
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8 ]
big boppa beat you to it above tc
has to be one of the most commonly linked videos on C&L.
I must have been thinking with my other head at the time? :-P
The Vatican Rag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f72CTDe4-0
Hey, someone had to do it.
too bad we don't have someone like him around these days.
Go hang out at UC Santa Cruz, and you might run into him.
I'm so sick of these religious assholes who feel that if you don't support their hate of women or gay people that you don't meet their standards - Until the Church puts policy in place to protect children against their preasts I don't want to hear anything from these assholes! - Oh I just hate these church people!
I typically go to this website. It has great information but why does the link to sarkozy not show that he is pro choice? This could have not been a mistake on mattzie's part. Can anyone find a valid website to show that Sarkozy is pro choice. I have found websites that show he is pro life. Take a look and double check the info that this website gives us.
It could be because it's a moot point... or at least until he gets pregnant.? :-P
...of a slanted interview.
She clearly was setting it up for Matzzie to fail, only she hadn't counted on the ineptitude of the other "Tom."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY
The Catholic hierarchy has absolutely no credibility. They're nothing but filthy hypoctites who haved turned a blind eye to countless scandals and countless atrocities.
she can "truly" have blond hair one day? :-P
Right. Because it's shocking (shocking!) that President Sarkozy's record on life issues and the Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano would not elicit the same attention and reaction in the United States as a story involving President Obama and the University of Notre Dame.
I'd bet that even Tom Matzzie didn't know about the Sarkozy award when it happened in December 2007. And that fellow he was locking horns with on TV was from a group whose focus is U.S. Catholic colleges and universities. I'm sure honorifics involving foreign heads of state and Italian basilicas are right up at the top of their agenda, just like the announcement of Sarkozy's award was picked up on page one of the Chicago Tribune.
Did they ask Bush to speak? The man responsible for how many deaths of our young men and women and how many more Iraqis?
Oh well, someone ought to shine green lights on the Golden Dome.
Not only is he pro-abortion, but he is also anti-pedophile! That just ain't Catholic, ya know?
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